View Full Version : They FINALLY Give The X-Men Films a Large Scope!
Catman
06-06-2011, 07:34 PM
America. Russia. England. Germany. Switzerland. Argentina. This movie was all over the place. I've waited 11 years and 5 movies for this. The other X-Men films always felt so... small scale to me. We finally got an X-Men film that felt global and epic.
SuperSoldier985
06-06-2011, 07:38 PM
HELLS YEAH
..and who knows where Shaw and Emma were when they were stuck in the ice with the submarine..
Catman
06-06-2011, 07:52 PM
LOL. Yeah, that was a nice touch.
"Get me some ice."
SuperSoldier985
06-06-2011, 08:02 PM
LOL. Yeah, that was a nice touch.
"..and this needs ice."
Fixed. :word:
Quetzal
06-06-2011, 08:04 PM
Lol I loved that part *Opens Sub hatch*
Yea the pacing, the feel, and expanse felt great.
Lord Blackbolt
06-06-2011, 08:06 PM
Yeah, that's one of the aspects I loved. It shows you that Vaughn is one hell of a director. I'll watch anything that guy directs after this. He's the Justin Lin of the X-men franchise.
conaniscool
06-06-2011, 08:12 PM
X2 coulda' had an epic feel... You know, with the whole Dark Cerebro killing all the mutants in the world thing, but Singer didn't have the directing chops to pull it off. Same with Superman Returns. Thank god for Vaughn.
I thought X2 had a great sense of scope. The film feels just as big as First Class does.
Catman
06-06-2011, 08:30 PM
It shows you that Vaughn is one hell of a director.
I just find it amazing that he shot this movie almost entirely in England. He really went out of his way to find convincing locations.
I thought X2 had a great sense of scope.
Bryan Singer didn't really choose good locations. New York. Washington. Canada? It feels small. It doesn't feel global like First Class.
Well, global and scope aren't the same thing. I'm certain they may walk hand in hand occasionally, but one can exist without the other.
SuperSoldier985
06-06-2011, 08:32 PM
You know, with the whole Dark Cerebro killing all the mutants in the world thing, but Singer didn't have the directing chops to pull it off
Ignorance. :o :doh:
The truth is, they had a lot scripted for those scenes, but they ran out of time and money.
I think First Class and X2 are both fantastic. I don't get why someone has to put down Singer to praise Vaughn, especially when they worked hand in hand on restoring this franchise.
Catman
06-06-2011, 08:33 PM
The truth is, they ran out of time and money.
Typical Singer. The great thing about Matthew Vaughn is that he was a former producer. He knows how to manage a budget. Singer is too much of a spender.
Nell2ThaIzzay
06-06-2011, 08:42 PM
I thought X-Men: The Last Stand felt pretty epic.
X2 certainly had its moments.
But I do understand about X-Men: First Class. It has a different feel from the rest that make it stand out.
conaniscool
06-06-2011, 08:54 PM
I think First Class and X2 are both fantastic. I don't get why someone has to put down Singer to praise Vaughn, especially when they worked hand in hand on restoring this franchise.
Well, I just hate Singer in general for ruining X-men and Superman. Good thing better directors have taken his place in both franchises.
EDIT: Never mind, opinions are opinions.
Catman
06-06-2011, 09:03 PM
I thought X-Men: The Last Stand felt pretty epic.
Only the ending.
Nell2ThaIzzay
06-06-2011, 09:08 PM
Only the ending.
Mostly, sure. But I thought the psychic duel between Xavier and Jean Grey was pretty powerful and epic as well.
Magneto's 2 speeches I felt gave incredible weight to the build.
FreeRadical
06-06-2011, 09:10 PM
First Class did feel epic, like a Bond film. I wonder if Genosha will be in the sequels?
Pink Ranger
06-06-2011, 10:23 PM
What in heavens name do you mean? X1 and X2 visited exotic locales: they went to northern Canada twice??! How many movie franchises can say they've done that? :(
Sun_Down
06-06-2011, 10:29 PM
The scope was cool (especially Mags hunting Nazis), but was also a bit too much for Vaughn to handle. It had the same disjointed, scatter-brained feel that plagued X3. Honestly, it made me appreciate the way Singer kept a handle on everything.
JerseyJoker
06-06-2011, 10:40 PM
X2 coulda' had an epic feel... You know, with the whole Dark Cerebro killing all the mutants in the world thing, but Singer didn't have the directing chops to pull it off. Same with Superman Returns. Thank god for Vaughn.
There is a difference between directing chops and money to shoot extra scenes, that most likely wasn't in his budget.
Learn the difference.
conaniscool
06-06-2011, 10:45 PM
There is a difference between directing chops and money to shoot extra scenes, that most likely wasn't in his budget.
Learn the difference.
What's his excuse for keeping the focus on Wolverine yet again? Especially when Cyke and Jean coulda' used more development to give her sacrifice at the end more emotional resonance.
They didn't have 'nuff money for that, too?
:whatever:
conaniscool
06-06-2011, 10:47 PM
The scope was cool (especially Mags hunting Nazis), but was also a bit too much for Vaughn to handle. It had the same disjointed, scatter-brained feel that plagued X3. Honestly, it made me appreciate the way Singer kept a handle on everything.
It's easy to have a handle on things when you're just remaking your first X-men movie with a bigger budget.
mclay18
06-06-2011, 11:02 PM
I just find it amazing that he shot this movie almost entirely in England. He really went out of his way to find convincing locations.
They did do some location work in Russia, and the climatic island scene was shot in Georgia.
Thundercrack85
06-06-2011, 11:10 PM
Wolverine actually traveled a fair bit. They just didn't emphasize it.
Catman
06-06-2011, 11:47 PM
They did do some location work in Russia, and the climatic island scene was shot in Georgia.
I know nothing about Russia. I didn't know you could recreate Cuba in Georgia. lol.
It's easy to have a handle on things when you're just remaking your first X-men movie with a bigger budget.
Which isn't really the case with X-Men and X2, so kudos to them for having a handle on things.
Robin91939
06-07-2011, 12:26 AM
I can feel this complaint in X-men, even though we went from Mississippi, to Canada, to New York, it felt small, intimate.
X2: X-men United, however, felt sweeping and big to me. Epic in scope. It's not just about locals for scope...it's drama, story and what's at stake. Film two felt very big to me...
X3: The Last Stand felt rushed....even when we were going from local to local it was too quick, to jerky and awkwardly transitioned... The climatic battle at the end never felt as big as it should have...I feel like this was because it felt soundstaged (whether or not is was, doesn't matter)... It also had terrible emotional stakes, so the scope suffers.
X-men Origins: Wolverine.... well, Wraith and Logan traveled from Las Vegas to New Orleans on motorcycle in what seemed like minutes...and they were just like "yeah, let's go" about it... Hey, Mr. Gavin Hood, that's like 2900 miles!
X-men: First Class felt appropriately big. It had world wide stakes, we saw world traveling...but was intimate in the right spots as well. Perfect scope and tone for this picture.
-R
Robin91939
06-07-2011, 12:35 AM
What's his excuse for keeping the focus on Wolverine yet again? Especially when Cyke and Jean coulda' used more development to give her sacrifice at the end more emotional resonance.
They didn't have 'nuff money for that, too?
:whatever:
X2: X-men United was based HEAVILY off of "God Loves, Man Kills" (actually my favorite X-book, as well). It was as faithful an adaptation as could be made in the context of the films, too. The took liberties, did away with the mind control machine, added Mastermind, brought in Deathstrike and included Magneto as another villain in the end (in the novel he only aided the X-men against Stryker)...
But Cyclops was a prisoner of Stryker's for the majority of the book....as well as Storm and Charles.
Singer, Harris, and Dougherty have said that they were going to expand Scott's role in the sequel, and that if the Phoenix saga was going to be used (and it was going to be, including the White Queen) Scott was going to take center stage...
This wasn't his film... He got screwed in the third picture because of sour grapes from Fox.
-R
psylockolussus
06-07-2011, 12:52 AM
X-Men: First Class is a prequel, of course it will different compare to the 1st X-movies and will try to be different.
XOW went to different countries too like America, Nigeria and Canada and Japan (the scene after the credits).
Catman
06-07-2011, 12:58 AM
X2: X-men United, however, felt sweeping and big to me. Epic in scope. It's not just about locals for scope...it's drama, story and what's at stake.
Drama and story play a part, but so does location. X-Men: First Class did a better job of combining an epic story with grand locations. As many have said, it felt very... James Bond.
Nell2ThaIzzay
06-07-2011, 12:58 AM
X2: X-men United was based HEAVILY off of "God Loves, Man Kills" (actually my favorite X-book, as well). It was as faithful an adaptation as could be made in the context of the films, too. The took liberties, did away with the mind control machine, added Mastermind, brought in Deathstrike and included Magneto as another villain in the end (in the novel he only aided the X-men against Stryker)...
But Cyclops was a prisoner of Stryker's for the majority of the book....as well as Storm and Charles.
Singer, Harris, and Dougherty have said that they were going to expand Scott's role in the sequel, and that if the Phoenix saga was going to be used (and it was going to be, including the White Queen) Scott was going to take center stage...
This wasn't his film... He got screwed in the third picture because of sour grapes from Fox.
-R
Singer walked. Superman was more important to him than the Phoenix Saga.
psylockolussus
06-07-2011, 01:38 AM
Singer walked. Superman was more important to him than the Phoenix Saga.
One of the worst decisions he made.
If he didn't leave, X3 would have been so much better.
Robin91939
06-07-2011, 01:48 AM
Singer walked. Superman was more important to him than the Phoenix Saga.
I understand Singer walked....and you can't really blame the man.
1. He dreamt of directing a Superman film his whole life...
2. He had already directed two great X-men films and gave the next director a lay-up with the end of the second film...too bad Ratner was rejected by the rim...
3. He offered to do BOTH film, but Fox said "no".
I don't understand the hate for Singer...the guy is extremely talented, even if he is a bit eccentric. He outlined what would have been a FAR superior X3, listen to the /Slashfilm interview with Dougherty... He's made some very great films in his career: Apt Pupil, X-men, Usual Suspects, X2: X-men United, Superman Returns, Valkarie... all very well made films. It was defintely more Fox's fault than Singer's for leaving his X3 behind. He offered to do it a year and a half later, allowing him to do both Superman Returns and a third X-men picture, but Fox said no. If he had been allowed to do it-- we may not have had ever seen this film, and we may be on X4 or X5 by now...
-R
psylockolussus
06-07-2011, 01:51 AM
If he had been allowed to do it-- we may not have had ever seen this film, and we may be on X4 or X5 by now...
-R
I don't think so
X3 - 2007
X4 - 2010
X5 - 2013
Robin91939
06-07-2011, 01:59 AM
I don't think so
X3 - 2007
X4 - 2010
X5 - 2013
What do you mean, "you don't think so"?
You just proved my point right.
I said we'd be on a Bryan Singer X4 or X5 by now...and you then give the timeline that says, his X4 would have come out a year ago.... That means we'd be on X4 or X5 by now... :doh:
-R
psylockolussus
06-07-2011, 02:05 AM
What do you mean, "you don't think so"?
You just proved my point right.
I said we'd be on a Bryan Singer X4 or X5 by now...and you then give the timeline that says, his X4 would have come out a year ago.... That means we'd be on X4 or X5 by now... :doh:
-R
I mean X5 is still in production stages, it has yet to come out, if that timeline happened.
xii22_loop
06-07-2011, 02:05 AM
X2 coulda' had an epic feel... You know, with the whole Dark Cerebro killing all the mutants in the world thing, but Singer didn't have the directing chops to pull it off. Same with Superman Returns. Thank god for Vaughn.
More like Fox wouldn't let him do it. Do you know how restrictive they were with him on those 2 films.
... Tom Rothman just "wouldn't" allow giant robots in a Fox film. (the area sentinal ideas 4 for the 2nd movie).
Nell2ThaIzzay
06-07-2011, 02:52 AM
I understand Singer walked....and you can't really blame the man.
1. He dreamt of directing a Superman film his whole life...
2. He had already directed two great X-men films and gave the next director a lay-up with the end of the second film...too bad Ratner was rejected by the rim...
3. He offered to do BOTH film, but Fox said "no".
I don't understand the hate for Singer...the guy is extremely talented, even if he is a bit eccentric. He outlined what would have been a FAR superior X3, listen to the /Slashfilm interview with Dougherty... He's made some very great films in his career: Apt Pupil, X-men, Usual Suspects, X2: X-men United, Superman Returns, Valkarie... all very well made films. It was defintely more Fox's fault than Singer's for leaving his X3 behind. He offered to do it a year and a half later, allowing him to do both Superman Returns and a third X-men picture, but Fox said no. If he had been allowed to do it-- we may not have had ever seen this film, and we may be on X4 or X5 by now...
-R
I dont blame Singer if his heart was with Superman, but I dont blame Fox either. At the end of the day, this is a business, and Fox cant put one of their biggest products on hold while the guy goes off to make a movie for another studio.
Im not saying it was handled professionally, but I certainly dont blame Fox for moving on without Singer after his decision was made.
What if Singer decided after Superman to take on another project? Where would that leave Fox then? They cant just put it on hold for one guy.
As far as Singer's treatment goes, Singer took that with him. Rather was left with the Matthew Vaughn script, with some post Vaughn touch ups from Kinberg and Penn. Rather didn't have enough time to make significant changes. His biggest contribution to the story was moving the Golden Gate scene to the finale.
EnDz0n3
06-07-2011, 03:03 AM
I thought X2 had a great sense of scope. The film feels just as big as First Class does.
Agreed.
I felt with first class that it jumped around too much to different locales in a short amount of time. Honestly, it felt kinda amateurish of Vaughn and his writers, where some other director would have been able to massage that element so it did not seem I don't know if forced is the word.
I get the juxtaposition of Eric's treatment in the Polish concentration camp against Charles' posh upbringing in Upstate New York but again too much jumping around, I found.
Silvermoth
06-07-2011, 05:09 AM
ha, I love the original two films but I see what OP means. It can only get better from here when the X-men start arriving from all across the world not just America.
Catman
06-10-2011, 03:41 AM
If he didn't leave, X3 would have been so much better.
And his career wouldn't be in the toilet either. Superman Returns wasn't exactly the success everyone was expecting.
Midnight Black
06-10-2011, 12:22 PM
Meh, I think the story of X3 would have been better, but given X1 & X2 it would have had the same weak points that those films had. They needed an action film director, just not the one they got or at least with the script they wrote.
It was a great idea to make the Cuban missiles conflict one of the center pieces of the story which allowed for a larger scope in that sense and a Bond like feel.
Deviating a little from the subject, had Singer didn't leave the X-men franchise back then, I'm sure he would have completed one of the greatest superhero trilogies of all time, and I think my favorite.
SuperSoldier985
06-11-2011, 12:15 AM
Deviating a little from the subject, had Singer didn't leave the X-men franchise back then, I'm sure he would have completed one of the greatest superhero trilogies of all time, and I think my favorite.
Hell to the yeah
I still remember back then after seeing X2, I used to think myself everything looked great for future X-men sequels. And I was salivating what Singer would do with the Phoenix Saga. Then suddenly I learned of his departure from Fox and thought to myself, this guy has a gem on his hands and he's throwing it away. Good thing he made some amends with his contribution to XMFC.
marvelrobbins
06-11-2011, 12:35 AM
Bryan Singer's career Is hardly In the tolliet.Superman Returns made 391 Million worldwide.It actully has a world box office similar to Batman Begins.He produces House one of Fox's biggest non Reality hits.Despite tom Cruise's public turning off people Valyrie was a modest hit.Jack The Giant Killer looks to be one of next Year's biggest
films.And In case all you forget he revived the Comic Book genre with X-Men after Batman and Robin almost killed It.
He never signed a deal to do X3.Come summer 2004 and Fox was still stalling on making a deal with him till they were good and ready.Warner Brothers since 2002 wanted him to do Superman.People say J.J. Abrams shouldn't just be expected to do Star Trek.Bryan Singer on same token shouldn't be expected to just wait around till Rothman decided to
make deal.And If It wasn't for Singer Matthew vaughn would never had gotten onto First Class.
That explains a lot of things, and yes, the guy is very talented, but for some reason I enjoy more him doing X-men films :)
marvelrobbins
06-11-2011, 12:53 AM
As do I.He has even admitted that on Superman he probally should have done Instead of sequel to first 2 films a new origin story which pays homage to Richard Donner(Like Smallville did) without being In same Contunity and If he had to do it over again he
wouldn't have left X-Men.
Interesting about big S. Regarding leaving X-men again, I think he learned the lesson j/k :D
SuperSoldier985
06-11-2011, 06:32 PM
I thought Valkyrie had great direction and craft to it.
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