Official UFC Thread

[Mace Bloodstone]

Hope it's full of upsets tonight! :woot:

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

People who think that the Shields and GSP fight will be full of lay and pray don't pay attention to fights. GSP always fights to his opponent's weaknesses, and for Shields that is obviously on the feet. I highly doubt that Shields could keep GSP down. If he could I wouldn't even spend my time complaining about it. I'd just praise the hell out of Shields for doing something that no one has even come close to doing, and that it's hard to submit GSP so outgrappling him would be an amazing feat.

Of course there are many MMA fans who post on message boards that don't understand sports. They think fighters should do retarded stuff instead of admiring skill. Oh well, they're only the vocal minority anyway. PPV numbers show that the ones complaining after every takedown don't matter much to the bottom line. /rant


I'm pretty sure he was busy feeding Koschek a GSP knuckle sandwich during their fight last time? Koshcheck's strength is his standup.

Although I do agree, if Shields can even manage to take GSP down that would be impressive. :up:

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Picks for tonight?

GSP via TKO
Aldo via TKO
Machida via TKO
Brilz via decision
Bendo via decision

A) Agree :up:
B) Aldo KO
C) Machida decision

[El Bastardo]

I'm pretty sure he was busy feeding Koschek a GSP knuckle sandwich during their fight last time? Koshcheck's strength is his standup.

Although I do agree, if Shields can even manage to take GSP down that would be impressive. :up:
No, Koscheck's strength is his wrestling pedigree, as was on display when GSP had a very, very difficult time getting or keeping Koscheck down.

Koscheck does have a strong stand-up game, but it's not his strength if we're speaking strictly of only one.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

No, Koscheck's strength is his wrestling pedigree, as was on display when GSP had a very, very difficult time getting or keeping Koscheck down.

Koscheck does have a strong stand-up game, but it's not his strength if we're speaking strictly of only one.

Ah I stand corrected, I was thinking Lebon. :up: I always get those two mixed up. :up:

[Paroxysm]

Whaaaaaaat!!!!

http://www.pohrani.com/f/42/gv/3vqiZibw/seagal-kick.gif

Crane Kick??????

Ouch, Randy should have swept the leg because Machida just went Karate Kid on his ass.

[Gamma Burst]

Whaaaaaaat!!!!

http://www.pohrani.com/f/42/gv/3vqiZibw/seagal-kick.gif

Crane Kick??????

Ouch, Randy should have swept the leg because Machida just went Karate Kid on his ass.

Crane Kick, indeed! Daniel -san was the first thing thate came to mind when I saw it tonight.:woot:

[E-Man]

I'm still a fan of GSP, and y'all have seen me defend him against the "Finish Brigade." I'm disappointed with him tonight. Even before the eye injury he was being far too passive against a guy who couldn't take him down and who had zombie striking. I don't care about finishes at all. His fights against Fitch, Alves, and Kos were brilliant. Tonight he just showed great footwork with nothing behind it. If Jake had better takedowns I could see him being passive, but he was the perfect opponent for a beatdown that GSP never delivered.

Regardless of that, this was a really great card. Two great barn burners in Bendo/Bocek and Aldo/Hominick. A spectacular flying triangle, and another swift triangle from MacDonald. A sweet spinning backfist, Ellenberger being the man, and Rory MacDonald going Kurt Angle on Nate Diaz. Then you got the Machida kick. This is easily the best card of the year so far.

[B]

I only just woke up in time to see Matyushenko quickly KO'ing Brilz so I missed a whole load of prelims which I usually watch.

Couture never looked like he was gonna beat Machida, he honestly just looked too slow to beat him & he also played right into Machida's style of standup. The reason I feel that Rampage & Shogun (twice), beat Machida is because they put him under a consistant barrage of attacks. This buisness about trying to feint their way to close the distance doesn't work against Machida, he keeps his head that far back that he can pretty much tell whether a feint or actual attack is coming.. even moreso against Couture who looked quite slow in comparison.

Lyoto's finishing flying front kick was superb, it turns out Steven Seagal is one bad mo-fo. But seriously, they need to make the cage smaller to stop Lyoto running so much, if he would actually take a forward step more often he'd be more of a fan favourite.

Jose Aldo & Mark Hominick was a great fight I thought. Jose Aldo is one beast of a fighter, I think I heard them say something about having a hard weight cut which contributed to the fact his stamina wasn't up to power & even with this, he still gave Hominick a crazy beating. The hematoma he gave him from that short elbow was absolutely sickening after it had fully swollen up.. if that had burst after the doctor somehow let it continue it would have been disguisting. Great fight though between the 2, Jose Aldo is a beast.

GSP vs Shields was a 5 round snoozefest, but I wish GSP wouldn't apologise for fighting smart after every decision win. That's the reason he probably is the pound for pound best, because hes so well rounded. That being said, this performance was one of his worst.. at least he gave Koscheck a boxing lesson, he didn't really teach Shields anything. He barely did enough to win & nothing more. I know Shields somehow hurt his eye, but still.. 'I'm not impressed by his performance.'

In some ways I personally liken his performance to Anderson Silva's vs Damian Maia. GSP looked like he had every advantage he needed to really finish Shields, he had technically better standup, he was stronger & faster.. he should have been pressing Shields backwards & giving him a beating rather than allow Shields & his wooden standup style to be pressing him backwards. If GSP really wanted to impress & send a message he should have taken Shields down & beat him in his own specialty.

He has to move up to MW now, he has cleaned the WW division out & his next opponent will either be Jon Fitch or BJ Penn... 2 guys he has already definitively beaten, neither of which have improved since last fighting GSP & being beat.. with BJ actually probably declining.



EDIT - Oh yea I forgot to say, Shields hardly covered himself in glory either. There was me thinking he'd show what he has shown in every other fight I've seen him in & that is relentless grappling. I dunno if it was because GSP was so conservative that he just couldn't get a proper chance to get hold of him without blindly running into a barrage of punches.

I'll watch the rest of the prelims later but of the 4 fights I watched, 3 of them were entertaining.

[CrypticOne]

I boo'd loudly and said "GSP sucks!" at my local Buffalo Wild Wings. GSP is so scared it's not even funny. The dude is an amazing athlete. But that's it. He could of finished Shields at any time but chose to play it safe because he is so scared to commit to something ever since Serra made him tap to strikes. I've never been a fan of his. I want someone to go in there that has good TDD and just wreck him.

I also don't want to see him fight Anderson. You can just tell he's scared of him. Don't make that fight happen Dana.

Amazing front kick from Machida. Simply amazing. But Couture shouldn't have been in there in the first place.

Aldo looked slow tonight. Maybe the long layoff was the cause.

[B]

I boo'd loudly and said "GSP sucks!" at my local Buffalo Wild Wings. GSP is so scared it's not even funny. The dude is an amazing athlete. But that's it. He could of finished Shields at any time but chose to play it safe because he is so scared to commit to something ever since Serra made him tap to strikes. I've never been a fan of his. I want someone to go in there that has good TDD and just wreck him.

Joe Rogan said it best, GSP vs Shields was like a replay of GSP vs Koscheck without the threat of Koscheck's 1 punch power.

GSP just doesn't seemingly have the aggression to really assert his dominance over people like Shields. If GSP really couldn't asert the far superior & visible striking advantage over Shields to at the very least make this win convincing.. I mean I don't have much faith in him being able to finish many fighters.

Look at how a vurtually gased Jose Aldo reacted when he dropped Hominick (one of the times) & then look at how GSP reacted when he dropped Shields with that headkick.. or wobbled him with that straight. Jose Aldo absolutely swarmed on Hominick with hammerfists, sidefists, elbows.. whatever he could throw he threw it, Hominick managing to survive though. GSP however dropped Shields & wobbled him with a straight, both times he didn't show any aggression to finish Shields & as a result he allowed him to easily recover.

It's hard to put any sort of reason for it.. however before he was with Greg Jackson & before the Matt Serra beat him, he was more of a risky & exciting fighter. He took the peak Matt Hughes on in his area of expertise.. twice, fair enough he lost one, but it showed the confidence in his own ability.

After thinking about it, I say give GSP, Nick Diaz so he can further bury himself as the greatest WW in history & then make him move up to MW to face Anderson Silva providing he manages to get past Okami, which I expect him to do.

[E-Man]

I really don't care to see GSP fight Diaz. At least not over him moving up to 185. The Diaz fight would be entertaining since Nick would get his ass beat as bad as Kos and Fitch did, but I want to see GSP pushed a bit by someone that's a real threat. I'm thinking Rousimar Palhares since he is a freaking tiny machine that keeps coming. GSP should be done at 170. There is virtually nothing for him besides fighting a Diaz who wouldn't even get past any of his recent opponents to deserve a shot. Sure he's the Strikeforce champ at welterweight, but that's like being the president of Sri Lanka compared to Barack Obama. Diaz probably wouldn't fight him anyway because he has a habit of talking **** in circumstances where there is no chance for him to fight someone. He'll probably go to boxing to be boxing's version of Kimbo Slice, fighting old and way out of prime guys. Then after beating some scrub he'll start talking **** about how GSP is scared of him and all that noise.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

STEVEN ****ING SEGAL!!!! You SOB!

[Colossal Spoons]

He's gonna be taking credit for that kick until he dies lol

Henderson/Bocek was FOTN for me

[E-Man]

One day I want to see Bendo go all Debo on the crowd after he wins.
"Las Vegas can I get an amen?!"
*crickets*
"Well **** you then punk!"

[Colossal Spoons]

Haha

[Siddean]

Steven Seagal teaches Anderson Silva some moves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaVDFW_o1cA)

Here's a video of Seagal training with Silva. About 5 minutes in you can see him showing him the front kick. He's just doing it against the wall, but it's there.

Dig the 'nose locks' Seagal is showing him. Hah.

[zanos]

I think GSP has lost me as a fan. I can't stand his fights now. Getting beat up by Shields in the standup was really the last straw for me.

[B]

So both Frankie Edgar & Grey Maynard are out of UFC 130 with injuries.. both of them. Rampage vs Hamill is now the headline fight. I bet right about now, Dana White is thinking he should have given Rampage a far more credible opponent to face for the No.1 contendership.. sucks big time I was looking forward to Maynard/Edgar rematch. No new date has been set for the rematch.. which sucks.

And in other news Brock Lesnar is also out of his UFC 131 bout with Junior Dos Santos after having a reoccurance of the diverticulitis problem that kept him out while he was champion. According to Lesnar he was apparently still suffering slightly from it against Carwin & Velasquez, however in this training camp the pain increased, he had another scan revealing an infection & his gut is 'inflammed'. He apparently has had to skip days of training camp against Carwin, Velasquez & now Dos Santos because of pain & also I'm assuming weakness/tiredness as a result of the disease. It's a real career ending problem & according to Dana White, Brock has to make some choices in the current weeks regarding the treatment of the illness that could impact his future in MMA.

Stepping up for Lesnar will be none other than Shane Carwin. So it still should be a great fight none the less. Sucks for Lesnar though, hope he can beat the illness for good & make it back into a UFC cage.. from the comments I've read he seems to have already made his choice regarding treatment & plans to find a way to get back into the octagon. :up:

[Mako]

Damn that sucks

[Colossal Spoons]

Seriously, crap news all around

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

I think people are jumping on the "GSP can't finish fighters/can't assert his dominance" wagon too fast. Take a look at Roy Jones Jr. when he was younger and was absolutely superior to the rest of the field, but he hardly made the fight a forgone conclusion and people didn't like this. But he didn't need to, he was so much better than the opponents he fought, that he would just do enough to beat them or win the fight without obliterating them.

Sure he didn't knock Koscheck out but he basically played target practice with his head all night. And who knows how much his eye was really bothering him other than GSP himself? He's also a fighter that wants to continue to get better and add more to his arsenal which can only help prolong his reign as champ.

Unlike other past champs which seem to rely on one set of skills and don't bother to branch out very much. imho.

[Paroxysm]

Carwin will loose via lactic acid again.

[Colossal Spoons]

Haha

I'm guessing it'll be JDS/Carwin to fight Cain and the winner of that watch fights the winner of Mir/Nelson? I swear, the heavyweight division is made up of the same 6 dudes.

[E-Man]

I feel bad for Brock. I think he had a great chance to beat Dos Santos on his wrestling strength, but now I just hope he gets well. JDS vs. Carwin is a terrific fight anyway, so it's not a total loss. Plus Cain doesn't have the threat of a rematch since he's never fought either guy before.

The Strikeforce heavyweight division needs to be merged with the UFC soon. Both org's divisions are thin as hell right now. The Heavyweight Grand Prix should be damn near done by now anyway.

[CrypticOne]

Someone even said before the show that Lesnar wouldn't fight. That something like this would happen and Carwin would be brought in. HAHA!

I hope Dos Santos still wins.

Man, these main events are getting shaken up! First Edgar/Maynard, and now this. Dana can't be too happy.

I'd rather see Dos Santos/Carwin, to be honest though.

[Mace Bloodstone]

This is what killed boxing for me, the top guys only fighting 1 or 2 times a year. Why should Cain or anyone else still be the champ if they can't defend it within a certain amount of time..

[B]

Carwin will loose via lactic acid again.

:funny:

Carwin's cardio was horrific against Lesnar, that being said.. Dos Santos didn't look too hot in the 2nd & 3rd rounds against Big Country after he couldn't put him away.

I've a feeling this will be a short fight, someone is getting dropped.

[B]

This is what killed boxing for me, the top guys only fighting 1 or 2 times a year. Why should Cain or anyone else still be the champ if they can't defend it within a certain amount of time..

This is part of the reason I think Dana introduced more weightclasses into the sport. Had he not, right now he'd have his HW, LHW & LW champion(s) (+The No.1 contender for LW) all sidelined with injuries.. leaving only his WW & MW divisions running.

This seems to have only happened as MMA has become more main stream, when people like Tito, Chuck, Franklin, B.J., Matt Hughes etc where all champions & running the place I can hardly even remember any fights being pulled because of an injury.. maybe that's just me though.

[El Bastardo]

It's kind of a moot point fight, just like Lesnar-Dos Santos was. Whichever one wins is going to get destroyed when Cain fights them, although Carwin probably does have the best chance among them.

[B]

It's kind of a moot point fight, just like Lesnar-Dos Santos was. Whichever one wins is going to get destroyed when Cain fights them, although Carwin probably does have the best chance among them.

I wouldn't be so sure. Velasquez is on a hype train at the moment, the Lesnar fight I feel flattered the opinion that Velasquez has great striking & is therefore superbly well rounded.

He has only faced 1 proper striker to date & that was Cheick Kongo who gave him problems & took him to a decision. Primarily he has fought guys with 'average/below average' strikers. If Dos Santos had fought Lesnar, stuffed his takedowns & KO'd Lesnar, he'd be considered a real true threat to Velasquez.. my feeling is, until we see someone trying to grapple with Dos Santos, we just won't know.

[Mako]

I wouldn't be so sure. Velasquez is on a hype train at the moment, the Lesnar fight I feel flattered the opinion that Velasquez has great striking & is therefore superbly well rounded.

He has only faced 1 proper striker to date & that was Cheick Kongo who gave him problems & took him to a decision. Primarily he has fought guys with 'average/below average' strikers. If Dos Santos had fought Lesnar, stuffed his takedowns & KO'd Lesnar, he'd be considered a real true threat to Velasquez.. my feeling is, until we see someone trying to grapple with Dos Santos, we just won't know.

All great points.

[E-Man]

:funny:

Carwin's cardio was horrific against Lesnar, that being said.. Dos Santos didn't look too hot in the 2nd & 3rd rounds against Big Country after he couldn't put him away.

I've a feeling this will be a short fight, someone is getting dropped.

I'm thinking that Carwin either wins with a big KO in the first, or JDS has sick power and knocks out Carwin in the second after he gasses.

[Paroxysm]

Either way, someones getting their dome rung!

[Mako]

Either way, someones getting their dome rung!

That's an understatement .

[El Bastardo]

I wouldn't be so sure. Velasquez is on a hype train at the moment, the Lesnar fight I feel flattered the opinion that Velasquez has great striking & is therefore superbly well rounded.

He has only faced 1 proper striker to date & that was Cheick Kongo who gave him problems & took him to a decision. Primarily he has fought guys with 'average/below average' strikers. If Dos Santos had fought Lesnar, stuffed his takedowns & KO'd Lesnar, he'd be considered a real true threat to Velasquez.. my feeling is, until we see someone trying to grapple with Dos Santos, we just won't know.
I'm not on any Velasquez hype train. And if Velasquez has one, so too do Carwin and Dos Santos, and those two have been going strong despite Carwin's loss and all because of Dos Santos's ear-wiggle knockout on Werdum, respectively.

Cain did have trouble against Kongo, and that's made him all the better. Since that, Cain has improved leaps and bounds ahead of Lesnar, Carwin, and Dos Santos. Assuming he comes back from the injury fine, with no psychological problems, he'll still be better than them.

[B]

I'm not on any Velasquez hype train. And if Velasquez has one, so too do Carwin and Dos Santos, and those two have been going strong despite Carwin's loss and all because of Dos Santos's ear-wiggle knockout on Werdum, respectively.

Cain did have trouble against Kongo, and that's made him all the better. Since that, Cain has improved leaps and bounds ahead of Lesnar, Carwin, and Dos Santos. Assuming he comes back from the injury fine, with no psychological problems, he'll still be better than them.

I'm not suggesting you are onboard, however he does have a hype train currently on level with that of Dos Santos, alot feel that because of how they've won their recent fights that they are near unbeatable. Carwin's has died down since his cardio flaws where exploited by Lesnar.

I'm not so sure, I mean since Kongo hes only fought Ben Rothwell & Nogueira. Neither are particularly known for their striking, Rothwell is just a guy with power & little striking technique & Nogueira's striking is decent, but he looks & fights older than he is.. dare I say he is about 4/5 years over the hill.

The only way we will know how his striking has improved is if he fights Dos Santos should he win as he is arguably the most dangerous striker in the HW division because he is technically good, with alot of power. Carwin isn't technically outstanding, however he has a **** load of power.. it just runs out quickly. :D

[El Bastardo]

You're not so sure about what? That he's improved? Regardless of his opponents' striking abilities, the ease and accuracy with which he scored shots on Nogueira speaks well of improvement. The Rothwell fight, though, true, does not display improved striking so much as other elements of Cain's game. And then his performance against Lesnar is a mixture of the two.

[Siddean]

Think Carwin will employ his Frank Mir strategy here and press Dos Santos up against the cage and work some dirty boxing. Take him down off the cage, ground and pound. Think he'll have learned his lesson about blowing his load after the Lesnar fight.

[B]

You're not so sure about what? That he's improved? Regardless of his opponents' striking abilities, the ease and accuracy with which he scored shots on Nogueira speaks well of improvement. The Rothwell fight, though, true, does not display improved striking so much as other elements of Cain's game. And then his performance against Lesnar is a mixture of the two.

I'm not so sure he has improved as much as people feel he has is what I'm saying.

Nogueira though to be fair is a human punching bag to take the words of Chael Sonnen, it's harsh, but is quite accurate. He can take a punch, but he has little head movement & gets tagged quite alot. If your fighting someone fairly smart, like Cain is, they will pick him apart with strong accurate jabs & straight combos.

We will soon know if he has improved when he next fights a fairly accomplished striker, until now he has only really fought grappling based opponents & he has indeed had good enough hands to beat them.

[Iron_Stark]

edit.

oops, wrong thread! :doh:

[Paroxysm]

Aldo's injured and out of the Mendes fight.

[CrypticOne]

Aldo's injured and out of the Mendes fight.

That's not surprising. Every champ seems to be getting injured.

[Paroxysm]

That's not surprising. Every champ seems to be getting injured.

I know, lol I guess they train too hard.

[Paroxysm]

Jose Aldo says he is still fighting Mendes and is not injured, contrary to reports.

[Bubonic]

Anyone watch the Ultimate Fighter last night?
That **** was nuts!
Chuck just brutalized Gary Busey,it's so harsh how it ended up for him though, really reminds you how unforgiving the sport is.
Second fight was quick, but the wrong guy won. MacGillvray deserved it more as a person, but life don't play out that way.
I just hope Chuck can end this ********s career as well.

[ReTrO JuNkIe 42]

Anyone watch the Ultimate Fighter last night?
That **** was nuts!
Chuck just brutalized Gary Busey,it's so harsh how it ended up for him though, really reminds you how unforgiving the sport is.
Second fight was quick, but the wrong guy won. MacGillvray deserved it more as a person, but life don't play out that way.
I just hope Chuck can end this ********s career as well.

yeah to bad he ended the wrong guys career, I hope chuck wins it all

[El Bastardo]

What happened?

[Bubonic]

In the rematch between Chuck and Zack, Chuck came out banging and Zack weathered the storm, but he'd of done better not being so ****ing tough.
Zack tore BOTH of his retinas and had to have surgery immediately after, one more punch could make him completely blind and now his career is over.
The worst thing is that he had already won against Chuck! What a nightmare for him.
I forget the other guys name, big ears, Mexican, might be Tony, anyways he flashed Macgillvray in the first few seconds with an uppercut and ground n pound, and MacGillvray was built as a very nice guy and they had us feeling for him and his daughter that he didn't want to disappoint.
Then that night they all got drunk and Tony was just being unforgivably ******, so I would of wished that MacGillvray was still in it, and Zacks condition be put on Tony.

[El Bastardo]

Holy crap.

[E-Man]

Tomorrow's card isn't so bad. I hate that both Edgar and Maynard got injured, but **** happens. Before the card it looked really solid, so one fight isn't going to kill it even if it's the most anticipated for me. Mir vs. Nelson should be a good one. They match up pretty well.

[Mace Bloodstone]

Did Mir win or lose his last fight??

[Bubonic]

He won against Cro Cop, check out sherdog they have all the fighter stats.

[Slushy]

I'm not a Rampage fan at all, but Matt Hamill is going to get his ass kicked!

[Mace Bloodstone]

Hmm, to watch or not to watch tonight ??

[TheVileOne]

Just go to BW3 and watch.

Also it's not like you can't watch half the fights for free on Facebook and Spike TV.

This card is underwhelming without the title fight and such a weak main event. However, I'd rather have a night out of watching UFC and MMA than not have it.

I predict this show will do well under 400K buys though.

[B]

Dispite Edgar/Maynard not being included in this card tonight I think the rest of the card is quite good on paper. The main event isn't exactly gonna be as eagerly watched as Edgar/Maynard III would have, but that being said it should still be a good fight & would have been an ideal co-main event. + there Thaigo 'kick your legs away from you' Alves, Frank Mir & Big Country all fighting.. should be good to watch.

[CrypticOne]

Pretty good card tonight, despite the main event.

Nice wins for Browne, Stann, and Story.

Mir looked kinda slow, but still nice performance.

[B]

Decent enough card, Rampage/Hamill fight was a disappointment. It was one of those fights that cancelled each other out.

Hamill couldn't take Rampage down, like at all & from the outside looking in it didn't look like he offered any sort of real danger to Rampage in terms of the striking. However Rampage didn't step in & engage Hamill enough to badly hurt Hamill as I imagine he was always thinking about Hamill's takedown.. and the fact that Hamill has good power behind punches.

Rampage schooled Hamill & punished him, hurting him on a couple of occassions especally with body shots.. but never really threatened the finish. Apparently he had a fractured/injured hand though either during or before the fight, so I'll cut him come slack.

Mir/Nelson was a fairly good fight.. better than I thought it was going to be. It was alright until the end of the 2nd/3rd round when both guys looked exhausted, particularly Nelson.. maybe he should skip the Burger King's next time & hit the treadmill.

Thaigo Alves/Rick Story, was disappointed with this fight. I had high hopes for this because both guys are explosive.. but maybe it was just me but it seemed as though Story basically got Alves off the base of his feet & just held him there.

Travis Brown's KO of Stefan Struve was devastating to say the least as was Brian Stann's KO over Santiago.

[Mace Bloodstone]

Mir and Nelson were both winded.. Why did Mir let Nelson up every time he took him down?? I don't think Hamill will ever be real successful, maybe try 185 like Brian Stann did.

[Paroxysm]

UFC: St. Pierre vs. Diaz set for Oct. 29.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/mma/post/2011/06/gsp-nick-diaz-set-for-oct-29/1

Oh man, Nick Diaz's face is going to end up looking even more like the geico caveman after GSP is done with him.

[Iron_Stark]

UFC: St. Pierre vs. Diaz set for Oct. 29.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/mma/post/2011/06/gsp-nick-diaz-set-for-oct-29/1

Oh man, Nick Diaz's face is going to end up looking even more like the geico caveman after GSP is done with him.

Negative, the God of Violence may very well end up lose, but it's GSPs face that's going to end up looking like ground meat.

Edit.

Taking note Paquiao/Mayweather? This is how real men settle who's the best at their respective weight, by unifying the titles.

Pair of pansies.

[Paroxysm]

Negative, the God of Violence may very well end up losing, but it's GSPs face that's going to end up looking like ground meat.

I'm sure GSP will get a little mouse or two but seriously Nick Diaz is going to end up like these guys.

http://rdtwot.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/fitch_after_gsp.jpg

http://static.sportsuntapped.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/kos2.png

[Mace Bloodstone]

Diaz throws bombs!

[CrypticOne]

The only way GSP wins this fight is if he lays and prays all over Diaz. Period-point-blank. Otherwise I see Diaz out-striking GSP's YMCA skills. Fitch and Koscheck aren't strikers or even close to the kind of caliber Diaz is. Both Fitch and Kos are both sloppy and Kos relies only on one hand.

GSP will most likely win. But it won't be him demolishing Diaz. It'll be GSP taking it safe and this fight being 30 minutes of bore.

[E-Man]

GSP is better than Diaz at everything. Diaz's striking consists of walking down guys and throwing as many punches as possible. He gets by because he has a great chin, but that's it. He's not cornering GSP and traping him into a slugfest. Worst come to worst he can always take him down. GSP is the best wrestler in MMA. Diaz has terrible takedown defense. His ass is getting taken down all night. The best thing about Diaz is that he will put up a fight, but he's been fighting scubs besides Daley for a long time now. GSP is going to hand him his ass, and Diaz will make it to the bell because his chin is great while GSP isn't a killer like Anderson. Then he'll ***** about not getting the decision or GSP being too soft or some ****.

[Iron_Stark]

GSP is better than Diaz at everything. Diaz's striking consists of walking down guys and throwing as many punches as possible. He gets by because he has a great chin, but that's it. He's not cornering GSP and traping him into a slugfest. Worst come to worst he can always take him down. GSP is the best wrestler in MMA. Diaz has terrible takedown defense. His ass is getting taken down all night. The best thing about Diaz is that he will put up a fight, but he's been fighting scubs besides Daley for a long time now. GSP is going to hand him his ass, and Diaz will make it to the bell because his chin is great while GSP isn't a killer like Anderson. Then he'll ***** about not getting the decision or GSP being too soft or some ****.

lol, Noons, Smith, and Shamrock are all better than Daley.

Nick is going to make him fight, he's not going to accept a boring loss.

[E-Man]

WTF? Nons hasn't done jack **** in his career besides beating Diaz. Scott Smith is a scrub plain and simple. He's had a few good comebacks in his career, but beyond that he hasn't done much at all. Plus his comebacks are against guys who aren't that good anyway. Frank Shamrock better than Daley? Shamrock was elite a long time ago in the UFC. By the time Diaz fought him he was nothing more than a has been that would get beat by most guys in MMA. Daley is better than all those guys, and he's overrated himself by the "elite striker" crowd. Diaz hasn't fought anyone worth a damn in the past few years, and it's going to show in his second UFC run. He's going to get exposed as a can crusher unless they give him highly favorable matchups like against Dan Hardy. His fights may be exciting, but that doesn't mean that he's an elite guy.

[Iron_Stark]

Like I said earlier, the God of Violence may lose, but GSP is going to actually work for the win.

You're acting like Diaz is a bum, lol, he made Daley his b**** in one round, something Kos couldn't do.

He's going to add some life in that division, he easily beats anyone else in that division.

[E-Man]

Kos beat Daley much better than Diaz did. It wasn't pretty, but he took no damage and handled him. Diaz got dropped and nearly finished twice. It was a very exciting fight, and I give Diaz his props for taking Daley's shots like that. Beyond that though I doubt he can beat the top guys until he proves it. Besides Gomi he hasn't even fought anyone elite to even be fighting GSP. He got handled by guys with good grappling in the UFC, left, beat Gomi, and hasn't fought anyone with decent grappling since besides a well past his prime Frank Shamrock. Is he a bum? No, but he hasn't even beaten anyone close to be considered as highly as he is right now. If he beats GSP I'll give him all his props, but beating Noons, Aina, Shamrock, old ass Sakurai, and old man Frank is nothing more impressive than what Kimbo was doing.

[CrypticOne]

Kos beat Daley much better than Diaz did. It wasn't pretty, but he took no damage and handled him. Diaz got dropped and nearly finished twice. It was a very exciting fight, and I give Diaz his props for taking Daley's shots like that. Beyond that though I doubt he can beat the top guys until he proves it. Besides Gomi he hasn't even fought anyone elite to even be fighting GSP. He got handled by guys with good grappling in the UFC, left, beat Gomi, and hasn't fought anyone with decent grappling since besides a well past his prime Frank Shamrock. Is he a bum? No, but he hasn't even beaten anyone close to be considered as highly as he is right now. If he beats GSP I'll give him all his props, but beating Noons, Aina, Shamrock, old ass Sakurai, and old man Frank is nothing more impressive than what Kimbo was doing.

Well, the only reason Diaz took damage was because he wasn't scared to stand with Daley. Kos was terrified. And what people fail to realize is that GSP isn't a true fighter. He's a good athlete. And he even admits to that.

I hate how he says he's a mixed martial artist. He isn't. Being a mixed martial artist is testing yourself, your bounds and limits. He wants to stay at 170 his whole career, because he knows if he moved up in weight, he'd get mauled.

He can go ahead and use his opponents' weaknesses to get past them. Try beating them at their best points. He could've knocked Shields at any time. But he was scared to commit. He's a better striker than Hardy, but held him down the entire time.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Well, the only reason Diaz took damage was because he wasn't scared to stand with Daley. Kos was terrified. And what people fail to realize is that GSP isn't a true fighter. He's a good athlete. And he even admits to that.

I hate how he says he's a mixed martial artist. He isn't. Being a mixed martial artist is testing yourself, your bounds and limits. He wants to stay at 170 his whole career, because he knows if he moved up in weight, he'd get mauled.

He can go ahead and use his opponents' weaknesses to get past them. Try beating them at their best points. He could've knocked Shields at any time. But he was scared to commit. He's a better striker than Hardy, but held him down the entire time.

Does he duck opponents? Not being a dick, serious question, because I've never heard of him being accused of doing so.

[Paroxysm]

Does he duck opponents? Not being a dick, serious question, because I've never heard of him being accused of doing so.



http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm91/btlbass/l_d7db48e89789e2173415e813f90eaf-1.jpg

[Paroxysm]

TUF finale was pretty entertaining.

Guida spoiled Shotimes debut.

[El Bastardo]

Via humpfest. It's almost like he didn't want to stand and fight with Pettis all night, so he kept taking him down even though he couldn't do much down there, and then just laid on him all fight!

Oh wait, no, that's what GSP does. Because he SUX OMG LOL.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm91/btlbass/l_d7db48e89789e2173415e813f90eaf-1.jpg

Didn't they fight already?

[Paroxysm]

Didn't they fight already?

Nope. Still waiting for it to happen.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

That's Jason Miller right?

[Paroxysm]

It is. He's also a coach on the next TUF believe it or not.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

He's also on bully beatdown which although I hate reality tv, I find it funny and entertaining. :up: Although, I wanted to make sure we were talking about the same person.

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Jason-Miller-7798

Loss Georges St. Pierre Decision (Unanimous) UFC 52 - Couture vs Liddell 2 4/16/2005 3 5:00

GSP has already fought him.

[Paroxysm]

I know, we were talking about Nick Diaz though.

Nick is the one who's been ducking Miller.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Ah, well then. That would explain it. I clearly was drunk when I got involved in that conversation. :up:

[Colossal Spoons]

He's also on bully beatdown which although I hate reality tv, I find it funny and entertaining. :up: Although, I wanted to make sure we were talking about the same person.

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Jason-Miller-7798

Loss Georges St. Pierre Decision (Unanimous) UFC 52 - Couture vs Liddell 2 4/16/2005 3 5:00

GSP has already fought him.

Miller's also a regular on the Jason Ellis show(on SiriusXM). Freakin hilarious!

[Iron_Stark]

I know, we were talking about Nick Diaz though.

Nick is the one who's been ducking Miller.

Diaz would skull f*** Miller.

Besides he's going after the big buck of the division, no need to waste a tune up fight on Miller and risk injury.

[mrvlknight21]

It is. He's also a coach on the next TUF believe it or not.

Yep. Its going to be hilarious. He is going to drive Bisping insane.


I know, we were talking about Nick Diaz though.

Nick is the one who's been ducking Miller.

^ correct.

http://dontbescaredhomie.com/

(thats a real website started by Miller)


Miller's also a regular on the Jason Ellis show(on SiriusXM). Freakin hilarious!


Yes, he is.


Diaz would skull f*** Miller.

Besides he's going after the big buck of the division, no need to waste a tune up fight on Miller and risk injury.

Aren't you the same guy that said that Shogun would skull f*** Jon Jones?

LOL. You sure were...how did that work out for you? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

[Bubonic]

Bisping and Miller will definitely be entertaining to watch, I hopefully when it comes time for them to fight they'll both be willing and able.

The TUF 13 finally was pretty good, I wish Ramsey would of clocked Tony... He'll get his, especially in the welterweight division.

[B]

UFC: St. Pierre vs. Diaz set for Oct. 29.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/mma/post/2011/06/gsp-nick-diaz-set-for-oct-29/1

Oh man, Nick Diaz's face is going to end up looking even more like the geico caveman after GSP is done with him.

Nick Diaz isn't in the same league as GSP, he took a pasting from Daley & instead of blocking punches with his arms, let his head block them. I thought he was lucky that McCarthey stepped in & stopped that fight as Daley was in no more trouble than Diaz was earlier in the fight when he dropped Diaz like a ****in stone with a right.

I mean correct me if I'm wrong but the last properly strong wrestler Diaz fought was Sherk before he got cut from the UFC & Diaz struggled against him even off his back.. and GSP is a better wrestler & has better BJJ credibility than Sherk did. There is nowhere that Diaz should win this fight, GSP has better standup, is far quicker, stronger, is a better wrestler & has good enough BJJ to nullify anything Diaz offers if he puts him on his back.

TUF finale was pretty entertaining.

Guida spoiled Shotimes debut.

I thought Pettis looked really sharp, few more fights in the UFC to better himself & he could be a real threat at LW. Looks very dangerous off his back, had Guida not been so energetic he might have caught him in a triangle which he through up several times.

It is. He's also a coach on the next TUF believe it or not.

I heard about this, hes opposite Michael Bisping.. :awesome:

Next years TUF should be amazing, Mayhem already opened things up by saying now that Osama Bin Ladin is dead Michael Bisping is the most hated man in America. :D

[Iron_Stark]

Aren't you the same guy that said that Shogun would skull f*** Jon Jones?

LOL. You sure were...how did that work out for you? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.


Yeah that was my initial thought when the fight was announced before I read that Shogun had cut some 15 lbs on fight week and was coming off another surgery. I knew he was going to look as flat as he did against Griffin and Coleman.

But bottom line, Diaz is no Shogun, he always comes prepared and ready to go for a full 5 and Mayhem is definitely no Jon Jones.

The God of Violence ducks no man.

[mrvlknight21]

Yeah that was my initial thought when the fight was announced before I read that Shogun had cut some 15 lbs on fight week and was coming off another surgery. I knew he was going to look as flat as he did against Griffin and Coleman.

But bottom line, Diaz is no Shogun, he always comes prepared and ready to go for a full 5 and Mayhem is definitely no Jon Jones.

The God of Violence ducks no man.

Diaz is great, but is a total D***. No class whatsoever. That is why I dont like him.
Youre right Mayhem is not Jon Jones, in fact, NOBODY is a Jon Jones right now except Jon Jones.

Both those things agreed, I personally think Miller would beat Diaz right now (at least I hope he would). Unfortunately, it appears that we will never know.

[E-Man]

So much hate for Clay Guida right now, once again showing that you're only as good as your last fight to a lot of MMA fans. Guida boring? People tend to forget that he's been in some of the best fights in MMA history with Tyson Griffin, Huerta, and Diego. Pettis' guard was awesome too. I'm glad we got to see him again because he can bring it as well. I had high hopes that the fight would be better, but we didn't see that until the third round. It's too bad that fight wasn't for the WEC belt. That needed to be five rounds like Pettis and Bendo had. That fight started slow but turned into a fantastic match in the last three rounds.

[B]

Who hates Clay Guida?

It was one of those fights that somewhat cancelled itself out I thought, Guida had too superior wrestling for Pettis to keep it standing & Pettis was better off his back than Guida was attacking in his guard..

Both fighters were trying though, personally I thought the fight was alright.

[Bubonic]

He definitely grinded out the win like he said he would, his frantic pace and Pettis fighting spirit kept it somewhat entertaining, but I do like it more when Guida is shedding off knockout blows and being a wildman.

What must of been an atrocious fight was the Shamar Bailey duel with MacGillvray that they didn't even bother televising, his lame athletic ass probably layed and prayed the poor Canuck for three entire rounds... Wtv, he might of just been concerned with a W, but he should be more concerned with entertaining Dana White and the audience, I'll be glad to hear that he was released from any future events with the UFC.

[E-Man]

Who hates Clay Guida?

It was one of those fights that somewhat cancelled itself out I thought, Guida had too superior wrestling for Pettis to keep it standing & Pettis was better off his back than Guida was attacking in his guard..

Both fighters were trying though, personally I thought the fight was alright.

I haven't been in this thread much lately, but I know a lot of guys on some forums where just outright acting like Guida is the most boring fighter ever. They even compared him to Fitch. I think the issue stems from elitists that hate anything not Brazilian or Japanese. North American guys get called lay and pray if they take guys down and don't finish, but Dong Hyun Kim and Okami get called technical wizards that need to be appreciated. Same thing with Arona. It's just a lot of hipster type fans that plague MMA forums.

[Bubonic]

I use lay and pray to describe when a guy reduces an mma fight to a wrestling pinning clinic.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

I haven't been in this thread much lately, but I know a lot of guys on some forums where just outright acting like Guida is the most boring fighter ever. They even compared him to Fitch. I think the issue stems from elitists that hate anything not Brazilian or Japanese. North American guys get called lay and pray if they take guys down and don't finish, but Dong Hyun Kim and Okami get called technical wizards that need to be appreciated. Same thing with Arona. It's just a lot of hipster type fans that plague MMA forums.

Hipsters know what MMA is? :confused: MMA is way to bro for them.

[CrypticOne]

Guida is awesome. People need to lay off of him. He's smart enough to not stand with Pettis. He stayed busy on top and came out with the decision. Pettis has an awesome guard though. Got to give him his props on that. Guida will probably fight the winner of Miller/Bendo for the next title shot.

[E-Man]

Hipsters know what MMA is? :confused: MMA is way to bro for them.

:pal: Well I meant those fans that hate on anything close to being mainstream. The types that claim that some guy from the Mongolian wilderness would beat Anderson Silva, but Dana is scared to sign him and/or co-promote.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

:pal: Well I meant those fans that hate on anything close to being mainstream. The types that claim that some guy from the Mongolian wilderness would beat Anderson Silva, but Dana is scared to sign him and/or co-promote.

Ah, haha, gotcha. Yeah I know what you mean.

"UFC was cool.....before they came back to the US."

:up:

[Mace Bloodstone]

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/frostfx/fight.jpg


http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/frostfx/shane254.jpg
Shane 254 lbs


http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/frostfx/jrdos239.jpg
dos Santos 239 lbs

[Mace Bloodstone]

http://smilearchive.com/s/otn/realhappy/offwall.gif About 6 more hours!!

[B]

Awesome performance from Dos Santos last night, really destroyed Carwin from the very begining with his superior striking & in particular, his jab.

Dos Santos was using the jab to try & keep Carwin at bay, following it up with vicious uppercut attempts, hooks & overhands. Carwin should have wrestled with Dos Santos more to keep Dos Santos thinking about a takedown. It would have stopped Dos Santos being so fluid as the 2nd & 3rd round he wasn't even concerned about the takedowns it seemed.

I don't think that was a good representation on what Carwin's cardio is now like, it seemed slightly better, however Dos Santos broke his nose in round one & he could only breath through his mouth. Dos Santos's cardio doesn't look took hot, I mean he wasn't really pushed in that Carwin fight at all & he looked like he was breathing heavy at times just as he was against Big Country.. if Dos Santos can't put someone away inside a round he looks like he loses alot of the power in his hands the longer the fight goes.

Dos Santos vs Velasquez is next, personally I think there are 3 things Dos Santos looks very susceptible to & they are 3 things Velasquez does well/has: Front leg kicks, wrestling & cardio.

I don't think Velasquez should try to trade punches with Dos Santos because as much as people like to think Velasquez has good hands.. he doesn't. At least not based on what I've seen anyway. I feel his hands are not as strong as people suggest they are.. certainly not on the same level of Dos Santos striking anyway.

Brock made a wise choice pulling out of the fight with Dos Santos, the fight probably would have went different as Brock is more relentless with his takedowns so either he'd have kept Dos Santos pressed against the cage/on his back for 3 rounds or he'd have been knocked out trying. However he made a wise choice, if he wasn't going to be able to be at 100% going into the fight he'd have got slaughtered.

[Bubonic]

This is the mess of Carwin's face.
Please don't open this if you've got a weak stomach.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7786/dossantosvscarwin0127.jpg

[Bubonic]

This is where the brunt of that happened.
http://img1.mediafire.com/00e3d5a9291aa5bd94a43e8896dfc8ce39b8097beccf17493e cbc787c4ee72224g.jpg

[B]

This is the mess of Carwin's face.
Please don't open this if you've got a weak stomach.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7786/dossantosvscarwin0127.jpg

The cut under the his right eye had to be the one that hurt the most, it was the one I think Dos Santos opened up with one of his strong jabs & then made worse the longer the fight went on..

I feel bad for Carwin, hope he gets either Brenden Schaub or Roy Nelson next. Hopefully he can knock Schaub the **** out.. I hate that guy, wouldn't mind seeing Brock fight him & give him a pasting on the ground like he did Frank Mir.

This is where the brunt of that happened.
http://img1.mediafire.com/00e3d5a9291aa5bd94a43e8896dfc8ce39b8097beccf17493e cbc787c4ee72224g.jpg

This is the way all fights should go, let the fight go until the fighter is actually finished or taps out to the strikes. Carwin was still moving & he was using his right hand to partially block most of those punches before usuing his left arm.

He obviously wasn't finished either given that he managed to work his way back to his feet, after the Lesnar fight people questioned Carwin's heart, he redeemed himself last night in my eyes anyway.

[CrypticOne]

Hell yeah! WAR DOS SANTOS!

Can't wait to see Cain and Dos Santos to go at it! That is the HW fight of the decade!

[Paroxysm]

Sam Stout destroyed Yves Edwards.

[Bubonic]

I was Oh Canada-ing when he did it, especially when he refrained himself from following up when he could have, and unfortunately some do like to hit obviously knocked out opponents.

Yves Edwards is ****ing awesome and I hope he recovers from that knockout, it looked really bad.

[Paroxysm]

Yeah Sam showed a lot of class by not following up with bombs. I frigging hate when fighters do that.

[Dr. Evil]

I hope that he isn't going to fight, but that he'll be invovled in the UFC in Public Relations. He does have name appeal:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/730995-ufc-131-shaquille-oneal-will-be-a-part-of-the-ufc-according-to-dana-white

[Colossal Spoons]

Carwin looks like a GoW locust :(

[Paroxysm]

http://imgboot.com/images/jstyles/samstoutktfoyvesedwardsufc131.gif

[Bubonic]

Those knockouts are always risky as hell, take one to give one is some fearless warrior ****.

[Slushy]

Did Carwin gas out again? I was bummed to hear he lost as I was looking forward to seeing him go at it with Cain. :csad:

[Bubonic]

I think reading B's post at the top of the page would answer that question.
Anyways he didn't gas he was just outclassed.

[Lots o lafs]

Is age a factor, i believe so.
He was simply not fast enough, didn't block well enough, and was simply sloppy, but when you get dazed at the beginning of a fight its hard to recover, we can't all be chris leben.

[Slushy]

Who hates Clay Guida?



Not me. I've been watching some of his fights and he is one tough bastard. The dude can take a beating!

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Wow sounds like a good fight, I will have to check it out. :up:

[E-Man]

I didn't get a chance to see any of the fights yet, but damn Carwin looked like he got put through a meat grinder. I'm glad we're still getting JDS and Cain as long as no more injuries occur. *crosses fingers*

[Bubonic]

Mixed martial arts might not end up with as many retired athletes with their brains turned to mush as boxing but they'll certainly have more with broken bodies.

[Lots o lafs]

yeah, there are only like 2 deaths in sanctioned mma, and a bunch in boxing.

We have yet to see the long term ramifications the sport has on its fighters, chuck should get a brain scan every year.

[Bubonic]

That's what I'm saying, the nature of boxing makes permanent brain injury much more likely.

In boxing I've got 8 seconds to get my **** together, so I can survive a flash knockout and scramble up for more, these types of knockouts in mma are always finished on the spot because the fighter needs to be present at all times.

Then you've got the hand protecting padded gloves and the 12 three minute rounds of mostly getting your head bashed in, mma looks more brutal but the brain bashing isn't as consistent and drawn out.

But with all the submissions and high-octane training the joints of mma fighters go through the ringer. I hardly know of anyone on the competitive circuit that doesn't have knee or shoulder injuries, so I'm just theorizing that in the long run, while old boxers will be eating out of tubes old mma fighters might need to be hand feed because our bodies will be crippled with arthritis and that sort of crap.

[B]

yeah, there are only like 2 deaths in sanctioned mma, and a bunch in boxing.

We have yet to see the long term ramifications the sport has on its fighters, chuck should get a brain scan every year.

In my own opinion. I think depending on the type of fighter you are, boxers typically would suffer more long term damage in terms of their brain. MMA looks more brutal because of how severe some of the KO's visually look, however they are usually over quickly.

You are very rarely rocked & not finished in most MMA bouts. However because of the nature of boxing you could be rocked/badly hurt 6 or 7 times in a fight if your caught with a clean enough punch.. and basically even if you are not knocked down it takes a hell of a barrage of standing punches before a referee steps in & calls an end to the fight.

Every MMA fighter gets a scan before & after a fight to make sure they are fit to fight, any sort of indication of a brain problem or a developing brain problem & they would not be cleared to fight. Chuck included.

Chuck's recent KO's came simply as a result of him being slower, older & getting caught with hard strong punches. No man or woman is excempt from being knocked out, if you are hit hard enough in that sweet spot of your jaw or head you will be out cold.

Some however do display a higher tolerance & an ability to recover quicker, however I'd personally put that down to their conditioning, age & most importantly not being caught in the 'sweet spot'.

[E-Man]

I think that Werdum is going to surprise people with a win tomorrow. It shouldn't be an upset, but the whole Ubereem hype has people acting like Overeem is some kind of MMA god. I won't buy into the hype until he beats someone better than the mediocre fighters he's fought, but I can see how he is favored over Werdum. Werdum doesn't have good takedowns, and his standup is far and away lesser than Overeem who can claim that he's got the best striking in the heavyweight division. Still, Overeem's cardio hasn't been tested at all since he's put on a lot of weight, and I could see how Werdum could use the cage to his advantage to tire Overeem out. I think he'll go for the clinch with Overeem, either let Overeem take him down or grind him up against the cage working for takedowns. Once Overeem gets tired he'll take him down and sub him like in their first fight. This is a major test for Overeem, so it's good we'll finally get to see him fighting good competition.

[Mace Bloodstone]

If Overeem wins I want to see him in the ufc heavyweight mix now that Zuffa owns strikefore.

[Bubonic]

Overeem is pretty serious business, but yes, everytime a fighter gets on a winning streak he's the next Fedor.

Fans are fickle forgetful creatures.

[TheVileOne]

If Overeem wins the tournament he should get a UFC title shot but that's a big if. Overeem has not really had big tests at heavyweight besides I guess Rogers. Most of his heavyweight fights have been in Japan where they don't drug test against tomato cans.

[Bubonic]

Speaking of Rogers I think he might get cut down to size by Barnett, that man has a serious enough pedigree.

[TheVileOne]

Barnett didn't look in that great a shape at the weigh-ins. We shall see.

[Mace Bloodstone]

Rogers needs to bounce back, he can't afford another bad loss. He looked intimidated against Overeem, and Fedor really rocked him prior to that.

[E-Man]

Overeem is pretty serious business, but yes, everytime a fighter gets on a winning streak he's the next Fedor.

Fans are fickle forgetful creatures.

What are you talking about? You mean that Jon Jones really isn't the greatest light-heavyweight of all time, and that everyone should switch classes or retire now because they have no chance?

[Bubonic]

Obviously mma started and stopped with Bruce Lee.

[Bubonic]

Damn, Rogers got choked the hell out.

[Mace Bloodstone]

Arrrr :cmad: Spoiler:

Rogers tapped out.

[Bubonic]

How is it a spoiler, it's not even PPV, you either watch it now or you don't through legal means so far as I know.

No crying.

[Paroxysm]

K.J Noons got tooled by Jorge Masvidal. That's the best fight I've seen tonight. Masvidal is now on my radar.

REEM vs Werdum is next!

[Iron_Stark]

War Demolition Man!!!

[Mace Bloodstone]

How is it a spoiler, it's not even PPV, you either watch it now or you don't through legal means so far as I know.

No crying.

That wasn't directed at you, I'm :cmad: cause Rogers lost...

[Paroxysm]

Hilarious fight so far!!!!!

[Bubonic]

Werdum is such a boring turd.
Get the **** up and fight assmunch, obviously not good enough to take him down.

[Mace Bloodstone]

Ref should take a point away.

[Paroxysm]

I know this is pathetic. I love how Overeem's sticking to his game plan.

[Bubonic]

Honestly, I've nothing against groundfighting, but if that is what you are trying to force then you must be the better man and get it to the ground, otherwise it just looks like you're just waiting for your opponent to cave into your style, as if.

[Paroxysm]

Werdum looks like he's gassing but who knows if he's trolling.

[Paroxysm]

Even if Werdum technically outstrikes Overem, there is no way Overeem will lose this decision.

[Bubonic]

Wow that was a overall boring card.

[Paroxysm]

Yep, Noon vs Masvidal was easily FOTN.

[El Bastardo]

Yeah. Talk about lackluster.

[Bubonic]

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!
oh wait...

[E-Man]

Both guys looked like ****. Werdum can't get a guy to the ground besides pulling a Thales Leites? Overeem is gassed based on what? Getting slapped in the face and laying on Werdum on the ground? I was very excited about this fight. I hate that it turned into this because neither guy is in that good of shape. Overeem is all muscle and no cardio. Werdum looked flabby and has no game plan besides trolling his way into the ground game.

Oh, and Brett Rogers is just a journeyman level guy who got the right match up with a glass chinned Arlovski. My beef with him is not that he's not that good. It's not like he has the greatest money to get to the greatest camps. I just hate when guys offer nothing and don't try. He just laid there and took it instead of going down trying. I hate seeing that ****.

[El Bastardo]

Yeah. Overeem barely even threw. Way to be a striker, pal.

And when he did throw, it was a few hard punches, and the same knee that Werdum was looking to grab hold of. Figure it out after the first time.

[DaveMoral]

Rogers is outta shape, doughy, and he's never looked like he had much heart.

Werdum was boring, as a result so was Overeem. I would have liked to see Overeem get to that point in the fight where he usually really tees off, but it just wasn't happening. Especially with Werdum taking as many breathers as he was. Nice to see that kid gassed though.

Masvidal v Noons was definitely fight of the night. Noons is always fun to watch and despite having been out classed there it was a good show. That dude's got a lot of heart, never gave up even with his blood flowing in his eyes.

We'll see what happens with Bigfoot and the Reem. I hope they don't end up stretching the training camp out to 4 months. That's probably at least part of why Overeem v Werdum looked like it did. Too much time in training camp.

[TheVileOne]

Overeem still looks overrated to me after tonight. I think JDS or Cain would smoke him in the UFC.

[DaveMoral]

I think Overeem is anything but overrated. That dude's stand up is no joke. His K-1 fights are fantastic, all of his other MMA bouts I've seen have been great.

[TheVileOne]

He got outstriked by Werdum in the third round. Didn't look like some amazing striker tonight. K-1 level doesn't mean jack **** in a MMA fight IMHO.

Junior dos Santos isn't K-1 level but he still KTFO'ed Werdum in less than two minutes.

[Paroxysm]

Reem could tango with JDS and Cain. Fights could go either way. Still be great to see.

[B]

Rogers is outta shape, doughy, and he's never looked like he had much heart.

I've said this in the build up to his fight with Fedor when people tried to proclaim Brett Rogers was one of MMA's best heavyweights & I still say it now: Brett Rogers is a glorified Kimbo Slice. He is barely better as well. He has no heart, no ground game, is fat & has crap conditioning. He will never beat anyone in MMA that has an ounce of standup or grappling skill about them.

Werdum was boring, as a result so was Overeem. I would have liked to see Overeem get to that point in the fight where he usually really tees off, but it just wasn't happening. Especially with Werdum taking as many breathers as he was. Nice to see that kid gassed though.

Was one of the worst fights I can remember seeing in Strikeforce, Werdum "fought" like a complete *****, if you want the fight to the ground you need to take it to the ground. Overeem did exactly what anyone with a braincell would have done & repeatedly made him stand back up for his ****e takedown attempts & baiting attempts trying to lure Overeem into his guard.

The story is that Werdum still sucks & it is an embarassment that he managed to end Fedor's winning streak & that Overeem is still overrated.

His striking didn't even look that good last night & that is his main area of expertise, he was standing head on with Werdum taking alot of shots.. had he done this against someone with abit of power in their shots he'd have ended up taking a pounding... AND his conditioning looked terrible, really terrible when you consider all he really did was stuff Werdum's takedown attempts, he hardly seemed to throw in the fight it seemed.

[Bubonic]

Continuously stuffing attempts and being forced into defensive mode at all times can be surprisingly exhausting.

Some might say that at that level conditioning should be absolutely perfect but these guys still don't seem to be making that much money overall, most need to work real jobs as well.

[E-Man]

The issue with Overeem and cardio would rear its head at a bad moment against a much stronger guy with better cardio. Lucky for him most heavies but Cain and possibly Brock have terrible cardio.

[Lots o lafs]

I think Overeem is anything but overrated. That dude's stand up is no joke. His K-1 fights are fantastic, all of his other MMA bouts I've seen have been great.

Yeah some people just don't know though.

His fights with Badr Hari are number 1. He's definately no joke, but if someone consistently falls to their back when you begin striking, it is hard to look good. I believe K1 actually does mean something, it is no different than being a top boxer or must Thai fighter and transitioning to mma, but to say it doesn't mean anything when kickboxing is a staple part of the sport is absurd.

I would question Brock's cardio, he doesn't tire himself out, because he doesn't put everything into his punches, his hammerfists are laughable, if he would cock his arm all the way back then he would have more power in his ground and pound, but also he would tire faster.

[B]

Yeah some people just don't know though.

His fights with Badr Hari are number 1. He's definately no joke, but if someone consistently falls to their back when you begin striking, it is hard to look good. I believe K1 actually does mean something, it is no different than being a top boxer or must Thai fighter and transitioning to mma, but to say it doesn't mean anything when kickboxing is a staple part of the sport is absurd.

I mainly think hes overrated for the same reason I feel Fedor was overrated in recent years. Go look at Overeem's MMA record. Hes what, on a 10 fight winning streak, give or take. Now look at the names of the people he has beaten during this 10 fight win streak, heck go one step further & look at the records of the guys when they fought the 'G.O.A.T.' according to some, Overeem. You've got a who's who list of nobodies & people coming in to fight Overeem on 2/3 fight losing streaks..

Even if Overeem wins the Strikeforce HW tournament, I still don't think he is any better a mixed martial artist than Cheick Kongo at this point. I mean Werdum got TKO'd by Junior Dos Santos after a minute & I don't value his win over Fedor as highly as he & the MMA world seems to, I had said for years that Fedor hadn't been fighting the top guys since his Pride days.

I actually hope Overeem does win the Strikeforce tournament, It would be interesting to see Brock Lesnar or Frank Mir fight Overeem in a no 1 contenders match to face winner of Dos Santos/Velasquez.

I would question Brock's cardio, he doesn't tire himself out, because he doesn't put everything into his punches, his hammerfists are laughable, if he would cock his arm all the way back then he would have more power in his ground and pound, but also he would tire faster.

I always smile at this one.

You should tell that to Frank Mir's hamburger face or Couture, neither of those guys seemed to think they were funny. :D

[Colossal Spoons]

Overeem/Verdum was almost as bad as Silva/Laites

[TheVileOne]

I think JDS would pick Overeem apart. He's a much better striker and he actually throws straight punches. Wouldn't kill Overeem to try throwing some jabs.

[Paroxysm]

I still have Josh Barnett winning the tourney

[E-Man]

I'm till not sold on Barnett just yet. I think he's got a good arsenal, but he really hasn't fought anyone worth a damn in years since he lost to Nog. I'm thinking the same thing with Sergei too. He beat Arlovski after looking like he's lost it, and Arlovski isn't a win to be proud of since he hasn't won a fight in almost three years. I think Barnett will take out Sergei since he's a better grappler, but I think his striking isn't enough to beat Overeem while Bigfoot's size would probably cause problems for him. Then again both of those guys have big holes in their game too, so Barnett could exploit them. Overeem has bad cardio while Bigfoot is very slow. Maybe Barnett does walk away with it, but there is always the question of if he could pass a drug test.

[brainchild81]

Sergei FTW

[misjuevos]

sup, people never even thought a section would be here about mma, the name i hope isn't just about ufc as i see you discussing SF. ill throw out a long post since im just getting into the thread here and would like to see where you guys stand.

only thing i want to see from overeem is his wrestling against a good american wrestler. dutch or most european fighters are really lacking in a takedown defense against american wrestlers. sure reem stuffed werdum but his wrestling is bad and his takedowns were very bad as well in this fight.

as far as the last 2 fights with jds i am still not sold on him, he just seems overrated at this point. couldnt finish a gassed out nelson and now couldn't finish carwin.

as far as boring, i thought the carwin/jds fight was boring and they were atleast engaging each other. the overeem/werdum fight was just funny to watch. werdum was so scared of overeem he just wanted to go to ground. as those "c'mon, come to ground" from werdum were so dumb. if you want it on the ground you have to get it there, not beg your opponent. i am really disappointed in this guy after that performance. i still like overeem.

[E-Man]

I can't wait to see the Faber and Cruz rematch next week. Cruz's style is just so awesome to watch, and the animosity between he and Urijah could make for some funny ass moments in the fight. Should be a really good fight.

There is also Wanderlei vs. Leben. Oh hell yeah that fight is going to be grand.

[Paroxysm]

the overeem/werdum fight was just funny to watch. werdum was so scared of overeem he just wanted to go to ground. as those "c'mon, come to ground" from werdum were so dumb. if you want it on the ground you have to get it there, not beg your opponent. i am really disappointed in this guy after that performance. i still like overeem.

Yeah I thought the same thing.

[DaveMoral]

He got outstriked by Werdum in the third round. Didn't look like some amazing striker tonight. K-1 level doesn't mean jack **** in a MMA fight IMHO.

Junior dos Santos isn't K-1 level but he still KTFO'ed Werdum in less than two minutes.

Overeem dominated K1 after bashing his way through Strikeforce. Have you even watched those fights? The guy was nearly getting himself into violations all the time because he'd do two-handed clinches and that's illegal in K1.

His K1 performance means a ton, considering that there are arguably more skilled strikers that he beat there. He could stand to throw some jabs, most MMA strikers could, and he was eating jabs like crazy in K1. The guy is a beast with a chin of steel, he eats that **** up, it doesn't faze him and he just walks in a mauls his opponents.

I don't know what Overeem's deal was against Werdum, no idea why he didn't just tee off on the guy. It's organized fighting though, so really who knows what kind of double dealing is going on behind the scenes. As far as I'm concerned Overeem shouldn't even be in this Grand Prix considering the big prize is a title shot against him. I could say I suspect there's an aspect of him playing it restrained because #1, there's nothing at stake for him in this tourney and #2 they want to build up his contenders.

Werdum was the real weak link in that fight, and there should be repercussions for that garbage. Lose some of his purse or something. He didn't earn anything that night.

[Paroxysm]

Werdum was the real weak link in that fight, and there should be repercussions for that garbage. Lose some of his purse or something. He didn't earn anything that night.

http://www.culturebully.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Strikeforce-Overeem-vs-Werdum-2.jpg

Expect the praise of the lord.

[Paroxysm]

Dana White Fires Nate Marquardt from the UFC ahead of UFC On Versus 4

tQaBWgt7_gk

[El Bastardo]

Holy ****.

[E-Man]

Huge surprise tere with Nate getting cut. It's gotta be something serious like him on some sort of drugs. He's been busted for PEDs before, and that doesn't seem like the thing that would get him instantly cut the night before an event. I'm very curious as to what it is because I liked Nate.

[DaveMoral]

Crazy.

[DoomsdayApex]

Are you folks serious?

Overeem was NOT outstruck by Werdum per se. Alistair let Fabricio come in. Werdum was just looking to set the takedown and Overeem sniffed it out. Furthermore, Alistair has fought Werdum before, he knows Fabricio has below average knock out power.

Overeem gassed himself out by going for too many power shots, and stuffing the takedowns.

Hey noobs, you do realize that Werdum actually has a stable chin right? He's only been knocked out by Junior Dos Santos in his entire MMA career. Not only did he take some nasty shots from Overeem but from other powerful strikers like Kharitonov, Emelianenko, Gonzaga, Arlovski and Silva in the past.

[DoomsdayApex]

By the by:

K-1 Striking >>>>> MMA Striking

It's beyond asinine to claim otherwise. JDS is an excellent Boxer but he was exposed when he fought Nelson. JDS is very one-dimensional with his strikes (barely throws leg kicks and knees).

I like Cain but he was nearly obliterated when he decided to stand and trade with Kongo. Velasquez's manager and training staff have already stated that they want no part of Overeem's stand up in a fight.

[misjuevos]

ajR3imsd5EE

just a funny video of hector lombard talking about nate being cut. i like the end where he talks about his motivation.

[CrypticOne]

Huge surprise tere with Nate getting cut. It's gotta be something serious like him on some sort of drugs. He's been busted for PEDs before, and that doesn't seem like the thing that would get him instantly cut the night before an event. I'm very curious as to what it is because I liked Nate.

They said it wasn't PEDs this time. And apparently the UFC has known about this since Monday. I wonder what the hell it was that got him cut.

[Paroxysm]

Pennsylvania State Athletic Commission will be meeting with the media at 4 p.m ET/1 p.m. PT today to address the UFC on Versus 4 card. The rep is apparently going to shed some light on the Nate Marquardt situation
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/6/26/2245219/marquardt-pennsylvania-state-athletic-commission-rep-q-a-live-coverage

[Mace Bloodstone]

Hope Kongo puts on a good show.

[E-Man]

It sucks that the Lentz/Olivera fight had to end like that. Really bad reffing, even though at that point the illegal knee from Olivera was just one move in many that were leading to Lentz getting knocked out. I don't think it was a dirty knee either. Just him being too aggressive. The ref should have at least give Lentz some time to recover. Still, I just love Olivera's style. He goes for submissions and sweeps all the time instead of just laying there and whining about wrestlers.

[Paroxysm]

It sucks that the Lentz/Olivera fight had to end like that. Really bad reffing, even though at that point the illegal knee from Olivera was just one move in many that were leading to Lentz getting knocked out. I don't think it was a dirty knee either. Just him being too aggressive. The ref should have at least give Lentz some time to recover. Still, I just love Olivera's style. He goes for submissions and sweeps all the time instead of just laying there and whining about wrestlers.

UFC commentator Joe Rogan announces that the Pennsylvania State Athletic Commission will review the fight due to the obvious foul.

:up: because that was ********. Chip Snider needs ****ing glasses.

[El Bastardo]

Man, I can't wait for Nate to come clean.

[E-Man]

Holy ****!

[El Bastardo]

Wow, what a ****ing main event.

[Mace Bloodstone]

YEAH!!! He's lucky it didn't get stopped sooner :funny:

[E-Man]

Barry has a legitimate claim to be pissed. With that said, I'll just repeat what Craig and Smokey said to Red...

Dayummmmmmmmm!

[El Bastardo]

The only reason Barry should be pissed is that he threw caution to the wind.

[Iron_Stark]

That was crazy!!

Barry got too crazy and didn't place his shots well, that's why Kongo wasn't out and why the ref didn't stop it.

[Paroxysm]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-WSYvpHqAKyo/Tgf19tuCG8I/AAAAAAAADoQ/VScpt-Y3Fzs/s1600/7.gif

[misjuevos]

my favorite fight was the oliviera fight, regardless of end. it was the most exciting.

[B]

It has been a while since I can last remember not only a UFC Main Event, but an MMA Main Event period that has had such a good finish as Kongo/Barry.

I've read comments on MMAFighting.com, people saying Barry should be pissed because he had Kongo beat. Bull' ****ing' ****. If Kongo was out cold the ref would have stopped it, fact is Kongo was still intelligently moving & trying to survive. He was hurt badly, but he wasn't finished. Now Barry was finished, he was out cold & took 3 or 4 shots after he was out.

What an exciting fight between those 2, I like Pat Barry & his savage leg kicks alot so I hope he comes back from this, I wasn't a massive fan of Kongo after a few lacklustre performances & the chance he let slip to knock Mir the **** out.. but hes definatly redeemed himself with a good show of heart.

I've yet to see any of the other matches yet, however from what I hear it was a very good card so I can't wait to sit down & watch it later. :up:

[misjuevos]

the oliviera fight was great. i love watching jiu jitsu, and the counters or reversals or just scrambles and rolling for position. some of the most exciting attempts. i am happy it got fight of the night.

[kane9321]

great fight card lastnight ...kongo wow. Olivera fight awesome..I can watch jiu jitsu all day

[Bubonic]

Just starting watching last nights card now.
It's damned brutal to see em big boys go at it, just the amount of damage they inflict with each blow...

Mitrione showed a lot of class walking away in the end. With the mouthpiece out he could of murdered that kid.

If Mitrione wants to be a serious contender he's gonna have to sharpen up his cardio and keep those ****ing hands up. Obviously he's got a good chin but any of the top heavies would exploit that confidence and drop him.

[TheVileOne]

Come clean Nate Marquardt. Your future career is at stake. Dana White says you will never fight in the UFC again.

[mrvlknight21]

Hey guys, I thought you may be interested in this article about what the author is calling a 9 year prime career by most MMA fighters:
http://www.fightopinion.com/2011/06/19/9-year-rule-mma-ufc/


Also, what are the hopes and predicitions for this coming weekend's UFC event?

[Bubonic]

Really nice little war between Brown and Howard, continuous scramble, a really dynamic fight... Really hate the inbred retards in the crowd, how can we be in 2011 and still have crowds this ignorant about mma?

They don't recognize the sweet reversals, transitions and takedowns and takedown defence, as soon as there is a 5 second pause in action they're booing, or even when there is some legitimate ground work happening they are booing... Wish they could get a brick in their collective faces, really no better than Roman times, bunch of ignorant bloodthirsty idiots.

[Paroxysm]

Those half fans just want blood and knockouts.

Ancient Rome we are not.

[Bubonic]

Hard to tell sometimes, and being from Montreal I know.
Our mma fans are as classless as they get at times.

[Bubonic]

Great job between Brennerman and Story, but funny to see the crowds hypocrisy.
The ref pandered to the hometown hero, but he did deserve the win. Just saying though, had it any other pair of fighters they'd of booed the wrestling.

Yes yes, I'm Mr. Late to the party.

[DoomsdayApex]

It's starting to get mundane with the crowds.

Most of the American base at the UFC events are clueless violent drunks wishing for bloodshed. Hell, most of them think the sport is called 'UFC' (which oddly enough this thread is labeled under, instead of 'MMA').

I miss the PRIDE events...

[Bubonic]

VIVE LA FRANCE!!!
Holy jumping jellybeans, well that's one for the good graces of the French! :woot:

Dan is the man, such a good eye on him, wow, just wow.
J'suis complètement émerveiller!

It's starting to get mundane with the crowds.

Most of the American base at the UFC events are clueless violent drunks wishing for bloodshed. Hell, most of them think the sport is called 'UFC' (which oddly enough this thread is labeled under, instead of 'MMA').

I miss the PRIDE events...

Pride was a nasty division, soccer kicks are a bit much!

Also I obviously agree with you, the crowds are completely uneducated when it comes to mma. I **** myself laughing anytime someone asks me if I train UFC.

Honestly the thread should be changed but there is no denying that there's no organization that seems to come close to it in terms of quality at the moment. I can't even be bothered to remember last weeks Strikeforce after this sublime card.

[mrvlknight21]

Really nice little war between Brown and Howard, continuous scramble, a really dynamic fight... Really hate the inbred retards in the crowd, how can we be in 2011 and still have crowds this ignorant about mma?

They don't recognize the sweet reversals, transitions and takedowns and takedown defence, as soon as there is a 5 second pause in action they're booing, or even when there is some legitimate ground work happening they are booing... Wish they could get a brick in their collective faces, really no better than Roman times, bunch of ignorant bloodthirsty idiots.

It's starting to get mundane with the crowds.

Most of the American base at the UFC events are clueless violent drunks wishing for bloodshed. Hell, most of them think the sport is called 'UFC' (which oddly enough this thread is labeled under, instead of 'MMA').

I miss the PRIDE events...

I think that is changing day by day, though. Many more fans NOW know more about the sport than the fans of just 3-4 years ago, in my opinion.

UFC is obviously the most recognized because of their marketing/advertising/etc.

[Sakuraba]

I think that is changing day by day, though. Many more fans NOW know more about the sport than the fans of just 3-4 years ago, in my opinion.

UFC is obviously the most recognized because of their marketing/advertising/etc.

As someone who started off watching bootlegged RINGS vhs tapes over a decade ago, the fanbase of today is pretty well clueless about the history of the sport which is critical to understanding the sport today. MMA in the mainstream has plauteaued quite a bit over the past few years and so the mainstream fans are more aware of the mechanics of mixed fights, but they are still so ignorant, and you know that's okay. I don't expect to get quality coverage of Wimbledon from the columnists on Around the Horn. I don't expect the average MMA fan to know who Takada or Rikidozan are, much less Akira Maeda or Ad Santel. I don't even expect them to be familar with Rorion Gracie or Bob Meyrowitz.

The gist of my comment here is that there existed a time when there were only hardcore fans and decent, meaningful conversations happened. You actually learned something by communicating with other fans. These were the days when people would orgasm when susumu would upload pics from events in Japan. It's not that I miss PRIDE and things like Rickson and Royler doing a GJJ demo in the middle of an event, or the unified rules before Larry Hazzard's eyes were stained by Gan McGee, or the days when the Shooto welterweight division was the greatest thing in the world, I just miss the exclusivity of the sport. Random people talk about it now and I honestly don't want to talk about it with them. It's impossible to have a fulfilling conversation with the modern fan because they are so loud and without analytical skills as it relates to MMA.

The sad thing is that the original fans have largely disappeared from the online community or vanished in the influx of new fans. They're either quiet spectators now or they have left the product they were addicted to.

[E-Man]

To me the worst fans of MMA are the elitist hardcores that whine about everything. The most vocal idiots are the ones claiming that they have been watching since UFC 1, and that they understand and respect the sport and all that noise. What's funny about these types are that they always complain about fans booing when it goes to the ground, but they constantly bash Fitch, GSP, Rashad, Maynard, and any other North American with a good wrestling base for taking the fight to the ground. Casual fans can be some drunken idiots, but at least a lot of them pay to support MMA. For all the talk about how great PRIDE's fans being great they sure did abandon the sport like it was a fad. Hardcores just complain about everything and talk about what's bad for the sport. They then use illegal streams instead of buying anything. I hate hypocrites like that.

[Mace Bloodstone]

That's true in every sport.

[DoomsdayApex]

To me the worst fans of MMA are the elitist hardcores that whine about everything. The most vocal idiots are the ones claiming that they have been watching since UFC 1, and that they understand and respect the sport and all that noise. What's funny about these types are that they always complain about fans booing when it goes to the ground, but they constantly bash Fitch, GSP, Rashad, Maynard, and any other North American with a good wrestling base for taking the fight to the ground. Casual fans can be some drunken idiots, but at least a lot of them pay to support MMA. For all the talk about how great PRIDE's fans being great they sure did abandon the sport like it was a fad. Hardcores just complain about everything and talk about what's bad for the sport. They then use illegal streams instead of buying anything. I hate hypocrites like that.


Are you kidding me? Fighters are viewed as Gods and treated like Rock Stars in Japan.

The fans didn't abandon the sport, PRIDE management destroyed themselves from within. It's a shame too considering PRIDE had the most exciting bouts in MMA history.

[DoomsdayApex]

I agree, the soccer kicks were vicious but it kept a certain balance in the system.

While I am a fan of GSP and Fitch, they depend on grinding out a decision rather than finishing a fight (taking risks). Soccer kicks, Stomps, Yellow Cards, etc are desperately needed again... yet, we're then left in an era where fighters shrug off TDD once more.

Personally, I would bring back the Yellow Card to keep the balance. Western MMA is filled with Wrestlers, and alot of them are one-dimensional.

[mrvlknight21]

Well, in my experience, the guys I watch with and talk to about the UFC fights (again, because they have the biggest broadcasts and all) seem to have some idea about what is going on in a match and aren't just looking for bloodshed as was stated before.

I have some martial arts background and when I started BJJ, it really opened my eyes and made me appreciate the chess game that happens on the ground. And that is what I meant by my statement. Many of these fans (again, in my experience) have begun to educate themselves (and/or train) about the sport and the various arts that are used in most matches. Thus, a greater understanding and appreciation of MMA.

I'm not saying there aren't guys who want a bloody slugfest everytime. But I really think that those numbers have dwindled some.

[mrvlknight21]

Reposting this because it got bumped shortly after I posted it:

Hey guys, I thought you may be interested in this article about what the author is calling a 9 year prime career by most MMA fighters:
http://www.fightopinion.com/2011/06/...-rule-mma-ufc/


Also, what are the hopes and predicitions for this coming weekend's UFC event (UFC 132, July 2)?

fight card:
Cruz vs Faber
Silva vs Leben

Ortiz vs Bader

Condit vs Kim

Siver vs Wiman

Guillard vs Roller

Sotiropoulos vs Dos Anjos

Bowles vs Mizugaki

Tavares vs Simpson

Njokuani vs Winner

Hougland vs Walker

[E-Man]

Are you kidding me? Fighters are viewed as Gods and treated like Rock Stars in Japan.

The fans didn't abandon the sport, PRIDE management destroyed themselves from within. It's a shame too considering PRIDE had the most exciting bouts in MMA history.

Why haven't the fans backed DREAM and Sengoku then? Part of it is poor management, but it seems that MMA was a fad there in Japan. PRIDE was so popular that there should have at least been some momentum there to help other orgs out. All that's really left is DEEP and Shooto, and they're not getting much love there right now either.

[Paroxysm]

I think PRIDE went under because of shady dealings and associations with Yakuza. That did some serious damage to MMA’s image in Japan and now in the last 10 years, Japan’s economy isn't very good and that means that the sponsors have all but disappeared. They have no money to throw around like they used to.

It's a shame and money issue.

[DoomsdayApex]

That's like asking why the US fans do not back organizations like Bellator alot more. The smaller organizations don't do well, even in Japan. DREAM had it's moments but it failed to capture the attention of fans due to depth and marketing issues.

Before FEG fell into deep financial problems, K-1 was also very popular in Japan. Fighters like Overeem, Hari, Aerts, etc were featured on billboards and stopped on the streets for autographs.

[DoomsdayApex]

Like Paroxysm also pointed out, another huge reason why MMA is a lost sport in that country is due to the corrupt image it maintains.

[E-Man]

Yeah I know the Yakuza had a lot to do with PRIDE folding. DREAM seemed to have some good backing with FEG, but considering how they're doing I can see why they're on the verge of collapsing. My point still is that Japanese fans aren't too different from North American and European fans in terms of knowledge and support. They're just a lot more respectful because of the different culture. I really can't recall them booing anyone except Akiyama. lol

[Sakuraba]

For all the talk about how great PRIDE's fans being great they sure did abandon the sport like it was a fad. Hardcores just complain about everything and talk about what's bad for the sport. They then use illegal streams instead of buying anything. I hate hypocrites like that.

-I don't think most or even a sizable minority are drunken idiots. They just aren't knowledgable about the sport. Hence them being "casual" fans. They are smart people, people I work with, people I associate with, they just can't have an intelligible conversation about MMA. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just a barbarian sport.

-Most of these PRIDE fanboys are guys that got started watching UFC when TUF was slotted behind RAW, then they started watching PRIDE clip shows on FSN. Viola the PRIDE fanboys are born. These fans still watch UFC, complain about it, and talk about the glory of PRIDE or whatever. They'll still be talking about it ten years from now because nostalgia only grows stronger. Of course, nostalgia is a history that isn't true, but that's irrelevant when emotions are involved.

-Of course mma was a fad in Japan. Started with Funaki/Rickson and ended when Fuji pulled the plug on DSE after the Shukin Gendai series. No new ground being broken here. Now for the North American Pride fans, see the bullet above.

-I have no personal animosity toward any wrestler. That'd be silly. I have a problem with scoring. If your inactive on top and the guy on bottom is working and scoring, then he should win the round. Being on top or on bottom, in and of itself, is not scoring.

[E-Man]

When you really get down to it though, most casual fans aren't that knowledgeable about the sports they watch. I'm a huge football fan, and a lot of fans just watch it and don't know much besides the big hits and touchdowns. Nothing wrong with that. We're all casual fans of something. With MMA there is a vocal minority that has this wanna be macho mentality to it. I just laugh or ignore those guys, but the so called hardcores irk me because there are so many blatant lies told in hipster fashion.

And of course you wouldn't have a problem with wrestlers. Your screen name is Sakuraba. :o

[TheVileOne]

Hardcore fans need to get over the UFC hate. UFC is driving the sport and making it important. It is not UFC's fault when competition goes under and these fly by night rinky dink promotions go under. It is not UFC's job to create competition. Strikeforce wouldn't have even been promoting MMA if not for UFC.

[misjuevos]

The funniest thing about zuffa buying out pride is they helped to fund the creation of dream. Best part of dream and strikeforce was the crossover fights. We got to see the 2 organizations fight each other.

[TheVileOne]

Well DREAM is a ****** organization considering they've not paid all of their fighters.

Also the crossover fights weren't very good: IE Nick Diaz vs. Hayato Sakurai.

Also it was pretty lame that Scott Coker once basically said he has no problem with co-promoting and yet he refused to co-promote with Bellator. Gilbert Melendez/Eddie Alvarez could've been a big fight for both organizations but Coker sat on his hands over it. Seemed to be threatened by the idea of co-promoting with Bellator for whatever reason.

[B]

2 questions/comments:

Why the **** am I reading stories about Nate Marquardt having AID's.. I don't know if that is accurate, however I am reading stories that the reason Nate was fired & Dana White was disguisted with him was the fact that he withheld information right up until the day before the event about some disease he knew he was carrying, supposedly a treatable illness (or one that you can be cleared to fight with during treatment).. if Nate does have AID's or indeed any disease, that is pretty ****ed up that he would withold such information considering the potential for contracting the disease through a fight through blood.

Jon Jones is gonna fight Rampage at UFC 135 for those that didn't know, also Rashad Evans made a few comments on Twitter stating he'd be willing to temporarily put any differences with Rampage to one side & help him train to beat Jones..

[Scar Predator]

As someone who started off watching bootlegged RINGS vhs tapes over a decade ago, the fanbase of today is pretty well clueless about the history of the sport which is critical to understanding the sport today. MMA in the mainstream has plauteaued quite a bit over the past few years and so the mainstream fans are more aware of the mechanics of mixed fights, but they are still so ignorant, and you know that's okay. I don't expect to get quality coverage of Wimbledon from the columnists on Around the Horn. I don't expect the average MMA fan to know who Takada or Rikidozan are, much less Akira Maeda or Ad Santel. I don't even expect them to be familar with Rorion Gracie or Bob Meyrowitz.

The gist of my comment here is that there existed a time when there were only hardcore fans and decent, meaningful conversations happened. You actually learned something by communicating with other fans. These were the days when people would orgasm when susumu would upload pics from events in Japan. It's not that I miss PRIDE and things like Rickson and Royler doing a GJJ demo in the middle of an event, or the unified rules before Larry Hazzard's eyes were stained by Gan McGee, or the days when the Shooto welterweight division was the greatest thing in the world, I just miss the exclusivity of the sport. Random people talk about it now and I honestly don't want to talk about it with them. It's impossible to have a fulfilling conversation with the modern fan because they are so loud and without analytical skills as it relates to MMA.

The sad thing is that the original fans have largely disappeared from the online community or vanished in the influx of new fans. They're either quiet spectators now or they have left the product they were addicted to.

Well said. When UFC began, it's viewership was almost exclusively composed of people engaged in MA, boxing, or wrestling. It was thrilling to see styles clash as so many of us had spent years dreaming of diverse fighters/fighting styles having a competitive venue. If you were a fan back then, it was because you already loved the nature of combat sports.

I'm glad with UFC has grown. I don't bemoan kids wearing tapout gear even though most of them have probably never thrown a crossface in their lives. What I don't like is the influx of the type of fan that plagues all sports: dumb, incessantly loud, drunk. That type of fan has always made me wary of live sporting events, even though I'm passionate about several sports.:csad:

[El Bastardo]

2 questions/comments:

Why the **** am I reading stories about Nate Marquardt having AID's.. I don't know if that is accurate, however I am reading stories that the reason Nate was fired & Dana White was disguisted with him was the fact that he withheld information right up until the day before the event about some disease he knew he was carrying, supposedly a treatable illness (or one that you can be cleared to fight with during treatment).. if Nate does have AID's or indeed any disease, that is pretty ****ed up that he would withold such information considering the potential for contracting the disease through a fight through blood.

Jon Jones is gonna fight Rampage at UFC 135 for those that didn't know, also Rashad Evans made a few comments on Twitter stating he'd be willing to temporarily put any differences with Rampage to one side & help him train to beat Jones..
It's been stated by both the PennState Athletic Commission and Dana that all of them were in the know regarding whatever was preventing Nate from clearing his medicals for six weeks prior to the date he needed clearance. The spokesperson for the AC also stated that everyone assumed Nate would get cleared with time to spare. So I don't see how Nate could have hidden anything until right before, and it's obviously not AIDS.

Nate's supposed to give information sometime today. I wouldn't believe anything until then, though I also might not believe what he says until Dana or the AC confirm it.

[Sakuraba]

And of course you wouldn't have a problem with wrestlers. Your screen name is Sakuraba. :o

In terms of MMA though, he's not an amateur wrestler/amateur style in the sense you were talking. He has legitimate lineage in Lancashire catch-as-catch-can. Sakuraba < Takada < Inoki < Karl Gotch < Billy Riley < Lancashire mats.

[mrvlknight21]

2 questions/comments:

Why the **** am I reading stories about Nate Marquardt having AID's.. I don't know if that is accurate, however I am reading stories that the reason Nate was fired & Dana White was disguisted with him was the fact that he withheld information right up until the day before the event about some disease he knew he was carrying, supposedly a treatable illness (or one that you can be cleared to fight with during treatment).. if Nate does have AID's or indeed any disease, that is pretty ****ed up that he would withold such information considering the potential for contracting the disease through a fight through blood.

Jon Jones is gonna fight Rampage at UFC 135 for those that didn't know, also Rashad Evans made a few comments on Twitter stating he'd be willing to temporarily put any differences with Rampage to one side & help him train to beat Jones..

Wow. I had heard debate about what NM might have, but many kept saying it was drug related and not a disease.

Also, Jon Jones is going to hurt Rampage's feelings if they fight.

Well said. When UFC began, it's viewership was almost exclusively composed of people engaged in MA, boxing, or wrestling. It was thrilling to see styles clash as so many of us had spent years dreaming of diverse fighters/fighting styles having a competitive venue. If you were a fan back then, it was because you already loved the nature of combat sports.

I'm glad with UFC has grown. I don't bemoan kids wearing tapout gear even though most of them have probably never thrown a crossface in their lives. What I don't like is the influx of the type of fan that plagues all sports: dumb, incessantly loud, drunk. That type of fan has always made me wary of live sporting events, even though I'm passionate about several sports.:csad:

I agree with this.

[El Bastardo]

http://mmajunkie.com/news/24189/nate-marquardt-blames-testosterone-replacement-therapy-for-ufc-on-versus-4-scratch.mma

[TheVileOne]

I call BS. It doesn't take six weeks to show perscription or permission from the doctor.

This sounds like Anthony "I GOT HACKED" Weiner.

[E-Man]

I only caught the last part of the MMA Hour where Nate and I guess it a man who is his manager were talking to Ariel Helwani about the situation. All I saw was them talking about how Nate is sorry and how his career would move forward and all. I don't buy the hormone replacement theory though. For him to get cut like this means that there is probably something deeper. If it was Dana overreacting then I'm sure Lorenzo would have jumped in and resigned Nate by now like he did with the AKA camp.

In other good(but old) news Hioki signed with the UFC over the weekend. The featherweights are getting more and more exciting.

[El Bastardo]

I call BS. It doesn't take six weeks to show perscription or permission from the doctor.

This sounds like Anthony "I GOT HACKED" Weiner.
Six weeks to get his testosterone within reasonable levels if it was too high, could be, and he didn't.

[TheVileOne]

But is that what it is? Did PSAC know he had permission to use this?

OK here is the deal. Fighters using this thing, OK. Do they really need it? And if they do, shouldn't it just bring them back up to normal levels? Can't a doctor warn the commission that it might make it higher?

Just very suspicious to me.

Now to play devil's advocate, I think I've read in articles that Dan Henderson and Randy Couture have also used this treatment.

[El Bastardo]

Oh, I agree. I'm waiting to see if PSAC or Dana pop up to either confirm his explanation, or suggest he's not telling the whole truth.

In the event he is, then yeah, curious as to what did it. But no, it seems that just because a doctor has prescribed something doesn't mean an athletic commission will allow it to bypass their regulations. Makes sense, else fighters could potentially get 'scrips for anything a doctor's willing to prescribe.

[Kane52630]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=357893
funny.

[DaveMoral]

I agree, the soccer kicks were vicious but it kept a certain balance in the system.

While I am a fan of GSP and Fitch, they depend on grinding out a decision rather than finishing a fight (taking risks). Soccer kicks, Stomps, Yellow Cards, etc are desperately needed again... yet, we're then left in an era where fighters shrug off TDD once more.

Personally, I would bring back the Yellow Card to keep the balance. Western MMA is filled with Wrestlers, and alot of them are one-dimensional.

To be honest, having just watched a few Art of War clips from China... I hope the quality of their MMA and fighters rises and they keep their current rules. You don't see stomps to guys trying to pull guard in UFC or Strikeforce, but Art of War has that aplenty.

Imagine what would have happened to Werdum if Overeem were allowed to stomp the **** out of him every time he tried to pull guard and invite Overeem to the ground.

Also, I bemoan kids wearing Tapout gear. In part because they probably haven't done a days worth of martial arts in their lives for the most part. But mostly because I hate the whole juggalo image of Tapout. Absolutely loathe it.

[B]

It's been stated by both the PennState Athletic Commission and Dana that all of them were in the know regarding whatever was preventing Nate from clearing his medicals for six weeks prior to the date he needed clearance. The spokesperson for the AC also stated that everyone assumed Nate would get cleared with time to spare. So I don't see how Nate could have hidden anything until right before, and it's obviously not AIDS.

Nate's supposed to give information sometime today. I wouldn't believe anything until then, though I also might not believe what he says until Dana or the AC confirm it.

I see, I wasn't keeping up to date with the situation, this information flew straight over my head. Someone has obviously twisted what was actually said & turned it into a moronic internet rumour. The few blogs I read stated that Nate & his doctor were the only people who knew about what the problem was up to 6 weeks prior to the fight & didn't disclose it correctly.

Obviously this is incorrect seeing as he seems to have conveniently had the same problem as Chael Sonnen that requires steriod treatment.. :dry: :whatever:

Couldn't care less anyway to be fair, Kongo/Barry was a better Main Event than Nate/Story would have put on.

[El Bastardo]

Yeah, and Brenneman/Story was probably a better fight than Marquardt/Story would have been.

[Lots o lafs]

Nate marquadt got caught using steroids, and like all people caught he has an excuse.

Dana was obviously pissed, because not only is it his second time, but Dana put a a lot into hyping this fight. Time and energy, oh yeah and money.

Also I think marquadt would have destroyed story, he is a better wrestler and has better hands.

I hate hype trains, kimbo, Todd duffy, and story, if something sounds too good to be true, it most likely is.

Anyways I can't wait for wanderlei silva v. Chris leben, it should be a slug fest, but I think Lebens ultimate destruction will come if he cannot avoid the clinch.

[DoomsdayApex]

To be honest, having just watched a few Art of War clips from China... I hope the quality of their MMA and fighters rises and they keep their current rules. You don't see stomps to guys trying to pull guard in UFC or Strikeforce, but Art of War has that aplenty.

Imagine what would have happened to Werdum if Overeem were allowed to stomp the **** out of him every time he tried to pull guard and invite Overeem to the ground.

Also, I bemoan kids wearing Tapout gear. In part because they probably haven't done a days worth of martial arts in their lives for the most part. But mostly because I hate the whole juggalo image of Tapout. Absolutely loathe it.


Western MMA needs stomps and soccers kicks. And the 12-6 elbow ban is a joke as well. The amount of force that a 1-7 elbow delivers is the same amount of that a 12-6 elbow. It's ridiculous.

Exactly, Werdum would have never pulled that stunt.

[DoomsdayApex]

I have to disagree with your view guys.

Dana acted as if Nate slaughtered an innocent child. Yet, he seems to support a low-life like Chael Sonnen (who lied three times to Dana's and investigator's faces).

There's a thin line between actually having a medical condition which requires TRT, and bringing yourself to that medical condition on purpose - just so you could have TRT. One of the most common reasons for low testosterone levels is dehydration, which can be easily achieved during "sweaty" training, weight cuts, and sauna. So, it looks like Testosterone Replacement Therapy can be easily become a common issue in MMA, especially when fighters know and can bring it back into normal levels before the fight.

Nate began treatment using the "therapeutic use exemption" in his fight against Dan Miller at UFC 128 in New Jersey after his primary physician diagnosed him with low testosterone in August of 2010. Marquardt was advised by his doctor to pursue a new, "more aggressive therapy" three weeks out from his fight against Rick Story. He took a blood test two weeks out from the fight and the levels came back too high. His doctor then told him to get off the treatment.

The weight cut had nothing to do with his decision to resume TRT but Nate believes it could have altered his blood levels, causing the levels to be elevated on the day of the weigh ins (blood "concentration") and significantly decreased the very next day.

[misjuevos]

Well DREAM is a ****** organization considering they've not paid all of their fighters.

Also the crossover fights weren't very good: IE Nick Diaz vs. Hayato Sakurai.

Also it was pretty lame that Scott Coker once basically said he has no problem with co-promoting and yet he refused to co-promote with Bellator. Gilbert Melendez/Eddie Alvarez could've been a big fight for both organizations but Coker sat on his hands over it. Seemed to be threatened by the idea of co-promoting with Bellator for whatever reason.

I enjoyed the dream/sf matches. Also why would coker co promote with bellator when he could just send Gilbert to dream to fight Eddie. he is already in a business relationship with dream and Eddie also fights for dream. Why bother with Bellator when the guy you want is already in your business associates organization. This way it Wouldnt be a title fight for either.

[TheVileOne]

Alvarez hasn't fought in DREAM in 3 years and isn't going to be fighting there any time soon.

Also, Coker's attitude was, I want to co-promote and I have no problem with co-promoting except with Bellator.

Melendez isn't going to fight in DREAM either.

[DaveMoral]

Western MMA needs stomps and soccers kicks. And the 12-6 elbow ban is a joke as well. The amount of force that a 1-7 elbow delivers is the same amount of that a 12-6 elbow. It's ridiculous.

Exactly, Werdum would have never pulled that stunt.

Exactly.

Another latecomer to the party, I just watched this weeks UFC on Versus... HOLY **** Cheick Kongo! That was unbelievable.

[JKDilla]

I would be fine if the unifed rules of MMA allowed knees to the head of a grounded opponent.

As much as I loved Pride rules, I doubt any US state athletic commission would approve of stomps or soccer kicks.

[B]

I would like stomps & soccer kicks to be in the UFC, however if these were reintroduced it would take away from the reputation that Dana & the UFC have tried to build for the UFC that it is as much a gentleman's sport as boxing.. kicking an opponent in the face while they are down doesn't seem very sporting.. although it would make people like Werdum think twice about lying on his back so often so...

As for knees to the head, well in the situation that Bisping delivered that illegal knee I would allow it & in the situation were someone is trying to exploit the rules by holding his hand to the mat but is still standing. The only knee that I would consider illegal is a spiking knee to the top of the head from north/south as it can cause instant death.

But knees from side control, back side control etc all should be allowed, it will force people to work more on the ground to get out of the position they are in or else get knocked out.

[E-Man]

I'm all for knees to the head on the ground. It's not as bad as it looks, and it's another good tool for ground and pound. The Olivera knee to Lentz was pretty cool, but I hate that it was illegal.

Soccer kicks and stomps are a little too much for me. I think they are worse than headbutts, and headbutts would be far too advantageous to grapplers with good takedowns. Upkicks on the ground need to be enforced to give the guy on the bottom a better edge against someone on top who could do almost anything.

[Bubonic]

Knees to the head aren't as bad as they look?
Good sir, have you ever taken a knee to the head while grounded?

I think the UFC is fine as it is, just the right touch of barbarism and sportsmanship. If they ever really degraded it back to the complete bloodsport it used to be than these men need to get paid a hell of a lot more than they have been.

Honestly though, it amazes me how little some of these guys get paid. Look at Hominick at the Toronto UFC not long ago. He was co-main event and had he not earned fight of the night he'd only have gotten 6000 dollars.

That's ridiculously low.

[E-Man]

Well I don't mean that they don't hurt. Just that they are about as bad as knees in the Thai clinch. lol

[Bubonic]

I think it is because a lot of the knees you'll get while grounded will be to the side of your head as opposed to right in the middle of your face or under the chin while in the clinch.

[DoomsdayApex]

Yes, I agree with you Bubonic. MMA fighters are grossly underpaid, but I'm afraid that is going to continue until a steady rival will appear. Unfortunately, the UFC is a monopoly.

I disagree with views on soccer kicks and stomps. Yes, they are brutal but they are an aspect of a real fight or combat scenario. Don't get me wrong, there should be a limit on them but I say legalize them at the same time (along with knees to a grounded opponent, 12-6 elbows, and upkicks).

[Bubonic]

People are deluded to think that mma is representative of a real combat scenario.
Crowds would love it if it did, but fighters wouldn't last very long.