Should Hans Zimmer borrow from the John Williams score?

[aaronw]

Most of us love the original John Williams Superman score, especially the title march. It is supremely iconic and has become synonymous with Superman himself.

However, most of us also realize the need for Snyder to move away from the Donner films and Superman Returns, and adding a different score helps to accomplish that.

Nevertheless, Hans Zimmer's scores tend not to be as iconic and unforgettable. As Superman fans, we should not settle for anything less.

Thus the question: To what extent should Hans Zimmer borrow from the original John Williams score, if at all?

[dark_b]

of course not.

[solidsnake86]

No.

[Randal Graves]

No!

[Hush]

Nothing, I mean are we ever going to move away from that score? I get that its Iconic but I mean people clamor for a new take on Superman and the moment one of the greatest composers of all time gets named people wonder if he should borrow from one of the other all time greats? There is a reason Zimmer and Williams became great in the first place. Superman needs more than anything else a completely new score to live off of.

[aaronw]

Yeah, and while were at it, why don't we begin putting Christ on a poster board instead of on a cross!

[Hush]

No Superman just as a character needs to move past the Williams score. Batman moved from Elfman. Why not Superman from Williams.

[sithgoblin]

I do not want to hear one iota of Williams' theme.

[aaronw]

Nothing, I mean are we ever going to move away from that score? I get that its Iconic but I mean people clamor for a new take on Superman and the moment one of the greatest composers of all time gets named people wonder if he should borrow from one of the other all time greats? There is a reason Zimmer and Williams became great in the first place. Superman needs more than anything else a completely new score to live off of.


Zimmer's scores are a nice complement to the movies, but they are completely forgettable. Superman needs a score that tells his story all by itself, that sounds as triumphant as he is. Zimmer is not going to do that by starting from scratch.

Changing the theme completely would be like putting Superman in black leather tights, or making his love interest someone else besides Lois Lane. It wouldn't be Superman.

[Black Dynamite]

It will prob be similar to the new batman score where there are subtle hints from the 1989 score but different and unique. I like a lot of Zimmer's work so I'm in favor of a new score.

[aaronw]

No Superman just as a character needs to move past the Williams score. Batman moved from Elfman. Why not Superman from Williams.

The 90's Batman films already moved away from the Elfman score. The Elfman score for batman was far less synonymous with Batman himself, as it was a staple of Batman for only 5 years. The Williams score for Superman has been a staple of Superman for over three decades. Moreover, Williams theme captures the heart and soul of Superman far better than the Elfman theme did for Batman.

I suppose if you didn't grow up watching the original superman movies, you wouldn't identify with what I'm saying.

It seems to me that nothing can get better than the Williams theme. Change simply for the sake change is alway a bad idea.

[Nirvana]

No.

[Stringer]

No.

[Steyin]

I'll guarantee that no new theme will ever move me the way Williams' does. Hell, knowing Zimmer, we probably won't even get a theme. As for an overall score, I am confident it will be solid.

[Rezzo]

Time to move on from Williams score.

[aaronw]

Time to move on from Williams score.

Um, why?

It's good the way it is.

[daywalker2007]

In an ideal world, the Williams Superman theme would be used forever as nothing can ever top it, never ever. But as we have to be realistic, the answer is going to be No.

Technically speaking, Hans Zimmer is not capable of even giving a good rendition of the Williams theme as he is not a trained composer like Williams.

But what Zimmer is good at is creating new sounds and textures, and music which will suit the movie it is in. It will probably lack any sort of melody, and will probably be a simple two or four note theme, but it will most likely work with the visuals.

IMO Zimmer's best work was with Black Rain (incidentally he reused the exact theme for Batman Begins and Dark Knight), Rain Man, Last Samurai and Gladiator.

I think Zimmer works best with dark movies, and has a distinctive sound honed over 20 years of vast experience.

Is he going to give us an epic Superman theme? The answer is No.
Is he going to give us a relatively decent theme for Snyder's superman movie? Probably yes.

If we keep expectations low, maybe he will surprise us, but then again, Zimmer hardly changes, you always know what you will get.

I doubt we will get a big brassy score like the Williams score.

the end result will be good though, maybe Zimmer might get inspired to shut the doubters up by giving us his best ever score! we can only hope!

[Rezzo]

Um, why?

It's good the way it is.

I love Williams original score, but it's just time to move on.

[aaronw]

In an ideal world, the Williams Superman theme would be used forever as nothing can ever top it, never ever. But as we have to be realistic, the answer is going to be No.

Technically speaking, Hans Zimmer is not capable of even giving a good rendition of the Williams theme as he is not a trained composer like Williams.

But what Zimmer is good at is creating new sounds and textures, and music which will suit the movie it is in. It will probably lack any sort of melody, and will probably be a simple two or four note theme, but it will most likely work with the visuals.

IMO Zimmer's best work was with Black Rain (incidentally he reused the exact theme for Batman Begins and Dark Knight), Rain Man, Last Samurai and Gladiator.

I think Zimmer works best with dark movies, and has a distinctive sound honed over 20 years of vast experience.

Is he going to give us an epic Superman theme? The answer is No.
Is he going to give us a relatively decent theme for Snyder's superman movie? Probably yes.

If we keep expectations low, maybe he will surprise us, but then again, Zimmer hardly changes, you always know what you will get.

I doubt we will get a big brassy score like the Williams score.

the end result will be good though, maybe Zimmer might get inspired to shut the doubters up by giving us his best ever score! we can only hope!

You are right. Zimmer is probably not going to deliver us an epic them, which means he's not going to use the Williams theme at all. Unless, perhaps, fan boys like us intensely demand it. For that reason it's good to first ask whether he should use the Williams theme at all.

[shieldshero]

Enjoyed all the new music in Returns, the Williams stuff didn't work at all without the original cast. . . new score please

[Doctor Jones]

**** no!

Keeping the Williams score is only keeping a foot in the Donner world. If this is a true reboot, it must go. Yeah, yeah, spare me the James Bond stuff, but Bond isn't nailed down like Superman is with Donner. Superman needs it alot more than Bond.

[daywalker2007]

We have to look at this way. What is the main theme that Zimmer came up with for Nolan's Batman movies? It was basically the "mollossus" theme which sticks out as the defining theme for Nolan's batman.

And this theme was actually created 16 years earlier before Batman Begins for "Black Rain".

If you don't believe me, just listen here, its the exact same theme, note for note!

Xl9jb_No1GI
So i'm curious as to what he is going to come up with for Superman. I have a sneaky feeling he might reuse something from one of his previous movies.

[DorkyFresh]

not only should he NOT borrow from Williams's theme, but he's confirmed that he's not going to. i understand the want for some semblance of Williams's theme but this shouldn't even really be a discussion since it's confirmed that he'll be 'reinventing' Superman's score.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

**** no!

Keeping the Williams score is only keeping a foot in the Donner world. If this is a true reboot, it must go. Yeah, yeah, spare me the James Bond stuff, but Bond isn't nailed down like Superman is with Donner. Superman needs it alot more than Bond.Ditto, my good sir.

[ALP]

Is he going to give us an epic Superman theme? The answer is No.
Is he going to give us a relatively decent theme for Snyder's superman movie? Probably yes.

I unfortunately have to agree. I'm most afraid Zimmer won't create an iconic theme.

He did score Lion King and Pirates- incredible very memorable... so I still have small bits of hope.

[Project862006]

he does'nt just do dark he can do light hearted

D8Xk38J0cYo

[Nirvana]

Light-hearted Zimmer?

Tn4pZ8laors

[Warhammer]

Hell no. This is a brand new Superman. No themes whatsoever should be carried over from the original Superman films. This is Snyder's man of steel.

[Hush]

Zimmer's scores are a nice complement to the movies, but they are completely forgettable. Superman needs a score that tells his story all by itself, that sounds as triumphant as he is. Zimmer is not going to do that by starting from scratch.

Changing the theme completely would be like putting Superman in black leather tights, or making his love interest someone else besides Lois Lane. It wouldn't be Superman.

Are you ****ing kidding? Inception, Gladiator, Rain Man, The Lion King, Batman Begins and countless other scores are completely forgettable? He made those from scratch, influences from other pieces yes but primarily it was influence from HIS work that he used.

The theme is great we all agree on that but changing it does not change the character in anyway.

The 90's Batman films already moved away from the Elfman score. The Elfman score for batman was far less synonymous with Batman himself, as it was a staple of Batman for only 5 years. The Williams score for Superman has been a staple of Superman for over three decades. Moreover, Williams theme captures the heart and soul of Superman far better than the Elfman theme did for Batman.

I suppose if you didn't grow up watching the original superman movies, you wouldn't identify with what I'm saying.

It seems to me that nothing can get better than the Williams theme. Change simply for the sake change is alway a bad idea.

SO I didnt grow up watching the movies? I don't know if your aware but Elfman's theme was the basis for TAS theme song by Shirley Walker. SO it was around a little longer than five years and parts of it are heard in all 4 of the original films, its just as iconic as Superman and if you hear it no one says "oh who's theme is that?". Don't sell that theme short.

I do not want change for changes sake, I want change because I want a new sound for Superman and I do not want to have to think of the reeves films every time I watch the new one. Its plain and simple. I respect what Williams did but even Potter has moved past just playing Hedwigs theme over and over again. Zimmer is more than qualified to make and awesome score that he doesnt need to pay hommage. By clinging to Williams the way you are you're asking for more of the same as far as the Superman movies have gone.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

^Best post in this thread.

[solidsnake86]

The 90's Batman films already moved away from the Elfman score. The Elfman score for batman was far less synonymous with Batman himself, as it was a staple of Batman for only 5 years. The Williams score for Superman has been a staple of Superman for over three decades. Moreover, Williams theme captures the heart and soul of Superman far better than the Elfman theme did for Batman.

I suppose if you didn't grow up watching the original superman movies, you wouldn't identify with what I'm saying.

It seems to me that nothing can get better than the Williams theme. Change simply for the sake change is alway a bad idea.

Wow I can't believe you actually typed that. Considering you think the Elfman theme is so forgettable its funny that its appeard in more forms of media then the beloved williams theme. Batman the animated series used it, which is arguably more popular then 4 of the superman movies no one cares about. Not to mention lego batman recently used the theme last year post Nolan batman. I understand that the williams theme is close to a lot of people and I respect that, but lets not delude ourselves into thinking another theme won't work, or that the elfman theme wasn't important because last time I checked the 1989 batman movie was a cultural phenomenon. For a theme that is so popular why did superman man the animated series not use it, or smallville. Did lois and clark even use the theme?

[jak123]

Look, I love Williams theme, but now is the time for a completely new score.

[Figs]

As much as I love William's score I think it's time to move on and Zimmer should do something entirely new. I loved Elfman's Batman theme growing up but now I don't really care for it. Now I know William's Superman theme is waaay more iconic but I can get over it and I have the first two Superman films at home if I ever miss it.

They need to distance this film from all of the past ones as much as possible, I'm looking forward to what Zimmer comes up with.

[Kurosawa]

Love the Willams theme. I also loved the Fleischer theme, the theme from Kirk Alyn's serial and of course the TV theme. It's time to move on.

[Elevator Man]

I know what Hans Zimmer can borrow from Williams for this reboot..... William's talent. That's not going to happen, though.

[Asgard]

Synthesizers FTW!

I really wonder just what hell create for Superman's theme.

[Elevator Man]

Synthesizers FTW!

I really wonder just what hell create for Superman's theme.

RBzkAbx9gk0?

[aaronw]

Are you ****ing kidding? Inception, Gladiator, Rain Man, The Lion King, Batman Begins and countless other scores are completely forgettable? He made those from scratch, influences from other pieces yes but primarily it was influence from HIS work that he used.

The theme is great we all agree on that but changing it does not change the character in anyway.



SO I didnt grow up watching the movies? I don't know if your aware but Elfman's theme was the basis for TAS theme song by Shirley Walker. SO it was around a little longer than five years and parts of it are heard in all 4 of the original films, its just as iconic as Superman and if you hear it no one says "oh who's theme is that?". Don't sell that theme short.

I do not want change for changes sake, I want change because I want a new sound for Superman and I do not want to have to think of the reeves films every time I watch the new one. Its plain and simple. I respect what Williams did but even Potter has moved past just playing Hedwigs theme over and over again. Zimmer is more than qualified to make and awesome score that he doesnt need to pay hommage. By clinging to Williams the way you are you're asking for more of the same as far as the Superman movies have gone.

1. To be perfectly honest I was dissapointed when the original Elfman was no longer being used. That didn't make Nolan's Batman's suck, but I think they would have better if it included the Elfman stuff a bit more. The music is about defining the character, and when you get a theme that defines the heroism of the character perfectly, you should not just throw it away.

2. YES, most of those themes you mentioned are forgettable. 20 years down the line very few people are going to remember them. I've watched Gladiator at least 20 times and I don't remember **** of that score. They're no where near as catchy as Williams' scores are. That's because Zimmer's score are never a prominent aspect of the story telling ...never (like I said, only a nice compliment). Williams, Elfman, Silvistri, Goldsmith---they know how to make momumental themes. Not Zimmer.

3. We have to admit that the Reeve films were very formative. Yes, we do need to move past them. Superman needs to be updated by fighting more contemporary and realistic threats. But the character, at its bone, does not need to be updated. The Williams theme, independently of Reeve movies, got at the bone of the character.

[aaronw]

Wow I can't believe you actually typed that. Considering you think the Elfman theme is so forgettable its funny that its appeard in more forms of media then the beloved williams theme. Batman the animated series used it, which is arguably more popular then 4 of the superman movies no one cares about. Not to mention lego batman recently used the theme last year post Nolan batman. I understand that the williams theme is close to a lot of people and I respect that, but lets not delude ourselves into thinking another theme won't work, or that the elfman theme wasn't important because last time I checked the 1989 batman movie was a cultural phenomenon. For a theme that is so popular why did superman man the animated series not use it, or smallville. Did lois and clark even use the theme?

Yeah, I went a little far disparaging the elfman theme. It was iconic. And because of that I'm sad that it wasn't continued to be used, at least little more, in the Nolan films. Oh, and last I checked, Batman TAS only incorporated elements from it.

As far as other recent superman media goes, Superman TAS did incorporate elements, lois and clark just sucked, and smallville DID use the theme (there's arguably no primary score for smallville, just that pop song they play in intro)

By the way, I've heard the Superman theme played at far more public events than the Elfman theme, such as on the 4th of july.

Another theme might work, but my skepticism is warrented. Look at it this way, if at some point they remade star wars, wouldn't it seem wrong not to incorporate the same main title theme? The James Bond directors did the right thing. A theme was introduced that really captured the essence of the character, and they kept with it.

[byte19]

it amazes me how Hans' pissed on by you lot when he has over 100 scores under his belt, an Oscar, 2 Golden Globes, several Grammys, and themes heard in radio, and T.V. besides films. And He has said time and time again his faves are Morriconne, Barry, Goldsmith AND Williams... But because he has the ability to do what the legends do, you knock him: 'he's forgettable' 'he uses no real themes' 'he has way talented composers around him' you hear bout John's proteges? no. because there aren't any! Hans gives up and coming composers, like myself one day, to do what he does: make music. I won't say give the man a chance... you got no choice in the matter, he's scoring, John ain't.
Here Endeth The Lesson.

[Gamma Ray]

Just as Batman got a new theme, so too should Superman.

[CLARKY]

Most of us love the original John Williams Superman score, especially the title march. It is supremely iconic and has become synonymous with Superman himself.
Yes. Yes completely. He should completely "borrow", re-interprat, re-imagined, re-use, whatever, the Superman march. For me the key word is re-interpretation. I think he should be aware of the importance of the Superman march and just reinterpret it, in some ways, depending of the need of the movie; It does not mean that they should copy Donner in every ways.

[Krumm]

My head says, "Of course not. That would be silly. He should do it his way."

My heart says, "Keep the march. Keep the march. Keep the march... etc."

Needless to say, I'm conflicted.

[Hush]

1. To be perfectly honest I was dissapointed when the original Elfman was no longer being used. That didn't make Nolan's Batman's suck, but I think they would have better if it included the Elfman stuff a bit more. The music is about defining the character, and when you get a theme that defines the heroism of the character perfectly, you should not just throw it away.

2. YES, most of those themes you mentioned are forgettable. 20 years down the line very few people are going to remember them. I've watched Gladiator at least 20 times and I don't remember **** of that score. They're no where near as catchy as Williams' scores are. That's because Zimmer's score are never a prominent aspect of the story telling ...never (like I said, only a nice compliment). Williams, Elfman, Silvistri, Goldsmith---they know how to make momumental themes. Not Zimmer.

3. We have to admit that the Reeve films were very formative. Yes, we do need to move past them. Superman needs to be updated by fighting more contemporary and realistic threats. But the character, at its bone, does not need to be updated. The Williams theme, independently of Reeve movies, got at the bone of the character.

1. Your right we shouldn't throw away a perfectly good theme but if you are trying to REBOOT a character why would you keep what was old? Superman not only needs a on screen presence he needs a new atmosphere for his films! Music is in movies to create Atmosphere and the only way to get a new one and not feel like we are catering to the wants of an older generation of films is to give him a new sound.

2. I don't even know where to start, Inception would not have had the Gravitas that it did if you had someone else score it, or if you would not have had that Zimmer sound. The Lion King would not be what it has become today if you don't include the music in that movie, there is a reason its one of the top grossing Disney Movies and was adapted to a BROADWAY MUSICAL. Gladiators and Batman Begins Scores stand out to me because they are so big and epic, the perfect feel for those movies. I remember them and when I hear notes from them I know the movie immediately.

3. You say we have to move past the reeves movies but you still want to cling to the "bone" of the character in his score. This is just silly. Williams is a great composer and God knows he will go down as one of the greatest if not THE GREATEST but just like rock and roll, songs die out. It will always be a golden oldie but it's just that OLD. I hate change but this is a new Era for Superman shouldn't he be allowed some new music? New Actor, New Director, New Score? Just get your old age bias out of the equation and think about the kids of today, shouldn't they be allowed to grow up with a new theme for their Superman?

[GreenKToo]

As much as I love the williams score, for my part I have to say no. It's a reboot afterall.

[Rust]

Pointless thread. It's already been established that it's a "reinvention".

Accept it and move on, please.

[The Sage]

Brand new score, though I wouldn't mind hearing a few familiar notes. But it's not a need. Brand new music to establish a brand new Superman.

[afan]

Brand new score.......

I love the Williams theme, but I also equally love the themes from the Fleischer cartoons and the Reeves 50s series. They all are iconic Superman to me and if Zimmer can add one more to that Hall of Fame all the better.

[romeogbs19]

Drop the Williams theme.

While I'm not sure whether Zimmer can top Williams, I'm 100% sure that we don't need to keep dragging Superman into his 70s/80s films.

This is a reboot; it's a fresh start. Snyder's Superman is his own and the music should reflect that.

[solidsnake86]

Yes. Yes completely. He should completely "borrow", re-interprat, re-imagined, re-use, whatever, the Superman march. For me the key word is re-interpretation. I think he should be aware of the importance of the Superman march and just reinterpret it, in some ways, depending of the need of the movie; It does not mean that they should copy Donner in every ways.

Here's the problem I have with this though, if they do keep certain elements the first thing everyone says is williams theme can't be topped and its better. So why bother using it in the first place if its only going to be second best. I thought Ottoman did a great job but apparentely it wasn't good enough for a lot of fans. Besides, I really think its only fans that care about the theme because if you asked a random person I doubt they could sing you the tune, without getting confused between indiana jones and star wars.

[Steyin]

Just as Batman got a new theme, so too should Superman.

Batman didn't get a new theme. We got a strong track in Molossus (the closest thing to a new theme), but only bits of it were heard in TDK. Then the TDK score doesn't establish a theme of any sort, and any time it gets close to it it fizzles out/dies down. Instead, Batman got a new "motif", not theme. I'm still waiting for a clear, well defined/epic theme, which I would hope and think fits with the premise of "Rises", but I still wouldn't bank on it.

As for Supes, I feel Zimmer would take the same approach, but given this may not be a series, he may up his game to accommodate. Again though, I'm not expecting anything near Williams' theme, but I do expect a solid score for the film.

[afan]

A question......who is responsible for "He's a Pirate"? Is it Zimmer or Badelt?

[El Payaso]

He mustn't take one single note from Williams's score. A new franchise must have a new score no matter how popular the previous one is.

[The Guard]

I think it's fairly obvious they've closed the book on Donner's Superman. SUPERMAN RETURNS paid homage to the classic music nicely, and to wonderful effect.

It's time for something new.

Some of Zimmer's work is forgetable. Zimmer's Batman score, in my opinion, doesn't come close to Elfman's Batman theme, but his score does establish a mood, and it fits the film and its emotional and action beats quite well.

I just wish he wouldn't use dadadadadadadadadada so much.

[Gianakin_]

No Williams theme. Let it be up there with the legendary pieces of cinema music and let Zimmer bring us the next one, just like he did with the new Batfilms.

[SuperDaniel]

Just make a NEW song using the vibrant happy major scale and the perfect 5th interval. Its as epic as you`ll get. LOL Star Wars, 2001, Superman from Williams all have that.

[p4poetic]

I can't believe we are still discussing this. Its not 1978 anymore, move on people, nothing to see here.

In an ideal world, the Williams Superman theme would be used forever as nothing can ever top it, never ever. But as we have to be realistic, the answer is going to be No.

Technically speaking, Hans Zimmer is not capable of even giving a good rendition of the Williams theme as he is not a trained composer like Williams.

But what Zimmer is good at is creating new sounds and textures, and music which will suit the movie it is in. It will probably lack any sort of melody, and will probably be a simple two or four note theme, but it will most likely work with the visuals.

IMO Zimmer's best work was with Black Rain (incidentally he reused the exact theme for Batman Begins and Dark Knight), Rain Man, Last Samurai and Gladiator.

I think Zimmer works best with dark movies, and has a distinctive sound honed over 20 years of vast experience.

Is he going to give us an epic Superman theme? The answer is No.
Is he going to give us a relatively decent theme for Snyder's superman movie? Probably yes.

If we keep expectations low, maybe he will surprise us, but then again, Zimmer hardly changes, you always know what you will get.

I doubt we will get a big brassy score like the Williams score.

the end result will be good though, maybe Zimmer might get inspired to shut the doubters up by giving us his best ever score! we can only hope!

Wow you sure know a lot of stuff. Do you know how many licks it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop too?

[General Vulcun]

Zimmer's score doesn't have to use elements of Williams' theme or even try to top Williams' theme. It just has to be Superman. If the score does that, and does it well, then there's no reason why it shouldn't have a decent shot at being remembered alongside Williams' score.

Hell, look at his work on Nolan's Batman films. Obviously Zimmer isn't dealing with a clear-cut iconic Batman march like what Elfman did. In fact, there are several aspects of his score that relate to Batman but don't exactly paint a clear picture of what the main theme is. But isn't Zimmer's Batman score still very much "Batman"? I listen to Zimmer's score all the time, and even though it isn't as catchy & doesn't stick with you the same way Elfman's score initially did, I still come away thinking "this is Batman." Isn't that all that matters, really?

I can't say for sure whether or not Zimmer can give the new Superman what he needs. I can say that I completely trust Zimmer until proven wrong, though. There's really no reason to attack a guy's work on a film when ideas are still being engraved this early in production. I mean, you can express concern based on previous works, but to say "Zimmer will do this" or "that" when he hasn't even recorded a single note so far is confusing, because it's just that: there ISN'T a score to judge yet.

[Gianakin_]

I still can't get "Like a dog chasing cars" out of my head. Its sheer epicness surpasses everything Elfman did for Batman (imo). I sure hope it reapperas in TDKR.

[daywalker2007]

I can't believe we are still discussing this. Its not 1978 anymore, move on people, nothing to see here.



Wow you sure know a lot of stuff. Do you know how many licks it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop too?

No, but your mom did tell me last night, it was a really infomative session.:oldrazz::woot:

[The Squirrel]

Completely new score to help further separate it from the other films. :up:

[byte19]

A question......who is responsible for "He's a Pirate"? Is it Zimmer or Badelt?
Zimmer.Most of the main themes are Zimmer's (Pirate, Jack Sparrow) Klaus simply took those themes and composed around them...
let's not forgot... It may say Music Composed by Hans Zimmer... but he gives his fiends and co-workers all the credit they richly deserve...

[DoomGeneration]

while it won't get better for me than superman returns' use of a choir with the 1979 smallville theme

but if there's gonna a previous film that hans borrows from i hope it's the pearl harbor soundtrack.

http://www.youtube.com/v/uVbwaHTuLvE?fs=1&hl=en_US
http://www.youtube.com/v/2s35zHdAYd8?fs=1&hl=en_US

but it has to be a three note theme announces superman syllablicly as have just about all superman themes have done since the 1940s

edit: what does a guy have to do to get this youtube tag to work?

[FVD]

Absolutely NOT!!! I know that Zimmer has the potential to craft a memorable theme. Heck The Rock and Crimson Tide is still memorable to these ears of mine...

[rob-el2]

I would like to see, for the most part, all new scoring. One exception though. For the first shirt rip (and I certainly hope we get a great rip a la Reeve in the first movie) I would like to see the Williams music integrated in homage. It doesn't have to be exactly the same but close enough that when you start to hear it build up you know what's coming.

[FVD]

And with Zack Snyder in the Director's Chair I'm already imagining a huge bombastic score! I'm certain Zimmer is more than capable of such a task!!!

[Showtime]

I personally think they are going to feature the Williams score in some fashion. Not sure if it will be the "main theme", but I imagine it will appear in some capacity.

My opinion is that they should use the theme, the general public connects it with Superman. I'm not saying it is needed for Superman to be a successful film, but it is a very very recognizable theme.

[El Payaso]

Well, people connect Donner's universe with Superman. That's why they're still depicting the FoS with crystals.

[bgshw44]

I personally think they are going to feature the Williams score in some fashion. Not sure if it will be the "main theme", but I imagine it will appear in some capacity.

My opinion is that they should use the theme, the general public connects it with Superman. I'm not saying it is needed for Superman to be a successful film, but it is a very very recognizable theme.


agree 100 percent,very comparable to the james bond theme, works throught the ages.

[Tra-El]

Damn guys, what's the point in hiring Zimmer if he's going to be using the Williams score? "Hey man, we want you to come in and do the theme for Superman. Just come in, look pretty and just hit "play" for the Williams score. Thanks!"

No, it's common sense. This movie is a re-boot and EVERYTHING should be changed. The Williams score defined the Superman franchise in the 80's and will always be linked, but there's 5 movies with the Williams score, it's time to move onto fresh and better things in 2010. Thank God.

[BH/HHH]

I love the Williams theme but it is time to move on and create new music for the modern reinvention.

[Cousin Itt]

I hope they play Williams theme at least in the begging or the end.

The theme is too epic to be left out.

[hippie_hunter]

I feel that Zimmer needs to take a lesson from the animated series of Batman and Superman in the 90's. The themes of Batman and Superman feel very inspired by the themes that Danny Elfman and John Williams (which IMO are the definitive themes of those characters), yet they were still their own.

The problem with the scores in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight was that the score just didn't feel very Batman-like. He needs to make the new Superman theme it's own, but he needs to take inspiration from John Williams the way Shirley Walker has.

And you also have to add in the fact that the Donner Superman movies are extremely influential to the Superman mythos. Snyder's Superman needs some Donner influences.

[Showtime]

agree 100 percent,very comparable to the james bond theme, works throught the ages.

Right exactly. Great analogy.

Damn guys, what's the point in hiring Zimmer if he's going to be using the Williams score? "Hey man, we want you to come in and do the theme for Superman. Just come in, look pretty and just hit "play" for the Williams score. Thanks!"

No, it's common sense. This movie is a re-boot and EVERYTHING should be changed. The Williams score defined the Superman franchise in the 80's and will always be linked, but there's 5 movies with the Williams score, it's time to move onto fresh and better things in 2010. Thank God.

If he did end up doing his own version of the Williams score, you realize there is a plethora of other songs he would be developing for the movie.

[batman44]

If Zimmer is to borrow anything from the previous Superman stuff, I'd prefer it be Sammy Timberg's Superman theme from the Max Fleischer series. It's actually my personal favorite of the all the musical themes used for Superman.

[aaronw]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HANS ZIMMER IS NOT DOING SUPERMAN

http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/111461-hans-zimmer-to-score-superman


"Claiming the rumor is "some dirty quote taken out of context," Zimmer affirms that he has no plans to score Superman, likening attempting to improve John Williams' original theme to "rewriting Beethoven’s ninth.""

That's is precisely correct. Attempting to give Superman some music that will top the John Williams theme is precisely like trying to rewrite Beethoven's ninth.

the John Williams theme IS Superman.

Get used to it people.

[Rust]

Who's talking about a rewrite?

It's a new score which is a compLETELY different thing!

A rewrite is where you use the existing music and... well, rewrite it. Make it alternate. It's self-explanatory. Execpt, this would not be the case with a new score, so I dont know why Zimmer would say that.

A rewrite is what we DONT want, but kinda got in SR, but then again not really because Ottman didnt make it his own imo.

[jmart]

Who's talking about a rewrite?

It's a new score which is a compLETELY different thing!

A rewrite is where you use the existing music and... well, rewrite it. Make it alternate. It's self-explanatory. Execpt, this would not be the case with a new score, so I dont know why Zimmer would say that.

A rewrite is what we DONT want, but kinda got in SR, but then again not really because Ottman didnt make it his own imo.

I don't think that's what he meant. I think he means that someone attempting to give Superman NEW music and top John Williams would be about as impossible as rewriting Beethoven's ninth.

And I agree with him...at least with the main title march. That should be in the film in some way. As much as I love Williams' complete score, I don't think it's necessary for the new composer (as much as I would love Williams to come back, if he turned down SR, he's not doing this new movie) to rewrite the score like Ottman did.

I wouldn't mind if the new composer did something similar to what David Arnold did with Casino Royale - holding off on the Bond theme until the character earned it - except instead of that, hold off (main credits included) until he's done with that "crisis" he has and returns as Superman again (if that is in fact what happens). Or if that doesn't happen, I'd be perfectly fine with the main theme at the beginning and then a completely new score with hints of the theme for the rest of the film. The new composer doesn't have to duplicate the "Love" theme, the "Villain" theme, "Smallville" theme, "Krypton" theme, etc.

To get rid of the main theme though I think would be a big mistake. I don't understand why there can be a "best of both worlds" situation.

[aaronw]

I don't think that's what he meant. I think he means that someone attempting to give Superman NEW music and top John Williams would be about as impossible as rewriting Beethoven's ninth.

And I agree with him...at least with the main title march. That should be in the film in some way. As much as I love Williams' complete score, I don't think it's necessary for the new composer (as much as I would love Williams to come back, if he turned down SR, he's not doing this new movie) to rewrite the score like Ottman did.

I wouldn't mind if the new composer did something similar to what David Arnold did with Casino Royale - holding off on the Bond theme until the character earned it - except instead of that, hold off (main credits included) until he's done with that "crisis" he has and returns as Superman again (if that is in fact what happens). Or if that doesn't happen, I'd be perfectly fine with the main theme at the beginning and then a completely new score with hints of the theme for the rest of the film. The new composer doesn't have to duplicate the "Love" theme, the "Villain" theme, "Smallville" theme, "Krypton" theme, etc.

To get rid of the main theme though I think would be a big mistake. I don't understand why there can be a "best of both worlds" situation.

TOTALLY AGREE!

I really don't get some of the people around here.

Why would the use of the John Williams march hinder your enjoyment of a new Superman movie? Sure, it will remind you of the Donner films, but ANYTHING in a new Superman movie will remind you of those movies, unless they change EVERYTHING.

Should we also get rid of the cape, because it was in the Donner films? Should we get rid of Lois Lane? the Daily Planet?

Granted that music was created with and for the Donner films, but EVERY element of Superman was created at some point by some comic, t.v., movie, etc.. Should have Superman's ability to fly been cut out of the Donner films because it would remind people of the May 1943 issue of action comics? Should Lex Luthor no longer be Superman's arch-nemisis because it will remind people of Action Comics #23?

The John Williams theme was an addition to the character, to Superman, that should stick. Just like every other addition to character that has stuck should have stuck. It was better when Superman was given the power to fly. It was better when Lex Luthor became an evil corporate businessman in the late 80's.

People, using the Williams theme will work in a new movie. I have failed to hear any good arguments why it won't.

[Vaibow]

In my opinion, you'll never find a theme to fit a super hero quite like the Williams theme.

James Bond is a perfect example, new actors, new story line, new origins, same theme tune. Did it remind you of previous actors? Not me, just reminded me i was watching a James Bond film (which was needed for Quantum of Solace - imho).

Superman, the package includes the Williams theme.

Dare i say it, if begins and the Dark Knight had hints of the '89 theme, it would have been complete.

[storyteller]

This is he problem with using the theme. The Theme is no inherent to the character but to a director. Yeah they could get away with using the theme. Honestly I doubt people will be pushed away by the Williams theme. Its worked for Bond. But with Bond, it works because they used it for all the films. We were force fed the theme to the point that no director has tried to really get away from it. Casino Royal made an attempt to hold off to the very end. You can't really envision another theme because 5 of the movie used the same score.

I prefer the Dark Knight score over the Burton stuff. It fits the mood better. I can't see them using the new score for the Burton films for the same reason.

Your going too far with you argument that removing the score is akin to removing Supermans cape. I don't need to here the score to enjoy the Superman media. But the score needs Superman to enjoy it.

If they want to have originality without stepping on what really is Superman(his powers, clothing, cast) then they need to come up with a new theme.

[Sentinel X]

^ Exactly. A score is used to enhance a movie. William's theme was great for Donner's movies but that doesn't mean they will work here. We've been told this film will have a darker and more serious tone....that alone calls for a new theme, imo. Trying to force the theme in just because you like williams is nonsense. Go listen to the score if thats the case. This is a whole new vision of Superman...lets not dwell on the past.

Also, as much as I love Burton's Batman theme...it would've been TERRIBLE in Nolan's films. Thank God they made the right decision.

[Nightwing1983]

While I have been neutral on whether or not Williams' theme should be used for the film; all the naysayers have turned me against them. I hope they use it just to show that they can. And yes, I'd also be happy if the original theme (from the radio series and '40s cartoons) made an appearance.

"Oh, but what if the film's darker and more serious..." please! The first 45-minutes-or-so of the first film was extremely serious--even a little dark--and any melody can be given a "darker" arrangement. Besides, hopefully it's not SO dark that it doesn't admit a triumphant three-note theme at any point. It's Superman.

[KyleDW2]

While I have been neutral on whether or not Williams' theme should be used for the film; all the naysayers have turned me against them. I hope they use it just to show that they can. And yes, I'd also be happy if the original theme (from the radio series and '40s cartoons) made an appearance.

"Oh, but what if the film's darker and more serious..." please! The first 45-minutes-or-so of the first film was extremely serious--even a little dark--and any melody can be given a "darker" arrangement. Besides, hopefully it's not SO dark that it doesn't admit a triumphant three-note theme at any point. It's Superman.

"Let's use the old theme out of spite!" Oh yes, that's the right foot to start a new Superman series on...

As others have said, this is a new series. That means new actors, new costumes, new sets, new storyline, new theme. It doesn't mean that the old theme isn't good or anything. Its just not this series' theme. Isn't that fair?

[Nightwing1983]

"Let's use the old theme out of spite!" Oh yes, that's the right foot to start a new Superman series on...

It's not spite. It's called being proud of the character's past. Try it sometime.

As others have said, this is a new series. That means new actors, new costumes, new sets, new storyline, new theme. It doesn't mean that the old theme isn't good or anything. Its just not this series' theme. Isn't that fair?

Oh, definitely, especially coming from you. But since we're sitting here being fair, would it kill you if they used it for even just a brief moment like in The Goonies or Seinfeld as sort-of an homage just to show that it's all part of a great legacy?

[Gianakin_]

No Williams theme please. They need to differentiate the new take as much as they can from the Donner films, just like Nolan's films did with the Burton films.

[Nightwing1983]

No Williams theme please. They need to differentiate the new take as much as they can from the Donner films, just like Nolan's films did with the Burton films.

This is why I want them to keep it. All these people talking about differentiation just for the sake of differentiation. Most reboots acknowledge earlier versions' themes (Trek, 007) and it doesn't have anything to do with the internal canon or whatever; so there's absolutely no reason to lose it.

After all, Zimmer himself said he wasn't looking forward to trying to top it.

I say it's time for a little music-appreciation lesson.

Edit: Also, if you're planning to talk about how it'll ill-appeal to "the general audience," save it. It's an extremely popular theme--much more-so than the original Trek theme--that does come to mind to casual fans, and has been featured on one of the world's most popular sitcoms.

[KyleDW2]

This is why I want them to keep it. All these people talking about differentiation just for the sake of differentiation. Most reboots acknowledge earlier versions' themes (Trek, 007) and it doesn't have anything to do with the internal canon or whatever; so there's absolutely no reason to lose it.

After all, Zimmer himself said he wasn't looking forward to trying to top it.

I say it's time for a little music-appreciation lesson.

Edit: Also, if you're planning to talk about how it'll ill-appeal to "the general audience," save it. It's an extremely popular theme--much more-so than the original Trek theme--that does come to mind to casual fans, and has been featured on one of the world's most popular sitcoms.

This utter worship of the Donner movies has to stop. It's been 30 years guys. Why can't some of you fans give the guys making the new movies permission to move on? Batman severed all ties, that worked out pretty well. I'm sure the Spider-Man reboot will have little to do with Raimi's Spider-Man movies.

Come on guys. The first two movies were okay. But really, isn't it time to move on? Why are we so afraid to try something new?

[batlovescatDC]

Love talking about the score but there is a score thread.... and now that Zimmer has confirmed that he ISN'T composing the score for The Man of Steel, I think this thread can be closed.

[Nightwing1983]

Funny how you mention Spider-Man. Didn't the theme song to the original animated series from, like, 1967 make an appearance, both at the end of the credits AND in the movie itself as something someone was playing in the film itself?

:whatever:

But anyway, Kyle, I've figured out why you do what you do. See, you know that there's no "hero worship" of "the Donner movies" (what a stupid thing to call them) and that nobody's objecting to "doing something new." You're just trying to paint me this way and act like there's this "old boy network" of fans who can't accept anything new so you can look open-minded.

Are you?

Hell no.

Now, in all honestly, I believe that if the song made an appearance in the film, that you'd probably have no problem with it. But in the meantime, you'll raise Hell over it when battling me because you just want to play this game.

The fundamental difference between you and me is that I became a fan of Superman because of his history. You became a "fan" (and I use the term loosely) because you're obsessed with this us-verses-them thing. If there were no controversy over a reboot and there were no "pre-Crisis/post-Crisis," and no other "old vs new" thing going on, you'd pull a Michael Hutchence because that's the main reason you're a "fan."

Now, allow me to reiterate one thing: if it weren't for people like you and your attitude; I wouldn't care either way. Obviously this means you need to work on your methods of persuasion.

[KyleDW2]

Love talking about the score but there is a score thread.... and now that Zimmer has confirmed that he ISN'T composing the score for The Man of Steel, I think this thread can be closed.

You know, I never actually notice that. Merge then?

[Alonsovich]

You'll possibly throw to my face that he did BF and B&R... but I absolutely love Elliot Goldenthal's scores for Final Fantasy, Alien 3 and Heat. I somehow think the style of these scores would be fantastic for a new Supes movie. As a little example:

CgFvMYHfD9Q


Fantastic piece of music IMO... amazing composer when he's not told blatantly to write corny and stupid music.

[Nightwing1983]

You'll possibly throw to my face that he did BF and B&R... but I absolutely love Elliot Goldenthal's scores for Final Fantasy, Alien 3 and Heat. I somehow think the style of these scores would be fantastic for a new Supes movie. As a little example:

CgFvMYHfD9Q


Fantastic piece of music IMO... amazing composer when he's not told blatantly to write corny and stupid music.

Oddly enough, I loved Batman Forever, but thought his score was mediocre.

[Alonsovich]

Oddly enough, I loved Batman Forever, but thought his score was mediocre.

His both Batman scores suck, honestly... but that's about it. He's pretty much nailed the rest of his output in a very solid way. Alien 3, FF, Heat... all amazing music. If we got Goldenthal and got something similar to one of those films, the score would be full of win... :up:

[Gianakin_]

This is why I want them to keep it. All these people talking about differentiation just for the sake of differentiation.

What's wrong with that approach? It worked for Batman, and avoiding it is partly what made SR have a lukewarm reception by the audience.

Most reboots acknowledge earlier versions' themes (Trek, 007) and it doesn't have anything to do with the internal canon or whatever; so there's absolutely no reason to lose it.

I'll give you Bond, but not Star Trek. And Star Trek used the lesser (in terms of popularity) theme and not the iconic Goldsmith one (which is now the equivalent to the Superman Williams theme), so what does that tell you?

Even then, Bond was a movie franchise that in time has established it's a 100% separate entity from the books, whereas Superman fans are crying for a movie closer to the comics. That alone makes the situation different. Superman needs to harken back to the comics and not the Donner films and, like it or not, the Williams theme is a Donner thing, just like the Elfman Bat-theme is a Burton thing. I don't want the music to transcend the version. That's why I don't want the TAS theme, the Williams theme, the Lois & Clark theme.

After all, Zimmer himself said he wasn't looking forward to trying to top it.

I say it's time for a little music-appreciation lesson.

Nobody denies the genius of the Williams score, let alone me. I worship the guy and everything he's offered to the world of music. Don't assume that mine and other people's wish to move on has anything to do with any kind of unappreciation to Williams.

Edit: Also, if you're planning to talk about how it'll ill-appeal to "the general audience," save it. It's an extremely popular theme--much more-so than the original Trek theme--that does come to mind to casual fans, and has been featured on one of the world's most popular sitcoms.

I have no wish to talk about the appeal, I don't see the point. Batman moved on from Elfman, and so should Superman from Williams. Simple as that.

[Nightwing1983]

What's wrong with that approach? It worked for Batman, and avoiding it is partly what made SR have a lukewarm reception by the audience.

Yeah, but I don't think that simply using the Elfman theme would have hurt the film. As for SR, well, I don't think it's the fact that they used the theme, the look of the Fortress and--well--everything except Lois' bodytype and Superman's costume; I think that it's the fact that every other line was some cutesy "homage" to the first film. It was just overkill.

Also, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight were GOOD whereas Superman Returns was BAD.

I'll give you Bond, but not Star Trek. And Star Trek used the lesser (in terms of popularity) theme and not the iconic Goldsmith one (which is now the equivalent to the Superman Williams theme), so what does that tell you?

Tells me nothing. True, I'd much rather they used the Goldsmith tune, and for that matter, I didn't really care for the new music just as music; so ultimately, I just consider it a movie with disappointing music. That said, the fact remains that they did utilize the original theme at the end of the film and I don't think it hurt.

Even then, Bond was a movie franchise that in time has established it's a 100% separate entity from the books, whereas Superman fans are crying for a movie closer to the comics. That alone makes the situation different. Superman needs to harken back to the comics and not the Donner films and, like it or not, the Williams theme is a Donner thing, just like the Elfman Bat-theme is a Burton thing. I don't want the music to transcend the version. That's why I don't want the TAS theme, the Williams theme, the Lois & Clark theme.

Fatal flaw: assuming that the music is somehow contradictory to making it closer to the comics.

Unless they have no music in the film at all (which I sincerely doubt) whatever happens, you--as an individual--are going to have to make a choice: is this music somehow "closer to the comics," or is it just another score which may or may not fit, and may or may not be memorable; but in either case, serves the same function as everything else, which is establishing this filmmaker's own vision of what he sees?

Heck, since we DO have the precedent of the more recent Batman films, I can ask you: are you saying that the music in them somehow fits the comics (1939-present) better (in an indisputable way) or is it just more music for what that filmmaker was trying to do for that film?

Finally, while I liked the L&C theme quite a bit, I was never big on the TAS theme, and I think part of it is that it just sounded like it was trying too hard to substitute for the Williams theme. I can accept that being on a smaller budget they probably couldn't afford it; so here's the deal: if they absolutely don't want the theme because it won't fit, then whatever, but I really hope they don't just write some other three-note theme that might as well have been that.

Edit: Finally (really, this time), if you want to play this game of, "film vs literature" or whatever; I should remind you that Casino Royale was also more similar to the novels than the previous Bond films (except for Daltons, which is ironic since they weren't using the source material for inspiration as much) and so, once again, this doesn't quite hold up.

Nobody denies the genius of the Williams score, let alone me. I worship the guy and everything he's offered to the world of music. Don't assume that mine and other people's wish to move on has anything to do with any kind of unappreciation to Williams.

Well, okay, that was kind-of unfair, I apologize.

I have no wish to talk about the appeal, I don't see the point. Batman moved on from Elfman, and so should Superman from Williams. Simple as that.

And again, there's this concept of "moving on." It's not about that. I mean, if they don't use it, they don't use it; but this idea that they can't use anything from those films is just silly. After-all, Batman didn't "move on" from the black armor.

[KyleDW2]

Tells me nothing. True, I'd much rather they used the Goldsmith tune, and for that matter, I didn't really care for the new music just as music; so ultimately, I just consider it a movie with disappointing music. That said, the fact remains that they did utilize the original theme at the end of the film and I don't think it hurt.

Its odd that you think people wanting the theme somehow equates to them wanting it playing during the end credits like the old Spider-Man theme. Hell, I wouldn't mind if they did that. But its a new movie series and it needs its own theme. Superman Returns, for better or worse, poisoned the well of the Donner films. Its time for a clean break, a brand new thing that does everything new. Why can't we get that? And again, why can't some Superman fans just let the past go, or at the very least give something new a shot?

[Nightwing1983]

Its odd that you think people wanting the theme somehow equates to them wanting it playing during the end credits like the old Spider-Man theme. Hell, I wouldn't mind if they did that. But its a new movie series and it needs its own theme.

Great, then there isn't much to argue about, is there? :whatever:

Oh wait.

Superman Returns, for better or worse, poisoned the well of the Donner films. Its time for a clean break, a brand new thing that does everything new.

But Kyle, Superman Returns poisoned that well for people like you. I think a lot of people just simply don't see it in those terms. Superman Returns isn't a "Donner movie," anyway, but that's a subject for another sermon.

Why can't we get that?

:whatever: Gee, I thought we were. After-all, wasn't that what you were bragging about?

No, but seriously: there is no "clean break" that "does everything new." EVERY reboot has some element of the previous series still around. Yes, even Batman. Even the Batman films maintained the idea of the black armor for the character.

Why? Because they still want the audience for the previous films, even if some fanboy thinks they're "dated" or "unfaithful."

After-all, not everyone hates those films as much as you do.

And that's not even getting into the fact that even if the point of this were to "rebel" against those films--as you clearly want it to be--it's still an adaptation of a comic book series that's been around since 1938. Nothing changes that. So the fact that it's about this super powered alien named Superman in a red & blue costume who's really a bespectacled journalist named Clark Kent and has a love triangle with a colleague named Lois Lane means... yup... it's not new.

Sorry.

And again, why can't some Superman fans just let the past go,

Because it's his past that makes him who he is. The real question is how can Superman fans want to let the past go?

or at the very least give something new a shot?

Hey, you know I'm all for giving something new a shot. I just don't want it to come at the expense of his history. Just because someone wants to preserve something old doesn't mean they don't want anything new.

After-all, you can reboot, revamp, reimagine, reinvent and retool Superman all you want; he's still that character that was created in 1938. And nothing will ever change that.

[docdoc]

Here's the thing, isn't Burton's Batman theme the classic as well?? Still nothing stays in Nolan's movies, because they just simply NOT match.

I know people love that theme, it's john williams, STAR WARS, Harry Potter....which of them aint nice/super super classic?? Yet you don't know what's the new style of superman, and logically, I don't see how John Williams's theme come to match Zack Snyder's style.

[byte19]

so let me get this right: "Attempting to Rewriting Williams' Theme is like Attempting to Rewriting Beethoven's Ninth." so what you guys are saying is this... Williams is better than Zimmer.... but BEETHOVEN is better than Williams? seriously? wonderful appreciation of music with THAT ideology... No one is better than NO ONE!!! if that's the case... Jesus is better than God... see how stupid that sounds?

[Whiskey Tango]

I understand the need to move on and distance this iteration of Supes from the previous version but there's no way in hell Zimmer is coming up with anything even half as iconic as Williams score. One can argue that ditching the classic music is necessary, but I think it'll also feel like a very important element is missing.

[Sgt.Pepper]

Hans Zimmer isn't doing the score for Man of Steel right? If he is then that will be great.

But I hope Tyler Bates isn't doing the score because I don't think he is up to the task. Anyway, hopefully they announce soon who will be the composer for Man of Steel.

[Whiskey Tango]

Hans Zimmer isn't doing the score for Man of Steel right? If he is then that will be great.

But I hope Tyler Bates isn't doing the score because I don't think he is up to the task. Anyway, hopefully they announce soon who will be the composer for Man of Steel.

I dunno, I just assumed from the thread title that he was.

[Sgt.Pepper]

I think it's because Nolan is the producer for Man of Steel that people assumed that Zimmer is the composer. :o

[DorkyFresh]

I dunno, I just assumed from the thread title that he was.
that's why skimming through the last few pages helps before posting in a thread. Zimmer conducting this score was a rumor that was debunked by Zimmer, himself, a while ago...

[Whiskey Tango]

that's why skimming through the last few pages helps before posting in a thread.

Damn. Schooled. Guess I'll turn in my interwebs card. :o

It doesn't matter who's doing the duties. I'll feel the same way regardless. I wouldn't reboot Star Wars or Indiana Jones with different music either.

[El Payaso]

Damn. Schooled. Guess I'll turn in my interwebs card. :o

It doesn't matter who's doing the duties. I'll feel the same way regardless. I wouldn't reboot Star Wars or Indiana Jones with different music either.

You donj't reboot those at all. Both franchises are children of their creators (both characters created by George Lucas and taken to the screen by him) whereas comic book characters that have been there for decades have been approached very different through years. And that's why those have always had the same score.

I don't think you could ever reboot Star Wars or Indiana Jones without Lucas behind it, or some direct descendant. It's hardy the case of Superman, whose creators didn't have any control over him.

That is why the Raimi's Spiderman franchise didn't use the cartoons song, Nolan's Batman did't use Elfman score and that's why a Superman franchise that's different from Donner's franchise should use a different score.

[Whiskey Tango]

Well I don't expect to change anyone's mind and no one is going to change mine so I guess we are at an impasse.

[Astrodust]

How far back did you have to go to resurrect this thread?

[Whiskey Tango]

3 or 4 pages. Last I checked, there wasn't any rule against it. I had planned to start one with a new poll, but then someone would have *****ed about that too.

[Astrodust]

3 or 4 pages. Last I checked, there wasn't any rule against it. I had planned to start one with a new poll, but then someone would have *****ed about that too.

A lot can change in 3 or 4 pages. I believe there was a Joe Manganiello rumor awhile back.

[DorkyFresh]

Damn. Schooled. Guess I'll turn in my interwebs card. :o

It doesn't matter who's doing the duties. I'll feel the same way regardless. I wouldn't reboot Star Wars or Indiana Jones with different music either.
haha, i didn't mean to school anyone...just sayin', i've made some of those mistakes too but i learned that skimming the previous page at least catches you up on the latest news and topic of discussion.

as for using the old theme, i love it to death and it's undeniably Superman...but i also feel that it's time to move on and let Superman evolve. Indiana Jones and Star Wars are bad examples if you ask me because not only were the more modern movies inferior to the earlier ones, but also because Indiana Jones and Star Wars were first concieved as movies...not novels, comics or any other literature.

a more appropriate comparison would be James Bond, since he was first a character from a novel turned movie that uses the same theme despite multiple actors. however, i'd argue that James Bond's theme is a lot more action friendly and versatile. it's a theme that you can use whether he's running after a bad guy or sipping on his vodka martini. William's Superman theme, while being iconic, is more romantic and doesn't lend itself well to actions scenes especially modern ones. Bond's theme can be changed to match the pace of the action and it never sounds weird, but if you play Superman's theme too quickly it sounds forced and it STILL sounds too slow for an action sequence.

so while i respect and admire William's score to this day, considering this is supposed to be a clean slate they might as well go with an entirely new theme/score. of course, it should still feel like a Superman theme but it also should be as versatile as James Bond's theme. i honestly don't think that a new theme can be as iconic as William's theme is, but if it feels like Superman and can be used whether Superman is just floating above the city or punching through multiple enemy robots then it would be just as great!

[Whiskey Tango]

haha, i didn't mean to school anyone...just sayin', i've made some of those mistakes too but i learned that skimming the previous page at least catches you up on the latest news and topic of discussion.

as for using the old theme, i love it to death and it's undeniably Superman...but i also feel that it's time to move on and let Superman evolve. Indiana Jones and Star Wars are bad examples if you ask me because not only were the more modern movies inferior to the earlier ones, but also because Indiana Jones and Star Wars were first concieved as movies...not novels, comics or any other literature.

a more appropriate comparison would be James Bond, since he was first a character from a novel turned movie that uses the same theme despite multiple actors. however, i'd argue that James Bond's theme is a lot more action friendly and versatile. it's a theme that you can use whether he's running after a bad guy or sipping on his vodka martini. William's Superman theme, while being iconic, is more romantic and doesn't lend itself well to actions scenes especially modern ones. Bond's theme can be changed to match the pace of the action and it never sounds weird, but if you play Superman's theme too quickly it sounds forced and it STILL sounds too slow for an action sequence.

so while i respect and admire William's score to this day, considering this is supposed to be a clean slate they might as well go with an entirely new theme/score. of course, it should still feel like a Superman theme but it also should be as versatile as James Bond's theme. i honestly don't think that a new theme can be as iconic as William's theme is, but if it feels like Superman and can be used whether Superman is just floating above the city or punching through multiple enemy robots then it would be just as great!

I did skim a bit but I had just woken up so I guess I half-assed it. I should have waited until I drank more coffee.

I considered Bond but then he really hasn't been rebooted (getting tired of that term) as much as updated.

Of course a lot depends on who the new composer is. The new guy might come up with something awesome but Williams seemed like he was really on a different level in the 70's and 80's. It'll be interesting.

[DorkyFresh]

I considered Bond but then he really hasn't been rebooted (getting tired of that term) as much as updated.
well i considered Casino Royale a reboot because it basically pulled a Batman Begins.

Of course a lot depends on who the new composer is. The new guy might come up with something awesome but Williams seemed like he was really on a different level in the 70's and 80's. It'll be interesting.
the theme was certainly ahead of it's time, but as of now i consider it outdated. i'm just hoping they find a composer who doesn't necessarily try to match or outdo Williams, but just focuses on making the most Superman sounding score possible.

[El Payaso]

Well I don't expect to change anyone's mind and no one is going to change mine so...

So why post in the first place, huh?

[Doc Ock]

I love the John Williams Superman score, I hum it all the time. I also hum the theme to Superman: TAS all the time as well. I think mister amazing Hans Zimmer(is he really composing this?) should do a new score but incorporate small elements of the original score, at least I would like that. Small enough to be only noticed by certain people.

[DorkyFresh]

I love the John Williams Superman score, I hum it all the time. I also hum the theme to Superman: TAS all the time as well. I think mister amazing Hans Zimmer should do a new score but incorporate small elements of the original score, at least I would like that. Small enough to be only noticed by certain people.
:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:





edit: Can we please close this thread or at least merge it? We already have a thread dedicated to the score of the film...

[Chris B]

To me, William's Superman theme is really the only truly iconic superherp theme out there. Even Elfman's Batman isn't in the same league to me. It just doesn't seem right to completely disregard it.

But I can also understand the argument that its time for a change. I'd say just have whoever gets the composing job use the theme as a base, but update it.

[Sabaoth]

I think they won't use any of the Williams score (although I wish they would only use it and nothing else!) and I also agree, whatever Zimmer creates (if it ends up being Zimmer) may not be iconic and may end up being forgettable...but no one will care afterward.
So take a moment and say your final goodbye to the Williams score, our beloved Crystal Fortress of Solitude, the Jor El program, and other final remaining vestiges of the Chris Reeve/ Routh Superman saga, on the Smallville series finale on May 13.

After that, I'm sure they will be gone for good, except in the comics, at least for the present.

[AntMan]

Damn. Schooled. Guess I'll turn in my interwebs card. :o

It doesn't matter who's doing the duties. I'll feel the same way regardless. I wouldn't reboot Star Wars or Indiana Jones with different music either.
Superman was around in comics and TV long before 1978, so it's not really fair to compare him to characters who's lives have mostly been on film. Unlike Star Wars and Indiana Jones, Superman has had other themes. So, while the Donner theme is the most iconic it's not the only Superman theme, which is the case with the Star Wars and Jones themes.

[RoughNTumble]

topic should be closed imo

[Whiskey Tango]

So why post in the first place, huh?

Because you touch yourself at night. :o

[El Payaso]

Because you touch yourself at night. :o

Haha? :huh:

[Whiskey Tango]

...

[xmangambit]

We have to look at this way. What is the main theme that Zimmer came up with for Nolan's Batman movies? It was basically the "mollossus" theme which sticks out as the defining theme for Nolan's batman.

And this theme was actually created 16 years earlier before Batman Begins for "Black Rain".

If you don't believe me, just listen here, its the exact same theme, note for note!

Xl9jb_No1GI
So i'm curious as to what he is going to come up with for Superman. I have a sneaky feeling he might reuse something from one of his previous movies.

OMFG! How the hell???? I'm Actually speechless!!! Please don't let Hans Zimmer do this I don't want another Dark Knight theme for a superhero film, Superman is the epitome of hero films it needs that Williams score, in Superman Returns it wasn't used well at all that why it didn't stick out.

Please use Williams score!

[KalMart]

Zimmer isn't doing the score. And the Williams theme won't be used, either. So...one for two. :O

[DIRECTOR]

Michael Gianchhino should do the music!!

[KalMart]

I wouldn't be opposed to a different approach to the music altogether...something other than the de rigueur orchestral/thematic stuff throughout. Maybe more percussive/less melodic stuff, and even some hard rock combined with orchestral like he did with 300. Could be cool to give this Superman version a meaner, more impactful modern feel. But not Zimmer-like.

[El Payaso]

OMFG! How the hell???? I'm Actually speechless!!! Please don't let Hans Zimmer do this I don't want another Dark Knight theme for a superhero film, Superman is the epitome of hero films it needs that Williams score, in Superman Returns it wasn't used well at all that why it didn't stick out.

Please use Williams score!

Relax, the man is not doing the score. He admitted he wasn't capable of.

[DorkyFresh]

MODS PLEASE CLOSE OR MERGE THIS THREAD so we can avoid confusion!!!

[Whiskey Tango]

MODS PLEASE CLOSE OR MERGE THIS THREAD so we can avoid confusion!!!

Hitting the report button helps more than shouting.

[Elevator Man]

I wouldn't be opposed to a different approach to the music altogether...something other than the de rigueur orchestral/thematic stuff throughout. Maybe more percussive/less melodic stuff, and even some hard rock combined with orchestral like he did with 300. Could be cool to give this Superman version a meaner, more impactful modern feel. But not Zimmer-like.

Don't make me throw up.



And I agree this thread should of been closed the moment Zimmer debunked this terrible rumor.

[KalMart]

Don't make me throw up.



And I agree this thread should of been closed the moment Zimmer debunked this terrible rumor.

Could be a cool new direction to go with Superman movie music. Update the feel of things.

[KalMart]

But I'm sure whatever Hanz Zimmer comes up with, it'll be epic and amazing.






;)