Marion Cottilard in The Dark Knight Rises?

[aandfrugby25]

I just dont get it without having the backstory of Batman meeting Talia and falling in love with her, then having him have to choose between her or his morals. Without this story she basically loses all the interesting parts about her. Without this she could literally be interchangeable with anyone else seeking revenge. Sure she Rah's daughter but that is not why she is a good charecter. She is interesting because she represents how easy it would be for Batman to have joined the League. Without that backstory she loses the very essence of why her character is interesting. And yet still people want her in the movie. To me it is the same as if people were begging to have Joker in the movie knowing that he couldnt be a homicidal killer dressed as a clown, the very thing that makes him interesting. If you divorce the character from there identity then it really is no longer them. Sure changes were made to Joker, Two Face, and Scarecrow but they were fundamentally the same characters we know and love. I just dont see any reason for Talia to be in the movie, knowing she will be missing her key component.

[iamcitizen]

Give me an example of one.

Wait, so let me get this straight: You are challenging me, a person who is not a writer, to come up with an interesting, original story involving Bane and the League of Shadows. Then, when I am unsuccessful (which is inevitable, since I am, again, not a writer) you are going to use that as evidence that it is impossible for anyone, even talented professional writers, to come up with an interesting, original story involving Bane and the League of Shadows. Is that about right?

[TheBatman072]

Wait, so let me get this straight: You are challenging me, a person who is not a writer, to come up with an interesting, original story involving Bane and the League of Shadows. Then, when I am unsuccessful (which is inevitable, since I am, again, not a writer) you are going to use that as evidence that it is impossible for anyone, even talented professional writers, to come up with an interesting, original story involving Bane and the League of Shadows. Is that about right?


...

For someone who apparently isn't a writer, that sure is amazing fiction.

I'm asking you to give me an example of how Bane/Talia and the League can be used without trying to continue Ra's work in destroying the corrupt city of Gotham.

[aandfrugby25]

Wait, so let me get this straight: You are challenging me, a person who is not a writer, to come up with an interesting, original story involving Bane and the League of Shadows. Then, when I am unsuccessful (which is inevitable, since I am, again, not a writer) you are going to use that as evidence that it is impossible for anyone, even talented professional writers, to come up with an interesting, original story involving Bane and the League of Shadows. Is that about right?

Looks like you failed the test lol

[Bat-Mite]

Wait, so let me get this straight: You are challenging me, a person who is not a writer, to come up with an interesting, original story involving Bane and the League of Shadows. Then, when I am unsuccessful (which is inevitable, since I am, again, not a writer) you are going to use that as evidence that it is impossible for anyone, even talented professional writers, to come up with an interesting, original story involving Bane and the League of Shadows. Is that about right?You did say it could be "easily" done, and I don't think he's expecting you to type out a whole screenplay about it. People on here routinely write their ideas about where the story could/should go, and it only takes a few sentences or a couple of paragraphs at most. An example would be when someone recently said they thought Selina could break into Wayne Manor and prowl around until she discovers the batcave and gets the idea and equipment to become Catwoman.

[iamcitizen]

Looks like you failed the test lol

Yeah, I admit that I cannot come up with a original, interesting plot involving Bane and the League of Shadows. Seeing as I am not a writer, this is to be expected. Would you mind telling me exactly what you think that proves?

[iamcitizen]

You did say it could be "easily" done, and I don't think he's expecting you to type out a whole screenplay about it. People on here routinely write their ideas about where the story could/should go, and it only takes a few sentences or a couple of paragraphs at most. An example would be when someone recently said they thought Selina could break into Wayne Manor and prowl around until she discovers the batcave and gets the idea and equipment to become Catwoman.

Fine, so where I said "You could easily..." replace the word "you" with the word "Nolan".

[TheBatman072]

You did say it could be "easily" done, and I don't think he's expecting you to type out a whole screenplay about it. People on here routinely write their ideas about where the story could/should go, and it only takes a few sentences or a couple of paragraphs at most. An example would be when someone recently said they thought Selina could break into Wayne Manor and prowl around until she discovers the batcave and gets the idea and equipment to become Catwoman.

Exactly.

Yeah, I admit that I cannot come up with a original, interesting plot involving Bane and the League of Shadows. Seeing as I am not a writer, this is to be expected. Would you mind telling me exactly what you think that proves?

And how would I have known you weren't a writer?

And it doesn't take a writer to type a few ideas here and there.

In other words, "you're not using your imagination."

[iamcitizen]

And how would I have known you weren't a writer?

And it doesn't take a writer to type a few ideas here and there.

In other words, "you're not using your imagination."

Let me make this clear if I haven't already: I cannot think of a plot that involves the League of Shadows and isn't a rehash of Batman Begins. If you feel like that proves anything, good for you.

That said, both Begins and TDK involved the Falcone Crime Family, yet TDK wasn't a rehash of Begins. Certainly the League of Shadows offers more storytelling possibilities than the mob does?

[TheBatman072]

That said, both Begins and TDK involved the Falcone Crime Family, yet TDK wasn't a rehash of Begins. Certainly the League of Shadows offers more storytelling possibilities than the mob does?

Not comparable in the least.

[iamcitizen]

Not comparable in the least.

Why not? What's different?

[TheBatman072]

Why not? What's different?

The mob has an arc it can go through, we've been seeing that.

We've seen it at the height of its power in Begins.

We've seen Batman and Dent and even Joker deal major blows to it in both Begins and TDK.

We'll more than likely see the consequences of those major blows in TDKR, where the mob is currently with most of its higher ups either dead or in jail.

With the League, in this universe, they have two purposes. To follow an Al Ghul, and, in accordance with an Al Ghul's wishes, destroy corruption.

Gotham is still incredibly corrupt. If the League returns, their goal will inevitably to try and destroy is again. And possibly take revenge on Bruce(which was already done as well in Begins, but to a smaller, quicker scale).

Whether that includes Bane or Talia or both of them.

The League has no story arc other than to destroy Gotham/bring peace and justice and balance to the world.

[iamcitizen]

The mob has an arc it can go through, we've been seeing that.

We've seen it at the height of its power in Begins.

We've seen Batman and Dent and even Joker deal major blows to it in both Begins and TDK.

We'll more than likely see the consequences of those major blows in TDKR, where the mob is currently with most of its higher ups either dead or in jail.

With the League, in this universe, they have two purposes. To follow an Al Ghul, and, in accordance with an Al Ghul's wishes, destroy corruption.

Gotham is still incredibly corrupt. If the League returns, their goal will inevitably to try and destroy is again. And possibly take revenge on Bruce(which was already done as well in Begins, but to a smaller, quicker scale).

Whether that includes Bane or Talia or both of them.

The League has no story arc other than to destroy Gotham/bring peace and justice and balance to the world.

But with Ra's dead, who says the League has to have the same goals as it did in Begins? If Talia is in the movie, Nolan could make her more like the Ra's of the comics, who was a crazy environmentalist rather than a vigilante. So while Ra's wanted to destroy Gotham because he hates crime, Talia is even crazier, and wants to destroy humanity in order to save the earth.
Or how about this: Instead of escaping from the prison in Santa Prisca, Bane was rescued by Ra's like Bruce was in Begins. Maybe he and Ra's had a falling out, with Ra's seeking out Bruce as a replacement. After Ra's death, Bane returns and takes over the League and uses then as his personal army. (This makes sense because Bane probably won't do the "release the Arkham inmates" thing from Knightfall, since that was done in Begins)

I know these ideas suck, but you have to admit that it is at least possible that a good writer could put the League in the movie without it automatically being a rehash.

[TheBatman072]

But with Ra's dead, who says the League has to have the same goals as it did in Begins? If Talia is in the movie, Nolan could make her more like the Ra's of the comics, who was a crazy environmentalist rather than a vigilante. So while Ra's wanted to destroy Gotham because he hates crime, Talia is even crazier, and wants to destroy humanity in order to save the earth.

The same thing Ra's tried to do, but on a bigger scale.

And I sincerely doubt Nolan will have his Batman saving the entire planet.

That's more of a Superman thing.

Or how about this: Instead of escaping from the prison in Santa Prisca, Bane was rescued by Ra's like Bruce was in Begins. Maybe he and Ra's had a falling out, with Ra's seeking out Bruce as a replacement. After Ra's death, Bane returns and takes over the League and uses then as his personal army. (This makes sense because Bane probably won't do the "release the Arkham inmates" thing from Knightfall, since that was done in Begins)

The same thing Ra's did. The League was HIS personal army.

I know these ideas suck, but you have to admit that it is at least possible that a good writer could put the League in the movie without it automatically being a rehash.

No, not really.

[KRIM]

I know these ideas suck, but you have to admit that it is at least possible that a good writer could put the League in the movie without it automatically being a rehash.


No, not really.
I absolutely loathe the idea of Talia anywhere near this film, but stubbornness such as this is almost enough for me to wish Nolan would do it anyway.

[Yurka]

I could see Talia coming to Gotham to avenge her fathers death, and Bane as the leader of the league, comes to Gotham to hunt Batman because he's the only thing that stands in his/their way. Not necessarily the story I want, but it could be done I think.

[iamcitizen]

The same thing Ra's tried to do, but on a bigger scale.

No, it is the same thing Ra's tried to do on a massively bigger scale. Scale matters.


And I sincerely doubt Nolan will have his Batman saving the entire planet.


Why does everyone think they know what Nolan would do? His defining characteristic as a filmmaker is his unpredictability. Before TDK, people were adamant that Nolan would never have Batman operating outside the US and that Hong Kong would just double for parts of Gotham

And it's not like Batman doesn't save the entire planet on a semi-regular basis in the comics. Why are those comics not fair game to inspire the movie?


The same thing Ra's did. The League was HIS personal army.


But with a completely different goal. If the league shows up in Rises, there will be some similarities to Begins.


No, not really.

Haha, wow.

[Colonel Kurtz]

Well seeing how Nolan cast Rutger Hauer as a worthless character in BB, I doubt Marion Cotillard will be anyone of any importance. She'll play Bruce's french secretary at Wayne Enterprises.

[KRIM]

Are you joking? Marion is arguably the hottest foreign actress out in Hollywood right now. She's got great clout in the industry due to her recent success.

Rutger is a washed-up actor in comparison.

[Colonel Kurtz]

Are you joking? Marion is arguably the hottest foreign actress out in Hollywood right now. She's got great clout in the industry due to her recent success.

Rutger is a washed-up actor in comparison.

Nolan worships at the altar of Blade Runner. To call Rutger Hauer washed up is an insult to cinema. Roy Batty is almost exactly the same as Col. Kurtz. Are you saying Ridley Scott is also washed up?:facepalm:

I've found that Nolan likes to cast unintelligible people in his films. Ken Watanabe, while a good actor, cannot speak the english language to save his life. Marion Cottilard is of the same ilk.

[KRIM]

Nolan worships at the altar of Blade Runner. To call Rutger Hauer washed up is an insult to cinema. Roy Batty is almost exactly the same as Col. Kurtz. Are you saying Ridley Scott is also washed up?:facepalm:
I don't think you're understanding that Rutger's name has very little weight in Hollywood, regardless of famed projects he's been in. Marion has the buzz right now, which is something Rutger hasn't had in a long while. As for Ridley, he's consistently been in the limelight every few years, and already considered a legend. Comparing Rutger to Ridley is an insult to cinema.

I've found that Nolan likes to cast unintelligible people in his films. Ken Watanabe, while a good actor, cannot speak the english language to save his life. Marion Cottilard is of the same ilk.
Two actors out of the dozens he's worked with? Hardly a pattern. What's more likely is that these are 2 foreign actors who've stood out in an industry that's dominated by Americans and Brits, and thus have caught his eye.

[Colonel Kurtz]

I don't think you're understanding that Rutger's name has very little weight in Hollywood, regardless of famed projects he's been in. Marion has the buzz right now, which is something Rutger hasn't had in a long while. As for Ridley, he's consistently been in the limelight every few years, and already considered a legend. Comparing Rutger to Ridley is an insult to cinema.


Two actors out of the dozens he's worked with? Hardly a pattern. What's more likely is that these are 2 foreign actors who've stood out in an industry that's dominated by Americans and Brits, and thus have caught his eye.

So what if Marion has been in a few artsy french films people like. You're still not understanding my point. Everyone thinks Cottilard is either Talia or someone important from the funny books. This is a HUGE mistake. Nolan packs good actors, Rutger Hauer included, into any role. Albeit a large one, or even a small one ala Donner Superman.

Let's get some things straight, this chick is preggers. That's going to **** with her work schedule even after she pops junior out. That means limited days to shoot with Cottilard with a looming release date. Her role will be non-substantial. That is in no way connected to her talent as an actress. It simply means that it is highly unlikely she will have a large role in the movie as a main antagonist with a fleshed out story arc.

[KRIM]

I haven't assumed anything about her role. But if you're suggesting she's up for anything remotely related to Rutger's glorified cameo, that's a bit delusional. If it's a small part, I'd be more willing to bet it'd be along the lines of Inception. Nothing too major, but crucial to the plot or to the credibility of the supporting cast.

Nolan wouldn't ring her up at such a busy moment in her life to give her some lines an extra could read. C'mon.

[Colonel Kurtz]

I haven't assumed anything about her role. But if you're suggesting she's up for anything remotely related to Rutger's glorified cameo, that's a bit delusional. If it's a small part, I'd be more willing to bet it'd be along the lines of Inception. Nothing too major, but crucial to the plot or to the credibility of the supporting cast.

Nolan wouldn't ring her up at such a busy moment in her life to give her some lines an extra could read. C'mon.

Sure he would, because Nolan is a pretentious ****. He thinks he's on fire and he can do no wrong right now. That's extremely dangerous when making a movie, especially two massive tent pole blockbusters like Batman and Superman. We have no idea what Nolan is going to do. She could be portraying anyone. If she's even in the movie!

[Banana-Hotdog]

I gotta say, 90% of the discussion on this thread would have been more appropriate on the "Talia Al Ghul: Part 1" thread.

[aandfrugby25]

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff409/brandonvstheuniverse/final.jpg?t=1298017273

[Nave 'Torment']

^ :lmao: yes, by all means. Btw, is your sig a reference to PORTAL?

[BigEggo]

I gotta say, 90% of the discussion on this thread would have been more appropriate on the "Talia Al Ghul: Part 1" thread.

if it was there i wouldnt read it,talia is rubbish

[Nave 'Torment']

Hell, it could even be Sarah Essen. I could easily see any of them in either role really.

That's a role I really want to see in TDKR. If she's really Essen, it would certainly make me happy.

The mission of this movie based on Nolan's quotes is supposedly to resolve the plots of the last two movies, or "finish their story". That's TDK and Begins. Wally Pfister reinforced this in his interview where he mentioned how he had read the script and it made the viewing experience of Begins and TDK much more enjoyable as a contained trilogy. Take that as you will, but I know I'm taking from it that this film will be thoroughly connected to the last two pictures, and not doing what TDK did where it feels less like a sequel and more like another tale in a similar batman mythology. If it only followed up on TDK, then the problem is that it singles out Begins, and I know a lot of people here don't have a problem with that but maybe Nolan does considering TDK didn't follow up Begins enough in the first place for the story to feel full circle. You know, I think there's more creative ways to revisit things in Begins that were left up in the air in TDK than revisiting the League of Shadows (Bruce's parents, Falcone anyone?), but I digress.

Don't forget that the most common denominator in both films was Bruce Wayne's creation of the Batman persona. It's a Batman film. I can still see remnants of the mob struggling or devolving into a generation of 'freaks', with references to the Falcone Crime Family thrown in, but the central story will always be how Bruce Wayne and his symbol of fear works in Gotham City.

Batman and Catwoman vs Bane and Talia would be EPIC to see onscreen IMO! :woot:

A small part of me still believes that :D

I keep seeing the term 'loose ends' being used and I can't help but scratch my head. With the exception of the end of both films there's nothing about films one and two that's left unresolved. Nothing demands continuation or further exploration. Yes you could continue some elements, but you've got to ask what's the value of it.

Agreed. There are no 'loose ends', just potential of follow-ups.


Bane isn't interested in owning an army. Bane IS an army.

Nor is he interested in DESTROYING Gotham. Just the Bat.

I really don't want to get into why including Talia in this movie is an incredibly bad idea, but if you're interested, go read my posts in the beginnings of the new Tom Hardy is Bane thread.

Definitely, that's a more proper way to interpret the Bane character than anything else. I also agree with you - it's best not to get into too fervent a debate regarding Talia. There's a separate thread for that.

so...Talia but with Bane and/or Catwoman, and no League?

Don't do what you don't want to.

[Nave 'Torment']

What if... Cotillard (the title on the thread misspells her name guys) simply plays the traditional European Wayne Date? :P

I hope she's Essen, or Porter, but you can't say this isn't a possibility.

[jmc]

^ I suspect given the other actresses mentioned who are in talks the character is definitely going to be European, which I think eliminates any character in a law enforcement or governmental role. I'm still banking on an original character because there's not really any other character that fits the bill.

PS. I'm not one for posting in all caps but in this case I'll make an exception. MODS, PLEASE CHANGE MARION'S SURNAME IN THE TITLE TO THE CORRECT SPELLING!!!!

[Mr. Earle]

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff409/brandonvstheuniverse/final.jpg?t=1298017273:lmao::lmao::lmao: You sir are awesome!

[Avengers-Report]

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff409/brandonvstheuniverse/final.jpg?t=1298017273

MLAO :woot:

[BigEggo]

my laughing ass off?

[MiniBond]

edit

[RustyCage]

The mods aren't gonna go for that, MiniBond.

[Mr. Earle]

Take down the video. It has inappropriate language and you re gonna get an infraction.

[Mercurius]

What if... Cotillard (the title on the thread misspells her name guys) simply plays the traditional European Wayne Date? :P

I hope she's Essen, or Porter, but you can't say this isn't a possibility.

Essen would be a great choice. What a good idea, Nave.

[MiniBond]

Take down the video. It has inappropriate language and you re gonna get an infraction.
damn.... this is definitely the only site where I can't post stuff like that !:whatever::doh::dry:

[jmc]

Seriously, the language sensitivity is absurd on this site. Most swear words have lost their impact anyway, so who's exactly is getting offended?

[*Whiplash*]

Seriously, the language sensitivity is absurd on this site. Most swear words have lost their impact anyway, so who's exactly is getting offended?

Agreed.

It's all in jokey context too, it's not like people are directly swearing at each other.

[MiniBond]

Seriously, the language sensitivity is absurd on this site. Most swear words have lost their impact anyway, so who's exactly is getting offended?

I can do nothing else but agree....don't intend to start a debate (Im not a thread or a website manager ) but I gotta say I visit a lot of forums (both english and non english spoken) and SHH is the absolute only where I 'm under such a heavy burden to get banned or warned for such stuff (without me having bad thoughts about it btw)! I agree to not cross certain limits (totally nude pics and so on....) but this is exaggerated !


Doesn't really lower my liking for the Hype though !:woot:

[Nave 'Torment']

This is a news site, swearing is inevitable :p

[Nave 'Torment']

Essen would be a great choice. What a good idea, Nave.

Thanks, but can't say I'm the only one who's saying this.

[aandfrugby25]

What if... Cotillard (the title on the thread misspells her name guys) simply plays the traditional European Wayne Date? :P

I hope she's Essen, or Porter, but you can't say this isn't a possibility.

What???? How could you think that she would play such a small role. That is like saying "hey they got Anthony Michael Hall to be in the Movie but hes only gonna be a news reporter"......... oh wait

Also i agree with the language thing i got an infraction the other day for something I wholeheartedly do not believe was inappropriate to this forum. I just feel we can tone down the censoring a bit thats all.

Thanks for the comments about the cartoon BTW

[aandfrugby25]

^ :lmao: yes, by all means. Btw, is your sig a reference to PORTAL?

Yes it is possibly my favorite line. That or " i was going to invite all you friends but you have no friends because of how unlikeable you are". Thanks BTW

[Nave 'Torment']

^ haha, cool. I still can't get that song from out of my head. Like ever. Can't wait for the sequel :up:

[Dark Knight]

Doubtful.

Bane isn't interested in owning an army. Bane IS an army.

Nor is he interested in DESTROYING Gotham. Just the Bat.

I really don't want to get into why including Talia in this movie is an incredibly bad idea, but if you're interested, go read my posts in the beginnings of the new Tom Hardy is Bane thread.



How do you know that including Talia would be an "incredibly bad idea" to see onscreen? Do you have the script, story and narrative all laid out?

Enlighten me Nostradamus.

[kvz5]

Is it just me or was there a sudden dead silence from the news sites (THR, Deadline, etc.) about this?

Last week, that French newspaper reported that Marion has already signed on and then just this Monday it seems that People, THR and Deadline were all trying to beat each other with scoops about this - People claims (from their sources) that Marion signed on last Saturday, THR said her rep claims that they're just "in discussions" about the "scheduling issues" and then Deadline said they'll get "some clarity today". After Monday though there were zero follow-ups from any of these said "sources/reps".

Marion seems to be most locked though (pregnany issues aside) since Watts is doing the Hoover movie and Weisz is shooting a movie with Nicole Kidman over the summer. Not sure what Winslet is doing.

[Boom]

I think some of you guys are looking way too far into Deadline's comment.

[TheBatman072]

How do you know that including Talia would be an "incredibly bad idea" to see onscreen? Do you have the script, story and narrative all laid out?

Enlighten me Nostradamus.

No thanks. I've already done so in several other threads and honestly can't be bothered to do it again.

But I would like to know how YOU know that including Talia WOULD be a good idea?

Nostradamus.

[aandfrugby25]

No thanks. I've already done so in several other threads and honestly can't be bothered to do it again.

But I would like to know how YOU know that including Talia WOULD be a good idea?

Nostradamus.

Uhhhh hello do i need to post my cartoon again lol.

[ALP]

No thanks. I've already done so in several other threads and honestly can't be bothered to do it again.

But I would like to know how YOU know that including Talia WOULD be a good idea?

Nostradamus.

That is the hypocrisy that I always find most silly. One apparently has the right to believe tons of characters can be thrown into the film and it will work out perfect and everyone has the right to blindly believe it. Yet the moment you doubt anything you must prove every possible centimeter of evidence!

[iamcitizen]

That is the hypocrisy that I always find most silly. One apparently has the right to believe tons of characters can be thrown into the film and it will work out perfect and everyone has the right to blindly believe it. Yet the moment you doubt anything you must prove every possible centimeter of evidence!

That's not hypocrisy. Saying that it is impossible that Talia could work in this film is an assertion that requires a logical argument to back it up. Simply saying that that it is conceivably possible that Talia could maybe, possibly work in the hands of a talented writer, isn't a ridiculous assertion and doesn't require proof.

[ALP]

Except I'm not talking about those saying it's just "possible" it could work, rather anyone asserting it will be perfect and unquestionable.

Example, I've got no interest in seeing Talia in this film, Catwoman is good enough. Your turn.

[Two-Face]

I hope Marion Cottilard is Sarah Essen not Talia.

[Mercurius]

I hope Marion Cottilard is Sarah Essen not Talia.

That's what I hope, as well.

But I think Nolan loves symmetry: he is making the finale, I suppose he'll try to wrap all up and bring something from the first part.

[iamcitizen]

Except I'm not talking about those saying it's just "possible" it could work, rather anyone asserting it will be perfect and unquestionable.

I dare you to find a quote of someone saying that.


Example, I've got no interest in seeing Talia in this film, Catwoman is good enough. Your turn.

Ok. I enjoy the Batman comic books I have read that feature Talia. I would be interested in seeing Marion Cotillard play the role in the upcoming Batman motion picture.

[Doctor Jones]

I'd love to see essen. I think that character suits Nolan's sensibilities.

[ALP]

I hope Marion Cottilard is Sarah Essen not Talia.

:up::up:

I dare you to find a quote of someone saying that.

It's out there! This is the hype after all. I'm not searching 50 pages, you may feel free though to do so.

[Banana-Hotdog]

If the role IS Sarah Essen and Naomi Watts IS competing with Marion for it, then I honestly would rather see Watts.


Also, this cartoon was brilliant.

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff409/brandonvstheuniverse/final.jpg?t=1298017273

[Dark Knight]

No thanks. I've already done so in several other threads and honestly can't be bothered to do it again.

But I would like to know how YOU know that including Talia WOULD be a good idea?

Nostradamus.



Wait a second....did you extract from Nolans mind and pull a Cobb?

http://www.accidentalsexiness.com/wp-content/gallery/leo-dicaprio-inception-081909/33393pcn_leo01.jpg

[Dark Knight]

No thanks. I've already done so in several other threads and honestly can't be bothered to do it again.

But I would like to know how YOU know that including Talia WOULD be a good idea?

Nostradamus.



By the way, I never said it was a good idea.....but I never said it was a bad idea either.

Whatever Team Nolan wants to do, they will do. None of us can control that.

Enjoy the ride.

[Dark Jaguar]

No thanks. I've already done so in several other threads and honestly can't be bothered to do it again.

But I would like to know how YOU know that including Talia WOULD be a good idea?

Nostradamus.

I'd like a shot at that query...

Because Talia is the most likely alternative to Ra's Lazarus Pit, which would be rather far-fetched in Nolan's Bat-Verse. Instead of some supernatural revival, his daughter has taken over, and we can find out what really happened to Ra's, who was really behind all the stuff in TDK, and we can see how all that will come together to create the Batman we all know now (in the comics.)

Plus, the interest between her and Bruce could spur great tension and drama in a short amount of time between Bruce and Selina.

Mind you, I'm not assuming Cotilliard is going to be Talia. Nor that Hathaway will play Catwoman. I'm simply not going into those bits. I only know Hathaway will be Selina Kyle. Who, when not being "The Cat", was one of Bruce's romantic interests, and that's what I'm focusing on.
Because in Nolan's Bat-verse, not everyone will have costumes or super-powers. Because that's not "Realistic".

But, Talia's the best case for bringing together all the loose ends, and wrapping up the story neatly, to leave room for the imagination of what happens to The Batman later on in his legacy. :)

[namtaB]

Wait a second....did you extract from Nolans mind and pull a Cobb?

http://www.accidentalsexiness.com/wp-content/gallery/leo-dicaprio-inception-081909/33393pcn_leo01.jpg

I see that Mr. Nolan is a fan of the prodigious Apple computer.

Typed via my Macbook Air

[Saint]

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff409/brandonvstheuniverse/final.jpg?t=1298017273

The best.

[Nevincer]

I'd like a shot at that query...

Because Talia is the most likely alternative to Ra's Lazarus Pit, which would be rather far-fetched in Nolan's Bat-Verse. Instead of some supernatural revival, his daughter has taken over, and we can find out what really happened to Ra's, who was really behind all the stuff in TDK, and we can see how all that will come together to create the Batman we all know now (in the comics.)

If you're implying what I think you're implying, then that would be a terrible idea IMO. The Joker was responsible for the events of TDK, to suggest he had a superior would completely tarnish what they were driving home in the previous film. He was no pawn in a person's grand master plan, he had no motivation or gain, he was a self-serving agent of chaos.

Even if you're only suggesting that Talia let him off the leash, that's also inconsistent with the Al Ghul characterization. If anything, the Joker is the prime example of what Ra's wanted to eradicate with his extremism, or even better a criminal that would have gone beyond Ra's wildest nightmares to begin with (a "criminal that's complicated") and having Talia followup her father's work by naively using a greater evil to take down Batman is hard to swallow. It would also make her look ridiculous if she makes the same mistake with Bane too, which I'm guessing is the envisioned scenario if she's in this film.

[elgato]

No one ever thought...Pamela Isley?

[Nave 'Torment']

"You look great...especially for a DEAD WOMAN." Seriously guys, John Glover should make a cameo IN EVERY DC PRODUCTION.

[Doctor Who]

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff409/brandonvstheuniverse/final.jpg?t=1298017273

That's it; you win for the night.

[Doctor Who]

http://images.memegenerator.net/File/209530/LargeThumbnail.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/64507/1268915-janizporter_large.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/c/c9/Janiceporter.jpg

Well, it's good to say she looks terribly like Porter; I'm not sure if I'd put her in blonde hair, but still, nonetheless. Same gleaming eyes and precious lips. :hrt:

[LokiDionysos]

I'm still hoping she ends up playing Julie Madison... she's got the look down. Still holding out for the possibility of someday seeing Clayface onscreen :( even if he's just a master of disguise who uses face putty. JGL- As Basil Karlo FTW

[flickchick85]

Well, it's good to say she looks terribly like Porter; I'm not sure if I'd put her in blonde hair, but still, nonetheless.
She's done it before:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7154/mc00001.jpg


But I know nothing about Janice Porter so I can't really judge whether she'd be a good fit for that role or not.

[Doctor Who]

She's done it before:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7154/mc00001.jpg


But I know nothing about Janice Porter so I can't really judge whether she'd be a good fit for that role or not.

Read Long Halloween and Dark Victory; her appearance is in DV, pretty much taking over Dent's D.A. role. It can be easily translated and put into good character use if Nolan plots it just right. :word:

[Timstuff]

Why would Sarah Essen have a French accent? Why would a woman migrate from France to be a police officer in one of the most dangerous cities in the USA?

For Talia, on the other hand, it would be perfectly acceptable for her to have a French accent, and she could even disguise it a little to sound like something slightly more exotic. Either way, Talia is supposed to have a foreign accent. Cotillard has a foreign accent. Sarah Essen is blond and American, so why would they cast Cotillard as her? Especially when she's such an obvious choice for Talia?

[J.Howlett]

^This.

[insider1970]

Why would Sarah Essen have a French accent? Why would a woman migrate from France to be a police officer in one of the most dangerous cities in the USA?

For Talia, on the other hand, it would be perfectly acceptable for her to have a French accent, and she could even disguise it a little to sound like something slightly more exotic. Either way, Talia is supposed to have a foreign accent. Cotillard has a foreign accent. Sarah Essen is blond and American, so why would they cast Cotillard as her? Especially when she's such an obvious choice for Talia?

I have to agree with that. I think the role is about a foreign-born or with foreign roots character, whether comic book based or original (as Rachel). Up to now, all Marion's roles in American films have been for women with foreign roots obviously to justify her accent. I think that's actually the case with all foreign actresses or actors that have a career in Hollywood.

Well, I was thinking: On February 25th, the Cesar Awards ceremony will be held in Paris and "Inception" is nominated for Best Foreign Film. Maybe Marion will be present and be asked about this matter (although I don't hold my breath that she will reply :whatever:). Hopefully though, we will get official news till that day (crossing fingers).

[RoughNTumble]

The Long Halloween and Dark Victory are okay stories, but I don't understand why people seem to be obsessing over having characters like alberto and sofia falcone in, or janice porter. I'm just not really much of a jeph loeb fan I guess. Those characters seem like such a tiny almost meaningless part of the batman mythos, and there are characters more deserving of screen time.

[LokiDionysos]

Julie Madison FTW

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100611164156/marvel_dc/images/5/5a/Julie_Madison_DCAU_001.jpg http://media.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/71/6293/cached75.jpg

It would be interesting if Sarah Essen were in the movie too. Overall, I would like to see a non-villainess as Bruce's public love interest. While Selina, in Catwoman regalia forms the triangle as Batman's love interest. Forcing Bruce to choose between a normal relationship and being with someone more akin to him. If you throw Talia in there there's way too many ladies, too much of ol' Bruce to go around. That's the only reason I'm opposed to Talia being the second female lead, too much time for the story and then she will likely have some sort of relationship with Bruce. Then Bruce is choosing between two villains; even if Selina is portrayed as a Robin Hood type character there are still some moral disagreements between the two. And Naomi Watts as Sarah Essen might still work in this mix.

[TheFuture]

Why would Sarah Essen have a French accent? Why would a woman migrate from France to be a police officer in one of the most dangerous cities in the USA?


Ego? People are ambitious, and in the case of Porter maybe she has deluded herself into thinking that she has what it takes to clean up a city that is seen as a lost cause.

[jmc]

Why would Sarah Essen have a French accent? Why would a woman migrate from France to be a police officer in one of the most dangerous cities in the USA?



What's the big deal with someone taking a law enforcement job overseas or becoming a citizen? The person running my state at the moment is an American and the one who ran California for a few years was feakin' Schwarzenegger.

[BigEggo]

just rewatched inception.if TDKR is half as good as that,it will be about 3/4 as good as the dark knight,and therefore completely acceptable.and more to the point,cotillard could play any female in the batman canon and pull it off IMO.shes both terrifying and moving in that film at different points.

[raybia]

Why would Sarah Essen have a French accent? Why would a woman migrate from France to be a police officer in one of the most dangerous cities in the USA?

For Talia, on the other hand, it would be perfectly acceptable for her to have a French accent, and she could even disguise it a little to sound like something slightly more exotic. Either way, Talia is supposed to have a foreign accent. Cotillard has a foreign accent. Sarah Essen is blond and American, so why would they cast Cotillard as her? Especially when she's such an obvious choice for Talia?

Why is it assumed because this particular actress has an accent any character she plays will have the same aforementioned accent as well?

[lililatigresse]

Why is it assumed because this particular actress has an accent any character she plays will have the same aforementioned accent as well?

Marion Cotillard has a very noticeable french accent, you think the public are going to believe she's american? Even in Public Enemies, they had to change the story and make her half french.

[Nave 'Torment']

just rewatched inception.if TDKR is half as good as that,it will be about 3/4 as good as the dark knight,and therefore completely acceptable.and more to the point,cotillard could play any female in the batman canon and pull it off IMO.shes both terrifying and moving in that film at different points.

:up: :up: :up:

I know right??

Marion Cotillard has a very noticeable french accent, you think the public are going to believe she's american? Even in Public Enemies, they had to change the story and make her half french.

Well, one can always say that being an actress she can do well to veer away from it? Her accent in Inception wasn't particularly overwhelming. Not like it is in Public Enemies at least.

[Mister H.]

Why would Sarah Essen have a French accent? Why would a woman migrate from France to be a police officer in one of the most dangerous cities in the USA?

For Talia, on the other hand, it would be perfectly acceptable for her to have a French accent, and she could even disguise it a little to sound like something slightly more exotic. Either way, Talia is supposed to have a foreign accent. Cotillard has a foreign accent. Sarah Essen is blond and American, so why would they cast Cotillard as her? Especially when she's such an obvious choice for Talia?
I've been wondering that myself. I can't think of any character besides Talia that a French accent would really suit, unless its a new character not from the comics.

[lililatigresse]

:up: :up: :up:

I know right??



Well, one can always say that being an actress she can do well to veer away from it? Her accent in Inception wasn't particularly overwhelming. Not like it is in Public Enemies at least.

Marion is a great actress, but she's not a native english speaker. It's more difficult for her because she had to learn the language and pull out a perfect accent. It's almost impossible for a french to pass for an american like it's almost impossible for an american to pass for a french.
To all the english speaking actors/actresses I know, only Jodie Foster could almost pass for a french, but that's only because she has always been in french schools and despite this, she still has a little accent sometimes.

In my opinion, they want Marion for Talia or a new character (a foreign one). I think she would make a great Talia.

[Mercurius]

Why would Sarah Essen have a French accent? Why would a woman migrate from France to be a police officer in one of the most dangerous cities in the USA?

For Talia, on the other hand, it would be perfectly acceptable for her to have a French accent, and she could even disguise it a little to sound like something slightly more exotic. Either way, Talia is supposed to have a foreign accent. Cotillard has a foreign accent. Sarah Essen is blond and American, so why would they cast Cotillard as her? Especially when she's such an obvious choice for Talia?

Cotillard can speak with an Amurkun accent, as well, if needed.

Hugh Laurie kinda thing.

[Maze]

Yup.

i'm not sure that we should see the accent as a sign that Cotillard casting would be Talia or even some exotic character. I mean, assuming what the hollywood reporter said about the other actresses in the running for the same role is true, i don't see how Watts or Winslet would mean Talia or even an exotic character. Weiz maybe yes... that said, they are actresses of course, but still lot of actresses who don't really fit the bill at first glance.anyways, that would still indicate that the accent mean nothing.

[the amazing fro]

Cotillard can speak with an Amurkun accent, as well, if needed.

Hugh Laurie kinda thing.

Differences are:

1. Hugh Laurie is a natural English speaker

2. His accent is nowhere near as thick as Cotillard's and is easier to flatten.

[Paste Pot Pete]

I've been wondering that myself. I can't think of any character besides Talia that a French accent would really suit, unless its a new character not from the comics.

Sasha Bordeaux!

(I'm gonna keep banging this completely random drum because, damnit, everyone has a drum to bang and it's my turn!)

[iamcitizen]

Cotillard can speak with an Amurkun accent, as well, if needed.

Hugh Laurie kinda thing.

No she can't. If she she could speak with an American accent, she would have done it while playing the American-born, American-raised Billie Frechette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Frechette).

[Yurka]

Who wants Talia to have an American accent? I would much rather she use her natural accent as Talia.

[Van Petrol]

Talia's not going to be in it...there I said it.. :oldrazz:

[iamcitizen]

Who wants Talia to have an American accent? I would much rather she use her natural accent as Talia.

That's my point. I think she's playing Talia, or some other foreign born character.

I'm torn on Talia, actually, because while on one hand I think it would be cheesy for the previously-unseen offspring of a villain from the first movie to suddenly show up in the third (same reason I don't want to see Alberto), on the other hand, Talia is a character I like from the comics and Cotillard would be perfect for the role. So I don't know.

[lililatigresse]

Yup.

i'm not sure that we should see the accent as a sign that Cotillard casting would be Talia or even some exotic character. I mean, assuming what the hollywood reporter said about the other actresses in the running for the same role is true, i don't see how Watts or Winslet would mean Talia or even an exotic character. Weiz maybe yes... that said, they are actresses of course, but still lot of actresses who don't really fit the bill at first glance.anyways, that would still indicate that the accent mean nothing.

The thing with Talia is that they can make her american and cast an american actress, but they also can cast a french actress and make her half french, raised in France... Sarah Essen is american.
And by the way, neither Watts, Winslet or Weizs are american.

Nolan wants a white actress over 30, a really good actress (= probably for a important role) and she can have an accent. And with Bane + LoS previously appearing in Nolan's batman, yes, the first thing that comes to my mind is Talia. But I can be wrong.

[Maze]

Yup, i agree about the accent bit. but the point was especially, her accent mean nothing.

Now i don't see how in any ways american or not Watts, or Winslet indicate Talia.

[iamcitizen]

Yup, but the point was especially, her french accent mean nothing.

Except that she can't do an American accent. All the actresses Nolan is considering for this role have non-American accents, but not all of them can do American accents. So the character is almost certainly not an American.

Also, I could buy any of those actresses as Liam Neeson's daughter.

[Maze]

yup, let's say that Nolan wan't an accent, french, English whatever I don't see why she has to be Talia. She could even be an original character.

And Winslet Watts and Weisz can do american accents.

Watts as Neeson daughter? you buy it, ok i respect that. I don't see it.

Maybe the accent thing mean something and the character is from abroad yep..and maybe she is Talia (i don't buy it at all, she would need too much devellopement and bane and catwoman need it) or maybe Nolan doesn't care and just wan't a good actress.

[lililatigresse]

yup, let's say that Nolan wan't an accent, french, English whatever I don't see why because she can't do an american accent, she has to be Talia.

Winslet can do american accents.

Watts as Neeson daughter? you buy it, ok i respect that. I don't see it.

Maybe the accent thing mean something and the character is from abroad yep..and maybe she is Talia (i don't buy it at all, she would need too much devellopement and bane and catwoman need it) or maybe Nolan doesn't care and just wan't a good actress.

I don't think, she has to be Talia. I think there's a big chance they are casting for Talia because I think the character is important (they are looking for A list actresses, they all oscarized except Watts) + the character can be a foreigner + Bane is the villain.
To me it's a new character or Talia.

[Majik1387]

I'm telling you, Sofia Falcone. Cotillard, Watts, Weisz and Winslet would all be believable as Tom Wilkinson's(Carmine) daughter.

[jmc]

I don't think, she has to be Talia. I think there's a big chance they are casting for Talia because I think the character is important (they are looking for A list actresses, they all oscarized except Watts) + the character can be a foreigner + Bane is the villain.
To me it's a new character or Talia.

I suggest opening your mind a bit more. Foreigner does not automatically equal Talia, especially when the other people talked to are two Brits and an Aussie and are all close to or over 40 years old.

[lililatigresse]

I suggest opening your mind a bit more. Foreigner does not automatically equal Talia, especially when the other people talked to are two Brits and an Aussie and are all close to or over 40 years old.

lol I think you are the one who needs to open your mind a bit more. And I never said that a foreigner = Talia, I said that with a white important female character + foreigner + Bane being the villain the first thing that comes to my mind is Talia. I'm totally open to other characters unlike some people here.

And Nolan talked to Winslet, Watts and Weisz but he seems to really want Cotillard since even the fact that she's pregnant did not stop him. Maybe the fact that the other actresses are over 40 is a problem ?

[jmc]

^ Marion's no spring chicken herself.

[lililatigresse]

^ Marion's no spring chicken herself.

She's 35 and I think she definitely looks younger that Winslet (35), Watts (42) and Weisz (41).

[Maze]

Come on, do you really think Nolan did audition those three women to wake up one day and say, they are/look to old?

Maybe Cotillard was maybe just the one who gave the most convincing audition for Nolan. And/or he knows her already, it could be a plus.

Besides, Watts has a full shedule, Weisz could have another movie filming soon and Winselt has one potentially too.

to answer you from your earlier post. Cotillard could play a (big )supporting role, she did one in Inception. Maybe it was an issue for others actresses? ( now, Winslet 's reader character was seen as a supporting character )

even more, why have a second mysterious femme fatale when you have catwoman?

we'll see, and personnally i don't care, if Nolan chose Talia, so be it, but it just doesn't add up for me.

[raybia]

Marion Cotillard has a very noticeable french accent, you think the public are going to believe she's american? Even in Public Enemies, they had to change the story and make her half french.

Why would the public need to believe Taila is American?

Within the context of Nolan's Batman series, Taila could have been raised anywhere. If she was raised in China she would probably have a Chinese accent.

I really think its ridiculous even asinine for anyone to make an issue of Marion's accent.

I don't see Batman saying to Taila "Your not Ra's daughter, you have a French accent!"

Thank God its Nolan's choice and not any of us.

[raybia]

Except that she can't do an American accent. All the actresses Nolan is considering for this role have non-American accents, but not all of them can do American accents. So the character is almost certainly not an American.

Also, I could buy any of those actresses as Liam Neeson's daughter.

Yeah because Americans cannot have non-American accents. :whatever:

[lililatigresse]

Come on, do you really think Nolan did audition those three women to wake one day and say, they are/look to old?

Watts has a full shedule, Weisz could have another movie filming soon and Winselt has one potentially too.

Maybe Cotillard was also just the one who gave the most convincing audition for Nolan. And/or he knows her already, it could be a plus.

to answer you from your earlier post. she could play a (big )supporting role, she did one in Inception.

even more, why have a second mysterious femme fatale when you have catwoman?

we'll see, and personnally i don't care, if Nolan chose Talia, so be it, but it just doesn't add up for me.

No, what I really think is that Winslet wasn't interested, Watts could not do it and Nolan prefers Marion to Weisz.

I said "important character". Mal was supporting but important. Important = she won't be just an arm candy.

I think 2 femmes fatales can be too much (honestly, that's the only thing against Talia for me) but I don't know what's on Nolan's mind.

[lililatigresse]

Why would the public need to believe Taila is American?

Within the context of Nolan's Batman series, Taila could have been raised anywhere. If she was raised in China she would probably have a Chinese accent.

I really think its ridiculous even asinine for anyone to make an issue of Marion's accent.

I don't see Batman saying to Taila "Your not Ra's daughter, you have a French accent!"

Thank God its Nolan's choice and not any of us.

You should read my other posts because I actually agree with you.

[raybia]

You should read my other posts because I actually agree with you.

Will do.

[Doctor Jones]

I'm telling you, Sofia Falcone. Cotillard, Watts, Weisz and Winslet would all be believable as Tom Wilkinson's(Carmine) daughter.

Very true. I've never though of that.

I just don't know. Sophia is alot easier to manage in something like this. But i don't know if Nolan would opt for going back to the Falcone's. It's possible, but how likely I don't know.

[Boom]

"With Carmine Falcone behind bars, someone had to step up and run the so-called Family."

If Sophia and Alberto were in the picture, why didn't they step up? Why did Salvatore Maroni, a non-relative, take control of the Falcone Crime Family if Carmine had relatives in the business?

[jmc]

^ Case closed.

[iamcitizen]

yup, let's say that Nolan wan't an accent, french, English whatever I don't see why she has to be Talia. She could even be an original character.

Yeah, that's a possibility.


And Winslet Watts and Weisz can do american accents.


But Marion Cotillard can't. That's my point. Winslet Weisz and Watts can all do American accents, but Winslet Weisz Watts and Cotillard can't all do American accents. So the character they are up for probably doesn't have an American accent.


Watts as Neeson daughter? you buy it, ok i respect that. I don't see it.


She's a bit too old, maybe, but that's my only problem. And the other actresses all fit perfectly.

[Blader5489]

"With Carmine Falcone behind bars, someone had to step up and run the so-called Family."

If Sophia and Alberto were in the picture, why didn't they step up? Why did Salvatore Maroni, a non-relative, take control of the Falcone Crime Family if Carmine had relatives in the business?

Alberto was away, but returns to Gotham in DKR to take over the family.

See how easy that was? And that's just something I made up.

[jmc]

How convenient that all the suggestions for the likes of Talia and the Falcone kids appearing rest in them being absent and unmentioned from the previous films.

[iamcitizen]

Alberto was away, but returns to Gotham in DKR to take over the family.

See how easy that was? And that's just something I made up.

This is completely 100 percent my opinion, and I don't blame you for disagreeing, but I really hope we don't have another crime drama a la TDK. I loved TDK, but I hope TDKR is something bigger and more interesting than another cops-and-gangsters story with a few costumed freaks thrown in.

[Boom]

Alberto was away, but returns to Gotham in DKR to take over the family.

See how easy that was? And that's just something I made up.
I see. And why didn't he return in TDK when he father was indisposed? Why did he allow an outsider to come in and take what was his? Why come back now?

That's not how a crime family works. If Carmine had a son or daughter, I would have expected them to show up in TDK, when daddy was no longer in the picture. Even if they were out-of-state, the minute they heard about their father's incarceration, they would have returned - because it's a family business. They wouldn't let an outsider come in and take over their family.

And what are their followers going to think? Maroni was able to come in and take control of the Falcone Crime Family away from Carmine's own flesh and blood? That makes Alberto and Sophia look weak, powerless, and cowardly. Who would follow them? Who would respect them?

Sure, you came up with an explanation off the top of your head. Doesn't make it a good one. No offense.

[Maze]

But Marion Cotillard can't. That's my point. Winslet Weisz and Watts can all do American accents, but Winslet Weisz Watts and Cotillard can't all do American accents. So the character they are up for probably doesn't have an American accent.


Ok, sorry i still fail to see why, it's so relevant because Winslet was reportedly approached to play Mal in Inception, and i doubt that the idea was that she should be a foreign character, but you never know.

[flickchick85]

Marion Cotillard has a very noticeable french accent, you think the public are going to believe she's american? Even in Public Enemies, they had to change the story and make her half french.
For the record, they didn't change the character at all. She was playing a real person, and that real person WAS half-French. And she was raised on a Menominee Indian reservation in Wisconsin, where English likely wouldn't have been the first OR second language (Menominee is its own language, and French was also predominant there because that's the only culture of settlers that the Menominee mixed/traded with).

But I agree with the general sentiment that whoever Cotillard's playing, I doubt Nolan will have her putting on an American accent. As others have said, English is not her native language, so it's a VERY different scenario than Hugh Laurie, Kate Winslet, or other native English speakers speaking their native language with a different accent.

[lililatigresse]

For the record, they didn't change the character at all. She was playing a real person, and that real person WAS half-French. And she was raised on a Menominee Indian reservation, where English likely wouldn't have been the first OR second language (Menominee is its own language, and French was also predominant there because that's the only culture of settlers that the Menominee mixed/traded with).

Thanks. I did not know that, I thought Billie was just an american of french descent and was not supposed to have a french accent.

[Majik1387]

Very true. I've never though of that.

I just don't know. Sophia is alot easier to manage in something like this. But i don't know if Nolan would opt for going back to the Falcone's. It's possible, but how likely I don't know.
If all this Talia talk is possible with Ra's, it's just as possible if not more that Nolan would go back to Falcone first.
"With Carmine Falcone behind bars, someone had to step up and run the so-called Family."

If Sophia and Alberto were in the picture, why didn't they step up? Why did Salvatore Maroni, a non-relative, take control of the Falcone Crime Family if Carmine had relatives in the business?
Maroni had a mob of his own and felt that it was his time to take up the mantle because Falcone's kids weren't up to par yet(still possibly aren't).

Three mafia kids fighting for control for what remains of the Gotham mafia while freaks are taking over and Batman on the run sounds like a fun story to me.
^ Case closed.
Not at all.:o
How convenient that all the suggestions for the likes of Talia and the Falcone kids appearing rest in them being absent and unmentioned from the previous films.
Oh please, like characters like Harvey, Maroni, the other detectives, etc. had such ties to the first film? Spare me. :whatever:

[jmc]

I'm sorry but trying to bring the Falcone family back into the fold now smacks of nothing more than fan fiction. If you want to adapt the Alberto/Sophia thing to another part of the mob that's a different story.

[HandofDoom]

Hey all, long long time reader and finally have to jump into this discussion. Has anybody suggested Lady Shiva as a possibility? It makes sense within the story line, and she does bear a resemblance...

[iamcitizen]

Ok, sorry i still fail to see why, it's so relevant because Winslet was reportedly approached to play Mal in Inception, and i doubt that the idea was that she should be a foreign character, but you never know.

I don't know if the original intention was for Mal to be French, but obviously she wasn't intended to be an American or Cotillard wouldn't have been considered for the role in the first place. Nolan is fond of casting non-Americans as Americans, but so far all of them (Bale, Oldman, Ledger, Cillian Murphy, Colin Macfarlane, Tom Wilkinson and anybody else I am forgetting) have been able to do convincing American accents. Maybe Cotillard can do a convincing American accent, and has just never demonstrated that ability before, but I doubt it.

[Maze]

Or, that Mal was french ot not was irrelevant for Nolan, and he cast just an actress that he liked and who was avalaible

It sure is irrelevant in the screenplay imo.

but, anyways, we don't know the truth, we are speculating.

[iamcitizen]

Or, that Mal was french ot not was irrelevant for Nolan, and he cast just an actress that he liked and who was avalaible

It sure is irrelevant in the screenplay imo.


Mal was French in Inception. It doesn't matter if that was Nolan's original intent- she was French because Cotillard played the role with an unmistakable French accent.

[raybia]

I see. And why didn't he return in TDK when he father was indisposed? Why did he allow an outsider to come in and take what was his? Why come back now?

That's not how a crime family works. If Carmine had a son or daughter, I would have expected them to show up in TDK, when daddy was no longer in the picture. Even if they were out-of-state, the minute they heard about their father's incarceration, they would have returned - because it's a family business. They wouldn't let an outsider come in and take over their family.

And what are their followers going to think? Maroni was able to come in and take control of the Falcone Crime Family away from Carmine's own flesh and blood? That makes Alberto and Sophia look weak, powerless, and cowardly. Who would follow them? Who would respect them?

Sure, you came up with an explanation off the top of your head. Doesn't make it a good one. No offense.

If Alberto does appear in this movie we don't know the circumstance about his whereabouts. Who is to say that he didn't visit his father after the events of BB, who is actually in Arkhum. As far as why Maroni was allowed to take over. Well they probably didn't have any choice. In TLH Maroni is the 2nd most powerful mobster in Gotham so with Falcone out of the way the Falcone crime family was weaken enough for that to take place.

In the Godfather a hit was placed on Vito Corleone and if successful, would have allowed the Tattaglia crime family to get access to Vito's political contracts and entry into the drug market making them much more powerful with the Corleone crime family possibility falling under their jurisdiction.

In the actually Mafia, The mafia commission deals with matters of succession. When a boss dies or retires, his clan's reputation often crumbles with his departure. This can cause clients to abandon the clan and turn to neighboring clans for protection. These clans would grow greatly in status and power relative to their rivals, potentially destabilizing the region and precipitating war. The commission may choose to divide up the clan's territory and members among its neighbors. Alternatively, the commission has the power to appoint a regent for the clan until it can elect a new boss.

[raybia]

Mal was French in Inception. It doesn't matter if that was Nolan's original intent- she was French because Cotillard played the role with an unmistakable French accent.

Not all people with a French accent are French though. And certainly Mal's ethnicity was irrelevant and I strongly suspect so will Taila's if she appears in TDKR.

[Alonsovich]

I don't see Batman saying to Taila "Your not Ra's daughter, you have a French accent!"

Pssst... he was also Henri Ducard...:o

[raybia]

Pssst... he was also Henri Ducard...:o

:doh: Good point!

[Miranda Fox]

Pssst... he was also Henri Ducard...:o

If we go with the 'Ra's is a name passed from person to person' then Ducard may well have been his real name and not just an alias. Either way, I don't see the issue. Ra's never said where he and his wife were from, so why couldn't his daughter be French.

BTW, I'm pretty sure Mal was supposed French - isn't Mal short for Mallorie (I know it also means bad, but I'm sure that somewhere)?

[raybia]

If we go with the 'Ra's is a name passed from person to person' then Ducard may well have been his real name and not just an alias. Either way, I don't see the issue. Ra's never said where he and his wife were from, so why couldn't his daughter be French.

BTW, I'm pretty sure Mal was supposed French - isn't Mal short for Mallorie (I know it also means bad, but I'm sure that somewhere)?

I think it was short for Malcolm. :cwink:

[Alonsovich]

If we go with the 'Ra's is a name passed from person to person' then Ducard may well have been his real name and not just an alias. Either way, I don't see the issue. Ra's never said where he and his wife were from, so why couldn't his daughter be French.

BTW, I'm pretty sure Mal was supposed French - isn't Mal short for Mallorie (I know it also means bad, but I'm sure that somewhere)?

Exactly my point. Ducard could have been very well his real name and Ra's just a title that is carried on by the head of the LOS ("Head of the Demon"). Considering Henri Ducard is a blatantly french name, I don't see why Marion having a french accent would collide with a character that's supposed to be Ducard/Ra's daughter...

[Maze]

yes it was but:

Sfortuna is one Italian equivalent of 'Mallory'. The last name in English comes from 'malheur', which is French for 'misfortune'.

And, Ariadne is a greek name, and we can all pretty much agree that the Ellen Page character is not greek. Nolan was going for symbolic name nothing more imo.

[flickchick85]

Not all people with a French accent are French though.
True. My mother is a Texan who had an English accent for years because she went to grade school in England.

But unless that's an actual plot-point, I'd say casting someone with a French accent who you don't have changing her accent to play someone who's not supposed to be from France...would be called "miscasting." Obviously it's possible that she changes her accent, but if she doesn't, which I think is more likely, I think it's safe to say she'll be playing someone who at least grew up in France.

Talia seems possible because A.) Henri Ducard seems French, and B.) We know nothing about where he and his family lived. But it could also be any international character with vague origins.

[Nevincer]

If we go with the 'Ra's is a name passed from person to person' then Ducard may well have been his real name and not just an alias. Either way, I don't see the issue. Ra's never said where he and his wife were from, so why couldn't his daughter be French.

BTW, I'm pretty sure Mal was supposed French - isn't Mal short for Mallorie (I know it also means bad, but I'm sure that somewhere)?
Personally I perscribe to the belief that the Ra's title does get passed down depending on the generation, but he also has decoys as well (illustrated in the party scene of Batman Begins) and Henri Ducard was most certainly Ra's Al Ghul for the duration of the movie (not Ken Watanabe).

I therefore don't believe Ra's Al Ghul was Liam Neeson's characters real name, whether it was really Ducard though is still a question in my mind. I'd like to say that's just another alias, because if he really was Henri Ducard then that would mean that the Ra's from the comics wasn't arguably adapted in the movie, and was just a device used by other supporting characters that were adapted. He may have been unfaithful to begin with but so was the Joker, and I'd at least like to think he's not to Ra's Al Ghul what Patience Philips was to Catwoman in the 04 movie, if that makes any sense. Whilst he has some obvious arabic ties, I believe his ethnicity and background were left ambigious.

But on Ra's being a title (though I'd still say Neeson was the character and not the others), IMO it has to be due to Nolan's realism. There's no way Liam Neeson for example could have "sacked constantinople and rome, loaded trade ships with plague rats, and burnt london to the ground". It also seems strange to me that someone with the literal name "Head of the Demon" would be a recruit, not the founder of the organization, unless it was a title.

And about Mal's full name in Inception, I think that was the case.

[iamcitizen]

Not all people with a French accent are French though. And certainly Mal's ethnicity was irrelevant and I strongly suspect so will Taila's if she appears in TDKR.

Wow, you folks are really misinterpreting me. I'm saying that Cotillard's accent is a reason why I think she IS playing Talia.

[Majik1387]

If Alberto does appear in this movie we don't know the circumstance about his whereabouts. Who is to say that he didn't visit his father after the events of BB, who is actually in Arkhum. As far as why Maroni was allowed to take over. Well they probably didn't have any choice. In TLH Maroni is the 2nd most powerful mobster in Gotham so with Falcone out of the way the Falcone crime family was weaken enough for that to take place.

In the Godfather a hit was placed on Vito Corleone and if successful, would have allowed the Tattaglia crime family to get access to Vito's political contracts and entry into the drug market making them much more powerful with the Corleone crime family possibility falling under their jurisdiction.

In the actually Mafia, The mafia commission deals with matters of succession. When a boss dies or retires, his clan's reputation often crumbles with his departure. This can cause clients to abandon the clan and turn to neighboring clans for protection. These clans would grow greatly in status and power relative to their rivals, potentially destabilizing the region and precipitating war. The commission may choose to divide up the clan's territory and members among its neighbors. Alternatively, the commission has the power to appoint a regent for the clan until it can elect a new boss.
Thank you.

[Boom]

I thought Nolan chose the name Mal because it means "bad" or "evil."

[raybia]

True. My mother is a Texan who had an English accent for years because she went to grade school in England.

But unless that's an actual plot-point, I'd say casting someone with a French accent who you don't have changing her accent to play someone who's not supposed to be from France...would be called "miscasting." Obviously it's possible that she changes her accent, but if she doesn't, which I think is more likely, I think it's safe to say she'll be playing someone who at least grew up in France.

I don't see how you can say the role of Mal was miscast. What was wrong with her having a French accent? Or maybe the problem was she has a non American accent for all people have one. Thats a very Americentric view even though I am an American.

[Nevincer]

Ok, sorry i still fail to see why, it's so relevant because Winslet was reportedly approached to play Mal in Inception, and i doubt that the idea was that she should be a foreign character, but you never know.
Winslet? That would have been a strange choice if Leo was cast too. I doubt I'd be able to avoid the comparison to Titanic :oldrazz:

[raybia]

Thank you.

You are welcome. :up:

[raybia]

Wow, you folks are really misinterpreting me. I'm saying that Cotillard's accent is a reason why I think she IS playing Talia.

I would hope its more than just because of an accent. She is also an Academy award winning actress.

[iamcitizen]

I would hope its more than just because of an accent. She is also an Academy award winning actress.

That's not what I meant. How can I make this more clear? I don't think she got cast because of her accent. Her accent is just a clue that indicates which character she might be playing. If not for the accent, I would be less sure she was playing Talia.

[Laderlappen]

That's not what I meant. How can I make this more clear? I don't think she got cast because of her accent. Her accent is just a clue that indicates which character she might be playing. If not for the accent, I would be less sure she was playing Talia.So the less you sound like Liam Neeson, the higher your chance is to play Talia?

[raybia]

That's not what I meant. How can I make this more clear? I don't think she got cast because of her accent. Her accent is just a clue that indicates which character she might be playing. If not for the accent, I would be less sure she was playing Talia.

I understand you now. Thanks for clearing that up. You could be right. Time will tell.

[flickchick85]

I don't see how you can say the role of Mal was miscast. What was wrong with her having a French accent? Or maybe the problem was she has a non American accent for all people have one. Thats a very Americentric view even though I am an American.
Whoa, I didn't say that at all, and I certainly don't feel that way. I thought she was perfectly cast as Mal, and Mal was supposed to be French.

I was saying that if she doesn't change her accent for TDKR, and is not playing a character who was at least raised in France, then that would be miscasting. In other words, I was pointing out how unlikely it sounds that she'd be playing an American in this film, and that a more "international" character of vague origins seems more likely to me. Be it Talia, Lady Shiva (but isn't she Asian? I know next to nothing about her), or whoever.

[raybia]

Whoa, I didn't say that at all, and I certainly don't feel that way. I thought she was perfectly cast as Mal, and Mal was supposed to be French.

I was saying that if she doesn't change her accent for TDKR, and is not playing a character who was at least raised in France, then that would be miscasting. In other words, I was pointing out how unlikely it sounds that she'd be playing an American in this film, and that a more "international" character of vague origins seems more likely to me. Be it Talia, Lady Shiva (but isn't she Asian? I know next to nothing about her), or whoever.

Ok. I misunderstood however I don't necessarily agree that if she plays Talia with a French accent that it has to be explained in the script.

[iamcitizen]

Ok. I misunderstood however I don't necessarily agree that if she plays Talia with a French accent that it has to be explained in the script.

I think Ra's being "Henri Ducard" is explanation enough.

[raybia]

I think Ra's being "Henri Ducard" is explanation enough.

Agreed

[flickchick85]

I agree as well. My whole point in that post was that Talia is one of the "easiest" roles to fit her into for that reason. I'm not saying that's who I'd rather see, though, because it's not.

And I'm also not saying she's wrong for Sofia or Sarah Essen or whoever - I'm just saying they're gonna have to explain the French-ness in those cases if she doesn't lose the accent. With Talia, Lady Shiva, or some other international/exotic character, they wouldn't.

[raybia]

I agree as well. My whole point in that post was that Talia is one of the "easiest" roles to fit her into for that reason. I'm not saying that's who I'd rather see, though, because it's not.

And I'm also not saying she's wrong for Sofia or Sarah Essen or whoever - I'm just saying they're gonna have to explain the French-ness in those cases if she doesn't lose the accent. With Talia, Lady Shiva, or some other international/exotic character, they wouldn't.

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe, but for example how many movies have Schwarzenegger made where his accent wasn't explained?

[Paste Pot Pete]

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe, but for example how many movies have Schwarzenegger made where his accent wasn't explained?

Kinda proving the point, though. That always came off as really silly, Schwarzenegger playing a guy named Barry Smith or something.

[raybia]

Kinda proving the point, though. That always came off as really silly, Schwarzenegger playing a guy named Barry Smith or something.

Have to disagree. It didn't come across silly in the movies that were well made with great direction and a solid script like Terminator, T2 and True Lies. Also Eraser and Predator.

[flickchick85]

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe, but for example how many movies have Schwarzenegger made where his accent wasn't explained?
And how many Schwarzenegger movies weren't a "turn your brain off" kind of affair? That's just how Hollywood rolled with that guy. Look, I'm not suggesting we need a bio of her character to explain her origins. I'm just saying we need something like we got in Inception - the Paris connection, the French grandmother. Nothing major. But if Sarah Essen's a French chick, it's not too much to ask for a small implication as to what brought her to Gotham. And if she's Sofia Falcone, since we've witnessed no prior international connections in the Falcone family, a little throw-away line about her formerly studying abroad, or being raised by her mother or something, wouldn't be an issue or clunky exposition. That's all I'm saying.

EDIT: In T2 and True Lies, the implications I'm suggesting WERE there: He was a robot from the future, and he was an international spy. Those alone justify him having unknown origins and sounding different. And True Lies was kind of purposely ridiculous anyway, so it didn't really matter there. But those kind of implications are all Cotillard would need.

[Paste Pot Pete]

It didn't come across silly in the movies that were well made like Terminator, T2 and True Lies.

He was a robot in Terminator. How does nationality factor into being a robot?

True Lies was a comedy, and definitely had that suspension of disbelief angle. Any of Schwarzenegger's films in which we (or in this case, his onscreen family) are meant to buy for one second that he's an average joe.

[Laderlappen]

I think when they explain things like that that doesnt really have anything to do with the plot, it becomes a flaw. It doesnt matter why a character speaks with an accent. its not important. It is one of those things that doesnt need to be explained.

[flickchick85]

I think when they explain things like that that doesnt really have anything to do with the plot, it becomes a flaw. It doesnt matter why a character speaks with an accent. its not important. It is one of those things that doesnt need to be explained.
Again, "explain" is not what I'm suggesting. At least, not verbally. Nolan "explained" it Inception, yet there was no "flaw" or clunky exposition about it. That's all I'm saying they'd need to do.

And it doesn't matter if they speak with an accent if their origins are unclear. But Sofia Falcone, whose father we've already met (and seemed to have been ingrained in Gotham all his life)? Yeah, there's gonna need to be some implications about the accent on that one.

[raybia]

He was a robot in Terminator. How does nationality factor into being a robot?

True Lies was a comedy, and definitely had that suspension of disbelief angle. Any of Schwarzenegger's films in which we (or in this case, his onscreen family) are meant to buy for one second that he's an average joe.

Nationally doesn't factor yet here is a robot with an accent. Did affect the story or the have the audience or critics questioning this accent? No it didn't because the performance and story overcame it.

As far was using suspension of disbelief as an accuse, this is a movie about a man who fights crime dressed as a bat and the ridiculous villains that he fights against.

This entire genre demands "suspension of disbelief" so I think the audience would have a difficult time extending that to Marion Cottilard's accent if she plays a character other than Taila. If so then then need to check out and go see the King's Speech playing down the hall.

[flickchick85]

Nationally doesn't factor yet here is a robot with an accent. Did affect the story or the have the audience or critics questioning this accent? No it didn't because the performance and story overcame it.

As far was using suspension of disbelief as an accuse, this is a movie about a man who fights crime dressed as a bat and the ridiculous villains that he fights against.

This entire genre demands "suspension of disbelief" so I think the audience would have a difficult time extending that to Marion Cottilard's accent if she plays a character other than Taila. If so then then need to check out and go see the King's Speech playing down the hall.
I guess we'll just have to see then. If we get a French-accented Sarah Essen or Sofia Falcone with absolutely ZERO references as to where she came from/why she might have that accent, I will come back here and happily eat crow (hopefully right after gushing about the kick-ass movie I just watched). :yay:

[Paste Pot Pete]

We're obviously not going to agree on this. A Gotham cop named Sarah Essen or the daughter of an Italian mob boss named Sofia Falcone speaking with a French accent is going to raise my eyebrow. Oh well.

[Laderlappen]

Again, "explain" is not what I'm suggesting. At least, not verbally. Nolan "explained" it Inception, yet there was no "flaw" or clunky exposition about it. That's all I'm saying they'd need to do.

And it doesn't matter if they speak with an accent if their origins are unclear. But Sofia Falcone, whose father we've already met (and seemed to have been ingrained in Gotham all his life)? Yeah, there's gonna need to be some implications about the accent on that one.Yes when a daughter and a father speaks with different accents it needs explained. I do agree with that. Most often then it is miscasting.

[raybia]

I think when they explain things like that that doesnt really have anything to do with the plot, it becomes a flaw. It doesnt matter why a character speaks with an accent. its not important. It is one of those things that doesnt need to be explained.

Again, "explain" is not what I'm suggesting. At least, not verbally. Nolan "explained" it Inception, yet there was no "flaw" or clunky exposition about it. That's all I'm saying they'd need to do.

And it doesn't matter if they speak with an accent if their origins are unclear. But Sofia Falcone, whose father we've already met (and seemed to have been ingrained in Gotham all his life)? Yeah, there's gonna need to be some implications about the accent on that one.

Flickchick, I understand what you are saying but I lean more towards what Laderlappen is saying. Plus I know for fact that Hollywood movie history is full of countless of examples of actors and actresses with accents they brought to their characters that were not explained or somehow justified to the audience. Why? Because just like real life, its not always relevant.

[raybia]

I guess we'll just have to see then. If we get a French-accented Sarah Essen or Sofia Falcone with absolutely ZERO references as to where she came from/why she might have that accent, I will come back here and happily eat crow (hopefully right after gushing about the kick-ass movie I just watched). :yay:

We're obviously not going to agree on this. A Gotham cop named Sarah Essen or the daughter of an Italian mob boss named Sofia Falcone speaking with a French accent is going to raise my eyebrow. Oh well.

I don't think this is a right or wrong issue. I know both approaches have been done in cinema both with successful results. It will come down to Nolan and whether he feels the need to explain her accent.

Iam also assuming that Marion doesn't have the ability to lose her accent.

Nice discussion guys! :yay:

By the way, I really don't think Taila is going to be in this movie. I think Marion will be Sofia Falcone.

[flickchick85]

Flickchick, I understand what you are saying but I lean more towards what Laderlappen is saying.
Fair enough.

Plus I know for fact that Hollywood movie history is full of countless of examples of actors and actresses with accents they brought to their characters that were not explained or somehow justified to the audience. Why? Because just like real life, its not always relevant.But in most of those cases (in which it wasn't weird), they at least had a name to go along with the accent, though. If a character comes in with a French accent, we assume they are French (and they'd typically have at least an exotic, if not actually French, name). No explanation needed. "Sarah Essen," high-ranking official on the Gotham police force (meaning she's been there a while)? I just can't see that played with a French accent without SOME kind of reference to where she came from (for example, if they mentioned that she's a new transfer to the GPD, that's enough).

But again, we'll see. For all we know, this could be totally irrelevant and she ends up playing an invented character tailored to the actress as jmc's predicting. Speculating is fun, though. :D

[Yurka]

I could care less as to whether or not her accent changes (if she's Talia). She will sound foreign and thats all I care about.

[flickchick85]

I could care less as to whether or not her accent changes (if she's Talia). She will sound foreign and thats all I care about.
I don't think anyone's concerned about Talia having an accent.

[Alonsovich]

Hey all, long long time reader and finally have to jump into this discussion. Has anybody suggested Lady Shiva as a possibility? It makes sense within the story line, and she does bear a resemblance...

^This...

Lady Shiva is a possibility:

After Bane breaks Batman's back, Batman seeks training from Shiva to help him regain his skills and fighting spirit. Though she deems him unworthy of her efforts, she devises a training regimen, out of respect for what he had been before his injuries. As part of this training, Shiva kills the Armless Master, a sensei notable for training Catwoman, while wearing a tengu mask, making sure that his death was both witnessed and relayed to his best students. Shiva then makes Batman wear the mask while performing training missions. He is then ambushed by the master’s students, who mistake him for the "Tengu Mask warrior." He defeats all of them in turn, but Shiva attempts to complete Batman’s training by manipulating him into killing an opponent using her fatal Leopard Blow. Batman simply feigns using the maneuver on an assailant to trick her into believing he used lethal force. Shiva later discovers the truth, but does not seek vengeance.

Later, she helps Batman fight Ra's al Ghul and his League of Assassins, including Bane, when Ghul attempts to release a deadly virus called Ebola Gulf A that would have killed half the world's population (see Batman: Legacy). The trail leads Batman to Calcutta, India. Since their knowledge of the city is limited, Oracle contacts Shiva, who agrees to help Batman. Together they defeat Ghul's men and prevent the virus from being released.

That has Catwoman, Bane in it... plus one of the supposed shooting locations. Shiva would make more sense than Talia if they're going the route of the Knightfall/Legacy mixed elements...

[raybia]

I would be extremely surprised and disappointed in Nolan if a non-Asian actress was cast as Lady Shiva.

[Yurka]

I don't think anyone's concerned about Talia having an accent.

Ah. Last I heard she was in negotiations for Talia, I was unsure why people were speculating about her accent for a different character.

[raybia]

Ah. Last I heard she was in negotiations for Talia, I was unsure why people were speculating about her accent for a different character.

Because at this point what character she will play seems to be speculation.

[Paste Pot Pete]

The main sticking point for me, if these reports are true, is Naomi Watts.

She sticks out as a VERY VERY unlikely choice for Talia. Even if the others are more suited for Talia (Marion, Winslet, MAYBE Weisz even though she's really way too old), the inclusion of Watts in the same group implies to me that the character being cast is not Talia.

[raybia]

The main sticking point for me, if these reports are true, is Naomi Watts.

She sticks out as a VERY VERY unlikely choice for Talia. Even if the others are more suited for Talia (Marion, Winslet, MAYBE Weisz even though she's really way too old), the inclusion of Watts in the same group implies to me that the character being cast is not Talia.

She screams Sarah Essen to me.

[flickchick85]

I would be extremely surprised and disappointed in Nolan if a non-Asian actress was cast as Lady Shiva.
This actually could support jmc's "invented character" theory, in a way. Kinda like how Nolan changed Montoya to Ramirez since she turned out to be corrupt and didn't want to ruffle feathers, maybe he's doing the same with Lady Shiva since he wanted Cotillard/Winslet/Weisz/Watts and they're the wrong ethnicity. Then again, he did sort of "white wash" Ra's Al Ghul, so I guess that's a possibility, too.

I dunno, I know nothing about Lady Shiva as I've said before, but based on the blurb Alonsovich posted, she (or a character like her) sounds like a possibility. Not one that I'm particularly rooting for (not sure I'd want to see Bruce travel the globe for training if he gets his back broken), but a possibility nonetheless.

[Paste Pot Pete]

She screams Sarah Essen to me.

She's a dead ringer, for sure.

This is a group of actresses being picked for a more mature role. They're all within 35 to 42 and they all embody that old soul feel. And I'm not entirely convinced it's for a "love interest" for Bruce at all.

I think wires get crossed and assumptions get made, and any major actress joining a Batman cast is immediately assumed to be a love interest.

It may very well prove to be Essen. I don't see Nolan going with the Gordon affair angle (I just don't think there's enough time to focus on Gordon's love life in the final chapter of Bruce's story), but I do think Gordon is going to need someone to talk to/work with now that there's no Flass, no Loeb, no Rachel, no Dent, etc.

[iamcitizen]

It may very well prove to be Essen. I don't see Nolan going with the Gordon affair angle (I just don't think there's enough time to focus on Gordon's love life in the final chapter of Bruce's story), but I do think Gordon is going to need someone to talk to/work with now that there's no Flass, no Loeb, no Rachel, no Dent, etc.

Cotillard is even more wrong for Essen than Watts is for Talia.

[Seen]

How reliable is this?

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Marion-Cotillard-Batman-1029461.aspx

[kvz5]

It would be hilarious (yet frustrating) if in the press release they say something like:

"Marion Cotillard (or whoever is chosen) will play *insert some random female name not in the comics*. She will play an integral part in ending our trilogy."

[TheBatman072]

Cotillard is even more wrong for Essen than Watts is for Talia.

Not really.

http://www.gala.fr/var/gal/storage/images/media/images/photos_lifestyle/photos_beaute/astuces_de_stars/marion_cotillard2/marion_en_blonde/524952-1-fre-FR/marion_en_blonde_reference.jpg

[kvz5]

How reliable is this?

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Marion-Cotillard-Batman-1029461.aspx

They cited People as their source so it's nothing new. :(

[iamcitizen]

Not really.

They could make Watts a brunette just as easily and making Cotillard a blonde, and Watts could do an appropriate accent.

[Paste Pot Pete]

They could make Watts a brunette just as easily and making Cotillard a blonde, and Watts could do an appropriate accent.

Except Watts looks more like Liam Neeson's sister than his daughter. No offense, I think Naomi Watts is hot as hell, but she's way too old for Talia.

[iamcitizen]

Except Watts looks more like Liam Neeson's sister than his daughter. No offense, I think Naomi Watts is hot as hell, but she's way too old for Talia.

I agree. And I don't think Watts will be playing Talia. I think Marion Cotillard will.

[Yurka]

Is Watts actually being considered or is it just rumored?

[kvz5]

Is Watts actually being considered or is it just rumored?

She was on the list of actresses that Nolan apparently talked and read with.

[iamcitizen]

Is Watts actually being considered or is it just rumored?

It's all rumor at this point. But Hollywood Reporter, uh, reported that Cotillard had beat out Naomi Watts, Rachel Weisz and Kate Winslet for a role.

[TheBatman072]

I think that Talia isn't even IN the movie.

[raybia]

I think that Talia isn't even IN the movie.

:up::up:

[jmc]

I agree. And I don't think Watts will be playing Talia. I think Marion Cotillard will.

Take into account the other actress being mentioned. Of the four of them only Marion and maybe Rachel are suited to play Talia, Winslet and Watts aren't. The one thing these women have in common is that they are mature, that's a pretty big red flag right there against Talia given Neeson is only about 12-15 years older than some of them (and hardly looks it I might add). Compare that to Catwoman's casting where you had Hathaway, Biel and Knightly, all three girls fit the same mold. There are so many things going against which ever this character is being Talia.

[Yurka]

It's all rumor at this point. But Hollywood Reporter, uh, reported that Cotillard had beat out Naomi Watts, Rachel Weisz and Kate Winslet for a role.

She was on the list of actresses that Nolan apparently talked and read with.

Ah, Thanks :up:

[jmc]

This actually could support jmc's ''invented character'' theory, in a way. Kinda like how Nolan changed Montoya to Ramirez since she turned out to be corrupt and didn't want to ruffle feathers, maybe he's doing the same with Lady Shiva since he wanted Cotillard/Winslet/Weisz/Watts and they're the wrong ethnicity. Then again, he did sort of ''white wash'' Ra's Al Ghul, so I guess that's a possibility, too.



I think an original character is the most likely outcome, or an amalgamation of several characters.

[TheScarecrow]

It's all rumor at this point. But Hollywood Reporter, uh, reported that Cotillard had beat out Naomi Watts, Rachel Weisz and Kate Winslet for a role.

No, they said that Cotillard was in discussions and that Nolan had been meeting with those actresses.

[Excelsior.]

I think it could be Essen.

[batboy99]

I know Im just opening old wounds here and dont get me wrong, I think their choice for Selina is great, but I cant help but feel just a bit bitter than Marion is still(most likely) in this movie and she wasnt considered for Catwoman.

[iamcitizen]

Take into account the other actress being mentioned. Of the four of them only Marion and maybe Rachel are suited to play Talia, Winslet and Watts aren't.

Maybe that's why Cotillard got the role, because she was better suited for the character than the other actresses.

The one thing these women have in common is that they are mature, that's a pretty big red flag right there against Talia given Neeson is only about 12-15 years older than some of them (and hardly looks it I might add).

60 seconds on IMDB shows me that Neeson was born in 1952, and Watts, the oldest of the actresses in question, was born in 1968. A sixteen year age difference. And again, Watts is too old to play Talia, which I suspect is one of the reasons she didn't get the role.

[Excelsior.]

I know Im just opening old wounds here and dont get me wrong, I think their choice for Selina is great, but I cant help but feel just a bit bitter than Marion is still(most likely) in this movie and she wasnt considered for Catwoman.

Well, she is pregnant. Presumably whatever role she will get will not involve a lot of physical action.

She can't hold an American accent. Catwoman is an Italian American not a French immigrant.

[batboy99]

Well, she is pregnant. Presumably whatever role she will get will not involve a lot of physical action.

She can't hold an American accent. Catwoman is an Italian American not a French immigrant.
Bale is Welsh... your point is.........?

I did know she was pregnant, but I thought the filming didnt start till like, 6 months after she is due?? I might have read that wrong though.



Make her Ivy dammit! Yes!! :p

[jmc]

Maybe that's why Cotillard got the role, because she was better suited for the character than the other actresses.

60 seconds on IMDB shows me that Neeson was born in 1952, and Watts, the oldest of the actresses in question, was born in 1968. A sixteen year age difference. And again, Watts is too old to play Talia, which I suspect is one of the reasons she didn't get the role.

You're missing the point. Why would they even talk to the likes of Watts or Weisz for a role they wouldn't be suited for? Marion may be suited for Talia, but the other actresses aren't, hence the role is unlikely to be Talia.

[iamcitizen]

Bale is Welsh... your point is.........?

Bale can do a convincing American accent. Faking an accent isn't something anyone can do. It's a skill. It's especially hard if you aren't a native speaker of the language.

[raybia]

You're missing the point. Why would they even talk to the likes of Watts or Weisz for a role they wouldn't be suited for? Marion may be suited for Talia, but the other actresses aren't, hence the role is unlikely to be Talia.

Maybe Nolan thought otherwise.

[jmc]

To me the age is the give away. If any of the group of actresses were to be Talia it would have been the 20 somethings of Hathaway, Knightly etc, instead they were going for Catwoman. It doesn't make sense to me to be scouting for women over 35 for Talia, especially when Neeson is fairly young looking for his age. I could buy them as being his sister but not his daughter.

[20thCenturyBoy]

Just a thought on the Sarah Essen thing... if Cotillard was the "Love interest" of the two female roles, that doesn't mean she's a love interest for Bruce.

[jmc]

^ That's a valid point you bring up there actually. Maybe we've all been too quick to assume the love interest is for Bruce. Something to ponder.

[TheBatman072]

^ That's a valid point you bring up there actually. Maybe we've all been too quick to assume the love interest is for Bruce. Something to ponder.

The only other person she could be a love interest for is Gordon.

Would Nolan really go the "Gordon has an affair" route with the very altruistic Gordon?

[Paste Pot Pete]

Like I suggested before, I think "love interest" period could be nothing more than an assumption down the wire somewhere. People see a list of actresses for a movie like Batman, they automatically assume love interest.

Almost sexist, no? There's no reason this character can't just be a single woman without designs on Bruce, Gordon, or anyone.

[Excelsior.]

Why not?

[TheBatman072]

Like I suggested before, I think "love interest" period could be nothing more than an assumption down the wire somewhere. People see a list of actresses for a movie like Batman, they automatically assume love interest.

Almost sexist, no? There's no reason this character can't just be a single woman without designs on Bruce, Gordon, or anyone.

Another good point.

Also, that original report of "one villain/one love interest" could have very well been complete ********.

We've got Catwoman, who will more than likely act as BOTH love interest and villain(a love antagonist), and then we've got Bane, the main villain.

There's room for at most on more villain(the mob like villain) and maybe one or two more supporting characters.

[20thCenturyBoy]

The only other person she could be a love interest for is Gordon.

Would Nolan really go the "Gordon has an affair" route with the very altruistic Gordon?

While I don't see this happening since TDK did a lot to build up or imply the strength of their relationship, I could see Gordon's wife leaving him after what she went through in TDK... Gordon was becoming a dangerous person to be around, emotionally and literally. I don't really think she's Essen, just speculating on if she was.

I thnk Mr. Pot Pete has the most accurate-sounding idea... it would be rather odd to have two love interests for Bruce in the same movie.

[jmc]

The only other person she could be a love interest for is Gordon.

Would Nolan really go the ''Gordon has an affair'' route with the very altruistic Gordon?

No, because I think someone needs to be the moral authority in the series and I think Chris knows this. Gordon has to be the lone voice of reason and sanity, he has to be the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction in amongst the madness going on around him, he has to be the genuine good guy, having an affair would destroy that. That said, the events of TDK with his wife and family could lead to his marriage dissolving, opening the way for Sarrah Essen or a character like her.

[KRIM]

Having an affair never stopped Gordon from being a genuine good guy in the comics. If anything it gave him some depth, and showed that characters are always gray. Even the most altruistic and good-hearted of people have flaws.

[jmc]

Having an affair never stopped Gordon from being a genuine good guy in the comics. If anything it gave him some depth, and showed that characters are always gray. Even the most altruistic and good-hearted of people have flaws.

That kinds goes against the point of the character Nolan has set up though. The whole point of Gordon in the series is he's a guy who plays by the rules whilst everyone else around him is doing whatever they want, Gordon isn't grey, he's very much white. If Gordon is susceptible to falling then there's no hope for anyone, doesn't matter if he's still a good guy after the fact, you've just brought him down a level in the audiences eye. As mentioned, he has to remain the moral symbol of the series, having an affair destroys that instantly.

[flickchick85]

Just a thought on the Sarah Essen thing... if Cotillard was the "Love interest" of the two female roles, that doesn't mean she's a love interest for Bruce.
That's been brought up before, but the very same reports that stated the "one female villain, one love interest" thing ALSO specified that the "love interest" was for Bruce. So if we assume they were wrong about that, we might as well assume they were wrong about the other role being a love interest at all.

Like I suggested before, I think "love interest" period could be nothing more than an assumption down the wire somewhere. People see a list of actresses for a movie like Batman, they automatically assume love interest.

Almost sexist, no? There's no reason this character can't just be a single woman without designs on Bruce, Gordon, or anyone.
And I'd prefer this.

[KRIM]

That kinds goes against the point of the character Nolan has set up though. The whole point of Gordon in the series is he's a guy who plays by the rules whilst everyone else around him is doing whatever they want, Gordon isn't grey, he's very much white. If Gordon is susceptible to falling then there's no hope for anyone, doesn't matter if he's still a good guy after the fact, you've just brought him down a level in the audiences eye. As mentioned, he has to remain the moral symbol of the series, having an affair destroys that instantly.
It's an affair. It's not murder. Nolan has also been insistent on driving Batman's moral code into the movies, those of which he isn't always able to live up to perfectly. That doesn't make it hopeless, it informs how the world isn't made of absolutes.

[TheBatman072]

No, because I think someone needs to be the moral authority in the series and I think Chris knows this. Gordon has to be the lone voice of reason and sanity, he has to be the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction in amongst the madness going on around him, he has to be the genuine good guy, having an affair would destroy that. That said, the events of TDK with his wife and family could lead to his marriage dissolving, opening the way for Sarrah Essen or a character like her.

Agreed.

[Excelsior.]

Yes. The only "morally absolute" character in Nolan's movies is the Joker. But he is a mysterious case.

[jmc]

It may as well be murder, an affair is an affair, it changes the perspective people have on a character instantly. It doesn't matter if he's still a good guy underneath, he just cheated on his wife and that drags him down a level. Gordon has to remain the one good person in amongst the madness, he's gotta be the everyman, he's gotta be the lone voice of sanity.

[Paste Pot Pete]

Aside from the moral implications, does anyone honestly see Nolan setting aside time in this final movie to deal with Gordon's love life?

Gordon's had a nice, meaty role in this series (at least compared to previous incarnations), but let's face it, he still gets very few scenes revolving around his personal life, and not directly involving Batman.

I actually do believe that Essen has a good shot of showing up in the film, but I'd assume it would be merely in a professional capacity. Like I said before, she would easily fill the void left by Rachel/Dent/Loeb/Flass as the token cop/public official for Gordon to work with.

[iamcitizen]

No, because I think someone needs to be the moral authority in the series and I think Chris knows this. Gordon has to be the lone voice of reason and sanity, he has to be the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction in amongst the madness going on around him, he has to be the genuine good guy, having an affair would destroy that. That said, the events of TDK with his wife and family could lead to his marriage dissolving, opening the way for Sarrah Essen or a character like her.

See, I felt like the "the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction" was Rachel. Rachel fought the mob, but never condoned extra-legal vigilante justice, whereas Gordon was willing to work side-by-side with not only an outlaw vigilante but with crooked cops. Rachel was appalled by dishonesty and refused to abide by Harvey taking the blame for being Batman, whereas Gordon took part in a conspiracy to frame an innocent man for multiple homicides in order to preserve the public image of the real killer. Gordon is guilty of all the crimes Batman is guilty of, with the addition of hypocrisy, since he is a cop.

Gordon is the most morally compromised character in the whole series. Batman and Dent (before his scarring) were idealists who bent the rules in the name of capital-g Good. The mob had their own code of ethics ("honor... respect") and Ra's al Ghul was trying, in his way, to save the world from crime. Even the Joker was dedicated to his ideals of anarchy.

Gordon, however, bends and breaks the rules not out of dedication to an ideal but out of a desire for an ill-defined sense of order. Gordon represents the people of Gotham, who want security but are too scared to take a true stand against crime. The citizens of Gotham support Batman's war on the mob when it is only Batman's life on the line, but turn on Batman as soon as the Joker starts killing citizens.

This is why Gordon makes it through the movie intact and with his loved ones alive. In the Nolan-Batman-universe, idealists are doomed to smash up against other idealists until everyone is broken. The only way to avoid breaking is to bend.

[Paste Pot Pete]

See, I felt like the "the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction" was Rachel. Rachel fought the mob, but never condoned extra-legal vigilante justice, whereas Gordon was willing to work side-by-side with not only an outlaw vigilante but with crooked cops. Rachel was appalled by dishonesty and refused to abide by Harvey taking the blame for being Batman, whereas Gordon took part in a conspiracy to frame an innocent man for multiple homicides in order to preserve the public image of the real killer. Gordon is guilty of all the crimes Batman is guilty of, with the addition of hypocrisy, since he is a cop.

Gordon is the most morally compromised character in the whole series. Batman and Dent (before his scarring) were idealists who bent the rules in the name of capital-g Good. The mob had their own code of ethics ("honor... respect") and Ra's al Ghul was trying, in his way, to save the world from crime. Even the Joker was dedicated to his ideals of anarchy.

Gordon, however, bends and breaks the rules not out of dedication to an ideal but out of a desire for an ill-defined sense of order. Gordon represents the people of Gotham, who want security but are too scared to take a true stand against crime. The citizens of Gotham support Batman's war on the mob when it is only Batman's life on the line, but turn on Batman as soon as the Joker starts killing citizens.

This is why Gordon makes it through the movie intact and with his loved ones alive. In the Nolan-Batman-universe, idealists are doomed to smash up against other idealists until everyone is broken. The only way to avoid breaking is to bend.

Exceptional. :applaud

[KRIM]

It may as well be murder, an affair is an affair, it changes the perspective people have on a character instantly. It doesn't matter if he's still a good guy underneath, he just cheated on his wife and that drags him down a level. Gordon has to remain the one good person in amongst the madness, he's gotta be the everyman, he's gotta be the lone voice of sanity.
So you subscribe to Rachel's philosophy of "It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you"? In which case, Gordon is far from wholly innocent. The climax of TDK works so well because all 3 men of the law were all facing each other with the mistakes they've made. Gordon's apology to Dent wasn't out of desperation, it was completely honest. There is guilt there as he is partly responsible for the terrible spiral that led to Rachel's death and Dent's downfall. It is something he carries with tremendous regret, I'm sure. Deliberately working with crooked cops, not listening to Dent, following Batman's lead which is unlawful -- good intentions, but ultimately ill advised. Anyone that thinks Gordon is strictly by the books is not paying close attention. He is the everyman, but one whose options are consistently limited and is forced to work with what is given. At times that means he has to bend the rules for what he hopes is for the better. As you can see Gordon tried to do everything right and still failed to live up to his own expectations. Once again, morally gray.

Joker is the only absolute.

See, I felt like the "the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction" was Rachel. Rachel fought the mob, but never condoned extra-legal vigilante justice, whereas Gordon was willing to work side-by-side with not only an outlaw vigilante but with crooked cops. Rachel was appalled by dishonesty and refused to abide by Harvey taking the blame for being Batman, whereas Gordon took part in a conspiracy to frame an innocent man for multiple homicides in order to preserve the public image of the real killer. Gordon is guilty of all the crimes Batman is guilty of, with the addition of hypocrisy, since he is a cop.

Gordon is the most morally compromised character in the whole series. Batman and Dent (before his scarring) were idealists who bent the rules in the name of capital-g Good. The mob had their own code of ethics ("honor... respect") and Ra's al Ghul was trying, in his way, to save the world from crime. Even the Joker was dedicated to his ideals of anarchy.

Gordon, however, bends and breaks the rules not out of dedication to an ideal but out of a desire for an ill-defined sense of order. Gordon represents the people of Gotham, who want security but are too scared to take a true stand against crime. The citizens of Gotham support Batman's war on the mob when it is only Batman's life on the line, but turn on Batman as soon as the Joker starts killing citizens.

This is why Gordon makes it through the movie intact and with his loved ones alive. In the Nolan-Batman-universe, idealists are doomed to smash up against other idealists until everyone is broken. The only way to avoid breaking is to bend.
Yup. :up:

[aandfrugby25]

Bale can do a convincing American accent. Faking an accent isn't something anyone can do. It's a skill. It's especially hard if you aren't a native speaker of the language.

The Brittish and the Aussies have and easier time doing American than the French do. The British can almost always tell when an American is doing an English accent. But anyway for a French person to pull of an American is tough.

[Nave 'Torment']

Marion is a great actress, but she's not a native english speaker. It's more difficult for her because she had to learn the language and pull out a perfect accent. It's almost impossible for a french to pass for an american like it's almost impossible for an american to pass for a french.
To all the english speaking actors/actresses I know, only Jodie Foster could almost pass for a french, but that's only because she has always been in french schools and despite this, she still has a little accent sometimes.

In my opinion, they want Marion for Talia or a new character (a foreign one). I think she would make a great Talia.

Are you under the impression that only native English speakers can speak in a perfect accent? You couldn't me more wrong my friend. And these are actors we're talking about, accents and believability are a part of their craft. The same goes for any other languages. To me, this is an absurd notion, and not the good kind.

Bale can do a convincing American accent. Faking an accent isn't something anyone can do. It's a skill. It's especially hard if you aren't a native speaker of the language.

^ That's a valid point you bring up there actually. Maybe we've all been too quick to assume the love interest is for Bruce. Something to ponder.

I've been saying this for a long time :)

The only other person she could be a love interest for is Gordon.

Would Nolan really go the "Gordon has an affair" route with the very altruistic Gordon?

I believe iamcitizen made a very strong post regarding this. And I wouldn't worry about an affair affecting his altruism, the only way it can be irksome is his marriage, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was ruined after what happened in TDK. I know it's too cynical a notion, but not one that can be refuted until we know otherwise. In addition, the Sarah Essen character brings to the table another by-the-book figure who is willing to expose the corruption that's in Gotham City, as citizen just said, Gordon too has bent certain rules. Sarah, a cop with an attitude, would be a much better addition than Bullock or Talia, or even Janice Porter since Porter works best as a corrupted DA. I'm also a bit tired of seeing DAs at this point. Sarah Essen is more than just the gal Jim had a fling with in the early days. She's his most compatible wife.

[aandfrugby25]

troll

[Banana-Hotdog]

No effing way
http://www.darkniterises.com


One quick glance at your 3 post history tells me you are a troll.

Be gone.:cmad:

[aandfrugby25]

YOU SHALL NOT PASS TROLL
http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff409/brandonvstheuniverse/th_you-shall-not-pass.jpg

[RoughNTumble]

I consider myself a very talented person, capable of accomplishing anything I set my mind to. I have a good ear for music and sounds and a good singing voice. I gave an afternoon's attempt at putting on a scottish accent. Listening to advice from people on youtube, listening to different scottish people and the way they pronounce certain words, and of course practicing a lot. I was absolute rubbish. I'm certain that if I kept at it I could eventually be convincing, but it's really no easy task to switch accents and keep it believable. It takes a lot of hard work.

[flickchick85]

Are you under the impression that only native English speakers can speak in a perfect accent? You couldn't me more wrong my friend. And these are actors we're talking about, accents and believability are a part of their craft. The same goes for any other languages. To me, this is an absurd notion, and not the good kind.

I don't believe lililatigresse was suggesting it was impossible, just pointing out that it's an ENTIRELY different animal for a non-native English speaker to speak English with a perfect accent than it is for the Kate Winslets and Russell Crowes of the world. It's not a matter of acting or accents so much as it is a matter of language. Finding an actor who can speak a second language with a flawless accent is extremely rare, because some languages, including French, use completely different muscles in the throat to speak it than English does. The only actors I've seen able to pull off a second language without an accent from their native one are those whose muscles have already been conditioned for that language through years of schooling, like Eva Green and Jodie Foster. And that's only because Green learned in an English school growing up, and Foster learned in a French one, and even THEN, neither of them do it perfectly. And I still doubt Green's ability to speak with an American accent, because you can still hear her "French muscles" at work when she's speaking in her English one (ever notice how she sounds like she's swallowing her consonants?).

The point is, it's not impossible for Cotillard to drop her accent. It's just a HUGE undertaking, and with what little prep time she's gonna have for this movie, and considering she's gonna have her hands full pretty soon as well, I doubt that she would have time for such an undertaking (or that Nolan would ask it of her). This character's gonna have a French-ish accent. I'd bet money on that.

[lililatigresse]

You're missing the point. Why would they even talk to the likes of Watts or Weisz for a role they wouldn't be suited for? Marion may be suited for Talia, but the other actresses aren't, hence the role is unlikely to be Talia.

Because Watts and Weisz are two of the best actresses today and they are known for aging well and looking younger than they are.
Wasn't Cillian Murphy is the short list for Batman? I mean I adore him, but do you really think he is perfectly suited for Batman?
By the way Cotillard is 35 and Neesom is 58.

[TheTrickster]

Idon't have a problem with accents. Sean Connery played Russians, French, English, Americans, etc and never changed his accent for any of his roles.

[plugginmuffin]

I'm really quite saddened she's not going to be Selina. :( I just really hope Marion won't be Talia, besides, wouldn't she be a bit old for Ra's daughter? Not that she is old, but he'd be a young dad.

[Mercurius]

Differences are:

1. Hugh Laurie is a natural English speaker

2. His accent is nowhere near as thick as Cotillard's and is easier to flatten.

Similutes are: two great actors, two peculiar abilities of concealing, and rich studio backing it up.

[the Wankstar]

Ive a hard time believing Marion will put her new born child aside to do this movie, really hope Winslet gets it.

[Mercurius]

Winslet would be a perfect Essen.

[*Whiplash*]

Ive a hard time believing Marion will put her new born child aside to do this movie, really hope Winslet gets it.

Well, they're filming again in November so perhaps she'll do all her scenes then.

[the Wankstar]

I know she wont be preggers anymore im talking about actually being there the first few months for her first born child.

Im curious if Nolan would combine Essen/Janice Porter to kill two birds with one stone

[RustyCage]

Aside from the moral implications, does anyone honestly see Nolan setting aside time in this final movie to deal with Gordon's love life?

Gordon's had a nice, meaty role in this series (at least compared to previous incarnations), but let's face it, he still gets very few scenes revolving around his personal life, and not directly involving Batman.

I actually do believe that Essen has a good shot of showing up in the film, but I'd assume it would be merely in a professional capacity. Like I said before, she would easily fill the void left by Rachel/Dent/Loeb/Flass as the token cop/public official for Gordon to work with.

Agreed, and I'd prefer it that way frankly. It's such a silly contrivance to me, his affair.

[Mercurius]

I think the affair stuff is really nice (and I expect Nolan to do something with it), cause everything in Batman is always a way to explore human weakness and how to deal with it in a way that most other comic book characters and stories wouldn't do.

This is a very interesting feature: Batman needs to deal with a darker world, that is quite like ours, but he does that conjuring abnormal force and personal beliefs, not to mention the theatrics.

And the Essen affair is something that begins in a very human way, purely as a love attraction, but it is immediately taken out of its proportion, bringing mayhem to the whole city, and hell into Gordon's life.

It's a very interesting way to underline how evil the mechanisms of that society are, and, of course, in a mirror, ours too.

[the amazing fro]

I hate the Gordon affair thing because it removes any sympathy or admiration I ever had for Gordon. And for him to have an affair after his wife and children nearly got killed would be the pinnacle of *******ness.

[Gianakin_]

I think Gordon having an affair can be a very good story element. It doesn't remove anything from his bravery or his altruism concerning his fight against crime. It just makes him even more human in my eyes. Of course, they shouldn't write the story with Gordon being a d**chebag while and when he's doing what he does.

[*Whiplash*]

I hate the Gordon affair thing because it removes any sympathy or admiration I ever had for Gordon. And for him to have an affair after his wife and children nearly got killed would be the pinnacle of *******ness.

I agree with this.

[the amazing fro]

It would also be a bit of an unnecessary distraction. A random subplot of the police commissioner doing the dirty with one of his co-workers would feel unbelievably out of place especially since this is one supposed to be batman's story.

[TheScarecrow]

I would prefer Winslet.

If Winslet wanted to be in any movie, I can't imagine they wouldn't cast her. Winslet's my favourite actress, Marion's second. So...this is not a major issue for me.

But yes, I'd prefer Winslet if only to add a bit of variety and "OMG, how will she play it!" to the role (since I still think it's Talia).

[Gianakin_]

It would also be a bit of an unnecessary distraction. A random subplot of the police commissioner doing the dirty with one of his co-workers would feel unbelievably out of place especially since this is one supposed to be batman's story.

That would depend on the overall story and themes, which I don't know.

[Mercurius]

It would also be a bit of an unnecessary distraction. A random subplot of the police commissioner doing the dirty with one of his co-workers would feel unbelievably out of place especially since this is one supposed to be batman's story.

It isn't "dirty". The name for what they're doing is of great nobility. It is called "biblical".

[the amazing fro]

It isn't "dirty". The name for what they're doing is of great nobility. It is called "biblical".

It ain't so noble when he's got a wife and two kids at home who have been through ****. Its downright dirty.

[Gianakin_]

It ain't so noble when he's got a wife and two kids at home who have been through ****. Its downright dirty.

It's a questionable course of action. And that's why it's an interesting human aspect to explore.

[Mercurius]

It ain't so noble when he's got a wife and two kids at home who have been through ****. Its downright dirty.

Gianakin is right about the questionable action to explore dramatically.

And it's far more complicated than "downright dirty", unless you may find a synonym for 'downright dirty" in "human".

I can't believe you have never watched a film by Woody Allen, or read the Confessions, by Augustine. Or even the History of my Life, by Giacomo Casanova.

[the amazing fro]

Gianakin is right about the questionable action to explore dramatically.

And it's far more complicated than "downright dirty", unless you may find a synonym for 'downright dirty" in "human".


Is it so wrong to find adultery immoral? I think cheating is a totally disgusting thing to do but perhaps I'm old fashioned. There are better and more intelligent ways for Gordon's character to be explored than making him an ass.


I can't believe you have never watched a film by Woody Allen, or read the Confessions, by Augustine. Or even the History of my Life, by Giacomo Casanova


Woody Allen is perhaps the most overrated director in Hollywood and "Histoire de ma vie" is utter dross. I haven't read Confessions but I doubt it would sway me much in my opinion