Which Beast do you prefer? Kelsey Grammer's Classic Beast or Nicholas Hoult's Cat?

[Alexei Belyakov]

Brought this over from the other thread. Which of the two do you prefer?

http://i56.tinypic.com/b80msy.jpg

For me, the guy up top is Beast. He's the Beast I grew up reading (in the 80s) and the Beast that we all love and remember from the show. While I'm sure today's teens probably don't remember the Classic version of the character, I still doubt they're more familiar with Cassaday's take on him.

Classic Beast emanated wisdom and amiability even with his monstruous physique and ferocious qualities. Vaughn's Beast just looks scary.

[BMM]

I may prefer "classic" Beast, but that doesn't mean I like the way he looks in The Last Stand. I much prefer the color variation and attention to detail of Hoult's Beast.

[S. Grundy]

Classic or car I'm fine with either look for Beast. But from a film/make-up stand point, First Class Beast really highlights the laziness the make-up in The Last Stand.

[Hotwire]

Not sure which one I like. I think this will come down to more of how the actor portrays him. Personally, I thought Kelsy Grammer did a real good job.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Need to see more of the FC one really before I could make a proper judgement.

[chaseter]

Off of looks, classic Beast. I think new Beast would look pretty good if he didn't have yellow cat eyes. Those are really distracting in that pic.

[psyonic]

Need to see more of the FC one really before I could make a proper judgement.

True, but appearance wise, Cat Beast looks cooler. X3's Beast looks like a hairy blue man but FC's Beast looks like an actual Beast. Both are comic accurate but FC Beast looks better.

[Rosalina]

I like both of them, but I think by a hair, the classic wins. There is just something about it.

[Wade Garrett]

As far as i notice, they gave him more fur and a line down his upper lip. And yellow eyes.. They look basically the same.

[donk70]

Actually, Classic Beast is supposed to look more like George "The Animal" Steele.

http://images.tvrage.com/people/67/198548.jpg

[Iceman]

Neither are perfect to me but the top pic is THE very best pic I've seen of Kelsey Grammer as Beast (some other pics are nowhere near as good) while the other is the only one I've seen of Nicholas Hoult's Beast. So really I'll wait till I've seen more of the new one before I can say anything definitively.

Edit: for the record I am a big fan of Classic Beast from the comics & much less so of Cat Beast. Also a massive fan of Kelsey Grammer as Beast. I just think the 'costume' they gave him looked like a human with blue skin, long blue hair & a long blue beard.

[PsyJ]

I think both versions look great. Kelsey Grammer's performance as Beast in TLS was awesome, it was truly inspired casting :woot:. I won't judge Nicholas Hoult's performance until I see First Class.

[Endeavor]

I've always hated Feline Beast. I hate the ilogical infantile reason why he was turned into a cat. It's wasn't only a bad idea it was poor writing, just plain bad storytelling. I think it's a shame that they are now bringing that horrible mistake into the movie-verse.
Of course I do agree with the comments about the makeup quality.
Even though Xmen3's Beast was more like the best liked blue ape form they makeup & FX did not have the attention to detail that they seem to have dedicated to this newer version.. I still hate the blue cat though

[Mulholland '49]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think the X3 version is better. I never liked cat beast.


EDIT: Actually the only thing I don't like about Holut's Beast is the mouth. I hin it would be better with a normal mouth.

[The Guard]

Grammar's Beast.

Thus far, Hoult's looks like a kitten. And maybe that's the point, but...

[WildcatNC]

Kelsey by a mile. FAR better. Not even close. Best part of X3.

[JP]

I think the options aren't clear.

For one, I love ape Beast and I love cat Beast. Yet I don't see how Kelsey looks like ape Beast, or how Hoult looks like cat Beast.

The poll should have simply asked which theatrical version of Beast do you prefer. And, in my honest opinion the make-up work done for First Class destroys the make-up work done in The Last Stand by a long shot.

[WildcatNC]

I think the options aren't clear.

For one, I love ape Beast and I love cat Beast. Yet I don't see how Kelsey looks like ape Beast, or how Hoult looks like cat Beast.

The poll should have simply asked which theatrical version of Beast do you prefer. And, in my honest opinion the make-up work done for First Class destroys the make-up work done in The Last Stand by a long shot.


To me Grammar was a perfect beast. I agree the makup could have used some improvement but he was so dead on the character to me that it didn't matter. There wasn't much to like about X3 but he was one of them. Its more how he came off on screen than how he looked.

I prefer the "ape" beast honestly. I'm not a big fan of the cat look.

[Ipodman]

What about the Wolfman Beast we saw in that leaked photo...

[Bren]

I'm biased because I prefer ape-beast, and Grammar was very much how I always thought Beast should sound like, which was great. And unfair on Hoult because we haven't even heard him speak yet. I do like his human 'look', he looks both cool and nerdy if you know what I mean.

So so far, X3 beast, but which loses points because of bad make-up.

[LastSunrise1981]

Beast has always been one of my favorite Marvel characters. So as far as which one do I prefer? It's tough to say but I'll need to see more of the FC performance before I can judge.

My only gripe with Beast in X3 that his genius intellect wasn't explored enough and we didn't see him in his natural element. I wanted to see him in a lab mixing chemicals, reading a novel, teaching a class, or making some updates to the Danger Room.

Here's hoping we get some of that in First Class.

[GREEN =w= DAY]

i'm more partial to the classic Beast because it's the Beast i grew up with back in the 90s (animated series, Jim Lee's work)

but the cat look is not bad. looks like the Beast from the Astonoshing X-Men

but in the end, it's all in the performance. one of the only good things about X3 was Kelsey Grammer. he gave an excellent performance and it's a shame he was not brought in for previous films. it was perfect casting IMO.

[SuperFerret]

Remove the funny nose from Hoult's Beast, give him a normal nose, the darker blue of Blue Fraiser and more/longer fur and it's perfect.

Kelsey had the best Beast voice I've heard though.

[jacobed]

Kelsey Grammar is the perfect Beast in just voice alone and I thought he looked pretty fantastic in X3 but I'm really curious as to how they'll do Beast in this one. Just from the trailer alone it looks like he'll be a bit more scientific. As for the looks I gotta go with cat beast, just looks different and is pretty sweet.

[Primal Slayer]

Classic Beast. But I just choose to believe he still goes through mutation as he gets older leading us to XLS Beast.

[X-Maniac]

I'm willing to give Hoult's Beast a chance. Whatever the fans want, they're not going to alter the look at this late stage, and with Singer/Vaughn behind it, it should be good. The make-up is good, and I agree it is better make-up than in TLS.

If we can accept that Liev's Sabretooth became Tyler's Sabretooth, then i can accept that Nicholas's Beast matures into Kelsey's Beast.

[Alexei Belyakov]

I'm willing to give Hoult's Beast a chance. Whatever the fans want, they're not going to alter the look at this late stage, and with Singer/Vaughn behind it, it should be good. The make-up is good, and I agree it is better make-up than in TLS.

Last night I noticed that its not a case of "better" make-up on Cat Beast. Its a case of CG enhancing the colors:

http://i54.tinypic.com/2v2f7ts.jpg

Underneath the CG he's just a guy with make-up - but with a much darker blue. They've made him alot more vibrant with the CG which I think is why Vaughn was unhappy with them releasing a pre-CG shot of him.

Here's some nice caps of Kelsey as Beast, and the make-up isn't at all subpar. Kelsey isn't just painted blue. He's wearing facial prosthetics on his cheekbones, chin and eyebrows to give him that neanderthal with a hint of animal look :woot:

http://i55.tinypic.com/pq89h.jpg

[Gunga Diner]

I like that Last Stand's beast has a humanity to his design that's accessible, and the eyebrows are tastefully done. But I like that the First Class beast has a more creature-y element to him. But my feelings toward the make-up will come down entirely to how the actor plays him. If the monsterous qualities of the make-up are there to contrast the polite, gentlemanly and scholarly demeanor of Hank, then I'll be happy.

[Angamb]

I hated X3 look.

not sure about First Class yet.... need to see the movie, I suppose.

[Iceman]

See I think TLS Beast looks ok in those pics (mainly 'cause you can recognise KG & his awesome performance straightaway) except for when he tries to act 'beastly' (picture 3 where he's roaring).

[Angamb]

really?

some of those caps are horrible to me :S

He looks like some random character on a low budget opera or musical.

[Alexei Belyakov]

really?

some of those caps are horrible to me :S

He looks like some random character on a low budget opera or musical.

Are you familiar with Beast before Cassaday's take on him? We're talking 30 years of the character looking like Kelsey did in X3.

[Angamb]

Im familiar with make-up and all that stuff...

and knowing the comics, tv series of the x-men, and more... I think it wasnt an impressive work from the make-up departament.

In my opinion, it didnt deserve any recognition from any awards.

[Iceman]

really?

some of those caps are horrible to me :S

He looks like some random character on a low budget opera or musical.Only ok, not good or great!

Are you familiar with Beast before Cassaday's take on him? We're talking 30 years of the character looking like Kelsey did in X3.I've read every single X-Men comic & TLS makeup/costume doesn't do justice to the look in my book. KG was amazing as Beast, he really nailed it & if it had been a clown in the role who had completely mucked up the character, maybe it would be easier to assess the costume on its own merits. KG's facial expressions & mannerisms were great & you see part of that in these pics. The positive I see is the part that he puts into it, not the costume itself.

I'm a fan of Ape-Beast, not Cat-Beast & if the look matched up to the performance, we'd have a RDJ as Tony Stark on our hands.

[Angamb]

The casting choice was perfect.

but Beast looked like a troll more than Beast from the x-men comics.

[BMM]

I hope they make the transition from Beast's neck to his body look better than they did in The Last Stand. In scenes on the X-Jet, it looks like Beast's mutation consists of a crew neck made of fur.

I also hope they manage to avoid any poor looking wire work.

[The Guard]

Grammer's Beast was a lot more subtle than the comics version has been since he transformed into the blue version. He wasn't nearly as animalistic as Beast was usually depicted, and I think the look owed a lot to the animated series portrayal of Hank. Still, the classic elements were there, and the makeup was fantastic.

I much prefer the apelike versions of Beast, becase it makes more sense to me that he'd mutate into that than a catlike creature.

[Alexei Belyakov]

The casting choice was perfect.

but Beast looked like a troll more than Beast from the x-men comics.

I'm still not convinced you're familiar with the Classic Beast from the comics/TV Series.

Here's a good shot (by Boris Vallejo)

http://i55.tinypic.com/v8ftz.jpg

That's the look they were emulating in The Last Stand.

[craigdbfan]

Both looks IMO have achieved what they're trying to adapt.

Grammar was clearly influenced by X-Men animated and Hoult is straight from the Uncanny X-Men comic pages.

They should add a "both" option to the poll because I find it that we're incredibly lucky to get both Beast iterations and possibly the OG look with the big hands and feet in the beginning.

[Alexei Belyakov]

I've always hated Feline Beast. I hate the ilogical infantile reason why he was turned into a cat. It's wasn't only a bad idea it was poor writing, just plain bad storytelling. I think it's a shame that they are now bringing that horrible mistake into the movie-verse.

I agree, always hated what they did to Hank :csad: I'll never understand why Vaughn prefers that take on him.

[Snikt]

My only gripe is FC's Beast's yellow cat eyes. They just throw me off. But it's really hard to tell from that one picture if he'll be completely Cat Beast.

For me, I can easliy see how he can go from the Beast in First Class to the Best in X3. I'm just happy to see Beast again in action.

[craigdbfan]

Wow it really seems like they're aren't many X-fans who like both kitty and ape/humanoid Beast.

I think I may possibly be the only one that likes both of them for absolutely different reasons. Both of them are brilliant.

Oh well. :(

[JP]

I love them both.

[Marvel]

The only time I've stopped reading X-Men over the past few decades was when Grant Morrison and Chuck Austen were butchering the characters with their juvenile writing. Yes, I know a lot of fans like the Morrison stuff but I'm not one of them. I hate Disney Cat Beast and secondary mutations. Joss Whedon made diamond Emma and Cat Beast work but I still don't like the look or concepts born from that era. I'm hoping Singer/Vaughn do the same thing in the film.

[Project862006]

TLS beast make up looked dodgy i am fully aware i am looking at a man in make up

just saying

[LastSunrise1981]

One of the key aspects that was missing was from X3 in my opinion was the mystery of Beast. What I mean is having a new student stumble upon one of his labs and see this ape/cat like beast mixing chemicals, working out functions on a board, or reading/reciting quotes or poems. I think it would've been nice to have something of that nature take place.

Those who are not familiar with the character would be like "What in the world?"

[Silvermoth]

Bit unfair to do it atm. Give Nicholas a chance!:yay:

[Mulholland '49]

I did kind of cringe at X3 Beast's fight scenes though.

[Heffer Wolf]

I love this thread, Its basicly whats better, the from your childhood super awesome ape like kelsey grammar beast, or the half second clip of this new age cat beast?

I voted new beast. X3 Beast did look like Kelsey Grammar painted blue.

[GuestStar2004]

the new look is very much similiar too

http://images.comiccollectorlive.com/covers/f77/f7791f1d-1118-4164-a577-948b680e5eab.jpg

http://www.blogomatic3000.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/astonishing-x-men-1-100k.jpg


i think beasts change is meant to be quite tragic in the first class so id guess if he looked like the last stands beast it wouldnt be such a big deal

[def28]

Both Beasts look fine. Only personal preference is the deciding factor and with a mere second shot of half First Class Beast's face shown its kind of hard to make that call as of now. Its just a matter of guessing which one will be better. I have no idea why there can be hate for X3's Beast besides the wire work at the end. He looked and acted like Beast. The transformation aspect with the character and how that affects him personally is whats gonna make First Class's Beast better. Im sure the action will be done better as well. But to early to call.

[Optimus_Prime_]

For me the portrayal of Beast is entirely up to the actor, not the special effects. I've been exposed to so many different Beast "looks" over the years I no longer favor one over the other. When I first started reading comics he had blue fur, then shortly afterwards he went back to his linebacker look on X-Factor, then he rejoined the X-Men and got his blue ape look back for the cartoon, then I really got back into X-Men when Morrison came onboard and saw him in full plush toy mode. To me I never liked him looking like a Nightcrawler/Wolverine love-child, especially as a youngster because I was a Cyclops fan and hated Wolverine. For me I've always liked Beast, partly because Cyclops was such a trusted friend of his, but I've always thought his protrayal trumped his appearance. I like his current Secret Avengers look and it seems a bit of that went into his movie appearance. Long story short, if Nicholas Hoult really embodies that confident, intelligent, suave yet troubled scientist I'll be happy.

Funny aside: I always thought I was like Cyclops, and one of my good friends growing up was a teacher of mine who acted just like Hank McCoy; even kind of looked like him.

[gooti]

Not a fan of the cat-monkey, but I like Nicholas Hoult as an actor so I'll get over it, I suppose.

[Alexei Belyakov]

Off of looks, classic Beast. I think new Beast would look pretty good if he didn't have yellow cat eyes. Those are really distracting in that pic.

I hate the eyes. The entire look reminds me too much of this

http://i54.tinypic.com/nlaald.jpg

And while I loved Coppola's Dracula, Beast just shouldn't look like a wolf-demon/cat.

[conan69]

I thought Kelseys Beast was the best thing about TLS.

[Kane52630]

Even though the new Beast is alright I prefer Kelsey Grammer's Beast.

[cryptic name]

Grammer was perfect casting for Beast, and the make up was okay, but his proportions were wrong, and he didn't move like Beast at all, too stiff and upright. Hoping Hoult's Beast will be presented a little differently.

[Yurka]

Ive tried to withhold judgement until the movie comes out but Grammer Beast just cant be beat IMO. I was worried before X3 about how he would look but they absolutely nailed it and no scene he was in was awkward. He was perfect. From the split second shot of Cat-beast, I cant say the same.

[WildcatNC]

Ive tried to withhold judgement until the movie comes out but Grammer Beast just cant be beat IMO. I was worried before X3 about how he would look but they absolutely nailed it and no scene he was in was awkward. He was perfect. From the split second shot of Cat-beast, I cant say the same.


Yep. Its not even the look for me either, just Grammar's portrayal of the character.

[CyclopsSummers]

I prefer Beast in X3 !!
This one is so freaky

[The Guard]

The thing about Cat Beast...is...if they're planning to connect this film with the previous films at all...I don't see why Hank would evolve from a human, to a cat thing, to a more humanoid Beast. Maybe he was able to cure himself? Crap, now I'm playing the continuity game.

I would imagine Vaughn prefers the cat Beast and things like Stacy X and The Cure because that's when he started reading X-Men comics. That's probably why the Phoenix storyline resembles the later Phoenix arc more than it does the original.

[marvelrobbins]

I see beast In first class as a cross between classic beast and recent beast.

I am certenly no fan of anything Grant Morrison did with the X-men.

[Kingslayer]

The thing about Cat Beast...is...if they're planning to connect this film with the previous films at all...I don't see why Hank would evolve from a human, to a cat thing, to a more humanoid Beast. Maybe he was able to cure himself? Crap, now I'm playing the continuity game.

I would imagine Vaughn prefers the cat Beast and things like Stacy X and The Cure because that's when he started reading X-Men comics. That's probably why the Phoenix storyline resembles the later Phoenix arc more than it does the original.

Maybe he evolved from human to cat Beast to human to humanoid Beast. :oldrazz:

Or maybe they're just eschewing continuity (or even better, blatantly ignoring it!)

[Alexei Belyakov]

The thing about Cat Beast...is...if they're planning to connect this film with the previous films at all...I don't see why Hank would evolve from a human, to a cat thing, to a more humanoid Beast. Maybe he was able to cure himself? Crap, now I'm playing the continuity game.

I would imagine Vaughn prefers the cat Beast and things like Stacy X and The Cure because that's when he started reading X-Men comics. That's probably why the Phoenix storyline resembles the later Phoenix arc more than it does the original.

That's always been my theory on Vaughn. Had he started with the older comics, specially the Jim Lee stuff, we woulda gotten Beast's classic look.

I'm just glad he seems to be aiming for a closer-to-the-comics rendition of Magneto's look.

[Endeavor]

I agree, always hated what they did to Hank :csad: I'll never understand why Vaughn prefers that take on him.

That's what happens when the head editor doesn't care about a title, or characters, and he gives free reign to any egomaniac writer and allows them to ignore continuity, logic and common sense.

Vaughn probably just likes the visual, for whatever reason. Maybe he's a cat person, who knows. But he doesn't have the connection to Hank that long time readers have and he probably doesn't know why the feline mutation doesn't sit right with a lot of us.

[Alexei Belyakov]

That's what happens when the head editor doesn't care about a title, or characters, and he gives free reign to any egomaniac writer and allows them to ignore continuity, logic and common sense.

VERY well said.

Vaughn probably just likes the visual, for whatever reason. Maybe he's a cat person, who knows. But he doesn't have the connection to Hank that long time readers have and he probably doesn't know why the feline mutation doesn't sit right with a lot of us.

Dude, did you see the shot comparison above of Vaughn's Beast and Coppola's wolf/demon? They're almost identical. I'm starting to think Bram Stoker's Dracula was definitely an influence on the look of the character aside from Cassaday's Cat Beast.

But yeah, Beast isn't supposed to look terrifying.

[craigdbfan]

As I've said before both Beast are amazing and share their strong points.

Kelsey Grammer's by the way isn't fully based on the Lee design as to where it resembles the 90's cartoon's take on Lee's artwork version which looks more humanoid. They nailed it completely in that regard in X3.

As for the new one from Vaughn his hair and even nose is smaller like the Lee design along with some cat influences from Cassaday and even some inspiration from werewolves and Coppola's Dracula even.

Nothing wrong with that but here's Jim Lee's to give people a reminder:

http://ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/beast.gif

I still see similarities to Hoult's Beast in Lee's drawing.

[Endeavor]

aside from Cassaday's Cat Beast.

You know that Cassaday wasn't responsible for turning Beast into a cat, right?

It was Morrison, hence my egomaniac comment earlier.

[BMM]

Right. Beast's secondary mutation is a Morrison creation, first popularized by Quitely, not Cassaday.

[Spider-Fan83]

As much as a like Grammer's beast (an I did) the one thing they did kinda lack on, was the body, they didn’t really do anything to make him look more beast like (other then maybe some padding under his suits) though, I am slightly more concerned about this when it comes to Hoult (at least Grammer had a bit of a bigger natural frame to work with) Hoult
(he’s great, don’t get me wrong) but, he is kinda has more of a tall and thin, body type… So, I am hoping to see maybe, a body suit, or some prosthetics,… something to make him seem more beast like… I am kinda having a hard time picturing that beast face, on his body as is…

just saying

[JP]

Well, Hoult mentioned wearing a full body suit.

[craigdbfan]

He seems to be taking up a bit of space in that Blackbird so hopefully Vaughn gave us a more uniquely styled Beast and made his body more abnormally proportioned like the Lee drawing I posted.

[BMM]

...I still see similarities to Hoult's Beast in Lee's drawing.

I agree. Hoult’s Beast is an amalgamation of post-serum Beast and post-secondary mutation Beast. He’s not quite traditional, but he’s certainly no cat. Also, you’re right. It appears he may have his familiar short hair. :up:


http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2991/beastcomparison2.jpg

[craigdbfan]

Very nice picture comparison. Really puts it into perspective. :up:

Good to see I wasn't the only one to notice he is more of an amalgam than just a direct copy of Quitely or Cassadays Beast. Still looks a lot like Lee's while still sharing some properties of the former artists I mentioned.

Really liking Hoult's Beast. One of the highlights of the trailer, heck the entire trailer is a highlight. ;)

[JP]

It definitely looks more like Lee's than Cassaday's to me.

[SuperFerret]

I still think the blue is too pale.

[Mulholland '49]

It definitely looks more like Lee's than Cassaday's to me.

The only thing that looks like Cassaday's is the mouth, imo.

[Superhero 101]

Kelsey Grammar Beast looks better so far....

[EnDz0n3]

I think the blue is too pale too.

[Spider-Fan83]

idk, it's probably just the lighting in that shot... I'll hold judgment, until we see some more shots, from different angles, different lighting
(also, that isn't necessarily the final version, they might still touch it up in post)

[javphonic]

They look like they'd grow into each other with a few exceptions.. I prefer X3 Beast overall concept, but I love the clean-ness and details on XMF Beast, I really wish they would nix the line between the lip and nose for the young Beast and kept his eyes blue, it's too Mystique, I like the blue eyes on blue skin

[PROLIFIK1]

I prefer Kelsey Grammer's Beast compared to the First Class beast. I grew up watching the Fox animated series and Kelsey's reminded me of that beast. The way he talked too!

[Cassius]

As far as the look, if I had tichoose, it would be X3 beast, but I will allways prefer the original furless, fun lovin nerd who loved to party, instead of the lab rat

[ALP]

First Class Beast looks great, but I'd like his hair longer!

[Schlosser85]

I thought Kelsey Grammer's Beast was spot-on, both his appearance and Grammer's acting. Considering I've seen basically a 2 second shot of Hoult in full-fledged Beast form, and haven't seen him act yet, I think it's a little premature to be making this comparison.

[demitri_vampiro]

i didn't like the x-3 beast because it looked like a man who was painted blue. his proportions are plain human instead of having disproportionately long arms and short legs.
i havent seen too much of first class beast, but it looks like he will look more like beast and not like a human so he gets my voice.

[SuperSoldier985]

I'm starting to get a feeling that even though we've seen a lot out of Havok and Banshee, Beast is gonna steal this movie...I dunno.

[Cheshire1996]

Kelsey Grammar did an amazing job as Beast, he pulled off the character to perfection. I'm trying to wait until First Class comes out until I decide which I prefer but honestly I think it'll come down to the way the actor's portray the character rather than on looks. Besides it'll be interesting to see Beast go through some serious character development during his younger years.

[Deaths Head II]

Grammar was a way better casting choice but the design of Hoult's Beast is way better. I was not a fan of the wookie chest and arms.

[Glutton]

yeah visually the XMFC Beast is much better
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9948/beastsn.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/beastsn.jpg/)[/URL]
As for acting we shall see.I really liked Grammers performance.It's gonna be hard to beat that

[SuperSoldier985]

Beast ultimately goes on to be the one to "take out" Magneto over 35 years later...I hope they give him some pretty cool scenes.

[Wefflehouse]

yeah visually the XMFC Beast is much better
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9948/beastsn.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/beastsn.jpg/)[/URL]
As for acting we shall see.I really liked Grammers performance.It's gonna be hard to beat that

Honestly, it wouldn't take much to beat it. Beast was one of the only good things in X3. That doesn't put the performance on some great level by any means. Grammer's voice was made for Beast and that was counted on through the film. I wasn't wholly impressed performance-wise. But maybe that's me.

[EnDz0n3]

So do we know if Hoult has humungous feet in this pre-blue and fur? I thought I read that somewhere.

[SuperSoldier985]

His feet look pretty large in the short clip of him flipping in the air, but it's hard to tell...

[PyroChamber]

yeah visually the XMFC Beast is much better
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9948/beastsn.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/beastsn.jpg/)[/URL]
As for acting we shall see.I really liked Grammers performance.It's gonna be hard to beat thatMaybe it's me, but it's almost like looking at Classic Beast and Cat Beast.

[psylockolussus]

X3 Beast, he looked spectacular

XFC Beast looks meh

[SuperSoldier985]

O RLY? :p

[lastairbender]

Love the recent pics of Nicholas Beast from Empire and New posters... Thats the way i would do it (dont like the claws, seems like plastic..:))

[lastairbender]

Grammers look always looked like a man with blue paint, not animal enought. has to feel like a beast like but inteligent creature..

[Deaths Head II]

Grammers look always looked like a man with blue paint, not animal enought. has to feel like a beast like but inteligent creature..

I agree. That's why I was never that fond of the makeup job. The only thing that made X3 Beast remarkable was the casting choice. His actual mannerisms and appearance weren't that convincing.

[insane polaris]

Seeing both Beasts next to each other, it really heightens how unimaginative they were with X3 Beast.

[Hellion]

I enjoyed Grammar...agreed he was one of the few bright spots in the film...

...I originally wasn't too big on Hoult's Beast, but its grown on me...

...I more happy that we're getting/got two takes of two interpretations of the character...

[PyroChamber]

I just hope they don't do anything to his voice.

[SuperSoldier985]

Like what?

[Matt Mortem]

Like what?

make it all gravely and growly?

[bubbadoom]

I like them both.
The XMFC Beast is about the best that the "cat" Beast can look, anything closer to the crap that's in the comics, and it would be laughed off the screen.
The X3 Beast is based upon the classic blue Beast, and I thought they did a good job with that. Maybe the hair could have been a little different to show off the pointed ears beneath, and I would have like to see the classic hair style, but the producers shot that down [looked too much like Wolverine!]. Grammer is completely covered in prosthetics, but he still show through.

[Ultra Lantern]

I liked Kelsey Grammer's Beast.

[henzINNIT]

Beast looks like a shoddy puppet in First Class, it's terrible. Needs to be fixed in a sequel.

[Superhero 101]

yeah i hope he is more like X3 Beast i liked that look better

[Mako]

While I prefer the First Class look both have flaws in their designs and have been poorly executed in terms of movement.

[EnDz0n3]

Hoult's first reveal as furry Beast in the hangar was laughably bad, I thought. They could have, at least, trimmed the protruding hair in the neck (and back of neck) area.

[PyroChamber]

Hoult's first reveal as furry Beast in the hangar was laughably bad, I thought. They could have, at least, trimmed the protruding hair in the neck (and back of neck) area.I think his look came about mostly because Vaughn didn't like how Beast looked in X3, he thought it looked more like hair than fur.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I actually prefer Hoult's Beast, now I didnt like X3, but Grammar's Beast was a shining light in it, BUT, he just looked like a blue hairy man for me, Hoult's looks like a BEAST. I preferred the fighting style of Hoult's when he was in action as well, Grammar's Beast constantly looked like he was on wires while fighting, Hoult's Beast seemed more natural and feral, which I loved. Hoult's Beast does look a bit off at times in FC, but overall I loved his look.

[WolfCypher]

Kelsey Grammer I was skeptical about but he nailed it big time.

[akfj]

I think the make-up job on Hoult looks better, but Grammer totally embodies Beast's personality, so I had to go with him.

[MilkmanDan]

I think the make-up job on Hoult looks better, but Grammer totally embodies Beast's personality, so I had to go with him.I was slightly disappointed by Grammer's Beast. They emphasiced Hank's intellectual side too much over his sense of humor. Beast has always been one of the funniest X-Men. Of course, since Morrison's run, he has been a bit more somber in comics as well.

[akfj]

It seems like they gave all of the humor to Wolverine, just like they gave him all of the leadership skills. :doh:

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Beast looks like a shoddy puppet in First Class, it's terrible. Needs to be fixed in a sequel.I wasn't a fan of the look either.

[Godzilla2000]

I like to think of Beast Prime as the less mutated version of the Feral Beast in First Class. Hank McCoy is a genius so I wager he has been working on trying to reverse the effects of the failed serum as much as possible hence the less feral look of Kelset Grammer's Beast.

P.S. Still quite disappointed that Beast can't be an Avenger because of that whole movie rights thing. :(

[OsGom]

I think both captured Beast well at various points in the characters evolution. In FC I thought they captured his nerdiness but also his distain for his physical mutation.

X3 Beast was not bad for the mature and world weathered Hank. His encounter with Leech was kind of moving.

As for the look, First Class hands down. X3 was a little too Dr. Seuss for me.

[Optimus_Prime_]

Nicholas Hoult portrayed a much more complete character. Kelsey Grammer is almost doing an impersonation. Completely lacked the depth of Hoult's Beast.

[Godzilla2000]

Nicholas Hoult portrayed a much more complete character. Kelsey Grammer is almost doing an impersonation. Completely lacked the depth of Hoult's Beast.

I betcha if they continue with the X-Men movies in modern times they can change that and give him more depth. Don't blame Kelsey for what the writer(s) should have done. I think First Class opens up the door to better written movies for future post X3 movies to be better written.

[roach]

i loved Kelsey as Beast...it was one of those inspired castings...like the minute you hear it you agree with it...like when Patrick Stewart was cast as Xavier.

I just didn't like the hands for feet on the Hoult version

[Hugebear]

I was watching the X3 on tv a few weeks ago and saw the scene where Beast calls Wolverine an animal and Wolverine say “Looks who talking”. I waited for Beast to say something smart back to him, being that he is smarter. But he didn’t and that felt weird.

[Spider-Fan83]

in an extended cut of that scene, Beast actually growls at him, Which seemed way more out of character, so, at least they left that out of the final cut

[demitri_vampiro]

they both looked like a man in a beast suit. they moved just like a normal human and had normal proportions, whereas real beast should have longer arms than normal human.
the best way is to make him a cg character. that way he can look and move like a beast.

[EnDz0n3]

They gave a shout out to Kelsey Grammer's Beast on Saturday Night Live. It's very sneakily done. LOL

[Shadowlord X]

The cat-beast in XM:FC is one of the few faults of the film for me. Didn't think it was well done. Looked like it was from Sesame street.

[MilkmanDan]

I think both captured Beast well at various points in the characters evolution. In FC I thought they captured his nerdiness but also his distain for his physical mutation.
I didn't really like his nerdiness. Hank has always been a fun, outgoing, confident guy. The way he was portrayed in FC seemed to be based more on a stereotype of a smart teenager who's into science rather than the character's actual personality in the comics. Hoult did a good job, and I liked the character, but half the time I felt he looked and acted more like young Scott Summers.

[marvelrobbins]

Having looked at pics of both classic Beast and Cat Beast with pics of Beast In First
Class he defently looks more like classic Beast than cat Beast.Not as perfectly like classic beast for some but certenly more than the cat Beast In present comics.

[Optimus_Prime_]

i loved Kelsey as Beast...it was one of those inspired castings...like the minute you hear it you agree with it...like when Patrick Stewart was cast as Xavier.

Personally I found it bland and uninspired. Kind of obvious. You could say Patrick Stewart is not much different, although Patrick Stewart, in my opinion is a much better actor and had a lot more to work with (in terms of writing). Fraiser is very similar to Beast, so I don't dislike the casting but Kelsey Grammer comes off a tad like a character actor in X3. Like they paid him to show up and do Fraiser, except in a Muppet Costume. He reminded me of the cartoon version, good, but lacked depth and lacked true character.

Honestly, this is one of those persistent problems they've had since the beginning. It became especially pronounced when they killed Cyclops. As much of a jerk as Cyclops can be there is a lot of dramatic potential to be found in his personal friendships with Beast, Iceman and Angel. Wolverine doesn't act as the glue for those guys since he's typically doing the loner thing. Cyclops provides a much better anchor for those characters because he's more believeable as a confidant.

[EnDz0n3]

The cat-beast in XM:FC is one of the few faults of the film for me. Didn't think it was well done. Looked like it was from Sesame street.

I very much agree with this. I feel that Matthew Vaughn needs a second set of eyeballs to tell him when he's verging on cheese-ball territory. And there was a lot of cheese in First Class. It's been said that Singer pretty much was a hands-off Producer. I hope for this next one (Singer is producer for the next one right?) he becomes more involved.

[SpitCurl]

I really didn't care for cat-eyed Beast in First Class.

Kelsey's make-up wasn't perfect, but I felt like I was looking at Beast, for the most part. The one thing I'd have done is give him an appliance to wear for the upper-lip/nose area so that it's more creature-like instead of just a man's nose and mouth. Otherwise, I think he looked great, and I liked the color -- verses First Class's washed-out, sky-blue.

I also didn't care for Nick Hoult's interpretation, so that may add to my dislike for his appearance, but... I basically disliked it from the first promo image. I felt like the insecure teen angle wasn't the best choice. An erudite, wise-cracking Beast is the way to go.

[roach]

Beast upper-lip/nose area was just a man's nose and mouth before his secondary mutation cut in

[roach]

nose is pretty normal

[Matt Mortem]

I really didn't care for cat-eyed Beast in First Class.

Kelsey's make-up wasn't perfect, but I felt like I was looking at Beast, for the most part. The one thing I'd have done is give him an appliance to wear for the upper-lip/nose area so that it's more creature-like instead of just a man's nose and mouth. Otherwise, I think he looked great, and I liked the color -- verses First Class's washed-out, sky-blue.

I also didn't care for Nick Hoult's interpretation, so that may add to my dislike for his appearance, but... I basically disliked it from the first promo image. I felt like the insecure teen angle wasn't the best choice. An erudite, wise-cracking Beast is the way to go.

I agree with you there. While I didn't mind the look of Beast in First Class, the characterization left me somewhat wanting. Could have been much better.

[Robin91939]

Kelsey's Beast is almost pitch perfect. It's a shame the make-up and movie couldn't have been better for him. He is truly a perfect actor for the part.

Hoult did a GREAT job, was in a better film and had more to do as an actor. But, yes, the Beast from the original, actually, ALL the animated series have skewed more toward the way Kelsey portrayed him, and that's "my" Beast.

-R

[Savage]

Much prefer the new version. Beast looks friggin' vicious in First Class. I liked him in Last Stand but something about cat-like Beast that even in the comics appeals to me more. Plus the makeup was miles better than the "just pour some paint on him" look. I liked that it was even a little gray as a nod to Beast's original transformation.

[Leenie]

I think Beast was done well in both movies, both in terms of character and makeup. If I had to pick one look, though ... I think I'd go with First Class Beast.

And, I just have to point this out: With all the problems that X3 had, the movie at least had Kelsey Friggin' Grammer as Beast. 'Nuff said. :)

[Hellion]

I think Beast was done well in both movies, both in terms of character and makeup.

And, I just have to point this out: With all the problems that X3 had, the movie at least had Kelsey Friggin' Grammer as Beast. 'Nuff said. :)


I agree with your post but took out the one part I don't...I can't choose between the two, I enjoyed both...can't choose between them.

[psylockolussus]

Kelsey Grammar did a good job for the role and Beast was the best new character in X3. Like imagine if X3 was a great film, everybody would have praised him so much.

[MoPlaYa]

They gave a shout out to Kelsey Grammer's Beast on Saturday Night Live. It's very sneakily done. LOL

How? What did they say?

[Hawkingbird]

They did the two looks purposefully. I know in this case it's in reverse, but his looks do change from Beast to Cat.

[Iceman]

I think both actors did great as Beast but neither of them were given good enough looks for such a great character by the X-crew. Kelsey Grammer is playing definitive Beast so he is the master while Hoult it the pupil in training. My favourite comic look for Beast is Beast Beast (Ape Beast) over Cat Beast but Grammer's Beast, while looking ok when wearing a business suit, looked way below par in action scenes. Also he didn't look very beastly, more like a blue guy with claws but human beard and hair. I'm sure they can improve that look a lot.

[OnTheAir]

Hoult was good, but Kelsey Grammer was perfect casting, in my opinion. His portrayal of Beast was a definite highlight for me in a lackluster film.

[Angamb]

I missed a scene in X3 where they would have showed Beast in the lab, as a doctor, in his lab coat.

Thats the Beast I wanted to see in the theatre. And doing a few more acrobatics, to show the contrast between a really smart mutant but with a beastly look and moving like an acrobat, with one or two funny lines, in a smart way.

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Kelsey Grammer's performance was one of the only good things about X3. i thought it was perfect casting.

[X-Maniac]

Kelsey Grammer was brilliant as Beast.

Perhaps we will see First Class Beast opt to try to change the way humanity sees mutants, by deciding on a career in politics.

Knowing that mankind isn't ready for a blue furry mutant in government, he invents (or is is given) an image inducer to use until he feels mankind is ready to accept more obvious mutants in high-profile public positions. That would explain the X2 scene.

[roach]

i just remember the scene in first class when he first walks out all blue and furry and it reminded me of Teen Wolf for some reason

[MarvelKnight]

I am a fan of Kelsey Grammer's Beast. Hoult was just ok to me.

[Snikt]

I enjoyed both, but I found the Beast make-up for First Class seemed very limiting and restrictive. Seemed like Hoult had a lot of trouble emoting.

When I first saw the make-up for Grammer, I wasn't too enthusiastic. However, when I saw him in motion and heard his voice...I was thrilled!!! Thought it was perfect casting.

Then when I saw Hoult's Beast in photos, I thought it was pretty cool. But then when I saw First Class, it seemed like they used two different make-ups. And i wasn't too thrilled with his make-up in motion.

Overall, I enjoy both; but prefer Grammer's.

[Project862006]

do wonder what ben walker would of been like beast since he was originally beast till fox chose to recast due to his age

[henzINNIT]

do wonder what ben walker would of been like beast since he was originally beast till fox chose to recast due to his age

I haven't seen him in action, but he certainly looks the part.

The longer I sit with it, the less I like Hoult's Beast. I didn't like the character pre-transformation, and he looked damn awful after. Grammar's Beast was perfect to me in look and performance and it's tragic that he wasn't in a watchable film.

[Art Damage]

Yikes, Beast looked horrible in First Class. The CGI where he grabs Fassbender's throat looked god awful.

[psylockolussus]

Hopefully they'll improve his look for the 2014 X-Men movie.

[Spuzz]

Actually enjoyed Grammar's Beast a lot but hated the movie so.....XD

[SpideyFan866]

I like the way the teeth were done on Grammar's more than Hoults.

Hoult's teeth were made to bulky, unfit for the already have makeup applications, and forced them to have to do the obvious redub of his lines, because he couldnt speak properly with them.

[Great Mind(s)]

Hoult didn't sound right when he was under the make-up. A little too much like the little kid monkey from Planet of the Apes, with a perfectly clean normal voice that just didn't fit. He was good and all but Grammer was to Hank McCoy as Ledger was to Joker. He saved that movie for me and makes me want to rewatch it despite it's 100 flaws.
To be honest, there's many alternate scenes that if were replaced and/or added to the final film would have been so so so much better.

[Mulholland '49]

They both weren't that all that great. Kelsey Grammar's Beast looked pretty much human. He didn't even really have sharp claws on his hands or feet if I recall. Fangs weren't big enough either. Hoult Beast just looked very bizzare

[marcvader]

They definitely need to do a better job next go around.

[The Guard]

Here's hoping for Dark Kelsey Grammar Beast in DOFP.

[Duran Man]

Definitely Kelsey Grammer's Beast. I don't care much for the blue kitty cat.

[X-Maniac]

They definitely need to do a better job next go around.

They might rely on motion-capture and CGI, considering how the technology has improved as shown by Fox's Rise of the Planet of the Apes.

That technique should also be used for The Thing in the next Fantastic Four, rather than a fake-looking body suit.

[LibidoLoca]

I'm Kelsey Grammer's *****, so I can't answer this fairly, but you know... Kelsey.

[Spuzz]

I liked the FC Beast a lot on second viewing recently but whenever he open mouth-smiled as Beast it was very stupid looking. Only real complaint. :P

[pr0xyt0xin]

I hated his face every time I saw it. Coming from a huge fan of Beast in both the comics and the cartoons.

http://www.cultureblues.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/beast-first-class-trailer.jpg
http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/Beast%20Hoult%20First%20Class.jpg
http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/116/1168481/x-men-first-class-20110518022644141.jpg

[Matt Mortem]

They should have toned down FC's Beast's teeth to allow for better speech and annunciation.

[YoungPrime]

Neither! FOX is comic book poison!

[ThePowerCosmic]

Kelsey Grammar's Beast.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Kelsey Grammar did a good job for the role and Beast was the best new character in X3. Like imagine if X3 was a great film, everybody would have praised him so much.

Seriously. Beast was the best new character in X3, just like Nightcrawler was the best new one in X2.


I missed a scene in X3 where they would have showed Beast in the lab, as a doctor, in his lab coat.

Thats the Beast I wanted to see in the theatre. And doing a few more acrobatics, to show the contrast between a really smart mutant but with a beastly look and moving like an acrobat, with one or two funny lines, in a smart way.

I think Beast's acrobatics were handled better in X3 than they were in FC. I was expecting him to cut loose in FC but he ended up disappointing me.

[X-Maniac]

They should have toned down FC's Beast's teeth to allow for better speech and annunciation.

You mean enunciation, the act of pronouncing or articulating words so they are clear.

Annunciation is the act of announcing, or an announcement.

[747]

I thought Hoult's Beast looked unintentionally funny, I really liked the characterization though. Develop him more towards the classic Beast look in the sequel imo.

[X-Maniac]

I would love to see Grammer's Beast again. And perhaps some tweaking of the look of his and Hoult's Beasts so they look as if one really is an older version of the other.

[747]

Neither! FOX is comic book poison!

What a constructive and insightful post! :)

[Baneis8feettall]

Neither! FOX is comic book poison!

:doh:

[Project862006]

Neither! FOX is comic book poison!
:yay:must be killing you marvel wont get x men for maybe 10 more years at the earliest

[chaseter]

I would say 15 at the earliest. We will get FC3 or X4 and likely a third Wolvie solo movie before they call it quits.

[JP]

Why would they call it quits?

[marvelrobbins]

Fox Isn't going to give up on X-Men anytime soon.After days of future past there will be thrid film with first Class cast.Beyond that who knows what Is planned.New Mutants spinoff has been discussed.Possibly film directed by Bryan singer with cast members from Singer's films.A new version of deadpool.Possable trilogy set In 1980's set the first Class trilogy and Singer's films.

And the day will probally came when Fox will do an outright reboot.

[psylockolussus]

I would say 15 at the earliest. We will get FC3 or X4 and likely a third Wolvie solo movie before they call it quits.

I don't think FOX is gonna quit on making X-Men films. Look at Planet of the Apes, they have been making movies of it since the 1970s. They are gonna reboot X-Men if they put an the end to the current X-Men movie series.

[Project862006]

and the fact they have so many options in 5 x men films in 12 years we have had strictly 2 villians magneto and stryker lol

[Hawkingbird]

I think they'd reboot before they gave it away.

[ThePowerCosmic]

and the fact they have so many options in 5 x men films in 12 years we have had strictly 2 villians magneto and stryker lol

Sabertooth, Toad, Mystique, Pyro, Juggernaut, Sebastian Shaw, Riptide, Azazel, Phoenix, Emma Frost, etc.

We've had more than 2 villains.

[The Guard]

Don't forget Mr. Laurio...he was kind of a dick.

[Project862006]

Sabertooth, Toad, Mystique, Pyro, Juggernaut, Sebastian Shaw, Riptide, Azazel, Phoenix, Emma Frost, etc.

We've had more than 2 villains.
talking main villians 99% of those outside of shaw were side characters and majority were lackey's

[ThePowerCosmic]

talking main villians 99% of those outside of shaw were side characters and majority were lackey's

I mean yeah, but everyone mentioned have been straight up X-Men villains from the comics. Sure we haven't seen Apocalypse, Mister Sinister, Shadow King, etc. but we have had a lot of notorious X-Men villains in the movies.

That's like saying Metallo wouldn't count because he's mostly a lackey of Luthor. Lackey or not, he's still a notable Superman villain.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Don't forget Mr. Laurio...he was kind of a dick.

If we're including him we might as well include the prison truck guard from The Last Stand. :o

"Keep it up and I'll spray you in the face, *****!"

[X-Maniac]

Yes, we've had more than two villains...though not much more lol

X1: Magneto (+ henchmen Toad, Mystique, Sabretooth), Senator Kelly

X2: Stryker (+ henchmen Deathstryke), Magneto (+Mystique, Pyro)

X3: Magneto (+ henchmen/army including Juggernaut, Multiple Man, Callisto, Psylocke/Kwannon, Quill, Arclight, Spyke), Dark Phoenix, (also: maybe Government, Worthington snr?)

XMO Wolverine: Stryker (+ Weapon XI, Sabretooth)

X-Men First Class: Sebastian Shaw/Hellfire Club (Emma, Riptide, Angel, Azazel)

No sign yet of Sinister, Apocalypse, Proteus, Arcade, Alpha Flight (though they could be saved for another Wolverine movie), Legion, Mesmero, Cassandra Nova, Moses Magnum, Shadow King, Living Monolith, Imperial Guard, Deathbird, D'Spayre, Selene and many more I will no doubt remember later when I have chance to think!

Other villains in the early comics include Grotesk, Locust, Unus. We can forget Vanisher the teleporter as he was part of inspiration for including Azazel.

[Duran Man]

The Locust is probably my favourite of the early, obscure X-Men villains. I was surprised by how much I liked him and the story.

[X-Maniac]

The Locust is probably my favourite of the early, obscure X-Men villains. I was surprised by how much I liked him and the story.

At least the ability to control insects is something different. Not so keen on the giant ones he created (if I remember correctly).

[JP]

Avalanche and Destiny are on Mystique's brotherhood in the DoFP comic. I'm sure for the film, Emma will take Destiny's place.

[747]

One of the few things I didn't really like in First Class, the design/look and make-up/effects of Beast. Classic design all the way for me and Grammer's Beast looked great.

[X-Maniac]

One of the few things I didn't really like in First Class, the design/look and make-up/effects of Beast. Classic design all the way for me and Grammer's Beast looked great.

I wonder if we could see both versions of Beast?

[Angamb]

I think they havent nailed Beast look yet.

First Class was more beastly, and X3 more human/smart mutant. A mix of both would be the perfect make-up, Id say.

I like 90's show look. with that wild hair and big body

[marcvader]

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo110/bastardodcadena/Marvel/Comic%20o%20Serie/DarkBeast2.jpg

[Dr Tactics]

I think they'd reboot before they gave it away.

As long as they (Fox) make good movies and in turn make money(due to people seeing it) they'll continue to make movies I feel indefinitely. If fans really felt that strongly about the X-Men returning to Marvel we just won't go see, not support and sabotage any positive mention similar to XO-W as a united unit They'd no longer would feel the X-Men were profitable and stop making movies and they'd revert in 7 or so years. But, here is the downside of that. Unlike Spider-Man,The Fantastic Four and the soon to be reverted Daredevil, It'll be near impossible through Phase 1,2 and even three to explain where mutants were when the Chitauri attacked NY,when the Lizard took over the Brooklyn Bridge/Eastside of Manhattan (which S.H.E.I.L.D 's non presence could be explained) and Thanos impending threat to the Earth. So you would have to reboot the whole Marvel universe to include super powered Mutants. So, I strongly support FOX holding on the The X-Men, refute all mentions of the X-Men to be included in the MCU continuity and pray they do it right COSTUMES AND ALL..

[747]

I think they havent nailed Beast look yet.

First Class was more beastly, and X3 more human/smart mutant. A mix of both would be the perfect make-up, Id say.

I like 90's show look. with that wild hair and big body

The 90s show Beast is awesome/perfect in every way, from look to voice to characterization.

[psylockolussus]

I think they havent nailed Beast look yet.

First Class was more beastly, and X3 more human/smart mutant. A mix of both would be the perfect make-up, Id say.

I like 90's show look. with that wild hair and big body

Yeah. I didn't really like Beast's look on Astonishing X-Men and I hated it when they made him look like a cat.

The 90s look is so much better.

[X-Maniac]

The 90s show Beast is awesome/perfect in every way, from look to voice to characterization.

So much in that show is good. Magneto's European accent is great (though I don't mind the McKellen voice nor the Fassbender voice as long as he doesn't let the Irish accent creep in!). I also love Magneto's power displays - the forcefield spheres, etc.

However, Storm's voice and elemental commands ('winds, hear my cry') drive me nuts.

[747]

So much in that show is good. Magneto's European accent is great (though I don't mind the McKellen voice nor the Fassbender voice as long as he doesn't let the Irish accent creep in!). I also love Magneto's power displays - the forcefield spheres, etc.

However, Storm's voice and elemental commands ('winds, hear my cry') drive me nuts.

Storm is a cool character, but has never been one of my personal favorites, so her extreme over-the-topness in the 90s cartoons never bothered me that much. It's very much her character taken to the edge, like many others in a/the cartoon. It doesn't work perfectly on Ororo, but at least she takes her place unlike Halle Berry's Storm. A middle-ground between cartoon Storm and live-action Storm would be great.

I love that episode when Rogue complains about one of Storm's melodramatic speeches. :hehe:

[GRangerPrimeNYC]

As long as they (Fox) make good movies and in turn make money(due to people seeing it) they'll continue to make movies I feel indefinitely. If fans really felt that strongly about the X-Men returning to Marvel we just won't go see, not support and sabotage any positive mention similar to XO-W as a united unit They'd no longer would feel the X-Men were profitable and stop making movies and they'd revert in 7 or so years. But, here is the downside of that. Unlike Spider-Man,The Fantastic Four and the soon to be reverted Daredevil, It'll be near impossible through Phase 1,2 and even three to explain where mutants were when the Chitauri attacked NY,when the Lizard took over the Brooklyn Bridge/Eastside of Manhattan (which S.H.E.I.L.D 's non presence could be explained) and Thanos impending threat to the Earth. So you would have to reboot the whole Marvel universe to include super powered Mutants. So, I strongly support FOX holding on the The X-Men, refute all mentions of the X-Men to be included in the MCU continuity and pray they do it right COSTUMES AND ALL..

Easy, they can say the mutant population is only in the hundreds, not the millions and that the X-Men didn't arrive to those events, since why do they have to?

[Dr Tactics]

Easy, they can say the mutant population is only in the hundreds, not the millions and that the X-Men didn't arrive to those events, since why do they have to?

Can't buy that because the threat that S.H.E.I.L.D is worried in he MCU about is mostly from global cosmic threats. If there were a Mutant population(X-Genes) at the same time they'd already be on guard(and actively studying) based on the earthly threat posed by possible rouge super-powered mutants. They're not mentioned because they don't exist in that world nor can they at this point with out a major retcon or reboot(s). It would be a real difficult sale and IMO not worth it.

But, This is the wrong forum to debate this point..

[Great Mind(s)]

This is why I always believed mutants and the X-Men should be in their OWN separate universe. The mutant concept is really shattered when you have Spider-Man and superheroes and other things. Thank god Marvel doesn't have the rights. Not that I don't love Marvel and The Avengers and all the movies too, I do!

[X-Maniac]

It's a pointless debate anyway because it won't happen.

The latest news of Mark Millar being hired to offer creative input on X-Men and Fantastic Four is a big sign that Fox is not letting go of anything and intends to (finally) map out these franchises properly and not stray too far from the source material.

Good films + cohesive continuity/structure + comic book respect = a win-win situation

[Dr Tactics]

It's a pointless debate anyway because it won't happen.

The latest news of Mark Millar being hired to offer creative input on X-Men and Fantastic Four is a big sign that Fox is not letting go of anything and intends to (finally) map out these franchises properly and not stray too far from the source material.

Good films + cohesive continuity/structure + comic book respect = a win-win situation

Like the signs they had intentions to keep DD when they hired Joe Carnahan for Daredevil reboot. Fox does a lot of posturing sometimes you gotta admit. And, you (all) know like I know that they need to hand over the FF to the MCU. Fox can profit more by Marketing and distributing and letting Marvel handles the production They know what the Marvel money maker for Fox is and it's all in the Mutants and not the Cosmic.. Marvel Studio's got that cornered

That should be Mark Millar's first advice to them.. Let them go.. It's doing nothing for them to play keep away and will do nothing for them for the long term.

[X-Maniac]

Like the signs they had intentions to keep DD when they hired Joe Carnahan for Daredevil reboot. Fox does a lot of posturing sometimes you gotta admit. And, you (all) know like I know that they need to hand over the FF to the MCU. Fox can profit more by Marketing and distributing and letting Marvel handles the production They know what the Marvel money maker for Fox is and it's all in the Mutants and not the Cosmic.. Marvel Studio's got that cornered

That should be Mark Millar's first advice to them.. Let them go.. It's doing nothing for them to play keep away and will do nothing for them for the long term.

All studios do their fair share of posturing. But at least that posturing came in the form of an official press release not some rumour on a comic site. It probably seems more like posturing because it was done in such a formal fashion.

I'd be interested to hear if they did actually did allow the rights to lapse on Daredevil in the end. He appears in some of Millar's Ultimate X-Men titles.

I don't think they will let go of Fantastic Four. Millar wrote Ultimate Fantastic Four for a start. And there's potential with Dr Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer (only Surfer was done well the first time around!) - plus Sue and Reed's son Franklin Richards is a mutant who appears in DoFP.

Interestingly, in Ultimate Fantastic Four they don't get their powers on a space mission but instead from the parallel universe of the Negative Zone, so we can expect that to feature in the reboot.

You're right that the X-Men is more than enough to deal with (team movies plus spin-offs for Wolverine, Deadpool, etc). But I think Fox must have some grand plan in mind if they want to hold on to the rights, which it seems they do judging from that press release.

I wonder also if Sony will let go of Ghost Rider after the abomination of the last movie.

[marvelrobbins]

Fox Isn't just going to hand over any property to another studio to make money off of.Neither Disney nor Fox cares too much about Daredevil.Disney was going to let fox keep
Daredevil In exchange for Galactus and Silver surfer.

As I have said before Marvel studios primary focus Is on Avengers related films.With Fox FF could be summer 2015 tentpole at disney who knows when It would be made.How long has Marvel been promsing Ant-man? edgar wright Is doing another film before that.
Ant-Man Isn't coming before the Avengers sequel.

I am not exactly wild about Mark Millar as consulant on fox marvel films since his work for marvel has almost exclusivly been In Ultimate Universe.

We may see some hint of FF in DOFP future scenes.

[Dr Tactics]

I'd be interested to hear if they did actually did allow the rights to lapse on Daredevil in the end. He appears in some of Millar's Ultimate X-Men titles.

They didn't allow anything. Time just ran out and they didn't even have a director to start principle photography before Oct. But, more interesting is the rumor that Marvel had already gave extensions to get DD in production which brings to question how long in between movies do they have to get the movies in front on cameras cause there was 7 years between Elektra and now.

I don't think they will let go of Fantastic Four. Millar wrote Ultimate Fantastic Four for a start. And there's potential with Dr Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer (only Surfer was done well the first time around!) - plus Sue and Reed's son Franklin Richards is a mutant who appears in DoFP.

The question before them, is there a demand for the Fantastic Four without the help of the demand garnered by the MCU as a whole? I've always just said that launching this reboot independent of what Marvel/Disney is doing is a big financial risk. Marvel is in a 1.5 Billion position to take a risk ala GOTG but The Fantastic Four reboot is being preceded by Tim Story's FF disappointments. The Fanboys are about the respectful comicbook and character conversion while the GA is all about the Hype. Marvels MCU has all the hype momentum now with IM3 next year and the cosmic entities dealing with Thanos has that market cornered. So it's "get down or be put down" at this point


You're right that the X-Men is more than enough to deal with (team movies plus spin-offs for Wolverine, Deadpool, etc). But I think Fox must have some grand plan in mind if they want to hold on to the rights, which it seems they do judging from that press release.


They very well have a grand plan. The wisdom behind that plan is still a very big question mark which is typical with Fox's Marvel properties and how they're presented to the public

[X-Maniac]

They didn't allow anything. Time just ran out and they didn't even have a director to start principle photography before Oct.

No, they did have a director (Carnahan) but they would not feasibly have been able to get the film cast and into production by the deadline. We don't know if any other deals have been done to extend it, we haven't yet heard anything for definite. So we can assume that they ALLOWED the rights to lapse rather than rush something together.

But, more interesting is the rumor that Marvel had already gave extensions to get DD in production which brings to question how long in between movies do they have to get the movies in front on cameras cause there was 7 years between Elektra and now.

Who knows what the contracts say?! No one except the parties involved. Neither Marvel nor Fox has been sharing that information publicly.

The question before them, is there a demand for the Fantastic Four without the help of the demand garnered by the MCU as a whole? I've always just said that launching this reboot independent of what Marvel/Disney is doing is a big financial risk. Marvel is in a 1.5 Billion position to take a risk ala GOTG but The Fantastic Four reboot is being preceded by Tim Story's FF disappointments. The Fanboys are about the respectful comicbook and character conversion while the GA is all about the Hype. Marvels MCU has all the hype momentum now with IM3 next year and the cosmic entities dealing with Thanos has that market cornered. So it's "get down or be put down" at this point

Tim Story's films were many years ago. The mainstream viewers have forgotten about them for the most part. I never heard bad words about them from colleagues at the time (I even heard a co-worker say recently they preferred FF to what DC did with Green Lantern) but they weren't exactly fantastically memorable either. Sort of what fanboys and the internet illiterati ® would call 'meh'

They very well have a grand plan. The wisdom behind that plan is still a very big question mark which is typical with Fox's Marvel properties and how they're presented to the public

They're under no obligation to reveal that plan either, so it may well remain a question mark. But they appear to have one, hence that press release. Rothman has gone, Millar has arrived - clearly they are up to something! Whereas Marvel is fairly transparent about its production slate (it's all part of the endlessssssss hype and keeping things in the public consciousness, though I confess i'm not feeling excited about any of phase 2 to be honest), other studios aren't.

Let's see what happens.

[Dr Tactics]

They're under no obligation to reveal that plan either, so it may well remain a question mark. But they appear to have one, hence that press release. Rothman has gone, Millar has arrived - clearly they are up to something! Whereas Marvel is fairly transparent about its production slate (it's all part of the endlessssssss hype and keeping things in the public consciousness, though I confess i'm not feeling excited about any of phase 2 to be honest), other studios aren't.

Let's see what happens.
That "not feeling excited" feeling you shared reminded me of how not excited I felt about TF-DOTM. But due to the hype It made a $%!& load of Box Office money off of HYPE alone. Needless to say I was dumbfounded.. Anywho, I say this because regardless of the interest level we may feel about Phase 2, opening weekend for IM3 is gonna be a Madhouse. And I predict the same for Wolverine and Thor (And Wolverine in spite of XMO:W cause XM-FC breathed new life into the franchise). They might have a great thought plan but when you put into motion the 7 year window before rights revert they got to be shooting by the end of next year for a 2015 release next (or VS however you wanna look at it) to AVATAR 2 (and 3 i think) Avengers 2 (Hit TV show in tow by then too), and the Hunger Games sequel

Wisdom might later dictate the direction their Grand Plans. With their equally grand announcements they seem to be "Shooting First and Aiming Later"

We shall see...

[X-Maniac]

That "not feeling excited" feeling you shared reminded me of how not excited I felt about TF-DOTM. But due to the hype It made a $%!& load of Box Office money off of HYPE alone. Needless to say I was dumbfounded.. Anywho, I say this because regardless of the interest level we may feel about Phase 2, opening weekend for IM3 is gonna be a Madhouse. And I predict the same for Wolverine and Thor (And Wolverine in spite of XMO:W cause XM-FC breathed new life into the franchise). They might have a great thought plan but when you put into motion the 7 year window before rights revert they got to be shooting by the end of next year for a 2015 release next (or VS however you wanna look at it) to AVATAR 2 (and 3 i think) Avengers 2 (Hit TV show in tow by then too), and the Hunger Games sequel

Wisdom might later dictate the direction their Grand Plans. With their equally grand announcements they seem to be "Shooting First and Aiming Later"

We shall see...

Oh the Phase 2 will definitely do well at the box office, providing they can overcome the challenge of explaining why they Avengers aren't constantly popping up to help each other in each other's movies.

At least Fox's new thinking will create a more coherent cinematic world. The previous one-film-at-a-time approach has ended up creating patchy continuity and, for audiences, an uncertainty about what is coming next. I'm all for Fox having an overall strategy and a bit of forward thinking; it's just a shame it's taken this long for them to get on board with that idea. It's something I've been pleading for on here for years and years and years.

The X-Men franchise has a lot going for it - some great casting and the best of all Marvel's villains (Magneto). Tom Hiddleston's Loki doesn't come anywhere near to McKellen/Fassbender's Magneto. People can relate more to a damaged human (and concentration camp survivor) than the theatrics of Asgardian alien Loki being 'burdened with glorious purpose'.

It's weird that several people I know at work who saw Avengers found it superficial and trivial and it didn't meet their expectations at all. This week, a guy in the office who bought the DVD (and had missed seeing it at the cinema) said he was bitterly disappointed. Even Whedon himself said it wasn't a great movie, just 'a great time'. I think that simplistic fun was part of what gave it broad appeal. Just like Transformers. Those sorts of popcorn flicks are easy for viewers of all ages to digest without needing to think too much, and easy for overseas, non-English-speaking audiences to understand and follow because it's all action and explosions. I wouldn't want X-Men to be like that. But I did like how Avengers embraced and celebrated its comic book roots.

[Dr Tactics]

Oh the Phase 2 will definitely do well at the box office, providing they can overcome the challenge of explaining why they Avengers aren't constantly popping up to help each other in each other's movies.

At least Fox's new thinking will create a more coherent cinematic world. The previous one-film-at-a-time approach has ended up creating patchy continuity and, for audiences, an uncertainty about what is coming next. I'm all for Fox having an overall strategy and a bit of forward thinking; it's just a shame it's taken this long for them to get on board with that idea. It's something I've been pleading for on here for years and years and years.

The X-Men franchise has a lot going for it - some great casting and the best of all Marvel's villains (Magneto). Tom Hiddleston's Loki doesn't come anywhere near to McKellen/Fassbender's Magneto. People can relate more to a damaged human (and concentration camp survivor) than the theatrics of Asgardian alien Loki being 'burdened with glorious purpose'.

It's weird that several people I know at work who saw Avengers found it superficial and trivial and it didn't meet their expectations at all. This week, a guy in the office who bought the DVD (and had missed seeing it at the cinema) said he was bitterly disappointed. Even Whedon himself said it wasn't a great movie, just 'a great time'. I think that simplistic fun was part of what gave it broad appeal. Just like Transformers. Those sorts of popcorn flicks are easy for viewers of all ages to digest without needing to think too much, and easy for overseas, non-English-speaking audiences to understand and follow because it's all action and explosions. I wouldn't want X-Men to be like that. But I did like how Avengers embraced and celebrated its comic book roots.

Strongly agree. I think the X-Men franchise will be a lot better with MM getting a little continuity. I only question their insistence on their vision about the Fantastic Four's independent universe outside the MCU and how even worse that they may attempt to shoe horn them into the X-Men universe as a spring board to a new franchise on the back of the X-Men universe when the FF has more in common with Marvel Studios the Avengers MCU.

[X-Maniac]

Strongly agree. I think the X-Men franchise will be a lot better with MM getting a little continuity. I only question their insistence on their vision about the Fantastic Four's independent universe outside the MCU and how even worse that they may attempt to shoe horn them into the X-Men universe as a spring board to a new franchise on the back of the X-Men universe when the FF has more in common with Marvel Studios the Avengers MCU.

I would imagine they would only cross over FF and X-Men in the long term, and even then it may only be minor. There was uncorroborated gossip at one point of Kelsey Grammer's Beast making a cameo in the second FF movie.

I agree there is no obvious/major common ground between the two teams, but there have been comic books where FF and X-Men have come together; Storm and Wolverine have also been FF members for short periods; and Franklin Richards is a mutant who was part of DoFP in particular. Not sure what they have in mind - maybe they don't know yet either, hence bringing in Mark Millar. Maybe they just want to hang on to the rights.

[Dr Tactics]

I would imagine they would only cross over FF and X-Men in the long term, and even then it may only be minor. There was uncorroborated gossip at one point of Kelsey Grammer's Beast making a cameo in the second FF movie.

Well they don't that long for the "Long Term" to get filming.. ROTSS came out in 2007. And Kelsey Grammer's Beast?? I thought it was a common thought they were retconning anything not X1 and X2...

I agree there is no obvious/major common ground between the two teams, but there have been comic books where FF and X-Men have come together; Storm and Wolverine have also been FF members for short periods; and Franklin Richards is a mutant who was part of DoFP in particular. Not sure what they have in mind - maybe they don't know yet either, hence bringing in Mark Millar. Maybe they just want to hang on to the rights.

Wolverine Yeah, with Hulk and Spider-Man & Ghost Rider which none are accessible to Fox. Furthering the point that without others in the MCU there's no real connecting fiber Between the X-Men team and The Fantastic Four

[JB-the-Hunter]

I think that simplistic fun was part of what gave it broad appeal. Just like Transformers. Those sorts of popcorn flicks are easy for viewers of all ages to digest without needing to think too much, and easy for overseas, non-English-speaking audiences to understand and follow because it's all action and explosions. I wouldn't want X-Men to be like that. But I did like how Avengers embraced and celebrated its comic book roots.
:doh:

I literally just got done watching The Avengers with my sisters and they were talking through the entire movie. It wasn't until the third act, which is where the true action started, that they shut their mouths. The one thing I noticed quite clearly while trying to drown out their yapping is that the first two acts of the movie are almost exclusively character development and set-up, with barely any action at all, and unlike Transformers, the set-up of the first two acts made the final battle sooo worth it, and even then the story is still advancing unlike Transformers. I severely don't understand what the hell people are talking about when they call the movie shallow, superficial, Michael Bay-esque or whatever. Like... seriously? No offense to you but did you even watch the movie? There are still things I'm just now realizing about the movie that I didn't notice before. It seems to me that people who dismiss the Avengers as just a popcorn flick only do so because they can't comprehend the fact that something with so much action can also have just as much depth to it. I could sit here all day and just talk to you about Black Widow's character arc, that should be a testament to how well written it is.

[BMM]

I think that might be more of a testament to your ability to talk than a testament to The Avengers. If the Avengers had just as much depth as it does action, it would be one of the deepest movies in the world... but it's not, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[X-Maniac]

Well they don't that long for the "Long Term" to get filming.. ROTSS came out in 2007.

Doesn't mean the crossover has to happen in the first film. I'd imagine the first couple of FF movies would be about the FF. The first one will be an origin story and introduction.

And Kelsey Grammer's Beast?? I thought it was a common thought they were retconning anything not X1 and X2...

I meant there were rumours of Grammer's Beast appearing in FF:ROTSS back in 2007.

As for the 'common thought' of retconning anything but X1 and X2, we simply don't know if that's true. DoFP has to exist in a future - and for all we know, it may be a future shortly after X-Men: The Last Stand. Just saying that at this point we don't know what they are ignoring/including.

Wolverine Yeah, with Hulk and Spider-Man & Ghost Rider which none are accessible to Fox. Furthering the point that without others in the MCU there's no real connecting fiber Between the X-Men team and The Fantastic Four.

As I said, who knows what they have in mind and what their reasoning is.

[X-Maniac]

:doh:

I literally just got done watching The Avengers with my sisters and they were talking through the entire movie. It wasn't until the third act, which is where the true action started, that they shut their mouths. The one thing I noticed quite clearly while trying to drown out their yapping is that the first two acts of the movie are almost exclusively character development and set-up, with barely any action at all, and unlike Transformers, the set-up of the first two acts made the final battle sooo worth it, and even then the story is still advancing unlike Transformers. I severely don't understand what the hell people are talking about when they call the movie shallow, superficial, Michael Bay-esque or whatever. Like... seriously? No offense to you but did you even watch the movie? There are still things I'm just now realizing about the movie that I didn't notice before. It seems to me that people who dismiss the Avengers as just a popcorn flick only do so because they can't comprehend the fact that something with so much action can also have just as much depth to it. I could sit here all day and just talk to you about Black Widow's character arc, that should be a testament to how well written it is.

Joss Whedon himself said 'it's not even a great movie, it's a great time', meaning it's little more than a fun piece of spectacle.

Widow had a hint of backstory but not really an 'arc' because it didn't change between the start and the end. Jeremy Renner complained about having no real character depth in the film because for most of it, he was Loki's pawn. Hulk revealed the secret of controlling the beast, but he never really learned anything as such. And Hiddleston's Loki is starting to bore me already because he is just a snarling pantomime villain who we cannot relate to, despite all Hiddleston's claims.

There are some good character moments but overall it's a comic book action flick which does a great job of celebrating the comic and little else. This isn't a film that makes you think, raises any great questions or themes or which touches the emotions, so let's be honest here.

[The Guard]

Agreed.

[JB-the-Hunter]

Joss Whedon himself said 'it's not even a great movie, it's a great time', meaning it's little more than a fun piece of spectacle.

Widow had a hint of backstory but not really an 'arc' because it didn't change between the start and the end. Jeremy Renner complained about having no real character depth in the film because for most of it, he was Loki's pawn. Hulk revealed the secret of controlling the beast, but he never really learned anything as such. And Hiddleston's Loki is starting to bore me already because he is just a snarling pantomime villain who we cannot relate to, despite all Hiddleston's claims.

There are some good character moments but overall it's a comic book action flick which does a great job of celebrating the comic and little else. This isn't a film that makes you think, raises any great questions or themes or which touches the emotions, so let's be honest here.
We're going to have to agree to disagree then, because I could write up a whole essay on the depth of The Avengers, but I don't feel like wasting all that time when it's not going to change your mind. And just to let you know, there's a difference between depth and being spoon-fed.

And Hiddleston's Loki is starting to bore me already because he is just a snarling pantomime villain who we cannot relate to, despite all Hiddleston's claims.
You're in the minority who think that... the very small minority.

[X-Maniac]

We're going to have to agree to disagree then, because I could write up a whole essay on the depth of The Avengers, but I don't feel like wasting all that time when it's not going to change your mind. And just to let you know, there's a difference between depth and being spoon-fed.


You're in the minority who think that... the very small minority.

Yep, there's no point turning this into an Avengers argument, especially in an X-Men thread and even more especially in one dedicated to the discussion of Beast!

[Dr Tactics]

Yep, there's no point turning this into an Avengers argument, especially in an X-Men thread and even more especially in one dedicated to the discussion of Beast!

Beast is an Avenger,technically.. He's just not licensed that way..

(Yeah, I know this is a movie thread but IJS)

[X-Maniac]

Beast is an Avenger,technically.. He's just not licensed that way..

(Yeah, I know this is a movie thread but IJS)

Fully aware of that. I have piles of Marvel Comics at home. But, still, I wouldn't want to derail this thread.

What I would like is to see the Kelsey Grammer version of Beast again. I watched the first three X-Men films again at the weekend and Grammer was just soooo good...

[Great Mind(s)]

Fully aware of that. I have piles of Marvel Comics at home. But, still, I wouldn't want to derail this thread.

What I would like is to see the Kelsey Grammer version of Beast again. I watched the first three X-Men films again at the weekend and Grammer was just soooo good...

Yes he stole that movie. Have you seen the Shakespeare deleted scene? :hrt:

[X-Maniac]

Yes he stole that movie. Have you seen the Shakespeare deleted scene? :hrt:

Yes indeed.

I wonder how they will handle all these returning and existing characters in a two-hour movie though! That's assuming we see many characters from the original trilogy in the future. Will people be content with brief glimpses before these characters are incinerated by Sentinels?

[Dr Tactics]

Yes indeed.

I wonder how they will handle all these returning and existing characters in a two-hour movie though! That's assuming we see many characters from the original trilogy in the future. Will people be content with brief glimpses before these characters are incinerated by Sentinels?

No way! Which is why it can't be a 2 hour movie and and they try to make it that this movie will be HORRIBLE!!! This is a epic event that can't be told in 2 hours. Has to be TDK length and split into almost between the past and the present/future and then the conclusion.

And
Fully aware of that. I have piles of Marvel Comics at home. But, still, I wouldn't want to derail this thread.

I'm sure you are, I'm just saying that as long as were talking about the Marvel universe as a whole were talking about Beast. Technically its all one universe. Its just not licensed that way. Plus when it comes to the X-Men's non-Continuity its so screwed up that even if they did bring back the original actors from X1-X3 they'd have to be established in the all new altered continuity created by XM-FC and the possible total retcon for XMO:W.It would be so much easier to just call First Class a reboot and let that be the end of it.. But Fox, as always like to be difficult to their own fault and self inflicted demise

[X-Maniac]

No way! Which is why it can't be a 2 hour movie and and they try to make it that this movie will be HORRIBLE!!! This is a epic event that can't be told in 2 hours. Has to be TDK length and split into almost between the past and the present/future and then the conclusion.

Unless, perhaps, we only see most of the returning original trilogy characters in the final scenes after the past is altered and a new timeline created. That new timeline could be the reason Cyclops and Jean are shown to still be alive, and serve to set up a new X4/X5.

I'm sure you are, I'm just saying that as long as were talking about the Marvel universe as a whole were talking about Beast. Technically its all one universe. Its just not licensed that way.

We have to forget that, because it isn't that way and I couldn't really see Beast popping up in the Avengers franchise as it stands at present. Marvel Studios isn't allowed to acknowledge mutants, nor even mention the word. So it's pointless thinking in terms of one universe, because it isn't one in cinematic terms. Spider-Man is elsewhere (along with Ghost Rider), and X-Men and Fantastic Four are elsewhere. As it stands, those are separate franchises.

Plus when it comes to the X-Men's non-Continuity its so screwed up that even if they did bring back the original actors from X1-X3 they'd have to be established in the all new altered continuity created by XM-FC and the possible total retcon for XMO:W.It would be so much easier to just call First Class a reboot and let that be the end of it.. But Fox, as always like to be difficult to their own fault and self inflicted demise

As I suggested above, perhaps the original actors appear as a result of an altered timeline.

It might have seemed more logical to declare First Class a reboot but...

a) they brought back Singer who has directed/produced the only solid and widely-praised X-movies so he was unlikely to disregard his own material

b) the general audience are still very much familiar with the existing trilogy, as can be seen by the enthusiasm to the news revealed/leaked by Patrick Stewart about returning cast members

c) the Wolverine franchise is still going on with the same actor so to reboot X-Men but keep the same Wolverine wouldn't really have worked.

[Dr Tactics]

Unless, perhaps, we only see most of the returning original trilogy characters in the final scenes after the past is altered and a new timeline created. That new timeline could be the reason Cyclops and Jean are shown to still be alive, and serve to set up a new X4/X5.

I guess..



We have to forget that, because it isn't that way and I couldn't really see Beast popping up in the Avengers franchise as it stands at present. Marvel Studios isn't allowed to acknowledge mutants, nor even mention the word. So it's pointless thinking in terms of one universe, because it isn't one in cinematic terms. Spider-Man is elsewhere (along with Ghost Rider), and X-Men and Fantastic Four are elsewhere. As it stands, those are separate franchises.

I can't!!! Hence why I think I may need therapy


It might have seemed more logical to declare First Class a reboot but...

a) they brought back Singer who has directed/produced the only solid and widely-praised X-movies so he was unlikely to disregard his own material

But it doesn't change the absolute mess. You already know the issues. IMO retcon one you need to recon them all. First Class wasn't meant to change the future but some how it did cause of EGO..

b) the general audience are still very much familiar with the existing trilogy, as can be seen by the enthusiasm to the news revealed/leaked by Patrick Stewart about returning cast members

c) the Wolverine franchise is still going on with the same actor so to reboot X-Men but keep the same Wolverine wouldn't really have worked.

Because of Blu ray and DVD They can also be as aware of the issues and now they realize that It matter hence the Mark Millar hiring (At least thats what their intentions should be) but he can't fix all that crap before First Class that was X-3 and XMO. They can do like TIH did. It was a loose reboot and they called it that. If they're disregarding them then say so. If it's a reboot say so. If it's a loose reboot say so. Don't piss on our head and tell us it's raining by just to say the we took liberties with the existing cannon but it a direct prequel to the franchise which The Last Stand is part of the franchise regardless of Vaughns ego. That is BS and disrespectful to our intelligence. Just disregard it. the audience will be cool with that. The Wolverine is sort of a reboot though its not a origin story. JUST SAY IT FOX!!! It's why I Can't stand them most times and haven't supported their Marvel Properties after The Last Stand

[X-Maniac]

But it doesn't change the absolute mess. You already know the issues. IMO retcon one you need to recon them all. First Class wasn't meant to change the future but some how it did cause of EGO..



Because of Blu ray and DVD They can also be as aware of the issues and now they realize that It matter hence the Mark Millar hiring (At least thats what their intentions should be) but he can't fix all that crap before First Class that was X-3 and XMO. They can do like TIH did. It was a loose reboot and they called it that. If they're disregarding them then say so. If it's a reboot say so. If it's a loose reboot say so. Don't piss on our head and tell us it's raining by just to say the we took liberties with the existing cannon but it a direct prequel to the franchise which The Last Stand is part of the franchise regardless of Vaughns ego. That is BS and disrespectful to our intelligence. Just disregard it. the audience will be cool with that. The Wolverine is sort of a reboot though its not a origin story. JUST SAY IT FOX!!! It's why I Can't stand them most times and haven't supported their Marvel Properties after The Last Stand

I think Days of Future Past will serve to reboot it, at least by allowing the franchise to move forwards without having to bear in mind X3 and XMO:W. But it won't be a full reboot in terms of all-new actors, it will just undo the bigger issues.

The studio is obviously aware of the continuity/timeline issues and hopefully they are now addressing them. Fingers crossed!

[TDK elbowstrike]

I think Beast in First class would fit in more with the Grinch and the Cat in the Hat from the live action Dr. Suess films better than he does with the x-men. Beast in last stand fit in more with the look of the other blue mutants in the original series like Mystique and Nightcrawler. He wouldnt look out of place next to these two mutants where as First Class Beast would look out of place standing next to other blue mutants in the series or anyone who wasnt from Jim Henson's workshop.

[747]

I don't mind the cat design of Beast at all, I just thought it wasn't that well executed in FC.

[The Infernal]

I though FC's Beast was fine enough, but I do prefer Kelsey's Beast. I don't think it's a big problem. You could just argue that movie Beast's mutations happen the other way around and rather than ending up more cat-like as in the comics.

[psylockolussus]

I don't mind the cat design of Beast at all, I just thought it wasn't that well executed in FC.

I hope they will improve his look in DOFP!

[Matt Mortem]

I think the biggest thing that separates FC Beast and X3 Beast is the person under the make-up. While Hoult was fine as pre-transformation Beast, once the makeup was done it just fell very flat. Grammar's performance as Beast, however, was so perfect that I could not imagine anyone doing any better.

[Hellion]

I enjoyed both from the actors, to the make up (even though both did have faults)--I loved them.

[psylockolussus]

I think the biggest thing that separates FC Beast and X3 Beast is the person under the make-up. While Hoult was fine as pre-transformation Beast, once the makeup was done it just fell very flat. Grammar's performance as Beast, however, was so perfect that I could not imagine anyone doing any better.

Hoult probably couldn't move his face that much with all of those prosthetic make-up.

[Matt Mortem]

Hoult probably couldn't move his face that much with all of those prosthetic make-up.

That's very true. A make-up can look great, but if it hinders a performance, then that's no good. I hope in DFP they can streamline Hoult's make-up a bit to allow for a greater performance.

[EnDz0n3]

That's very true. A make-up can look great, but if it hinders a performance, then that's no good.

Too bad it didn't fulfill that function either :p

[Hawkingbird]

I though FC's Beast was fine enough, but I do prefer Kelsey's Beast. I don't think it's a big problem. You could just argue that movie Beast's mutations happen the other way around and rather than ending up more cat-like as in the comics.
That the way I see it.

[747]

Yeah I have absolutely no problem with the two different looking Beasts. In the comics his mutation evolved and changed him into a more cat-like Beast, in the film universe it can be the other way around. :)

[wobbly]

Never been a fan of the Cat like beast myself, especially how that further mutation happened as well in the books, and casting Grammar for him in X3 was the most inspired choice they made with that film (perfect voice and manner for the role and they did the make-up very well too), so it's the classic look beast for me.

If Hoult is retruning I'd like them to tone down those features so his own expressions can come through more (and would also show the slow reversal to the more human looking classic beast we saw in X3). Would also have him play the part more confidently now he has had a decade to get used to living in that skin (he was reserved & shy in First Class, so a lean towards the extrovert brash elder Beast would be a welcome change).

[Angamb]

yeah, Id like to see some short of evolution on Hoult's version, to make it a bit closer to the X3 version. And agree about his personality, Beast should be more confident this time, after a 11 years jump, and why not? to have some sense of humour too. That could give the sequel some needed drama breaks, and cool little moments between the x-men, just like the original comics did.

the stuff between the young x-men on FC was really great, and we have seen many users inside and outside the board liked it too.

how Banshee used to answer to Hank's commments, or how Alex joked about Beast and his explanations. Now we need Hank to show that side too

[747]

Yeah, personality wise, Beast should be more Beast-like after 11 years. Or maybe they are saving that character development for the film itself? Personally, I hope not. His experiences in First Class is enough for me to imagine him becoming more like the Beast we all know personality wise.