Discussion: Gay Rights II

[spideyboy_1111]

Education is a serious issue in this country....we have college freshmen who have the reading equivalency of an 8th grader....40 percent of HS students can't identify Africa on a world map, and both HS and college dropout rates are climbing....it's a problem, I tend to think the future of this countys children is a bit more important than gay people getting married

True, but I've seen very little of what i'd call a "crisis" college and HS drop out rates due tend to climb during a dwindling economy and war time. We fix both of those, and we should be fine. Money can go back into education.

[BlackLantern]

It's not a problem that you can throw money at and fix....We have a climate of kids that don't want to learn, we have teachers who burn out in 2-4 years because of that climate, you have parents suing school districts because their kids get failing grades.....the education system, as a whole, needs to be overhauled....

[BlackLantern]

It's not a problem that you can throw money at and fix....We have a climate of kids that don't want to learn, we have teachers who burn out in 2-4 years because of that climate, you have parents suing school districts because their kids get failing grades.....the education system, as a whole, needs to be overhauled....

[BlackLantern]

It's not a problem that you can throw money at and fix....We have a climate of kids that don't want to learn, we have teachers who burn out in 2-4 years because of that climate, you have parents suing school districts because their kids get failing grades.....the education system, as a whole, needs to be overhauled....

[spideyboy_1111]

It's not a problem that you can throw money at and fix....We have a climate of kids that don't want to learn, we have teachers who burn out in 2-4 years because of that climate, you have parents suing school districts because their kids get failing grades.....the education system, as a whole, needs to be overhauled....

Kids who don't want to learn, i can't honestly blame the educational system for, i blame the parents and the way they were raised. How else can anyone for that matter actually fix the educational system without funding them more? Isn't that the main problem? The only thing i could say is pass a law that does not allow high school drop outs period. They should face jail time or charges if they do. And continue to attend till they pass. Then mandate a law where after a certain date of birth, you are not allowed to hire unless they have a Diploma/GED. There'd have to be acceptations, but I personally think the only thing we can do other then fund better, is make the school system stricter.

[spideyboy_1111]

It's not a problem that you can throw money at and fix....We have a climate of kids that don't want to learn, we have teachers who burn out in 2-4 years because of that climate, you have parents suing school districts because their kids get failing grades.....the education system, as a whole, needs to be overhauled....

Kids who don't want to learn, i can't honestly blame the educational system for, i blame the parents and the way they were raised. How else can anyone for that matter actually fix the educational system without funding them more? Isn't that the main problem? The only thing i could say is pass a law that does not allow high school drop outs period. They should face jail time or charges if they do. And continue to attend till they pass. Then mandate a law where after a certain date of birth, you are not allowed to hire unless they have a Diploma/GED. There'd have to be acceptations, but I personally think the only thing we can do other then fund better, is make the school system stricter.

[spideyboy_1111]

It's not a problem that you can throw money at and fix....We have a climate of kids that don't want to learn, we have teachers who burn out in 2-4 years because of that climate, you have parents suing school districts because their kids get failing grades.....the education system, as a whole, needs to be overhauled....

Kids who don't want to learn, i can't honestly blame the educational system for, i blame the parents and the way they were raised. How else can anyone for that matter actually fix the educational system without funding them more? Isn't that the main problem? The only thing i could say is pass a law that does not allow high school drop outs period. They should face jail time or charges if they do. And continue to attend till they pass. Then mandate a law where after a certain date of birth, you are not allowed to hire unless they have a Diploma/GED. There'd have to be acceptations, but I personally think the only thing we can do other then fund better, is make the school system stricter.

[spideyboy_1111]

Wow, on a slightly off topic piece of info, i just learned something surprisingly new to me.

So i'm currently reading a book on the Vietnam war for class, and it's been discussing Ho Chi Minh, and a bit of the Russian revolution. I had no idea that when the "peasants" took over around 1917, that there communistic rule, brought about women's rights and legalized homosexuality in Russia... IN 1917! lol. That's pretty amazing how ahead of there time they were. Hell in the US women's rights weren't added to the constitution till 1920.

thought i'd share that :)

[spideyboy_1111]

Wow, on a slightly off topic piece of info, i just learned something surprisingly new to me.

So i'm currently reading a book on the Vietnam war for class, and it's been discussing Ho Chi Minh, and a bit of the Russian revolution. I had no idea that when the "peasants" took over around 1917, that there communistic rule, brought about women's rights and legalized homosexuality in Russia... IN 1917! lol. That's pretty amazing how ahead of there time they were. Hell in the US women's rights weren't added to the constitution till 1920.

thought i'd share that :)

[spideyboy_1111]

Wow, on a slightly off topic piece of info, i just learned something surprisingly new to me.

So i'm currently reading a book on the Vietnam war for class, and it's been discussing Ho Chi Minh, and a bit of the Russian revolution. I had no idea that when the "peasants" took over around 1917, that there communistic rule, brought about women's rights and legalized homosexuality in Russia... IN 1917! lol. That's pretty amazing how ahead of there time they were. Hell in the US women's rights weren't added to the constitution till 1920.

thought i'd share that :)

[The Senator]

Wow, on a slightly off topic piece of info, i just learned something surprisingly new to me.

So i'm currently reading a book on the Vietnam war for class, and it's been discussing Ho Chi Minh, and a bit of the Russian revolution. I had no idea that when the "peasants" took over around 1917, that there communistic rule, brought about women's rights and legalized homosexuality in Russia... IN 1917! lol. That's pretty amazing how ahead of there time they were. Hell in the US women's rights weren't added to the constitution till 1920.

thought i'd share that :)

Then Stalin came along and everything changed...

[The Senator]

Wow, on a slightly off topic piece of info, i just learned something surprisingly new to me.

So i'm currently reading a book on the Vietnam war for class, and it's been discussing Ho Chi Minh, and a bit of the Russian revolution. I had no idea that when the "peasants" took over around 1917, that there communistic rule, brought about women's rights and legalized homosexuality in Russia... IN 1917! lol. That's pretty amazing how ahead of there time they were. Hell in the US women's rights weren't added to the constitution till 1920.

thought i'd share that :)

Then Stalin came along and everything changed...

[The Senator]

Wow, on a slightly off topic piece of info, i just learned something surprisingly new to me.

So i'm currently reading a book on the Vietnam war for class, and it's been discussing Ho Chi Minh, and a bit of the Russian revolution. I had no idea that when the "peasants" took over around 1917, that there communistic rule, brought about women's rights and legalized homosexuality in Russia... IN 1917! lol. That's pretty amazing how ahead of there time they were. Hell in the US women's rights weren't added to the constitution till 1920.

thought i'd share that :)

Then Stalin came along and everything changed...

[BlackLantern]

Then Stalin came along and everything changed...

...having people arbitrarily shot will change things....

[BlackLantern]

Then Stalin came along and everything changed...

...having people arbitrarily shot will change things....

[BlackLantern]

Then Stalin came along and everything changed...

...having people arbitrarily shot will change things....

[spideyboy_1111]

^true, but least the people had the right idea before hand :(

[spideyboy_1111]

^true, but least the people had the right idea before hand :(

[spideyboy_1111]

^true, but least the people had the right idea before hand :(

[C.F. Kane]

Then Stalin came along and everything changed...

Utopian revolutions tend to end up that way...

[C.F. Kane]

Then Stalin came along and everything changed...

Utopian revolutions tend to end up that way...

[C.F. Kane]

Then Stalin came along and everything changed...

Utopian revolutions tend to end up that way...

[spideyboy_1111]

Utopian revolutions tend to end up that way...

indeed... all is well till greed and power sets in :(



btw, im in class right now (were on break) and since this is my class thats pretty much nothing but Vietnam, i've decided our movement needs a Jane Fonda! lol

[spideyboy_1111]

Utopian revolutions tend to end up that way...

indeed... all is well till greed and power sets in :(



btw, im in class right now (were on break) and since this is my class thats pretty much nothing but Vietnam, i've decided our movement needs a Jane Fonda! lol

[spideyboy_1111]

Utopian revolutions tend to end up that way...

indeed... all is well till greed and power sets in :(



btw, im in class right now (were on break) and since this is my class thats pretty much nothing but Vietnam, i've decided our movement needs a Jane Fonda! lol

[Marx]

indeed... all is well till greed and power sets in :(



btw, im in class right now (were on break) and since this is my class thats pretty much nothing but Vietnam, i've decided our movement needs a Jane Fonda! lol

Is Ellen Degeneres not good enough for you then? :huh:

[Marx]

indeed... all is well till greed and power sets in :(



btw, im in class right now (were on break) and since this is my class thats pretty much nothing but Vietnam, i've decided our movement needs a Jane Fonda! lol

Is Ellen Degeneres not good enough for you then? :huh:

[Marx]

indeed... all is well till greed and power sets in :(



btw, im in class right now (were on break) and since this is my class thats pretty much nothing but Vietnam, i've decided our movement needs a Jane Fonda! lol

Is Ellen Degeneres not good enough for you then? :huh:

[jaguarr]

Is Ellen Degeneres not good enough for you then? :huh:

Dude...that was just cruel. :ikyn

jag

[jaguarr]

Is Ellen Degeneres not good enough for you then? :huh:

Dude...that was just cruel. :ikyn

jag

[jaguarr]

Is Ellen Degeneres not good enough for you then? :huh:

Dude...that was just cruel. :ikyn

jag

[spideyboy_1111]

Is Ellen Degeneres not good enough for you then? :huh:

No, she's yet to actively join us. And honestly for TV's top gay star, she rarely talks about the movement on her show. And im kinda mad at her for that.

People need to take risks and actively support, rather then twiddle there thumbs.

Honestly though, i think we need a strait name in power to get us better support. Now if we could get oprah, as a strait black woman to become active, then that'd be amazing, but i dont see that happening :(

[spideyboy_1111]

Is Ellen Degeneres not good enough for you then? :huh:

No, she's yet to actively join us. And honestly for TV's top gay star, she rarely talks about the movement on her show. And im kinda mad at her for that.

People need to take risks and actively support, rather then twiddle there thumbs.

Honestly though, i think we need a strait name in power to get us better support. Now if we could get oprah, as a strait black woman to become active, then that'd be amazing, but i dont see that happening :(

[spideyboy_1111]

Is Ellen Degeneres not good enough for you then? :huh:

No, she's yet to actively join us. And honestly for TV's top gay star, she rarely talks about the movement on her show. And im kinda mad at her for that.

People need to take risks and actively support, rather then twiddle there thumbs.

Honestly though, i think we need a strait name in power to get us better support. Now if we could get oprah, as a strait black woman to become active, then that'd be amazing, but i dont see that happening :(

[BlackLantern]

It's a daytime talk show, not a political issue show......as far as ellen is concerned

[BlackLantern]

It's a daytime talk show, not a political issue show......as far as ellen is concerned

[BlackLantern]

It's a daytime talk show, not a political issue show......as far as ellen is concerned

[deathfromabove]

Education is a serious issue in this country....we have college freshmen who have the reading equivalency of an 8th grader....40 percent of HS students can't identify Africa on a world map, and both HS and college dropout rates are climbing....it's a problem, I tend to think the future of this countys children is a bit more important than gay people getting married

you're right we certainly cant deal with both at the same time:whatever::cmad:

because our schools are failing we shouldnt let gays marry?

[deathfromabove]

Education is a serious issue in this country....we have college freshmen who have the reading equivalency of an 8th grader....40 percent of HS students can't identify Africa on a world map, and both HS and college dropout rates are climbing....it's a problem, I tend to think the future of this countys children is a bit more important than gay people getting married

you're right we certainly cant deal with both at the same time:whatever::cmad:

because our schools are failing we shouldnt let gays marry?

[deathfromabove]

Education is a serious issue in this country....we have college freshmen who have the reading equivalency of an 8th grader....40 percent of HS students can't identify Africa on a world map, and both HS and college dropout rates are climbing....it's a problem, I tend to think the future of this countys children is a bit more important than gay people getting married

you're right we certainly cant deal with both at the same time:whatever::cmad:

because our schools are failing we shouldnt let gays marry?

[BlackLantern]

I would guess most in this country would consider education a higher priority over gays marrying though.....

[BlackLantern]

I would guess most in this country would consider education a higher priority over gays marrying though.....

[BlackLantern]

I would guess most in this country would consider education a higher priority over gays marrying though.....

[Marx]

Dude...that was just cruel. :ikyn

jag

I was being serious Jag! :ikyn


No, she's yet to actively join us. And honestly for TV's top gay star, she rarely talks about the movement on her show. And im kinda mad at her for that.

People need to take risks and actively support, rather then twiddle there thumbs.

Honestly though, i think we need a strait name in power to get us better support. Now if we could get oprah, as a strait black woman to become active, then that'd be amazing, but i dont see that happening :(

Ellen discussed Prop 8 before the election and she has continually discusses her marriage. She broke down into tears when discussing Lawrence King's murder on live tv.

[Marx]

Dude...that was just cruel. :ikyn

jag

I was being serious Jag! :ikyn


No, she's yet to actively join us. And honestly for TV's top gay star, she rarely talks about the movement on her show. And im kinda mad at her for that.

People need to take risks and actively support, rather then twiddle there thumbs.

Honestly though, i think we need a strait name in power to get us better support. Now if we could get oprah, as a strait black woman to become active, then that'd be amazing, but i dont see that happening :(

Ellen discussed Prop 8 before the election and she has continually discusses her marriage. She broke down into tears when discussing Lawrence King's murder on live tv.

[Marx]

Dude...that was just cruel. :ikyn

jag

I was being serious Jag! :ikyn


No, she's yet to actively join us. And honestly for TV's top gay star, she rarely talks about the movement on her show. And im kinda mad at her for that.

People need to take risks and actively support, rather then twiddle there thumbs.

Honestly though, i think we need a strait name in power to get us better support. Now if we could get oprah, as a strait black woman to become active, then that'd be amazing, but i dont see that happening :(

Ellen discussed Prop 8 before the election and she has continually discusses her marriage. She broke down into tears when discussing Lawrence King's murder on live tv.

[Holiday]

It's a daytime talk show, not a political issue show......as far as ellen is concerned

She's probably the most public gay figure, she should use her fame and influence to speak out no matter what kind of show she does.

[Holiday]

It's a daytime talk show, not a political issue show......as far as ellen is concerned

She's probably the most public gay figure, she should use her fame and influence to speak out no matter what kind of show she does.

[Holiday]

It's a daytime talk show, not a political issue show......as far as ellen is concerned

She's probably the most public gay figure, she should use her fame and influence to speak out no matter what kind of show she does.

[BlackLantern]

I agree with you....but she'll keep it as rather sedated support so that her sponsors don't get skittish....

[BlackLantern]

I agree with you....but she'll keep it as rather sedated support so that her sponsors don't get skittish....

[BlackLantern]

I agree with you....but she'll keep it as rather sedated support so that her sponsors don't get skittish....

[Holiday]

I agree with you....but she'll keep it as rather sedated support so that her sponsors don't get skittish....

That's true. She doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds her.

[Holiday]

I agree with you....but she'll keep it as rather sedated support so that her sponsors don't get skittish....

That's true. She doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds her.

[Holiday]

I agree with you....but she'll keep it as rather sedated support so that her sponsors don't get skittish....

That's true. She doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds her.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Daytime talk tv seems to have gotten more political.

The View comes to mind.

Course...in that case, it's just everyone owning the hell out of Hasslebeck.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Daytime talk tv seems to have gotten more political.

The View comes to mind.

Course...in that case, it's just everyone owning the hell out of Hasslebeck.

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Daytime talk tv seems to have gotten more political.

The View comes to mind.

Course...in that case, it's just everyone owning the hell out of Hasslebeck.

[deathfromabove]

I'm against Proposition 8 and all, but as an Af-Am it does make me a bit uncomfortable and kinda frustrated that this whole thing keeps getting compared to the Civil Rights movement.

And the whole "Blame the Af-Am community" attitude in Cali isn't helping either.

it makes you uncomfortable? uhhhh too bad. it is a civil rights issue. it shouldnt even be debated. as a member of a group that was also once legally discriminated against you would think you might have a bit more sympathy.

oh and how many race riots were you involved in? how many times did they turn the hoses on you? how many civil rights marches have you been too? how many of your friends have been beaten to death fro being who they are?

im not even gay but the attitude is pathetic.

^^^that's not how the black community sees it....it's not the same, and I'm inclined to agree

no its not the same. just as the civil rights movement wasnt the same as the women's rights movement. it is still a civil rights issue.

1. The Economy
2. Iraq
3. Global Community Relations
4. Energy
5. Education
6. Crime
Id put it somewhere between 7 and 10

its a good thing you were not making decisions back in the sixties then. because we had

1 a slowing economy
2 vietnam
3 ussr
4 cuba (n missile crisis)
5 and the cold war
6 a coming energy crisis
7 pollution
8 education
9 crime

and the space race was just heating up.

so should we have put off the civil rights movement until it was more convenient then? hmmmmn? till vietnam ended? how bout the cold war?

your attitude is straight up ignorant.

[deathfromabove]

I'm against Proposition 8 and all, but as an Af-Am it does make me a bit uncomfortable and kinda frustrated that this whole thing keeps getting compared to the Civil Rights movement.

And the whole "Blame the Af-Am community" attitude in Cali isn't helping either.

it makes you uncomfortable? uhhhh too bad. it is a civil rights issue. it shouldnt even be debated. as a member of a group that was also once legally discriminated against you would think you might have a bit more sympathy.

oh and how many race riots were you involved in? how many times did they turn the hoses on you? how many civil rights marches have you been too? how many of your friends have been beaten to death fro being who they are?

im not even gay but the attitude is pathetic.

^^^that's not how the black community sees it....it's not the same, and I'm inclined to agree

no its not the same. just as the civil rights movement wasnt the same as the women's rights movement. it is still a civil rights issue.

1. The Economy
2. Iraq
3. Global Community Relations
4. Energy
5. Education
6. Crime
Id put it somewhere between 7 and 10

its a good thing you were not making decisions back in the sixties then. because we had

1 a slowing economy
2 vietnam
3 ussr
4 cuba (n missile crisis)
5 and the cold war
6 a coming energy crisis
7 pollution
8 education
9 crime

and the space race was just heating up.

so should we have put off the civil rights movement until it was more convenient then? hmmmmn? till vietnam ended? how bout the cold war?

your attitude is straight up ignorant.

[deathfromabove]

I'm against Proposition 8 and all, but as an Af-Am it does make me a bit uncomfortable and kinda frustrated that this whole thing keeps getting compared to the Civil Rights movement.

And the whole "Blame the Af-Am community" attitude in Cali isn't helping either.

it makes you uncomfortable? uhhhh too bad. it is a civil rights issue. it shouldnt even be debated. as a member of a group that was also once legally discriminated against you would think you might have a bit more sympathy.

oh and how many race riots were you involved in? how many times did they turn the hoses on you? how many civil rights marches have you been too? how many of your friends have been beaten to death fro being who they are?

im not even gay but the attitude is pathetic.

^^^that's not how the black community sees it....it's not the same, and I'm inclined to agree

no its not the same. just as the civil rights movement wasnt the same as the women's rights movement. it is still a civil rights issue.

1. The Economy
2. Iraq
3. Global Community Relations
4. Energy
5. Education
6. Crime
Id put it somewhere between 7 and 10

its a good thing you were not making decisions back in the sixties then. because we had

1 a slowing economy
2 vietnam
3 ussr
4 cuba (n missile crisis)
5 and the cold war
6 a coming energy crisis
7 pollution
8 education
9 crime

and the space race was just heating up.

so should we have put off the civil rights movement until it was more convenient then? hmmmmn? till vietnam ended? how bout the cold war?

your attitude is straight up ignorant.

[deathfromabove]

I would guess most in this country would consider education a higher priority over gays marrying though.....

the thing is i agree. there are far more important issues. but gays are not actively seeking the right to marry as much as there are others (including our current president) that are actively seeking to stop them from being able to. some are proposing a constitutional amendment to prevent it.

with everything else going on in the world the uptight and right wing xtians are seeking to limit the rights of others. the gay community did not choose this time for the fight but rather is defending itself.

remember the vote in california took rights away from citizens who had already been given those rights. that is about as unamerican as it gets.

live and let live. what is so wrong with that?

[deathfromabove]

I would guess most in this country would consider education a higher priority over gays marrying though.....

the thing is i agree. there are far more important issues. but gays are not actively seeking the right to marry as much as there are others (including our current president) that are actively seeking to stop them from being able to. some are proposing a constitutional amendment to prevent it.

with everything else going on in the world the uptight and right wing xtians are seeking to limit the rights of others. the gay community did not choose this time for the fight but rather is defending itself.

remember the vote in california took rights away from citizens who had already been given those rights. that is about as unamerican as it gets.

live and let live. what is so wrong with that?

[deathfromabove]

I would guess most in this country would consider education a higher priority over gays marrying though.....

the thing is i agree. there are far more important issues. but gays are not actively seeking the right to marry as much as there are others (including our current president) that are actively seeking to stop them from being able to. some are proposing a constitutional amendment to prevent it.

with everything else going on in the world the uptight and right wing xtians are seeking to limit the rights of others. the gay community did not choose this time for the fight but rather is defending itself.

remember the vote in california took rights away from citizens who had already been given those rights. that is about as unamerican as it gets.

live and let live. what is so wrong with that?

[Kelly]

Education is the base issue that impacts all other issues...so saying that if you fix this or that, you can fix education is just not the case. Educations impacts the future of all the other issues, so no matter how far you go in fixing these other issues, if education is still a major problem as it is................(and it goes far beyond college enrollment, or high drop out rates) it that problem is not fixed...then you are destined to repeat other problems lead to economic, medical, etc problems...............................


Education is the key, and until its fixed.......we aren't opening any other doors....

[Kelly]

Education is the base issue that impacts all other issues...so saying that if you fix this or that, you can fix education is just not the case. Educations impacts the future of all the other issues, so no matter how far you go in fixing these other issues, if education is still a major problem as it is................(and it goes far beyond college enrollment, or high drop out rates) it that problem is not fixed...then you are destined to repeat other problems lead to economic, medical, etc problems...............................


Education is the key, and until its fixed.......we aren't opening any other doors....

[Kelly]

Education is the base issue that impacts all other issues...so saying that if you fix this or that, you can fix education is just not the case. Educations impacts the future of all the other issues, so no matter how far you go in fixing these other issues, if education is still a major problem as it is................(and it goes far beyond college enrollment, or high drop out rates) it that problem is not fixed...then you are destined to repeat other problems lead to economic, medical, etc problems...............................


Education is the key, and until its fixed.......we aren't opening any other doors....

[CaptainClown]

Education needs a complete overhaul.

[CaptainClown]

Education needs a complete overhaul.

[CaptainClown]

Education needs a complete overhaul.

[Kelly]

Education needs a complete overhaul.


I don't think it needs a complete overhaul, but yes ALOT of work needs to be done.

[Kelly]

Education needs a complete overhaul.


I don't think it needs a complete overhaul, but yes ALOT of work needs to be done.

[Kelly]

Education needs a complete overhaul.


I don't think it needs a complete overhaul, but yes ALOT of work needs to be done.

[spideyboy_1111]

It's a daytime talk show, not a political issue show......as far as ellen is concerned

i can see her side fine, i mean shes had the public shun her before...

but she has alot of influence that i think she could do a little better with, hell at least come to one of the weekend rallies.

[spideyboy_1111]

It's a daytime talk show, not a political issue show......as far as ellen is concerned

i can see her side fine, i mean shes had the public shun her before...

but she has alot of influence that i think she could do a little better with, hell at least come to one of the weekend rallies.

[spideyboy_1111]

It's a daytime talk show, not a political issue show......as far as ellen is concerned

i can see her side fine, i mean shes had the public shun her before...

but she has alot of influence that i think she could do a little better with, hell at least come to one of the weekend rallies.

[CaptainClown]

I don't think it needs a complete overhaul, but yes ALOT of work needs to be done.
I don't know. I honestly feel so much of the education system is pointless tasks that don't emphasis actual education but just test scores.

[CaptainClown]

I don't think it needs a complete overhaul, but yes ALOT of work needs to be done.
I don't know. I honestly feel so much of the education system is pointless tasks that don't emphasis actual education but just test scores.

[CaptainClown]

I don't think it needs a complete overhaul, but yes ALOT of work needs to be done.
I don't know. I honestly feel so much of the education system is pointless tasks that don't emphasis actual education but just test scores.

[spideyboy_1111]

I was being serious Jag! :ikyn




Ellen discussed Prop 8 before the election and she has continually discusses her marriage. She broke down into tears when discussing Lawrence King's murder on live tv.

yes i'm aware, but i've been watching every show since the election and she's only mentioned things 2-3 times. she hasn't even mentioned anything in over a week. which is kinda like a slap in the face to me, esp when we just had the huge nationwide one. Personally she can not talk about it all she wants, but I think she should have at least one episode concentrated on it.

[spideyboy_1111]

I was being serious Jag! :ikyn




Ellen discussed Prop 8 before the election and she has continually discusses her marriage. She broke down into tears when discussing Lawrence King's murder on live tv.

yes i'm aware, but i've been watching every show since the election and she's only mentioned things 2-3 times. she hasn't even mentioned anything in over a week. which is kinda like a slap in the face to me, esp when we just had the huge nationwide one. Personally she can not talk about it all she wants, but I think she should have at least one episode concentrated on it.

[spideyboy_1111]

I was being serious Jag! :ikyn




Ellen discussed Prop 8 before the election and she has continually discusses her marriage. She broke down into tears when discussing Lawrence King's murder on live tv.

yes i'm aware, but i've been watching every show since the election and she's only mentioned things 2-3 times. she hasn't even mentioned anything in over a week. which is kinda like a slap in the face to me, esp when we just had the huge nationwide one. Personally she can not talk about it all she wants, but I think she should have at least one episode concentrated on it.

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't know. I honestly feel so much of the education system is pointless tasks that don't emphasis actual education but just test scores.

I went to a county school in the middle of nowhere ohio... I had a pretty good education, I don't honestly see what problems were facing. Now the only thing that does piss me off is schools fund more money to sports, then the arts. that pisses me off extremely. As an art major in college, through highschool i had a teacher who made frames for a living, and sat on his ass not teaching us a damn thing! He graded our drawings based upon how much they looked like the originals... he friggin taught us to COPY.

School in this day and age should have a good art department both visually and theater/singing/music wise, and should also do better with technology. More high schools should have web type classes then what they do. I hate how all the money seems to be funded into athletics. Not everyone is an athlete, why the hell do they get rewarded more with scholarships then the kid who can act or paint?

But honestly the stuff many of you have pointed out, such as drop out rates and things that "funding" can't fix, how exactly can we fix issues then? It's next to impossible to reach out to kids who don't want to be reached.

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't know. I honestly feel so much of the education system is pointless tasks that don't emphasis actual education but just test scores.

I went to a county school in the middle of nowhere ohio... I had a pretty good education, I don't honestly see what problems were facing. Now the only thing that does piss me off is schools fund more money to sports, then the arts. that pisses me off extremely. As an art major in college, through highschool i had a teacher who made frames for a living, and sat on his ass not teaching us a damn thing! He graded our drawings based upon how much they looked like the originals... he friggin taught us to COPY.

School in this day and age should have a good art department both visually and theater/singing/music wise, and should also do better with technology. More high schools should have web type classes then what they do. I hate how all the money seems to be funded into athletics. Not everyone is an athlete, why the hell do they get rewarded more with scholarships then the kid who can act or paint?

But honestly the stuff many of you have pointed out, such as drop out rates and things that "funding" can't fix, how exactly can we fix issues then? It's next to impossible to reach out to kids who don't want to be reached.

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't know. I honestly feel so much of the education system is pointless tasks that don't emphasis actual education but just test scores.

I went to a county school in the middle of nowhere ohio... I had a pretty good education, I don't honestly see what problems were facing. Now the only thing that does piss me off is schools fund more money to sports, then the arts. that pisses me off extremely. As an art major in college, through highschool i had a teacher who made frames for a living, and sat on his ass not teaching us a damn thing! He graded our drawings based upon how much they looked like the originals... he friggin taught us to COPY.

School in this day and age should have a good art department both visually and theater/singing/music wise, and should also do better with technology. More high schools should have web type classes then what they do. I hate how all the money seems to be funded into athletics. Not everyone is an athlete, why the hell do they get rewarded more with scholarships then the kid who can act or paint?

But honestly the stuff many of you have pointed out, such as drop out rates and things that "funding" can't fix, how exactly can we fix issues then? It's next to impossible to reach out to kids who don't want to be reached.

[Kelly]

I don't know. I honestly feel so much of the education system is pointless tasks that don't emphasis actual education but just test scores.


But that is not all that education is....I agree, holding teacher's accountable for teaching what they should should not be a test.....which is truly what these tests are about.....

But the higher standards to hiring teachers, and other parts of "qualified teachers" of NCLB should not be changed, and could actually be strengthened.

[Kelly]

I don't know. I honestly feel so much of the education system is pointless tasks that don't emphasis actual education but just test scores.


But that is not all that education is....I agree, holding teacher's accountable for teaching what they should should not be a test.....which is truly what these tests are about.....

But the higher standards to hiring teachers, and other parts of "qualified teachers" of NCLB should not be changed, and could actually be strengthened.

[Kelly]

I don't know. I honestly feel so much of the education system is pointless tasks that don't emphasis actual education but just test scores.


But that is not all that education is....I agree, holding teacher's accountable for teaching what they should should not be a test.....which is truly what these tests are about.....

But the higher standards to hiring teachers, and other parts of "qualified teachers" of NCLB should not be changed, and could actually be strengthened.

[Kelly]

i can see her side fine, i mean shes had the public shun her before...

but she has alot of influence that i think she could do a little better with, hell at least come to one of the weekend rallies.


I think she is doing far more by being "herself" who happens to be gay. Just as I can be myself, who happens to be heterosexual.....I can be myself, who happens to be a woman......

I don't know that she wants people to see her as "Ellen, the gay activist"....she wants them to see her as "Ellen", like her for being herself....and realizing, being gay is not a dirty word, but simply who she is. I'm not Kelly, a heterosexual woman. I'm Kelly.

[Kelly]

i can see her side fine, i mean shes had the public shun her before...

but she has alot of influence that i think she could do a little better with, hell at least come to one of the weekend rallies.


I think she is doing far more by being "herself" who happens to be gay. Just as I can be myself, who happens to be heterosexual.....I can be myself, who happens to be a woman......

I don't know that she wants people to see her as "Ellen, the gay activist"....she wants them to see her as "Ellen", like her for being herself....and realizing, being gay is not a dirty word, but simply who she is. I'm not Kelly, a heterosexual woman. I'm Kelly.

[Kelly]

i can see her side fine, i mean shes had the public shun her before...

but she has alot of influence that i think she could do a little better with, hell at least come to one of the weekend rallies.


I think she is doing far more by being "herself" who happens to be gay. Just as I can be myself, who happens to be heterosexual.....I can be myself, who happens to be a woman......

I don't know that she wants people to see her as "Ellen, the gay activist"....she wants them to see her as "Ellen", like her for being herself....and realizing, being gay is not a dirty word, but simply who she is. I'm not Kelly, a heterosexual woman. I'm Kelly.

[Kelly]

I went to a county school in the middle of nowhere ohio... I had a pretty good education, I don't honestly see what problems were facing. Now the only thing that does piss me off is schools fund more money to sports, then the arts. that pisses me off extremely. As an art major in college, through highschool i had a teacher who made frames for a living, and sat on his ass not teaching us a damn thing! He graded our drawings based upon how much they looked like the originals... he friggin taught us to COPY.

School in this day and age should have a good art department both visually and theater/singing/music wise, and should also do better with technology. More high schools should have web type classes then what they do. I hate how all the money seems to be funded into athletics. Not everyone is an athlete, why the hell do they get rewarded more with scholarships then the kid who can act or paint?

But honestly the stuff many of you have pointed out, such as drop out rates and things that "funding" can't fix, how exactly can we fix issues then? It's next to impossible to reach out to kids who don't want to be reached.


I agree, the arts are under funded......

But the reason that there are more scholarships out there is for the simple reason that "sports brings in the money for universities....." The underfunding of arts for some reason is found more in the Northeastern states, than the Southern states....not sure why that is the case, but it is...............

[Kelly]

I went to a county school in the middle of nowhere ohio... I had a pretty good education, I don't honestly see what problems were facing. Now the only thing that does piss me off is schools fund more money to sports, then the arts. that pisses me off extremely. As an art major in college, through highschool i had a teacher who made frames for a living, and sat on his ass not teaching us a damn thing! He graded our drawings based upon how much they looked like the originals... he friggin taught us to COPY.

School in this day and age should have a good art department both visually and theater/singing/music wise, and should also do better with technology. More high schools should have web type classes then what they do. I hate how all the money seems to be funded into athletics. Not everyone is an athlete, why the hell do they get rewarded more with scholarships then the kid who can act or paint?

But honestly the stuff many of you have pointed out, such as drop out rates and things that "funding" can't fix, how exactly can we fix issues then? It's next to impossible to reach out to kids who don't want to be reached.


I agree, the arts are under funded......

But the reason that there are more scholarships out there is for the simple reason that "sports brings in the money for universities....." The underfunding of arts for some reason is found more in the Northeastern states, than the Southern states....not sure why that is the case, but it is...............

[Kelly]

I went to a county school in the middle of nowhere ohio... I had a pretty good education, I don't honestly see what problems were facing. Now the only thing that does piss me off is schools fund more money to sports, then the arts. that pisses me off extremely. As an art major in college, through highschool i had a teacher who made frames for a living, and sat on his ass not teaching us a damn thing! He graded our drawings based upon how much they looked like the originals... he friggin taught us to COPY.

School in this day and age should have a good art department both visually and theater/singing/music wise, and should also do better with technology. More high schools should have web type classes then what they do. I hate how all the money seems to be funded into athletics. Not everyone is an athlete, why the hell do they get rewarded more with scholarships then the kid who can act or paint?

But honestly the stuff many of you have pointed out, such as drop out rates and things that "funding" can't fix, how exactly can we fix issues then? It's next to impossible to reach out to kids who don't want to be reached.


I agree, the arts are under funded......

But the reason that there are more scholarships out there is for the simple reason that "sports brings in the money for universities....." The underfunding of arts for some reason is found more in the Northeastern states, than the Southern states....not sure why that is the case, but it is...............

[BlackLantern]

well not every school gets proper funding...schools in the affluent communities have more funding and better facilities...case in point...in one town in CT, the local high school has up to date PCs, current textbooks, and even a small tv production facility for the schools tv station....drive 25 minutes down the road to a bigger city like New Haven or Bridgeport and the classes are overcrowded, the kids are using textbooks more than a decade old, and have security guards walking the halls....

[BlackLantern]

well not every school gets proper funding...schools in the affluent communities have more funding and better facilities...case in point...in one town in CT, the local high school has up to date PCs, current textbooks, and even a small tv production facility for the schools tv station....drive 25 minutes down the road to a bigger city like New Haven or Bridgeport and the classes are overcrowded, the kids are using textbooks more than a decade old, and have security guards walking the halls....

[BlackLantern]

well not every school gets proper funding...schools in the affluent communities have more funding and better facilities...case in point...in one town in CT, the local high school has up to date PCs, current textbooks, and even a small tv production facility for the schools tv station....drive 25 minutes down the road to a bigger city like New Haven or Bridgeport and the classes are overcrowded, the kids are using textbooks more than a decade old, and have security guards walking the halls....

[CaptainClown]

I went to a county school in the middle of nowhere ohio... I had a pretty good education, I don't honestly see what problems were facing. Now the only thing that does piss me off is schools fund more money to sports, then the arts. that pisses me off extremely. As an art major in college, through highschool i had a teacher who made frames for a living, and sat on his ass not teaching us a damn thing! He graded our drawings based upon how much they looked like the originals... he friggin taught us to COPY.

School in this day and age should have a good art department both visually and theater/singing/music wise, and should also do better with technology. More high schools should have web type classes then what they do. I hate how all the money seems to be funded into athletics. Not everyone is an athlete, why the hell do they get rewarded more with scholarships then the kid who can act or paint?

But honestly the stuff many of you have pointed out, such as drop out rates and things that "funding" can't fix, how exactly can we fix issues then? It's next to impossible to reach out to kids who don't want to be reached.
Well the school I went to was exceptional however the public schools in the area were just awful. They are quite literally day cares for teens. Teachers have no incentive to teach students who don't want to learn and fear for their life from these hoodlums.
The way to fix this system is to privatize the school systems where quality is favored over quantity. Teachers as well as students need to want to go to school and making it mandatory doesn't help at all either. Just brings a bunch of angry stupid teens to class.
But that is not all that education is....I agree, holding teacher's accountable for teaching what they should should not be a test.....which is truly what these tests are about.....

But the higher standards to hiring teachers, and other parts of "qualified teachers" of NCLB should not be changed, and could actually be strengthened.
No, but that is one of the major problems. Hell the SAT and ACT just measure how well you can take a test, and uses that to asses how you would function in College. A good education system would acknowledge and encourage the different fields in education rather then trying to round off everybody. Qualified teachers should be encouraged though I agree.

[CaptainClown]

I went to a county school in the middle of nowhere ohio... I had a pretty good education, I don't honestly see what problems were facing. Now the only thing that does piss me off is schools fund more money to sports, then the arts. that pisses me off extremely. As an art major in college, through highschool i had a teacher who made frames for a living, and sat on his ass not teaching us a damn thing! He graded our drawings based upon how much they looked like the originals... he friggin taught us to COPY.

School in this day and age should have a good art department both visually and theater/singing/music wise, and should also do better with technology. More high schools should have web type classes then what they do. I hate how all the money seems to be funded into athletics. Not everyone is an athlete, why the hell do they get rewarded more with scholarships then the kid who can act or paint?

But honestly the stuff many of you have pointed out, such as drop out rates and things that "funding" can't fix, how exactly can we fix issues then? It's next to impossible to reach out to kids who don't want to be reached.
Well the school I went to was exceptional however the public schools in the area were just awful. They are quite literally day cares for teens. Teachers have no incentive to teach students who don't want to learn and fear for their life from these hoodlums.
The way to fix this system is to privatize the school systems where quality is favored over quantity. Teachers as well as students need to want to go to school and making it mandatory doesn't help at all either. Just brings a bunch of angry stupid teens to class.
But that is not all that education is....I agree, holding teacher's accountable for teaching what they should should not be a test.....which is truly what these tests are about.....

But the higher standards to hiring teachers, and other parts of "qualified teachers" of NCLB should not be changed, and could actually be strengthened.
No, but that is one of the major problems. Hell the SAT and ACT just measure how well you can take a test, and uses that to asses how you would function in College. A good education system would acknowledge and encourage the different fields in education rather then trying to round off everybody. Qualified teachers should be encouraged though I agree.

[CaptainClown]

I went to a county school in the middle of nowhere ohio... I had a pretty good education, I don't honestly see what problems were facing. Now the only thing that does piss me off is schools fund more money to sports, then the arts. that pisses me off extremely. As an art major in college, through highschool i had a teacher who made frames for a living, and sat on his ass not teaching us a damn thing! He graded our drawings based upon how much they looked like the originals... he friggin taught us to COPY.

School in this day and age should have a good art department both visually and theater/singing/music wise, and should also do better with technology. More high schools should have web type classes then what they do. I hate how all the money seems to be funded into athletics. Not everyone is an athlete, why the hell do they get rewarded more with scholarships then the kid who can act or paint?

But honestly the stuff many of you have pointed out, such as drop out rates and things that "funding" can't fix, how exactly can we fix issues then? It's next to impossible to reach out to kids who don't want to be reached.
Well the school I went to was exceptional however the public schools in the area were just awful. They are quite literally day cares for teens. Teachers have no incentive to teach students who don't want to learn and fear for their life from these hoodlums.
The way to fix this system is to privatize the school systems where quality is favored over quantity. Teachers as well as students need to want to go to school and making it mandatory doesn't help at all either. Just brings a bunch of angry stupid teens to class.
But that is not all that education is....I agree, holding teacher's accountable for teaching what they should should not be a test.....which is truly what these tests are about.....

But the higher standards to hiring teachers, and other parts of "qualified teachers" of NCLB should not be changed, and could actually be strengthened.
No, but that is one of the major problems. Hell the SAT and ACT just measure how well you can take a test, and uses that to asses how you would function in College. A good education system would acknowledge and encourage the different fields in education rather then trying to round off everybody. Qualified teachers should be encouraged though I agree.

[CaptainClown]

well not every school gets proper funding...schools in the affluent communities have more funding and better facilities...case in point...in one town in CT, the local high school has up to date PCs, current textbooks, and even a small tv production facility for the schools tv station....drive 25 minutes down the road to a bigger city like New Haven or Bridgeport and the classes are overcrowded, the kids are using textbooks more than a decade old, and have security guards walking the halls....
seriously, it is all because of districting in which richer areas fund schools making them higher quality rather then spreading it across the other schools that do need it.

[CaptainClown]

well not every school gets proper funding...schools in the affluent communities have more funding and better facilities...case in point...in one town in CT, the local high school has up to date PCs, current textbooks, and even a small tv production facility for the schools tv station....drive 25 minutes down the road to a bigger city like New Haven or Bridgeport and the classes are overcrowded, the kids are using textbooks more than a decade old, and have security guards walking the halls....
seriously, it is all because of districting in which richer areas fund schools making them higher quality rather then spreading it across the other schools that do need it.

[CaptainClown]

well not every school gets proper funding...schools in the affluent communities have more funding and better facilities...case in point...in one town in CT, the local high school has up to date PCs, current textbooks, and even a small tv production facility for the schools tv station....drive 25 minutes down the road to a bigger city like New Haven or Bridgeport and the classes are overcrowded, the kids are using textbooks more than a decade old, and have security guards walking the halls....
seriously, it is all because of districting in which richer areas fund schools making them higher quality rather then spreading it across the other schools that do need it.

[spideyboy_1111]

Gay marriage foes threaten to recall California Supreme Court justices
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/11/gay-marriage-fo.html


Last week, the aggressive tactics of Prop. 8 opponents -- street protests, boycotts of business -- made headlines. This week, it appears that backers of the ban on gay marriage are the ones making threats. Yes on 8 forces are talking about a recall against members of the California Supreme Court if they throw out the measure.

To some, the recall talk marks another increase in the post-election battle and a response to the No on 8 protests:

"This push-back in the last two weeks has actually mobilized the Yes on 8 people," said the Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. If the California Supreme Court were to overturn Proposition 8, "you will see a mobilized group like you have never seen in the state of California." Rodriguez said in an interview Tuesday that some religious leaders are discussing a potential recall of Supreme Court justices. He expects the Supreme Court to overturn Proposition 8, and if that happens, "there are grounds for a recall. We saw that with Gray Davis," he said. "We have an oligarchy, an oligarchy in judges' role in the state of California."

Remember the Gray Davis recall? Well, one of the figures behind it thinks a Prop. 8 recall effort if the justices toss the measure out is a real possibility. According to the San Diego Union-Tribune:

If that happens, watch out for a "barn-burner of an election -- the biggest thing this state has ever seen," says recall election guru Ted Costa. Costa says he's already been contacted by some of the folks who would seek to recall Ronald George, Joyce Kennard, Kathryn Werdegar and Carlos Moreno if Prop. 8 is scrapped. He thinks it's premature and risky because talk of a recall "would just (bleep) off the judges." Costa also doesn't sound like he's too thrilled about such a recall, saying it wouldn't be "healthy." Citing all the financial turmoil in California, he said, "If someone's going to do some recalling, that should be the focus."

When it comes to judicial recalls, one woman's name says it all. And Jon Fleischman utters it: "No government official is immune from the voters’ will, whether they be in the executive, legislative or, yes, even in the judicial branch. Remember Rose Bird?"

-- Shelby Grad


sorry but that's f'd up... "you don't conform to us, so if you don't agree were gonna try to kick you out" f'n retards.

[spideyboy_1111]

Gay marriage foes threaten to recall California Supreme Court justices
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/11/gay-marriage-fo.html


Last week, the aggressive tactics of Prop. 8 opponents -- street protests, boycotts of business -- made headlines. This week, it appears that backers of the ban on gay marriage are the ones making threats. Yes on 8 forces are talking about a recall against members of the California Supreme Court if they throw out the measure.

To some, the recall talk marks another increase in the post-election battle and a response to the No on 8 protests:

"This push-back in the last two weeks has actually mobilized the Yes on 8 people," said the Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. If the California Supreme Court were to overturn Proposition 8, "you will see a mobilized group like you have never seen in the state of California." Rodriguez said in an interview Tuesday that some religious leaders are discussing a potential recall of Supreme Court justices. He expects the Supreme Court to overturn Proposition 8, and if that happens, "there are grounds for a recall. We saw that with Gray Davis," he said. "We have an oligarchy, an oligarchy in judges' role in the state of California."

Remember the Gray Davis recall? Well, one of the figures behind it thinks a Prop. 8 recall effort if the justices toss the measure out is a real possibility. According to the San Diego Union-Tribune:

If that happens, watch out for a "barn-burner of an election -- the biggest thing this state has ever seen," says recall election guru Ted Costa. Costa says he's already been contacted by some of the folks who would seek to recall Ronald George, Joyce Kennard, Kathryn Werdegar and Carlos Moreno if Prop. 8 is scrapped. He thinks it's premature and risky because talk of a recall "would just (bleep) off the judges." Costa also doesn't sound like he's too thrilled about such a recall, saying it wouldn't be "healthy." Citing all the financial turmoil in California, he said, "If someone's going to do some recalling, that should be the focus."

When it comes to judicial recalls, one woman's name says it all. And Jon Fleischman utters it: "No government official is immune from the voters’ will, whether they be in the executive, legislative or, yes, even in the judicial branch. Remember Rose Bird?"

-- Shelby Grad


sorry but that's f'd up... "you don't conform to us, so if you don't agree were gonna try to kick you out" f'n retards.

[spideyboy_1111]

Gay marriage foes threaten to recall California Supreme Court justices
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/11/gay-marriage-fo.html


Last week, the aggressive tactics of Prop. 8 opponents -- street protests, boycotts of business -- made headlines. This week, it appears that backers of the ban on gay marriage are the ones making threats. Yes on 8 forces are talking about a recall against members of the California Supreme Court if they throw out the measure.

To some, the recall talk marks another increase in the post-election battle and a response to the No on 8 protests:

"This push-back in the last two weeks has actually mobilized the Yes on 8 people," said the Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. If the California Supreme Court were to overturn Proposition 8, "you will see a mobilized group like you have never seen in the state of California." Rodriguez said in an interview Tuesday that some religious leaders are discussing a potential recall of Supreme Court justices. He expects the Supreme Court to overturn Proposition 8, and if that happens, "there are grounds for a recall. We saw that with Gray Davis," he said. "We have an oligarchy, an oligarchy in judges' role in the state of California."

Remember the Gray Davis recall? Well, one of the figures behind it thinks a Prop. 8 recall effort if the justices toss the measure out is a real possibility. According to the San Diego Union-Tribune:

If that happens, watch out for a "barn-burner of an election -- the biggest thing this state has ever seen," says recall election guru Ted Costa. Costa says he's already been contacted by some of the folks who would seek to recall Ronald George, Joyce Kennard, Kathryn Werdegar and Carlos Moreno if Prop. 8 is scrapped. He thinks it's premature and risky because talk of a recall "would just (bleep) off the judges." Costa also doesn't sound like he's too thrilled about such a recall, saying it wouldn't be "healthy." Citing all the financial turmoil in California, he said, "If someone's going to do some recalling, that should be the focus."

When it comes to judicial recalls, one woman's name says it all. And Jon Fleischman utters it: "No government official is immune from the voters’ will, whether they be in the executive, legislative or, yes, even in the judicial branch. Remember Rose Bird?"

-- Shelby Grad


sorry but that's f'd up... "you don't conform to us, so if you don't agree were gonna try to kick you out" f'n retards.

[spideyboy_1111]

I think she is doing far more by being "herself" who happens to be gay. Just as I can be myself, who happens to be heterosexual.....I can be myself, who happens to be a woman......

I don't know that she wants people to see her as "Ellen, the gay activist"....she wants them to see her as "Ellen", like her for being herself....and realizing, being gay is not a dirty word, but simply who she is. I'm not Kelly, a heterosexual woman. I'm Kelly.

and your right, but we do need a high power holding gay person to come out and take charge. So many people are unfocused with this... we need our own MLK type person in this day and age.

[spideyboy_1111]

I think she is doing far more by being "herself" who happens to be gay. Just as I can be myself, who happens to be heterosexual.....I can be myself, who happens to be a woman......

I don't know that she wants people to see her as "Ellen, the gay activist"....she wants them to see her as "Ellen", like her for being herself....and realizing, being gay is not a dirty word, but simply who she is. I'm not Kelly, a heterosexual woman. I'm Kelly.

and your right, but we do need a high power holding gay person to come out and take charge. So many people are unfocused with this... we need our own MLK type person in this day and age.

[spideyboy_1111]

I think she is doing far more by being "herself" who happens to be gay. Just as I can be myself, who happens to be heterosexual.....I can be myself, who happens to be a woman......

I don't know that she wants people to see her as "Ellen, the gay activist"....she wants them to see her as "Ellen", like her for being herself....and realizing, being gay is not a dirty word, but simply who she is. I'm not Kelly, a heterosexual woman. I'm Kelly.

and your right, but we do need a high power holding gay person to come out and take charge. So many people are unfocused with this... we need our own MLK type person in this day and age.

[CaptainClown]

they are desperate. Pro-8 people are not going to go down quietly. They are going to go kicking and screaming, biting and clawing, spiting and cursing the whole way down. Even when they are down they will still keep it up for a couple years.

[CaptainClown]

they are desperate. Pro-8 people are not going to go down quietly. They are going to go kicking and screaming, biting and clawing, spiting and cursing the whole way down. Even when they are down they will still keep it up for a couple years.

[CaptainClown]

they are desperate. Pro-8 people are not going to go down quietly. They are going to go kicking and screaming, biting and clawing, spiting and cursing the whole way down. Even when they are down they will still keep it up for a couple years.

[spideyboy_1111]

seriously, it is all because of districting in which richer areas fund schools making them higher quality rather then spreading it across the other schools that do need it.

agrees, now one thing i do find interesting, out here in cali alot of kids grow up with things like taco bell in there school... now thats a double edged sword having fast food every day for health, but... im sure that brings in alot of funding for the school too.

[spideyboy_1111]

seriously, it is all because of districting in which richer areas fund schools making them higher quality rather then spreading it across the other schools that do need it.

agrees, now one thing i do find interesting, out here in cali alot of kids grow up with things like taco bell in there school... now thats a double edged sword having fast food every day for health, but... im sure that brings in alot of funding for the school too.

[spideyboy_1111]

seriously, it is all because of districting in which richer areas fund schools making them higher quality rather then spreading it across the other schools that do need it.

agrees, now one thing i do find interesting, out here in cali alot of kids grow up with things like taco bell in there school... now thats a double edged sword having fast food every day for health, but... im sure that brings in alot of funding for the school too.

[spideyboy_1111]

they are desperate. Pro-8 people are not going to go down quietly. They are going to go kicking and screaming, biting and clawing, spiting and cursing the whole way down. Even when they are down they will still keep it up for a couple years.

mmmhmmmm i just wish they saw how pathetically scared they come off

[spideyboy_1111]

they are desperate. Pro-8 people are not going to go down quietly. They are going to go kicking and screaming, biting and clawing, spiting and cursing the whole way down. Even when they are down they will still keep it up for a couple years.

mmmhmmmm i just wish they saw how pathetically scared they come off

[spideyboy_1111]

they are desperate. Pro-8 people are not going to go down quietly. They are going to go kicking and screaming, biting and clawing, spiting and cursing the whole way down. Even when they are down they will still keep it up for a couple years.

mmmhmmmm i just wish they saw how pathetically scared they come off

[CaptainClown]

agrees, now one thing i do find interesting, out here in cali alot of kids grow up with things like taco bell in there school... now thats a double edged sword having fast food every day for health, but... im sure that brings in alot of funding for the school too.Ya, I never had that but I know of schools that did. I think Starbucks also (shrug) people here are fat.

[CaptainClown]

agrees, now one thing i do find interesting, out here in cali alot of kids grow up with things like taco bell in there school... now thats a double edged sword having fast food every day for health, but... im sure that brings in alot of funding for the school too.Ya, I never had that but I know of schools that did. I think Starbucks also (shrug) people here are fat.

[CaptainClown]

agrees, now one thing i do find interesting, out here in cali alot of kids grow up with things like taco bell in there school... now thats a double edged sword having fast food every day for health, but... im sure that brings in alot of funding for the school too.Ya, I never had that but I know of schools that did. I think Starbucks also (shrug) people here are fat.

[spideyboy_1111]

Ya, I never had that but I know of schools that did. I think Starbucks also (shrug) people here are fat.

yeah, it's wierd, im sure it brings in alot of money though.


all i can say is i def had a couple amazing teachers growing up. Though i always liked the younger ones better, the older ones, well a few, seemed to never have conformed to new ways of teaching, and it showed. They just didn't connect with the kids enough.

[spideyboy_1111]

Ya, I never had that but I know of schools that did. I think Starbucks also (shrug) people here are fat.

yeah, it's wierd, im sure it brings in alot of money though.


all i can say is i def had a couple amazing teachers growing up. Though i always liked the younger ones better, the older ones, well a few, seemed to never have conformed to new ways of teaching, and it showed. They just didn't connect with the kids enough.

[spideyboy_1111]

Ya, I never had that but I know of schools that did. I think Starbucks also (shrug) people here are fat.

yeah, it's wierd, im sure it brings in alot of money though.


all i can say is i def had a couple amazing teachers growing up. Though i always liked the younger ones better, the older ones, well a few, seemed to never have conformed to new ways of teaching, and it showed. They just didn't connect with the kids enough.

[spideyboy_1111]

so aparently doctor phil is having a prop 8 episode tomorrow, should be interesting.

[spideyboy_1111]

so aparently doctor phil is having a prop 8 episode tomorrow, should be interesting.

[spideyboy_1111]

so aparently doctor phil is having a prop 8 episode tomorrow, should be interesting.

[SuperT]

And I'm sorry but what exactly is wrong with comparing it to the civil rights movement?

Sorry, but to me comparing something like this to the African-American Civil Rights movement of the 60's is a bit of a stretch.

[SuperT]

And I'm sorry but what exactly is wrong with comparing it to the civil rights movement?

Sorry, but to me comparing something like this to the African-American Civil Rights movement of the 60's is a bit of a stretch.

[SuperT]

And I'm sorry but what exactly is wrong with comparing it to the civil rights movement?

Sorry, but to me comparing something like this to the African-American Civil Rights movement of the 60's is a bit of a stretch.

[BlackLantern]

I think Tyra did a gay marriage episode this week as well....

[BlackLantern]

I think Tyra did a gay marriage episode this week as well....

[BlackLantern]

I think Tyra did a gay marriage episode this week as well....

[deathfromabove]

I think Tyra did a gay marriage episode this week as well....

the family guy gay marriage episode was just on...

[deathfromabove]

I think Tyra did a gay marriage episode this week as well....

the family guy gay marriage episode was just on...

[deathfromabove]

I think Tyra did a gay marriage episode this week as well....

the family guy gay marriage episode was just on...

[Hotwire]

Sorry, but to me comparing something like this to the African-American Civil Rights movement of the 60's is a bit of a stretch.
Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

[Hotwire]

Sorry, but to me comparing something like this to the African-American Civil Rights movement of the 60's is a bit of a stretch.
Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

[Hotwire]

Sorry, but to me comparing something like this to the African-American Civil Rights movement of the 60's is a bit of a stretch.
Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

[deathfromabove]

Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

agreed.

[deathfromabove]

Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

agreed.

[deathfromabove]

Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

agreed.

[spideyboy_1111]

Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

agreed, in the simplest forms there very very much alike. How people can't see that is beyond me

[spideyboy_1111]

Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

agreed, in the simplest forms there very very much alike. How people can't see that is beyond me

[spideyboy_1111]

Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

agreed, in the simplest forms there very very much alike. How people can't see that is beyond me

[Joker]

Don't know if this has been posted in here yet but well, here it is if it hasnt...

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/local/article911491.ece


TAMPA — Seeking to capitalize on statewide passage of a gay marriage ban, a leading antigay-rights activist is setting his sights on same-sex domestic partnership benefits.

David Caton, executive director of the Florida Family Association, says he will seek a change to the Hillsborough County Charter in 2010 to pre-emptively ban same-sex benefits for county employees.

Efforts to recruit volunteers and collect signatures from voters to get the issue on the ballot will begin early next year, he said.

In interviews with the St. Petersburg Times and Miami Herald on Thursday, Caton sought to frame the issue as a fiscal, as much a moral, argument.

"We're going to use the momentum from the marriage amendment to speak to the fact that most people in this state don't want a recognition of that type of relationship," Caton said. "At this time of economic stress, our government should not be providing benefits to nonemployees on the basis on their sexual relationships."

Gay-rights activists said any such effort by Caton will only galvanize an already motivated bloc of Hillsborough County voters. Those voters have shown greater evidence of organization and hustle in rallying for candidates and causes they support.

"We've got a coalition now, and we've got people who will work very, very hard to ensure he is not successful," said Sally Phillips, president of the Hillsborough County Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender and Allied Democratic Caucus. "He'll have a fight on his hands."

In addition to passage of Amendment 2, Caton said he probably would not be pursuing the matter at this time if not for the election of openly gay County Commissioner Kevin Beckner, who won office Nov. 4. He cited strong turnout at Beckner's swearing-in Tuesday as evidence that his supporters will press him to pursue a gay-rights agenda.

"I think the heavy turnout for his swearing-in was more than just friendship; it was a politically motivated event," Caton said.

Beckner did not return a phone call seeking comment.

Hillsborough County does not offer domestic partnership benefits to employees, although the city of Tampa does. A change to the County Charter would not affect city employees.

The city's benefits, however, also figure in Caton's strategy.

Caton said he would seek to use the political momentum of a Hillsborough charter change to influence Tampa elections for City Council and mayor in 2011. With gay marriage bans getting passed in several states, he called same-sex domestic partner benefits the next frontier in the gay-rights battle.

"Domestic partnership will be the battlefield between the pro-family agenda and the gay-radical agenda,'' Caton said. "They're saying it,'' and he and other like-minded people are prepared to respond, he said.

Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio said Caton's efforts will not pressure the city to change its policies. A majority of City Council members have said they would not seek to end same-sex benefits.

"We are going to continue our domestic partner benefits," Iorio said. "It's the right thing to do."

Hillsborough County Commissioner Mark Sharpe said Caton is seeking to address a problem that doesn't exist. In the meantime, the county is facing major challenges, he said.

"My focus is going to be 100 percent on solving some weighty issues: job creation, transportation," Sharpe said. "I'm going to spend the next two years trying to figure out how to bring people together to address quality-of-life issues."

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z98/TheJoker138/6pyd20.gif

[Joker]

Don't know if this has been posted in here yet but well, here it is if it hasnt...

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/local/article911491.ece


TAMPA — Seeking to capitalize on statewide passage of a gay marriage ban, a leading antigay-rights activist is setting his sights on same-sex domestic partnership benefits.

David Caton, executive director of the Florida Family Association, says he will seek a change to the Hillsborough County Charter in 2010 to pre-emptively ban same-sex benefits for county employees.

Efforts to recruit volunteers and collect signatures from voters to get the issue on the ballot will begin early next year, he said.

In interviews with the St. Petersburg Times and Miami Herald on Thursday, Caton sought to frame the issue as a fiscal, as much a moral, argument.

"We're going to use the momentum from the marriage amendment to speak to the fact that most people in this state don't want a recognition of that type of relationship," Caton said. "At this time of economic stress, our government should not be providing benefits to nonemployees on the basis on their sexual relationships."

Gay-rights activists said any such effort by Caton will only galvanize an already motivated bloc of Hillsborough County voters. Those voters have shown greater evidence of organization and hustle in rallying for candidates and causes they support.

"We've got a coalition now, and we've got people who will work very, very hard to ensure he is not successful," said Sally Phillips, president of the Hillsborough County Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender and Allied Democratic Caucus. "He'll have a fight on his hands."

In addition to passage of Amendment 2, Caton said he probably would not be pursuing the matter at this time if not for the election of openly gay County Commissioner Kevin Beckner, who won office Nov. 4. He cited strong turnout at Beckner's swearing-in Tuesday as evidence that his supporters will press him to pursue a gay-rights agenda.

"I think the heavy turnout for his swearing-in was more than just friendship; it was a politically motivated event," Caton said.

Beckner did not return a phone call seeking comment.

Hillsborough County does not offer domestic partnership benefits to employees, although the city of Tampa does. A change to the County Charter would not affect city employees.

The city's benefits, however, also figure in Caton's strategy.

Caton said he would seek to use the political momentum of a Hillsborough charter change to influence Tampa elections for City Council and mayor in 2011. With gay marriage bans getting passed in several states, he called same-sex domestic partner benefits the next frontier in the gay-rights battle.

"Domestic partnership will be the battlefield between the pro-family agenda and the gay-radical agenda,'' Caton said. "They're saying it,'' and he and other like-minded people are prepared to respond, he said.

Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio said Caton's efforts will not pressure the city to change its policies. A majority of City Council members have said they would not seek to end same-sex benefits.

"We are going to continue our domestic partner benefits," Iorio said. "It's the right thing to do."

Hillsborough County Commissioner Mark Sharpe said Caton is seeking to address a problem that doesn't exist. In the meantime, the county is facing major challenges, he said.

"My focus is going to be 100 percent on solving some weighty issues: job creation, transportation," Sharpe said. "I'm going to spend the next two years trying to figure out how to bring people together to address quality-of-life issues."

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z98/TheJoker138/6pyd20.gif

[Joker]

Don't know if this has been posted in here yet but well, here it is if it hasnt...

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/local/article911491.ece


TAMPA — Seeking to capitalize on statewide passage of a gay marriage ban, a leading antigay-rights activist is setting his sights on same-sex domestic partnership benefits.

David Caton, executive director of the Florida Family Association, says he will seek a change to the Hillsborough County Charter in 2010 to pre-emptively ban same-sex benefits for county employees.

Efforts to recruit volunteers and collect signatures from voters to get the issue on the ballot will begin early next year, he said.

In interviews with the St. Petersburg Times and Miami Herald on Thursday, Caton sought to frame the issue as a fiscal, as much a moral, argument.

"We're going to use the momentum from the marriage amendment to speak to the fact that most people in this state don't want a recognition of that type of relationship," Caton said. "At this time of economic stress, our government should not be providing benefits to nonemployees on the basis on their sexual relationships."

Gay-rights activists said any such effort by Caton will only galvanize an already motivated bloc of Hillsborough County voters. Those voters have shown greater evidence of organization and hustle in rallying for candidates and causes they support.

"We've got a coalition now, and we've got people who will work very, very hard to ensure he is not successful," said Sally Phillips, president of the Hillsborough County Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender and Allied Democratic Caucus. "He'll have a fight on his hands."

In addition to passage of Amendment 2, Caton said he probably would not be pursuing the matter at this time if not for the election of openly gay County Commissioner Kevin Beckner, who won office Nov. 4. He cited strong turnout at Beckner's swearing-in Tuesday as evidence that his supporters will press him to pursue a gay-rights agenda.

"I think the heavy turnout for his swearing-in was more than just friendship; it was a politically motivated event," Caton said.

Beckner did not return a phone call seeking comment.

Hillsborough County does not offer domestic partnership benefits to employees, although the city of Tampa does. A change to the County Charter would not affect city employees.

The city's benefits, however, also figure in Caton's strategy.

Caton said he would seek to use the political momentum of a Hillsborough charter change to influence Tampa elections for City Council and mayor in 2011. With gay marriage bans getting passed in several states, he called same-sex domestic partner benefits the next frontier in the gay-rights battle.

"Domestic partnership will be the battlefield between the pro-family agenda and the gay-radical agenda,'' Caton said. "They're saying it,'' and he and other like-minded people are prepared to respond, he said.

Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio said Caton's efforts will not pressure the city to change its policies. A majority of City Council members have said they would not seek to end same-sex benefits.

"We are going to continue our domestic partner benefits," Iorio said. "It's the right thing to do."

Hillsborough County Commissioner Mark Sharpe said Caton is seeking to address a problem that doesn't exist. In the meantime, the county is facing major challenges, he said.

"My focus is going to be 100 percent on solving some weighty issues: job creation, transportation," Sharpe said. "I'm going to spend the next two years trying to figure out how to bring people together to address quality-of-life issues."

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z98/TheJoker138/6pyd20.gif

[Schlosser85]

"We're going to use the momentum from the marriage amendment to speak to the fact that most people in this state don't want a recognition of that type of relationship," Caton said. "At this time of economic stress, our government should not be providing benefits to nonemployees on the basis on their sexual relationships."



Yes, because they're purely sexual relationships :whatever:

It makes me sick how people like Caton talk about God and family and morals as they're going after complete strangers trying to deny them employment benefits. Yea, you keep shoveling that s*it.

God and family has NOTHING to do with the anti-gay agenda.

[Schlosser85]

"We're going to use the momentum from the marriage amendment to speak to the fact that most people in this state don't want a recognition of that type of relationship," Caton said. "At this time of economic stress, our government should not be providing benefits to nonemployees on the basis on their sexual relationships."



Yes, because they're purely sexual relationships :whatever:

It makes me sick how people like Caton talk about God and family and morals as they're going after complete strangers trying to deny them employment benefits. Yea, you keep shoveling that s*it.

God and family has NOTHING to do with the anti-gay agenda.

[Schlosser85]

"We're going to use the momentum from the marriage amendment to speak to the fact that most people in this state don't want a recognition of that type of relationship," Caton said. "At this time of economic stress, our government should not be providing benefits to nonemployees on the basis on their sexual relationships."



Yes, because they're purely sexual relationships :whatever:

It makes me sick how people like Caton talk about God and family and morals as they're going after complete strangers trying to deny them employment benefits. Yea, you keep shoveling that s*it.

God and family has NOTHING to do with the anti-gay agenda.

[Joker]

Yes, because they're purely sexual relationships :whatever:

It makes me sick how people like Caton talk about God and family and morals as they're going after complete strangers trying to deny them employment benefits. Yea, you keep shoveling that s*it.

God and family has NOTHING to do with the anti-gay agenda.

I like how I said it better. To reiterate...

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z98/TheJoker138/6pyd20.gif

[Joker]

Yes, because they're purely sexual relationships :whatever:

It makes me sick how people like Caton talk about God and family and morals as they're going after complete strangers trying to deny them employment benefits. Yea, you keep shoveling that s*it.

God and family has NOTHING to do with the anti-gay agenda.

I like how I said it better. To reiterate...

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z98/TheJoker138/6pyd20.gif

[Joker]

Yes, because they're purely sexual relationships :whatever:

It makes me sick how people like Caton talk about God and family and morals as they're going after complete strangers trying to deny them employment benefits. Yea, you keep shoveling that s*it.

God and family has NOTHING to do with the anti-gay agenda.

I like how I said it better. To reiterate...

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z98/TheJoker138/6pyd20.gif

[Red Mask]

I do worry that the economic crisis could create a misguided hardening of personal values. An affluent society usually could get away with more liberties, then the poor start to related things like homosexuality with decadence.

But I fail to see how restricting gay rights will stop real problems:

1. School violence
2. Drug abuse
3. Rape
4. Murder

Etc. Those haven't gone away no matter who's president.

[Red Mask]

I do worry that the economic crisis could create a misguided hardening of personal values. An affluent society usually could get away with more liberties, then the poor start to related things like homosexuality with decadence.

But I fail to see how restricting gay rights will stop real problems:

1. School violence
2. Drug abuse
3. Rape
4. Murder

Etc. Those haven't gone away no matter who's president.

[Red Mask]

I do worry that the economic crisis could create a misguided hardening of personal values. An affluent society usually could get away with more liberties, then the poor start to related things like homosexuality with decadence.

But I fail to see how restricting gay rights will stop real problems:

1. School violence
2. Drug abuse
3. Rape
4. Murder

Etc. Those haven't gone away no matter who's president.

[Schlosser85]

Homosexuals are rightfully completely equal to heterosexuals, so if the anti-gays are going to use the argument of not extending marriage benefits in troubled economic times (what a convenient excuse, just like the Bible), then by that logic no new marriages should be performed until the recession is over.

[Schlosser85]

Homosexuals are rightfully completely equal to heterosexuals, so if the anti-gays are going to use the argument of not extending marriage benefits in troubled economic times (what a convenient excuse, just like the Bible), then by that logic no new marriages should be performed until the recession is over.

[Schlosser85]

Homosexuals are rightfully completely equal to heterosexuals, so if the anti-gays are going to use the argument of not extending marriage benefits in troubled economic times (what a convenient excuse, just like the Bible), then by that logic no new marriages should be performed until the recession is over.

[Kelly]

agreed, in the simplest forms there very very much alike. How people can't see that is beyond me


Do you have your choice of schools to go to?
Can you drink out of the same water fountain as I do?
Can you eat in the restaurant of your choice, or own a restaurant that anyone will come into?
Can you get a job making as much as any other man?

Yes, there is a difference......

You want me to keep my respect of the discussion of this issue? Don't compare it to the Black Experience here in America.....it's no where near the same in ANY aspect of it........

[Kelly]

agreed, in the simplest forms there very very much alike. How people can't see that is beyond me


Do you have your choice of schools to go to?
Can you drink out of the same water fountain as I do?
Can you eat in the restaurant of your choice, or own a restaurant that anyone will come into?
Can you get a job making as much as any other man?

Yes, there is a difference......

You want me to keep my respect of the discussion of this issue? Don't compare it to the Black Experience here in America.....it's no where near the same in ANY aspect of it........

[Kelly]

agreed, in the simplest forms there very very much alike. How people can't see that is beyond me


Do you have your choice of schools to go to?
Can you drink out of the same water fountain as I do?
Can you eat in the restaurant of your choice, or own a restaurant that anyone will come into?
Can you get a job making as much as any other man?

Yes, there is a difference......

You want me to keep my respect of the discussion of this issue? Don't compare it to the Black Experience here in America.....it's no where near the same in ANY aspect of it........

[Charlie No-One]

He said in the simplest form. What you stated is not the issue in its simplest form.

[Charlie No-One]

He said in the simplest form. What you stated is not the issue in its simplest form.

[Charlie No-One]

He said in the simplest form. What you stated is not the issue in its simplest form.

[BlackLantern]

Looks pretty simple to me

[BlackLantern]

Looks pretty simple to me

[BlackLantern]

Looks pretty simple to me

[deathfromabove]

Do you have your choice of schools to go to?
Can you drink out of the same water fountain as I do?
Can you eat in the restaurant of your choice, or own a restaurant that anyone will come into?
Can you get a job making as much as any other man?

Yes, there is a difference......

You want me to keep my respect of the discussion of this issue? Don't compare it to the Black Experience here in America.....it's no where near the same in ANY aspect of it........

have you ever had to drink out of a seperate drinking fountian in your lifetime? ridiculous.

for the for most part all of the above no longer applies to you either sir. the country has come a long way. i dont see anyone saying its exactly the same thing but if calling this a civil rights issue is so offensive to you then thats your problem.

and there are many parallels between this and any other civil rights movement. but like i said the black civil rights experience was also different in many ways from the struggles that women had to overcome or that any other minority group has had to face. it doesnt change the basic fact that some are being denied equality.

[deathfromabove]

Do you have your choice of schools to go to?
Can you drink out of the same water fountain as I do?
Can you eat in the restaurant of your choice, or own a restaurant that anyone will come into?
Can you get a job making as much as any other man?

Yes, there is a difference......

You want me to keep my respect of the discussion of this issue? Don't compare it to the Black Experience here in America.....it's no where near the same in ANY aspect of it........

have you ever had to drink out of a seperate drinking fountian in your lifetime? ridiculous.

for the for most part all of the above no longer applies to you either sir. the country has come a long way. i dont see anyone saying its exactly the same thing but if calling this a civil rights issue is so offensive to you then thats your problem.

and there are many parallels between this and any other civil rights movement. but like i said the black civil rights experience was also different in many ways from the struggles that women had to overcome or that any other minority group has had to face. it doesnt change the basic fact that some are being denied equality.

[deathfromabove]

Do you have your choice of schools to go to?
Can you drink out of the same water fountain as I do?
Can you eat in the restaurant of your choice, or own a restaurant that anyone will come into?
Can you get a job making as much as any other man?

Yes, there is a difference......

You want me to keep my respect of the discussion of this issue? Don't compare it to the Black Experience here in America.....it's no where near the same in ANY aspect of it........

have you ever had to drink out of a seperate drinking fountian in your lifetime? ridiculous.

for the for most part all of the above no longer applies to you either sir. the country has come a long way. i dont see anyone saying its exactly the same thing but if calling this a civil rights issue is so offensive to you then thats your problem.

and there are many parallels between this and any other civil rights movement. but like i said the black civil rights experience was also different in many ways from the struggles that women had to overcome or that any other minority group has had to face. it doesnt change the basic fact that some are being denied equality.

[Timstuff]

Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

Has anyone considered that perhaps it's this kind of thinking that has driven the black community away from the gay rights movement? I'm sorry if I offend any of our gay or lesbian SHH! members with this, but suggesting that having to attend an inferior, over-crowded school and essentially have no future in the professional world is the equivalent to having to write "domestic partnership" on a legal document instead of "marriage" is not only absurd, but downright insulting to anyone who has had to experience racial segregation. Do gay people have to ride on the back of a bus while straight people sit up front, or use a small, dirty restroom while straight people had access to a big clean one? I could go on for paragraphs with this kind of rhetoric, but I think I've made my point, so you'll either agree with it or you won't. But please, if you want to discuss gay rights, keep in mind that every time you compare something as petty as civil unions vs. gay marriage to going to jail for having a child with someone outside your race, you are helping trivialize segregation.

[Timstuff]

Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

Has anyone considered that perhaps it's this kind of thinking that has driven the black community away from the gay rights movement? I'm sorry if I offend any of our gay or lesbian SHH! members with this, but suggesting that having to attend an inferior, over-crowded school and essentially have no future in the professional world is the equivalent to having to write "domestic partnership" on a legal document instead of "marriage" is not only absurd, but downright insulting to anyone who has had to experience racial segregation. Do gay people have to ride on the back of a bus while straight people sit up front, or use a small, dirty restroom while straight people had access to a big clean one? I could go on for paragraphs with this kind of rhetoric, but I think I've made my point, so you'll either agree with it or you won't. But please, if you want to discuss gay rights, keep in mind that every time you compare something as petty as civil unions vs. gay marriage to going to jail for having a child with someone outside your race, you are helping trivialize segregation.

[Timstuff]

Not really. The Jim Crowe laws were basicly "seperate, but equal." The gay marriage ban that allows for civil unions, is also, "seperate, but equal." In both cases, the majority was trying to take away or prevent the minority from having certain rights. Not much of a stretch at all.

Has anyone considered that perhaps it's this kind of thinking that has driven the black community away from the gay rights movement? I'm sorry if I offend any of our gay or lesbian SHH! members with this, but suggesting that having to attend an inferior, over-crowded school and essentially have no future in the professional world is the equivalent to having to write "domestic partnership" on a legal document instead of "marriage" is not only absurd, but downright insulting to anyone who has had to experience racial segregation. Do gay people have to ride on the back of a bus while straight people sit up front, or use a small, dirty restroom while straight people had access to a big clean one? I could go on for paragraphs with this kind of rhetoric, but I think I've made my point, so you'll either agree with it or you won't. But please, if you want to discuss gay rights, keep in mind that every time you compare something as petty as civil unions vs. gay marriage to going to jail for having a child with someone outside your race, you are helping trivialize segregation.

[Kelly]

have you ever had to drink out of a seperate drinking fountian in your lifetime? ridiculous.

for the for most part all of the above no longer applies to you either sir. the country has come a long way. i dont see anyone saying its exactly the same thing but if calling this a civil rights issue is so offensive to you then thats your problem.

and there are many parallels between this and any other civil rights movement. but like i said the black civil rights experience was also different in many ways from the struggles that women had to overcome or that any other minority group has had to face. it doesnt change the basic fact that some are being denied equality.

I've never had to drink from a seperate drinking fountain.....I'm white.....nor am I a "sir".

In my lifetime? Yes, a friend of mine (he is black) and I were driving through Pine Bluff, Arkansas just 10 years ago....we stopped at a small restaurant there and we were told that it would probably be smart to eat somewhere else. I wanted to stay.......my friend said no, and we moved on and ate at a Taco Bell in the next town. NOW, you can believe this incident or not, but the fact, and point is.........there are MANY on this very forum that can give you examples very similiar that have happened within the last few years.......you can, I'm sure give some similar stories as far as discrimination against someone who is gay.....I myself have seen that as well.......but the Gay Rights Movement does not have the history, nor will it ever have the history that the Civil Rights Movement has had...EVER.....WHY? Because the Civil Rights Movement paved a strong road for you to take.....I believe you have every right to take it....but don't weaken your movement by comparing it to something that it is not.m

The biggest difference between the Woman's Right's movement and the Civil Right's movement....and excuse me the Civil Rights movement as described by Martin Luther King was far more than a black movement......but the difference is in the fact that much of what you saw in the Civil Right's movement.....you saw on television.....much of what the women went through in the Women's Rights movement was behind closed doors.

But until your rights to the very basics of life are taken away.....no, there is no comparison....

[Kelly]

have you ever had to drink out of a seperate drinking fountian in your lifetime? ridiculous.

for the for most part all of the above no longer applies to you either sir. the country has come a long way. i dont see anyone saying its exactly the same thing but if calling this a civil rights issue is so offensive to you then thats your problem.

and there are many parallels between this and any other civil rights movement. but like i said the black civil rights experience was also different in many ways from the struggles that women had to overcome or that any other minority group has had to face. it doesnt change the basic fact that some are being denied equality.

I've never had to drink from a seperate drinking fountain.....I'm white.....nor am I a "sir".

In my lifetime? Yes, a friend of mine (he is black) and I were driving through Pine Bluff, Arkansas just 10 years ago....we stopped at a small restaurant there and we were told that it would probably be smart to eat somewhere else. I wanted to stay.......my friend said no, and we moved on and ate at a Taco Bell in the next town. NOW, you can believe this incident or not, but the fact, and point is.........there are MANY on this very forum that can give you examples very similiar that have happened within the last few years.......you can, I'm sure give some similar stories as far as discrimination against someone who is gay.....I myself have seen that as well.......but the Gay Rights Movement does not have the history, nor will it ever have the history that the Civil Rights Movement has had...EVER.....WHY? Because the Civil Rights Movement paved a strong road for you to take.....I believe you have every right to take it....but don't weaken your movement by comparing it to something that it is not.m

The biggest difference between the Woman's Right's movement and the Civil Right's movement....and excuse me the Civil Rights movement as described by Martin Luther King was far more than a black movement......but the difference is in the fact that much of what you saw in the Civil Right's movement.....you saw on television.....much of what the women went through in the Women's Rights movement was behind closed doors.

But until your rights to the very basics of life are taken away.....no, there is no comparison....

[Kelly]

have you ever had to drink out of a seperate drinking fountian in your lifetime? ridiculous.

for the for most part all of the above no longer applies to you either sir. the country has come a long way. i dont see anyone saying its exactly the same thing but if calling this a civil rights issue is so offensive to you then thats your problem.

and there are many parallels between this and any other civil rights movement. but like i said the black civil rights experience was also different in many ways from the struggles that women had to overcome or that any other minority group has had to face. it doesnt change the basic fact that some are being denied equality.

I've never had to drink from a seperate drinking fountain.....I'm white.....nor am I a "sir".

In my lifetime? Yes, a friend of mine (he is black) and I were driving through Pine Bluff, Arkansas just 10 years ago....we stopped at a small restaurant there and we were told that it would probably be smart to eat somewhere else. I wanted to stay.......my friend said no, and we moved on and ate at a Taco Bell in the next town. NOW, you can believe this incident or not, but the fact, and point is.........there are MANY on this very forum that can give you examples very similiar that have happened within the last few years.......you can, I'm sure give some similar stories as far as discrimination against someone who is gay.....I myself have seen that as well.......but the Gay Rights Movement does not have the history, nor will it ever have the history that the Civil Rights Movement has had...EVER.....WHY? Because the Civil Rights Movement paved a strong road for you to take.....I believe you have every right to take it....but don't weaken your movement by comparing it to something that it is not.m

The biggest difference between the Woman's Right's movement and the Civil Right's movement....and excuse me the Civil Rights movement as described by Martin Luther King was far more than a black movement......but the difference is in the fact that much of what you saw in the Civil Right's movement.....you saw on television.....much of what the women went through in the Women's Rights movement was behind closed doors.

But until your rights to the very basics of life are taken away.....no, there is no comparison....

[deathfromabove]

I've never had to drink from a seperate drinking fountain.....I'm white.....nor am I a "sir".

In my lifetime? Yes, a friend of mine (he is black) and I were driving through Pine Bluff, Arkansas just 10 years ago....we stopped at a small restaurant there and we were told that it would probably be smart to eat somewhere else. I wanted to stay.......my friend said no, and we moved on and ate at a Taco Bell in the next town. NOW, you can believe this incident or not, but the fact, and point is.........there are MANY on this very forum that can give you examples very similiar that have happened within the last few years.......you can, I'm sure give some similar stories as far as discrimination against someone who is gay.....I myself have seen that as well.......but the Gay Rights Movement does not have the history, nor will it ever have the history that the Civil Rights Movement has had...EVER.....WHY? Because the Civil Rights Movement paved a strong road for you to take.....I believe you have every right to take it....but don't weaken your movement by comparing it to something that it is not.m

The biggest difference between the Woman's Right's movement and the Civil Right's movement....and excuse me the Civil Rights movement as described by Martin Luther King was far more than a black movement......but the difference is in the fact that much of what you saw in the Civil Right's movement.....you saw on television.....much of what the women went through in the Women's Rights movement was behind closed doors.

But until your rights to the very basics of life are taken away.....no, there is no comparison....

no one is saying its the exact same thing but there is a comaprison. if you dont see that im sorry. thats kinda sad to me.

and i guess you are white girl. my apologies. and for the record i'm not gay either.

and i guess i consider the right to spend your life with the person of your choosing and have that recognized and legitimized like everyone else a basic right. (shrugs)

we can compare and contrast how bad different groups have had it but that is not the ****ing point is it? i can tell you about friends of mine who have been put in the hospital or the morgue for being gay (no im not kidding) but i wont do that. i think alot of folks on here are forgetting the struggles that the gay and lesbian community have also faced in the past and the kind of widespread and blind hatred they still face today. google the stonewall riots. listen to the vernacular of todays youth even. thats so gay. you ***got. no homo. whatever.

the point is right now, today, there are those in our society and our government that are seeking to prevent or take away the rights of others. that is the issue. yes the specifics may be different but right is right and wrong is wrong.

oh and look up the definition of civil rights. some seem to be having trouble with its meaning and application.

stop misreading and misinterpreting the point.

[deathfromabove]

I've never had to drink from a seperate drinking fountain.....I'm white.....nor am I a "sir".

In my lifetime? Yes, a friend of mine (he is black) and I were driving through Pine Bluff, Arkansas just 10 years ago....we stopped at a small restaurant there and we were told that it would probably be smart to eat somewhere else. I wanted to stay.......my friend said no, and we moved on and ate at a Taco Bell in the next town. NOW, you can believe this incident or not, but the fact, and point is.........there are MANY on this very forum that can give you examples very similiar that have happened within the last few years.......you can, I'm sure give some similar stories as far as discrimination against someone who is gay.....I myself have seen that as well.......but the Gay Rights Movement does not have the history, nor will it ever have the history that the Civil Rights Movement has had...EVER.....WHY? Because the Civil Rights Movement paved a strong road for you to take.....I believe you have every right to take it....but don't weaken your movement by comparing it to something that it is not.m

The biggest difference between the Woman's Right's movement and the Civil Right's movement....and excuse me the Civil Rights movement as described by Martin Luther King was far more than a black movement......but the difference is in the fact that much of what you saw in the Civil Right's movement.....you saw on television.....much of what the women went through in the Women's Rights movement was behind closed doors.

But until your rights to the very basics of life are taken away.....no, there is no comparison....

no one is saying its the exact same thing but there is a comaprison. if you dont see that im sorry. thats kinda sad to me.

and i guess you are white girl. my apologies. and for the record i'm not gay either.

and i guess i consider the right to spend your life with the person of your choosing and have that recognized and legitimized like everyone else a basic right. (shrugs)

we can compare and contrast how bad different groups have had it but that is not the ****ing point is it? i can tell you about friends of mine who have been put in the hospital or the morgue for being gay (no im not kidding) but i wont do that. i think alot of folks on here are forgetting the struggles that the gay and lesbian community have also faced in the past and the kind of widespread and blind hatred they still face today. google the stonewall riots. listen to the vernacular of todays youth even. thats so gay. you ***got. no homo. whatever.

the point is right now, today, there are those in our society and our government that are seeking to prevent or take away the rights of others. that is the issue. yes the specifics may be different but right is right and wrong is wrong.

oh and look up the definition of civil rights. some seem to be having trouble with its meaning and application.

stop misreading and misinterpreting the point.

[deathfromabove]

I've never had to drink from a seperate drinking fountain.....I'm white.....nor am I a "sir".

In my lifetime? Yes, a friend of mine (he is black) and I were driving through Pine Bluff, Arkansas just 10 years ago....we stopped at a small restaurant there and we were told that it would probably be smart to eat somewhere else. I wanted to stay.......my friend said no, and we moved on and ate at a Taco Bell in the next town. NOW, you can believe this incident or not, but the fact, and point is.........there are MANY on this very forum that can give you examples very similiar that have happened within the last few years.......you can, I'm sure give some similar stories as far as discrimination against someone who is gay.....I myself have seen that as well.......but the Gay Rights Movement does not have the history, nor will it ever have the history that the Civil Rights Movement has had...EVER.....WHY? Because the Civil Rights Movement paved a strong road for you to take.....I believe you have every right to take it....but don't weaken your movement by comparing it to something that it is not.m

The biggest difference between the Woman's Right's movement and the Civil Right's movement....and excuse me the Civil Rights movement as described by Martin Luther King was far more than a black movement......but the difference is in the fact that much of what you saw in the Civil Right's movement.....you saw on television.....much of what the women went through in the Women's Rights movement was behind closed doors.

But until your rights to the very basics of life are taken away.....no, there is no comparison....

no one is saying its the exact same thing but there is a comaprison. if you dont see that im sorry. thats kinda sad to me.

and i guess you are white girl. my apologies. and for the record i'm not gay either.

and i guess i consider the right to spend your life with the person of your choosing and have that recognized and legitimized like everyone else a basic right. (shrugs)

we can compare and contrast how bad different groups have had it but that is not the ****ing point is it? i can tell you about friends of mine who have been put in the hospital or the morgue for being gay (no im not kidding) but i wont do that. i think alot of folks on here are forgetting the struggles that the gay and lesbian community have also faced in the past and the kind of widespread and blind hatred they still face today. google the stonewall riots. listen to the vernacular of todays youth even. thats so gay. you ***got. no homo. whatever.

the point is right now, today, there are those in our society and our government that are seeking to prevent or take away the rights of others. that is the issue. yes the specifics may be different but right is right and wrong is wrong.

oh and look up the definition of civil rights. some seem to be having trouble with its meaning and application.

stop misreading and misinterpreting the point.

[Kelly]

no one is saying its the exact same thing but there is a comaprison. if you dont see that im sorry. thats kinda sad to me.

and i guess you are white girl. my apologies. and for the record i'm not gay either.

and i guess i consider the right to spend your life with the person of your choosing and have that recognized and legitimized like everyone else a basic right. (shrugs)

we can compare and contrast how bad different groups have had it but that is not the ****ing point is it? i can tell you about friends of mine who have been put in the hospital or the mourge for being gay (no im not kidding) but i wont do that. i think alot of folks on here are forgetting the struggles that the gay and lesbian community have also faced in the past. google the stonewall riots.

the point is right now, today, there are those in our society and our government that are seeking to prevent or take away the rights of others. that is the issue. yes the specifics may be different but right is right and wrong is wrong.

oh and look up the definition of civil rights. some seem to be having trouble with its meaning and application.

stop misreading and misinterpreting the point.

I have yet to say that gays do not deserve the simple right to marry and call it marriage and have the same rights as all married couples do.....not once. Nor, was I the one that compared the Civil Rights MOVEMENT to the Gay Rights MOVEMENT.....but the comparison WAS MADE, and THAT is what I took issue with.....and if the movements are continued to be compared, then I will continue to take issue with it. If the debate is simply "right or wrong" gays deserve to marry, then hell YES, they should have that right. Maybe that is what YOU are saying, but you are not the one that I was debating.......

[Kelly]

no one is saying its the exact same thing but there is a comaprison. if you dont see that im sorry. thats kinda sad to me.

and i guess you are white girl. my apologies. and for the record i'm not gay either.

and i guess i consider the right to spend your life with the person of your choosing and have that recognized and legitimized like everyone else a basic right. (shrugs)

we can compare and contrast how bad different groups have had it but that is not the ****ing point is it? i can tell you about friends of mine who have been put in the hospital or the mourge for being gay (no im not kidding) but i wont do that. i think alot of folks on here are forgetting the struggles that the gay and lesbian community have also faced in the past. google the stonewall riots.

the point is right now, today, there are those in our society and our government that are seeking to prevent or take away the rights of others. that is the issue. yes the specifics may be different but right is right and wrong is wrong.

oh and look up the definition of civil rights. some seem to be having trouble with its meaning and application.

stop misreading and misinterpreting the point.

I have yet to say that gays do not deserve the simple right to marry and call it marriage and have the same rights as all married couples do.....not once. Nor, was I the one that compared the Civil Rights MOVEMENT to the Gay Rights MOVEMENT.....but the comparison WAS MADE, and THAT is what I took issue with.....and if the movements are continued to be compared, then I will continue to take issue with it. If the debate is simply "right or wrong" gays deserve to marry, then hell YES, they should have that right. Maybe that is what YOU are saying, but you are not the one that I was debating.......

[Kelly]

no one is saying its the exact same thing but there is a comaprison. if you dont see that im sorry. thats kinda sad to me.

and i guess you are white girl. my apologies. and for the record i'm not gay either.

and i guess i consider the right to spend your life with the person of your choosing and have that recognized and legitimized like everyone else a basic right. (shrugs)

we can compare and contrast how bad different groups have had it but that is not the ****ing point is it? i can tell you about friends of mine who have been put in the hospital or the mourge for being gay (no im not kidding) but i wont do that. i think alot of folks on here are forgetting the struggles that the gay and lesbian community have also faced in the past. google the stonewall riots.

the point is right now, today, there are those in our society and our government that are seeking to prevent or take away the rights of others. that is the issue. yes the specifics may be different but right is right and wrong is wrong.

oh and look up the definition of civil rights. some seem to be having trouble with its meaning and application.

stop misreading and misinterpreting the point.

I have yet to say that gays do not deserve the simple right to marry and call it marriage and have the same rights as all married couples do.....not once. Nor, was I the one that compared the Civil Rights MOVEMENT to the Gay Rights MOVEMENT.....but the comparison WAS MADE, and THAT is what I took issue with.....and if the movements are continued to be compared, then I will continue to take issue with it. If the debate is simply "right or wrong" gays deserve to marry, then hell YES, they should have that right. Maybe that is what YOU are saying, but you are not the one that I was debating.......

[Timstuff]

Kel, I am definitely with you on that one. I don't mean to disrespect gays and lesbians, but just looking at the living conditions of most gays and lesbians in comparison to racial minorities, it's really hard for me to understand how people can so casually compare the two. Yeah, it's not fun being gay when you hear kids using homosexual slurs as insults and distasteful adjectives, but what is really not fun is growing up in an urban warzone because your school doesn't have any money to adequately educate you or your peers.

Another thing that needs to be remembered, is that to this day, discrimination does not affect gay people in the same way as black people. Blacks only earn an average of about $30,000 a year, with Hispanics earning $36,000 a year, in comparison to the $49,000 a year average of white people, and the $81,000 a year of gay people. The fact that gay people tend to live comfortably in the upper half of the middle class makes it a lot easier for many of them to live in safer, more stable neighborhoods, which means most of them will not experience street violence first-hand.

Of course violence against gays is a problem, and all we have to do is look through the news and see that. However, violence within and against minorities is an even bigger problem, and is showing no signs of going anywhere. While the gay community is out protesting against proposition 8, young children are dying in the streets of a city that's only a half hour from my house, and it's all because they were born into an economic ditch that there's very little hope of escaping.

I can understand that gay people get upset and frustrated by being thought of differently than straight people. But the fact of the matter is, equal rights has not yet given us racial equality, and to see so many gay people comparing their struggle to have legally recognized marriages instead of civil unions to the things that a 10 year old boy in New Haven (in Connecticut, a state that has gay marriage of all places!) has to go through just because of where he was born, when the vast majority of gay people live in economic comfort, doesn't seem rational to me. As an outsider looking in on both the gay and black communities, it really bothers me that even though my home stat is one of the richest in the country, the people there care more about establishing gay marriage than they do about fixing our inner city schools.

[Timstuff]

Kel, I am definitely with you on that one. I don't mean to disrespect gays and lesbians, but just looking at the living conditions of most gays and lesbians in comparison to racial minorities, it's really hard for me to understand how people can so casually compare the two. Yeah, it's not fun being gay when you hear kids using homosexual slurs as insults and distasteful adjectives, but what is really not fun is growing up in an urban warzone because your school doesn't have any money to adequately educate you or your peers.

Another thing that needs to be remembered, is that to this day, discrimination does not affect gay people in the same way as black people. Blacks only earn an average of about $30,000 a year, with Hispanics earning $36,000 a year, in comparison to the $49,000 a year average of white people, and the $81,000 a year of gay people. The fact that gay people tend to live comfortably in the upper half of the middle class makes it a lot easier for many of them to live in safer, more stable neighborhoods, which means most of them will not experience street violence first-hand.

Of course violence against gays is a problem, and all we have to do is look through the news and see that. However, violence within and against minorities is an even bigger problem, and is showing no signs of going anywhere. While the gay community is out protesting against proposition 8, young children are dying in the streets of a city that's only a half hour from my house, and it's all because they were born into an economic ditch that there's very little hope of escaping.

I can understand that gay people get upset and frustrated by being thought of differently than straight people. But the fact of the matter is, equal rights has not yet given us racial equality, and to see so many gay people comparing their struggle to have legally recognized marriages instead of civil unions to the things that a 10 year old boy in New Haven (in Connecticut, a state that has gay marriage of all places!) has to go through just because of where he was born, when the vast majority of gay people live in economic comfort, doesn't seem rational to me. As an outsider looking in on both the gay and black communities, it really bothers me that even though my home stat is one of the richest in the country, the people there care more about establishing gay marriage than they do about fixing our inner city schools.

[Timstuff]

Kel, I am definitely with you on that one. I don't mean to disrespect gays and lesbians, but just looking at the living conditions of most gays and lesbians in comparison to racial minorities, it's really hard for me to understand how people can so casually compare the two. Yeah, it's not fun being gay when you hear kids using homosexual slurs as insults and distasteful adjectives, but what is really not fun is growing up in an urban warzone because your school doesn't have any money to adequately educate you or your peers.

Another thing that needs to be remembered, is that to this day, discrimination does not affect gay people in the same way as black people. Blacks only earn an average of about $30,000 a year, with Hispanics earning $36,000 a year, in comparison to the $49,000 a year average of white people, and the $81,000 a year of gay people. The fact that gay people tend to live comfortably in the upper half of the middle class makes it a lot easier for many of them to live in safer, more stable neighborhoods, which means most of them will not experience street violence first-hand.

Of course violence against gays is a problem, and all we have to do is look through the news and see that. However, violence within and against minorities is an even bigger problem, and is showing no signs of going anywhere. While the gay community is out protesting against proposition 8, young children are dying in the streets of a city that's only a half hour from my house, and it's all because they were born into an economic ditch that there's very little hope of escaping.

I can understand that gay people get upset and frustrated by being thought of differently than straight people. But the fact of the matter is, equal rights has not yet given us racial equality, and to see so many gay people comparing their struggle to have legally recognized marriages instead of civil unions to the things that a 10 year old boy in New Haven (in Connecticut, a state that has gay marriage of all places!) has to go through just because of where he was born, when the vast majority of gay people live in economic comfort, doesn't seem rational to me. As an outsider looking in on both the gay and black communities, it really bothers me that even though my home stat is one of the richest in the country, the people there care more about establishing gay marriage than they do about fixing our inner city schools.

[SentinelMind]

Blacks were segregated from entire communities, facilities, institutions, professions...etc....because of their race. It's government-sanctioned segregation.

Gays are being discriminated against but they cannot compare in any way to the intense racial discrimination Blacks experienced in the 60s. As Kel said it, homosexuals can run any business, attend same facilities as heterosexuals. Not being allowed to marry someone and recieve similar tax benefits is nowhere near as brutal...not even anywhere near discussing near, ....as what Jim Crow laws Blacks experienced.

Lots of Blacks don't appreciate their history being ignored and marginalized while simultaneuously ever other special interest group wants to bandwagon their experience to push their agenda forward and claim its the same as what Blacks experience.

The only comparison....you can make is compare gay marriage to interracial marriage, although I think there are some significant differences between those two as well.

[SentinelMind]

Blacks were segregated from entire communities, facilities, institutions, professions...etc....because of their race. It's government-sanctioned segregation.

Gays are being discriminated against but they cannot compare in any way to the intense racial discrimination Blacks experienced in the 60s. As Kel said it, homosexuals can run any business, attend same facilities as heterosexuals. Not being allowed to marry someone and recieve similar tax benefits is nowhere near as brutal...not even anywhere near discussing near, ....as what Jim Crow laws Blacks experienced.

Lots of Blacks don't appreciate their history being ignored and marginalized while simultaneuously ever other special interest group wants to bandwagon their experience to push their agenda forward and claim its the same as what Blacks experience.

The only comparison....you can make is compare gay marriage to interracial marriage, although I think there are some significant differences between those two as well.

[SentinelMind]

Blacks were segregated from entire communities, facilities, institutions, professions...etc....because of their race. It's government-sanctioned segregation.

Gays are being discriminated against but they cannot compare in any way to the intense racial discrimination Blacks experienced in the 60s. As Kel said it, homosexuals can run any business, attend same facilities as heterosexuals. Not being allowed to marry someone and recieve similar tax benefits is nowhere near as brutal...not even anywhere near discussing near, ....as what Jim Crow laws Blacks experienced.

Lots of Blacks don't appreciate their history being ignored and marginalized while simultaneuously ever other special interest group wants to bandwagon their experience to push their agenda forward and claim its the same as what Blacks experience.

The only comparison....you can make is compare gay marriage to interracial marriage, although I think there are some significant differences between those two as well.

[BlackLantern]

I don't think it's fair that married couples get a tax break.....

[BlackLantern]

I don't think it's fair that married couples get a tax break.....

[BlackLantern]

I don't think it's fair that married couples get a tax break.....

[Kelly]

My problem is not coming from being a black American....because I'm not......its from a lifetime of studying these issues and it absolutely makes me sick to see them trivialized for something that WILL happen, maybe not as fast as they would like, but WILL happen......and there is already a mindset change towards gays happening as we speak at a much faster rate than what happened in the Women's Movement or Civil Rights Movement.........I see that mindset change everyday in my classrooms.......

[Kelly]

My problem is not coming from being a black American....because I'm not......its from a lifetime of studying these issues and it absolutely makes me sick to see them trivialized for something that WILL happen, maybe not as fast as they would like, but WILL happen......and there is already a mindset change towards gays happening as we speak at a much faster rate than what happened in the Women's Movement or Civil Rights Movement.........I see that mindset change everyday in my classrooms.......

[Kelly]

My problem is not coming from being a black American....because I'm not......its from a lifetime of studying these issues and it absolutely makes me sick to see them trivialized for something that WILL happen, maybe not as fast as they would like, but WILL happen......and there is already a mindset change towards gays happening as we speak at a much faster rate than what happened in the Women's Movement or Civil Rights Movement.........I see that mindset change everyday in my classrooms.......

[chaseter]

I just read on yahoo that Prince is against gay marriage. WTF!?

[chaseter]

I just read on yahoo that Prince is against gay marriage. WTF!?

[chaseter]

I just read on yahoo that Prince is against gay marriage. WTF!?

[Schlosser85]

^...that's a little ironic, considering Prince is right up there on the list of people who seem like they should be flaming gay but are apparently straight.

[Schlosser85]

^...that's a little ironic, considering Prince is right up there on the list of people who seem like they should be flaming gay but are apparently straight.

[Schlosser85]

^...that's a little ironic, considering Prince is right up there on the list of people who seem like they should be flaming gay but are apparently straight.

[Gilpesh]

I just read on yahoo that Prince is against gay marriage. WTF!?

Dearly beloved... we are gathered here today... to get through this thing, called life...

And make sure the gays can't get married.

[Gilpesh]

I just read on yahoo that Prince is against gay marriage. WTF!?

Dearly beloved... we are gathered here today... to get through this thing, called life...

And make sure the gays can't get married.

[Gilpesh]

I just read on yahoo that Prince is against gay marriage. WTF!?

Dearly beloved... we are gathered here today... to get through this thing, called life...

And make sure the gays can't get married.

[chaseter]

I guess Prince is Mr. Queermo off of South Park. Blatantly gay but somehow outwardly a straight fascist???

[chaseter]

I guess Prince is Mr. Queermo off of South Park. Blatantly gay but somehow outwardly a straight fascist???

[chaseter]

I guess Prince is Mr. Queermo off of South Park. Blatantly gay but somehow outwardly a straight fascist???

[Marx]

I just read on yahoo that Prince is against gay marriage. WTF!?

Prince also said that he was misquoted.

[Marx]

I just read on yahoo that Prince is against gay marriage. WTF!?

Prince also said that he was misquoted.

[Marx]

I just read on yahoo that Prince is against gay marriage. WTF!?

Prince also said that he was misquoted.

[deathfromabove]

our schools must be in trouble because the reading comprehension in this thread is pathetic.

i'm sorry but it saddens me that so many young people are still so ignorant.

:huh:

[deathfromabove]

our schools must be in trouble because the reading comprehension in this thread is pathetic.

i'm sorry but it saddens me that so many young people are still so ignorant.

:huh:

[deathfromabove]

our schools must be in trouble because the reading comprehension in this thread is pathetic.

i'm sorry but it saddens me that so many young people are still so ignorant.

:huh:

[Kelly]

Again, I understand what you are saying.......I'm not discussing the equal issue with you......so who is not comprehending?

[Kelly]

Again, I understand what you are saying.......I'm not discussing the equal issue with you......so who is not comprehending?

[Kelly]

Again, I understand what you are saying.......I'm not discussing the equal issue with you......so who is not comprehending?

[BlackLantern]

Nice avy Kel...I have to watch the first season of Damages when I get a chance

[BlackLantern]

Nice avy Kel...I have to watch the first season of Damages when I get a chance

[BlackLantern]

Nice avy Kel...I have to watch the first season of Damages when I get a chance

[Kelly]

Nice avy Kel...I have to watch the first season of Damages when I get a chance

I'm hoping they do a marathon before the new season.......if they do....YOU DEFINITELY have to watch it......and watching it all at once will make it even better.

[Kelly]

Nice avy Kel...I have to watch the first season of Damages when I get a chance

I'm hoping they do a marathon before the new season.......if they do....YOU DEFINITELY have to watch it......and watching it all at once will make it even better.

[Kelly]

Nice avy Kel...I have to watch the first season of Damages when I get a chance

I'm hoping they do a marathon before the new season.......if they do....YOU DEFINITELY have to watch it......and watching it all at once will make it even better.

[Red Mask]

I don't think it's fair that married couples get a tax break.....

I agree with you there.

[Red Mask]

I don't think it's fair that married couples get a tax break.....

I agree with you there.

[Red Mask]

I don't think it's fair that married couples get a tax break.....

I agree with you there.

[Hotwire]

But until your rights to the very basics of life are taken away.....no, there is no comparison...
And there are those who are trying to take away the right to marry who you want just because they don't agree with it. Just like they did when the issue wasn't the sex of your partner, but rather the color of their skin. See, that was my comparison. Not that gays have it just as hard now as blacks did then. My comparison was that they are another group of minorities that the majority is trying to shaft out of their rights. Then there is the similarity in that some people suport civil unions, just so long as you don't call it marriage. This bares some resemblance to the whole "seperate but equal" idea of segregation. The idea that, "You can have what I have, just not quite." So, while it's true, blacks in this country have had it far worse, you really can't deny that there are similarities between the two. And for the record, having similarities does NOT mean they are the same.

[Hotwire]

But until your rights to the very basics of life are taken away.....no, there is no comparison...
And there are those who are trying to take away the right to marry who you want just because they don't agree with it. Just like they did when the issue wasn't the sex of your partner, but rather the color of their skin. See, that was my comparison. Not that gays have it just as hard now as blacks did then. My comparison was that they are another group of minorities that the majority is trying to shaft out of their rights. Then there is the similarity in that some people suport civil unions, just so long as you don't call it marriage. This bares some resemblance to the whole "seperate but equal" idea of segregation. The idea that, "You can have what I have, just not quite." So, while it's true, blacks in this country have had it far worse, you really can't deny that there are similarities between the two. And for the record, having similarities does NOT mean they are the same.

[Hotwire]

But until your rights to the very basics of life are taken away.....no, there is no comparison...
And there are those who are trying to take away the right to marry who you want just because they don't agree with it. Just like they did when the issue wasn't the sex of your partner, but rather the color of their skin. See, that was my comparison. Not that gays have it just as hard now as blacks did then. My comparison was that they are another group of minorities that the majority is trying to shaft out of their rights. Then there is the similarity in that some people suport civil unions, just so long as you don't call it marriage. This bares some resemblance to the whole "seperate but equal" idea of segregation. The idea that, "You can have what I have, just not quite." So, while it's true, blacks in this country have had it far worse, you really can't deny that there are similarities between the two. And for the record, having similarities does NOT mean they are the same.

[Marx]

OBAMA TO DELAY REPEAL OF 'DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL'
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/21/obama-to-delay-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell/

[Marx]

OBAMA TO DELAY REPEAL OF 'DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL'
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/21/obama-to-delay-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell/

[Marx]

OBAMA TO DELAY REPEAL OF 'DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL'
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/21/obama-to-delay-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell/

[Red Mask]

The military is a sub-culture that practices its own laws and traditions. I doubt it was ever possible to change its attitudes. Getting the troops out of Iraq would be more important.

[Red Mask]

The military is a sub-culture that practices its own laws and traditions. I doubt it was ever possible to change its attitudes. Getting the troops out of Iraq would be more important.

[Red Mask]

The military is a sub-culture that practices its own laws and traditions. I doubt it was ever possible to change its attitudes. Getting the troops out of Iraq would be more important.

[Chris Wallace]

The whole separation of church and state thing isn't really done very well. Being gay should have no bearing on how your viewed by the government or by law. I wholeheartedly agree. There should be no legislation on something that is only disputable from a religious point of view. Look, if I were in a war zone & I got shot, the only thing that would matter to me is that somebody pulled my ass off the battlefield. WHo he slept with after doing so is of no concern to me. WHo you date, marry, whatever-that's you. That's your life. Be who you are, like who you like, & if God has anything to say about it, trust me-He will.

[Chris Wallace]

The whole separation of church and state thing isn't really done very well. Being gay should have no bearing on how your viewed by the government or by law. I wholeheartedly agree. There should be no legislation on something that is only disputable from a religious point of view. Look, if I were in a war zone & I got shot, the only thing that would matter to me is that somebody pulled my ass off the battlefield. WHo he slept with after doing so is of no concern to me. WHo you date, marry, whatever-that's you. That's your life. Be who you are, like who you like, & if God has anything to say about it, trust me-He will.

[Chris Wallace]

The whole separation of church and state thing isn't really done very well. Being gay should have no bearing on how your viewed by the government or by law. I wholeheartedly agree. There should be no legislation on something that is only disputable from a religious point of view. Look, if I were in a war zone & I got shot, the only thing that would matter to me is that somebody pulled my ass off the battlefield. WHo he slept with after doing so is of no concern to me. WHo you date, marry, whatever-that's you. That's your life. Be who you are, like who you like, & if God has anything to say about it, trust me-He will.

[Kelly]

I wholeheartedly agree. There should be no legislation on something that is only disputable from a religious point of view. Look, if I were in a war zone & I got shot, the only thing that would matter to me is that somebody pulled my ass off the battlefield. WHo he slept with after doing so is of no concern to me. WHo you date, marry, whatever-that's you. That's your life. Be who you are, like who you like, & if God has anything to say about it, trust me-He will.

The thing is....because of "separation of church and state" which BTW, is not anywhere in the Constitution, it is the idea brought about by the "Freedom of Religion" but because of this, you cannot ask someone why they are voting for something and if they say religious reasons, you can't keep them from voting. This idea is to keep the "government" from choosing a certain religion over another, or to give favor to another, or to keep people from worshipping in whatever religion they choose, or not to have a religion.

This is why it should be done legislatively just as other issues that are warranted but may not be what the majority want.

I can assure you, the Emancipation Proclamation was not wanted by the majority, but it was certainly warranted.


IMO, the actions against churches and the animosity against the people that simply followed their right to vote and vote for whatever reason they wanted are not the ones that should be demonized for this. No one should be demonized, it should simply be taken through the legislative process, and strengthened through the judicial process. This will take time yes, but it will happen.

[Kelly]

I wholeheartedly agree. There should be no legislation on something that is only disputable from a religious point of view. Look, if I were in a war zone & I got shot, the only thing that would matter to me is that somebody pulled my ass off the battlefield. WHo he slept with after doing so is of no concern to me. WHo you date, marry, whatever-that's you. That's your life. Be who you are, like who you like, & if God has anything to say about it, trust me-He will.

The thing is....because of "separation of church and state" which BTW, is not anywhere in the Constitution, it is the idea brought about by the "Freedom of Religion" but because of this, you cannot ask someone why they are voting for something and if they say religious reasons, you can't keep them from voting. This idea is to keep the "government" from choosing a certain religion over another, or to give favor to another, or to keep people from worshipping in whatever religion they choose, or not to have a religion.

This is why it should be done legislatively just as other issues that are warranted but may not be what the majority want.

I can assure you, the Emancipation Proclamation was not wanted by the majority, but it was certainly warranted.


IMO, the actions against churches and the animosity against the people that simply followed their right to vote and vote for whatever reason they wanted are not the ones that should be demonized for this. No one should be demonized, it should simply be taken through the legislative process, and strengthened through the judicial process. This will take time yes, but it will happen.

[Kelly]

I wholeheartedly agree. There should be no legislation on something that is only disputable from a religious point of view. Look, if I were in a war zone & I got shot, the only thing that would matter to me is that somebody pulled my ass off the battlefield. WHo he slept with after doing so is of no concern to me. WHo you date, marry, whatever-that's you. That's your life. Be who you are, like who you like, & if God has anything to say about it, trust me-He will.

The thing is....because of "separation of church and state" which BTW, is not anywhere in the Constitution, it is the idea brought about by the "Freedom of Religion" but because of this, you cannot ask someone why they are voting for something and if they say religious reasons, you can't keep them from voting. This idea is to keep the "government" from choosing a certain religion over another, or to give favor to another, or to keep people from worshipping in whatever religion they choose, or not to have a religion.

This is why it should be done legislatively just as other issues that are warranted but may not be what the majority want.

I can assure you, the Emancipation Proclamation was not wanted by the majority, but it was certainly warranted.


IMO, the actions against churches and the animosity against the people that simply followed their right to vote and vote for whatever reason they wanted are not the ones that should be demonized for this. No one should be demonized, it should simply be taken through the legislative process, and strengthened through the judicial process. This will take time yes, but it will happen.

[Marx]

The thing is....because of "separation of church and state" which BTW, is not anywhere in the Constitution, it is the idea brought about by the "Freedom of Religion" but because of this, you cannot ask someone why they are voting for something and if they say religious reasons, you can't keep them from voting. This idea is to keep the "government" from choosing a certain religion over another, or to give favor to another, or to keep people from worshipping in whatever religion they choose, or not to have a religion.

This is why it should be done legislatively just as other issues that are warranted but may not be what the majority want.

I can assure you, the Emancipation Proclamation was not wanted by the majority, but it was certainly warranted.


IMO, the actions against churches and the animosity against the people that simply followed their right to vote and vote for whatever reason they wanted are not the ones that should be demonized for this. No one should be demonized, it should simply be taken through the legislative process, and strengthened through the judicial process. This will take time yes, but it will happen.

People should be able to vote on whatever basis they want to, I agree. The issue is the fact that the Mormon church funnelled millions of dollars into a campaign that distorted facts and scared people into voting one way or the other. And that's just not right.

[Marx]

The thing is....because of "separation of church and state" which BTW, is not anywhere in the Constitution, it is the idea brought about by the "Freedom of Religion" but because of this, you cannot ask someone why they are voting for something and if they say religious reasons, you can't keep them from voting. This idea is to keep the "government" from choosing a certain religion over another, or to give favor to another, or to keep people from worshipping in whatever religion they choose, or not to have a religion.

This is why it should be done legislatively just as other issues that are warranted but may not be what the majority want.

I can assure you, the Emancipation Proclamation was not wanted by the majority, but it was certainly warranted.


IMO, the actions against churches and the animosity against the people that simply followed their right to vote and vote for whatever reason they wanted are not the ones that should be demonized for this. No one should be demonized, it should simply be taken through the legislative process, and strengthened through the judicial process. This will take time yes, but it will happen.

People should be able to vote on whatever basis they want to, I agree. The issue is the fact that the Mormon church funnelled millions of dollars into a campaign that distorted facts and scared people into voting one way or the other. And that's just not right.

[Marx]

The thing is....because of "separation of church and state" which BTW, is not anywhere in the Constitution, it is the idea brought about by the "Freedom of Religion" but because of this, you cannot ask someone why they are voting for something and if they say religious reasons, you can't keep them from voting. This idea is to keep the "government" from choosing a certain religion over another, or to give favor to another, or to keep people from worshipping in whatever religion they choose, or not to have a religion.

This is why it should be done legislatively just as other issues that are warranted but may not be what the majority want.

I can assure you, the Emancipation Proclamation was not wanted by the majority, but it was certainly warranted.


IMO, the actions against churches and the animosity against the people that simply followed their right to vote and vote for whatever reason they wanted are not the ones that should be demonized for this. No one should be demonized, it should simply be taken through the legislative process, and strengthened through the judicial process. This will take time yes, but it will happen.

People should be able to vote on whatever basis they want to, I agree. The issue is the fact that the Mormon church funnelled millions of dollars into a campaign that distorted facts and scared people into voting one way or the other. And that's just not right.

[Kelly]

People should be able to vote on whatever basis they want to, I agree. The issue is the fact that the Mormon church funnelled millions of dollars into a campaign that distorted facts and scared people into voting one way or the other. And that's just not right.


The church itself did not, members of the church did, and you can call it funnling all you want.....if the members wrote the checks....that is their right. They can write as many checks as they want to whoever they want for whatever cause they want. The church itself cannot. The only thing you might can prove that the church did was to "ask" its members to do that.......and unless you have the preacher doing that from his/her pulpit.......theres nothing to prove. The thing about the Mormon church is much of what they do is outside the walls of the church. They are very much into home bible study etc.........and what is talked about in that home is up to that homeowner.

Good Luck to whoever wants to try and prove that the Mormon Church went against the tax code for non-profit organizations.


Heres the thing about all of this that I see as a negative possibility.....

As the Gay Rights Issue fights for the right to marry in all states, they tend to be voicing the desire of people to vote their desire whether it be religious reasons or not........that can always backfire.

I had a Christian Organization in our school that wanted to ban t-shirts with Rap artists on it, ect......and they were ready to fight for it all the way to the school board. I asked them if they were willing to give up their right to wear t-shirts with Christian sayings on them....they said no, then, I said......don't take away their right to wear theres.

When you take on something that has been a basis for much of what this country was built on, whether you believe it or not....as you cut down that extremely large tree, you will taking down MANY, MANY OTHER TREES, some just as large and what you were fighting for in the first place, can quite possibly take away many of your rights as well. "Freedom of Religion" is going to be a part of our Constitution until this country is no more.

I would suggest to those fighting for their right to marry, to keep their eye on the ball they are carrying......

[Kelly]

People should be able to vote on whatever basis they want to, I agree. The issue is the fact that the Mormon church funnelled millions of dollars into a campaign that distorted facts and scared people into voting one way or the other. And that's just not right.


The church itself did not, members of the church did, and you can call it funnling all you want.....if the members wrote the checks....that is their right. They can write as many checks as they want to whoever they want for whatever cause they want. The church itself cannot. The only thing you might can prove that the church did was to "ask" its members to do that.......and unless you have the preacher doing that from his/her pulpit.......theres nothing to prove. The thing about the Mormon church is much of what they do is outside the walls of the church. They are very much into home bible study etc.........and what is talked about in that home is up to that homeowner.

Good Luck to whoever wants to try and prove that the Mormon Church went against the tax code for non-profit organizations.


Heres the thing about all of this that I see as a negative possibility.....

As the Gay Rights Issue fights for the right to marry in all states, they tend to be voicing the desire of people to vote their desire whether it be religious reasons or not........that can always backfire.

I had a Christian Organization in our school that wanted to ban t-shirts with Rap artists on it, ect......and they were ready to fight for it all the way to the school board. I asked them if they were willing to give up their right to wear t-shirts with Christian sayings on them....they said no, then, I said......don't take away their right to wear theres.

When you take on something that has been a basis for much of what this country was built on, whether you believe it or not....as you cut down that extremely large tree, you will taking down MANY, MANY OTHER TREES, some just as large and what you were fighting for in the first place, can quite possibly take away many of your rights as well. "Freedom of Religion" is going to be a part of our Constitution until this country is no more.

I would suggest to those fighting for their right to marry, to keep their eye on the ball they are carrying......

[Kelly]

People should be able to vote on whatever basis they want to, I agree. The issue is the fact that the Mormon church funnelled millions of dollars into a campaign that distorted facts and scared people into voting one way or the other. And that's just not right.


The church itself did not, members of the church did, and you can call it funnling all you want.....if the members wrote the checks....that is their right. They can write as many checks as they want to whoever they want for whatever cause they want. The church itself cannot. The only thing you might can prove that the church did was to "ask" its members to do that.......and unless you have the preacher doing that from his/her pulpit.......theres nothing to prove. The thing about the Mormon church is much of what they do is outside the walls of the church. They are very much into home bible study etc.........and what is talked about in that home is up to that homeowner.

Good Luck to whoever wants to try and prove that the Mormon Church went against the tax code for non-profit organizations.


Heres the thing about all of this that I see as a negative possibility.....

As the Gay Rights Issue fights for the right to marry in all states, they tend to be voicing the desire of people to vote their desire whether it be religious reasons or not........that can always backfire.

I had a Christian Organization in our school that wanted to ban t-shirts with Rap artists on it, ect......and they were ready to fight for it all the way to the school board. I asked them if they were willing to give up their right to wear t-shirts with Christian sayings on them....they said no, then, I said......don't take away their right to wear theres.

When you take on something that has been a basis for much of what this country was built on, whether you believe it or not....as you cut down that extremely large tree, you will taking down MANY, MANY OTHER TREES, some just as large and what you were fighting for in the first place, can quite possibly take away many of your rights as well. "Freedom of Religion" is going to be a part of our Constitution until this country is no more.

I would suggest to those fighting for their right to marry, to keep their eye on the ball they are carrying......

[Timstuff]

The military is a sub-culture that practices its own laws and traditions. I doubt it was ever possible to change its attitudes. Getting the troops out of Iraq would be more important.

When it comes to military protocols, I do not think that there is room for public opinion to take precedence over the judgment of the military's leaders, which is why I do not think the don't ask don't tell policy should be changed unless the change comes from within the military itself. We, the general public, are not in the military, so I don't think we're in a position to tell them that they have too many rules, because the military's rules are in place for a reason. It might not be "fair," but my brother, who's in the military, says that there are a lot of things in the military that aren't "fair," but it's all for the good of the soldiers. Don't ask don't tell is the only "unfair" protocol that has people actively campaigning for its abolition though, because it's tied to the gay rights movement.

[Timstuff]

The military is a sub-culture that practices its own laws and traditions. I doubt it was ever possible to change its attitudes. Getting the troops out of Iraq would be more important.

When it comes to military protocols, I do not think that there is room for public opinion to take precedence over the judgment of the military's leaders, which is why I do not think the don't ask don't tell policy should be changed unless the change comes from within the military itself. We, the general public, are not in the military, so I don't think we're in a position to tell them that they have too many rules, because the military's rules are in place for a reason. It might not be "fair," but my brother, who's in the military, says that there are a lot of things in the military that aren't "fair," but it's all for the good of the soldiers. Don't ask don't tell is the only "unfair" protocol that has people actively campaigning for its abolition though, because it's tied to the gay rights movement.

[Timstuff]

The military is a sub-culture that practices its own laws and traditions. I doubt it was ever possible to change its attitudes. Getting the troops out of Iraq would be more important.

When it comes to military protocols, I do not think that there is room for public opinion to take precedence over the judgment of the military's leaders, which is why I do not think the don't ask don't tell policy should be changed unless the change comes from within the military itself. We, the general public, are not in the military, so I don't think we're in a position to tell them that they have too many rules, because the military's rules are in place for a reason. It might not be "fair," but my brother, who's in the military, says that there are a lot of things in the military that aren't "fair," but it's all for the good of the soldiers. Don't ask don't tell is the only "unfair" protocol that has people actively campaigning for its abolition though, because it's tied to the gay rights movement.