Discussion: Gay Rights II

[spideyboy_1111]

I think there is a fear that if you have to justify your case you 'weaken' it because it's supposed to be self-evident.

Marriage is a contract where two people become one person in a number of legal meanings of the law. It grants each spouse joint rights over property and offspring.

That's basically it. Everything else is just a religious blessing ceremony. Except that, over time the church took the position that their blessing was the authorization of a wedding. In short, they took the position that they had to power to decide who could or could not marry.

the thing is, before Christianity and the church, there were still weddings. so the notion that it started that way is completely false.

[Anita18]

I dunno...I say it'd be fair for Gays to pay half of taxes if that's the deal the U.S. government wants to make. Seems fair...they pay less taxes since clearly...they're seens as less than an American citizen.

Course...if that was the deal on the table, we all know it's be green lit immediately...
Melissa Ethridge suggested that gays like her and Ellen DeGeneres should stop giving CA money in taxes, since they're second-class citizens. :woot:

^agree, Brokeback was really boring. With all the hype about it being about gay cowboys, I was hoping to see more cowboy love.
It was very slow-paced, but it wasn't really a love story, it was more like a quiet drama. The "lovey dovey" scenes probably counted for less than 5 or 10 minutes out of the whole thing. To me, it wasn't really about gay cowboys at all, but an observation of what happens to someone if they try to bottle up what they really want and who they really are.

[Anita18]

I dunno...I say it'd be fair for Gays to pay half of taxes if that's the deal the U.S. government wants to make. Seems fair...they pay less taxes since clearly...they're seens as less than an American citizen.

Course...if that was the deal on the table, we all know it's be green lit immediately...
Melissa Ethridge suggested that gays like her and Ellen DeGeneres should stop giving CA money in taxes, since they're second-class citizens. :woot:

^agree, Brokeback was really boring. With all the hype about it being about gay cowboys, I was hoping to see more cowboy love.
It was very slow-paced, but it wasn't really a love story, it was more like a quiet drama. The "lovey dovey" scenes probably counted for less than 5 or 10 minutes out of the whole thing. To me, it wasn't really about gay cowboys at all, but an observation of what happens to someone if they try to bottle up what they really want and who they really are.

[Anita18]

I dunno...I say it'd be fair for Gays to pay half of taxes if that's the deal the U.S. government wants to make. Seems fair...they pay less taxes since clearly...they're seens as less than an American citizen.

Course...if that was the deal on the table, we all know it's be green lit immediately...
Melissa Ethridge suggested that gays like her and Ellen DeGeneres should stop giving CA money in taxes, since they're second-class citizens. :woot:

^agree, Brokeback was really boring. With all the hype about it being about gay cowboys, I was hoping to see more cowboy love.
It was very slow-paced, but it wasn't really a love story, it was more like a quiet drama. The "lovey dovey" scenes probably counted for less than 5 or 10 minutes out of the whole thing. To me, it wasn't really about gay cowboys at all, but an observation of what happens to someone if they try to bottle up what they really want and who they really are.

[spideyboy_1111]

I thought Phoenix was the San Francisco of the Southwest :huh:

theres more lesbians in phoenix then gay guys, from what i've seen

[spideyboy_1111]

I thought Phoenix was the San Francisco of the Southwest :huh:

theres more lesbians in phoenix then gay guys, from what i've seen

[spideyboy_1111]

I thought Phoenix was the San Francisco of the Southwest :huh:

theres more lesbians in phoenix then gay guys, from what i've seen

[spideyboy_1111]

I've never seen it, actually.

Not because it's about Gay Cowboys.

Just never had the chance to see it. Never even caught it on cable.

I just heard it was a basic story of forbidden love. With, of course, the biggest deal being that it's between two men instead. I did, and still do, continue to hear great things about Heath's perfromance.

it was a great movie, and i think personally impacted the world the most. Which is why it's still ranked as the best gay movie of all time. It was the first main stream film that focused on nothing but 2 men in love.

[spideyboy_1111]

I've never seen it, actually.

Not because it's about Gay Cowboys.

Just never had the chance to see it. Never even caught it on cable.

I just heard it was a basic story of forbidden love. With, of course, the biggest deal being that it's between two men instead. I did, and still do, continue to hear great things about Heath's perfromance.

it was a great movie, and i think personally impacted the world the most. Which is why it's still ranked as the best gay movie of all time. It was the first main stream film that focused on nothing but 2 men in love.

[spideyboy_1111]

I've never seen it, actually.

Not because it's about Gay Cowboys.

Just never had the chance to see it. Never even caught it on cable.

I just heard it was a basic story of forbidden love. With, of course, the biggest deal being that it's between two men instead. I did, and still do, continue to hear great things about Heath's perfromance.

it was a great movie, and i think personally impacted the world the most. Which is why it's still ranked as the best gay movie of all time. It was the first main stream film that focused on nothing but 2 men in love.

[spideyboy_1111]

Some of those signs sounds like truth to me.

The problem, is ultimately the Bible. Because people ultimately take the good book to be the be all, end all for everyone...even if they're not "in" the religion.

It shouldn't be up to vote, though.

well the thing that pisses me off are those who "pick and choose" from the bible. In the same exact section where it speaks of a man lying with another man, it mentions how it's a sin to eat shrimp and pork... well guess what, those who are using there book as an excuse to hate us better not have there lips touching any of those meals either :o They also better acknowledge that there walking into a place of sin every Sunday morning considering Jesus specifically says he didn't want buildings built in his name. :whatever:

[spideyboy_1111]

Some of those signs sounds like truth to me.

The problem, is ultimately the Bible. Because people ultimately take the good book to be the be all, end all for everyone...even if they're not "in" the religion.

It shouldn't be up to vote, though.

well the thing that pisses me off are those who "pick and choose" from the bible. In the same exact section where it speaks of a man lying with another man, it mentions how it's a sin to eat shrimp and pork... well guess what, those who are using there book as an excuse to hate us better not have there lips touching any of those meals either :o They also better acknowledge that there walking into a place of sin every Sunday morning considering Jesus specifically says he didn't want buildings built in his name. :whatever:

[spideyboy_1111]

Some of those signs sounds like truth to me.

The problem, is ultimately the Bible. Because people ultimately take the good book to be the be all, end all for everyone...even if they're not "in" the religion.

It shouldn't be up to vote, though.

well the thing that pisses me off are those who "pick and choose" from the bible. In the same exact section where it speaks of a man lying with another man, it mentions how it's a sin to eat shrimp and pork... well guess what, those who are using there book as an excuse to hate us better not have there lips touching any of those meals either :o They also better acknowledge that there walking into a place of sin every Sunday morning considering Jesus specifically says he didn't want buildings built in his name. :whatever:

[Motown Marvel]

but man o man am i happy.. i totally have the hippie in me coming

i hope you made the hippie wear a condom...they get around.

[Motown Marvel]

but man o man am i happy.. i totally have the hippie in me coming

i hope you made the hippie wear a condom...they get around.

[Motown Marvel]

but man o man am i happy.. i totally have the hippie in me coming

i hope you made the hippie wear a condom...they get around.

[BlackLantern]

speaking of Brokeback, there is a deleted scene on the 'Knocked Up' dvd where Jonah Hill goes on a rant about the lack of oral in Brokeback Mountain...it's quite funny

[BlackLantern]

speaking of Brokeback, there is a deleted scene on the 'Knocked Up' dvd where Jonah Hill goes on a rant about the lack of oral in Brokeback Mountain...it's quite funny

[BlackLantern]

speaking of Brokeback, there is a deleted scene on the 'Knocked Up' dvd where Jonah Hill goes on a rant about the lack of oral in Brokeback Mountain...it's quite funny

[spideyboy_1111]

There hasn't been much coverage here in the northeast....at least on none of the local news here

local news even here varies. try watching CNN ;)

[spideyboy_1111]

There hasn't been much coverage here in the northeast....at least on none of the local news here

local news even here varies. try watching CNN ;)

[spideyboy_1111]

There hasn't been much coverage here in the northeast....at least on none of the local news here

local news even here varies. try watching CNN ;)

[spideyboy_1111]

i hope you made the hippie wear a condom...they get around.

haha gross

[spideyboy_1111]

i hope you made the hippie wear a condom...they get around.

haha gross

[spideyboy_1111]

i hope you made the hippie wear a condom...they get around.

haha gross

[spideyboy_1111]

speaking of Brokeback, there is a deleted scene on the 'Knocked Up' dvd where Jonah Hill goes on a rant about the lack of oral in Brokeback Mountain...it's quite funny

tiz true.... never thought of that before.

[spideyboy_1111]

speaking of Brokeback, there is a deleted scene on the 'Knocked Up' dvd where Jonah Hill goes on a rant about the lack of oral in Brokeback Mountain...it's quite funny

tiz true.... never thought of that before.

[spideyboy_1111]

speaking of Brokeback, there is a deleted scene on the 'Knocked Up' dvd where Jonah Hill goes on a rant about the lack of oral in Brokeback Mountain...it's quite funny

tiz true.... never thought of that before.

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm trying to find as much news information as i can to see what celebs have joined arm in arm with us at the protests.. so far i have seen/read about...

Janice Dickenson
Rose McGowan
Lance Bass
Wanda Sykes
James Franco
Zachary Quinto

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm trying to find as much news information as i can to see what celebs have joined arm in arm with us at the protests.. so far i have seen/read about...

Janice Dickenson
Rose McGowan
Lance Bass
Wanda Sykes
James Franco
Zachary Quinto

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm trying to find as much news information as i can to see what celebs have joined arm in arm with us at the protests.. so far i have seen/read about...

Janice Dickenson
Rose McGowan
Lance Bass
Wanda Sykes
James Franco
Zachary Quinto

[spideyboy_1111]

small access hollywood celeb bit
http://www.accesshollywood.com/stars-speak-out-against-prop-8s-passing_video_820501

[spideyboy_1111]

small access hollywood celeb bit
http://www.accesshollywood.com/stars-speak-out-against-prop-8s-passing_video_820501

[spideyboy_1111]

small access hollywood celeb bit
http://www.accesshollywood.com/stars-speak-out-against-prop-8s-passing_video_820501

[The Senator]

I will be protesting on Saturday in front of the DC City Hall... I'm looking forward to it.

[The Senator]

I will be protesting on Saturday in front of the DC City Hall... I'm looking forward to it.

[The Senator]

I will be protesting on Saturday in front of the DC City Hall... I'm looking forward to it.

[Schlosser85]

"Moral indignation is jealousy in a halo."-
H.G. Wells

[Schlosser85]

"Moral indignation is jealousy in a halo."-
H.G. Wells

[Schlosser85]

"Moral indignation is jealousy in a halo."-
H.G. Wells

[Schlosser85]

"Why is that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?"-
Ernest Gaines

"No government has the right to tell its citizens when or whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody."
- Rita Mae Brown

[Schlosser85]

"Why is that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?"-
Ernest Gaines

"No government has the right to tell its citizens when or whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody."
- Rita Mae Brown

[Schlosser85]

"Why is that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?"-
Ernest Gaines

"No government has the right to tell its citizens when or whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody."
- Rita Mae Brown

[Schlosser85]

Homophobes...don't be jealous just because we have the backbone to say we're gay and you don't ;)

[Schlosser85]

Homophobes...don't be jealous just because we have the backbone to say we're gay and you don't ;)

[Schlosser85]

Homophobes...don't be jealous just because we have the backbone to say we're gay and you don't ;)

[spideyboy_1111]

I will be protesting on Saturday in front of the DC City Hall... I'm looking forward to it.

awesome :D that will be great. Please tell us all about it :D

[spideyboy_1111]

I will be protesting on Saturday in front of the DC City Hall... I'm looking forward to it.

awesome :D that will be great. Please tell us all about it :D

[spideyboy_1111]

I will be protesting on Saturday in front of the DC City Hall... I'm looking forward to it.

awesome :D that will be great. Please tell us all about it :D

[Franklin Richards]

As an atheist, I say the same thing about agnostics.


Get some balls and just admit it. :D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Franklin Richards]

As an atheist, I say the same thing about agnostics.


Get some balls and just admit it. :D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Franklin Richards]

As an atheist, I say the same thing about agnostics.


Get some balls and just admit it. :D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Backdrifter]

Because religion has taught so many Americans that they have the right to assassinate the character and integrity of so many people simply because they do not live the lifestyle they themselves approve of.

I think it is important to note that I do not live in California, I never voted for or against that proposition.

Now, I am only going to respond to the above quote because I think this is at the heart of the matter. I am going to respond from the point of view of a Christian from the Reformed tradition.

I partially agree with you that religious people are responsible for a lot of hate a bigotry towards those who are not part of their belief system. Who can deny this? But, I do not think it is entirely fair to make the claim that religion, specifically Christianity teaches this. If we look at the world in which Jesus lived and taught in he was in direct opposition to the kind of people that you are describing: self-righteous legalists. There is one scene in New Testament in which Jesus is eating dinner with a group sinners (tax collectors, prostitutes, etc) Along come some of the self-righteous, legalists that we are all so familiar with and they start questioning why Jesus is hanging out with such shady types. Jesus responds to them by saying ""Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." This is a fundamental truth of the Gospel message. Jesus was interested in saving the lost, the broken, the poor, the weak and the forgotten. Later on, Jesus warns his discples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. Leaven is yeast. When making a loave of bread, all that is need is just a little bit of yeast which is worked through out the entire loaf, causing it to rise. The "leaven" of the Pharisees is hypocrisy. Jesus describes them as putting themselves on public display as righteous individuals, but on the inside they are dead in their own sin and full of hypocrisy. This would have been extremely offensive to the religious leaders of the day.

So, by taking a good look at the teachings of Jesus, I think it becomes very clear that Christianty does not endorse, encourage or allow for what you are describing. In fact, there are several direct warnings about this very kind of behaviour.

I will say what I said before. The problem is not religoin. The problem is people. People are self-centered, prideful, ignorant, jealous, idoloters. A true believer and follower of Jesus will be the first to admit this and never claim to be any better than anyone else.

Another example is communism. Follow me on this one for just a second. Communism, in theory is a great idea. Every one is equal, everyone gets to eat, everyone gets access to healthcare, etc. But, communism, historically, always turns into an oppresive state that exploits its citizens, and props up just a few select people on the shoulders of the masses who are reduced to poverty. The state controls everything. There is no voice of dissent, because freedom of speech is removed. The state simply exists to perpetuate itself. The problem is not communism, the problem is people.

While I don't agree with homosexuality and I believe it to be immoral, I have several friends who are gay. Do I ignore them or scoff at them because of their lifesyle? Absolutley not. In fact, I have experienced a lot of mocking of my own beliefs from them. We all practice hypocrisy on some level. I think the real solution here is humility.

[Backdrifter]

Because religion has taught so many Americans that they have the right to assassinate the character and integrity of so many people simply because they do not live the lifestyle they themselves approve of.

I think it is important to note that I do not live in California, I never voted for or against that proposition.

Now, I am only going to respond to the above quote because I think this is at the heart of the matter. I am going to respond from the point of view of a Christian from the Reformed tradition.

I partially agree with you that religious people are responsible for a lot of hate a bigotry towards those who are not part of their belief system. Who can deny this? But, I do not think it is entirely fair to make the claim that religion, specifically Christianity teaches this. If we look at the world in which Jesus lived and taught in he was in direct opposition to the kind of people that you are describing: self-righteous legalists. There is one scene in New Testament in which Jesus is eating dinner with a group sinners (tax collectors, prostitutes, etc) Along come some of the self-righteous, legalists that we are all so familiar with and they start questioning why Jesus is hanging out with such shady types. Jesus responds to them by saying ""Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." This is a fundamental truth of the Gospel message. Jesus was interested in saving the lost, the broken, the poor, the weak and the forgotten. Later on, Jesus warns his discples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. Leaven is yeast. When making a loave of bread, all that is need is just a little bit of yeast which is worked through out the entire loaf, causing it to rise. The "leaven" of the Pharisees is hypocrisy. Jesus describes them as putting themselves on public display as righteous individuals, but on the inside they are dead in their own sin and full of hypocrisy. This would have been extremely offensive to the religious leaders of the day.

So, by taking a good look at the teachings of Jesus, I think it becomes very clear that Christianty does not endorse, encourage or allow for what you are describing. In fact, there are several direct warnings about this very kind of behaviour.

I will say what I said before. The problem is not religoin. The problem is people. People are self-centered, prideful, ignorant, jealous, idoloters. A true believer and follower of Jesus will be the first to admit this and never claim to be any better than anyone else.

Another example is communism. Follow me on this one for just a second. Communism, in theory is a great idea. Every one is equal, everyone gets to eat, everyone gets access to healthcare, etc. But, communism, historically, always turns into an oppresive state that exploits its citizens, and props up just a few select people on the shoulders of the masses who are reduced to poverty. The state controls everything. There is no voice of dissent, because freedom of speech is removed. The state simply exists to perpetuate itself. The problem is not communism, the problem is people.

While I don't agree with homosexuality and I believe it to be immoral, I have several friends who are gay. Do I ignore them or scoff at them because of their lifesyle? Absolutley not. In fact, I have experienced a lot of mocking of my own beliefs from them. We all practice hypocrisy on some level. I think the real solution here is humility.

[Backdrifter]

Because religion has taught so many Americans that they have the right to assassinate the character and integrity of so many people simply because they do not live the lifestyle they themselves approve of.

I think it is important to note that I do not live in California, I never voted for or against that proposition.

Now, I am only going to respond to the above quote because I think this is at the heart of the matter. I am going to respond from the point of view of a Christian from the Reformed tradition.

I partially agree with you that religious people are responsible for a lot of hate a bigotry towards those who are not part of their belief system. Who can deny this? But, I do not think it is entirely fair to make the claim that religion, specifically Christianity teaches this. If we look at the world in which Jesus lived and taught in he was in direct opposition to the kind of people that you are describing: self-righteous legalists. There is one scene in New Testament in which Jesus is eating dinner with a group sinners (tax collectors, prostitutes, etc) Along come some of the self-righteous, legalists that we are all so familiar with and they start questioning why Jesus is hanging out with such shady types. Jesus responds to them by saying ""Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." This is a fundamental truth of the Gospel message. Jesus was interested in saving the lost, the broken, the poor, the weak and the forgotten. Later on, Jesus warns his discples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. Leaven is yeast. When making a loave of bread, all that is need is just a little bit of yeast which is worked through out the entire loaf, causing it to rise. The "leaven" of the Pharisees is hypocrisy. Jesus describes them as putting themselves on public display as righteous individuals, but on the inside they are dead in their own sin and full of hypocrisy. This would have been extremely offensive to the religious leaders of the day.

So, by taking a good look at the teachings of Jesus, I think it becomes very clear that Christianty does not endorse, encourage or allow for what you are describing. In fact, there are several direct warnings about this very kind of behaviour.

I will say what I said before. The problem is not religoin. The problem is people. People are self-centered, prideful, ignorant, jealous, idoloters. A true believer and follower of Jesus will be the first to admit this and never claim to be any better than anyone else.

Another example is communism. Follow me on this one for just a second. Communism, in theory is a great idea. Every one is equal, everyone gets to eat, everyone gets access to healthcare, etc. But, communism, historically, always turns into an oppresive state that exploits its citizens, and props up just a few select people on the shoulders of the masses who are reduced to poverty. The state controls everything. There is no voice of dissent, because freedom of speech is removed. The state simply exists to perpetuate itself. The problem is not communism, the problem is people.

While I don't agree with homosexuality and I believe it to be immoral, I have several friends who are gay. Do I ignore them or scoff at them because of their lifesyle? Absolutley not. In fact, I have experienced a lot of mocking of my own beliefs from them. We all practice hypocrisy on some level. I think the real solution here is humility.

[cerealkiller182]

I think it is important to note that I do not live in California, I never voted for or against that proposition.

Now, I am only going to respond to the above quote because I think this is at the heart of the matter. I am going to respond from the point of view of a Christian from the Reformed tradition.

I partially agree with you that religious people are responsible for a lot of hate a bigotry towards those who are not part of their belief system. Who can deny this? But, I do not think it is entirely fair to make the claim that religion, specifically Christianity teaches this. If we look at the world in which Jesus lived and taught in he was in direct opposition to the kind of people that you are describing: self-righteous legalists. There is one scene in New Testament in which Jesus is eating dinner with a group sinners (tax collectors, prostitutes, etc) Along come some of the self-righteous, legalists that we are all so familiar with and they start questioning why Jesus is hanging out with such shady types. Jesus responds to them by saying ""Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." This is a fundamental truth of the Gospel message. Jesus was interested in saving the lost, the broken, the poor, the weak and the forgotten. Later on, Jesus warns his discples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. Leaven is yeast. When making a loave of bread, all that is need is just a little bit of yeast which is worked through out the entire loaf, causing it to rise. The "leaven" of the Pharisees is hypocrisy. Jesus describes them as putting themselves on public display as righteous individuals, but on the inside they are dead in their own sin and full of hypocrisy. This would have been extremely offensive to the religious leaders of the day.

So, by taking a good look at the teachings of Jesus, I think it becomes very clear that Christianty does not endorse, encourage or allow for what you are describing. In fact, there are several direct warnings about this very kind of behaviour.

I will say what I said before. The problem is not religoin. The problem is people. People are self-centered, prideful, ignorant, jealous, idoloters. A true believer and follower of Jesus will be the first to admit this and never claim to be any better than anyone else.

Another example is communism. Follow me on this one for just a second. Communism, in theory is a great idea. Every one is equal, everyone gets to eat, everyone gets access to healthcare, etc. But, communism, historically, always turns into an oppresive state that exploits its citizens, and props up just a few select people on the shoulders of the masses who are reduced to poverty. The state controls everything. There is no voice of dissent, because freedom of speech is removed. The state simply exists to perpetuate itself. The problem is not communism, the problem is people.

While I don't agree with homosexuality and I believe it to be immoral, I have several friends who are gay. Do I ignore them or scoff at them because of their lifesyle? Absolutley not. In fact, I have experienced a lot of mocking of my own beliefs from them. We all practice hypocrisy on some level. I think the real solution here is humility.

Jesus clothed the naked, healed the sick, fed the hungry.

If the Christian religion sees homosexuality as immoral (for whatever stupid unfounded reason) that what would Jesus and the "true" followers of Jesus do with a homosexual. "Cure" him/her?

People are discriminating against others and hiding behind the Bible

[cerealkiller182]

I think it is important to note that I do not live in California, I never voted for or against that proposition.

Now, I am only going to respond to the above quote because I think this is at the heart of the matter. I am going to respond from the point of view of a Christian from the Reformed tradition.

I partially agree with you that religious people are responsible for a lot of hate a bigotry towards those who are not part of their belief system. Who can deny this? But, I do not think it is entirely fair to make the claim that religion, specifically Christianity teaches this. If we look at the world in which Jesus lived and taught in he was in direct opposition to the kind of people that you are describing: self-righteous legalists. There is one scene in New Testament in which Jesus is eating dinner with a group sinners (tax collectors, prostitutes, etc) Along come some of the self-righteous, legalists that we are all so familiar with and they start questioning why Jesus is hanging out with such shady types. Jesus responds to them by saying ""Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." This is a fundamental truth of the Gospel message. Jesus was interested in saving the lost, the broken, the poor, the weak and the forgotten. Later on, Jesus warns his discples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. Leaven is yeast. When making a loave of bread, all that is need is just a little bit of yeast which is worked through out the entire loaf, causing it to rise. The "leaven" of the Pharisees is hypocrisy. Jesus describes them as putting themselves on public display as righteous individuals, but on the inside they are dead in their own sin and full of hypocrisy. This would have been extremely offensive to the religious leaders of the day.

So, by taking a good look at the teachings of Jesus, I think it becomes very clear that Christianty does not endorse, encourage or allow for what you are describing. In fact, there are several direct warnings about this very kind of behaviour.

I will say what I said before. The problem is not religoin. The problem is people. People are self-centered, prideful, ignorant, jealous, idoloters. A true believer and follower of Jesus will be the first to admit this and never claim to be any better than anyone else.

Another example is communism. Follow me on this one for just a second. Communism, in theory is a great idea. Every one is equal, everyone gets to eat, everyone gets access to healthcare, etc. But, communism, historically, always turns into an oppresive state that exploits its citizens, and props up just a few select people on the shoulders of the masses who are reduced to poverty. The state controls everything. There is no voice of dissent, because freedom of speech is removed. The state simply exists to perpetuate itself. The problem is not communism, the problem is people.

While I don't agree with homosexuality and I believe it to be immoral, I have several friends who are gay. Do I ignore them or scoff at them because of their lifesyle? Absolutley not. In fact, I have experienced a lot of mocking of my own beliefs from them. We all practice hypocrisy on some level. I think the real solution here is humility.

Jesus clothed the naked, healed the sick, fed the hungry.

If the Christian religion sees homosexuality as immoral (for whatever stupid unfounded reason) that what would Jesus and the "true" followers of Jesus do with a homosexual. "Cure" him/her?

People are discriminating against others and hiding behind the Bible

[cerealkiller182]

I think it is important to note that I do not live in California, I never voted for or against that proposition.

Now, I am only going to respond to the above quote because I think this is at the heart of the matter. I am going to respond from the point of view of a Christian from the Reformed tradition.

I partially agree with you that religious people are responsible for a lot of hate a bigotry towards those who are not part of their belief system. Who can deny this? But, I do not think it is entirely fair to make the claim that religion, specifically Christianity teaches this. If we look at the world in which Jesus lived and taught in he was in direct opposition to the kind of people that you are describing: self-righteous legalists. There is one scene in New Testament in which Jesus is eating dinner with a group sinners (tax collectors, prostitutes, etc) Along come some of the self-righteous, legalists that we are all so familiar with and they start questioning why Jesus is hanging out with such shady types. Jesus responds to them by saying ""Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." This is a fundamental truth of the Gospel message. Jesus was interested in saving the lost, the broken, the poor, the weak and the forgotten. Later on, Jesus warns his discples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. Leaven is yeast. When making a loave of bread, all that is need is just a little bit of yeast which is worked through out the entire loaf, causing it to rise. The "leaven" of the Pharisees is hypocrisy. Jesus describes them as putting themselves on public display as righteous individuals, but on the inside they are dead in their own sin and full of hypocrisy. This would have been extremely offensive to the religious leaders of the day.

So, by taking a good look at the teachings of Jesus, I think it becomes very clear that Christianty does not endorse, encourage or allow for what you are describing. In fact, there are several direct warnings about this very kind of behaviour.

I will say what I said before. The problem is not religoin. The problem is people. People are self-centered, prideful, ignorant, jealous, idoloters. A true believer and follower of Jesus will be the first to admit this and never claim to be any better than anyone else.

Another example is communism. Follow me on this one for just a second. Communism, in theory is a great idea. Every one is equal, everyone gets to eat, everyone gets access to healthcare, etc. But, communism, historically, always turns into an oppresive state that exploits its citizens, and props up just a few select people on the shoulders of the masses who are reduced to poverty. The state controls everything. There is no voice of dissent, because freedom of speech is removed. The state simply exists to perpetuate itself. The problem is not communism, the problem is people.

While I don't agree with homosexuality and I believe it to be immoral, I have several friends who are gay. Do I ignore them or scoff at them because of their lifesyle? Absolutley not. In fact, I have experienced a lot of mocking of my own beliefs from them. We all practice hypocrisy on some level. I think the real solution here is humility.

Jesus clothed the naked, healed the sick, fed the hungry.

If the Christian religion sees homosexuality as immoral (for whatever stupid unfounded reason) that what would Jesus and the "true" followers of Jesus do with a homosexual. "Cure" him/her?

People are discriminating against others and hiding behind the Bible

[The Senator]

Well, then Christians ought to practice a little humility of their own and stop trying to pry the gospel into the lives of those who obviously do not live by the six verses they claim are against homosexuality. And while your religion may not encourage such behavior, the numerous churches and religious organizations which contributed to this proposition's passage shows otherwise. Comparing homosexuality to bestiality is disgusting, and I have zero respect for any ignoramus who is willing to draw the comparison-- especially when an organization which condoned polygamy less than a hundred years ago is the main offender here.

I saw no humility in the passage of this proposition. All I saw were shallow, discriminatory people who hold their religion higher than the compassion they ought to show for their fellow men. And that compassion does not lie in FORCING your beliefs on people, which was so blatantly done the other day.

[The Senator]

Well, then Christians ought to practice a little humility of their own and stop trying to pry the gospel into the lives of those who obviously do not live by the six verses they claim are against homosexuality. And while your religion may not encourage such behavior, the numerous churches and religious organizations which contributed to this proposition's passage shows otherwise. Comparing homosexuality to bestiality is disgusting, and I have zero respect for any ignoramus who is willing to draw the comparison-- especially when an organization which condoned polygamy less than a hundred years ago is the main offender here.

I saw no humility in the passage of this proposition. All I saw were shallow, discriminatory people who hold their religion higher than the compassion they ought to show for their fellow men. And that compassion does not lie in FORCING your beliefs on people, which was so blatantly done the other day.

[The Senator]

Well, then Christians ought to practice a little humility of their own and stop trying to pry the gospel into the lives of those who obviously do not live by the six verses they claim are against homosexuality. And while your religion may not encourage such behavior, the numerous churches and religious organizations which contributed to this proposition's passage shows otherwise. Comparing homosexuality to bestiality is disgusting, and I have zero respect for any ignoramus who is willing to draw the comparison-- especially when an organization which condoned polygamy less than a hundred years ago is the main offender here.

I saw no humility in the passage of this proposition. All I saw were shallow, discriminatory people who hold their religion higher than the compassion they ought to show for their fellow men. And that compassion does not lie in FORCING your beliefs on people, which was so blatantly done the other day.

[ShadowBoxing]

And why is this? Because religion has taught so many Americans that they have the right to assassinate the character and integrity of so many people simply because they do not live the lifestyle they themselves approve of. We can thank the Mormon church especially for this bigotry.

Yet Religion is often at war with itself over this fact. I have a co-worker, who I feel is smart but lacks basic common sense, and is an Evangelical. I forget exactly how this came up, but I remember it had something to do with Christian bands, either way, he said he had just attended a youth meeting where the minister had basically done a sermon about doing away with the word "Christian" because so many "fake-Christians" were using it. From my many conversations I could only imagine who feel into the latter category.

In the fast-paced lifestyle of Americans I find this man, Kurt, to fall into these belief systems of convenience. I don't really find religion all that troublesome, especially since I see it as the most powerful force from bringing unity and human rights in the world. As a advocate for minorities, I always kept coming back to how religion was used to lift them up out of oppression.

I feel like there are two types of beliefs: ones you fight for and struggle with, and ones that are handed to you. For example, I often struggle with my American-ness in the face of the atrocities done in the name of freedom and justice, yet for some Americans it's as if they are in massive denial about them. For those Americans, who developed their American patriotism probably from watching too many Eighties action films, it's easy for them to be manipulated into believing many, many things that just aren't true when someone uses patriotism as a justification for it. Those people will always exist, whether it's because they are opinionated, stupid or just don't care.

Religion isn't much different. Because of the vast swath of people it attracts it's going to have people who struggle with faith like Mother Thearesa and people who simply use it for their own personal gratification, like Fred Phelps. You have to make differentiations within religion, just as you have to in any belief structure, and I, like Socrates, don't believe in taking the worst example of something as the standard. I'd rather make the standard a healthy body, rather than one that is perverted.

Furthermore, I feel more and more that homosexuals will one day turn to religion to lift themselves up. Using the master's tools to dismantle the masters house is ultimately what lifts minorities out of oppression. That is why religion is such a force of good, because when used by the "unwashed masses" it can be used to sway the elites. It leads to a organization of thoughts and ideals, and creates a singular purpose and destiny. It's that shared destiny that unites Civil Right's movements, and while it doesn't have to be Christianity, it certainly needs to be some shared experience. If you don't have that, you have nothing.

[ShadowBoxing]

And why is this? Because religion has taught so many Americans that they have the right to assassinate the character and integrity of so many people simply because they do not live the lifestyle they themselves approve of. We can thank the Mormon church especially for this bigotry.

Yet Religion is often at war with itself over this fact. I have a co-worker, who I feel is smart but lacks basic common sense, and is an Evangelical. I forget exactly how this came up, but I remember it had something to do with Christian bands, either way, he said he had just attended a youth meeting where the minister had basically done a sermon about doing away with the word "Christian" because so many "fake-Christians" were using it. From my many conversations I could only imagine who feel into the latter category.

In the fast-paced lifestyle of Americans I find this man, Kurt, to fall into these belief systems of convenience. I don't really find religion all that troublesome, especially since I see it as the most powerful force from bringing unity and human rights in the world. As a advocate for minorities, I always kept coming back to how religion was used to lift them up out of oppression.

I feel like there are two types of beliefs: ones you fight for and struggle with, and ones that are handed to you. For example, I often struggle with my American-ness in the face of the atrocities done in the name of freedom and justice, yet for some Americans it's as if they are in massive denial about them. For those Americans, who developed their American patriotism probably from watching too many Eighties action films, it's easy for them to be manipulated into believing many, many things that just aren't true when someone uses patriotism as a justification for it. Those people will always exist, whether it's because they are opinionated, stupid or just don't care.

Religion isn't much different. Because of the vast swath of people it attracts it's going to have people who struggle with faith like Mother Thearesa and people who simply use it for their own personal gratification, like Fred Phelps. You have to make differentiations within religion, just as you have to in any belief structure, and I, like Socrates, don't believe in taking the worst example of something as the standard. I'd rather make the standard a healthy body, rather than one that is perverted.

Furthermore, I feel more and more that homosexuals will one day turn to religion to lift themselves up. Using the master's tools to dismantle the masters house is ultimately what lifts minorities out of oppression. That is why religion is such a force of good, because when used by the "unwashed masses" it can be used to sway the elites. It leads to a organization of thoughts and ideals, and creates a singular purpose and destiny. It's that shared destiny that unites Civil Right's movements, and while it doesn't have to be Christianity, it certainly needs to be some shared experience. If you don't have that, you have nothing.

[ShadowBoxing]

And why is this? Because religion has taught so many Americans that they have the right to assassinate the character and integrity of so many people simply because they do not live the lifestyle they themselves approve of. We can thank the Mormon church especially for this bigotry.

Yet Religion is often at war with itself over this fact. I have a co-worker, who I feel is smart but lacks basic common sense, and is an Evangelical. I forget exactly how this came up, but I remember it had something to do with Christian bands, either way, he said he had just attended a youth meeting where the minister had basically done a sermon about doing away with the word "Christian" because so many "fake-Christians" were using it. From my many conversations I could only imagine who feel into the latter category.

In the fast-paced lifestyle of Americans I find this man, Kurt, to fall into these belief systems of convenience. I don't really find religion all that troublesome, especially since I see it as the most powerful force from bringing unity and human rights in the world. As a advocate for minorities, I always kept coming back to how religion was used to lift them up out of oppression.

I feel like there are two types of beliefs: ones you fight for and struggle with, and ones that are handed to you. For example, I often struggle with my American-ness in the face of the atrocities done in the name of freedom and justice, yet for some Americans it's as if they are in massive denial about them. For those Americans, who developed their American patriotism probably from watching too many Eighties action films, it's easy for them to be manipulated into believing many, many things that just aren't true when someone uses patriotism as a justification for it. Those people will always exist, whether it's because they are opinionated, stupid or just don't care.

Religion isn't much different. Because of the vast swath of people it attracts it's going to have people who struggle with faith like Mother Thearesa and people who simply use it for their own personal gratification, like Fred Phelps. You have to make differentiations within religion, just as you have to in any belief structure, and I, like Socrates, don't believe in taking the worst example of something as the standard. I'd rather make the standard a healthy body, rather than one that is perverted.

Furthermore, I feel more and more that homosexuals will one day turn to religion to lift themselves up. Using the master's tools to dismantle the masters house is ultimately what lifts minorities out of oppression. That is why religion is such a force of good, because when used by the "unwashed masses" it can be used to sway the elites. It leads to a organization of thoughts and ideals, and creates a singular purpose and destiny. It's that shared destiny that unites Civil Right's movements, and while it doesn't have to be Christianity, it certainly needs to be some shared experience. If you don't have that, you have nothing.

[spideyboy_1111]

Day 1 the Rally in west hollywood
t3orSiG092o
Day 2 the mormon church and west la march
_hiyXTN0xFg
P4m5yUhrXj0
Yvx-AxTTooI
bPAymf9xPMw&feature
1oCB_n4IqZc
Day 4 Silverlake and Hollywood
Warning, this one has some language but it's a very powerful speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKniiwy_MUY
qYi-vp9Fgb8
XeWxZoQcHQ0
gwWZXv1IoEE

[spideyboy_1111]

Day 1 the Rally in west hollywood
t3orSiG092o
Day 2 the mormon church and west la march
_hiyXTN0xFg
P4m5yUhrXj0
Yvx-AxTTooI
bPAymf9xPMw&feature
1oCB_n4IqZc
Day 4 Silverlake and Hollywood
Warning, this one has some language but it's a very powerful speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKniiwy_MUY
qYi-vp9Fgb8
XeWxZoQcHQ0
gwWZXv1IoEE

[spideyboy_1111]

Day 1 the Rally in west hollywood
t3orSiG092o
Day 2 the mormon church and west la march
_hiyXTN0xFg
P4m5yUhrXj0
Yvx-AxTTooI
bPAymf9xPMw&feature
1oCB_n4IqZc
Day 4 Silverlake and Hollywood
Warning, this one has some language but it's a very powerful speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKniiwy_MUY
qYi-vp9Fgb8
XeWxZoQcHQ0
gwWZXv1IoEE

[Backdrifter]

I've said all I can say. I don't think there is much of a point to this thread beyond this.

[Backdrifter]

I've said all I can say. I don't think there is much of a point to this thread beyond this.

[Backdrifter]

I've said all I can say. I don't think there is much of a point to this thread beyond this.

[Backdrifter]

A lot of wisdom in that post Shadow.

[Backdrifter]

A lot of wisdom in that post Shadow.

[Backdrifter]

A lot of wisdom in that post Shadow.

[spideyboy_1111]

I've said all I can say. I don't think there is much of a point to this thread beyond this.

beyond your point of view? i really hope you meant you have no other point to this thread besides the one you offered, because there is quite frankly alot of points to thrive and continue in this thread by everyone else.

[spideyboy_1111]

I've said all I can say. I don't think there is much of a point to this thread beyond this.

beyond your point of view? i really hope you meant you have no other point to this thread besides the one you offered, because there is quite frankly alot of points to thrive and continue in this thread by everyone else.

[spideyboy_1111]

I've said all I can say. I don't think there is much of a point to this thread beyond this.

beyond your point of view? i really hope you meant you have no other point to this thread besides the one you offered, because there is quite frankly alot of points to thrive and continue in this thread by everyone else.

[Motown Marvel]

i havent been keeping up with this stuff to well, but i think its horribly depressing that prop 8 passed and such discrimination is still condoned.

i just recently heard about this turning racial, and i think thats equally horrible. i hope those who are affected by prop 8 know that hate is not the answer to hate. if you believe in the equality and acceptance that you feel deserved, then show that same belief in those you share this world with, no matter who they are, friend or foe. no matter the unjust hate you are burdened by, returning the hate does not solve anything. it merely spreads more hate...and thats the root of this problem to begin with.

i implore anyone who attends these rallies that witnesses race inspired hatred to not let it stand. protest this injustice with positivity and love. because thats what your striving for anyways, you're right to share your love how you see fit.

"in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"
-The Beatles

[Motown Marvel]

i havent been keeping up with this stuff to well, but i think its horribly depressing that prop 8 passed and such discrimination is still condoned.

i just recently heard about this turning racial, and i think thats equally horrible. i hope those who are affected by prop 8 know that hate is not the answer to hate. if you believe in the equality and acceptance that you feel deserved, then show that same belief in those you share this world with, no matter who they are, friend or foe. no matter the unjust hate you are burdened by, returning the hate does not solve anything. it merely spreads more hate...and thats the root of this problem to begin with.

i implore anyone who attends these rallies that witnesses race inspired hatred to not let it stand. protest this injustice with positivity and love. because thats what your striving for anyways, you're right to share your love how you see fit.

"in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"
-The Beatles

[Motown Marvel]

i havent been keeping up with this stuff to well, but i think its horribly depressing that prop 8 passed and such discrimination is still condoned.

i just recently heard about this turning racial, and i think thats equally horrible. i hope those who are affected by prop 8 know that hate is not the answer to hate. if you believe in the equality and acceptance that you feel deserved, then show that same belief in those you share this world with, no matter who they are, friend or foe. no matter the unjust hate you are burdened by, returning the hate does not solve anything. it merely spreads more hate...and thats the root of this problem to begin with.

i implore anyone who attends these rallies that witnesses race inspired hatred to not let it stand. protest this injustice with positivity and love. because thats what your striving for anyways, you're right to share your love how you see fit.

"in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"
-The Beatles

[spideyboy_1111]

i havent been keeping up with this stuff to well, but i think its horribly depressing that prop 8 passed and such discrimination is still condoned.

i just recently heard about this turning racial, and i think thats equally horrible. i hope those who are affected by prop 8 know that hate is not the answer to hate. if you believe in the equality and acceptance that you feel deserved, then show that same belief in those you share this world with, no matter who they are, friend or foe. no matter the unjust hate you are burdened by, returning the hate does not solve anything. it merely spreads more hate...and thats the root of this problem to begin with.

i implore anyone who attends these rallies that witnesses race inspired hatred to not let it stand. protest this injustice with positivity and love. because thats what your striving for anyways, you're right to share your love how you see fit.

"in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"
-The Beatles

I would like to just say ive been at almost EVERY LA rally/protest, and theres been no racial slurs or racial intolerance at all. So i'm not sure where people are getting that. sure we are angry at parts of the black community by seemingly ignored there own past struggles, refusing to relate the with ours, and voting YES on 8... But were definately not mad at the community as a whole and the blacks who are with us would not tolerate that action at all. Now if a black man walks up to us and puts a thumb down or flips us off, they might get a pretty bad reaction (even by there own kind) attacked? no. But he may get called something pretty unfriendly or a big rally of "shame on you" at him, which i believe is ok. If you're going to be an ass, one should expect that reaction.

over all, our protesting has been praised for its peacefulness and that's the message we are trying to get across.

[spideyboy_1111]

i havent been keeping up with this stuff to well, but i think its horribly depressing that prop 8 passed and such discrimination is still condoned.

i just recently heard about this turning racial, and i think thats equally horrible. i hope those who are affected by prop 8 know that hate is not the answer to hate. if you believe in the equality and acceptance that you feel deserved, then show that same belief in those you share this world with, no matter who they are, friend or foe. no matter the unjust hate you are burdened by, returning the hate does not solve anything. it merely spreads more hate...and thats the root of this problem to begin with.

i implore anyone who attends these rallies that witnesses race inspired hatred to not let it stand. protest this injustice with positivity and love. because thats what your striving for anyways, you're right to share your love how you see fit.

"in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"
-The Beatles

I would like to just say ive been at almost EVERY LA rally/protest, and theres been no racial slurs or racial intolerance at all. So i'm not sure where people are getting that. sure we are angry at parts of the black community by seemingly ignored there own past struggles, refusing to relate the with ours, and voting YES on 8... But were definately not mad at the community as a whole and the blacks who are with us would not tolerate that action at all. Now if a black man walks up to us and puts a thumb down or flips us off, they might get a pretty bad reaction (even by there own kind) attacked? no. But he may get called something pretty unfriendly or a big rally of "shame on you" at him, which i believe is ok. If you're going to be an ass, one should expect that reaction.

over all, our protesting has been praised for its peacefulness and that's the message we are trying to get across.

[spideyboy_1111]

i havent been keeping up with this stuff to well, but i think its horribly depressing that prop 8 passed and such discrimination is still condoned.

i just recently heard about this turning racial, and i think thats equally horrible. i hope those who are affected by prop 8 know that hate is not the answer to hate. if you believe in the equality and acceptance that you feel deserved, then show that same belief in those you share this world with, no matter who they are, friend or foe. no matter the unjust hate you are burdened by, returning the hate does not solve anything. it merely spreads more hate...and thats the root of this problem to begin with.

i implore anyone who attends these rallies that witnesses race inspired hatred to not let it stand. protest this injustice with positivity and love. because thats what your striving for anyways, you're right to share your love how you see fit.

"in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"
-The Beatles

I would like to just say ive been at almost EVERY LA rally/protest, and theres been no racial slurs or racial intolerance at all. So i'm not sure where people are getting that. sure we are angry at parts of the black community by seemingly ignored there own past struggles, refusing to relate the with ours, and voting YES on 8... But were definately not mad at the community as a whole and the blacks who are with us would not tolerate that action at all. Now if a black man walks up to us and puts a thumb down or flips us off, they might get a pretty bad reaction (even by there own kind) attacked? no. But he may get called something pretty unfriendly or a big rally of "shame on you" at him, which i believe is ok. If you're going to be an ass, one should expect that reaction.

over all, our protesting has been praised for its peacefulness and that's the message we are trying to get across.

[The Senator]

I've said all I can say. I don't think there is much of a point to this thread beyond this.

Yes, now that Stewie has spoken, we should totally close this thread.

:dry:

[The Senator]

I've said all I can say. I don't think there is much of a point to this thread beyond this.

Yes, now that Stewie has spoken, we should totally close this thread.

:dry:

[The Senator]

I've said all I can say. I don't think there is much of a point to this thread beyond this.

Yes, now that Stewie has spoken, we should totally close this thread.

:dry:

[Motown Marvel]

I would like to just say ive been at almost EVERY LA rally/protest, and theres been no racial slurs or racial intolerance at all. So i'm not sure where people are getting that. sure we are angry at parts of the black community by seemingly ignored there own past struggles, refusing to relate the with ours, and voting YES on 8... But were definately not mad at the community as a whole and the blacks who are with us would not tolerate that action at all. Now if a black man walks up to us and puts a thumb down or flips us off, they might get a pretty bad reaction (even by there own kind) attacked? no. But he may get called something pretty unfriendly or a big rally of "shame on you" at him, which i believe is ok. If you're going to be an ass, one should expect that reaction.

over all, our protesting has been praised for its peacefulness and that's the message we are trying to get across.

im quite certain that most people you've protested with are peaceful, which is fantastic and i commend you for. but if someone calls a black man a n****r because he called him a f****t, thats gonna get lots of attention in the media and it does no one any good. nor is it in any ways justified on any level. it will only spread flames that will divide and can not be controlled and will kill your cause. none of this needs to turn racial in any way. i can only assume that this is happening to some degree because i've seen it reported. and im just saying, that is something that should be avoided at all costs, because it will never be appropriate. so if you see it happen, let that person know, behavior like that is unacceptable and not the message you're trying to spread. and if thats how they're going to act, then they are not welcome to protest at your side.

also, having expectations of the black community simply because of their past plight is an unfair expectation. i totally understand how the situations are damn near similar so it makes sense that they'd be sympathetic..but it doesnt work like that. and having that expectation only sets you up for disappointment, which can easily turn to anger.

[Motown Marvel]

I would like to just say ive been at almost EVERY LA rally/protest, and theres been no racial slurs or racial intolerance at all. So i'm not sure where people are getting that. sure we are angry at parts of the black community by seemingly ignored there own past struggles, refusing to relate the with ours, and voting YES on 8... But were definately not mad at the community as a whole and the blacks who are with us would not tolerate that action at all. Now if a black man walks up to us and puts a thumb down or flips us off, they might get a pretty bad reaction (even by there own kind) attacked? no. But he may get called something pretty unfriendly or a big rally of "shame on you" at him, which i believe is ok. If you're going to be an ass, one should expect that reaction.

over all, our protesting has been praised for its peacefulness and that's the message we are trying to get across.

im quite certain that most people you've protested with are peaceful, which is fantastic and i commend you for. but if someone calls a black man a n****r because he called him a f****t, thats gonna get lots of attention in the media and it does no one any good. nor is it in any ways justified on any level. it will only spread flames that will divide and can not be controlled and will kill your cause. none of this needs to turn racial in any way. i can only assume that this is happening to some degree because i've seen it reported. and im just saying, that is something that should be avoided at all costs, because it will never be appropriate. so if you see it happen, let that person know, behavior like that is unacceptable and not the message you're trying to spread. and if thats how they're going to act, then they are not welcome to protest at your side.

also, having expectations of the black community simply because of their past plight is an unfair expectation. i totally understand how the situations are damn near similar so it makes sense that they'd be sympathetic..but it doesnt work like that. and having that expectation only sets you up for disappointment, which can easily turn to anger.

[Motown Marvel]

I would like to just say ive been at almost EVERY LA rally/protest, and theres been no racial slurs or racial intolerance at all. So i'm not sure where people are getting that. sure we are angry at parts of the black community by seemingly ignored there own past struggles, refusing to relate the with ours, and voting YES on 8... But were definately not mad at the community as a whole and the blacks who are with us would not tolerate that action at all. Now if a black man walks up to us and puts a thumb down or flips us off, they might get a pretty bad reaction (even by there own kind) attacked? no. But he may get called something pretty unfriendly or a big rally of "shame on you" at him, which i believe is ok. If you're going to be an ass, one should expect that reaction.

over all, our protesting has been praised for its peacefulness and that's the message we are trying to get across.

im quite certain that most people you've protested with are peaceful, which is fantastic and i commend you for. but if someone calls a black man a n****r because he called him a f****t, thats gonna get lots of attention in the media and it does no one any good. nor is it in any ways justified on any level. it will only spread flames that will divide and can not be controlled and will kill your cause. none of this needs to turn racial in any way. i can only assume that this is happening to some degree because i've seen it reported. and im just saying, that is something that should be avoided at all costs, because it will never be appropriate. so if you see it happen, let that person know, behavior like that is unacceptable and not the message you're trying to spread. and if thats how they're going to act, then they are not welcome to protest at your side.

also, having expectations of the black community simply because of their past plight is an unfair expectation. i totally understand how the situations are damn near similar so it makes sense that they'd be sympathetic..but it doesnt work like that. and having that expectation only sets you up for disappointment, which can easily turn to anger.

[spideyboy_1111]

im quite certain that most people you've protested with are peaceful, which is fantastic and i commend you for. but if someone calls a black man a n-word because he called him a f-word, thats gonna get lots of attention in the media and it does no one any good. nor is it in any ways justified on any level. it will only spread flames that will divide and can not be controlled and will kill your cause. none of this needs to turn racial in any way. i can only assume that this is happening to some degree because i've seen it reported. and im just saying, that is something that should be avoided at all costs, because it will never be appropriate. so if you see it happen, let that person know, behavior like that is unacceptable and not the message you're trying to spread. and if thats how they're going to act, then they are not welcome to protest at your side.

also, having expectations of the black community simply because of their past plight is an unfair expectation. i totally understand how the situations are damn near similar so it makes sense that they'd be sympathetic..but it doesnt work like that. and having that expectation only sets you up for disappointment, which can easily turn to anger.

Well i can't speak for everyone, i've yet to see the "was called n-word because he called him a f-word" incident, but it wouldn't surprise me, as peaceful as i am too, my insides would be bursting to say that. I doubt i would, but on the inside i totally would due to the fact douche bags tend to only know how to speak douche.

But you can't judge one incident on an entire group. And I find it appauling that media would even run a story like that due to the fact F-word to us is the exact same as them getting called N-word. Two wrongs def dont make a right, and it was probably only one or 2 people calling that person that, and they were probably shut up fairly quickly. The rest of the crowed most likely would have yelled the "shame on you" chant. We are very peaceful, even when others are not.

as for expectations... i just find it sad that they refuse to related to it... even when we have the NAACP backing us.

[spideyboy_1111]

im quite certain that most people you've protested with are peaceful, which is fantastic and i commend you for. but if someone calls a black man a n-word because he called him a f-word, thats gonna get lots of attention in the media and it does no one any good. nor is it in any ways justified on any level. it will only spread flames that will divide and can not be controlled and will kill your cause. none of this needs to turn racial in any way. i can only assume that this is happening to some degree because i've seen it reported. and im just saying, that is something that should be avoided at all costs, because it will never be appropriate. so if you see it happen, let that person know, behavior like that is unacceptable and not the message you're trying to spread. and if thats how they're going to act, then they are not welcome to protest at your side.

also, having expectations of the black community simply because of their past plight is an unfair expectation. i totally understand how the situations are damn near similar so it makes sense that they'd be sympathetic..but it doesnt work like that. and having that expectation only sets you up for disappointment, which can easily turn to anger.

Well i can't speak for everyone, i've yet to see the "was called n-word because he called him a f-word" incident, but it wouldn't surprise me, as peaceful as i am too, my insides would be bursting to say that. I doubt i would, but on the inside i totally would due to the fact douche bags tend to only know how to speak douche.

But you can't judge one incident on an entire group. And I find it appauling that media would even run a story like that due to the fact F-word to us is the exact same as them getting called N-word. Two wrongs def dont make a right, and it was probably only one or 2 people calling that person that, and they were probably shut up fairly quickly. The rest of the crowed most likely would have yelled the "shame on you" chant. We are very peaceful, even when others are not.

as for expectations... i just find it sad that they refuse to related to it... even when we have the NAACP backing us.

[spideyboy_1111]

im quite certain that most people you've protested with are peaceful, which is fantastic and i commend you for. but if someone calls a black man a n-word because he called him a f-word, thats gonna get lots of attention in the media and it does no one any good. nor is it in any ways justified on any level. it will only spread flames that will divide and can not be controlled and will kill your cause. none of this needs to turn racial in any way. i can only assume that this is happening to some degree because i've seen it reported. and im just saying, that is something that should be avoided at all costs, because it will never be appropriate. so if you see it happen, let that person know, behavior like that is unacceptable and not the message you're trying to spread. and if thats how they're going to act, then they are not welcome to protest at your side.

also, having expectations of the black community simply because of their past plight is an unfair expectation. i totally understand how the situations are damn near similar so it makes sense that they'd be sympathetic..but it doesnt work like that. and having that expectation only sets you up for disappointment, which can easily turn to anger.

Well i can't speak for everyone, i've yet to see the "was called n-word because he called him a f-word" incident, but it wouldn't surprise me, as peaceful as i am too, my insides would be bursting to say that. I doubt i would, but on the inside i totally would due to the fact douche bags tend to only know how to speak douche.

But you can't judge one incident on an entire group. And I find it appauling that media would even run a story like that due to the fact F-word to us is the exact same as them getting called N-word. Two wrongs def dont make a right, and it was probably only one or 2 people calling that person that, and they were probably shut up fairly quickly. The rest of the crowed most likely would have yelled the "shame on you" chant. We are very peaceful, even when others are not.

as for expectations... i just find it sad that they refuse to related to it... even when we have the NAACP backing us.

[Motown Marvel]

Well i can't speak for everyone, i've yet to see the "was called n!gger because he called him a f@ggot" incident, but it wouldn't surprise me, as peaceful as i am too, my insides would be bursting to say that. I doubt i would, but on the inside i totally would due to the fact douche bags tend to only know how to speak douche.

But you can't judge one incident on an entire group. And I find it appauling that media would even run a story like that due to the fact F@ggot to us is the exact same as them getting called N!gger. Two wrongs def dont make a right, and it was probably only one or 2 people calling that person that, and they were probably shut up fairly quickly. The rest of the crowed most likely would have yelled the "shame on you" chant. We are very peaceful, even when others are not.

yeah, i just know that one negative thing will get ten times the spotlight of anything positive. and i would hate to see this noble cause get dragged down because of incidents like this. i would hope that leaders of these protests would recognize these reported incidents early on and cut it off at the head by making it clear to the protesters that such behavior is unacceptable and counter-productive. once theres a hint of racial tension, things can spiral out of control far too easily.

as for expectations... i just find it sad that they refuse to related to it... even when we have the NAACP backing us.

its understandable you feel this way. i mean, no matter the color of anyones skin or past injustices, its sad that ANYONE would be against this. but what the black community has suffered is something very personal to them, just like this is very personal to you. and despite the similarities, and as ideal as it would seem, you cant expect support from anyone for whatever reasons.

[Motown Marvel]

Well i can't speak for everyone, i've yet to see the "was called n!gger because he called him a f@ggot" incident, but it wouldn't surprise me, as peaceful as i am too, my insides would be bursting to say that. I doubt i would, but on the inside i totally would due to the fact douche bags tend to only know how to speak douche.

But you can't judge one incident on an entire group. And I find it appauling that media would even run a story like that due to the fact F@ggot to us is the exact same as them getting called N!gger. Two wrongs def dont make a right, and it was probably only one or 2 people calling that person that, and they were probably shut up fairly quickly. The rest of the crowed most likely would have yelled the "shame on you" chant. We are very peaceful, even when others are not.

yeah, i just know that one negative thing will get ten times the spotlight of anything positive. and i would hate to see this noble cause get dragged down because of incidents like this. i would hope that leaders of these protests would recognize these reported incidents early on and cut it off at the head by making it clear to the protesters that such behavior is unacceptable and counter-productive. once theres a hint of racial tension, things can spiral out of control far too easily.

as for expectations... i just find it sad that they refuse to related to it... even when we have the NAACP backing us.

its understandable you feel this way. i mean, no matter the color of anyones skin or past injustices, its sad that ANYONE would be against this. but what the black community has suffered is something very personal to them, just like this is very personal to you. and despite the similarities, and as ideal as it would seem, you cant expect support from anyone for whatever reasons.

[Motown Marvel]

Well i can't speak for everyone, i've yet to see the "was called n!gger because he called him a f@ggot" incident, but it wouldn't surprise me, as peaceful as i am too, my insides would be bursting to say that. I doubt i would, but on the inside i totally would due to the fact douche bags tend to only know how to speak douche.

But you can't judge one incident on an entire group. And I find it appauling that media would even run a story like that due to the fact F@ggot to us is the exact same as them getting called N!gger. Two wrongs def dont make a right, and it was probably only one or 2 people calling that person that, and they were probably shut up fairly quickly. The rest of the crowed most likely would have yelled the "shame on you" chant. We are very peaceful, even when others are not.

yeah, i just know that one negative thing will get ten times the spotlight of anything positive. and i would hate to see this noble cause get dragged down because of incidents like this. i would hope that leaders of these protests would recognize these reported incidents early on and cut it off at the head by making it clear to the protesters that such behavior is unacceptable and counter-productive. once theres a hint of racial tension, things can spiral out of control far too easily.

as for expectations... i just find it sad that they refuse to related to it... even when we have the NAACP backing us.

its understandable you feel this way. i mean, no matter the color of anyones skin or past injustices, its sad that ANYONE would be against this. but what the black community has suffered is something very personal to them, just like this is very personal to you. and despite the similarities, and as ideal as it would seem, you cant expect support from anyone for whatever reasons.

[Paradoxium]

Let's be honest, there is going to be some racial undertones with these protest because of the voting trend of the black and latino community. Some people are going to cross that line. The whole point of posting that article is so people are aware this is happening and if anyone sees it happening, they tell them to cut the ******** out.

[Paradoxium]

Let's be honest, there is going to be some racial undertones with these protest because of the voting trend of the black and latino community. Some people are going to cross that line. The whole point of posting that article is so people are aware this is happening and if anyone sees it happening, they tell them to cut the ******** out.

[Paradoxium]

Let's be honest, there is going to be some racial undertones with these protest because of the voting trend of the black and latino community. Some people are going to cross that line. The whole point of posting that article is so people are aware this is happening and if anyone sees it happening, they tell them to cut the ******** out.

[spideyboy_1111]

Let's be honest, there is going to be some racial undertones with these protest because of the voting trend of the black and latino community. Some people are going to cross that line. The whole point of posting that article is so people are aware this is happening and if anyone sees it happening, they tell them to cut the ******** out.

exactly. And i can't stress that enough. there will be A-holes on either side no matter how you much you try to stop it from happening. You can't stop certain people, and we are doing everything in our power to express peaceful protesting. because if not, im sure 50% or more would have stormed the gates of the mormon temple leveled that gaudy eye sore of a cult if they deemed right. But we all know that that just makes us look like the bad guy.. so we remain peaceful


im not sure how the protesting went today, i'm on hiatus for a few days, but they went to the mormon temple this morning with there mouths taped, during what im assuming would be there morning services.

[spideyboy_1111]

Let's be honest, there is going to be some racial undertones with these protest because of the voting trend of the black and latino community. Some people are going to cross that line. The whole point of posting that article is so people are aware this is happening and if anyone sees it happening, they tell them to cut the ******** out.

exactly. And i can't stress that enough. there will be A-holes on either side no matter how you much you try to stop it from happening. You can't stop certain people, and we are doing everything in our power to express peaceful protesting. because if not, im sure 50% or more would have stormed the gates of the mormon temple leveled that gaudy eye sore of a cult if they deemed right. But we all know that that just makes us look like the bad guy.. so we remain peaceful


im not sure how the protesting went today, i'm on hiatus for a few days, but they went to the mormon temple this morning with there mouths taped, during what im assuming would be there morning services.

[spideyboy_1111]

Let's be honest, there is going to be some racial undertones with these protest because of the voting trend of the black and latino community. Some people are going to cross that line. The whole point of posting that article is so people are aware this is happening and if anyone sees it happening, they tell them to cut the ******** out.

exactly. And i can't stress that enough. there will be A-holes on either side no matter how you much you try to stop it from happening. You can't stop certain people, and we are doing everything in our power to express peaceful protesting. because if not, im sure 50% or more would have stormed the gates of the mormon temple leveled that gaudy eye sore of a cult if they deemed right. But we all know that that just makes us look like the bad guy.. so we remain peaceful


im not sure how the protesting went today, i'm on hiatus for a few days, but they went to the mormon temple this morning with there mouths taped, during what im assuming would be there morning services.

[Franklin Richards]

Rabbits are keen.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Franklin Richards]

Rabbits are keen.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Franklin Richards]

Rabbits are keen.

:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Paradoxium]

mine is already censored to a degree with asterisks (quotation), I asterisked it more to be safe

[Paradoxium]

mine is already censored to a degree with asterisks (quotation), I asterisked it more to be safe

[Paradoxium]

mine is already censored to a degree with asterisks (quotation), I asterisked it more to be safe

[spideyboy_1111]

some more good news

http://www.ktla.com/content_landing_page/?Pasadena-Church-Vows-to-Ignore-Same-Sex-=1&blockID=130297&feedID=171


Pasadena Church Vows to Ignore Same-Sex Marriage Ban

Maya Sanchez, KTLA News

November 9, 2008

PASADENA -- 'Although in this election, Proposition 8 passed, it will not succeed.'

That rebuke, preached from the pulpit of All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena. Clergy vowed to ignore California's ban on same sex marriage, passed last Tuesday.

'We will continue to bless same sex unions here until we can once again legally celebrate same gender weddings here,' proclaimed the Reverend J. Edwin Bacon.

Outside, the church underscored its commitment with a symbolic celebration featuring a
wedding cake... and several same sex couples married since June 17th.

'Most people are still under the impression that we can change and we can't. It's in our DNA,' said Gary Dahle.

However, supporters of Prop 8 insist-- the people have decreed-- that marriage is
ordained by God between a man and a woman. Still, opponents highlight the sins of the past.

'They made the same mistakes when they said black people couldn't marry, and when black people sat in the back of the bus and we're not going to sit in the back of the bus and wait for them to make up their minds,' said Vaughan Davies.

'Two, four, six, eight, separate the church and state!'

Across town, in Downtown Los Angeles, angry protesters chanted as they rallied in defiance outside several southland churches including the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels. Demonstrators blast clergy for allegedly perpetuating misinformation about the constitutional amendment.

Back in Pasadena, members of All Saints say they will launch an educational campaign... hoping to convince others to believe, along with people such as 104 year old Lydia Wilkins.

'I think it's great.'

[spideyboy_1111]

some more good news

http://www.ktla.com/content_landing_page/?Pasadena-Church-Vows-to-Ignore-Same-Sex-=1&blockID=130297&feedID=171


Pasadena Church Vows to Ignore Same-Sex Marriage Ban

Maya Sanchez, KTLA News

November 9, 2008

PASADENA -- 'Although in this election, Proposition 8 passed, it will not succeed.'

That rebuke, preached from the pulpit of All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena. Clergy vowed to ignore California's ban on same sex marriage, passed last Tuesday.

'We will continue to bless same sex unions here until we can once again legally celebrate same gender weddings here,' proclaimed the Reverend J. Edwin Bacon.

Outside, the church underscored its commitment with a symbolic celebration featuring a
wedding cake... and several same sex couples married since June 17th.

'Most people are still under the impression that we can change and we can't. It's in our DNA,' said Gary Dahle.

However, supporters of Prop 8 insist-- the people have decreed-- that marriage is
ordained by God between a man and a woman. Still, opponents highlight the sins of the past.

'They made the same mistakes when they said black people couldn't marry, and when black people sat in the back of the bus and we're not going to sit in the back of the bus and wait for them to make up their minds,' said Vaughan Davies.

'Two, four, six, eight, separate the church and state!'

Across town, in Downtown Los Angeles, angry protesters chanted as they rallied in defiance outside several southland churches including the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels. Demonstrators blast clergy for allegedly perpetuating misinformation about the constitutional amendment.

Back in Pasadena, members of All Saints say they will launch an educational campaign... hoping to convince others to believe, along with people such as 104 year old Lydia Wilkins.

'I think it's great.'

[spideyboy_1111]

some more good news

http://www.ktla.com/content_landing_page/?Pasadena-Church-Vows-to-Ignore-Same-Sex-=1&blockID=130297&feedID=171


Pasadena Church Vows to Ignore Same-Sex Marriage Ban

Maya Sanchez, KTLA News

November 9, 2008

PASADENA -- 'Although in this election, Proposition 8 passed, it will not succeed.'

That rebuke, preached from the pulpit of All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena. Clergy vowed to ignore California's ban on same sex marriage, passed last Tuesday.

'We will continue to bless same sex unions here until we can once again legally celebrate same gender weddings here,' proclaimed the Reverend J. Edwin Bacon.

Outside, the church underscored its commitment with a symbolic celebration featuring a
wedding cake... and several same sex couples married since June 17th.

'Most people are still under the impression that we can change and we can't. It's in our DNA,' said Gary Dahle.

However, supporters of Prop 8 insist-- the people have decreed-- that marriage is
ordained by God between a man and a woman. Still, opponents highlight the sins of the past.

'They made the same mistakes when they said black people couldn't marry, and when black people sat in the back of the bus and we're not going to sit in the back of the bus and wait for them to make up their minds,' said Vaughan Davies.

'Two, four, six, eight, separate the church and state!'

Across town, in Downtown Los Angeles, angry protesters chanted as they rallied in defiance outside several southland churches including the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels. Demonstrators blast clergy for allegedly perpetuating misinformation about the constitutional amendment.

Back in Pasadena, members of All Saints say they will launch an educational campaign... hoping to convince others to believe, along with people such as 104 year old Lydia Wilkins.

'I think it's great.'

[Motown Marvel]

Guys. Change the N word and the F words in your posts. Don't bypass the sensors.


Change it before you get caught.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

sorry, i forgot that when you just say "the N word" it doesnt mean ******. :o

[Motown Marvel]

Guys. Change the N word and the F words in your posts. Don't bypass the sensors.


Change it before you get caught.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

sorry, i forgot that when you just say "the N word" it doesnt mean ******. :o

[Motown Marvel]

Guys. Change the N word and the F words in your posts. Don't bypass the sensors.


Change it before you get caught.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

sorry, i forgot that when you just say "the N word" it doesnt mean ******. :o

[Franklin Richards]

Don't forget if you quoted someone.


I'm changing my warning now. :D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Franklin Richards]

Don't forget if you quoted someone.


I'm changing my warning now. :D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[Franklin Richards]

Don't forget if you quoted someone.


I'm changing my warning now. :D


:thing: :doom: :thing:

[spideyboy_1111]

were not giving up :D (great news clips)
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=6496925

[spideyboy_1111]

were not giving up :D (great news clips)
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=6496925

[spideyboy_1111]

were not giving up :D (great news clips)
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=6496925

[UltimateJustin]

Oh well, in the end it doesn't really matter. I guess we all are learning that in our own way.

[UltimateJustin]

Oh well, in the end it doesn't really matter. I guess we all are learning that in our own way.

[UltimateJustin]

Oh well, in the end it doesn't really matter. I guess we all are learning that in our own way.

[spideyboy_1111]

Oh well, in the end it doesn't really matter. I guess we all are learning that in our own way.

huh?

[spideyboy_1111]

Oh well, in the end it doesn't really matter. I guess we all are learning that in our own way.

huh?

[spideyboy_1111]

Oh well, in the end it doesn't really matter. I guess we all are learning that in our own way.

huh?

[UltimateJustin]

huh?
I've given up the fight for change. I've given up on myself.

[UltimateJustin]

huh?
I've given up the fight for change. I've given up on myself.

[UltimateJustin]

huh?
I've given up the fight for change. I've given up on myself.

[CaptainClown]

k....so...

[CaptainClown]

k....so...

[CaptainClown]

k....so...

[spideyboy_1111]

I've given up the fight for change. I've given up on myself.

your pretty pathetic then...

[spideyboy_1111]

I've given up the fight for change. I've given up on myself.

your pretty pathetic then...

[spideyboy_1111]

I've given up the fight for change. I've given up on myself.

your pretty pathetic then...

[UltimateJustin]

your pretty pathetic then...
It's time to grow up and stop dreaming about outerspace and rights and stuff. I need to keep my feet on the ground and shut up all the time. I don't care if gays get the right to marry anymore because I've seen the truth. The machine is too big. The political syndicate wants us all dead. Not even a million marching James Francos can change history, it's all a joke. This entire country is a lie.

[UltimateJustin]

your pretty pathetic then...
It's time to grow up and stop dreaming about outerspace and rights and stuff. I need to keep my feet on the ground and shut up all the time. I don't care if gays get the right to marry anymore because I've seen the truth. The machine is too big. The political syndicate wants us all dead. Not even a million marching James Francos can change history, it's all a joke. This entire country is a lie.

[UltimateJustin]

your pretty pathetic then...
It's time to grow up and stop dreaming about outerspace and rights and stuff. I need to keep my feet on the ground and shut up all the time. I don't care if gays get the right to marry anymore because I've seen the truth. The machine is too big. The political syndicate wants us all dead. Not even a million marching James Francos can change history, it's all a joke. This entire country is a lie.

[CaptainClown]

sounds like someone discovered the fun of sniffing magic markers.

[CaptainClown]

sounds like someone discovered the fun of sniffing magic markers.

[CaptainClown]

sounds like someone discovered the fun of sniffing magic markers.

[UltimateJustin]

sounds like someone discovered the fun of sniffing magic markers.
And the harsh scent of that marker hit me hard like a piece of the moon broke off and landed on my confused head. And that marker smelled like reality. And I was confused no more.

Gay Rights, Gay Wrongs, what's the difference? I literally think none.

[UltimateJustin]

sounds like someone discovered the fun of sniffing magic markers.
And the harsh scent of that marker hit me hard like a piece of the moon broke off and landed on my confused head. And that marker smelled like reality. And I was confused no more.

Gay Rights, Gay Wrongs, what's the difference? I literally think none.

[UltimateJustin]

sounds like someone discovered the fun of sniffing magic markers.
And the harsh scent of that marker hit me hard like a piece of the moon broke off and landed on my confused head. And that marker smelled like reality. And I was confused no more.

Gay Rights, Gay Wrongs, what's the difference? I literally think none.

[spideyboy_1111]

It's time to grow up and stop dreaming about outerspace and rights and stuff. I need to keep my feet on the ground and shut up all the time. I don't care if gays get the right to marry anymore because I've seen the truth. The machine is too big. The political syndicate wants us all dead. Not even a million marching James Francos can change history, it's all a joke. This entire country is a lie.

Wow... dude grow some balls and stand up for yourself. wtf is wrong with you. about half the country is in support of us and several members of the government are too. The only joke is people like you who are to mentally anguished and self loathing that they don't even think there rights are worth it.

[spideyboy_1111]

It's time to grow up and stop dreaming about outerspace and rights and stuff. I need to keep my feet on the ground and shut up all the time. I don't care if gays get the right to marry anymore because I've seen the truth. The machine is too big. The political syndicate wants us all dead. Not even a million marching James Francos can change history, it's all a joke. This entire country is a lie.

Wow... dude grow some balls and stand up for yourself. wtf is wrong with you. about half the country is in support of us and several members of the government are too. The only joke is people like you who are to mentally anguished and self loathing that they don't even think there rights are worth it.

[spideyboy_1111]

It's time to grow up and stop dreaming about outerspace and rights and stuff. I need to keep my feet on the ground and shut up all the time. I don't care if gays get the right to marry anymore because I've seen the truth. The machine is too big. The political syndicate wants us all dead. Not even a million marching James Francos can change history, it's all a joke. This entire country is a lie.

Wow... dude grow some balls and stand up for yourself. wtf is wrong with you. about half the country is in support of us and several members of the government are too. The only joke is people like you who are to mentally anguished and self loathing that they don't even think there rights are worth it.

[spideyboy_1111]

And the harsh scent of that marker hit me hard like a piece of the moon broke off and landed on my confused head. And that marker smelled like reality. And I was confused no more.

Gay Rights, Gay Wrongs, what's the difference? I literally think none.

dude stop sniffing stuff and clear your head. stop being so jaded

[spideyboy_1111]

And the harsh scent of that marker hit me hard like a piece of the moon broke off and landed on my confused head. And that marker smelled like reality. And I was confused no more.

Gay Rights, Gay Wrongs, what's the difference? I literally think none.

dude stop sniffing stuff and clear your head. stop being so jaded

[spideyboy_1111]

And the harsh scent of that marker hit me hard like a piece of the moon broke off and landed on my confused head. And that marker smelled like reality. And I was confused no more.

Gay Rights, Gay Wrongs, what's the difference? I literally think none.

dude stop sniffing stuff and clear your head. stop being so jaded

[Ocramed]

When they allow polygamy in this country, I'll accept homosexual marriages.

O.

[Ocramed]

When they allow polygamy in this country, I'll accept homosexual marriages.

O.

[Ocramed]

When they allow polygamy in this country, I'll accept homosexual marriages.

O.

[spideyboy_1111]

When they allow polygamy in this country, I'll accept homosexual marriages.

O.

it's funny how polygamy the mormons could accept, but not homosexuality... :o i don't care for the idea of polygamy, but don't denounce the idea... i think if its like higher then a group of 3 or 4 it gets very very very weird and probably damaging mentally on the wives. I think there's alot of psychological damage with polygamy personally. But for some reason i didn't find it odd that hugh heffner pretty much was a polygamist, he just wasn't married to the 3 women.

[spideyboy_1111]

When they allow polygamy in this country, I'll accept homosexual marriages.

O.

it's funny how polygamy the mormons could accept, but not homosexuality... :o i don't care for the idea of polygamy, but don't denounce the idea... i think if its like higher then a group of 3 or 4 it gets very very very weird and probably damaging mentally on the wives. I think there's alot of psychological damage with polygamy personally. But for some reason i didn't find it odd that hugh heffner pretty much was a polygamist, he just wasn't married to the 3 women.

[spideyboy_1111]

When they allow polygamy in this country, I'll accept homosexual marriages.

O.

it's funny how polygamy the mormons could accept, but not homosexuality... :o i don't care for the idea of polygamy, but don't denounce the idea... i think if its like higher then a group of 3 or 4 it gets very very very weird and probably damaging mentally on the wives. I think there's alot of psychological damage with polygamy personally. But for some reason i didn't find it odd that hugh heffner pretty much was a polygamist, he just wasn't married to the 3 women.

[spideyboy_1111]

ok so this was like my highlight of saturday night. This girl kicked so much ass with her chanting.... she parodied somewhere over the rainbow, as well as I would walk 500 miles

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=93116010354#/video/video.php?v=93116010354&ref=nf

soo friggin hilarious

[spideyboy_1111]

ok so this was like my highlight of saturday night. This girl kicked so much ass with her chanting.... she parodied somewhere over the rainbow, as well as I would walk 500 miles

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=93116010354#/video/video.php?v=93116010354&ref=nf

soo friggin hilarious

[spideyboy_1111]

ok so this was like my highlight of saturday night. This girl kicked so much ass with her chanting.... she parodied somewhere over the rainbow, as well as I would walk 500 miles

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=93116010354#/video/video.php?v=93116010354&ref=nf

soo friggin hilarious

[UltimateJustin]

when they allow polygamy in this country, i'll accept homosexual marriages.

O.
Oh, HERE WE GO... Polygamy is practically proven to be really weird.

[UltimateJustin]

when they allow polygamy in this country, i'll accept homosexual marriages.

O.
Oh, HERE WE GO... Polygamy is practically proven to be really weird.

[UltimateJustin]

when they allow polygamy in this country, i'll accept homosexual marriages.

O.
Oh, HERE WE GO... Polygamy is practically proven to be really weird.

[Schlosser85]

when they allow polygamy in this country, i'll accept homosexual marriages.



Because two consenting adults pledging their lives to each other makes more of a mockery of the institution of marriage than multiple people who can't make up their minds all getting married to each other?

And it's not up to you to accept it or not accept it. It has nothing to do with you.

[Schlosser85]

when they allow polygamy in this country, i'll accept homosexual marriages.



Because two consenting adults pledging their lives to each other makes more of a mockery of the institution of marriage than multiple people who can't make up their minds all getting married to each other?

And it's not up to you to accept it or not accept it. It has nothing to do with you.

[Schlosser85]

when they allow polygamy in this country, i'll accept homosexual marriages.



Because two consenting adults pledging their lives to each other makes more of a mockery of the institution of marriage than multiple people who can't make up their minds all getting married to each other?

And it's not up to you to accept it or not accept it. It has nothing to do with you.

[Anubis]

I don't see anything wrong with Polygamy. Most guys got a wife, a girlfriend, and a b***h on the side anyway. :)

It's only when they start marrying 13 and 14 year olds when it starts getting weird.

[Anubis]

I don't see anything wrong with Polygamy. Most guys got a wife, a girlfriend, and a b***h on the side anyway. :)

It's only when they start marrying 13 and 14 year olds when it starts getting weird.

[Anubis]

I don't see anything wrong with Polygamy. Most guys got a wife, a girlfriend, and a b***h on the side anyway. :)

It's only when they start marrying 13 and 14 year olds when it starts getting weird.

[tpayer]

I once heard that in the end, it ends up to who is hoggin the sheets and cut one in bed. Gay or straight the same thing ends up. There is no grey area. And I thought the days of taking away civil liberties were over? WTF.

[tpayer]

I once heard that in the end, it ends up to who is hoggin the sheets and cut one in bed. Gay or straight the same thing ends up. There is no grey area. And I thought the days of taking away civil liberties were over? WTF.

[tpayer]

I once heard that in the end, it ends up to who is hoggin the sheets and cut one in bed. Gay or straight the same thing ends up. There is no grey area. And I thought the days of taking away civil liberties were over? WTF.

[BlackLantern]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue

[BlackLantern]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue

[BlackLantern]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue

[spideyboy_1111]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue

most people who don't give a crap are fine with it.. they typically go along with the change, not stop it. So apparently alot of people do care sadly :(

[spideyboy_1111]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue

most people who don't give a crap are fine with it.. they typically go along with the change, not stop it. So apparently alot of people do care sadly :(

[spideyboy_1111]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue

most people who don't give a crap are fine with it.. they typically go along with the change, not stop it. So apparently alot of people do care sadly :(

[spideyboy_1111]

Drew Barrymore joins the fight!!
MgfPcGxeDaM

AND SHE was friggin with me and the small couple hundred group and i didnt even notice :(

[Nivek]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue


I would also like to add that for every 3 people that dont care, there is at one person who is bound and determined to think Gay Marriage will affect them in some life altering way and they will vocally dominate any discussion about it.

[spideyboy_1111]

Drew Barrymore joins the fight!!
MgfPcGxeDaM

AND SHE was friggin with me and the small couple hundred group and i didnt even notice :(

[Nivek]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue


I would also like to add that for every 3 people that dont care, there is at one person who is bound and determined to think Gay Marriage will affect them in some life altering way and they will vocally dominate any discussion about it.

[spideyboy_1111]

Drew Barrymore joins the fight!!
MgfPcGxeDaM

AND SHE was friggin with me and the small couple hundred group and i didnt even notice :(

[Nivek]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue


I would also like to add that for every 3 people that dont care, there is at one person who is bound and determined to think Gay Marriage will affect them in some life altering way and they will vocally dominate any discussion about it.

[cerealkiller182]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue

Thats how I got into the issue. Cause I didnt care and i didnt think it would effect me which is why I always said yes because it didnt matter to me either way so I might as well say yes. And the more i heard about opponents reasons why and the supporters reasons why, the supporters reasons why are so much more logical. Im surprised that people arnt more like that.

[cerealkiller182]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue

Thats how I got into the issue. Cause I didnt care and i didnt think it would effect me which is why I always said yes because it didnt matter to me either way so I might as well say yes. And the more i heard about opponents reasons why and the supporters reasons why, the supporters reasons why are so much more logical. Im surprised that people arnt more like that.

[cerealkiller182]

I still maintain a big part of this problem is that there are still a ton of people who simply don't give a **** about this issue

Thats how I got into the issue. Cause I didnt care and i didnt think it would effect me which is why I always said yes because it didnt matter to me either way so I might as well say yes. And the more i heard about opponents reasons why and the supporters reasons why, the supporters reasons why are so much more logical. Im surprised that people arnt more like that.

[The Lizard]

im sure 50% or more would have stormed the gates of the mormon temple leveled that gaudy eye sore of a cult if they deemed right. But we all know that that just makes us look like the bad guy.. so we remain peaceful

Question:

Since 70% of California's African-American voters voted "yes" on Prop 8, are the anti-Prop 8 activists planning on staging big protests in front of NAACP headquarters or any historically black colleges or churches?

[The Lizard]

im sure 50% or more would have stormed the gates of the mormon temple leveled that gaudy eye sore of a cult if they deemed right. But we all know that that just makes us look like the bad guy.. so we remain peaceful

Question:

Since 70% of California's African-American voters voted "yes" on Prop 8, are the anti-Prop 8 activists planning on staging big protests in front of NAACP headquarters or any historically black colleges or churches?

[The Lizard]

im sure 50% or more would have stormed the gates of the mormon temple leveled that gaudy eye sore of a cult if they deemed right. But we all know that that just makes us look like the bad guy.. so we remain peaceful

Question:

Since 70% of California's African-American voters voted "yes" on Prop 8, are the anti-Prop 8 activists planning on staging big protests in front of NAACP headquarters or any historically black colleges or churches?

[spideyboy_1111]

Question:

Since 70% of California's African-American voters voted "yes" on Prop 8, are the anti-Prop 8 activists planning on staging big protests in front of NAACP headquarters or any historically black colleges or churches?

actually the NAACP is with us. Were not attacking races, that's not what this is about. We have protested more then just the Mormon churches as well. I believe there were a few baptists and catholic churches being protested as well, that donated money to the yes campaign. We targeted the Mormon church cuz it was a ridiculously large contribution to the yes campaign. And for that you can easily protest. You can't go after and protest a black community because you have no idea who in that black community voted yes or no. So your point is moot.

[spideyboy_1111]

Question:

Since 70% of California's African-American voters voted "yes" on Prop 8, are the anti-Prop 8 activists planning on staging big protests in front of NAACP headquarters or any historically black colleges or churches?

actually the NAACP is with us. Were not attacking races, that's not what this is about. We have protested more then just the Mormon churches as well. I believe there were a few baptists and catholic churches being protested as well, that donated money to the yes campaign. We targeted the Mormon church cuz it was a ridiculously large contribution to the yes campaign. And for that you can easily protest. You can't go after and protest a black community because you have no idea who in that black community voted yes or no. So your point is moot.

[spideyboy_1111]

Question:

Since 70% of California's African-American voters voted "yes" on Prop 8, are the anti-Prop 8 activists planning on staging big protests in front of NAACP headquarters or any historically black colleges or churches?

actually the NAACP is with us. Were not attacking races, that's not what this is about. We have protested more then just the Mormon churches as well. I believe there were a few baptists and catholic churches being protested as well, that donated money to the yes campaign. We targeted the Mormon church cuz it was a ridiculously large contribution to the yes campaign. And for that you can easily protest. You can't go after and protest a black community because you have no idea who in that black community voted yes or no. So your point is moot.

[spideyboy_1111]

Thats how I got into the issue. Cause I didnt care and i didnt think it would effect me which is why I always said yes because it didnt matter to me either way so I might as well say yes. And the more i heard about opponents reasons why and the supporters reasons why, the supporters reasons why are so much more logical. Im surprised that people arnt more like that.

can you rephrase that... it could be cuz i haven't slept yet, but the yes and logical notions got me a bit confused due to "voting yes" means no to gay marriage and "voting no" means yes to gay marriage. And which side are you saying is more logical?

[spideyboy_1111]

Thats how I got into the issue. Cause I didnt care and i didnt think it would effect me which is why I always said yes because it didnt matter to me either way so I might as well say yes. And the more i heard about opponents reasons why and the supporters reasons why, the supporters reasons why are so much more logical. Im surprised that people arnt more like that.

can you rephrase that... it could be cuz i haven't slept yet, but the yes and logical notions got me a bit confused due to "voting yes" means no to gay marriage and "voting no" means yes to gay marriage. And which side are you saying is more logical?

[spideyboy_1111]

Thats how I got into the issue. Cause I didnt care and i didnt think it would effect me which is why I always said yes because it didnt matter to me either way so I might as well say yes. And the more i heard about opponents reasons why and the supporters reasons why, the supporters reasons why are so much more logical. Im surprised that people arnt more like that.

can you rephrase that... it could be cuz i haven't slept yet, but the yes and logical notions got me a bit confused due to "voting yes" means no to gay marriage and "voting no" means yes to gay marriage. And which side are you saying is more logical?

[cerealkiller182]

can you rephrase that... it could be cuz i haven't slept yet, but the yes and logical notions got me a bit confused due to "voting yes" means no to gay marriage and "voting no" means yes to gay marriage. And which side are you saying is more logical?

I meant i was for gay marriage. I was talking about gay marriage not prop 8. I dont even have prop 8 or similar prop.

[cerealkiller182]

can you rephrase that... it could be cuz i haven't slept yet, but the yes and logical notions got me a bit confused due to "voting yes" means no to gay marriage and "voting no" means yes to gay marriage. And which side are you saying is more logical?

I meant i was for gay marriage. I was talking about gay marriage not prop 8. I dont even have prop 8 or similar prop.

[cerealkiller182]

can you rephrase that... it could be cuz i haven't slept yet, but the yes and logical notions got me a bit confused due to "voting yes" means no to gay marriage and "voting no" means yes to gay marriage. And which side are you saying is more logical?

I meant i was for gay marriage. I was talking about gay marriage not prop 8. I dont even have prop 8 or similar prop.

[Ion Kenshin]

can you rephrase that... it could be cuz i haven't slept yet, but the yes and logical notions got me a bit confused due to "voting yes" means no to gay marriage and "voting no" means yes to gay marriage. And which side are you saying is more logical?
this is not to say that all people who voted for prop 8 did not do so willingly and i am not defending them but have we put into the account the confusion that that causes where yes means no and no means yes. i mean we had a proposition for something or other in NY and i have to read it like 4 times to make sure that i was gonna mark the correct answer. i mean i wonder how many people voted yes expecting it to mean yes to gay marriages and not the other way around

[Ion Kenshin]

can you rephrase that... it could be cuz i haven't slept yet, but the yes and logical notions got me a bit confused due to "voting yes" means no to gay marriage and "voting no" means yes to gay marriage. And which side are you saying is more logical?
this is not to say that all people who voted for prop 8 did not do so willingly and i am not defending them but have we put into the account the confusion that that causes where yes means no and no means yes. i mean we had a proposition for something or other in NY and i have to read it like 4 times to make sure that i was gonna mark the correct answer. i mean i wonder how many people voted yes expecting it to mean yes to gay marriages and not the other way around

[Ion Kenshin]

can you rephrase that... it could be cuz i haven't slept yet, but the yes and logical notions got me a bit confused due to "voting yes" means no to gay marriage and "voting no" means yes to gay marriage. And which side are you saying is more logical?
this is not to say that all people who voted for prop 8 did not do so willingly and i am not defending them but have we put into the account the confusion that that causes where yes means no and no means yes. i mean we had a proposition for something or other in NY and i have to read it like 4 times to make sure that i was gonna mark the correct answer. i mean i wonder how many people voted yes expecting it to mean yes to gay marriages and not the other way around

[The Lizard]

We targeted the Mormon church cuz it was a ridiculously large contribution to the yes campaign. And for that you can easily protest. You can't go after and protest a black community because you have no idea who in that black community voted yes or no. So your point is moot.

Actually, the "Mormon Church" organization itself did not donate money to the pro-Prop 8 campaign, it encouraged its individual members to do so, but whatever.

And while we're reviewing some numbers, the anti-Prop 8 movement received more contribution money (approx $38 million) than the pro-Prop 8 movement (about $36 million). Of the pro-Prop 8 money, about $3.6 million, or one-tenth, came from Utah contributions.
(source: CBS) (http://cbs5.com/local/proposition.8.spending.2.855582.html)

Population-wise, Mormons make up about 2% of the California population.

[The Lizard]

We targeted the Mormon church cuz it was a ridiculously large contribution to the yes campaign. And for that you can easily protest. You can't go after and protest a black community because you have no idea who in that black community voted yes or no. So your point is moot.

Actually, the "Mormon Church" organization itself did not donate money to the pro-Prop 8 campaign, it encouraged its individual members to do so, but whatever.

And while we're reviewing some numbers, the anti-Prop 8 movement received more contribution money (approx $38 million) than the pro-Prop 8 movement (about $36 million). Of the pro-Prop 8 money, about $3.6 million, or one-tenth, came from Utah contributions.
(source: CBS) (http://cbs5.com/local/proposition.8.spending.2.855582.html)

Population-wise, Mormons make up about 2% of the California population.

[The Lizard]

We targeted the Mormon church cuz it was a ridiculously large contribution to the yes campaign. And for that you can easily protest. You can't go after and protest a black community because you have no idea who in that black community voted yes or no. So your point is moot.

Actually, the "Mormon Church" organization itself did not donate money to the pro-Prop 8 campaign, it encouraged its individual members to do so, but whatever.

And while we're reviewing some numbers, the anti-Prop 8 movement received more contribution money (approx $38 million) than the pro-Prop 8 movement (about $36 million). Of the pro-Prop 8 money, about $3.6 million, or one-tenth, came from Utah contributions.
(source: CBS) (http://cbs5.com/local/proposition.8.spending.2.855582.html)

Population-wise, Mormons make up about 2% of the California population.

[spideyboy_1111]

I meant i was for gay marriage. I was talking about gay marriage not prop 8. I dont even have prop 8 or similar prop.

ahh ok i was just very confused lol, so you think our side makes more sense then?

[spideyboy_1111]

I meant i was for gay marriage. I was talking about gay marriage not prop 8. I dont even have prop 8 or similar prop.

ahh ok i was just very confused lol, so you think our side makes more sense then?

[spideyboy_1111]

I meant i was for gay marriage. I was talking about gay marriage not prop 8. I dont even have prop 8 or similar prop.

ahh ok i was just very confused lol, so you think our side makes more sense then?

[spideyboy_1111]

this is not to say that all people who voted for prop 8 did not do so willingly and i am not defending them but have we put into the account the confusion that that causes where yes means no and no means yes. i mean we had a proposition for something or other in NY and i have to read it like 4 times to make sure that i was gonna mark the correct answer. i mean i wonder how many people voted yes expecting it to mean yes to gay marriages and not the other way around

i felt as long as the person read the description they should understand, but yes i do believe there could easily be a confusion with that issue. on the ballet it said "yes" and "no" and the description said "this would make an amendment to the CA constitution which would define marriage as between a man and woman" so i felt it was pretty clear, but for those who don't take the time to read, then sure it would have been pretty confusing.

[spideyboy_1111]

this is not to say that all people who voted for prop 8 did not do so willingly and i am not defending them but have we put into the account the confusion that that causes where yes means no and no means yes. i mean we had a proposition for something or other in NY and i have to read it like 4 times to make sure that i was gonna mark the correct answer. i mean i wonder how many people voted yes expecting it to mean yes to gay marriages and not the other way around

i felt as long as the person read the description they should understand, but yes i do believe there could easily be a confusion with that issue. on the ballet it said "yes" and "no" and the description said "this would make an amendment to the CA constitution which would define marriage as between a man and woman" so i felt it was pretty clear, but for those who don't take the time to read, then sure it would have been pretty confusing.

[spideyboy_1111]

this is not to say that all people who voted for prop 8 did not do so willingly and i am not defending them but have we put into the account the confusion that that causes where yes means no and no means yes. i mean we had a proposition for something or other in NY and i have to read it like 4 times to make sure that i was gonna mark the correct answer. i mean i wonder how many people voted yes expecting it to mean yes to gay marriages and not the other way around

i felt as long as the person read the description they should understand, but yes i do believe there could easily be a confusion with that issue. on the ballet it said "yes" and "no" and the description said "this would make an amendment to the CA constitution which would define marriage as between a man and woman" so i felt it was pretty clear, but for those who don't take the time to read, then sure it would have been pretty confusing.

[spideyboy_1111]

Actually, the "Mormon Church" organization itself did not donate money to the pro-Prop 8 campaign, it encouraged its individual members to do so, but whatever.

And while we're reviewing some numbers, the anti-Prop 8 movement received more contribution money (approx $38 million) than the pro-Prop 8 movement (about $36 million). Of the pro-Prop 8 money, about $3.6 million, or one-tenth, came from Utah contributions.
(source: CBS) (http://cbs5.com/local/proposition.8.spending.2.855582.html)

Population-wise, Mormons make up about 2% of the California population.

Why does who spent more on what campaign really matter? all that money could have and should have went to something much more worth while. Feeding the homeless, building schools, donating to medical research. Instead it was spent on something that really shouldn't of been an issue.

Together as a whole the Mormon church as a whole (that includes members, not just the church itself) donated over half the money for prop 8. And last i heard they were still estimating the Yes campaign. KTLA reported weds night that the yes campaign spent $40-$70 million on the yes campaign.

[spideyboy_1111]

Actually, the "Mormon Church" organization itself did not donate money to the pro-Prop 8 campaign, it encouraged its individual members to do so, but whatever.

And while we're reviewing some numbers, the anti-Prop 8 movement received more contribution money (approx $38 million) than the pro-Prop 8 movement (about $36 million). Of the pro-Prop 8 money, about $3.6 million, or one-tenth, came from Utah contributions.
(source: CBS) (http://cbs5.com/local/proposition.8.spending.2.855582.html)

Population-wise, Mormons make up about 2% of the California population.

Why does who spent more on what campaign really matter? all that money could have and should have went to something much more worth while. Feeding the homeless, building schools, donating to medical research. Instead it was spent on something that really shouldn't of been an issue.

Together as a whole the Mormon church as a whole (that includes members, not just the church itself) donated over half the money for prop 8. And last i heard they were still estimating the Yes campaign. KTLA reported weds night that the yes campaign spent $40-$70 million on the yes campaign.

[spideyboy_1111]

Actually, the "Mormon Church" organization itself did not donate money to the pro-Prop 8 campaign, it encouraged its individual members to do so, but whatever.

And while we're reviewing some numbers, the anti-Prop 8 movement received more contribution money (approx $38 million) than the pro-Prop 8 movement (about $36 million). Of the pro-Prop 8 money, about $3.6 million, or one-tenth, came from Utah contributions.
(source: CBS) (http://cbs5.com/local/proposition.8.spending.2.855582.html)

Population-wise, Mormons make up about 2% of the California population.

Why does who spent more on what campaign really matter? all that money could have and should have went to something much more worth while. Feeding the homeless, building schools, donating to medical research. Instead it was spent on something that really shouldn't of been an issue.

Together as a whole the Mormon church as a whole (that includes members, not just the church itself) donated over half the money for prop 8. And last i heard they were still estimating the Yes campaign. KTLA reported weds night that the yes campaign spent $40-$70 million on the yes campaign.

[The Lizard]

Why does who spent more on what campaign really matter? all that money could have and should have went to something much more worth while. Feeding the homeless, building schools, donating to medical research. Instead it was spent on something that really shouldn't of been an issue.

I agree, but I'm making a point here. I'll get to it in a second...

Together as a whole the Mormon church as a whole (that includes members, not just the church itself) donated over half the money for prop 8. And last i heard they were still estimating the Yes campaign. KTLA reported weds night that the yes campaign spent $40-$70 million on the yes campaign.

To clarify your data, Utah donated roughly half of the out-of-state money in support of Prop 8, not half of the total amount. Thus about 10% of the total financial support of roughly $40 million came from Utah, not half.

So why am I bringing this info up?

This newly aggressive pro-gay marriage movement needs to widen the focus of the message it's sending. The Mormon Church is an easy target to rail and protest against, but the Mormons aren't really the problem here beyond their usual predictable stance on traditional marriage. As 2% of the CA population, their actual voting power is not that much.

Finances and contributions aren't the problem either, since the anti-8 campaign raised more money than the pro-8 campaign.

The real problem is that total 52% of Californians who voted "yes". The problem is the 70% of black voters who voted "yes". I was being sarcastic about protesting the NAACP of course, but that "racial profiling" aspect of the Prop 8 results is interesting and disturbing.

The message needs to be carried further than just punishing the Mormons, which is admittedly too easy and does nothing anyway since Mormons thrive on the idea that they're persecuted anyway.

[The Lizard]

Why does who spent more on what campaign really matter? all that money could have and should have went to something much more worth while. Feeding the homeless, building schools, donating to medical research. Instead it was spent on something that really shouldn't of been an issue.

I agree, but I'm making a point here. I'll get to it in a second...

Together as a whole the Mormon church as a whole (that includes members, not just the church itself) donated over half the money for prop 8. And last i heard they were still estimating the Yes campaign. KTLA reported weds night that the yes campaign spent $40-$70 million on the yes campaign.

To clarify your data, Utah donated roughly half of the out-of-state money in support of Prop 8, not half of the total amount. Thus about 10% of the total financial support of roughly $40 million came from Utah, not half.

So why am I bringing this info up?

This newly aggressive pro-gay marriage movement needs to widen the focus of the message it's sending. The Mormon Church is an easy target to rail and protest against, but the Mormons aren't really the problem here beyond their usual predictable stance on traditional marriage. As 2% of the CA population, their actual voting power is not that much.

Finances and contributions aren't the problem either, since the anti-8 campaign raised more money than the pro-8 campaign.

The real problem is that total 52% of Californians who voted "yes". The problem is the 70% of black voters who voted "yes". I was being sarcastic about protesting the NAACP of course, but that "racial profiling" aspect of the Prop 8 results is interesting and disturbing.

The message needs to be carried further than just punishing the Mormons, which is admittedly too easy and does nothing anyway since Mormons thrive on the idea that they're persecuted anyway.

[The Lizard]

Why does who spent more on what campaign really matter? all that money could have and should have went to something much more worth while. Feeding the homeless, building schools, donating to medical research. Instead it was spent on something that really shouldn't of been an issue.

I agree, but I'm making a point here. I'll get to it in a second...

Together as a whole the Mormon church as a whole (that includes members, not just the church itself) donated over half the money for prop 8. And last i heard they were still estimating the Yes campaign. KTLA reported weds night that the yes campaign spent $40-$70 million on the yes campaign.

To clarify your data, Utah donated roughly half of the out-of-state money in support of Prop 8, not half of the total amount. Thus about 10% of the total financial support of roughly $40 million came from Utah, not half.

So why am I bringing this info up?

This newly aggressive pro-gay marriage movement needs to widen the focus of the message it's sending. The Mormon Church is an easy target to rail and protest against, but the Mormons aren't really the problem here beyond their usual predictable stance on traditional marriage. As 2% of the CA population, their actual voting power is not that much.

Finances and contributions aren't the problem either, since the anti-8 campaign raised more money than the pro-8 campaign.

The real problem is that total 52% of Californians who voted "yes". The problem is the 70% of black voters who voted "yes". I was being sarcastic about protesting the NAACP of course, but that "racial profiling" aspect of the Prop 8 results is interesting and disturbing.

The message needs to be carried further than just punishing the Mormons, which is admittedly too easy and does nothing anyway since Mormons thrive on the idea that they're persecuted anyway.

[BlackLantern]

...yea...what Lizard said....just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too

[BlackLantern]

...yea...what Lizard said....just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too

[BlackLantern]

...yea...what Lizard said....just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too

[ShadowBoxing]

...yea...what Lizard said....just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too...And I don't think it's just Jesus who is influencing their views, seriously. The rap community has a huge axe to grind with the homosexual community, and somehow I don't think Ludacris and his "bit*hes" end their bumping and grinding sessions with a good ole' trip to the local youth group meeting.

[ShadowBoxing]

...yea...what Lizard said....just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too...And I don't think it's just Jesus who is influencing their views, seriously. The rap community has a huge axe to grind with the homosexual community, and somehow I don't think Ludacris and his "bit*hes" end their bumping and grinding sessions with a good ole' trip to the local youth group meeting.

[ShadowBoxing]

...yea...what Lizard said....just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too...And I don't think it's just Jesus who is influencing their views, seriously. The rap community has a huge axe to grind with the homosexual community, and somehow I don't think Ludacris and his "bit*hes" end their bumping and grinding sessions with a good ole' trip to the local youth group meeting.

[StorminNorman]

Drew Barrymore joins the fight!!
MgfPcGxeDaM

AND SHE was friggin with me and the small couple hundred group and i didnt even notice :(

If Drew Barrymore joins the fight I may have to question my own stance.

I don't want to be associated with her on any level. :csad:

[StorminNorman]

Drew Barrymore joins the fight!!
MgfPcGxeDaM

AND SHE was friggin with me and the small couple hundred group and i didnt even notice :(

If Drew Barrymore joins the fight I may have to question my own stance.

I don't want to be associated with her on any level. :csad:

[StorminNorman]

Drew Barrymore joins the fight!!
MgfPcGxeDaM

AND SHE was friggin with me and the small couple hundred group and i didnt even notice :(

If Drew Barrymore joins the fight I may have to question my own stance.

I don't want to be associated with her on any level. :csad:

[The Lizard]

...yea...what Lizard said....just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too

Well, maybe not protest minority communities per se, but mobilize members of those communities to organize rallies on their own.

There's no way the current pro-Gay marriage movement is going to actually protest in African-American communities or in front of black churches, because that's a public-relations nightmare. Particularly when the vast majority of the protesters are not black.

[The Lizard]

...yea...what Lizard said....just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too

Well, maybe not protest minority communities per se, but mobilize members of those communities to organize rallies on their own.

There's no way the current pro-Gay marriage movement is going to actually protest in African-American communities or in front of black churches, because that's a public-relations nightmare. Particularly when the vast majority of the protesters are not black.

[The Lizard]

...yea...what Lizard said....just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too

Well, maybe not protest minority communities per se, but mobilize members of those communities to organize rallies on their own.

There's no way the current pro-Gay marriage movement is going to actually protest in African-American communities or in front of black churches, because that's a public-relations nightmare. Particularly when the vast majority of the protesters are not black.

[Anubis]

Well, you gotta do what you gotta do. Nobody said it was gonna be easy. Going to have to try and point out the hypocrisy of it all, and with black people, man. I can tell you as a black person, that's gonna be quite a mine field.

[Anubis]

Well, you gotta do what you gotta do. Nobody said it was gonna be easy. Going to have to try and point out the hypocrisy of it all, and with black people, man. I can tell you as a black person, that's gonna be quite a mine field.

[Anubis]

Well, you gotta do what you gotta do. Nobody said it was gonna be easy. Going to have to try and point out the hypocrisy of it all, and with black people, man. I can tell you as a black person, that's gonna be quite a mine field.

[Schlosser85]

just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too

That has to be about the worst, most counterproductive idea I've ever heard of. Respond to bigotry with bigotry in kind? What's next? Gays harassing blacks, calling them their equivalent of the slurs we're so used to being on the receiving end of, as has already happened a couple times in these protests? Yea, that will help get people to accept us. :whatever:

You don't know which blacks and latinos voted yes on Proposition 8 and which voted no. For that matter, you don't know which blacks and latinos are gay and which ones are straight.

All I can say is, I'm glad I'm not a black gay man, because it sounds like I'd be getting it from both sides. A majority of your own culture is down on you, and some fellow gays who should all be united together against this assume you're one of the homophobes because you're black.

Well, maybe not protest minority communities per se, but mobilize members of those communities to organize rallies on their own.


This is a good idea.

[Schlosser85]

just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too

That has to be about the worst, most counterproductive idea I've ever heard of. Respond to bigotry with bigotry in kind? What's next? Gays harassing blacks, calling them their equivalent of the slurs we're so used to being on the receiving end of, as has already happened a couple times in these protests? Yea, that will help get people to accept us. :whatever:

You don't know which blacks and latinos voted yes on Proposition 8 and which voted no. For that matter, you don't know which blacks and latinos are gay and which ones are straight.

All I can say is, I'm glad I'm not a black gay man, because it sounds like I'd be getting it from both sides. A majority of your own culture is down on you, and some fellow gays who should all be united together against this assume you're one of the homophobes because you're black.

Well, maybe not protest minority communities per se, but mobilize members of those communities to organize rallies on their own.


This is a good idea.

[Schlosser85]

just focusing on one group isn't going to help....You might have to get ugly and start protesting the black and latino communities...the numbers are simply too obvious not too

That has to be about the worst, most counterproductive idea I've ever heard of. Respond to bigotry with bigotry in kind? What's next? Gays harassing blacks, calling them their equivalent of the slurs we're so used to being on the receiving end of, as has already happened a couple times in these protests? Yea, that will help get people to accept us. :whatever:

You don't know which blacks and latinos voted yes on Proposition 8 and which voted no. For that matter, you don't know which blacks and latinos are gay and which ones are straight.

All I can say is, I'm glad I'm not a black gay man, because it sounds like I'd be getting it from both sides. A majority of your own culture is down on you, and some fellow gays who should all be united together against this assume you're one of the homophobes because you're black.

Well, maybe not protest minority communities per se, but mobilize members of those communities to organize rallies on their own.


This is a good idea.

[BlackLantern]

...And I don't think it's just Jesus who is influencing their views, seriously. The rap community has a huge axe to grind with the homosexual community, and somehow I don't think Ludacris and his "bit*hes" end their bumping and grinding sessions with a good ole' trip to the local youth group meeting.

Well...the typical view of the black man is a tough, masculine type....not someone who likes the ****

[BlackLantern]

...And I don't think it's just Jesus who is influencing their views, seriously. The rap community has a huge axe to grind with the homosexual community, and somehow I don't think Ludacris and his "bit*hes" end their bumping and grinding sessions with a good ole' trip to the local youth group meeting.

Well...the typical view of the black man is a tough, masculine type....not someone who likes the ****

[BlackLantern]

...And I don't think it's just Jesus who is influencing their views, seriously. The rap community has a huge axe to grind with the homosexual community, and somehow I don't think Ludacris and his "bit*hes" end their bumping and grinding sessions with a good ole' trip to the local youth group meeting.

Well...the typical view of the black man is a tough, masculine type....not someone who likes the ****

[ShadowBoxing]

Well...the typical view of the black man is a tough, masculine type....not someone who likes the ****
...which is ironic considering that the bling and fashion of the rap community often comes from the homosexual community.

[ShadowBoxing]

Well...the typical view of the black man is a tough, masculine type....not someone who likes the ****
...which is ironic considering that the bling and fashion of the rap community often comes from the homosexual community.

[ShadowBoxing]

Well...the typical view of the black man is a tough, masculine type....not someone who likes the ****
...which is ironic considering that the bling and fashion of the rap community often comes from the homosexual community.

[Bathead]

From what I've been led to understand, both the black and Latino communities have a long-standing problem with homosexuality. It's what has led to the "being on the down-low" problem that is causing a lot of problems for the black community. The latinos have long been concerned with the concept of Machismo, with a rather narrow concept of what it means to be a man. Both of these attitudes can be again traced back to the church, which has a heavy influence on both groups.

[Bathead]

From what I've been led to understand, both the black and Latino communities have a long-standing problem with homosexuality. It's what has led to the "being on the down-low" problem that is causing a lot of problems for the black community. The latinos have long been concerned with the concept of Machismo, with a rather narrow concept of what it means to be a man. Both of these attitudes can be again traced back to the church, which has a heavy influence on both groups.

[Bathead]

From what I've been led to understand, both the black and Latino communities have a long-standing problem with homosexuality. It's what has led to the "being on the down-low" problem that is causing a lot of problems for the black community. The latinos have long been concerned with the concept of Machismo, with a rather narrow concept of what it means to be a man. Both of these attitudes can be again traced back to the church, which has a heavy influence on both groups.

[BlackLantern]

From what I've been led to understand, both the black and Latino communities have a long-standing problem with homosexuality. It's what has led to the "being on the down-low" problem that is causing a lot of problems for the black community. The latinos have long been concerned with the concept of Machismo, with a rather narrow concept of what it means to be a man. Both of these attitudes can be again traced back to the church, which has a heavy influence on both groups.

Pretty much dead on....

[BlackLantern]

From what I've been led to understand, both the black and Latino communities have a long-standing problem with homosexuality. It's what has led to the "being on the down-low" problem that is causing a lot of problems for the black community. The latinos have long been concerned with the concept of Machismo, with a rather narrow concept of what it means to be a man. Both of these attitudes can be again traced back to the church, which has a heavy influence on both groups.

Pretty much dead on....

[BlackLantern]

From what I've been led to understand, both the black and Latino communities have a long-standing problem with homosexuality. It's what has led to the "being on the down-low" problem that is causing a lot of problems for the black community. The latinos have long been concerned with the concept of Machismo, with a rather narrow concept of what it means to be a man. Both of these attitudes can be again traced back to the church, which has a heavy influence on both groups.

Pretty much dead on....

[The Lizard]

The word "bigotry" is of course an often used button-pushing tool in today's society, but this issue raises three different types of bigotry.

1. Racial bigotry

2. Sexual orientation bigotry

3. Anti-Religious bigotry

People seem to have drastically differing opinions on the relative severity of these types of bigotry. Thus you have certain members of the African-American community who don't agree that the Gay Rights movement and Civil Rights movement are similar. Thus you have members of the Gay Rights community who have no problem with "hating on the haters", as long as the haters in question are religious types. Thus you have religious folk crying that their Freedom of Religion rights are being attacked, while trying to modify the Constitution to limit the rights of others.

[The Lizard]

The word "bigotry" is of course an often used button-pushing tool in today's society, but this issue raises three different types of bigotry.

1. Racial bigotry

2. Sexual orientation bigotry

3. Anti-Religious bigotry

People seem to have drastically differing opinions on the relative severity of these types of bigotry. Thus you have certain members of the African-American community who don't agree that the Gay Rights movement and Civil Rights movement are similar. Thus you have members of the Gay Rights community who have no problem with "hating on the haters", as long as the haters in question are religious types. Thus you have religious folk crying that their Freedom of Religion rights are being attacked, while trying to modify the Constitution to limit the rights of others.

[The Lizard]

The word "bigotry" is of course an often used button-pushing tool in today's society, but this issue raises three different types of bigotry.

1. Racial bigotry

2. Sexual orientation bigotry

3. Anti-Religious bigotry

People seem to have drastically differing opinions on the relative severity of these types of bigotry. Thus you have certain members of the African-American community who don't agree that the Gay Rights movement and Civil Rights movement are similar. Thus you have members of the Gay Rights community who have no problem with "hating on the haters", as long as the haters in question are religious types. Thus you have religious folk crying that their Freedom of Religion rights are being attacked, while trying to modify the Constitution to limit the rights of others.

[Anubis]

Hypocrisy, ain't it grand?

[Anubis]

Hypocrisy, ain't it grand?

[Anubis]

Hypocrisy, ain't it grand?