We Wish The Wrestling Thread The Best In All Its Future Endeavors.

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is 350228

[Nightmare]

The other day Metallo asked our top 10 themes from WWE and WCW:

WWE

The Game - Triple H
Shattered Glass - Stone Cold
Sexy boy - HBK
Perfection - Mr Perfect
Everybody has a price - Ted Dibiase
Are you ready? - DX
Real American - Hulk Hogan
Voices - Randy Orton
Pain & Destruction - Demolition
Lunatic run - Ultimate Warrior

WCW

Sting's crow theme
The NWO group theme
The '97 Horsemen theme
Wolfpac theme
DDP's Bang! theme
Goldberg's
I hate rap - West Texas Rednecks
Raven's 2nd theme
Sting's early 90's 'eye of the tiger' riff
Iceman - Dean Malenko

These are all awesome :up:

Personal favs. Jeff Hardy's TNA theme
Rvd's WWE and TNA themes
Taz's wwe theme
Barry Horowitz
L.O.D.
Sycho Sid's psychotic theme

[Kane52630]

:doh::dry: Why Kane, why?

I thought he did the cover But original song was from Cash!?

He did, I was just pointing out that its that version they used.
Los0g9Et7Ow

[BlackLantern]

way to break the thread everyone

:hehe:

[Lunar_Wolf]

Still can't believe Kane did that.

[Specter313]

thats why Booker and Trish are there....they are the nice teachers and Bill DeMott and Steve are the a-hole teachers

there will be crying and shattering of self esteem

They've got the tough love thing going for them. We've seen other commercials showing Austin having some kinder conversations with the contestants as well. Bill at least had some heart to him as well in his initial season, while still being tough. I think there's a reason that the only season who had a winner that achieved anything in the WWE was the one that had Bill as a trainer with Al and Ivory.

[BlackLantern]

They've got the tough love thing going for them. We've seen other commercials showing Austin having some kinder conversations with the contestants as well. Bill at least had some heart to him as well in his initial season, while still being tough. I think there's a reason that the only season who had a winner that achieved anything in the WWE was the one that had Bill as a trainer with Al and Ivory.

maybe they don't want to win....runners up or co winners have better luck....Morrison, Josh Matthews

Maven is slumming it over at QVC and that Shaniqua chick quit after a couple years....last I read Nadia was living in Italy

[The Sage]

Undertaker cut off Triple H's water spit!!! :lmao::lmao:

[Hunter Rider]

Grrrrrrrrrrr down.

[Hunter Rider]

Shawn! :woot:

[Specter313]

Oh damn!

[The Sage]

SHAWN!!!!!!!!! :eek:

[LuisTX85]

Hbk!?!?!?

[BlackLantern]

I take the HHH hate in here with a grain of salt.....but if the streak does end at the hands of HHH so he can cement whatever legacy he thinks he has

then yea.....its bad

Taker should be able to retire with the streak if he so chooses....IMO

[Lunar_Wolf]

Hearts about to be broken.

[Metallo]

H! B! K!

WWE is really trying to make up for last week with this go home Raw.

[Gotham Knight]

Oh snap, HBK.

[The Sage]

Wow Shawn!

[Specter313]

Oh snap, HBK callin out Trips.

[LuisTX85]

OOOOO shhhhhh****t!!!!

[BlackLantern]

he just doo doo'd all on HHH there

[The Sage]

Triple H's comment to Shawn is almost half-shoot to me. :funny:

[BlackLantern]

hunter is right though....Shawn passed that "having to win to get over" thing a long, long, long time ago

[LuisTX85]

Is Triple H talking about when Taker had the phantom mask???

[NDX]

This has been a decent segment. Shame I don't expect the match to hold up to this.

[The Sage]

Shoot comments galore in this promo. :eek:

[The Sage]

Wow, now I have some interest in this match. This is what a promo is supposed to do.

[NDX]

Wow, now I have some interest in this match. This is what a promo is supposed to do.
Seriously. Some of the best mic work we've had this new year.

And this is after that opening with Punk.

[BlackLantern]

wow

[Jesster32388]

This alone makes it the best Raw I've seen in a while.

[The Sage]

THIS IS STORYTELLING RIGHT HERE!!! This is what guys should be taking notes of.

[LuisTX85]

Shawn left like a b*tch,WTF!?

[Heretic]

Awesome promos...for a match I still dont care to see.

[Hunter Rider]

That was about as money as a segment can get, brilliant stuff.

[BlackLantern]

Shawn left like a b*tch,WTF!?

because he knows

[Lunar_Wolf]

Now that just made my excitement for that match go up.

[The Sage]

Shawn left like a b*tch,WTF!?

He either doesn't think Triple H can win, or he doesn't want Triple H to win.

Brilliant segment. Shawn Michaels is still the man. Doesn't even need to wrestle, or talk. Just body language and facial expressions. He's the man. THE MAN!!

[Heretic]

That was a really, REALLY good segment.

[BlackLantern]

yup....this is why I think, if the streak should be ended by anyone (and I still don't think it should end), someone who can benefit from it

id say CM Punk....he's really the only guy out of the current crop who can handle a storyline like this

[E-Man]

I marked big time when HBK came out. Fantastic promo. All three guys who are legends still showing that they can sell a match better than any other. I got chills plenty of times during that promo.

[Metallo]

HHH just cut the best promo he's cut in YEARS. I love how much truth there is on every level. Makes me invest in this match more.

He put Taker over huge and used it to get himself over

Taker did the same.

I loved Shawns ego blowing up and him going for the SCM. Fits his character perfectly that if he couldn't do it nobody else should be able to. And he can't stand the thought.

Loved Takers laugh and arrogant tip of the hat.

This has done more to make me care about this match than all the other stuff combined. Thats how you make a feud and build to Wrestlemania. Well done, gents.

[Mr.Webs]

Damn, I'm missing it. Does the 'E put up RAW on youtube?

[The Sage]

The Rock ain't got nothing on Shawn Michaels. That's right, I said it. :mad::up:

[Lunar_Wolf]

New King music?

[Hunter Rider]

He either doesn't think Triple H can win, or he doesn't want Triple H to win.

Brilliant segment. Shawn Michaels is still the man. Doesn't even need to wrestle, or talk. Just body language and facial expressions. He's the man. THE MAN!!

Indeed! he has a way to make it feel real like no one else can do.

[The Sage]

yup....this is why I think, if the streak should be ended by anyone (and I still don't think it should end), someone who can benefit from it

id say CM Punk....he's really the only guy out of the current crop who can handle a storyline like this

I agree, he's another that outside mic and in-ring work, has great body language and facial expressions. He's someone I wanted to feud HBK before the retirement.


Anyone think Shawn might cost Triple H the match?

[BlackLantern]

Indeed! he has a way to make it feel real like no one else can do.

this guy felt it

BvTNyKIGXiI

[Metallo]

I loved how Michaels told HHH "I'm sorry, you can't win" That just adds a ton of emotion to this. And adds more doubt. Of course we all know how its going to turn out but that was a great job of hyping HHH vs Taker.

[venom892]

That was an awesome segment and actually got me pumped for the match. I wonder however if the match can deliver.

[The Sage]

It kills me that they have veterans with tremendous mic skills but they'll write scripts for their wrestlers.

[The Sage]

And now BlackLantern takes a bathroom break...:funny:

[NDX]

Ahh, starting to see a little more emotion from AmDrag other than his "**** anyone who said I couldn't cut it in the WWE" smile.

[BlackLantern]

It kills me that they have veterans with tremendous mic skills but they'll write scripts for their wrestlers.

most guys on the roster don't have that type of ability...those three have been at this for how long now??

I wouldn't let someone like Ziggler or Morrison just go out there and ramble, it would be like WCW during the "dark times"

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

That Triple H / Undertaker / Shawn Michaels promo might be one of the best promos I've ever seen. I'd go as far as to say that's the best promo I've seen since I came back watching in 2008.

[The Sage]

most guys on the roster don't have that type of ability...those three have been at this for how long now??

I wouldn't let someone like Ziggler or Morrison just go out there and ramble, it would be like WCW during the "dark times"

Ziggler didn't sound bad at all when he was doing promos on Edge in January and his time in NXT. Some guys I agree with you on, others you gotta let them try.

Now why aren't these guys doing a Fatal 4 Way for the US title at Wrestlemania instead of Morrison and Ziggler getting involved in that mixed tag? :csad:

[Nemi]

:lmao: at Morrison skipping the slow mo and pyro

[Heretic]

I loved how Michaels told HHH "I'm sorry, you can't win" That just adds a ton of emotion to this. And adds more doubt. Of course we all know how its going to turn out but that was a great job of hyping HHH vs Taker.

No kidding! He didnt have a microphone in his hand...he was walking away from the "talking area"...it just felt like a guy expressing his feelings in a heartbroken manner to his friend. He's so good at subtle things that don't occur to most others.

[E-Man]

yup....this is why I think, if the streak should be ended by anyone (and I still don't think it should end), someone who can benefit from it

id say CM Punk....he's really the only guy out of the current crop who can handle a storyline like this

I love Punk, and I agree that he could handle the storyline. My problem would just be with the booking team. They tend to do dumb stuff, and I feel that they wouldn't make the most of an opportunity of Punk breaking the streak. If a person breaks the streak they have to have the ability to be a high level star for years, but the bookers write such dumb stuff that they might have C.M. Punk fighting for the U.S. title after the win instead of pushing him as this big time, strong wrestler that can beat anyone and rubs the win in the face of the fans who hate him. I bet they'd drop the ball, so I'd rather the streak not be broken.

The Rock ain't got nothing on Shawn Michaels. That's right, I said it. :mad::up:

Considering Shawn is my favorite wrestler of all time, I'm not going to argue.:oldrazz:

[Metallo]

most guys on the roster don't have that type of ability...those three have been at this for how long now??

I wouldn't let someone like Ziggler or Morrison just go out there and ramble, it would be like WCW during the "dark times"

People have the ability to be themselves. Nobody got scripted promos 20 years ago and everything was fine.

Its not hard when a guy can be himself. The wrestlers know their own thoughts better than any writer who couldn't hack in it Hollywood.

WCW promos were like that because nobody was in charge...and even some of that was better than the sh** we get now.

[LuisTX85]

Sheamus FTW!

[The Sage]

Got dang it, why did this match have to end so soon?

[NDX]

Damn, that was some fine wrestling. Even with Morrison in the ring.

[Gotham Knight]

So The Rock, Miz, Cena next? :huh:

[BlackLantern]

People have the ability to be themselves. Nobody got scripted promos 20 years ago and everything was fine.

that was 1991....WCW was wandering around in the dark and the WWF/E was struggling....actually in 93 revenues for both WWE and WCW were at an all time low....


so how was everything "fine"?

[Hunter Rider]

Seriously, even Nexy is on the ****ing wind up tonight. :fhm:

[Heretic]

I am REALLY wanting CM Punk to be proven right about Orton...for it to be shown that Punk was really just trying to help Orton with his anger issues...

Everyone is really turning it up a notch tonight...I still dont give a crap about The Corre vs the Great Lakes Avengers though.

[Specter313]

LoD in the HoF!

[LuisTX85]

L.o.d.!!

[LuisTX85]

So this ties into the All Stars game!,LOD are DLC.

[Specter313]

Snookie is sloshed.

[Lunar_Wolf]

WTF is that thing next to Trish?

[Hunter Rider]

Well deserved for the Road Warriors, I am surprised that Arn Anderson has not been inducted this year.

Was there a vid for Abby?

[NDX]

I felt drunk watching that painfully long segment.

Oh, it's not over yet. :(

[The Sage]

SEScoops has learned exclusively there is major backstage heat in WWE on the celebrity-involvement of Snooki in the tag team match at Wrestlemania, and the heat is not directed solely at Snooki.

“We bust our asses 250 days a year on the road,” one prominent RAW-brand superstar claimed, “Snooki will cut right into everyone’s Wrestlemania paydays. And the whole show is built around Rock, who is not full time; Austin, from another era, too; Michael Cole, who doesn’t go on the road; Lawler, who doesn’t go on the road; Snooki, who is a three-shot appearance; and Michelle McCool, who is Undertaker’s wife and therefore doesn’t even go on the road with Layla El, who has to represent LayCool all by herself while her partner gets preferential treatment because of the person she married!”

No superstar we spoke with seems to mind Undertaker or HHH’s role at Mania, since many feel both have earned their rightful spots, but many are concerned about the treatment McCool is afforded over and above all the other divas, as well as all the people collecting major paychecks for this year’s biggest show, and not helping the company “on a daily basis.”

http://www.sescoops.com/wrestling-news/wwe/exclusive-major-backstage-heat-on-snooki-and-michelle-mccool/

[LuisTX85]

The APA would be so proud!

[NDX]

Seriously, even Nexy is on the ****ing wind up tonight. :fhm:
I'mma **** on who I wanna **** on when I wanna **** on 'em.

[Heretic]

I actually turned my tv off when I saw Snooki...I'm waiting a few before turning it back on

[Specter313]

SEScoops has learned exclusively there is major backstage heat in WWE on the celebrity-involvement of Snooki in the tag team match at Wrestlemania, and the heat is not directed solely at Snooki.

“We bust our asses 250 days a year on the road,” one prominent RAW-brand superstar claimed, “Snooki will cut right into everyone’s Wrestlemania paydays. And the whole show is built around Rock, who is not full time; Austin, from another era, too; Michael Cole, who doesn’t go on the road; Lawler, who doesn’t go on the road; Snooki, who is a three-shot appearance; and Michelle McCool, who is Undertaker’s wife and therefore doesn’t even go on the road with Layla El, who has to represent LayCool all by herself while her partner gets preferential treatment because of the person she married!”

No superstar we spoke with seems to mind Undertaker or HHH’s role at Mania, since many feel both have earned their rightful spots, but many are concerned about the treatment McCool is afforded over and above all the other divas, as well as all the people collecting major paychecks for this year’s biggest show, and not helping the company “on a daily basis.”

http://www.sescoops.com/wrestling-news/wwe/exclusive-major-backstage-heat-on-snooki-and-michelle-mccool/

That is ****** if McCool doesn't do any road work besides the televised stuff.

[Specter313]

I actually turned my tv off when I saw Snooki...I'm waiting a few before turning it back on

It's ok, she's gone.

[BlackLantern]

I'mma **** on who I wanna **** on when I wanna **** on 'em.

oh the saucy language

I like it when you get all belligerent

[Metallo]

The Road Warriors! In the HOF! FINALLY! Glad Paul Ellering is going in with them too.

And we follow that up with more Snooki nonsense. At least Trish and Layla are looking hot as hell though. Couldn't McCool just step on Snookie with that moon boot?

[Metallo]

that was 1991....WCW was wandering around in the dark and the WWF/E was struggling....actually in 93 revenues for both WWE and WCW were at an all time low....


so how was everything "fine"?

That was management issues. I'm talking promo wise. What was wrong with the promos 20 years ago? Nothing. I'd even take a Warrior promo on the boring generic crap this lame writers have guys spewing today.

[BlackLantern]

but doesn't the product out front affect the revenue?

so apparently something was wrong and it wasn't just management

[LuisTX85]

Rock!!!

[bullets]

LoD in the HoF!

:awesome:


yup....this is why I think, if the streak should be ended by anyone (and I still don't think it should end), someone who can benefit from it

id say CM Punk....he's really the only guy out of the current crop who can handle a storyline like this


I don't think it will end because it could be a potential money maker if they can still have Undertaker show up every couple years. It depends if the guy is willing to finally let his career R.I.P.

If it does end I do hope it's either CM Punk or maybe Chris Jericho.


Anyone think Shawn might cost Triple H the match?


If Shawn was still active on the roster then yes but it's really hard to see it happening . I could see Shawn trying to hit scm on Taker but he ducks and accidentally takes out Triple H

I'm really missing Raw tonight , that promo sounds amazing. It took one promo for them to elevate this match to where I think it needs to be.

[The Sage]

I feel sorry for these three to have to come on after that Undertaker/Triple H/HBK segment.

[NDX]

“We bust our asses 250 days a year on the road,” one prominent RAW-brand superstar claimed, “Snooki will cut right into everyone’s Wrestlemania paydays. And the whole show is built around Rock, who is not full time; Austin, from another era, too; Michael Cole, who doesn’t go on the road; Lawler, who doesn’t go on the road; Snooki, who is a three-shot appearance; and Michelle McCool, who is Undertaker’s wife and therefore doesn’t even go on the road with Layla El, who has to represent LayCool all by herself while her partner gets preferential treatment because of the person she married!”

What about me?! What about RAVEN?!

[Metallo]

SEScoops has learned exclusively there is major backstage heat in WWE on the celebrity-involvement of Snooki in the tag team match at Wrestlemania, and the heat is not directed solely at Snooki.

“We bust our asses 250 days a year on the road,” one prominent RAW-brand superstar claimed, “Snooki will cut right into everyone’s Wrestlemania paydays. And the whole show is built around Rock, who is not full time; Austin, from another era, too; Michael Cole, who doesn’t go on the road; Lawler, who doesn’t go on the road; Snooki, who is a three-shot appearance; and Michelle McCool, who is Undertaker’s wife and therefore doesn’t even go on the road with Layla El, who has to represent LayCool all by herself while her partner gets preferential treatment because of the person she married!”

No superstar we spoke with seems to mind Undertaker or HHH’s role at Mania, since many feel both have earned their rightful spots, but many are concerned about the treatment McCool is afforded over and above all the other divas, as well as all the people collecting major paychecks for this year’s biggest show, and not helping the company “on a daily basis.”

http://www.sescoops.com/wrestling-news/wwe/exclusive-major-backstage-heat-on-snooki-and-michelle-mccool/


:doh: So F'ed up on so many levels. Snookie bull***** and I know McCool is hurt right now but if she's doing that kind of stuck when she's not hurt thats just bullsh** all its own. She shoulld be on the road as much as the other girls. She's hogging enough tv time so she should take all the hard work that comes with it.

If all that is true the person that said it has a right to be p.o.ed.

[LuisTX85]

Rocky Maivia reference!

[Metallo]

but doesn't the product out front affect the revenue?

so apparently something was wrong and it wasn't just management

Promos weren't the problem. It was presentation, the wrong people getting pushed at times, archaic ideas being brought back and terrible new ones being used. That had zero to do with promos. Thats one part of the overall product. and that could be good while other stuff was crap.

WWE's business didn't reach its all time low point until we got more and more "writers" in the mid 90's so that just proves my point.

[Hunter Rider]

Chicago has always hated Cena.

[NDX]

Just thought I'd mention this, for ****s and giggles, that the school I worked in has banned wrestling toys and games from the premises because they feel it insights violence within the kids. It's instilling poor qualities in the children, making them react out in violence (along with violent video games and violent cartoons) instead of using their words.

My issue is not with the programs they watch but with the parents letting them. They don't set rules for the kids, and doesn't bring them back down to earth. Some of these kids are little bastards, plain and simple, spoiled little ****s that get no discipline outside the school, and then claim we're unfair because we attempt to instill some proper education and manners in them. Little bastards are going to ruin everything for everyone else.

[The Sage]

Rock isn't even acknowledging the Miz. :funny:

[Specter313]

Here we go!

[NDX]

Rock isn't even acknowledging the Miz. :funny:
The who now?

[LuisTX85]

The truth is out about Cena,he sux!.....according to Chicago!!

[The Sage]

Cena's cutting a natural sounding promo. Not much over the top ness.

[Kane52630]

*waits for the Rock Bottom*

[Heretic]

CENA SUCKS! CENA SUCKS! CENA SUCKS! CENA SUCKS! CENA SUCKS! CENA SUCKS! CENA SUCKS! CENA SUCKS! CENA SUCKS! CENA SUCKS! CENA SUCKS! CENA SUCKS!

Although...he's cutting a good promo

[BlackLantern]

**** has gotten real

[The Sage]

Good segment. And here comes the third wheel...

[BlackLantern]

And here comes the afterthought

[marvelman2006]

The rock didnt even interupt cena and he still buried him by just standing there. Atleast the miz can hang with the rock verbally

[NDX]

No matter what Miz says, it's all going to sound like BAWWWWWWWWWWWW.

[The Sage]

Seriously, Miz looks so outclassed standing near Rock and Cena...

[Gotham Knight]

The Rock.....FIGHTING?!!??!!?!?!?!?!??!!?!?

[NDX]

Well, now.

[Heretic]

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

[The Sage]

Haha, and this segment helped Miz...HOW? :lmao:

[Milu]

...and the Attitude Era fans had a heart attack.

[NDX]

And that salute killed the ending for me. I hate that ****.

[marvelman2006]

The rock out here with miz and cena is like johnny unitas practicing with jay cutler and tony romo

[BlackLantern]

That was hilarious.....miz gets punked so hard

[LuisTX85]

Damn you Cena!!!!.....Loved it though!

[Lunar_Wolf]

Great segment.

[chapin]

and this helps the Miz?

[LuisTX85]

Haha, and this segment helped Miz...HOW? :lmao:

IF he retains at WM,Then he'll be even I guess!

[Metallo]

That was a pretty good segment with Rock Cena and Miz. I think everybody got to do what people wanted. Miz got his a** kicked and Rock and Cena got physical. That was a little more heelish for John Cena to leave the ring as Rock was getting attacked then hitting the AA when Rocks back was turned and he was looking away. Not that that means a heel turn but I was surprised.

Cena cut a good promo too.

[Project862006]

how come it feels cena is the wwe champ lol

has cena even mentioned him wanting the wwe title one time during this feud lol

[NDX]

It was worth sitting through that to see the commercial for the The Fall of Sam Axe.

[mjdiddy1]

So this tells me what? The Miz will retain at Wrestlemania.

[Hunter Rider]

Great segment, I actually thought Cena cut the best promo, Rock didn't really have a comeback for what he said. Miz just looked so out of place trying to threaten The Rock, and was Cena laughing on the outside?

The little physical exchange was cool, shame Rock botched the nip up but still, great stuff and it does make you wonder what he will do at Mania since they already gave some fighting away.

[Gotham Knight]

...and the Attitude Era fans had a heart attack.Include me in that group.

[The Chris]

Never expected Cena to do such a punkish thing. Makes me want to see Rock get him back at WM 27!

[Nemi]

Man it was something just to see those two in the ring together. Rock seemed to stumble a bit getting up after that DDT. And Miz proved that he doesn't belong anywhere near these two right now.

[NDX]

Never expected Cena to do such a punkish thing. Makes me want to see Rock get him back at WM 27!
And I expect it will. Question is when, during or post match?

[Metallo]

Makes me wonder if The Rock will cost Cena the match as payback. Not to help the Miz but to spite Cena.

Miz just looked outmatched tonight and I think everybody felt the tension with Rock and Cena. Thats what almost everybody wants to see. Miz cut a good promo but he aint in these guys leagues.

[The Sage]

That was a pretty good segment with Rock Cena and Miz. I think everybody got to do what people wanted. Miz got his a** kicked and Rock and Cena got physical. That was a little more heelish for John Cena to leave the ring as Rock was getting attacked then hitting the AA when Rocks back was turned and he was looking away. Not that that means a heel turn but I was surprised.

Cena cut a good promo too.

That's how Cena should be cutting promos.

That exchange was good and it's almost sets the stage for a potential heel turn.

Miz, just hand over the belt when it's Wrestlemania time.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

That promo couldn't have gone any better for me and what I want to happen at WrestleMania.

The Rock beat the crap out of Miz, giving me some Rocky bad-assness.

Then Cena came in and left The Rock laying, meaning that Rock is gonna have it out for him at WrestleMania, ensuring that Miz walks out of the Georgia Dome the WWE Champion.

Between the Undertaker / Triple H / Shawn Michaels promo, and now the Rock / John Cena / Miz promo, this WrestleMania is going to be absolutely epic.

[Hunter Rider]

Was it just me or was that the most jacked up The Rock has ever been?

[Heretic]

Miz tried...but honestly you could tell that he knew what a big moment this was and he was nervous. Plus...geez...you are in the ring with giants...you arent going to look good.

[The Sage]

That promo couldn't have gone any better for me and what I want to happen at WrestleMania.

The Rock beat the crap out of Miz, giving me some Rocky bad-assness.

Then Cena came in and left The Rock laying, meaning that Rock is gonna have it out for him at WrestleMania, ensuring that Miz walks out of the Georgia Dome the WWE Champion.

Between the Undertaker / Triple H / Shawn Michaels promo, and now the Rock / John Cena / Miz promo, this WrestleMania is going to be absolutely epic.

I hope you get your money's worth man.

Just curious, how much were your tickets?

Was it just me or was that the most jacked up The Rock has ever been?

I think he was bigger back in the Attitude Era but is more shredded, probably 10 pounds lighter than he was then.

[Metallo]

Was it just me or was that the most jacked up The Rock has ever been?

He's looking bigger than he has in years. I don't remember his arms ever looking quite that big. I remember when he first came back I was shocked at how big he was.

[Hunter Rider]

I think he was bigger back in the Attitude Era but is more shredded, probably 10 pounds lighter than he was then.

It's the upper body I think that makes him looks bulkier than he has before.

[The Chris]

It's has been YEARS since I've been so mad when someone got attacked in wrestling. The Rock still has that hold over me and my fam!!! My brother officially can't stand Cena now, and he liked him before this. Way to go Vince!!!! Just please don't make Rock respect him because of it, I want a whooping!!!!!

[Hunter Rider]

He's looking bigger than he has in years. I don't remember his arms ever looking quite that big. I remember when he first came back I was shocked at how big he was.

He lost weight in 2001 I think it was but even at his heaviest he was not as ripped and jacked up.

[Lunar_Wolf]

Especially after tonight's promo, Cena turning heel is a foreign idea. He doesn't care what people think and often basks in the booing he's receives. A popular character is having a face being a badass, example: Stone Cold, but Cena's character is different. He is a face that receives heat, continues to be a face no matter what is tossed at him from the crowd. It's something I've never witnessed with a wrestler before. Normally a wrestling company will play on the crowds reactions, but for Cena, it doesn't seem to matter.

[Nemi]

After that I'm pretty sure this doesn't end at Wrestlemania. I think they'll continue to go back and forth.

[Metallo]

He lost weight in 2001 I think it was but even at his heaviest he was not as ripped and jacked up.

yeah he was heavier in the late 90's but by 2001 and 02 he had gotten leaner but more toned.

I think he's looking more muscular now though. Maybe not at his heaviest but he's jacked up now.

Too bad he messed up the nip up tonight otherwise that would have been perfect.

[SHADOWBAT69]

was I only one that thought Rocks moves were sloppy? I thought he was made to be a chump during that segment and his move set didnt help with what Cena has been saying about him. I really didnt get the whole purpose of Rock being played like that.

And Michaels? Why come back to be owned like a sniveling little girl by Taker?

[Lunar_Wolf]

was I only one that thought Rocks moves were sloppy? I thought he was made to be a chump during that segment and his move set didnt help with what Cena has been saying about him. I really didnt get the whole purpose of Rock being played like that.

And Michaels? Why come back to be owned like a sniveling little girl by Taker?

Rock has a little ring rust.

[SHADOWBAT69]

Rock has a little ring rust.

A little? He should have practiced a bit more before doing anything. lol

[Superark]

I didn't watch RAW tonight. sounds like I missed two really great segments with HHH/Tkaer/HBK and Cena/Miz/Rock

[Dr. Evil]

Was it just me or was that the most jacked up The Rock has ever been?

He's getting back to doing action movies, so he had to be jacked up.

If he stays after Wrestlemania 27, it'll likely mean that he's staying to basically promote Fast Five. If that's the case then hopefully the rest of the cast show up except Vin Diesel, Tyrese, Paul Walker, Ludacris, Sung Kang, Matt Schulze and others. Basically, just Jordana Brewster

:awesome:

[Heretic]

Rock was sloppy...few cared. I giggled.

[Nemi]

was I only one that thought Rocks moves were sloppy? I thought he was made to be a chump during that segment and his move set didnt help with what Cena has been saying about him. I really didnt get the whole purpose of Rock being played like that.

And Michaels? Why come back to be owned like a sniveling little girl by Taker?

No i saw it to, it looked like he stumbled getting up from the DDT

[Dr. Evil]

When I saw the Rock slip, I was thinking...well, the Miz is no Vin Diesel that's for sure.

[Gotham Knight]

was I only one that thought Rocks moves were sloppy? I thought he was made to be a chump during that segment and his move set didnt help with what Cena has been saying about him. I really didnt get the whole purpose of Rock being played like that. I would expect a Rock Bottom or People's Elbow at WrestleMania to help him save face.

[Metallo]

was I only one that thought Rocks moves were sloppy? I thought he was made to be a chump during that segment and his move set didnt help with what Cena has been saying about him. I really didnt get the whole purpose of Rock being played like that.

And Michaels? Why come back to be owned like a sniveling little girl by Taker?

Michaels was just trying to help sell HHH vs Taker for Wrestlemania. From the sound of things it worked. He added more emotion and more doubt to the outcome...at least for the casual fan. Thats why Michaels is all class.


Exclusive: More Backstage Cole News; Likening Himself to JR?
by Nick Paglino

Yesterday, WZ reported (which has been picked up by other sites today) that there is tremendous backstage heat on Michael Cole (http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/article/exclusive-major-heat-on-michael-cole-for-homophobic-slur-127171) for his homophobic Twitter comment made to Josh Matthews over the weekend.

In an update to that story, WZ has learned tonight that one of the reasons why Michael Cole has developed what's been described as a "big head" backstage, is because he is close friends with John Cena, and is considered to be "one of Cena's boys." The relationship between Cole and Cena is something that Cole refers to often, and a number of backstage sources have told us that Cole is never hesitant to "name drop" John Cena in conversations and mention their friendship. Cole firmly believes that if he were ever to be in hot water with WWE management that John Cena would definitely go to bat for him, whether or not that's actually true. We were told, however, that his relationship with Cena is not necessarily the reason why he wasn't punished more severely after the Twitter incident.

Additionally, we've been told that as of late Michael Cole has been likening his on-air relationship with John Cena to that of Jim Ross' relationship with Stone Cold Steve Austin. "Cole likes to think he's the modern day Jim Ross, and that he's the on-air voice of John Cena's career much like Jim Ross was for Stone Cold Steve Austin during that era," an insider told us this evening, "when you hear Cole say that he's the 'voice of the WWE' on TV, I can tell you for a fact that he 100% believes it to be true off the air as well.":whatever: Is...is this a work? Cole can't be serious.

[LuisTX85]

Rock will have to leave even IF he wants to stay this time!,He will have to do promotional work all over the world for Fast Five.

I am hoping there's a great chance that he'll return at least for a match at SS and/or next year's WM!,But I just know the IWC/hardcore fans/Cena fans and casual will all turn on Rock ASAP and big time during his speech after Mania on Raw.....Then IF he does come back many will just not care for him and will be too late,Only chance for Rock will be to commit for at least one year on the roster full-time for TV&PPVS!

[Dr. Evil]

Cole is serious....and don't call him Shirley.

[Wylie Times]

was I only one that thought Rocks moves were sloppy? I thought he was made to be a chump during that segment and his move set didnt help with what Cena has been saying about him. I really didnt get the whole purpose of Rock being played like that.

And Michaels? Why come back to be owned like a sniveling little girl by Taker?

Rock being a bit sloppy was to be expected. That was the first time he's done anything in the ring in LONG time.

As for him being made to look like a chump, this isn't over and you have to wait to see how things play out.

I do think Cena's actions were more Heelish than what we normally see out of him.

[The Sage]

Rock will have to leave even IF he wants to stay this time!,He will have to do promotional work all over the world for Fast Five.

I am hoping there's a great chance that he'll return at least for a match at SS and/or next year's WM!,But I just know the IWC/hardcore fans/Cena fans and casual will all turn on Rock ASAP and big time during his speech after Mania on Raw.....Then IF he does come back many will just not care for him and will be too late,Only chance for Rock will be to commit for at least one year on the roster full-time for TV&PPVS!

Gotta be SummerSlam. Wrestlemania next year is too far away...

[Nemi]

Like i said before, I hope this ends with some kind of character development for Cena. Maybe him acting a bit more heelish from now on or just losing that happy go lucky attitude that he has.

[The Chris]

Maybe. His constant smiling when he came out got on my nerves. Never used to before, but putting him opposite intense rocky, it annoyed me.

I now understand where the fans at wrestlemania 18 were coming from. They liked the rock, but They hadn't seen the legend of their childhood in years and rooted for him. The wrestling legend of my childhood is back, and now I want him to smoke this young punk!!!!!

[Iron_Stark]

About damn time THE greatest tag team in the history of wrestling is getting inducted into the HOF.

That confrontation with Rock, Cena and Miz was great.

[Nemi]

Haha yeah I feel the same way, though Cena's superman act isn't helping.

[NDX]

About damn time THE greatest tag team in the history of wrestling is getting inducted into the HOF.
I missed them announcing Demolition's induction?!

[Marx]

Are Demolition really being inducted!?

Edit: Nevermind. I just saw that it was LOD. Still cool though. :up:

[bullets]

Like i said before, I hope this ends with some kind of character development for Cena. Maybe him acting a bit more heelish from now on or just losing that happy go lucky attitude that he has.


Actually when Rock and Stone Cold were doing the build for Wrestlemania 17 every week they would try to get the drop on the other guy by sneaking up on him. I don't think Cena was supposed to come across as heelish necessarily. I would say it's more aggressive than usual but they've been going back and forth on that for quite some time.

[The Chris]

The big difference here being that Rock and Austin were both mega loved, where I can't say that about Cena. I don't remember either of them waiting for the other to fight two other dudes before running back into the ring and attacking them. That part made it really heelish.

[bullets]

I'm watching Raw highlights on wwe.com. They have one of Rock leaving the ring selling Cena's f.u.

The segment with Orton/ Punk was one of the highlights for me , the injury angle really helps that match .. HHH / Taker promo amazing , I love how they ended that .. I'm still waiting for the Miz/ Rock/ Cena promo , not sure how I feel about that yet

[bullets]

The big difference here being that Rock and Austin were both mega loved, where I can't say that about Cena. I don't remember either of them waiting for the other to fight two other dudes before running back into the ring and attacking them. That part made it really heelish.


There was definitely run ins but maybe not sneaking in and out of the ring like Cena did. I still haven't seen the segment , only reading the results. I'm sure they are trying to set up the feud ( i can't see how they could even this out), maybe they'll come back to this moment somewhere down the line and have Cena actually turn but I don't see it happening, wouldn't mind being wrong though.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

The thing about the attack that made it seem heelish, to me, wasn't that Cena did it, but it's how he did it, and the little way he acted about it afterwords. He had a really smug sense of "Yea, I just did that". At least that's how it came off to me.

I gotta say, this might be the best Raw I've seen in a long long time. I couldn't have asked for a better final Raw before WrestleMania.

The CM Punk / Orton segment was great. The Triple H / Undertaker / Shawn Michaels segment was absolutely epic. And the Rock / John Cena / Miz segment was great hype leading into the match.

I really can't see any other way to end the match than to have Miz retain. People have asked "How did that help Miz", but he's been looking strong over Cena, getting the upper hand on him for the last 4 weeks. At some point Miz had to get put in his place. And Rock dropping a People's Elbow on him was absolutely appropriate given that it was Miz who mocked The Rock and dropped a People's Elbow of his own on Cena. The Rock got his revenge on Miz. But the real deal happens at WrestleMania.

There is no way that Rock can shake Cena's hand and hold it high after a win now. The Rock absolutely has to do something to Cena that will end up costing him the match, and the title. Miz absolutely has to retain. I still think the best way to go about it is have The Rock come out, and attack BOTH guys (with the focus being on Cena). The Rock leaves both guys laying, and leaves the ring. The Miz is able to take advantage of the double beatdown, and get the pin. That's what I'm going with.

My official prediction is that Miz retains.

[The Chris]

Yeah you're right. He seemed really proud of himself. Makers me want him to lose more! I think his actions in this fued are proving what guys like CM Punk and Jericho have said about him in their fueds, that he has this wall and cover of the clean cut good guy where in actuality he's a jerk.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

And, I do want to respond to one thing that got lost in the shuffle of the last thread:

Hunter - no, I don't want you, or Metallo, to stop addressing my posts. But the annoyance and frustration comes from the way you address them.

I'm not saying y'all are being hostile or hateful (although, Hunter, you did once tell me that my way of watching wrestling was "disrespectful to the business"). But it's annoying when I tell you what it is that I like about The Miz (or dislike about Ziggler, or whatever the guy in question is), and all the response is boils down to "Well The Miz isn't as good as this guy at that, or that guy at this", stating it to me as though it's fact. You know, the same thing you get after me for doing?

BlackLantern craps on Miz just as hard as anyone in this thread, but I don't think I've ever interacted with him ONCE over The Miz. Cuz when he does it, even though he's crapping on The Miz, he's not picking apart my points one by one telling me they are wrong. He's stating that he hates The Miz. It's clear to me that Lantern doesn't like Miz, and doesn't think he should be in the company, let alone main eventing. But I've never had a back and forth with him. Cuz he's not picking at me when he does it.

It -does- feel like you and Metallo are picking at me (not picking -ON- me, I just want to make that clear) when I can explain why I like guy A, or hate guy B, and all you guys do is pick apart my points one by one and essentially tell me I'm wrong for thinking that.

Yea, y'all can engage me. Y'all can disagree with me. When I say "I like The Miz because I think he has the best character in the business right now", then reply back and say "The Miz isn't really doing good character work for me", don't reply back and say "Well The Rock, Austin, all did character better in the past, and CM Punk is doing character better now", it sounds like all you are doing is telling me I'm wrong for my opinion, and that y'alls opinion is better, and more informed, or whatever. That because other guys did something better, that I shouldn't enjoy what THIS guy is bringing to the table. That somehow what other people did or do invalidates what this guy does, thus making my opinion on THIS guy invalid because of something OTHER guys are doing.

Again, I'm not saying you're picking *on* me. I'm not saying you're doing it to be hostile. But it does feel kind of... arrogant. You accuse me of trying to stir the pot, and yea maybe I do use a bit of extreme language when expressing my opinion, when I say I *HATE* Ziggler, or what have you. It's cuz this thread can often times feel like a bunch of know it alls patting themselves on the back for being so "enlightened", and doing nothing but bashing certain guys day in and day out, for being the easy, mainstream targets that only the "unwashed masses" could ever enjoy.

I'm not saying -don't- engage me, but it does get annoying when your responses feel like you're constantly criticizing and judging the way I view wrestling because my mentality towards it is different than your mentality towards it. And yes, you HAVE said things that imply that - telling me my way of watching wrestling is disrespectful to the business, and constantly making criticisms and assumptions about how I view wrestling, and paint it in such a negative light, like your remark earlier about me not caring about matches, and how I'd buy a PPV just to watch a bunch of promos.

There is an obvious failure to communicate, between myself and you, and myself and Metallo, a failure to communicate that none of us have with anyone else in this thread. So it's obvious that what the 3 of us are doing is pushing each other's buttons in some way.

[spidey-dude]

am i the only one who thought cenas speech was utter rubbish??

sure he went serious, but half of what he said was just sort of "stop bullying me" I dunno, i just didnt think it was good - i still cant stand his goofy smile, he got a pretty mixed reception

rock looked rusty as hell (fudged the jump up thing he used to do) but i suppose that is to be expected really, it has been a long time

[AntMan]

I just want to say that tonight's might have been my favorite Cena promo ever. It just felt so real and honest, it felt like John meant every word he said. I'm 23, I've been "smart" since age 12, and tonight was one of those nights where wrestling felt real again.

[Wylie Times]

Maybe. His constant smiling when he came out got on my nerves. Never used to before, but putting him opposite intense rocky, it annoyed me.

I now understand where the fans at wrestlemania 18 were coming from. They liked the rock, but They hadn't seen the legend of their childhood in years and rooted for him. The wrestling legend of my childhood is back, and now I want him to smoke this young punk!!!!!

Some of that was just Canadian fans being contrary as usual. Before that match the interactions between the two saw Rock being heavily cheered with Hogan getting some good pops also. It wasn't until they went into Canada that Rock was getting flat out booed.

[SpideyVille]

So would a Rock/Cena showdown be similar to the Hogan/Rock match from 7-8 years ago, where it was basically the face of the Industry from two separate decades/generations finally colliding?

I haven't really watched/followed wrestling as closely as I did when I was younger, but hearing that the Rock returned made me decide to tune in tonight. I'm also curious to see how the Undertaker's streak thing plays out. Personally, I would like to see him go 20-0 and call it quits, but I feel like a loss to Triple H would give him a reason to retire. I saw the History of WrestleMania documentary on Netflix the other day, and I remember someone saying that The Undertaker is just waiting for the right person to defeat him before calling it quits.

[RetroNaz]

I thought they had a fantastic final build to WM, personally.

Ditto with Hunter and Undertaker.

Infact, this was a really solid RAW and a great way to lead into Wrestlemania.

[Wylie Times]

So would a Rock/Cena showdown be similar to the Hogan/Rock match from 7-8 years ago, where it was basically the face of the Industry from two separate decades/generations finally colliding?

I haven't really watched/followed wrestling as closely as I did when I was younger, but hearing that the Rock returned made me decide to tune in tonight.

It wouldn't be the same in the sense that Cena already gets booed pretty heavily at big PPV's because more "hardcore" fans attend those events.

What makes things difficult is that Rock has consistently jobbed in his last matches. The Last match he won was either against Austin or Hurricane nearly a decade ago. Cena can't lose to Rock unless they're going to have a rematch but Rock needs to look credible for younger fans who don't know as much about him.

[bullets]

The thing about the attack that made it seem heelish, to me, wasn't that Cena did it, but it's how he did it, and the little way he acted about it afterwords. He had a really smug sense of "Yea, I just did that". At least that's how it came off to me.



I finally just watched the segment, it was really good . I see what you guys are saying. Cena did seem to go into heel mode the way he took out Rock . I hope that's a little foreshadowing.
I really don't know how it's gonna go Sunday , I'm kind of in the same boat now thinking Rock may cost Cena the title. Most of the time the loser gets over before the big bout ...idk.


am i the only one who thought cenas speech was utter rubbish??


Maybe a little awkward at first but I thought he came off strong towards the end .

[bullets]

What makes things difficult is that Rock has consistently jobbed in his last matches. The Last match he won was either against Austin or Hurricane nearly a decade ago. Cena can't lose to Rock unless they're going to have a rematch but Rock needs to look credible for younger fans who don't know as much about him.


It's a rumor but there's talk of Rock facing off against Miz before Cena. They could have him go over the Miz and then lose to Cena . I guess depending on Rock's willingness to do all this

[spidey-dude]

I just want to say that tonight's might have been my favorite Cena promo ever. It just felt so real and honest, it felt like John meant every word he said. I'm 23, I've been "smart" since age 12, and tonight was one of those nights where wrestling felt real again.

really? i thought it felt more fake than anything

more annoying was cena didnt seem to understand the rock "you have a problem with how i dress, what music I listen to"

uhm did the rock ay that? the idea was he has a problem with cena running his mouth and acting like a massive kid, the other stuff was just taking the pis

it just felt more like "wah stop bullying me for these things"

considering the promos I imagined they could cut on each other this week was not that good

[Wylie Times]

really? i thought it felt more fake than anything

more annoying was cena didnt seem to understand the rock "you have a problem with how i dress, what music I listen to"

uhm did the rock ay that? the idea was he has a problem with cena running his mouth and acting like a massive kid, the other stuff was just taking the pis

it just felt more like "wah stop bullying me for these things"

considering the promos I imagined they could cut on each other this week was not that good


That promo felt like Cena was talking about a completely different situation. Cena also never directly addresses what he said about Rock outside of a few tweets.

[Slushy]

Re: HHH Vs. The Undertaker

My God, that buildup video with Mark Collie's "In Time" from the Punisher film was absolutely incredible! :eek:

Its like they're subtlely hinting this could very well be Hunter's last stand with all the video packages they've shown and all promos he's cut in the past few weeks. They're using all sorts of language to make it SEEM like it'll be the end of the road for one of them, but never using the words to suggest that it IS a definitive retirement match. Obviously, they do this to build up the importance of this match, making it seem as if one of them won't be able to carry on afterwards. However, the door remains open for both to return, since the word retirement is never used, but to me, it feels like an unofficial retirement match and if this is truly game over for HHH, its been one Hell of a ride. Now the million dollar question is will Shawn Michaels accidentally or intentionally cost Triple H the match?

Re: Cena Vs. Rock

Granted, Cena did it to get back at The Rock for disrespecting him, but attacking from behind was a dick move on his character's part. It was a cheapshot, period. I expect either a full blown heel turn or at least further heelish actions for John Cena the night after Wrestlemania.

Seeing John Cena and The Rock in the same ring at the same time was hopefully the beginning of history in the making! For seven years, SEVEN years, we asked for The Rock to return! To have at least one more match because a good portion of us bashed him for "selling out". We didn't think he'd come back and he proved us wrong. We didn't think he'd get physically involved because we assumed his heart was now with Hollywood as the supposed contract clause barring high risk activies off working on movie sets was in effect and he proved us wrong. Now he's been dissing John Cena, hinting at an in-ring return, and took a beating / bumps last night! Ladies and gentlemen, many of us dreamed of John Cena Vs. The Rock and at SummerSlam, I do believe that dream will finally come true! :awesome:

[spidey-dude]

It's a rumor but there's talk of Rock facing off against Miz before Cena. They could have him go over the Miz and then lose to Cena . I guess depending on Rock's willingness to do all this

if the rock picks up the title to drop it to cena (can see them giving him one last title run although the feud definitely doesnt need it) I hope he changes the belt while he has it

[AntMan]

That's how Cena should be cutting promos.

That exchange was good and it's almost sets the stage for a potential heel turn.

Miz, just hand over the belt when it's Wrestlemania time.

Agree 100%

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I finally just watched the segment, it was really good . I see what you guys are saying. Cena did seem to go into heel mode the way he took out Rock . I hope that's a little foreshadowing.
I really don't know how it's gonna go Sunday , I'm kind of in the same boat now thinking Rock may cost Cena the title. Most of the time the loser gets over before the big bout ...idk.




Maybe a little awkward at first but I thought he came off strong towards the end .

I agree. At the beginning of Cena's promo I was thinking "Really??? Last Raw before WrestleMania and THIS is what you give us, John?" But then he picked it up and finished the segment strong.

I've always felt that The Miz was gonna go over Cena. I felt that with Miz being the "afterthought" to the Cena / Rock feud, that was being done on purpose, to make people think that "Oh Miz doesn't have a chance, cuz he's the afterthought" and then boom, he goes over Cena for the win. Swerve.

But Cena's promo had me worried. His whole "I did what I did cuz I wanted you back" he me thinking "Son of a *****, here comes the 'Rock respects Cena and holds his hand high at WrestleMania' bit", but Cena coming in, giving the AA to Rock, and then walking away with that smug look on his face? Yea, that did it for me. Miz is going over Cena, and Rock is gonna beat the crap out of Cena.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Re: HHH Vs. The Undertaker

My God, that buildup video with Mark Collie's "In Time" from the Punisher film was absolutely incredible! :eek:

Its like they're subtlely hinting this could very well be Hunter's last stand with all the video packages they've shown and all promos he's cut in the past few weeks. They're using all sorts of language to make it SEEM like it'll be the end of the road for one of them, but never using the words to suggest that it IS a definitive retirement match. Obviously, they do this to build up the importance of this match, making it seem as if one of them won't be able to carry on afterwards. However, the door remains open for both to return, since the word retirement is never used, but to me, it feels like an unofficial retirement match and if this is truly game over for HHH, its been one Hell of a ride. Now the million dollar question is will Shawn Michaels accidentally or intentionally cost Triple H the match?

Could be just wishful thinking, but Triple H saying "Shawn, tell him why I'm gonna win" and waiting for a reply from HBK seemed like it was hinting at a one night only reunion of DX.

I'm just gonna say right now - returning Rock, returning Austin, returning Triple H, my favorite young up and comers Miz and Del Rio in the main events, and a return of DX? That would make for like the best WrestleMania ever in my book.

Given everything else that we do have, I would love to see Triple H and HBK come out together as DX, and have Michaels in Triple H's corner.

I don't want the streak to end, and I don't want Triple H to retire which is being heavily hinted about in these promos should Triple H lose. I don't know what to root for in this match.

[Trainwreck2100]

Could be just wishful thinking, but Triple H saying "Shawn, tell him why I'm gonna win" and waiting for a reply from HBK seemed like it was hinting at a one night only reunion of DX.

I'm just gonna say right now - returning Rock, returning Austin, returning Triple H, my favorite young up and comers Miz and Del Rio in the main events, and a return of DX? That would make for like the best WrestleMania ever in my book.

Given everything else that we do have, I would love to see Triple H and HBK come out together as DX, and have Michaels in Triple H's corner.

I don't want the streak to end, and I don't want Triple H to retire which is being heavily hinted about in these promos should Triple H lose. I don't know what to root for in this match.

Maybe it will end in a draw








:dry:

[AntMan]

Root for a good match. Both are not in the best shape, so that's what I'm worried about.

[The Sage]

The thing about the attack that made it seem heelish, to me, wasn't that Cena did it, but it's how he did it, and the little way he acted about it afterwords. He had a really smug sense of "Yea, I just did that". At least that's how it came off to me.

I gotta say, this might be the best Raw I've seen in a long long time. I couldn't have asked for a better final Raw before WrestleMania.

The CM Punk / Orton segment was great. The Triple H / Undertaker / Shawn Michaels segment was absolutely epic. And the Rock / John Cena / Miz segment was great hype leading into the match.

I really can't see any other way to end the match than to have Miz retain. People have asked "How did that help Miz", but he's been looking strong over Cena, getting the upper hand on him for the last 4 weeks. At some point Miz had to get put in his place. And Rock dropping a People's Elbow on him was absolutely appropriate given that it was Miz who mocked The Rock and dropped a People's Elbow of his own on Cena. The Rock got his revenge on Miz. But the real deal happens at WrestleMania.

There is no way that Rock can shake Cena's hand and hold it high after a win now. The Rock absolutely has to do something to Cena that will end up costing him the match, and the title. Miz absolutely has to retain. I still think the best way to go about it is have The Rock come out, and attack BOTH guys (with the focus being on Cena). The Rock leaves both guys laying, and leaves the ring. The Miz is able to take advantage of the double beatdown, and get the pin. That's what I'm going with.

My official prediction is that Miz retains.

Definitely the best RAW in weeks, and with that ending, I'm starting to think Rock might cost Cena the title too. I think Rock will Rock Bottom Cena, Miz will hit the Skull Crushing Finale on Rock then pin Cena.

I just want to say that tonight's might have been my favorite Cena promo ever. It just felt so real and honest, it felt like John meant every word he said. I'm 23, I've been "smart" since age 12, and tonight was one of those nights where wrestling felt real again.

It was the most natural he's sounded outside of his first rap. He addressed Rock's criticisms, and I was waiting for Rock to respond but he didn't really outside of the comment about being judged. They just jumped right into the near-fight.

[RetroNaz]

I really hope Miz does retain at Wrestlemania, and the chances of that grow depending on the placement of the match on the card (ie. not the main event).

I would like to think that Undertaker will retain. I just can't fathom him losing the streak to HHH of all people who wouldn't really gain anything from the win in the long run. If they really are going to have someone eventually end the streak (thus Undertaker's career), please let it be a wrestler that could use the win as a major stepping point to being the top player.

I was really impressed with RAW this week, excellent build up to their biggest PPV. I just feel that it was a too little, too late situation to really capitalise on the people that were curious with the Rock and Cena stuff back when it first started. The ratings have even reflected the lack of interest lately.

[Ajendo]

So the next time The Rock meets Cena it'll be at wrestlemania??? Hahahaha Cena's going to get owned hard after the punk-b itch move he pulled on raw. Rock will never let something like that go unpunished. But yes, that was an amazing segment, attitude era worthy. As much as I hate Cena, I actually loved every minute of the segment and what Cena did, for the first time in 6 years, I felt "involved" and "invested" with what was going on. A great job by cena, rock and miz.

[Slushy]

While Cena was talking to The Rock, everything he said I think was directed to all his haters.


My official prediction is that Miz retains.


Either that or Del Rio wins. No way is Vince stupid enough to let two heels walk out of Wrestlemania the world champions.

[The Sage]

Yeah I'm thinking Miz will retain, Del Rio will win. In both matches, I expect outside interference will determine the outcomes.

So the next time The Rock meets Cena it'll be at wrestlemania??? Hahahaha Cena's going to get owned hard after the punk-b itch move he pulled on raw. Rock will never let something like that go unpunished. But yes, that was an amazing segment, attitude era worthy. As much as I hate Cena, I actually loved every minute of the segment and what Cena did, for the first time in 6 years, I felt "involved" and "invested" with what was going on. A great job by cena, rock and miz.

I loved the snarkiness of Cena towards the end, and even during it.

[Ajendo]

While Cena was talking to The Rock, everything he said I think was directed to all his haters.

It's hard to fault anything Cena said last night because on one hand he was shining the Rock's jock...real nice about how he's back, how the people love him, the electricity and then on the other hand, he acknowledged that he's (CENA) happy the way he is and quite honestly, Cena being such a happy go lucky face with a kiddie demographic doesn't exactly make him an a-hole, it just makes him annoying. So in all fairness to Cena, he cut quite a smart promo and I was wondering how the Rock would respond but true to form, like the legendary brahama bull, Rock's response was short, sweet and straight to the point.

This whole Cena situation did remind me of the fans turning on the Rock when he was running with the Rocky Maivia name, the only difference is, Cena will never ever be able to pull off the charismatic, trash talking bully that the Rock was/is able to be in fact no one in the business can. That being said, Cena MAY be immune to the fans turning on him. If he does go heel, he'll have to really heel it up.

As for the miz, the guy's a moron, an entertaining one but I hated how rigt after the people's elbow he gets up and staggers towards the ropes, only for the Rock to throw him out. Miz should have been laid out on the canvas.

[LOBO3315a]

I keep missing RAW, but all I have to do is come here, and you guys catch me up! :)

[cyclone]

So where's the Wrestlemania Prediction sticky then?! Get it done!! :P

[Ajendo]

Yeah I'm thinking Miz will retain, Del Rio will win. In both matches, I expect outside interference will determine the outcomes.



I loved the snarkiness of Cena towards the end, and even during it.

I'm praying he really becomes a fully fledged heel. We didn't get to see Cena's response to the fans screaming he sucks after he said he'll get to that later.

[venom892]

He did address it. He said he doesn't judge them the way The Rock shouldn't judge him. He is completely fine with them booing him basically. I thought it was an awesome segment even though Miz came off as a chump. But at this point I think Miz will retain. Cena won't go full heel they need the kids to keep buying his merch but he will most likely be a tweener going forward.

[Nemi]

Re: HHH Vs. The Undertaker

My God, that buildup video with Mark Collie's "In Time" from the Punisher film was absolutely incredible! :eek:

Its like they're subtlely hinting this could very well be Hunter's last stand with all the video packages they've shown and all promos he's cut in the past few weeks. They're using all sorts of language to make it SEEM like it'll be the end of the road for one of them, but never using the words to suggest that it IS a definitive retirement match. Obviously, they do this to build up the importance of this match, making it seem as if one of them won't be able to carry on afterwards. However, the door remains open for both to return, since the word retirement is never used, but to me, it feels like an unofficial retirement match and if this is truly game over for HHH, its been one Hell of a ride. Now the million dollar question is will Shawn Michaels accidentally or intentionally cost Triple H the match?



I do agree the build up has been amazing considering what little time they've had and how it kind of jus randomly came together at first. Though I think most of it is really them trying to recapture the magic of last years match. It's like they are following the same formula again only this time it's not official so that when Triple H loses he can still show up on Raw the next day and go do something else. The Undertaker has his entire streak to lose but Triple H doesn't stand to lose anything.

[Ajendo]

I think it's still hard to say who will win. Tbh, I don't think the Rock even cares who wins either. The Rock has dealt with Miz and Miz now more than ever is an after thought. Cena winning or losing won't change the fact that the Rock is going to drag Cena down know your role blvd, hang that right onto jabroni drive and check his candy ass into the smack down hotel.........cheesy I know.

[Hotwire]

After Cena gave Rock the AA, he was set. I thought, what a great way to start down the road to heel turn. Then he did that goofy salute and undid everything. Still think a showdown between these guys is going to be awesome!

[RetroNaz]

Well I think it makes sense for WWE as a company to have Cena go over The Rock in the long run.

I think Rock will cost Cena the belt and will properly kick off their feud for Summer Slam.

[Nemi]

Well as everyone said, Miz and the title itself have become an afterthought. This is about Cena and The Rock. But Rock doesn't wanna wrestle just yet so Miz will fill that place. But this is about Cena and Rock, The Miz just shows up when they finish to remind people that he's the one that's actually gonna wrestle.

[Hotwire]

From The Rock's Facebook page...

John Cena - God himself can't asve you from the ass kicking I will give you this Sunday at Wrestlemania. TEAM BRING IT

[Hotwire]

Well I think it makes sense for WWE as a company to have Cena go over The Rock in the long run.

I think Rock will cost Cena the belt and will properly kick off their feud for Summer Slam.
Totally agree. This could be the next Hoagn/Rock.

[The Sage]

Well I think it makes sense for WWE as a company to have Cena go over The Rock in the long run.

I think Rock will cost Cena the belt and will properly kick off their feud for Summer Slam.

And Cena can cut promos every now and then on Rock up until then. I'm guessing Rock will film a movie for a few months. Cena could go on Rock about him leaving again despite saying he's here to stay.

Ahh, the potential. :D

[BlackLantern]

and the Miz can get kicked down to the midcard....where someone like him belongs

[blueblazer2]

How come everbody wants The Rock to lost to John CENA ? If I were the Rock I would not agree to that

[BlackLantern]

because the Rock is NOT a full time performer and him winning does nothing for him or anyone else

he is past the point of having to win to get himself over

[SpideyVille]

Re: HHH Vs. The Undertaker

My God, that buildup video with Mark Collie's "In Time" from the Punisher film was absolutely incredible! :eek:

Its like they're subtlely hinting this could very well be Hunter's last stand with all the video packages they've shown and all promos he's cut in the past few weeks. They're using all sorts of language to make it SEEM like it'll be the end of the road for one of them, but never using the words to suggest that it IS a definitive retirement match. Obviously, they do this to build up the importance of this match, making it seem as if one of them won't be able to carry on afterwards. However, the door remains open for both to return, since the word retirement is never used, but to me, it feels like an unofficial retirement match and if this is truly game over for HHH, its been one Hell of a ride. Now the million dollar question is will Shawn Michaels accidentally or intentionally cost Triple H the match?

I think it would lessen the win for the Undertaker if Shawn costs Triple H the match, and cheapen his legacy if he loses to Triple H because of Shawn. I mean, this is the Undertaker, the man who it took like 10 guys to bury. To think one man like HBK could take him down in such a cheap way would piss me off. Maybe its because I don't want to see the streak end, but I'd be pretty mad if Shawn costs him the match, accidentally or on purpose.

[Nemi]

How come everbody wants The Rock to lost to John CENA ? If I were the Rock I would not agree to that

As much as we all love The Rock it would be no different than Hogan showing up once a year and beating the most popular person there at the time.

[The Chris]

It would just suck more, because Cena is not The Rock. That's the thing that keeps me from comparing it to Hogan/ Rock. Rock was big enough of a star with the whole audience and deserved to be there with Hogan. I wouldn't put Cena on that level.

[BlackLantern]

It would just suck more, because Cena is not The Rock. That's the thing that keeps me from comparing it to Hogan/ Rock. Rock was big enough of a star with the whole audience and deserved to be there with Hogan. I wouldn't put Cena on that level.

the money he generates says otherwise, the crowd reactions say otherwise.....people either love him or hate him absolutely....better than folks just not caring (which is the category the Miz is in)

[The Chris]

What I'm thinking is Hogan and Rock was just more special because they both got strong love. The reaction from the fans and how they were at war with each other. Rocky! Rocky!!! Hogan! Hogan!!!! Where here it doesn't feel the same because with Cena it's always Love and Hate. It's all ROCKY!!!! and Cena sucks!!!!

Plus the outside of wrestling attention those two both got and still get. Two huge wrestling stars who broke out into the mainstream in their times, duking it out now!!!!Cena's big with the merchandise and the cash, but in the end I wouldn't put him in their class.

[Zanham]

Like i said before, I hope this ends with some kind of character development for Cena. Maybe him acting a bit more heelish from now on or just losing that happy go lucky attitude that he has.
Cena is never going to go full heel because, like he said, he does it for the kids.

They target the youth, that's what they do!

am i the only one who thought cenas speech was utter rubbish??

sure he went serious, but half of what he said was just sort of "stop bullying me" I dunno, i just didnt think it was good - i still cant stand his goofy smile, he got a pretty mixed reception

rock looked rusty as hell (fudged the jump up thing he used to do) but i suppose that is to be expected really, it has been a long time
In my opinion, anything out of Cena's mouth is total garbage. Guy sounds more like he's promoting 'world peace, global equality, and a greener and happier planet' than being the Doctor-of-Thuganomics. There's also too much rhythm in his talk and it all just comes across as 'not him.' Everything out of his mouth is a complete and total lie.

I think that John Cena wasn't even born in America. I suspect he has alterior motives against the WWE and that he is actually under the command of the WWF(World Wildlife Federation) amongst others.

Even more, you thought Jeff Hardy was the Anti-christ of pro-wrestling? You thought C.M. Punk was the new 'savior?' What are John Cena's initials? J.C.. The name Jesus Christ ring-a-bell? There's your 'new savior!' There's your anti-christ!

Something bugged me about Cena for awhile but I just couldn't put my finger on it... his persona seems almost to good to be true... because it is.

Sorry to tell ya' WWE, but I think your poster boy has been there to destroy the company all along.

I grew up watching the 'ole WWF amongst other things and that's why I have no objection to The Rock coming out and driving Cena and his hordes out of professional wrestling on live TV for the entire country to see.

I can say this because I never was much of a Rock fan... until now.

It's a rumor but there's talk of Rock facing off against Miz before Cena. They could have him go over the Miz and then lose to Cena . I guess depending on Rock's willingness to do all this
Actually makes more sense to me BUT given what i just said, 'sense' does not prevail in situations like this.

[Ajendo]

because the Rock is NOT a full time performer and him winning does nothing for him or anyone else

he is past the point of having to win to get himself over

Then what's the point? Imo, it's not about titles, it's about pride and star power, we all know the Rock is the infinitely bigger star but still.

[SpideyVille]

What I'm thinking is Hogan and Rock was just more special because they both got strong love. The reaction from the fans and how they were at war with each other. Rocky! Rocky!!! Hogan! Hogan!!!! Where here it doesn't feel the same because with Cena it's always Love and Hate. It's all ROCKY!!!! and Cena sucks!!!!

Plus the outside of wrestling attention those two both got and still get. Two huge wrestling stars who broke out into the mainstream in their times, duking it out now!!!!Cena's big with the merchandise and the cash, but in the end I wouldn't put him in their class.
Yeah Hogan vs Rock was crazy because you really didn't know who to root for. Most fans were rooting for both interchangeably. Personally, I've never been a Hogan fan, so it was easy to root for the Rock, but even then, I remember them trying to make him look like the heel even though it was Hogan who was still in the nWo at the time.

[Ajendo]

the money he generates says otherwise, the crowd reactions say otherwise.....people either love him or hate him absolutely....better than folks just not caring (which is the category the Miz is in)

Yeah but that's not saying much at all. Seriously, with the fandom the wwf/e has, they're not all going to abandon wrestling because the attitude era/stars are pretty much over with. Cena's the only major thing being pushed hard in what used to be an amazing sports entertainment program. Jericho's speech when he debuted in the company is 100%relevent now. But back then, the attitude era, the wwe was full of stars and it showed tremendous skill for people like HHH, Stone cold and the Rock to really stand out the way they did and create such an impact in what was easily the most competitive era of wwf/e history.

[BlackLantern]

Then what's the point? Imo, it's not about titles, it's about pride and star power, we all know the Rock is the infinitely bigger star but still.

yes he is the bigger star...he's already done everything he has needed to do as a wrestler

what good does it do to have him beat two guys who still have their career in front of them?

[Nemi]

Cena is never going to go full heel because, like he said, he does it for the kids.

They target the youth, that's what they do!





That's why I said i wanted him to act a bit heelish, or maybe just have a bit more of an edge. Even if he's still a face but loses the ***** eatin grin and the happy go lucky attitude. Just cause his fanbase is the youth doesn't mean he needs to act like captain planet. It's not like they all decide to stop having their parents buy his tshirts and front row tickets if he does.

[BlackLantern]

Yeah but that's not saying much at all. Seriously, with the fandom the wwf/e has, they're not all going to abandon wrestling because the attitude era/stars are pretty much over with. Cena's the only major thing being pushed hard in what used to be an amazing sports entertainment program. Jericho's speech when he debuted in the company is 100%relevent now. But back then, the attitude era, the wwe was full of stars and it showed tremendous skill for people like HHH, Stone cold and the Rock to really stand out the way they did and create such an impact in what was easily the most competitive era of wwf/e history.

wrestling is cyclical....just prior to the attitude era, the WWF/E had its worst period, both creatively and financially due to the exodus of guys like Hogan, Savage who had turned that company into a powerhouse

wrestling is just in a down period, due to many factors.....no competition being the main one

[Wylie Times]

because the Rock is NOT a full time performer and him winning does nothing for him or anyone else

he is past the point of having to win to get himself over

Plus it's not like Rock has ever had a problem with jobbing. He can take losses in the ring and get his heat back right away on the mic. He does need to do something to let younger fans know what's up. As I said earlier Rock hasn't won a match in a VERY long time. His last two feuds he jobbed to Goldberg and Evolution.

[Zanham]

That's why I said i wanted him to act a bit heelish, or maybe just have a bit more of an edge. Even if he's still a face but loses the ***** eatin grin and the happy go lucky attitude. Just cause his fanbase is the youth doesn't mean he needs to act like captain planet. It's not like they all decide to stop having their parents buy his tshirts and front row tickets if he does.

I honestly don't think he's ever going to go full 'heel' because his persona is one that is so easily hateable... almost too easy. I say 'almost' because if a small number of people are on to what's actually going on then it is a lot easier to truely hate him or whoever, whatever. Some say strength in numbers, I say strength in getting all the knowledge and power for one's self.

As for the basic 'acting more heelish' I think the best we could hope for is him coming out to some new entrance music at 'Mania or none at all, MAYBE without the hat or whatever. THAT would be a sign that the worm has definitely turned in regards to John Cena.

If that scenario doesn't unfold, he'll likely win the title and maybe we do get the full heel turn on RAW the following night. I am starting to be of the belief that he's never going to go full heel, and it's THAT 'slow-burn effect' that may ultimately reveal the truth and cement him as one of the most hated pro-wrestlers in history in the end. That may be because, the truth is... he was a heel the whole time.

But, just when I think he won't go full heel... he does.:down

[spidey-dude]

i think i have figured out why i cant stand cena

because he is ALWAYS there

in their primes stone cold, taker, hhh, rock etc.... all dissapeared every now and again for a few months (due to injuries movies or whatever reason) in fact stone cold and taker not being around really let rock and hhh shine with their feud for the title and made both guys huge

cena is just always there - always getting the push, some time away would do other stars some good, and not seeing his stale as a 4 month old bread roll character might do the fans alot of good

[Nemi]

i think i have figured out why i cant stand cena

because he is ALWAYS there

in their primes stone cold, taker, hhh, rock etc.... all dissapeared every now and again for a few months (due to injuries movies or whatever reason) in fact stone cold and taker not being around really let rock and hhh shine with their feud for the title and made both guys huge

cena is just always there - always getting the push, some time away would do other stars some good, and not seeing his stale as a 4 month old bread roll character might do the fans alot of good

That's a very good point. Even when he got fired he still showed up the next week and ended up getting hired back a month later without ever missing a single Raw. He never so much as took his knee pads off.

[BlackLantern]

in most cases it was injuries...Austin didn't get to the WWE till he was in his mid to late thirties....and had lingering injuries he kept putting off and putting off....Taker has been banged up since 2000

so are you wishing injury on Cena so he's off TV for a bit?

[RetroNaz]

the money he generates says otherwise, the crowd reactions say otherwise.....people either love him or hate him absolutely....better than folks just not caring (which is the category the Miz is in)

I get what you're saying, but WWE decided to pull the trigger on Miz - and right they were.

You know as well as all of us that WWE are very short on main event talent that will see them past the retirements or phase outs of the older guys like HHH, Undertaker, Edge, Rey, Big Show, etc.

They need to keep the title on him to help generate that heat and make him important.

It's no wonder that the fans are made to care very little about the guy when the focus of his title match isn't even on him - the champion. That's not his fault, that's poor booking.

By rights, Cena should not have been facing Miz for the belt if they decided to bring the Rock in to start his semi feud with Cena. No matter what, the belt should be THE most important thing in the company. Streak or no streak. Rock or no Rock.

This brings me back to my original point. WWE have poorly booked Miz as champion. But, they always seem to do that for first timers these days and have continued this trend for a long time now. It's a bad way to make their champion look, it's a bad way to represent their heavyweight division and it's just another nail in the "it's more entertainment than sports" coffin.

[Nemi]

No, definitely not. I may not like what they are doing with his character but I do respect the hell out of him as a person so I would never wish injury on him. But like the angle I mentioned where he got fired and then made that big speech about finally going home to see his mom. That should have been his chance to go and take a very well deserved vacation.

[The Sage]

because the Rock is NOT a full time performer and him winning does nothing for him or anyone else

he is past the point of having to win to get himself over

Then what's the point? Imo, it's not about titles, it's about pride and star power, we all know the Rock is the infinitely bigger star but still.

It's pretty much what Black Lantern said.

Take Hogan vs Shawn Michaels. Yes, Hogan's the bigger star, but Shawn was the guy still actively wrestling in the company, still entertaining the fans, still working with the rising stars of that time. It made zero sense for Hogan to win beyond politics since he was only wrestling once a year.

Sometimes it's beyond pride and star power. Sometimes it's who's around to work with the new guys and sustain the company.

Now if they do something where Rock beats Cena, and then Cena beats him in a rematch, or vice versa, that's cool. But if there's to be just one match, Cena should win.

[Ajendo]

yes he is the bigger star...he's already done everything he has needed to do as a wrestler

what good does it do to have him beat two guys who still have their career in front of them?

What harm does it do to have the Rock beat them? Miz and Cena I'm sure have many more years in the business, them being beat by a more popular and superior athlete is going to hurt the company or the characters. After the disgrace that was the Rock losing horrendously to lesnar and especially goldberg, he deserves to anihalate Cena of all people.

[BlackLantern]

What harm does it do to have the Rock beat them? Miz and Cena I'm sure have many more years in the business, them being beat by a more popular and superior athlete is going to hurt the company or the characters. After the disgrace that was the Rock losing horrendously to lesnar and especially goldberg, he deserves to anihalate Cena of all people.

I agree...it does hurt them, the guys who are still working week in and week out with the WWE

the Rock (as it is now) is an attraction, not a wrestler....if he wants to come back full time, he can beat everyone he wants...but until then...he can **** off back to Hollywood

[Spider-ManHero12]

I hate Cena and Miz and I don't like the direction WWE has gone at all, so seeing the Rock defeat Miz and Cena will be fantastic, IMO. It's going to be a great pleasure to see the Rock do what he does best.

[RetroNaz]

What harm does it do to have the Rock beat them? Miz and Cena I'm sure have many more years in the business, them being beat by a more popular and superior athlete is going to hurt the company or the characters. After the disgrace that was the Rock losing horrendously to lesnar and especially goldberg, he deserves to anihalate Cena of all people.

The better question to ask is what does Rock gain from the win?

Nothing.

And the important thing here is what WWE gain. They need Cena to go over the Rock. He is their face of the company now, and I could see Rock gladly laying down to pass the torch.

[Zanham]

i think i have figured out why i cant stand cena

because he is ALWAYS there

That's a solid point but my reasoning is that I simply do not trust him. His smiles are too big, something's definitely wrong there and he's at the center of it...

I think he's the Anti-Christ.

The better question to ask is what does Rock gain from the win?

Nothing.

And the important thing here is what WWE gain. They need Cena to go over the Rock. He is their face of the company now, and I could see Rock gladly laying down to pass the torch.

Ugh.

I'm not usually one to do something like this and use someone else's line but...

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HE GAINS FROM WINNING!!!

Rock is a 3rd generation star with that company and there is NO WAY IN HELL that Cena outlasts Rock in WWE or whatever the hell other name's it takes on!

[BlackLantern]

I hate Cena and Miz and I don't like the direction WWE has gone at all, so seeing the Rock defeat Miz and Cena will be fantastic, IMO. It's going to be a great pleasure to see the Rock do what he does best.

make crap movies??

[Nemi]

HEY! The Tooth Fairy was a maspterpiece of cinema. I hear Daniel Day Lewis was moved to tears when he saw it.

[Zanham]

HEY! The Tooth Fairy was a maspterpiece of cinema. I hear Daniel Day Lewis was moved to tears when he saw it.

Actually, I think Southland Tales was better than any movie any wrestler has ever made and really, it might be one of my favorite movies of all time... seriously... like all-time... like forever dude.

[RetroNaz]

That's a solid point but my reasoning is that I simply do not trust him. His smiles are too big, something's definitely wrong there and he's at the center of it...

I think he's the Anti-Christ.



Ugh.

I'm not usually one to do something like this and use someone else's line but...

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HE GAINS FROM WINNING!!!

Rock is a 3rd generation star with that company and there is NO WAY IN HELL that Cena outlasts Rock in WWE or whatever the hell other name's it takes on!

Hmm you seem to be missing the point.

Firstly, The Rock is now Dwayne Johnson, movie star. He is no longer an active wrestler or part of the full time roster.

Cena, love him or hate him (and you clearly dislike the guy) IS the face of the company.

Whether you want the Rock to beat him or not, doesn't matter in the context of what's best for the company.

It's good business for Cena to beat the Rock. And it's as simple as that. It's not about who is stronger or better than the other. After all, it's a fake sport with pre-determined results.

It's all about passing the torch, kind of like how Hogan did it for The Rock. And it does matter what is gained, after all WWE would have reached out to The Rock for a purpose. And if they decide to have Cena and Rock feud, then my conclusion is they do it for the purpose of solidifying John Cena as their number one guy for the current generation.

[The Sage]

I get what you're saying, but WWE decided to pull the trigger on Miz - and right they were.

You know as well as all of us that WWE are very short on main event talent that will see them past the retirements or phase outs of the older guys like HHH, Undertaker, Edge, Rey, Big Show, etc.

They need to keep the title on him to help generate that heat and make him important.

It's no wonder that the fans are made to care very little about the guy when the focus of his title match isn't even on him - the champion. That's not his fault, that's poor booking.

By rights, Cena should not have been facing Miz for the belt if they decided to bring the Rock in to start his semi feud with Cena. No matter what, the belt should be THE most important thing in the company. Streak or no streak. Rock or no Rock.

This brings me back to my original point. WWE have poorly booked Miz as champion. But, they always seem to do that for first timers these days and have continued this trend for a long time now. It's a bad way to make their champion look, it's a bad way to represent their heavyweight division and it's just another nail in the "it's more entertainment than sports" coffin.


I agree mostly, but I think they're past the point of making Miz important. That opportunity ended. They really should've kept with the Cena/Punk program that began in January. Punk was a worthy challenge to Cena, and it would've kept Cena out of the title hunt. They could've did the Orton/Miz match at Wrestlemania instead, may throw Morrison in to make it a triple-threat to keep the match up fresh.

[RetroNaz]

I agree mostly, but I think they're past the point of making Miz important. That opportunity ended. They really should've kept with the Cena/Punk program that began in January. Punk was a worthy challenge to Cena, and it would've kept Cena out of the title hunt. They could've did the Orton/Miz match at Wrestlemania instead, may throw Morrison in to make it a triple-threat to keep the match up fresh.

It can't really end when it hasn't properly begun ;)

I have a feeling they'll book his next title run with a little more focus on him.

Probably by his 7th title run, they'll actually take him seriously. LOL that's how they book them these days isn't it?

[The Sage]

What harm does it do to have the Rock beat them? Miz and Cena I'm sure have many more years in the business, them being beat by a more popular and superior athlete is going to hurt the company or the characters. After the disgrace that was the Rock losing horrendously to lesnar and especially goldberg, he deserves to anihalate Cena of all people.

The fact that Miz and Cena have more years in the business than the Rock automatically says Rock shouldn't defeat them.

Rock was supposed to lose to Lesnar. Lesnar was their next big star, Rock was leaving. Same with Goldberg almost. Both left sadly, but at each time, that's what needed to happen. When you leave, you put someone over, that's the time honored tradition.

[spidey-dude]

in most cases it was injuries...Austin didn't get to the WWE till he was in his mid to late thirties....and had lingering injuries he kept putting off and putting off....Taker has been banged up since 2000

so are you wishing injury on Cena so he's off TV for a bit?

i wouldnt wish an injury on anyone, but he i just such a stale character, i actually liked him when i started watching again but i cant stand him now, its so boring, he needs to go away for a while

[The Sage]

It can't really end when it hasn't properly begun ;)

I have a feeling they'll book his next title run with a little more focus on him.

Probably by his 7th title run, they'll actually take him seriously. LOL that's how they book them these days isn't it?

Haha, 7th. :lmao:

The number of title reigns main-event guys have now is beyond ridiculous. All the respect to Edge, he's always been a solid worker, and was one of the best heels in the business, but he's already a ten time champion. Cena's a nine-time, Triple H at thirteen. Heck, CM Punk's at three.

Flair was in the business for thirty years and got up to 16. Come on man. :doh:

i wouldnt wish an injury on anyone, but he i just such a stale character, i actually liked him when i started watching again but i cant stand him now, its so boring, he needs to go away for a while

Cena's stale but for the first time last night, he sounded pretty natural instead of the usual over the top stuff. I'd wish he'd stay consistent with that.

Cena definitely needs to go on vacation but they've done a poor job of making new guys that there's no one to take his spot. When Austin went down, the Rock was there to step in. There's no one now.

[Hunter Rider]

The thing about the attack that made it seem heelish, to me, wasn't that Cena did it, but it's how he did it, and the little way he acted about it afterwords. He had a really smug sense of "Yea, I just did that". At least that's how it came off to me.

Yeah, it was that little smirk Cena did after he'd hit Rock with the AA that I thought came off kind of heelish.

And, I do want to respond to one thing that got lost in the shuffle of the last thread:

Hunter - no, I don't want you, or Metallo, to stop addressing my posts. But the annoyance and frustration comes from the way you address them.

I'm not saying y'all are being hostile or hateful (although, Hunter, you did once tell me that my way of watching wrestling was "disrespectful to the business"). But it's annoying when I tell you what it is that I like about The Miz (or dislike about Ziggler, or whatever the guy in question is), and all the response is boils down to "Well The Miz isn't as good as this guy at that, or that guy at this", stating it to me as though it's fact. You know, the same thing you get after me for doing?

BlackLantern craps on Miz just as hard as anyone in this thread, but I don't think I've ever interacted with him ONCE over The Miz. Cuz when he does it, even though he's crapping on The Miz, he's not picking apart my points one by one telling me they are wrong. He's stating that he hates The Miz. It's clear to me that Lantern doesn't like Miz, and doesn't think he should be in the company, let alone main eventing. But I've never had a back and forth with him. Cuz he's not picking at me when he does it.

It -does- feel like you and Metallo are picking at me (not picking -ON- me, I just want to make that clear) when I can explain why I like guy A, or hate guy B, and all you guys do is pick apart my points one by one and essentially tell me I'm wrong for thinking that.

Yea, y'all can engage me. Y'all can disagree with me. When I say "I like The Miz because I think he has the best character in the business right now", then reply back and say "The Miz isn't really doing good character work for me", don't reply back and say "Well The Rock, Austin, all did character better in the past, and CM Punk is doing character better now", it sounds like all you are doing is telling me I'm wrong for my opinion, and that y'alls opinion is better, and more informed, or whatever. That because other guys did something better, that I shouldn't enjoy what THIS guy is bringing to the table. That somehow what other people did or do invalidates what this guy does, thus making my opinion on THIS guy invalid because of something OTHER guys are doing.

Again, I'm not saying you're picking *on* me. I'm not saying you're doing it to be hostile. But it does feel kind of... arrogant. You accuse me of trying to stir the pot, and yea maybe I do use a bit of extreme language when expressing my opinion, when I say I *HATE* Ziggler, or what have you. It's cuz this thread can often times feel like a bunch of know it alls patting themselves on the back for being so "enlightened", and doing nothing but bashing certain guys day in and day out, for being the easy, mainstream targets that only the "unwashed masses" could ever enjoy.

I'm not saying -don't- engage me, but it does get annoying when your responses feel like you're constantly criticizing and judging the way I view wrestling because my mentality towards it is different than your mentality towards it. And yes, you HAVE said things that imply that - telling me my way of watching wrestling is disrespectful to the business, and constantly making criticisms and assumptions about how I view wrestling, and paint it in such a negative light, like your remark earlier about me not caring about matches, and how I'd buy a PPV just to watch a bunch of promos.

There is an obvious failure to communicate, between myself and you, and myself and Metallo, a failure to communicate that none of us have with anyone else in this thread. So it's obvious that what the 3 of us are doing is pushing each other's buttons in some way.

About the comment of you disrespecting the business, I said it because you display such little regard for the craft these guys break their backs learning, and risk their health executing out there night after night, maybe you don't mean to but your attitude to the actually wrestling part of wrestling comes off as dismissive.

Maybe there is a failure to communicate as I see several of the things you mention above as being things you do and myself and Metallo respond to. Over the last few days I've tried to understand you and my comments about you buying a PPV to see just promos and angles was simply my conclusion based off what you had said.

The Miz is at the heart of this as while you've always had contentious points things have escalated in the last 6 weeks and there's button pushing coming from both sides I agree.

Could be just wishful thinking, but Triple H saying "Shawn, tell him why I'm gonna win" and waiting for a reply from HBK seemed like it was hinting at a one night only reunion of DX.

That crossed my mind and it remains a possibility when you take into consideration the smug smile Taker gave Triple H and the way he talked to Shawn.

As for the miz, the guy's a moron, an entertaining one but I hated how rigt after the people's elbow he gets up and staggers towards the ropes, only for the Rock to throw him out. Miz should have been laid out on the canvas.

I don't rate The Miz but he'll have only been doing what was planned out for the segment, obviously he had to be thrown from the ring so Cena had room, to hit the AA on Rock.

[RetroNaz]

Haha, 7th. :lmao:

The number of title reigns main-event guys have now is beyond ridiculous. All the respect to Edge, he's always been a solid worker, and was one of the best heels in the business, but he's already a ten time champion. Cena's a nine-time, Triple H at thirteen. Heck, CM Punk's at three.

Flair was in the business for thirty years and got up to 16. Come on man. :doh:

I know, it's crazy. It's just the state of the business these days I guess. Quick, recycled feuds.

But wow, Edge is a ten time champion!?

He's a great worker, and fantastic on the mic, but he'll never be mentioned in the same sentence as Flair or Hogan, or Stone Cold or Rock or HHH.

[spidey-dude]

Cena's stale but for the first time last night, he sounded pretty natural instead of the usual over the top stuff. I'd wish he'd stay consistent with that.

Cena definitely needs to go on vacation but they've done a poor job of making new guys that there's no one to take his spot. When Austin went down, the Rock was there to step in. There's no one now.

i didnt like his spot last night

i dunno, when austin went there were probably people who didnt think the rock could fill those boots, give cena a month off and see how it goes

[Zanham]

Hmm you seem to be missing the point.

Firstly, The Rock is now Dwayne Johnson, movie star. He is no longer an active wrestler or part of the full time roster.

Cena, love him or hate him (and you clearly dislike the guy) IS the face of the company.

Whether you want the Rock to beat him or not, doesn't matter in the context of what's best for the company.

It's good business for Cena to beat the Rock. And it's as simple as that. It's not about who is stronger or better than the other. After all, it's a fake sport with pre-determined results.

It's all about passing the torch, kind of like how Hogan did it for The Rock. And it does matter what is gained, after all WWE would have reached out to The Rock for a purpose. And if they decide to have Cena and Rock feud, then my conclusion is they do it for the purpose of solidifying John Cena as their number one guy for the current generation.

But I think you're missing the point.

They're wrestlers first not businessmen...

and Rock's lead is likely stronger than Cena's unless... Cena is 100% without a doubt an unwilling major piece in someone's(s) ploy against the WWE. Then, that would render Cena 100% running on instincts and instincts alone but that also means without his 'silent manager,' or whatever you want to call it, he would be easily disposed of by Rock. Either way or anyway, I think Rock comes out on top over Cena.

[RetroNaz]

The thing with The Rock filling Stone Cold's boots is that WWE actually listened to what the fans wanted and pushed the guy to the moon. It clicked because A; the Rock was a natural, and B; the fans wanted it.

With Cena, it's a little different. I think the kids love what he stands for. He's kind of a super hero, and is basically booked that way.

However, A; he doesn't have the natural ability to completely sell a feud or a match in the same way that The Rock can, and B; the fans are split on him.

WWE want to capitalise on their PG audience, who want Cena. So that trumps what the more vocal fans want.
The kids are the ones that eat up all the merchandise. He sells.

[BlackLantern]

But I think you're missing the point.

They're wrestlers first not businessmen.

in the WWE, they are one and the same

as a wrestler, you have to sell your image, get people behind you, and prove yourself

thats how business works

[RetroNaz]

But I think you're missing the point.

They're wrestlers first not businessmen.

lol dude, this isn't "wrasslin" anymore.

It's predetermined by a creative team who are usually guided by Vince McMahon about the bigger picture.

They couldn't care less about athletics or who is stronger than who, otherwise Big Show would be sitting on the Miz to take the belt off him (heck, they were even a tag team at one point, inbuilt feud right there lol).

WWE is a business. It's run by businessmen and woman. The Wrestlers (who are actually referred to as Super Stars) are there to do a job and what has been decided for them.

[The Sage]

The thing with The Rock filling Stone Cold's boots is that WWE actually listened to what the fans wanted and pushed the guy to the moon. It clicked because A; the Rock was a natural, and B; the fans wanted it.

With Cena, it's a little different. I think the kids love what he stands for. He's kind of a super hero, and is basically booked that way.

However, A; he doesn't have the natural ability to completely sell a feud or a match in the same way that The Rock can, and B; the fans are split on him.

WWE want to capitalise on their PG audience, who want Cena.

I'm gonna have to disagree. Cena was initially pushed because of the fans, remember? It was the Doctor of Thuganomics persona that got the crowd behind him and carried him to the top. The problem is as soon as he got up there, and they put their WWE brand on him and started changing his character into what he is now.

Instead of the edgy babyface, he's the milk and cookies PG babyface. And the audience is responding accordingly.

But I think you're missing the point.

They're wrestlers first not businessmen...

and Rock's lead is likely stronger than Cena's.

Other way around actually. They're definitely businessmen first. That's why Montreal 1997 happened, that's why Rock got pinned by Lesnar, that's why Jericho was willing to lose to new guys.


and Rock's lead is likely stronger than Cena's unless... Cena is 100% without a doubt an unwilling major piece in someone's(s) ploy against the WWE. Then, that would render Cena 100% running on instincts and instincts alone but that also means without his 'silent manager,' or whatever you want to call it, he would be easily disposed of by Rock. Either way or anyway, I think Rock comes out on top over Cena

What silent partner? Vince McMahon? :lmao:

[BlackLantern]

that's why Hogan went to WCW

[RetroNaz]

I'm gonna have to disagree. Cena was initially pushed because of the fans, remember? It was the Doctor of Thuganomics persona that got the crowd behind him and carried him to the top. The problem is as soon as he got up there, and they put their WWE brand on him and started changing his character into what he is now.

Instead of the edgy babyface, he's the milk and cookies PG babyface. And the audience is responding accordingly.



Other way around actually. They're definitely businessmen first. That's why Montreal 1997 happened, that's why Rock got pinned by Lesnar, that's why Jericho was willing to lose to new guys.

Good point.

[Zanham]

Other way around actually. They're definitely businessmen first. That's why Montreal 1997 happened, that's why Rock got pinned by Lesnar, that's why Jericho was willing to lose to new guys.

You don't know what you're talking about, go eat some raw meat or something.

Rock got beat by Lesnar and Goldberg because the travel caught up with him. I was never a Rock fan but I really think he might have the best grip on the whole thing and that's what may ultimately lead him to victory over Cena if he chooses to give it another a go. I don't care either way, much, I'm not going to urge or pressure these guys into going forward with this or that. That's just how I see it at this point.

[RetroNaz]

LOL, that's one way to respond to a valid point.