Simon Kinberg Penning First Class Sequel

[FilmNerdJamie]

http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/168795-exclusive-simon-kinberg-writing-x-men-first-class-sequel

[Wesley Dodds]

Yikes! that's a... that's a pretty uninspiring CV he's got there. Why cant Goldman come back?

[Figs]

I don't like jumping to conclusions, but the fact that he wrote X3 has me a tad worried. I liked Sherlock Holmes, but I don't think he's right for the X-men universe.

[Wesley Dodds]

I don't like jumping to conclusions, but the fact that he wrote X3 has me a tad worried. I liked Sherlock Holmes, but I don't think he's right for the X-men universe.


I know! Of ALL the people the coulda gotten to do this, they hired the guy who wrote X-3?! I mean, do Fox just not like the X-Men or something?

[Angamb]

one of the writers of X3???????????????

Hasnt Fox learnt anything or what??????????????

:csad:

Singer should write the story, not him! its his universe....

lord....

[Figs]

I know! Of ALL the people the coulda gotten to do this, they hired the guy who wrote X-3?! I mean, do Fox just not like the X-Men or something?

The problem is, a lot of fanboys liked X-3 because of all the ******** fanboy service. Throwing in all these extra characters just to have them in the movie does not make a good X-men movie. I just hope he is the initial writer and they do rewrites later.

Who knows, maybe he might surprise us this time, and for all I know, maybe it was Ratner who failed at adapting the screenplay since I never read those.

I just hope Vaughn and the same cast return.

[Wesley Dodds]

The problem is, a lot of fanboys liked X-3 because of all the ******** fanboy service. Throwing in all these extra characters just to have them in the movie does not make a good X-men movie. I just hope he is the initial writer and they do rewrites later.

Who knows, maybe he might surprise us this time, and for all I know, maybe it was Ratner who failed at adapting the screenplay since I never read those.

I just hope Vaughn and the same cast return.


Yeah, you're right. But the fact he's written so many other tepid movies doesnt bode well.

I think Vaughn will come back, he seems interested. I read about that idea he had for Magneto being responsible for the Kennedy asassination because he took the credit for solving the missile crisis at the end of FC. That immediately sounds cooler than anything that happened in friggin' Jumper...

[Figs]

Yeah, you're right. But the fact he's written so many other tepid movies doesnt bode well.

I think Vaughn will come back, he seems interested. I read about that idea he had for Magneto being responsible for the Kennedy asassination because he took the credit for solving the missile crisis at the end of FC. That immediately sounds cooler than anything that happened in friggin' Jumper...

I remember reading about that too and would love to see how he would pull that off.

[Vasilios]

Oh no. Please just bring the original writers back.

[rashad]

I'm hoping he's just writing the 1st draft and another writer will take a pass at it. I don't trust him writing this alone. lol

[Lasirius]

Well this is certainly dissapointing. Oh Fox. :doh:

[The Chris]

I'm hoping he's just writing the 1st draft and another writer will take a pass at it.

that's what i'm hoping for. he writes the first draft and vaughn and goldman re-write it.

[Nevincer]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/BlueMutant/GIFS/tv_movies/noooo.gif

[henzINNIT]

Yikes! that's a... that's a pretty uninspiring CV he's got there. Why cant Goldman come back?

Hopefully Vaughn will bring Goldman in for a revised script before he films.

[SuperT]

I didn't know he wrote Sherlock Holmes, I thought the writing in that movie was pretty darn good.

I doubt his script will be the final draft though, don't see Vaughn going to film without his trusted partners Goldman, etc to rewrite.

[Angamb]

but why didnt they call Singer for the story???

I dont get it.

he was the one who made the story for First Class, the story that the studio loved it, Matthew loved it, and everyone loved it.

I Dont get it

[SuperT]

I doubt that they didn't call Singer, he produced the first one and will probably be producing this one as well.

It's still way to early to know who will even be involved in writing the final project.

[X-Maniac]

They have to have a script to move forward, just like they had the Jaimie Moss script for FC in order to give the execs an idea of what they had in mind and how much it would cost/involve.

[Donut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81Jg6L16Mzs

[blueserenity]

Man I thought I would be thrilled when news of a sequel came about.
Why the HELL would FOX hire the guy who contributed to the REASON PEOPLE DIDN'T GO SEE FIRST CLASS? Surely they're aware that despite financial success it was a huge bomb with everyone who went to go see it.

I'm with you SuperT. I cannot see Vaughn allowing someone to write the whole script for him. Like it's been said, when he got the script for First Class he read it and was like "yeah so about rewrites, it's cool if I rewrite everything, right?"
Brink back Stentz and Miller :(

[TheWiseGuy487]

I'm noticing a pattern with this guy. It seems like the quality of his screenplays is dependent on whoever is directing the film.

He wrote X-Men: The Last Stand, which was directed by Brett Ratner, and that ended up being bad.

But, he wrote Sherlock Holmes, which was directed by Guy Ritchie, and that ended up being pretty good.

So, if my math is right, Simon Kinberg + Matthew Vaughn = Pretty Good Screenplay?

Not to mention that Simon Kinberg was a producer on X-Men: First Class, and we know how that turned out.

I'm willing to give this guy another chance. If he does good, then good. If he does bad, then we probably won't hear about him again. It's a win-win situation. :woot:

[Electrix]

I'm thinking that as Jason Flemyng first revealed that they're writing the script he's probably been told by Vaughn. Vaughn is probably involved in some capacity as he'll probably produce/direct the sequel.

In the behind the scenes documentary Kinberg said he emailed Vaughn about First Class after seeing Kick-Ass, so they'll already be in contact about this.

[RachelDawes]

I've been vocal about my desperate need for news of an XFC sequel...I never thought I would go from such a high to such a low so quickly.

I didn't know he wrote Sherlock Holmes, I thought the writing in that movie was pretty darn good.

Agreed. I loved that movie - it was my favorite from 2009 - and that's the only thing giving me hope right now.

I doubt his script will be the final draft though, don't see Vaughn going to film without his trusted partners Goldman, etc to rewrite.

Please let this be true! *prays* Vaughn must return. As long as he's involved I can have confidence in the quality of the sequel.

[BMM]

I guess they have to start somewhere, though I wish it would have been with someone else. If Vaughn returns to direct, however, I'm not too worried about it. With this news, I'm curious to know just how quickly Fox is looking to put a First Class sequel into theaters. Perhaps a year after The Wolverine? Summer 2014?

[blueserenity]

I guess they have to start somewhere, though I wish it would have been with someone else. If Vaughn returns to direct, however, I'm not too worried about it. With this news, I'm curious to know just how quickly Fox is looking to put a First Class sequel into theaters. Perhaps a year after The Wolverine? Summer 2014?

Summer 2014 sounds about right to me. And with that more extended timeline they can also give Vaughn a much lengthier production time. Anything to entice him back. I know FOX wants him back, I just really really hope HE wants to come back for it. :( Who would have thought that sequel news could be so disheartening?

[FilmNerdJamie]

He wrote X-Men: The Last Stand, which was directed by Brett Ratner, and that ended up being bad.

Kinberg did all his work under Matthew Vaughn's supervision. Before Vaughn ran and quit two weeks before filming started.

[Avenger]

Summer 2014 sounds about right to me. And with that more extended timeline they can also give Vaughn a much lengthier production time. Anything to entice him back. I know FOX wants him back, I just really really hope HE wants to come back for it. :( Who would have thought that sequel news could be so disheartening?Yeah, that makes sense to me, and I hope that's what ends up happening. With The Wolverine apparently headed for a 2013 release, it'd make sense for First Class II (I know that won't be the title, just work with me here :oldrazz:) to come out in 2014. Putting two X-movies out in the same year would be a mistake, and I'm sure they won't feel the need to do that. FC2 should get plenty of time to gestate, which I think will only help it.

[Lightning Strykez!]

*sigh*

2005/2006 were dark years here on the Hype, and much was attributed to the writing of this guy.

One thing he'd (and Fox) would like us to forget, is that he also wrote the first Fantastic Four film. :dry:

[flickchick85]

For his last 3 movies, Vaughn and Goldman have gotten to do the final pass at the screenplays. If Vaughn's directing this one, I wouldn't expect that to change. I'll feel much better when they announce Vaughn's involvement in the project.

Kinberg did all his work under Matthew Vaughn's supervision. Before Vaughn ran and quit two weeks before filming started.
Well, Kinberg was hired to write the screenplay in August of 2004. Vaughn was hired to direct 7 months later (March 21st '05), and left the project less than 2.5 months after that (June 1st). Ratner was hired on June 5th, and filming didn't start 'til August so I doubt Kinberg he did all his work under Vaughn's supervision.

[Superhero 101]

Not to happy about Kinberg should get the ones who penned the first one

[mclay18]

This is like the Thor fans raising a stink over Don Payne being hired to write Thor 2, but his script for Thor was rewritten by Ashley Miller & Zack Stentz. It's likely the same will happen for that film, and this one.

I'm pretty sure if Vaughn comes back to direct an X:FC sequel, he and his BFF Jane Goldman will do the final rewrite/pass before filming. No worries, especially if Fox is doing a similar plan like they are for that Rise of the Apes sequel. Does Matthew Vaughn have a sequel clause in his contract when he did X:FC? If so, Fox would be smart to exercise that, to ensure his involvement.

[Balthus Dire]

Why in the name of Odin's beard would they ever hire anyone who wrote even single sentence of X-Men: The Last Stand?


Like......FOX....what the.........:facepalm:

[the a1ant]

I'm hoping he's just writing the 1st draft and another writer will take a pass at it. I don't trust him writing this alone. lol

This. :dry:

I'm positive there will be other writers for future drafts though. Hopefully he's basing his screenplay off a treatment by Singer or Vaughn.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

This news makes me :facepalm:

It's only appropriate that I'm currently listening to Ludacris' "Oh No!" song. :(

Oh, and this is coming from someone who loves X-Men: The Last Stand.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I'm noticing a pattern with this guy. It seems like the quality of his screenplays is dependent on whoever is directing the film.

He wrote X-Men: The Last Stand, which was directed by Brett Ratner, and that ended up being bad.

But, he wrote Sherlock Holmes, which was directed by Guy Ritchie, and that ended up being pretty good.

So, if my math is right, Simon Kinberg + Matthew Vaughn = Pretty Good Screenplay?

Not to mention that Simon Kinberg was a producer on X-Men: First Class, and we know how that turned out.

I'm willing to give this guy another chance. If he does good, then good. If he does bad, then we probably won't hear about him again. It's a win-win situation. :woot:

To the bolded: I don't buy that, because Kinberg wrote the script under the watch and direction of Matthew Vaughn.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

For his last 3 movies, Vaughn and Goldman have gotten to do the final pass at the screenplays. If Vaughn's directing this one, I wouldn't expect that to change. I'll feel much better when they announce Vaughn's involvement in the project.


Well, Kinberg was hired to write the screenplay in August of 2004. Vaughn was hired to direct 7 months later (March 21st '05), and left the project less than 2.5 months after that (June 1st). Ratner was hired on June 5th, and filming didn't start 'til August so I doubt Kinberg he did all his work under Vaughn's supervision.

The infamous "7 Day Script" (which is the foundation of X-Men: The Last Stand, and the source of pretty much every hated element of the movie) was written by Kinberg, Zak Penn, and Matthew Vaughn.

After Vaughn's departure, Penn said something to the effect of "If you guys think -this- is bad (the movie we got) it was going to be 10x worse with Vaughn" (paraphrasing, not quoting) and proceeded to list off a bunch of even worse ideas that were scrapped from the actual shooting script after Vaughn left.

I'm not comfortable with Vaughn, Kinberg, or Penn being involved with any X-Men movies.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Well, having been eagerly anticipating FC2 news, I take this news with a bit of dissapointment, my hate for X3 has dissapated over the years, but it is still a very poor movies in my eyes, and i'll never forget how angry I was with X3 at the time.

Kinberg is a crap writer, his resume is proof of this, even when people say he wrote Sherlock Holmes, which was a decent movie, but a lot of improv was used on set, so I doubt much of his dialogue was in the movie. Very dissapointed with this news, but if I hear in the next few weeks confirmation of Vaughn's involvement, I will be a happy man again.

[chamber-music]

Hopefully Jane Goldman comes and does a rewrite or another draft on Kinbergs script

[BMM]

While I’m no fan of The Last Stand, I wouldn’t be so quick to make comparisons between this movie and that one. You can’t point to Kinberg and Vaughn’s work on The Last Stand and say they’re responsible for all the bad things in the movie, as though they were simply left in a room together and made all the wrong choices.

There were a lot of issues with that movie, some stemming from Singer’s departure and some otherwise, such as unavoidable contract renegotiations (You want the waffling Halle Berry back? You’re probably going to have to give more screen time to her less than stellar Storm at the expense of other characters), short production schedule, studio parameters (The Cure storyline—Rothman’s idea, No Cyclops—Fox supposedly discussed killing him off between movies), asinine decisions from the top down (Rogue being cured), idiotic directorial choices (questionable casting, awful pacing, “I’m the Juggernaut, *****!”), etc.

We didn’t have a lot of those problems with First Class, and the movie came out great. Hopefully, we won’t have those problems with the sequel either.

[blueserenity]

The infamous "7 Day Script" (which is the foundation of X-Men: The Last Stand, and the source of pretty much every hated element of the movie) was written by Kinberg, Zak Penn, and Matthew Vaughn.

After Vaughn's departure, Penn said something to the effect of "If you guys think -this- is bad (the movie we got) it was going to be 10x worse with Vaughn" (paraphrasing, not quoting) and proceeded to list off a bunch of even worse ideas that were scrapped from the actual shooting script after Vaughn left.

I'm not comfortable with Vaughn, Kinberg, or Penn being involved with any X-Men movies.

I'm actually not a fan of any of Vaughn's screenwritten/directed movies except First Class (that's right folks, I'm an anomaly who hated KickAss and Stardust). Regardless of his history with other movies, and even with X3, he clearly has the talent to pull off another XMFC. His ego meant he seemed to have control over even the most finite of details (or at least any control FOX would relinquish to him) and I really believe it's because of him the movie turned out so well. I really feel like he GETS the characters onscreen. I'm not going to get into one of those pathetic arguments with a fanboy about the "ORIGINAL FIRSTCLASS"or about how RAVEN AND CHARLES DIDN'T GROW UP TOGETHER or XAVIER WAS PARALYZED BY A ROCK WITH AN ALIEN NOT A STRAY BULLET. People need to let go of their comic book fandom and allow themselves to appreciate the story and characters as they've been presented through the movies. THAT is what Vaughn gets. And that is why they need him back.

I'm curious to know though what Vaughn's ideas were that could have made X3 "10x worse". It's possible Penn was just covering his @$$ when he threw them out there. Either way I'm very curious to know. Do you have a link?

[merbass]

One bad idea by Vaugh was the heavy sex between Logan and Ororo. Glad that didn't make it.

[blueserenity]

One bad idea by Vaugh was the heavy sex between Logan and Ororo. Glad that didn't make it.

I would have been ok with that actually. I don't know if it goes against comic book continuity and really don't care if it does. It would have at least given the characters some CHARACTER and MV is smart enough that he'd give them a reason to do it, not just make it happen for the sake of sex happening.

[Nerial]

Eh, this doesn't give me warm, happy feelings. At best, this guy can write a fun movie (Sherlocke Holmes), and at worst, he has written real stinkers (X3, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, etc...).

I really want the XM:FC sequel to be darker than the first, and really focus on Erik's further plunge to the dark-side and Charles being totally messed up (not at the beginning of the film, but throughout it). That's not to mention the underlying social impact of mutants in the world.

Anything else would be superficial, and unfortunately, this writer doesn't seem capable of writing anything with deep impact. Maybe with Vaughn and Singer monitoring the script's progress, there's hope it'll come out well.

Still...blah news. :csad:

I'll add one more thing--they are, fortunately, giving the writer time to write, review and revise his script. That process can literally make or break a movie, and X3 is a prime example. Under that strict a timeline, any good writer would have made a stinker as well. Fingers crossed that he'll pull out a gem and everything will have time to review the script before production.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I'm actually not a fan of any of Vaughn's screenwritten/directed movies except First Class (that's right folks, I'm an anomaly who hated KickAss and Stardust). Regardless of his history with other movies, and even with X3, he clearly has the talent to pull off another XMFC. His ego meant he seemed to have control over even the most finite of details (or at least any control FOX would relinquish to him) and I really believe it's because of him the movie turned out so well. I really feel like he GETS the characters onscreen. I'm not going to get into one of those pathetic arguments with a fanboy about the "ORIGINAL FIRSTCLASS"or about how RAVEN AND CHARLES DIDN'T GROW UP TOGETHER or XAVIER WAS PARALYZED BY A ROCK WITH AN ALIEN NOT A STRAY BULLET. People need to let go of their comic book fandom and allow themselves to appreciate the story and characters as they've been presented through the movies. THAT is what Vaughn gets. And that is why they need him back.

I'm curious to know though what Vaughn's ideas were that could have made X3 "10x worse". It's possible Penn was just covering his @$$ when he threw them out there. Either way I'm very curious to know. Do you have a link?

I agree with most of what you said, in particular the parts about the "fanboy" aspects of the film. The examples of what you claim (the different "first class", specifically no Cyclops; the Xavier / Raven relationship; how Xavier was crippled (a change for the better)) all add up to X-Men: First Class quite honestly being the least comic book accurate of the series (yes, more of a departure than X-Men: The Last Stand or X-Men Origins: Wolverine) but I would agree that it is one of the best X-Men movies.

As far as a link goes, no, I don't have a link, it's been so long ago, but I can list off a couple ideas that I remember Penn talking about:

-During the Alcatraz final battle, Vaughn apparently wanted Logan to carry Leech around in a backpack, and run around the battlefield to de-power all the mutants ( :facepalm: )

-During the Danger Room sequence, Vaughn wanted the Sentinel to fry Iceman down to a skeleton, killing him. Then when the simulation would end, he'd defy all logic by having Iceman come back to life and his skin re-appearing ( :facepalm: )

-In Vaughn's defense, I do believe the Logan / Ororo sexual relationship was a Tom Rothman idea. I could be wrong, however.

Despite how great of a movie X-Men: First Class was, I have zero confidence in Matthew Vaughn with this series. I have heard how he speaks of the past series (during his time with X-Men: The Last Stand he showed complete disrespect towards Singer's previous films, and during X-Men: First Class he showed absolute disrespect towards the other 2 movies - which I happen to enjoy quite a bit and feel they are all important chapters of the continuity. I am not a supporter of "reboots", and I do not want the X-Men movies to start rebooting each other, and I do not like the idea that Vaughn is ignoring particular installments of the series). I have heard some of his ideas for the series (pretty much every single hated aspect of X-Men: The Last Stand was from Vaughn's time with the movie - NOT Ratner's - these elements were all part of the 7 Day Script that Vaughn was a part of that got the infamous AICN script review, and Penn has listed other ideas of Vaughn's that were just terrible). And I absolutely hate his overall attitude (he seems much more interested in making "A Matthew Vaughn Film" as opposed to making an X-Men film. During X-Men: The Last Stand he constantly talked about wanting to do a blockbuster so he could become an A-lister, during X-Men: First Class he constantly talked about wanting to make a James Bond movie - X-Men is not James Bond, don't worry about making Bond movies, and worry about making X-Men movies - and the areas where Vaughn tried to stray away from making an X-Men movie, and instead tried to make a Matthew Vaughn version of a James Bond film showed, and the film suffered for it in my eyes)

I don't deny that the guy is capable - he made X-Men: First Class which is easily one of my favorite films of the entire series. I deny his direction. I feel that X-Men: First Class was great in spite of him. I feel it was great because there were people on the production that kept Vaughn on track, and kept him focused on making an X-Men movie, and didn't let him stray too far from what's been previously established. With Vaughn given more control to "ignore" and go his own way, with a ****** screen writer like Simon Kinberg in the mix, I have a real bad feeling for the future of this series.

[blueserenity]

I agree with most of what you said, in particular the parts about the "fanboy" aspects of the film. The examples of what you claim (the different "first class", specifically no Cyclops; the Xavier / Raven relationship; how Xavier was crippled (a change for the better)) all add up to X-Men: First Class quite honestly being the least comic book accurate of the series (yes, more of a departure than X-Men: The Last Stand or X-Men Origins: Wolverine) but I would agree that it is one of the best X-Men movies.

As far as a link goes, no, I don't have a link, it's been so long ago, but I can list off a couple ideas that I remember Penn talking about:

-During the Alcatraz final battle, Vaughn apparently wanted Logan to carry Leech around in a backpack, and run around the battlefield to de-power all the mutants ( :facepalm: )

-During the Danger Room sequence, Vaughn wanted the Sentinel to fry Iceman down to a skeleton, killing him. Then when the simulation would end, he'd defy all logic by having Iceman come back to life and his skin re-appearing ( :facepalm: )

-In Vaughn's defense, I do believe the Logan / Ororo sexual relationship was a Tom Rothman idea. I could be wrong, however.

Despite how great of a movie X-Men: First Class was, I have zero confidence in Matthew Vaughn with this series. I have heard how he speaks of the past series (during his time with X-Men: The Last Stand he showed complete disrespect towards Singer's previous films, and during X-Men: First Class he showed absolute disrespect towards the other 2 movies - which I happen to enjoy quite a bit and feel they are all important chapters of the continuity. I am not a supporter of "reboots", and I do not want the X-Men movies to start rebooting each other, and I do not like the idea that Vaughn is ignoring particular installments of the series). I have heard some of his ideas for the series (pretty much every single hated aspect of X-Men: The Last Stand was from Vaughn's time with the movie - NOT Ratner's - these elements were all part of the 7 Day Script that Vaughn was a part of that got the infamous AICN script review, and Penn has listed other ideas of Vaughn's that were just terrible). And I absolutely hate his overall attitude (he seems much more interested in making "A Matthew Vaughn Film" as opposed to making an X-Men film. During X-Men: The Last Stand he constantly talked about wanting to do a blockbuster so he could become an A-lister, during X-Men: First Class he constantly talked about wanting to make a James Bond movie - X-Men is not James Bond, don't worry about making Bond movies, and worry about making X-Men movies - and the areas where Vaughn tried to stray away from making an X-Men movie, and instead tried to make a Matthew Vaughn version of a James Bond film showed, and the film suffered for it in my eyes)

I don't deny that the guy is capable - he made X-Men: First Class which is easily one of my favorite films of the entire series. I deny his direction. I feel that X-Men: First Class was great in spite of him. I feel it was great because there were people on the production that kept Vaughn on track, and kept him focused on making an X-Men movie, and didn't let him stray too far from what's been previously established. With Vaughn given more control to "ignore" and go his own way, with a ****** screen writer like Simon Kinberg in the mix, I have a real bad feeling for the future of this series.

Ok those just sound completely made up, like when they were hashing out ideas for X3 he was like "Hey guys let's have Leech in a backpack lololololololololololol!!" Too ridiculous! Still sounds to me like Penn was trying to come up with things that could possibly have made the movie worse.

Vaughn already had a lot of control on XMFC and his ideas helped fine-tune everything. Without him, Magneto's theme would have been over the top and hilarious. Without him, beast would have looked like a gargoyle. Don't forget too that he was the one behind casting McAvoy and Fassbender after witnessing their unbelievable screentest. He was the one, with Goldman, who tore up the initial script and rewrote it into what it turned out to be. Granted many of the lines are top-notch cheesy (don't even get me started on Mutant And Proud), but the flow of the rest of the film works out great. This film is the best X-Men film because it deals with the characters and the action is secondary. Unless you include Wolverine in EVERY SINGLE MOVIE BEFORE XMFC, the other films don't boast that as well. I think Vaughn can knock a sequel out of the park, especially if he gets most of the rest of his creative team on board to help him out. :)

[Primal Slayer]

Can we all just look at a positive? Atleast we will get a good trailer out of it if anything.

[RachelDawes]

Bottom line, if Vaughn, Singer, and Goldman are also involved in the script writing process I'll feel better about Kinberg.

[SuperSoldier985]

I have no idea what Kingberg's involvement with X-Men TLS was, so I don't have a whole lot to go on right now with him being involved.

Personally, I think it's more important that Vaughn comes back...

[akfj]

Kinberg co-wrote the screenplay for Last Stand with Zak Penn.

[merbass]

I think the most important thing is we are likely to get sequel to X-men first class. Whoever wrote the script is not that important at this stage. Remember how the script of XFC went through so many different writers ? May be Simon received stories / treatment from Singer / Vaughn and he expands his own idea based on those. Later on it will be edit, change to whoever come to direct the movie. XFC is magnificent. I doubt they will follow the same path as the original quadrilogy.

[Super Film]

I believe this is what is called, "dropping the ball". Maybe not though, but I withhold my hopefulness ever since a certain movie from 2006.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Ok those just sound completely made up, like when they were hashing out ideas for X3 he was like "Hey guys let's have Leech in a backpack lololololololololololol!!" Too ridiculous! Still sounds to me like Penn was trying to come up with things that could possibly have made the movie worse.

Vaughn already had a lot of control on XMFC and his ideas helped fine-tune everything. Without him, Magneto's theme would have been over the top and hilarious. Without him, beast would have looked like a gargoyle. Don't forget too that he was the one behind casting McAvoy and Fassbender after witnessing their unbelievable screentest. He was the one, with Goldman, who tore up the initial script and rewrote it into what it turned out to be. Granted many of the lines are top-notch cheesy (don't even get me started on Mutant And Proud), but the flow of the rest of the film works out great. This film is the best X-Men film because it deals with the characters and the action is secondary. Unless you include Wolverine in EVERY SINGLE MOVIE BEFORE XMFC, the other films don't boast that as well. I think Vaughn can knock a sequel out of the park, especially if he gets most of the rest of his creative team on board to help him out. :)

Exactly, I doubt Fc would have been half as good as it was without Vaughn involvement, he practically wrote the script from scrath when he came on board which has been confirmed. As for X3 and the things Nell listed, it was never confirmed exactly who came up with those ideas, seeing their track record, i'd guess and Kinberg and Penn came up with half of them themselves and tried to fall back on blaming Vaughn for them when the movie turned out complete ****.

Confirm Vaughn is coming back and I will be confident about this thing, otherwise at the moment I my expecations are seriously lowered.

[Rac]

Well, I hope Jane Goldman (along with Vaughn) will do a rewrite. Not a fan of Kinberg.

[flickchick85]

After Vaughn's departure, Penn said something to the effect of "If you guys think -this- is bad (the movie we got) it was going to be 10x worse with Vaughn" (paraphrasing, not quoting) and proceeded to list off a bunch of even worse ideas that were scrapped from the actual shooting script after Vaughn left.
It's easy to talk s*** about the guy who left. But to me, the evidence is in the work. From where I'm standing, Vaughn writes/directs good movies. Penn writes crap (I don't count X2, since he didn't do the screenplay). The only decent project Kinberg's been involved with just happened to be co-written by 4 other people. Vaughn got involved with The Last Stand much later than those guys and left a short amount of time after that, yet it was all his doing? They "saved" it from Vaughn's even bigger disaster? I don't think so. Of course Penn would try to pass the buck, what else is he gonna do?

Vaughn made what is, imo, the best film of the franchise, so his involvement would only be a positive thing as far as I'm concerned.

[danoyse]

I'm actually not a fan of any of Vaughn's screenwritten/directed movies except First Class (that's right folks, I'm an anomaly who hated KickAss and Stardust).

You're not alone, I hated KickAss too.

As far as the Kinberg news...I'm not climbing out on the ledge just yet. X3 was a mess for so many reasons that you can't just pin it on him, so I'm willing to wait it out and see what happens.

[Zant]

Its nice to see not everyone is overreacting to this news.

[merbass]

Also don't forget that Kinberg wrote the first draft to XFC, before Singer / Vaughn came on board.

With the completion of Jack and the Giant Killer, perhaps Singer could direct the sequel and make it as good or even better than X-men United !

[Thebumwhowalks]

Didn't Matthew V say he was going to be directing a Mark Miller comic-book next? I'm sure there was a story on the front page a few weeks ago where he said that.
I really hope he does the sequel to XMFC, but perhaps he is not the type of diretcor who likes to do sequels to his own movies, given he didn't pursue a KA sequel(which I think could have been done if he wanted it to happen, rumours are that they are still trying to get that organised under another director).

As for the screenplay...what has probably happened is that they just want to get the ball rolling rightaway, and Simon Kinberg was the guy who was connected to the project that could start work immediately. they just want something written up asap so whoever takes the director's chair will at the very least they have a foundation to work from before they bring in more writers, or have their own input.

edit: Given the fact he has been talking about directing another movie, and that it has not even started pre-production, I don't think there is much chance of MV returning to direct. By the time XMFC2 has to startpre-p, MV will still be directing the MM adaptation he was talking about.
and if he was up for XMFC2 being his next flick, he would have agreed to it already, and he and Jane Goldman would be the ones being announced as working on the script.
So, what has happened, is MV has not commited to directing XMFC2, so one of the producers who has some X-Men screenplay experience has been elected to get things rolling.

I don't think it should be underestimated how much of Jane Goldman's work benefitted the final film, her husband Jonathan Ross being a comic book nut/expert, she will probably know her stuff too.
Hopefully she and MV will get their hands on the screenplay for another pass at it, this will happen if MV directs, but if he does not, what will happen is we will get a film written by a comittee of regular screenplay bozos who are not versed in the books so much, so the script may not be as good.

edit: and as for the rumours of MV having some wonky ideas for XMTLS, eh, i can believe that, y'know, folk sit around in a room and brainstorm with ideas, if someone is not too versed in the books, they could come up with some funny ideas for the mutants to be doing this that and the next thing with their powers, and i don't recall ever reading about MV being a comic book guy.
He also cast Vinnie Jones as juggernaught, which was a crap idea, they are mates in real life, and the guy just can't act, it was a bit of a joke casting.
He can direct a great movie, for sure, but he has had at least one genuinely crap idea that contributed to XMTLS being a poor X-Men film.
But, y'know, given the circumstances of the Last Stand's production, we are lucky it was as good as it was.

[chaseter]

I'm out if Kinberg is writing and Vaughn isn't directing.

[RachelDawes]

Also don't forget that Kinberg wrote the first draft to XFC, before Singer / Vaughn came on board.

With the completion of Jack and the Giant Killer, perhaps Singer could direct the sequel and make it as good or even better than X-men United !

:barf:

I didn't like Singer's movies very much and find him rather bland as a director. If Vaughn doesn't return I'm going to lose much of my interest in this film. I've seen interviews where Vaughn has speculated about what he'd do in a sequel, though, so I don't think he's opposed to coming back.

[magneto23]

There just giving Kinberg the task of getting started. I would bet anything that the main storyline of a sequel was/has already been formed (at least in vague detail) by Vaughn/Singer & co. And Kinberg will be basing this FIRST script on THEIR ideas/plans. When the time comes the right people will come in and make the necessary additions/subtractions to Kinberg's work. No big deal. IF Singer/Vaughn are back, and I'm sure they will be, than there will be no worries.

[blueserenity]

As for the screenplay...what has probably happened is that they just want to get the ball rolling rightaway, and Simon Kinberg was the guy who was connected to the project that could start work immediately. they just want something written up asap so whoever takes the director's chair will at the very least they have a foundation to work from before they bring in more writers, or have their own input.

edit: Given the fact he has been talking about directing another movie, and that it has not even started pre-production, I don't think there is much chance of MV returning to direct. By the time XMFC2 has to startpre-p, MV will still be directing the MM adaptation he was talking about.
and if he was up for XMFC2 being his next flick, he would have agreed to it already, and he and Jane Goldman would be the ones being announced as working on the script.
So, what has happened, is MV has not commited to directing XMFC2, so one of the producers who has some X-Men screenplay experience has been elected to get things rolling.




MV has said before that he's eager to do a 2nd movie and LSD has also stated that getting MV back is a "top priority". The fact that neither party has commented on it yet isn't a total worrisome factor for me yet, considering that none of the actors who are UNDER CONTRACT have mentioned the sequel. We have no idea whatsoever when pre-prod for this movie would begin. We have no idea if it will be a lengthy thing or a crammed thing like XMFC. We can assume that like the previous 5 films it will be a summer flick, that it won't be in 2012, and that it's highly unlikely it will be in 2013 either (FOX is gonna stretch out the X-Men franchise as much as possible so they can keep the rights, they'd be dumb to release Wolverine and XMFC2 in the same year). So I'm thinking this will be a 2014 release. Even if the whole thing takes 15 months to make, they wouldn't really have to really start until early spring 2013. That's almost year and a half away. Plenty of time for Vaughn and the cast to finish up other projects and coordinate their schedules.

The only reason I can see MV *NOT* coming back is salary negotiations go sour. Hopefully FOX won't cheap out and he won't demand too much and it'll all be great.

Also I'm hoping that FOX will note people are freaking out about Kinberg and want reassurance so they will be inspired to see a sequel. Just as X3 and Wolverine were detrimental to XMFC's box office health, word getting around that the writer who worked on X3 is doing XMFC2 is equally upsetting. XMFC was by far the best movie I saw in 2011, and even I would be extremely reluctant to see a sequel, written by this guy, that wasn't helmed by Vaughn.

But then FOX doesn't seem to give two *****s about quality. The stuff they put out that does get critical acclaim seems to happen almost as if by accident. :/


I didn't like Singer's movies very much and find him rather bland as a director. If Vaughn doesn't return I'm going to lose much of my interest in this film. I've seen interviews where Vaughn has speculated about what he'd do in a sequel, though, so I don't think he's opposed to coming back.

Indeed! And both James McAvoy and Jason Flemyng have mentioned discussing the sequel with him and offering ideas and stuff. I really can't see MV bailing out of disinterest in the series. Especially considering the massive ego stroke he's getting from what praise this film has.

He didn't want to do KickAss 2 because he couldn't think of a good story or direction to take it in. Obviously he has a lot on his mind for XMFC2.

[Nerial]

One thing I didn't like with MV directing XM:FC was his overly obvious love of James Bond. It actually worked well for the most part, all things considered, but I didn't go to see Bond--I went to see Xmen. The worst of that was the women--they might as well called Emma Frost "Pussy Galore." I really want well-rounded female characters in the next movie who can solve problems without having to resort to removing their clothes.

A little Bond is fine, but let's move back to Xmen now.

[blueserenity]

One thing I didn't like with MV directing XM:FC was his overly obvious love of James Bond. It actually worked well for the most part, all things considered, but I didn't go to see Bond--I went to see Xmen. The worst of that was the women--they might as well called Emma Frost "Pussy Galore." I really want well-rounded female characters in the next movie who can solve problems without having to resort to removing their clothes.

A little Bond is fine, but let's move back to Xmen now.

I disagree actually. Well not about the women part, we could definitely use some more rounded females and I'm not talking about the curves.

However I felt the Bond stuff was pretty limited and would have loved to have seen more of it. Seriously I could watch an entire prequel to this prequel called Erik Lehnsherr: Nazi Hunter. The Argentinian Bar scene remains one of my absolute favorites in the movie.

The different feel of the film though, the more period-piece-meets-JB-meets-mutants, has pretty much ruined the other movies for me. X1 especially (cuz I'm in perpetual denial about X3 and Wolverine, they simply do not exist to me) feels so vapid and straightforward: "Here are some people with powers, sci-fi-fantasy FLASH go!!". I loved that the 60s style meant they could totally get away with Bond stuff. I can't see too much more of it in future films but I love what we got. :)

[merbass]

:barf:

I didn't like Singer's movies very much and find him rather bland as a director. If Vaughn doesn't return I'm going to lose much of my interest in this film. I've seen interviews where Vaughn has speculated about what he'd do in a sequel, though, so I don't think he's opposed to coming back.

So you didn't like X-men. X-men United ?

[chaseter]

One thing I didn't like with MV directing XM:FC was his overly obvious love of James Bond. It actually worked well for the most part, all things considered, but I didn't go to see Bond--I went to see Xmen. The worst of that was the women--they might as well called Emma Frost "Pussy Galore." I really want well-rounded female characters in the next movie who can solve problems without having to resort to removing their clothes.

A little Bond is fine, but let's move back to Xmen now.

Uhhh have you seen a comic with Emma Frost in it? It was a movie based in the 60s...women were thought of as lesser and objectified. One was a stripper who didn't take her clothes off at all, one was a human who did it once, one was naked in the first 3 movies, and the last woman is a sexpot in the comics. I don't see your point other than Moira doing it once at the casino.

[Thebumwhowalks]

Indeed! And both James McAvoy and Jason Flemyng have mentioned discussing the sequel with him and offering ideas and stuff. I really can't see MV bailing out of disinterest in the series. Especially considering the massive ego stroke he's getting from what praise this film has.

He didn't want to do KickAss 2 because he couldn't think of a good story or direction to take it in. Obviously he has a lot on his mind for XMFC2.

eh, I'm pretty sure he was saying similar thing sabout doing a KA sequel too, and what is this you are saying about him not doing it because he couldn't think of a good story for a sequel? did he actually say that? Because that does not make sense given the nature of the second series of comics, did he actually say he didn't like Mark millar's plotlines for KA2?
Because i think the reality is that he didn't do the sequel either because KA didn't make as much money as he thought it would...or he wanted to make a completely different movie..and/or he wanted to move up into the big leagues with a big budget sh/cb adaptation.

I'm glad that there seems to be time for him to do a different movie, and then do another XM flick, and that he has been talking about doing another XM film, but I can still imagine him not doing it, after all, Singer went straight from one XM film to the next, and if his enthusiasm was as up there as Singer's, he would be hankering to move onto it next.
He seems like the kind of filmaker who wants to move onto other things, make completely different movies from his previous ones, that's just my gut feeling, I will be very (pleasantly)surprised if he does another XM film.

However I felt the Bond stuff was pretty limited and would have loved to have seen more of it. Seriously I could watch an entire prequel to this prequel called Erik Lehnsherr: Nazi Hunter. The Argentinian Bar scene remains one of my absolute favorites in the movie.

The different feel of the film though, the more period-piece-meets-JB-meets-mutants, has pretty much ruined the other movies for me. X1 especially (cuz I'm in perpetual denial about X3 and Wolverine, they simply do not exist to me) feels so vapid and straightforward: "Here are some people with powers, sci-fi-fantasy FLASH go!!". I loved that the 60s style meant they could totally get away with Bond stuff. I can't see too much more of it in future films but I love what we got.

and in reagrds to this statement... as well as you agreeing in the previous post that singer's directing was 'bland'....let's not get carried away here, this latest X-Men film was not that great a departure from the Singer films in style and tone, about the only thing that it had over them was the fact they could do more things with the modern sfx.

They are pretty standard sh/xm stories, albiet high quality in the telling, and in actual fact, XM:Fc is telling a bit of a redundant story for the most part, as we already know this character stuff from it being told and referenced in the Singer X-Men films.

Singer's directing was far from bland, what he did was nothing short of bringing the superhero movie to a new level of realism.
Look at the end of X2 when they are mourning Jean in the jet, they are dressed in crazy leather outfits, one guy has a laser visor on, the other has a nutty feral hairdo, a guy in the background has a blue face and a tail...and yet, the acting and emotional reality is as completely real and natural to us as any serious adult arthouse drama.
No mean feat, and i think that since Singer was the first of the new wave of sh films, it is a little easy to take all of that work for granted.
XMFC fans now dismissing the groundwork of the Singer films, as if FC is doing something completely new, is like the punks in the late 70s dissing the Beatles as if the punks were doing something totally new, when in actual fact, the Beatles were dressed in tight black leather, playing fast short rock n roll songs and popping amphetamines onstage back in the 50s in their Hamburg days.

and as for the period piece detail of XM:FC, eh, apart from the cuban missile crisis, the whole film could pretty much havbe taken place in a modern day setting, apart from some little stylistic touches. I saw someone on another message board point this out, and after watching the dvd in the sober light of day, I had to agree.

I think FC is on a par with the Singer films, the one thing it does have over them(apart from modern improved sfx) is the fact it's third and final act is stronger, although it does not have a strong dramatic character scene as impressive as the one I cited back there.

[Electrix]

X-Men: First Class writer Zack Stentz just tweeted (http://twitter.com/#!/MuseZack/status/133003355277639680):

Hey, fans. If you liked X-Men: First Class, then thank Simon Kinberg because he's one of the main people responsible for how good it was...

He's smart, kind, and talented as hell. The sequel is in good hands with him.

[Avenger]

I still think most of The Last Stand's failings, from a writing standpoint, were because of Zak Penn. Now that guy is just terrible.

[merbass]

It would be cool to see Mystique imitating Marilyn, and got the actual one murdered.

[blueserenity]

eh, I'm pretty sure he was saying similar thing sabout doing a KA sequel too, and what is this you are saying about him not doing it because he couldn't think of a good story for a sequel? did he actually say that? Because that does not make sense given the nature of the second series of comics, did he actually say he didn't like Mark millar's plotlines for KA2?
Because i think the reality is that he didn't do the sequel either because KA didn't make as much money as he thought it would...or he wanted to make a completely different movie..and/or he wanted to move up into the big leagues with a big budget sh/cb adaptation.

I'm glad that there seems to be time for him to do a different movie, and then do another XM flick, and that he has been talking about doing another XM film, but I can still imagine him not doing it, after all, Singer went straight from one XM film to the next, and if his enthusiasm was as up there as Singer's, he would be hankering to move onto it next.
He seems like the kind of filmaker who wants to move onto other things, make completely different movies from his previous ones, that's just my gut feeling, I will be very (pleasantly)surprised if he does another XM film.



and in reagrds to this statement... as well as you agreeing in the previous post that singer's directing was 'bland'....let's not get carried away here, this latest X-Men film was not that great a departure from the Singer films in style and tone, about the only thing that it had over them was the fact they could do more things with the modern sfx.

They are pretty standard sh/xm stories, albiet high quality in the telling, and in actual fact, XM:Fc is telling a bit of a redundant story for the most part, as we already know this character stuff from it being told and referenced in the Singer X-Men films.

Singer's directing was far from bland, what he did was nothing short of bringing the superhero movie to a new level of realism.
Look at the end of X2 when they are mourning Jean in the jet, they are dressed in crazy leather outfits, one guy has a laser visor on, the other has a nutty feral hairdo, a guy in the background has a blue face and a tail...and yet, the acting and emotional reality is as completely real and natural to us as any serious adult arthouse drama.
No mean feat, and i think that since Singer was the first of the new wave of sh films, it is a little easy to take all of that work for granted.
XMFC fans now dismissing the groundwork of the Singer films, as if FC is doing something completely new, is like the punks in the late 70s dissing the Beatles as if the punks were doing something totally new, when in actual fact, the Beatles were dressed in tight black leather, playing fast short rock n roll songs and popping amphetamines onstage back in the 50s in their Hamburg days.

and as for the period piece detail of XM:FC, eh, apart from the cuban missile crisis, the whole film could pretty much havbe taken place in a modern day setting, apart from some little stylistic touches. I saw someone on another message board point this out, and after watching the dvd in the sober light of day, I had to agree.

I think FC is on a par with the Singer films, the one thing it does have over them(apart from modern improved sfx) is the fact it's third and final act is stronger, although it does not have a strong dramatic character scene as impressive as the one I cited back there.

I still find Singer to be pretty bland as a director. X2 was great, yes, but X-Men and Superman Returns were not. One of the biggest problems of his hero flicks is the way he handles character development. I feel like the characters are pretty 2-dimensional, not offering a whole lot of depth or, more importantly, inspiration to want to learn more about said characters.
They simply lack (pardon the pun) magnetism. Heck, thanks to X1-X3 I was actually BORED by Xavier and Magneto because they were so straight-forward. Bryan often feels like he goes into his hero flicks with the full expectation that the fans of the original source will fill in the character history blanks for him and thus he can focus more on action.

XMFC changed that, suddenly making charles and Erik interesting and allowing the film to focus on the characters to move the plot rather than the plot dragging the characters along. It's why it's so much better than the other films and why (unfortunately) going back to even X2 can be a little bit of a disappointing experience in comparison.

And this isn't the right board for it but Superman Returns was lousy. It felt much more character-driven than X2 but I felt like the character motivations and emotions were too obvious and drawn out, as if he was appealing to an audience of children or one that had never seen a dramatic film before. :/

As for MV and Kickass 2, I'm too lazy to GoogleNews the quote but he's said that he isn't interested in doing a sequel because he couldn't come up with something to surpass the original and his goal is always to make sequels>originals. I've never read the comic but it's possible the storylines it offers don't fit with the film he's created.
Same as with X-Men, the movies are their own universe which is why I still can't believe that butthurt fanboys are whining about the "real" First Class X-Men. The movies lack a sci-fi element that the comics have for example, which is why some storylines, however great, will never show up on film (until it gets rebooted in a couple of decades). It's probably the same kind of thing as KickAss.

I'm going to continue believing that Vaughn is directing XMFC2 until we get an announcement saying otherwise. They're probably not even at the negotiating scheduling stuff at this point. Heck I'd be impressed if Kinberg has more than a few pages of the first draft typed up. It's early to be worrying about directors.

[X-Maniac]

Well, considering that Kinberg produced First Class and did a lot of uncredited on-set scripting, then there's not really reason to freak out just yet.

Admittedly, I'd feel better if I knew Singer had some involvement in story and character choices because these are films set within his world and I like his thinking.

The other problem is trying to appease fans, who don't have any unified idea of what they want. Some want a total reboot with the original five, some want the original five to be brought into the sequel regardless of continuity problems (Angel and Iceman would definitely be too young to appear in the 60s), some want the First Class line-up plus one or two newcomers (like Polaris), some want Cyclops and Jean to be added, some want those two plus Storm, some want other things.

The bottom line is: Whatever is done will be 'wrong' to some people.

And even if the rights ever went back to Marvel, we might get more comic accuracy but no guarantee of better movies. Thor and Captain America were decent enough but don't have me running to my Blu-ray player to rewatch them; they just don't have the soul and sophistication of First Class.

In fact, all the good stuff in First Class doesn't come from the comics at all: The Cold War/Cuban Missile Crisis setting, Mystique's friendship with Xavier, Shaw's connection to Auschwitz and Magneto, the way Beast's mutation advanced with a Mystique-derived serum, the way Xavier was crippled. Listen up people, NONE OF THAT IS FROM THE COMICS! And yet all of it was quite brilliant.

It'll be interesting to see what they come up with for the next film.

[Electrix]

Admittedly, I'd feel better if I knew Singer had some involvement in story and character choices because these are films set within his world and I like his thinking.

I can't see how Singer wouldn't be involved as a producer. I get the feeling Kinberg is writing the script with input from Singer/Vaughn and Lauren Shuler Donner, the same way J.J Abrams oversaw the Star Trek 2 script without actually signing on as director. Once they've got a story they can get Vaughn/Goldman back to develop it into a shooting script.

We've got another 2-3 years before we see the sequel, so there's no rush.

[Thebumwhowalks]

I still find Singer to be pretty bland as a director. X2 was great, yes, but X-Men and Superman Returns were not. One of the biggest problems of his hero flicks is the way he handles character development. I feel like the characters are pretty 2-dimensional, not offering a whole lot of depth or, more importantly, inspiration to want to learn more about said characters.
They simply lack (pardon the pun) magnetism. Heck, thanks to X1-X3 I was actually BORED by Xavier and Magneto because they were so straight-forward. Bryan often feels like he goes into his hero flicks with the full expectation that the fans of the original source will fill in the character history blanks for him and thus he can focus more on action.

XMFC changed that, suddenly making charles and Erik interesting and allowing the film to focus on the characters to move the plot rather than the plot dragging the characters along. It's why it's so much better than the other films and why (unfortunately) going back to even X2 can be a little bit of a disappointing experience in comparison.


Let's stick to talking about Singer's two X-Men films, which is what we were talking about originally, not X3(which he had nothing to do with) or Superman Returns.
Funnily enough, it was due to Singer's handling of Magneto that made the studio think there would be demand for a Magneto solo film, as he was such a popular character, the plan for which morphed into the FC story.

Aye, Xavier was not as interesting in the Singer films, but I'd say that was obviously because he was stuck in a wheelchair, and not able to be on the frontlines. I have already complained on the boards about the fact he was put into the chair already.
Also, much like the way Magento was a bit more interesting in FC, it was because it was their origin stories, the movie foillowing them as they found out who they were.

But the Singer movies had just as interesting arcs with Wolverine and Rogue, as well as Magneto still being a damn compelling character.

They are not Xavier/Magneto films, which is the way you are talking about them, they are X-Men films, and I would say that the regular X-Men were pretty bland in FC, they had no real interesting character traits really, apart from Hank, and Mystique(whose character arc originated from the Singer verse).
Havok was just some jock....Banshee was just some giggler...Darwin was hardly there before he got bumped off...Angel was...nowhere as interesting as Pyro.

Whereas in the Singer films we not only had pretty good Xavier and Magneto stuff, but we had the love triangle between Logan, Jean and Scott, Logan's search for his past, Rogue and Iceman's relationship...and if you really want to compare and contrast...what about Pyro's switch over to the brotherhood in comparison to Angel's? C'mon, that was handled with such deft characterisation.. the arguments and misuse of powers, his manipulation by Magneto, and the classic scene where he stares with jealousy at the happy family pics in Bobby's house.
there was something far deeper shown onscreen with that characterisation.





As for MV and Kickass 2, I'm too lazy to GoogleNews the quote but he's said that he isn't interested in doing a sequel because he couldn't come up with something to surpass the original and his goal is always to make sequels>originals. I've never read the comic but it's possible the storylines it offers don't fit with the film he's created.

Exactly, and if he feels he can't surpass XM:FC, he won't do it, it will be a hard one to surpass, as the fall of Magneto was so compelling, as well as the friendship between him and Xavier breaking down.

[Drz]

I'm just happy the movie is getting a sequel. If Matthew Vaughn returns to the director's seat he can just get the script rewritten, so i'm just happy that the sequel is real. =)

[Thebumwhowalks]

i'm just happy that the sequel is real. =)

It is just a movie bigman, haha, it's not as if there are really such things as training grounds where some people make the grade to be superheroes.
Imagine what that would be like in real life, the amount of jealousy that would arise, haha, esp if there was someone who was guaranteed to be a superhero, whereas the majority wouldn't get the chance.
esp if that one was gonna be immortal too, heehee. :cwink:

eh, one thing is for sure, one way or another, I'm not putting myself through the headaches i am going through right now, I don't need to do or be anywhere I don't want to be. If I can't relax watching the movie, forget it.

[Dr.Negative]

Im not worried by Simon Kinberg writing the sequel - i doubt his script will not have tweaking from Matthew Vaughan and Bryan Singer if they continue as excutive producers.

Also they got alot right with First Class... Maybe Fox realised the errors of there ways with Last Stand and Wolverine that was put right in first class so im thinking maybe they wont make as meny mistakes.

Also i see First Class 2 being like X2 (They only introduced 3 new mutants but the
story didnt really focus around them.)

[RachelDawes]

So you didn't like X-men. X-men United ?

I actually preferred X1 to X2. X2 bored me to tears and it felt like it dragged on forever. The X series in general didn't do much for me until XFC came along.

[blueserenity]

Let's stick to talking about Singer's two X-Men films, which is what we were talking about originally, not X3(which he had nothing to do with) or Superman Returns.
Funnily enough, it was due to Singer's handling of Magneto that made the studio think there would be demand for a Magneto solo film, as he was such a popular character, the plan for which morphed into the FC story.

I wasn't talking about x3, I was talking about X-Men. I used to love that movie but after XMFC it's barely watchable for me :/.
I will admit Magneto was one of the more compelling characters of the film but I really give that credit to Sir Ian, not so much Singer.


Aye, Xavier was not as interesting in the Singer films, but I'd say that was obviously because he was stuck in a wheelchair, and not able to be on the frontlines. I have already complained on the boards about the fact he was put into the chair already.
Xavier's disability is utterly irrelevant to his intrigue as a character and I'm actually annoyed and possibly even offended at that implication. X1-2 Charles (because X3 does not exist to me) was boring because he was far too saintly. His character appeared to be all-knowing and all-compassionate. The end.

XMFC made him interesting NOT BECAUSE HE WAS ABLE TO WALK but because of the young man he was. He's a flawed character. The first times we meet him as an adult he's getting wasted and using his powers to get laid. And later we see that while he certainly seems to have near-endless compassion, he's kind of arrogant, assumes he knows what's best for everyone, and if the deleted scenes are any indication, a man with no qualms about crossing lines and who is also on occasion kind of a jerk. Basically, he's HUMAN. Which makes him far more interesting.

So yes, I find it a little unbelievable that you credit his mobility for making him interesting. It's irrelevant. If anything, his newfound disability in the next film will make him even MORE interesting as we see him struggle with it. Sainthood doesn't come automatically when you lose your legs. He's got to earn it.


But the Singer movies had just as interesting arcs with Wolverine and Rogue, as well as Magneto still being a damn compelling character.


Wolverine was interesting because he was the main focus of the film. He was one of about 3-4 characters between X1-2 who got real back story. And again, despite her arc, I still find MovieRogue to be pretty damn boring. I did love Iceman's story with his family, and Pyro was ok. But saying Jean and Cyclops got development through the love triangle is just not true at all. If anything it reduced them to 2D characters who were simply there to further Wolverine's neverending(literally) story.


They are not Xavier/Magneto films, which is the way you are talking about them, they are X-Men films, and I would say that the regular X-Men were pretty bland in FC, they had no real interesting character traits really, apart from Hank, and Mystique(whose character arc originated from the Singer verse).

Mystique's character "arc" doesn't really originate in the Singer verse. Mystique is a 2D henchman in X1-2 whose character appears to be that she is extremely sexual, cold, and hates humans because they hated her for looking different. There is no arc there whatsoever. It's Vaughn who gave her an arc, an arc that they will have to do a looooot to in order to make her the creature she is in later films.

Hank aside the other X-kids could definitely have used more development but the great thing is that if Vaughn comes back and sticks to the plan with only one new character in the sequel, there will be lots of time to give Havok and Banshee more screentime. If they're doing comic canon stuff and Nightcrawler is Mystique and Azazel's son, they'll probably expand on the latter as well. Personally I'm not interested in Angel or Riptide and thanks to January Jones' performance I actually secretly hope Emma Frost spends the entire movie stranded on an island. Or maybe locked in one of Stryker's cages.


Exactly, and if he feels he can't surpass XM:FC, he won't do it, it will be a hard one to surpass, as the fall of Magneto was so compelling, as well as the friendship between him and Xavier breaking down.

He's already expressed interest in the sequel, comparing it like Batman Begins and Dark Knight. The first movie establishes the characters, the second movie is for taking things darker and getting REALLY into the good stuff. If anything this sequel has extraordinary potential to be more interesting with all the struggles the characters have to go through. Charles adjusting to his disability. Erik and Raven learning about it, Erik trying to lead a band of mutants that used to stand behind the man who killed his mother. Beast coming to terms with his new form, Mystique becoming more confident and (assuming this is a prequel) slowly turning into the character she is in the later flicks. And don't forget, Erik and Charles aren't enemies yet! They want different things for sure, and Erik leaving Charles injured on a beach was a pretty dick move, but they're not enemies. The sequel isn't going to be a Brotherhood vs Xavier's kids movie. If anything I see them teaming up again to take down a new baddie and their relationship REALLY starting to disintegrate. There is SOOO much to address I really can't see Vaughn saying no. If he did, it'd definitely be over contract terms. Not because he's not up for it.

[Figs]

Kinberg did all his work under Matthew Vaughn's supervision. Before Vaughn ran and quit two weeks before filming started.

I never knew that. So part of the blame should be thrown on Vaughn as well I guess. I wonder if he got lucky with First Class or just sat back and let the new writers do their thing for that one.

[merbass]

X-men the last stand was a mess from the beginning. No matter who directed it. There would be no Cyclops, Mystique and the stories had to focus on Phoenix and the cure !

[Mrs Vimes]

I'm just happy to hear that they're seriously considering a sequel. I think it's a tad early to worry about the script when the actual shooting script might bear little resemblance to the initial one.

[Thebumwhowalks]

I wasn't talking about x3, I was talking about X-Men. I used to love that movie but after XMFC it's barely watchable for me :/.

No, you mentioned X-Men 3 in that post, you said that Xavier bored you in XM1 and XM3.



Xavier's disability is utterly irrelevant to his intrigue as a character and I'm actually annoyed and possibly even offended at that implication. X1-2 Charles (because X3 does not exist to me) was boring because he was far too saintly. His character appeared to be all-knowing and all-compassionate. The end.

XMFC made him interesting NOT BECAUSE HE WAS ABLE TO WALK but because of the young man he was. He's a flawed character. The first times we meet him as an adult he's getting wasted and using his powers to get laid. And later we see that while he certainly seems to have near-endless compassion, he's kind of arrogant, assumes he knows what's best for everyone, and if the deleted scenes are any indication, a man with no qualms about crossing lines and who is also on occasion kind of a jerk. Basically, he's HUMAN. Which makes him far more interesting.

So yes, I find it a little unbelievable that you credit his mobility for making him interesting. It's irrelevant. If anything, his newfound disability in the next film will make him even MORE interesting as we see him struggle with it. Sainthood doesn't come automatically when you lose your legs. He's got to earn it.

Don't try to pull that PC crap on me, the fact of the matter is that Patrick Stewart is a big name, and he expected a certain amount of screentime, so in X2 you had all of these scenes with him trapped in that psychic mind game thing with the little girl, and they were really nowhere as compelling as the other dramatic or action orientated scenes in the movie. The fact of the matter is that you are very limited in what you can do with a wheelchair bound character in an action orientated film in comparison to the other characters.

Sure, in a sequel to FC they will probably do that idea of Xavier locked in a mind battle with Frost or whoever, but the fact is they are now limited to what they can do with the character in a movie like this, and he will be absent from all the action.
I have seen a few people on the boards saying they were disapointed that Charles got put in a wheelchiar so soon, esp if they are going to do a trilogy of films, so why would that be?
Because we all know that the character is now limited in what he can bring to an action orientated movie like this.
It was great seeing him on the frontlines in FC's final act, unlike in X1 where he was comatose in the third act, X2 where he was a guy who had to be rescued, and X3 where he was absent from the movie altogether.
The fact of the matter is, if he were in a wheelchair for the duration of XMFC, he would have been absent from the Russian mansion attack, and the final showdown, he would have been at home washing his tights.


and i don't think a character has to be flawed to be interesting, but I do take your point that those character traits were good to see in the early Xavier of course they were, although the stuff with him being insensitive about Mystique's appearance seemed shoehorned in there just to give more weight to her leaving his gang for Magneto's. That seemed very at odds with the other things he was preaching about in the film, which was basically the same ethos he was going on about in the Singer flicks.



Wolverine was interesting because he was the main focus of the film. He was one of about 3-4 characters between X1-2 who got real back story. And again, despite her arc, I still find MovieRogue to be pretty damn boring. I did love Iceman's story with his family, and Pyro was ok. But saying Jean and Cyclops got development through the love triangle is just not true at all. If anything it reduced them to 2D characters who were simply there to further Wolverine's neverending(literally) story.

even if Cyclops was only involved for the most part by proxy, the love triangle angle yeiled good drama, not least the scene in the forest in X2 between Logan and Jean.

Go look at the extras on the X-Men SE dvd, you'll see a good example of Singer's thorough directing, and why that scene worked so well.
Famke Janseen is kind of stifling a laugh, and not taking it seriously, and Singer is reminding her of where the characters are at, what is going through their minds emotionally at that point in the movie, in order to bring dramatic weight to the scene, and he got it, it worked perfectly, just as real as any straight quality drama.


Mystique's character "arc" doesn't really originate in the Singer verse. Mystique is a 2D henchman in X1-2 whose character appears to be that she is extremely sexual, cold, and hates humans because they hated her for looking different. There is no arc there whatsoever. It's Vaughn who gave her an arc, an arc that they will have to do a looooot to in order to make her the creature she is in later films.

No, they joined the dots with the two pivotal scenes with Mystique in the Singer films that established who Mystique was, the demons that resulted from her mutation that drove her.
Her... 'People like you are the reason I was afraid to go to school as a child.' line in X1...

and 'Because we shouldn't have to...(hide what we look like)' line to Nightcrawler in X2.

So, the character arc had already been established that she had real problems with the way she looked, but eventually got to the point where she didn't want to hide what she looked like and stopped giving a crap.


Hank aside the other X-kids could definitely have used more development but the great thing is that if Vaughn comes back and sticks to the plan with only one new character in the sequel, there will be lots of time to give Havok and Banshee more screentime. If they're doing comic canon stuff and Nightcrawler is Mystique and Azazel's son, they'll probably expand on the latter as well. Personally I'm not interested in Angel or Riptide and thanks to January Jones' performance I actually secretly hope Emma Frost spends the entire movie stranded on an island. Or maybe locked in one of Stryker's cages.

Aye, i know, there is lots of potential scope for the films, all I was saying was that given the nature of that film's story, it will be difficult to top.



And don't forget, Erik and Charles aren't enemies yet! They want different things for sure, and Erik leaving Charles injured on a beach was a pretty dick move, but they're not enemies. The sequel isn't going to be a Brotherhood vs Xavier's kids movie. If anything I see them teaming up again to take down a new baddie and their relationship REALLY starting to disintegrate. There is SOOO much to address I really can't see Vaughn saying no. If he did, it'd definitely be over contract terms. Not because he's not up for it.

eh, they are now established as enemies pretty much, the fight on the beach signified that, it was the first fight that was along the same lines as every other one they had in the other movies(and comic books).
Sure, there will be times of a common enemy, but as we saw in X2, even when Magneto joins against a common foe, he still has his agenda of destruction.

[Nerial]

Uhhh have you seen a comic with Emma Frost in it? It was a movie based in the 60s...women were thought of as lesser and objectified. One was a stripper who didn't take her clothes off at all, one was a human who did it once, one was naked in the first 3 movies, and the last woman is a sexpot in the comics. I don't see your point other than Moira doing it once at the casino.

Uhhh...yes, I have seen Emma Frost, and I totally get that she is a "sexpot." But let's be serious--most women in comics are wearing less-than-practical attire, so you could name dozens others that have done that same.

I didn't really mind having a seductress in the movie, but every single woman ended up either naked or using sex to get something. Raven was the only one where I really felt her "naked" moment meant something (and I have no quarrels with her being naked in the first three movies--it's for practicality, not sex).

I think the worst scenes were: 1) Moira--it was so convenient to have her strip and it actually dumbed down that scene--and 2) was Emma seducing the Russian General. She might be a sexpot, but with all her powers, she has to resort to stripping down to her undies in order to manipulate this guy?

Sex is a trivial power; I'm going to stand up for the men and say that most are too smart to be manipulated by a sexy woman. This movie was very smart, but having the scenes where the women got naked and the men gawked and drooled, was so stupid, it was distracting.

And yes, it's the 60's and women are objectified and believed to be lesser. There were great scenes showing that--Emma getting Shaw ice; Moira's last scene with the CIA--all of these were great examples and worked so well. So why are they further pushing the stereotype that the only power women have is through sex instead of actually giving these women clever problems to solve?

Like I said, I expect that from a Bond movie. This isn't Bond; it's X-men. Giving a little homage to Bond is just fine, but they over-did it. Hopefully, that will be toned down in the next film. That's all I'm sayin'.

[blueserenity]

No, you mentioned X-Men 3 in that post, you said that Xavier bored you in XM1 and XM3.


I went back and doublechecked my post. What I actually wrote was X1-X3, implying X2 as well. I actually should have written X1-X2 as I loathe X3 so much that I don't even consider it canon to the movieverse and thus hate discussing it at all. That said the one Xavier line that stands out for me in that one is when he says something to Logan like "I shouldn't have to explain myself, least of all to you". Which was totally out of left field but kind of cool because suddenly saintly Charles is ticked about something, MAD at someone. The first two movies established a guy with endless knowledge and compassion. Personally, I find the all-pure-hero types to be immensely dull. Your insistence on the wheelchair being the problem is naive. X-Men is an "action" series for sure, but XMFC has established that its movies will definitely be more character driven (the action in this movie happens during the Argentinian scene sans-Charles, the 2 minute Russian house invasion --again it was ERIK's portion of this that was interesting, not Charles', the 5 minute attack on HQ, and the last part of the movie with the beach stuff). MOST of the movie isn't heavy on the action and yet it's interesting. Mystique is not involved in any of the action sequences despite the full use of her legs. Does that make her less interesting? Absolutely not. The XMFC line is definitely going to focus more on character trials and tribulations. If all X-Men is to you is action, you can stick with X3.

Keep in mind as well that Charles' power, as McAvoy has lamented in a few interviews, isn't physical ANYWAY. In many of his versions (90s cartoon for example) he's in a wheelchair from the getgo without explanation. It doesn't make him any less interesting. Just as in the episodes where he does walk it doesn't make him any MORE interesting.


Sure, in a sequel to FC they will probably do that idea of Xavier locked in a mind battle with Frost or whoever, but the fact is they are now limited to what they can do with the character in a movie like this, and he will be absent from all the action.
I highly doubt he will be absent from all the action. If anything I can see him trying to get in on it more than ever to prove to himself what he can still do despite newfound limitations. What an incredible story arc that will be. He's still a young man with energy. I think the only thing that will limit him is what he feels he can't do. Which considering his arrogance, won't be much.


I have seen a few people on the boards saying they were disapointed that Charles got put in a wheelchiar so soon, esp if they are going to do a trilogy of films, so why would that be?
Because we all know that the character is now limited in what he can bring to an action orientated movie like this.
Because it's a lot to throw in in one movie, and there is less of a buildup to the heartbreak. I really doubt this movie was ever truly intended to be a trilogy, despite what they say. Fox had no faith in this flick whatsoever. If they had, they wouldn't have rushed all the key elements. Charles and Erik would have remained friends after Shaw, the friendship under strain by the end and really disintegrating in the sequel. Raven would also not have left her brother to die. They were trying to tie this ONE film to the other 4 as best as possible while still leaving some holes of lesser importance open.



It was great seeing him on the frontlines in FC's final act, unlike in X1 where he was comatose in the third act, X2 where he was a guy who had to be rescued, and X3 where he was absent from the movie altogether.
The fact of the matter is, if he were in a wheelchair for the duration of XMFC, he would have been absent from the Russian mansion attack, and the final showdown, he would have been at home washing his tights.
Physically, what did Charles do on the beach that was so actiony and impressive that he could not have done in a wheelchair? The only thing I can think of is when he runs and tackles Erik. Everything else he could have done sitting down. Your argument is moot.

Charles is not the kind of character in this movie to just sit back and let others do the work for him. He would have gone to the beach, wheelchair be damned.


and i don't think a character has to be flawed to be interesting, but I do take your point that those character traits were good to see in the early Xavier of course they were, although the stuff with him being insensitive about Mystique's appearance seemed shoehorned in there just to give more weight to her leaving his gang for Magneto's. That seemed very at odds with the other things he was preaching about in the film, which was basically the same ethos he was going on about in the Singer flicks.
Characters should have flaws to be interesting, ESPECIALLY superheroes. It's how we can relate to them. It makes them tangible. Erik is a huge fan favorite in XMFC. Why do you think that is? It's not just because Fassbender is incredibly good looking. It's because his character is so tragic and FUBAR.

Charles' thing about his sister's appearance wasn't shoehorned. There's a really fantastic article about the Charles/Raven relationship that I have to find again that offers so many interesting points about Charles and why he is the way he is with Raven. He may be magnanimous but he's still scared as hell (at least initially) that mutants are going to get found out. That's why he wants Raven to look normal in public. He's not offended by her blue form at ALL though, as you see them snuggling while she's blue and he's not uncomfortable about it. When she goes to him naked in the kitchen, he freaks out because she is his sister and is NAKED IN FRONT OF HIM, which she tragically misinterprets as him being repulsed by her form. She doesn't see him as an older brother at this point because she's attracted to him, it makes sense that she wouldn't understand the "families do not stand naked before one another" angle of his freakout. :/


even if Cyclops was only involved for the most part by proxy, the love triangle angle yeiled good drama, not least the scene in the forest in X2 between Logan and Jean.
That's not good drama to me, that's melodrama. It didn't advance Scott's character at all. Or Wolverine's really.


No, they joined the dots with the two pivotal scenes with Mystique in the Singer films that established who Mystique was, the demons that resulted from her mutation that drove her.
Her... 'People like you are the reason I was afraid to go to school as a child.' line in X1...
and 'Because we shouldn't have to...(hide what we look like)' line to Nightcrawler in X2.

So, the character arc had already been established that she had real problems with the way she looked, but eventually got to the point where she didn't want to hide what she looked like and stopped giving a crap.
I already brought that up by establishing she was a sexual, cold, and human-hating character. There was no character arc there. She didn't change from the beginning of X1 to the end of X2. That's what a character arc IS. She gave us no reason to sympathize with her. She was just a henchman.


eh, they are now established as enemies pretty much, the fight on the beach signified that, it was the first fight that was along the same lines as every other one they had in the other movies(and comic books).
Sure, there will be times of a common enemy, but as we saw in X2, even when Magneto joins against a common foe, he still has his agenda of destruction.They're not enemies, I cannot stress this enough. Their fistfight on the beach doesn't signify that. They're pissed off as hell at each other but don't want to hurt each other (Erik even says so during the fight). To put it simply, at the end of the movie these two men who love each other very deeply got "divorced". Getting divorced doesn't mean that the two parties involved are enemies, it just means that being together isn't working out for them and they need to go their own ways. The Brotherhood and Xavier kids have no direct conflict yet. When Magneto starts offing a bunch of innocent humans and Xavier steps in to stop him, THAT's when they become enemies. Otherwise they are just going down different paths to the same destination.

[Thebumwhowalks]

I have a virus and am not up to post-picking, so i will just reply here concisely in one broad stroke to your salient points.

Please don't call me naive just because you do not agree with a point I made.

The simple fact is, the character of Xavier is limited with what they can do with him in a movie if he is in a wheelchair.
The figure he cuts in XMFC is inevitably going to be the more dynamic figure when he is out there in the field, it's not just about him having a couple of flaws(one of which seemed out of character and shoehorned in to make a plotpurpose more viable, as i was saying).
The character in XMFC automatically had the advantage over the one in the Singer flicks because of that fact.

and as for that line to Wolverine in X3, a lot of fans hated that characterisation of Xavier, as if he had suddenly turned into a d*ck, it did seem very out of character from the person from X1 and 2.
and what he was saying was a lot of bs anyway, just because Logan has done crazy things in the past doesn't mean he should step back and let someone else do crazy things.

- I don't see how you couldn't be sympathetic to the character of Mystique in X-Men 1 when she hits out with that line about 'being scared of going to school because of people (like you).'
The fact is, her arc was established in those lines of the Singer flicks, those ideas where the foundation, FC filled in the blanks.
That's all i was saying, give credit where it is due, of course you can only allot a certain amount of screentime to characters in these ensemble movies, and we had to wait for a fourth to get more screentime for Mystique.
It was not really a fault of the Singer films, more a strength, that we could still get a sense of where she had been and what had happened to her from a mere couple of lines, which also gave us the arc in FC.

- and again, saying that a character *has* be flawed to be interesting is a bunch of baloney.
Jesus was pretty flawless right? and whether or not *you* find him interesting, folk are still talking about him 2000 years later.
haha, sorry, that was the first example I could think of, I haven't read enough Superman comics to comment really, but if you go over to any comic book discussion board you will inevitably see fans bemoaning anyone who claims Supes is boring cause he is so perfect.
Now, if you can't see how someone with the power of Superman or Jesus could end up in interesting dramatic situations as they agonise over what descisions to make, and how their descions have an impact on the wolrd, you are very short sighted in your thoughts on drama.
Same with Xavier, just because you preffered the dynamic figure of McAvoy doesn't mean that the character of Xavier was inherantly a boring character just because he did not have the couple of character flaws displayed in that movie, because , let's be honest here, they hardly played a major part in his drama, he was mostly banging on about the same things he was in the Sinegr films.

- and what are you talking about? As far as Xavier was concerned, Magneto *was* about to kill a bunch of innocent people at the end of FC, that was intended to be the start of their great war with each other, i am pretty mind boggled that you don't understand that. You are probably the only person to have seen the movie who thinks this way.

[Thebumwhowalks]

I'm just happy the movie is getting a sequel. If Matthew Vaughn returns to the director's seat he can just get the script rewritten, so i'm just happy that the sequel is real. =)

I know i only replied to you in a joking way before, so here is my serious reply...

So, what you are impying/saying here is that no matter what happens, you are happy that Matthew Vaughn will be in the director's seat because then he is the boss and can do pretty much whatever he wants to other folk under his command, in order to get the results he wants?
You just swooped right in there after me with that one. =)

Yeah, given the way he has acted before, I already suspected he would pursue his own agenda no matter how long it took, no matter what he has to do.

[Angamb]

when do you think Fox will confirm the director?

[Thebumwhowalks]

when do you think Fox will confirm the director?

I don't think there is any doubt in anyone's mind that we will have to wait for a while for that, whether it's today, next week, next month, next year, or even in another lifetime!... who knows, we will just have to wait and see.
All i know is, i am not going to get wound up about it all.

[chaseter]

I will never forgive Penn and Kinberg for their fanboy trolling in 2006.

[The Batman]

^ This. They pretty much lied to fans continuously right up until last stand came out.

shameful.

[Thebumwhowalks]

^ This. They pretty much lied to fans continuously right up until last stand came out.

shameful.

So what did they say that was so radically different from the movie we got?

[Nerial]

I went back and doublechecked my post. What I actually wrote was X1-X3, implying X2 as well. I actually should have written X1-X2 as I loathe X3 so much that I don't even consider it canon to the movieverse and thus hate discussing it at all. That said the one Xavier line that stands out for me in that one is when he says something to Logan like "I shouldn't have to explain myself, least of all to you". Which was totally out of left field but kind of cool because suddenly saintly Charles is ticked about something, MAD at someone. The first two movies established a guy with endless knowledge and compassion. Personally, I find the all-pure-hero types to be immensely dull. Your insistence on the wheelchair being the problem is naive. X-Men is an "action" series for sure, but XMFC has established that its movies will definitely be more character driven (the action in this movie happens during the Argentinian scene sans-Charles, the 2 minute Russian house invasion --again it was ERIK's portion of this that was interesting, not Charles', the 5 minute attack on HQ, and the last part of the movie with the beach stuff). MOST of the movie isn't heavy on the action and yet it's interesting. Mystique is not involved in any of the action sequences despite the full use of her legs. Does that make her less interesting? Absolutely not. The XMFC line is definitely going to focus more on character trials and tribulations. If all X-Men is to you is action, you can stick with X3.

Keep in mind as well that Charles' power, as McAvoy has lamented in a few interviews, isn't physical ANYWAY. In many of his versions (90s cartoon for example) he's in a wheelchair from the getgo without explanation. It doesn't make him any less interesting. Just as in the episodes where he does walk it doesn't make him any MORE interesting.

I highly doubt he will be absent from all the action. If anything I can see him trying to get in on it more than ever to prove to himself what he can still do despite newfound limitations. What an incredible story arc that will be. He's still a young man with energy. I think the only thing that will limit him is what he feels he can't do. Which considering his arrogance, won't be much.

Because it's a lot to throw in in one movie, and there is less of a buildup to the heartbreak. I really doubt this movie was ever truly intended to be a trilogy, despite what they say. Fox had no faith in this flick whatsoever. If they had, they wouldn't have rushed all the key elements. Charles and Erik would have remained friends after Shaw, the friendship under strain by the end and really disintegrating in the sequel. Raven would also not have left her brother to die. They were trying to tie this ONE film to the other 4 as best as possible while still leaving some holes of lesser importance open.


Physically, what did Charles do on the beach that was so actiony and impressive that he could not have done in a wheelchair? The only thing I can think of is when he runs and tackles Erik. Everything else he could have done sitting down. Your argument is moot.

Charles is not the kind of character in this movie to just sit back and let others do the work for him. He would have gone to the beach, wheelchair be damned.

Characters should have flaws to be interesting, ESPECIALLY superheroes. It's how we can relate to them. It makes them tangible. Erik is a huge fan favorite in XMFC. Why do you think that is? It's not just because Fassbender is incredibly good looking. It's because his character is so tragic and FUBAR.

Charles' thing about his sister's appearance wasn't shoehorned. There's a really fantastic article about the Charles/Raven relationship that I have to find again that offers so many interesting points about Charles and why he is the way he is with Raven. He may be magnanimous but he's still scared as hell (at least initially) that mutants are going to get found out. That's why he wants Raven to look normal in public. He's not offended by her blue form at ALL though, as you see them snuggling while she's blue and he's not uncomfortable about it. When she goes to him naked in the kitchen, he freaks out because she is his sister and is NAKED IN FRONT OF HIM, which she tragically misinterprets as him being repulsed by her form. She doesn't see him as an older brother at this point because she's attracted to him, it makes sense that she wouldn't understand the "families do not stand naked before one another" angle of his freakout. :/

That's not good drama to me, that's melodrama. It didn't advance Scott's character at all. Or Wolverine's really.

I already brought that up by establishing she was a sexual, cold, and human-hating character. There was no character arc there. She didn't change from the beginning of X1 to the end of X2. That's what a character arc IS. She gave us no reason to sympathize with her. She was just a henchman.

They're not enemies, I cannot stress this enough. Their fistfight on the beach doesn't signify that. They're pissed off as hell at each other but don't want to hurt each other (Erik even says so during the fight). To put it simply, at the end of the movie these two men who love each other very deeply got "divorced". Getting divorced doesn't mean that the two parties involved are enemies, it just means that being together isn't working out for them and they need to go their own ways. The Brotherhood and Xavier kids have no direct conflict yet. When Magneto starts offing a bunch of innocent humans and Xavier steps in to stop him, THAT's when they become enemies. Otherwise they are just going down different paths to the same destination.

Hey, Blueserenity. Just a couple things about your post--first, I agree with most of what you've said or at least get where you're coming from. I think Charles should be included in the action--wheelchair be damned--if you have creative writers, they can find ways to include a super-powered telepath into the story (I'm not saying that's what we'll get, but...)

I don't think Erik and Charles are enemies now, either. I'm not sure I'm quite feeling the divorce analogy, BUT I think I understand what you're saying. I think their relationship is more complicated then, "Oh, hey--we're enemies now. Let's try to kill each other." I think Erik will continue going further into darkness and eventually Charles will reach the point where he realizes that he and his team will have to stop him DESPITE the fact that Charles cares for Erik and vice-versa. Makes better drama that way, anyway.

And I also agree that good, well-rounded characters, should have flaws. They should have moments of weakness and definitely conflict, but it doesn't mean they have to be *****. Someone could be scatter-brained or naive, and those could be considered flaws (given the situation).

But one thing I cannot agree on...I HATE that line from X3. Even before I watched XM:FC and became an Xavier fan, I hated it. "I don't have to explain myself, least of all to you..." is probably the line I hate the most of all the movies. I get what they were trying--to make Xavier a little more human. But that was all-out arrogant and narrow-minded, and the future Xavier is neither. He damn well should explain his actions if he wants Logan or anyone else to follow his lead. Sorry, but I cringe at that.

But I agree on the flawed hero thing overall. :)

[marvelrobbins]

Kinberg suggested to Bryan Singer on using the Hellfire Club as villians for First class as
producer.The producer of gossip girl wrote the preSinger script.Kinberg was first to think
of Matthew Vaughn as Director.Plus Kinberg did last minute polishing of the script.He was
key member of First Class team.So this doesn't bother me.We aren't in 2005 anymore.
Hopefully Bryan Singer was Involved In devolping the story Kinberg Is now writing the
screenplay for.The big question remains Is SInger producing and will Matthew Vaughn
return to direct.Considering the story and characters choosen from First Class came from
Singer his return IS a must and getting the Singer and Vaughn combo again would make
one hell of a film again just Like First Class.

I still consider X2 as best of the franchise but First Class I do place ahead of X-Men.It's hard for me to look at Last Stand and Wolverine anymore.Hopefully The Wolverine will be In X-Men,X2,First Class quality.

I would place bets we will defently see following In Sequel

Xavier
Beast
Havok
Banshee
Magneto
Mystique
Emma Frost

[blueserenity]

I have a virus and am not up to post-picking, so i will just reply here concisely in one broad stroke to your salient points.

Please don't call me naive just because you do not agree with a point I made.

The simple fact is, the character of Xavier is limited with what they can do with him in a movie if he is in a wheelchair.
The figure he cuts in XMFC is inevitably going to be the more dynamic figure when he is out there in the field, it's not just about him having a couple of flaws(one of which seemed out of character and shoehorned in to make a plotpurpose more viable, as i was saying).
The character in XMFC automatically had the advantage over the one in the Singer flicks because of that fact.

and as for that line to Wolverine in X3, a lot of fans hated that characterisation of Xavier, as if he had suddenly turned into a d*ck, it did seem very out of character from the person from X1 and 2.
and what he was saying was a lot of bs anyway, just because Logan has done crazy things in the past doesn't mean he should step back and let someone else do crazy things.

- I don't see how you couldn't be sympathetic to the character of Mystique in X-Men 1 when she hits out with that line about 'being scared of going to school because of people (like you).'
The fact is, her arc was established in those lines of the Singer flicks, those ideas where the foundation, FC filled in the blanks.
That's all i was saying, give credit where it is due, of course you can only allot a certain amount of screentime to characters in these ensemble movies, and we had to wait for a fourth to get more screentime for Mystique.
It was not really a fault of the Singer films, more a strength, that we could still get a sense of where she had been and what had happened to her from a mere couple of lines, which also gave us the arc in FC.

- and again, saying that a character *has* be flawed to be interesting is a bunch of baloney.
Jesus was pretty flawless right? and whether or not *you* find him interesting, folk are still talking about him 2000 years later.
haha, sorry, that was the first example I could think of, I haven't read enough Superman comics to comment really, but if you go over to any comic book discussion board you will inevitably see fans bemoaning anyone who claims Supes is boring cause he is so perfect.
Now, if you can't see how someone with the power of Superman or Jesus could end up in interesting dramatic situations as they agonise over what descisions to make, and how their descions have an impact on the wolrd, you are very short sighted in your thoughts on drama.
Same with Xavier, just because you preffered the dynamic figure of McAvoy doesn't mean that the character of Xavier was inherantly a boring character just because he did not have the couple of character flaws displayed in that movie, because , let's be honest here, they hardly played a major part in his drama, he was mostly banging on about the same things he was in the Sinegr films.

- and what are you talking about? As far as Xavier was concerned, Magneto *was* about to kill a bunch of innocent people at the end of FC, that was intended to be the start of their great war with each other, i am pretty mind boggled that you don't understand that. You are probably the only person to have seen the movie who thinks this way.

I'm just pointing out a few things, this is probably out of order whatever:
I never said Xavier was boring. I said Singer's Xavier was boring.

And I stand by my statement that characters have to be flawed to be interesting. That doesn't mean jerks are automatically cool at ALL. Characters who are flawed in every way are just as bad as characters who have no flaws. You need a good balance.

I actually find Superman and Captain America to be boring because they offer no flaws (and I may be the only person in the world who was bored by the Cap's recent movie). One of the only renditions of Superman I can stomach is Lois and Clark because they made SUPERMAN the fake persona, instead of Clark. Clark was insecure and had many very human moments of doubt when it came to his life, his alter-ego, his relationships. Superman, the all-good all-saving "Don't worry, citizens!" was fake. In all the other renditions I've seen (TV and movie, i can't be bothered with the comic), Superman is who he is and Clark is the bumbling idiot he pretends to be. His weaknesses are reduced to physical (kryptonite) rather than emotional. I couldn't connect with him at all in any other version than LCTAOS.

Similarly, Captain America. Will someone please please please tell me what his flaws are? I'm not trying to be argumentative about this guy, I'd actually genuinely like to know. The movie didn't answer that question for me, and when I asked friends they simply answered "he was small" as a flaw. Which if anything actually made the "over-heroification" of him more extreme in my book.

As for the Xavier-Magneto split, yes, Erik was ready to kill thousands of people. This wasn't the moment that made them complete enemies though. It was the moment that their paths sharply diverged. I'm not kidding myself and saying they're still good friends. Just that they are not going to be fighting each other directly in the sequel. There's no reason to.

That's why I like the divorce analogy. They're drawing lines in the sand (no pun intended), but they're not going straight to full on fighting each other. I think they're both a little too shattered at the moment to consider it.

Again Mystique doesn't have an arc. Arc means something changes. Mystique (ironically), never does in X1-2. She just does what she's told. Would have been cool to see her try to take control of a situation rather than just being a lackey.

Nerial, I actually HATE that line in X3 as well because it was so out of left field. But at that point I was pretty desperate to see anything other than sainthood from Charles, something rippling on his perpetually calm surface. That line did the trick alright but unfortunately it had the "ripple" effect of someone dropping a giant stone into a small pond.

So thanks for that delightful line, Kinberg! Can't wait for more out of character stuff in XMFC2!

But seriously, I'm hoping on some level FOX is aware what an effect Kinberg is having on sequel enthusiasts. I work in a video store and a customer was buying a Fassbender movie this aft. She brought up his work in XMFC and I told her about the sequel and she was really excited until I told her who was writing it. "Guess I'll be skipping that one" she said. A woman who loves XMFC and loves Michael Fassbender is already giving up on the sequel because X3 STILL has that effect on the franchise, 5 years and an excellent movie later. FOX wants a higher audience turnout? They need to ensure the important people (main cast and Vaughn, Singer, Goldman) are brought back for this project.

[danoyse]

I will never forgive Penn and Kinberg for their fanboy trolling in 2006.

^ This. They pretty much lied to fans continuously right up until last stand came out.

shameful.

But we're going to turn the page and not turn this into another X3 debate, since we have a separate forum to discuss that movie. :cwink:


It's getting a little heated in here, everyone. Why don't we all take a breath and wait until we have some actual information about what's going to happen in the First Class sequel before we decide the movie is awful?

[Mrs Vimes]

IThey're not enemies, I cannot stress this enough. Their fistfight on the beach doesn't signify that. They're pissed off as hell at each other but don't want to hurt each other (Erik even says so during the fight). To put it simply, at the end of the movie these two men who love each other very deeply got "divorced". Getting divorced doesn't mean that the two parties involved are enemies, it just means that being together isn't working out for them and they need to go their own ways.

I think that their "divorce" though is of a kind where each party believes that the relationship has been broken forever and the other person is out of their life for good and there's no chance of catching up for coffee some time (so to speak). Not a nice amicable divorce.

I've had concerns about where exactly the whole Charles/Erik relationship can go after XMFC without aping what had already happened in other X-Men movies, but I think that can be avoided as long as the writers keep writing them as different people from what their older versions are. With the older Erik and Charles, their mix of enmity/friendship has a rather lived-in, almost comfortable feel to it, whereas I expect that the relationship between the younger characters would have been a lot more charged because they're younger and are therefore more volatile and emotional.

[blueserenity]

I think that their "divorce" though is of a kind where each party believes that the relationship has been broken forever and the other person is out of their life for good and there's no chance of catching up for coffee some time (so to speak). Not a nice amicable divorce.

I've had concerns about where exactly the whole Charles/Erik relationship can go after XMFC without aping what had already happened in other X-Men movies, but I think that can be avoided as long as the writers keep writing them as different people from what their older versions are. With the older Erik and Charles, their mix of enmity/friendship has a rather lived-in, almost comfortable feel to it, whereas I expect that the relationship between the younger characters would have been a lot more charged because they're younger and are therefore more volatile and emotional.

EXACTLY! As McAvoy said in a recent interview, "we've got to be cleverer than that". Your comment about how they're younger and more volatile and emotional is spot on. It's why I'm looking forward to the angst in the sequel because I think it'll be heartwrenching. If they just skip over the part where Erik learns he paralysed Charles, I think that might be enough on its own to make me hate the movie forever. Seriously what they have to work with these two characters is golden.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

when do you think Fox will confirm the director?

Hopefully we will hear something soon, I really hope Vaughn comes back as he brought a bit of freshness to the franchise that it badly needed. I wouldnt be too heartbroken if it was Singer who replaced him though.

I will never forgive Penn and Kinberg for their fanboy trolling in 2006.

Agreed, that angered me so much, especially when a lot of promises they made turned out to be completely untrue.

EXACTLY! As McAvoy said in a recent interview, "we've got to be cleverer than that". Your comment about how they're younger and more volatile and emotional is spot on. It's why I'm looking forward to the angst in the sequel because I think it'll be heartwrenching. If they just skip over the part where Erik learns he paralysed Charles, I think that might be enough on its own to make me hate the movie forever. Seriously what they have to work with these two characters is golden.


I think they definately have to show Erik's reaction to realising that he paralysed his friend, this will be essential in showing the evolution of the characters and could explain why Erik returns to the school to help build Cerebro and recruit a few young mutants.

[X-Maniac]

As for the Xavier-Magneto split, yes, Erik was ready to kill thousands of people. This wasn't the moment that made them complete enemies though. It was the moment that their paths sharply diverged. I'm not kidding myself and saying they're still good friends. Just that they are not going to be fighting each other directly in the sequel. There's no reason to.

That's why I like the divorce analogy. They're drawing lines in the sand (no pun intended), but they're not going straight to full on fighting each other. I think they're both a little too shattered at the moment to consider it.

I agree with this. Erik didn't even know Xavier was paralysed when they all teleported away. They have chosen different paths but they are not archenemies wanting to destroy each other.

Nerial, I actually HATE that line in X3 as well because it was so out of left field. But at that point I was pretty desperate to see anything other than sainthood from Charles, something rippling on his perpetually calm surface. That line did the trick alright but unfortunately it had the "ripple" effect of someone dropping a giant stone into a small pond.

So thanks for that delightful line, Kinberg! Can't wait for more out of character stuff in XMFC2!

That line did seem a little odd, I agree.

But seriously, I'm hoping on some level FOX is aware what an effect Kinberg is having on sequel enthusiasts. I work in a video store and a customer was buying a Fassbender movie this aft. She brought up his work in XMFC and I told her about the sequel and she was really excited until I told her who was writing it. "Guess I'll be skipping that one" she said. A woman who loves XMFC and loves Michael Fassbender is already giving up on the sequel because X3 STILL has that effect on the franchise, 5 years and an excellent movie later. FOX wants a higher audience turnout? They need to ensure the important people (main cast and Vaughn, Singer, Goldman) are brought back for this project.

Kinberg was a producer on First Class and also did a lot of on-set script work, so it's not some random choice like they are bringing back someone who hasn't been involved in the franchise for five years.

It's too early to freak out just yet. And a bit silly to be condemning the follow-up already.

If Kinberg was so heavily involved in First Class, then we should expect the sequel to flow on much more than in the case of The Last Stand.

It's all in the very early (and slow-moving) stages. They are just getting the ball rolling.

[X-Maniac]

Agreed, that angered me so much, especially when a lot of promises they made turned out to be completely untrue.

Like everyone involved in a film, they are under contract to promote it, no matter what they might otherwise think. They were the credited writers - their name was on it so they had no real choice but to stand by what was in it. It's usually years later that cast and creators are free to speak the truth about their experiences.

Penn and Kinberg tried to engage with the fans but it all went a bit berserk because they were bombarded with endless stuff about Cyclops and they couldn't really spoil the movie, so they had to answer in a roundabout way.

I don't hold anything against them for that Q&A session. It proved that it's unwise for anyone involved in a film to try to interact that closely with fans. That's why Chris Nolan is off the radar (no emails, no mobile phone, etc), and why Singer said he doesn't look online when making a movie. It's just impossible to take all the fan chatter on board, and that Penn/Kinberg Q&A proved that it can't be done.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Like everyone involved in a film, they are under contract to promote it, no matter what they might otherwise think. They were the credited writers - their name was on it so they had no real choice but to stand by what was in it. It's usually years later that cast and creators are free to speak the truth about their experiences.

Penn and Kinberg tried to engage with the fans but it all went a bit berserk because they were bombarded with endless stuff about Cyclops and they couldn't really spoil the movie, so they had to answer in a roundabout way.

I don't hold anything against them for that Q&A session. It proved that it's unwise for anyone involved in a film to try to interact that closely with fans. That's why Chris Nolan is off the radar (no emails, no mobile phone, etc), and why Singer said he doesn't look online when making a movie. It's just impossible to take all the fan chatter on board, and that Penn/Kinberg Q&A proved that it can't be done.

I have no problem with someone promoting the movie, its their job too, but flat-out lying just isnt acceptable, I remember one specific question put to him was "Will Cyclops use his powers more than once in the movie?" To which he flat out replied "Yes." Stuff like this lead people to believe he was going to show in the final battle and naturally when he didnt people, myself included, were really pissed off. So this was just a flat out lie, and this is just one example of him doing it of which there were many.

They both handled the situation very poorly and it was made even worse afterwards when they continued to answer a few questions and just blamed the studio for the whole thing (though as far as I recall this was more Penn than Kinberg). They should have just said they were unable to answer questions that specific but I guess thats why hindsight is a wonderful thing. Either way, they should have expected a backlash when out-right lying to fans about what they were going to see in the movie.

[blueserenity]

Like everyone involved in a film, they are under contract to promote it, no matter what they might otherwise think. They were the credited writers - their name was on it so they had no real choice but to stand by what was in it. It's usually years later that cast and creators are free to speak the truth about their experiences.

Penn and Kinberg tried to engage with the fans but it all went a bit berserk because they were bombarded with endless stuff about Cyclops and they couldn't really spoil the movie, so they had to answer in a roundabout way.

I don't hold anything against them for that Q&A session. It proved that it's unwise for anyone involved in a film to try to interact that closely with fans. That's why Chris Nolan is off the radar (no emails, no mobile phone, etc), and why Singer said he doesn't look online when making a movie. It's just impossible to take all the fan chatter on board, and that Penn/Kinberg Q&A proved that it can't be done.

Sorry I wasn't paying attention to X3 before it hit theatres, what is all this about fanboy baiting around the film?

[X-Maniac]

I have no problem with someone promoting the movie, its their job too, but flat-out lying just isnt acceptable, I remember one specific question put to him was "Will Cyclops use his powers more than once in the movie?" To which he flat out replied "Yes." Stuff like this lead people to believe he was going to show in the final battle and naturally when he didnt people, myself included, were really pissed off. So this was just a flat out lie, and this is just one example of him doing it of which there were many.

In fairness, though, Cyclops did use his powers more than once. The first time he blasted into the lake, then after Jean emerged he opened his eyes and she held back the energy. So they weren't lying, they just weren't specific. And they never once promised Cyke would be back in the final battle - that was just something that fans were clinging to in the belief it would happen.

They both handled the situation very poorly and it was made even worse afterwards when they continued to answer a few questions and just blamed the studio for the whole thing (though as far as I recall this was more Penn than Kinberg). They should have just said they were unable to answer questions that specific but I guess thats why hindsight is a wonderful thing. Either way, they should have expected a backlash when out-right lying to fans about what they were going to see in the movie.

I don't recall them lying. They may have given non-specific answers that fans misinterpeted. I never felt cheated by their answers, i could see they were answering as best as they could.

[X-Maniac]

Sorry I wasn't paying attention to X3 before it hit theatres, what is all this about fanboy baiting around the film?

Kinberg and Penn engaged in a Q&A on an X-Men fan site that no longer exists, answering batches of fan questions every few days or so.

As fans suspected Cyclops would die, because of the leaked script pages, there were a lot of questions demanding answers on that and it became a challenge for them to answer the questions without giving too much away.

Answers were misinterpreted by people desperate to believe that Cyclops would not be killed off and as a result Kinberg and Penn were criticised by fans who felt misled.

Their attempt to engage with fans proved to be a mistake.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

In fairness, though, Cyclops did use his powers more than once. The first time he blasted into the lake, then after Jean emerged he opened his eyes and she held back the energy. So they weren't lying, they just weren't specific. And they never once promised Cyke would be back in the final battle - that was just something that fans were clinging to in the belief it would happen.

Sorry, I should have been more specific, the question was actually "Does Cyclops use his powers in more than one scene?" which he didnt in the movie as both of those uses were in the same scene, this is what lead to people speculating that he would be back in the final battle as I remember this specific question and its response being brought up as Kinberg tried to answer questions after the movie had been released also. At that point people also believed that the writers wouldnt falsely lead the fans astray as to whats in the movie, its why there was such outrage once people saw the movie.

I don't recall them lying. They may have given non-specific answers that fans misinterpeted. I never felt cheated by their answers, i could see they were answering as best as they could.

Stuff like the above counts as lying to me, its just like when Rothman said the rough cut of Wolverine that leaked was 10 shorter than the theatrical version, this was a flat out lie, as were some of the answers given by Kinberg and Penn. I understand they didnt want the whole movie spoiled, but questions like the above they should have avoided or said they couldnt answer.

[FilmNerdJamie]

Might also want to remind you kiddos hiring a writer is the cheapest part of the process of movie-making. It's not a sign that a First Class sequel is happening. Best not to jump to conclusions and build up any hopes just yet.

[X-Maniac]

Might also want to remind you kiddos hiring a writer is the cheapest part of the process of movie-making. It's not a sign that a First Class sequel is happening. Best not to jump to conclusions and build up any hopes just yet.

It's only in the early/slow stages at present, and with The Wolverine next to get going, I would imagine it will be a while before First Class 2 gets the studio's full attention.

Singer's finishing Jack The Giant Killer and prepping for Battlestar Galactica and Vaughn has said he wants to adapt two Millar projects, Superior and The Secret Service, so it could be some considerable time before all the planets are aligned for FC2.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Yeah, I'd say 2014 at the earliest is when we are going to get FC2, its entirely plausible it could be after that if Vaughn and Singer both have other commitments. Either way, i'd rather they took their time with it than rushing it.

[Angamb]

to take time with a movie means spend some years on the proyect...

not start in 2013 for a 2014 release.

That's why I think Fox should sign the director (Matthew) and make Singer comes back to start on the script process as soon as posible.

The more time they spend working on the movie, the better the movie will be.

[Avenger]

I don't think a director will be confirmed until late 2012, either during filming for The Wolverine or after it's been completed.

[Electrix]

It's only in the early/slow stages at present, and with The Wolverine next to get going, I would imagine it will be a while before First Class 2 gets the studio's full attention.

Singer's finishing Jack The Giant Killer and prepping for Battlestar Galactica and Vaughn has said he wants to adapt two Millar projects, Superior and The Secret Service, so it could be some considerable time before all the planets are aligned for FC2.

Singer was prepping for Jack the Giant Killer while X-Men: First Class was in production, so he could produce a FC sequel while in pre-production for Battlestar Galactica.

Vaughn wants to make Superior and The Secret Service but no studios are involved and no scripts exist. A sequel to First Class is ahead of both of them development-wise, plus Vaughn doesn't have to direct them. His production company have bought the movie rights so he'll want to make them eventually, but he could just produce and hire someone else to direct. A FC sequel is more likely to move forward simply because X-Men is a proven franchise. Nobody has heard of Superior or The Secret Service and its unlikely either will make X-Men numbers at the box office.

[Angamb]

I don't think a director will be confirmed until late 2012, either during filming for The Wolverine or after it's been completed.

late 2012??

if Fox wants to release it on 2014, they would shoot it on 2013, so no way they will sign the director at the end of 2012.

Matthew and Singer wants more time to develop the sequel.... so they HAVE to be signed in the next months.

[The Guard]

I expected hyperbole. Glad to see cooler heads are prevailing for the most part.

X-MEN: THE LAST STAND was written by Simon Kinerg and Zak Penn. Kinberg by himself is pretty solid. X-MEN: SECOND CLASS will give him an opportunity to prove naysayers wrong.

I suspect in a few years, people will be talking about Kinberg the way they talk about David Goyer. Solid superhero work, with occassional flashes of brilliance. FIRST CLASS was good, but not THAT well written, and I don't expect much of a drop off in quality.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Might also want to remind you kiddos hiring a writer is the cheapest part of the process of movie-making. It's not a sign that a First Class sequel is happening. Best not to jump to conclusions and build up any hopes just yet.This

[FilmNerdJamie]

Also kinda pisses me off to hear after hearing months and months of belly-aching about no First Sequel sequel, the first sign that one might happen and people are automatically belly-aching because they don't like the writer.

Can't have it both ways, children.

[Avenger]

late 2012??

if Fox wants to release it on 2014, they would shoot it on 2013, so no way they will sign the director at the end of 2012.

Matthew and Singer wants more time to develop the sequel.... so they HAVE to be signed in the next months.I didn't mean 'late 2012' as in November or December, more like September, maybe October at the latest. That would be more than enough time for pre-production if FC2 begins filming in spring/summer 2013. July or August are also possible, but really it all depends on Singer's or Vaughn's schedules. If Singer decides he wants to direct FC2, then Jack the Giant-Killer releases on June 15, so after that he'd probably be free to do FC2.

[chaseter]

Also kinda pisses me off to hear after hearing months and months of belly-aching about no First Sequel sequel, the first sign that one might happen and people are automatically belly-aching because they don't like the writer.

Can't have it both ways, children.

Weren't you saying that a First Class sequel wouldn't happen a few months back?

[FilmNerdJamie]

Weren't you saying that a First Class sequel wouldn't happen a few months back?

I still don't think there's going to be one. Hiring a writer doesn't mean anything definitive on its chances.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I think they have to do some sort of X-Men movie to keep hold of the rights and I dont think Wolverine solo movies count, I could be wrong, but if Wolverine movies do count they really didnt need to make First Class.

[Electrix]

Hugh Jackman could hang up the claws after The Wolverine so Fox will need to continue the franchise somehow. X-Men: First Class was a financial and critical success, so it'd be stupid not to make a sequel.

Fox hiring Kinberg to write the script shows Fox intends to make a sequel. That doesn't mean it will happen (X-Men Origins: Magneto, for example), but it's likely that it will if all the stars align. Casting isn't an issue as they're all locked, it's just getting Vaughn back between now and 2013 (if they're planning a 2014 release). I get the feeling Vaughn is already involved with the next film unofficially.

[Thebumwhowalks]

I get the feeling Vaughn is already involved with the next film unofficially.


My instincts say he isn't. I guess because there is more evidence to say he is not, than is.
eg No other writers like Singer, Vaughn or Jane Goldman being mentioned as even brainstorming a story idea for the screenplay.

[Electrix]

Just because SHH didn't mention it in their article doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I doubt Kinberg would start writing the script without talking to the producers (Singer/Donner) beforehand. Jason Flemyng wouldn't have known a script was being written (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a348881/x-mens-jason-flemyng-im-in-fassbenders-gang-for-the-sequel.html) if Vaughn hadn't told him.

On the Blu-ray features Kinberg said he emailed Vaughn to see if he wanted to direct X:FC, so they've probably communicated at some point between the films release and now. If Vaughn is still interested in directing the sequel (as he was back in June) then he'll want to be involved in some capacity.

[Thebumwhowalks]

Just a gut feeling, but I don't think he is involved in any degree at this point in time, and if he does get involved, it won't be for quite a while.

[danoyse]

Hugh Jackman could hang up the claws after The Wolverine so Fox will need to continue the franchise somehow. X-Men: First Class was a financial and critical success, so it'd be stupid not to make a sequel.

I'm thinking this will likely be his last Wolverine film too. When I saw his one-man show on Broadway last week, he referred to The Wolverine as "Wolverine 16". :funny:

[Thebumwhowalks]

I'm thinking this will likely be his last Wolverine film too. When I saw his one-man show on Broadway last week, he referred to The Wolverine as "Wolverine 16". :funny:

I think he will do a trilogy of Wolverine films, he is very attached to the character.
He holds the record for number of times appearing as the same superhero on film.

the scoreboard reads...

Jackman/Wolverine - 5 (with The Wolverine pending for 6)
Stewart/Xavier - 4/Chris Reeve/Supes - 4
RDJ/Iron-Man - 3(with Avengers pending for 4)

hell, i bet he'd do further X-Men films too if they were being planned.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I still don't think there's going to be one. Hiring a writer doesn't mean anything definitive on its chances.I don't think that there is going to be one either...I could be wrong but those are just my feelings.

[Optimus_Prime_]

I don't like jumping to conclusions, but the fact that he wrote X3 has me a tad worried. I liked Sherlock Holmes, but I don't think he's right for the X-men universe.
He did well on Sherlock Holmes so I have no doubt he can deliver a good First Class sequel. I think people here have a natural aversion to X3: The Last Stand so we're all sitting on the edge of our seats. Had he written 2012 or another underwhelming action movie not featuring X-Men I think we'd all be less worried.

Let me play Devil's Advocate though. Wasn't he publically apologetic to X3? Didn't he even disagree with killing Cyclops? Maybe this is all a good thing. Perhaps him knowing very personally the bad response to X3 will make him work really hard to deliver a quality X-Men film. Maybe he'll even try to make up for shafting Cyclops, possibly through Havok. Explore some Summers' family history. As I say, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. First Class definitely allows them to redo or retool things we weren't wild about in the last film(s).

[Angamb]

yeah, this is a great oportunity for him.

so I hope he doesnt dissapoint this time. specially, lets hope the studio doesnt push him to include things he doesnt want to

[RachelDawes]

I hope Vaughn isn't scared off by the sex scandal that occurred during the filming of XFC.

Matthew Vaughn, if you're reading this, please come back and direct the sequel!

[craigdbfan]

The sequel is happening.
:exp:

[Thebumwhowalks]

The sequel is happening.
:exp:

What a load of crystals.

[blueserenity]

I hope Vaughn isn't scared off by the sex scandal that occurred during the filming of XFC.

Matthew Vaughn, if you're reading this, please come back and direct the sequel!

Sex scandal? This is the first I've heard of it. If this is re: January Jones, I have a feeling she's keeping mum on the dad (har har) because there WAS no dad (AI).

[Loganbabe]

Didn't he even disagree with killing Cyclops?
Did he disagree about killing Charles as well?
Or probably he also believed that Charles Xavier was a boring character who happened to be just a cripple and a teacher. :dry:
Not very hopeful for this sequel. :csad:

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I don't think that there is going to be one either...I could be wrong but those are just my feelings.

I think studios are being a bit more bold with making sequels to movies that werent that successful now-a-days. I think its because of the economic climate they would rather make a sequel to something mildly successful than an original piece which could fail completely. The fact that we are getting sequels to G.I Joe, Ghost Rider and Chronicles Of Riddick shows this IMO, and FC was more successful than all of these movies.

[Optimus_Prime_]

I hope Vaughn isn't scared off by the sex scandal that occurred during the filming of XFC.

Matthew Vaughn, if you're reading this, please come back and direct the sequel!
Sex scandal? You mean the purpose of directing a big summer blockbuster isn't to bang all the hot actresses you cast?

[Optimus_Prime_]

Did he disagree about killing Charles as well?
Or probably he also believed that Charles Xavier was a boring character who happened to be just a cripple and a teacher. :dry:
Not very hopeful for this sequel. :csad:
From what I remember it was very studio driven, but I remember them saying something about not approving the film's general direction. Kinberg's done good movies and he was involved in X-Men: First Class as a producer. I mean honestly Jumper, Sherlock Holmes and Mr. and Mrs. Smith is not a bad resume. Even X-Men 3: The Last Stand wasn't horrible if you forgive the wanton disregard for Cyclops, Xavier, Rogue and others - it, as an action movie, was above average. It had phenomenal set pieces, and the pacing was good. So really all in all cut the guy some slack, he's clearly a decent writer. The more I think about his role in X3 the more I feel he's probably the one that kept it from being another Catwoman.

Let's look at the things he did well in that movie. For one in X3 he balanced the characters he used well, and did a great job of displaying all their powers. He also wrote a great Magneto in X3, really much better than X1. Let's be honest here; Xavier won't die in the next XFC, there is a chance at redoing Cyclops or expanding the Summers clan in some way, and Kinberg really does seem to be a fan. I simply just don't doubt him unless Vaughn jumps ship and they get some god awful director to replace him.

[RachelDawes]

Sex scandal? This is the first I've heard of it. If this is re: January Jones, I have a feeling she's keeping mum on the dad (har har) because there WAS no dad (AI).

Yeah, that's what I meant by sex scandal. I doubt Jones's kid came from AI, either, since it's not so controversial that one couldn't admit it. Certainly it would have been better to let the public believe that she'd gotten AI rather than that she'd slept with her married director.

PS, when you said AI, my mind went straight to the Spielberg movie and I thought you meant that the big secret was that Jones's kid was an android. :hehe:

Sex scandal? You mean the purpose of directing a big summer blockbuster isn't to bang all the hot actresses you cast?

I'm sure many directors would like it to be.

[Angamb]

I think studios are being a bit more bold with making sequels to movies that werent that successful now-a-days. I think its because of the economic climate they would rather make a sequel to something mildly successful than an original piece which could fail completely. The fact that we are getting sequels to G.I Joe, Ghost Rider and Chronicles Of Riddick shows this IMO, and FC was more successful than all of these movies.

you made a point.

Studios are preffering sequels to "old" franchises than new franchises.

[blueserenity]

Yeah, that's what I meant by sex scandal. I doubt Jones's kid came from AI, either, since it's not so controversial that one couldn't admit it. Certainly it would have been better to let the public believe that she'd gotten AI rather than that she'd slept with her married director.

PS, when you said AI, my mind went straight to the Spielberg movie and I thought you meant that the big secret was that Jones's kid was an android. :hehe:



I'm sure many directors would like it to be.

You have a point. Plus it'd be pretty random if she decided to go for AI mid-filming. Well in a few years those who still care can start drawing physical comparisons between the potentials. By the time the kid is old enough for that the whole XMFC trilogy will probably be done so I'm not too worried about a scandal even if Vaughn is the father. Actually come to think of it it'd make sense if they were involved. That's the only reason I can think of that she'd be hired for the role. I've never seen her in anything else so I'm not sure, but every moment she was onscreen she made it seem like she'd rather be off having a root canal than playing the character.

Also I also thought of A.I. when I typed it! haha. I actually had to google it to see if there was another acronym like AIS or something but nope. Secretly I hope the kid is also a cyborg though, that would be so badass. :D

[Thebumwhowalks]

January Jones is very good in Mad Men, but I think her somewhat delicate manner of speaking was not too suited for EF.
Like, in that scene where she cuts the circle of glass and addresses the agents, that delivery needed a little more 'evil' in there, the way it was delivered was more like she was doing a scene from MM where she was putting another woman down as they crossed trolleys in the supermarket.
Maybe you could say it was underplayed, but i think that was the best she could do with it, and it needed a little more oomph.
I didn't mind her performance though, it didn't annoy me and she had great screen presence of the type that EF should have.

and I forgot all about that sex scandal rumour thingmajig, man, if that does not get resolved once and for all in regards to who the father of the baby is, that could be a real deterrent to MV coming back. because of course, people will wonder why she is not revealing who the father of the baby is.

[blueserenity]

January Jones is very good in Mad Men, but I think her somewhat delicate manner of speaking was not too suited for EF.
Like, in that scene where she cuts the circle of glass and addresses the agents, that delivery needed a little more 'evil' in there, the way it was delivered was more like she was doing a scene from MM where she was putting another woman down as they crossed trolleys in the supermarket.
Maybe you could say it was underplayed, but i think that was the best she could do with it, and it needed a little more oomph.
I didn't mind her performance though, it didn't annoy me and she had great screen presence of the type that EF should have.

and I forgot all about that sex scandal rumour thingmajig, man, if that does not get resolved once and for all in regards to who the father of the baby is, that could be a real deterrent to MV coming back. because of course, people will wonder why she is not revealing who the father of the baby is.

I don't know that it needs to be resolved, I think people should just leave her be. She's made it clear she's not telling, and that's that. It could be a scandal, or it could be something much more innocuous. Maybe she just had a totally legit one night stand, she got pregnant from it, but she decided that she didn't want whoever she had the ONS with to take on a father role. If it came out for example that Fassbender was the father, there would be huge media pressure for him to take up responsibility for the kid, even if he and JJ had discussed it and she had made clear that she would rather he not get involved. And if it came out that the kid was the result of a one-night stand, that kid would never live it down.

I don't know, as much as I don't like JJ I'm sure she has her reasons for not naming the father and I think she deserves privacy on the matter. Revealing who the father was would probably only hurt the careers of those involved at this point, so best to leave it.

[Thebumwhowalks]

Ok, I have not been following that story, so thanks for the info.

[Loganbabe]

Fassbender thinks that the next movie should focus more on Charles Xavier...I wholeheartedly agree. :yay::up:

Collider (http://collider.com/michael-fassbender-x-men-first-class-sequel/126002/)

[blueserenity]

Fassbender thinks that the next movie should focus more on Charles Xavier...I wholeheartedly agree. :yay::up:

Collider (http://collider.com/michael-fassbender-x-men-first-class-sequel/126002/)

Hear hear! Magneto still needs attention tho and with Fassy probs up for an Oscar nom this year the studio will probably want to keep the line Magneto-centric. :/

We need more on CHARLES though! His whole life just changed in unimaginable ways, and I'm not just talking about his beach divorce.

[Loganbabe]

We need more on CHARLES though!
Yes, please! :highfive:

His whole life just changed in unimaginable ways, and I'm not just talking about his beach divorce.
Exactly. I see Charles as a whole different person in the sequel - more mature, much less carefree, and somehow trying to balance his eternal optimism with the darkness, after all that happened to him in the end of FC.
It would be really great if they could show at least one scene of young Charles discovering his powers and how they affected him...I was so annoyed we never see it happening in a movie that was set to show his origins too, after all.

But it worries me greatly that everyone involved will insist in making Magneto the center of attention once again, especially with Kinberg writing. And if Vaughn is directing I won't have any hopes that we'll have a story more focused on Charles. He'll keep on favoring his Bondneto. :csad:

[blueserenity]

Yes, please! :highfive:


Exactly. I see Charles as a whole different person in the sequel - more mature, much less carefree, and somehow trying to balance his eternal optimism with the darkness, after all that happened to him in the end of FC.
It would be really great if they could show at least one scene of young Charles discovering his powers and how they affected him...I was so annoyed we never see it happening in a movie that was set to show his origins too, after all.

But it worries me greatly that everyone involved will insist in making Magneto the center of attention once again, especially with Kinberg writing. And if Vaughn is directing I won't have any hopes that we'll have a story more focused on Charles. He'll keep on favoring his Bondneto. :csad:

I don't think it will be Bondneto in the sequel. Angstneto is more like it, especially after he learns the extent of the stray bullet damage (honestly if they never made a full sequel and just made the scene of where Charles and Erik meet again for the first time after Cuba I would be 1000% satisfied). And I am totally cool with that. I think both men should be given ample screen time.

I'm not quite sure how they could go back to Charles as a kid though. The actor who played him will be a teenager by the time they get around to filming this thing, and unlike kid Erik it'd be hard to suspend disbelief with a new actor. Especially because it's the very first time we meet Charles AND Raven and everything about that scene is so important that it's really hard to disassociate that kid actor with kidCharles. Does that make sense? I'm not good at being succinct.

What WOULD be an interesting thing isn't kidCharles, but young teenager Charles as he discovers his powers. The only thing we can see kidCharles do is communicate telepathically. Everything else is just observational (he could have read Raven's mind to learn she wasn't his mom, instead he only figures it out because his "mom" was nice to him). What if at that point he could only communicate telepathically? And the ability to read minds didn't come until later? It might be neat to have teenaged Charles go through that, with Raven there to back him up. It'd be a cool opportunity to show the age difference too, which Charles starting to grow much older than Raven. They could draw parallels too with Erik as a teenager, what he was doing after he was released from the camps. Did he take time to try and lead a normal life or did he go straight to Nazi hunting?

I don't know, there is so bloody much they could do with a sequel as long as they don't let it be X3. But fingers crossed Vaughn is returning and all my worries will be washed away. :)

[Loganbabe]

Teen Charles would be great. Maybe showing when he, inadvertently, harmed someone using his powers? And how, because of that, he learned the importance of control and "with great power comes great responsabilty", which would shape the future Professor X.
Also in a parallel, the first time teen Erik used his power to purposely harm someone (because in FC it was more like an aimless explosion) and how we begin to see the differences between Charles and Erik shaping.

The only thing I worry about Vaughn returning is that he'll continue to ignore the many interesting aspects of Charles and his power. I never read an interview in which he had at least one nice word to say about Charles, or in which he showed a small fraction of interest in the character. I really don't think this will change, frankly. :dry:

[blueserenity]

Teen Charles would be great. Maybe showing when he, inadvertently, harmed someone using his powers? And how, because of that, he learned the importance of control and "with great power comes great responsabilty", which would shape the future Professor X.
Also in a parallel, the first time teen Erik used his power to purposely harm someone (because in FC it was more like an aimless explosion) and how we begin to see the differences between Charles and Erik shaping.

The only thing I worry about Vaughn returning is that he'll continue to ignore the many interesting aspects of Charles and his power. I never read an interview in which he had at least one nice word to say about Charles, or in which he showed a small fraction of interest in the character. I really don't think this will change, frankly. :dry:

It might. If McAvoy and Fassbender are able to get in there and chat ideas with him early on, they might be able to persuade him that at this point Charles is story gold. And the negative stuff I've seen him say about Charles seems to have been mostly directed at older Charles which is totally legit. I love Patrick Stewart but I didn't care at all about Charles in the older movies. I kinda doubt XMFC2 will be Charles-centric (esp. with Kinberg writing the first draft and setting down the first ideas) but I think Vaughn knows he would be remiss not to give him a fair amount of screentime. And again, considering that he considers oldmovieCharles boring, this movie Charles will still be in transition so that's good. :)

[def28]

What the **** is Simon Kinberg doing on this flick? Hope it doesnt get overloaded with new characters. Feel free to add Fantomex though.

Is Vaughn confirmed yet?

[Marvel]

More Charles is ok but we need this for sure in the sequel...

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302169_10150459920139804_364544669803_10589939_116 4682925_n.jpg

[Quetzal]

^ That is arguably the greatest post I have seen here.

[craigdbfan]

More Charles is ok but we need this for sure in the sequel...

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302169_10150459920139804_364544669803_10589939_116 4682925_n.jpg

:lmao:

Thundercats eat your heart out.

[bunk]

That's hilarious.

[Loganbabe]

Lolz! :funny:

[merbass]

I hope this is not one of those news that came out to promote the BD / DVD release then disappeared altogether. Remember Narnia ? It made more money than XFC and sequel was in the work then everything is just gone.

[Mrs Vimes]

It would be really great if they could show at least one scene of young Charles discovering his powers and how they affected him...

I doubt it will happen unless it somehow links with the plot of the movie. I mean, one of the reasons why we got to see Erik first discovering his powers in detail was because they attract Shaw's attention and that's where the whole revenge story kicks off. Whereas Charles' discovery of his powers is not really linked to the Shaw/Cuban missile crisis story in the same way.

[danoyse]

More Charles is ok but we need this for sure in the sequel...

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302169_10150459920139804_364544669803_10589939_116 4682925_n.jpg

:lmao:

Maybe a First Class Christmas special?

[Optimus_Prime_]

What the **** is Simon Kinberg doing on this flick? Hope it doesnt get overloaded with new characters. Feel free to add Fantomex though.

Is Vaughn confirmed yet?
I'd like to see Fantomex.

[Nerial]

I doubt it will happen unless it somehow links with the plot of the movie. I mean, one of the reasons why we got to see Erik first discovering his powers in detail was because they attract Shaw's attention and that's where the whole revenge story kicks off. Whereas Charles' discovery of his powers is not really linked to the Shaw/Cuban missile crisis story in the same way.

Have to agree. Unless there's a purpose to show Charles discovering his powers that's directly related to the main plot, then there's no point to it. I'm not saying I don't want to see it, but I want a tightly-woven story more.

[Loganbabe]

I mean, one of the reasons why we got to see Erik first discovering his powers in detail was because they attract Shaw's attention and that's where the whole revenge story kicks off. Whereas Charles' discovery of his powers is not really linked to the Shaw/Cuban missile crisis story in the same way.
But the problem is that the story was supposed to be about the origins of both Erik and Charles, and not just Erik's powers and how they related with Shaw. If the movie was called Magneto: Origins okay, but it wasn't. That's the biggest problem I have with FC - I always expected it would be the story of Xavier too, but it seems he was in the story just to be of service to Magneto's story. That's sad. Unfortunately I agree they will do nothing to change the situation in Second Class and show Charles learning about his powers when they had the chance to do it in FC; it's just wishful thinking from me.

[Nerial]

But the problem is that the story was supposed to be about the origins of both Erik and Charles, and not just Erik's powers and how they related with Shaw. If the movie was called Magneto: Origins okay, but it wasn't. That's the biggest problem I have with FC - I always expected it would be the story of Xavier too, but it seems he was in the story just to be of service to Magneto's story. That's sad. Unfortunately I agree they will do nothing to change the situation in Second Class and show Charles learning about his powers when they had the chance to do it in FC; it's just wishful thinking from me.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you, Loganbabe. While I do believe that Erik's story arc came full-circle in XMFC (and he had the better plotline, to be honest), there was no point to show Charles' telepathic origins. He got to see him as a child; he got to see him generously offering his home to a fellow mutant, plus he still got to use his powers in that scene. We got a sense that of his empathic personality and good-hearted nature--that, to me, is more important than seeing him first figuring out that he's telepathic.

[Loganbabe]

But why showing Charles' telepathy manifesting wouldn't be a point, since the movie was about his story as well? Or at least is was supposed to be?
I think that there needed to be a bit more of conflict to Charles. They made it seem as if being a telepath is like the easiest thing in the world and why, a young boy hearing voices inside his head would think it was a really natural thing to happen and not worry at all.
The audience usually identify themselves with conflicted characters; while I love good damaged and dark character as much as the next person, I strongly disagree that a flawed character is necessarily "better". Showing that Charles was a good-hearted man and his empathy was really nice and all, but frankly, a good portion of the audience - especially the young male audience - thought he was just a bumbling idiot and a pampered rich boy. Showing a bit more of turmoil when his power manifested would be really interesting for his development. I don't think it's simply "easy" to be a telepath.

[blueserenity]

But why showing Charles' telepathy manifesting wouldn't be a point, since the movie was about his story as well? Or at least is was supposed to be?
I think that there needed to be a bit more of conflict to Charles. They made it seem as if being a telepath is like the easiest thing in the world and why, a young boy hearing voices inside his head would think it was a really natural thing to happen and not worry at all.
The audience usually identify themselves with conflicted characters; while I love good damaged and dark character as much as the next person, I strongly disagree that a flawed character is necessarily "better". Showing that Charles was a good-hearted man and his empathy was really nice and all, but frankly, a good portion of the audience - especially the young male audience - thought he was just a bumbling idiot and a pampered rich boy. Showing a bit more of turmoil when his power manifested would be really interesting for his development. I don't think it's simply "easy" to be a telepath.

I agree with Nerial. As cool as it would be to go in-depth into Charles' past, it's not really necessary, especially in a 2hr long movie. If XMFC was a TV series, absolutely. But there is nothing in Charles' past that can advance the plot, really. We learn the key things about his history within the first 15 mins of the film. He is rich and spoiled, but also a fairly lonely child who spent the first 12 years of his life dreaming that he would one day find someone like him and together they would make each other not alone anymore. His parents didn't love him as seen by the photo, the fakemum's sweetness, and the idea that a little blonde girl could just live with them and no one would notice. We learn that his father died at some point in his life and his mother remarried and it's hinted that stepdad was maybe a little paranoid. In comicverse Charles was abused by said stepdad, but I don't think that's necessary in this universe. And obviously, Charles didn't have a half-brother in this verse either.

Anyway the stuff that happened to Charles in his past isn't nearly as relevant as what's happening in his present. There is nothing in there that would advance the plot and in such a limited timeframe flashbacks have to have meaning.
I think Charles' REAL telepathic advances will happen now. With his body not entirely under his control anymore I imagine it will mean a lot more time spent in his head. He really is the most bloody powerful mutant you can think of and I don't think that's dawned on him yet (though it may have dawned on Erik). He's been so busy helping others hone their powers and just arrogant enough to believe he's reached his peak so he doesn't really need training. The sequel can change all that and with those new powers come new plots or new ways to beat the baddies or what have you. That is the only kind of Charles development I can see. I would be genuinely (but pleasantly)surprised if they flashback at all. You just don't need to.

Sorry Loganbabe, I know Xavier's your favorite but I'm just being reaistic. :/

[Loganbabe]

We learn the key things about his history within the first 15 mins of the film.
I really doubt most viewers really got all you're talking about, though. We get it because we spend a lot of time thinking about the movie and the characters. I was having a conversation about the Charles/Erik dynamics with a friend of mine who likes the X-Men (in movies) but not to the point of dedicating herself to forums and reading stuff and all that, and she was like "well, there's a whole lot of things about Charles I never thought about" - because she was team Erik all the way when she watched the movie, she could identify only with his side of the story and the motives for what he did what he did, because after all it's his side of the story that was shown. She's still team Erik btw, but not so much more just a "I liked that Charles was a bit of a drunk and a lousy flirt and that was it".

Anyway, we don't even know if there will be a second movie; and if there is a second movie I highly doubt Vaughn will "see the light" and start to care about Charles Xavier and his problems. I wish he would but I'm really pessimist about it. Charles will just remain underdeveloped then, as it seems to be a consensus.

[Mrs Vimes]

\The audience usually identify themselves with conflicted characters; while I love good damaged and dark character as much as the next person, I strongly disagree that a flawed character is necessarily "better". Showing that Charles was a good-hearted man and his empathy was really nice and all, but frankly, a good portion of the audience - especially the young male audience - thought he was just a bumbling idiot and a pampered rich boy. Showing a bit more of turmoil when his power manifested would be really interesting for his development. I don't think it's simply "easy" to be a telepath.

I don't see though how showing Charles' turmoil over telepathy would make him more appealing to the audience who prefer a damaged and dark character. I mean yes, you could give him a more angsty backstory but he is simply not, essentially, a dark character and whatever he'd have gone through in his childhood just can't stack up in drama and pain department to Erik's past - and it's not like anyone in the audience can relate to the experience of telepathy either. I can't see how you could make him more interesting to people who think that good-hearted, empathetic characters are "boring" without totally re-writing him at the core. And let's face it - Charles is just not an action-oriented, physical character like Erik or Wolverine - of course they're going to be more popular with young male audience.

Also, apart from two scenes for each character (well two for Erik but his scene with Shaw happens very soon after the first manifestation of his powers), the movie doesn't dwell much on either of Charles and Erik's childhoods and jumps straight into their adult lives. If you're going to explore the trouble Charles might have had with his telepathy in childhood, there's not much point in just showing it briefly and then moving on to present times when Charles is totally in control and happily uses telepathy to pick up girls. You'd have to show some development in between over the years for his turmoil to actually have any resonance and that doesn't really fit with the momentum of the story. This is after all not a character piece, it's a fast-paced comic book movie.

And I think that it's not that Charles' side of the story wasn't shown, it's simply that his side is not as emotionally charged and dramatic in this movie, whether or not you include telepathy angst or lonely childhood or whatever (I'm course talking about the majority of the movie because Charles' injury near the end and what it means for him is a whole different story - but it does only happen at the very end). Erik's connection to the main Shaw storyline - revenge of a loved one - would always make his storyline much more compelling to many people.

But in terms of actual screentime, I don't think that Charles got any less of it than Erik. In fact there are a few scenes where Charles and Erik are both present with focus clearly on Charles and Erik just sorta hanging around in the background.

[Mrs Vimes]

Personally, what I'd like to see more in these movies (not that I think it's going to happen) is a tad more complexity given to the whole human/mutant relations. I know that the main characters are mutants and the whole series is from the mutant point of view, but I always feel that the challenges that the individuals with superhuman abilities present to human society aren't really acknowledged and basically whenever someone brings up the whole question of security it's always by loathesome bigots, which IMO is a rather easy way out of that discussion.

[def28]

I'd like to see Fantomex.

If they had Darwin and Chick Angel I dont see why Fantomex couldnt be added. I think hed be a solid fit into the First Class series , a faux french thief during the time period could be entertaining. His powers and explaining the World may be a bit tricky, then again they never get things right/explain origins correctly in these movies so Im sure it wouldnt be a problem.

[Nerial]

I don't see though how showing Charles' turmoil over telepathy would make him more appealing to the audience who prefer a damaged and dark character. I mean yes, you could give him a more angsty backstory but he is simply not, essentially, a dark character and whatever he'd have gone through in his childhood just can't stack up in drama and pain department to Erik's past - and it's not like anyone in the audience can relate to the experience of telepathy either. I can't see how you could make him more interesting to people who think that good-hearted, empathetic characters are "boring" without totally re-writing him at the core. And let's face it - Charles is just not an action-oriented, physical character like Erik or Wolverine - of course they're going to be more popular with young male audience.

Also, apart from two scenes for each character (well two for Erik but his scene with Shaw happens very soon after the first manifestation of his powers), the movie doesn't dwell much on either of Charles and Erik's childhoods and jumps straight into their adult lives. If you're going to explore the trouble Charles might have had with his telepathy in childhood, there's not much point in just showing it briefly and then moving on to present times when Charles is totally in control and happily uses telepathy to pick up girls. You'd have to show some development in between over the years for his turmoil to actually have any resonance and that doesn't really fit with the momentum of the story. This is after all not a character piece, it's a fast-paced comic book movie.

And I think that it's not that Charles' side of the story wasn't shown, it's simply that his side is not as emotionally charged and dramatic in this movie, whether or not you include telepathy angst or lonely childhood or whatever (I'm course talking about the majority of the movie because Charles' injury near the end and what it means for him is a whole different story - but it does only happen at the very end). Erik's connection to the main Shaw storyline - revenge of a loved one - would always make his storyline much more compelling to many people.

But in terms of actual screentime, I don't think that Charles got any less of it than Erik. In fact there are a few scenes where Charles and Erik are both present with focus clearly on Charles and Erik just sorta hanging around in the background.

Loganbade, I have to agree with Mrs. Vimes completely on this. I'm a huge Charles fan myself, but the only way to make him more appealing to the general male audience is to change his character completely. As Mrs. Vimes pointed out, Charles has never been the action-oriented character or the Magneto/Wolverine type. I wouldn't want him to be; it's just not his way.

The audience got to know Charles well enough through the movie to either love him, like him or hate him. He got plenty of screen time and even had moments where he got to shine (the training montage, saving Erik's life, the meeting at the CIA, and the parts where he was hitting on women were some of the funniest in the movie--just to name a few). You can't force the audience to love a character, even by showing more of them, including their childhood. They liked Magneto better; that's fine. I liked Charles better and that's fine, too.

I hope, just as you do, that Charles goes through some serious turmoil in the next movie--with his injury and everything else--it would just make sense that he'd be messed up to some extent. But it's still a comic book blockbuster, and things still need to go BOOM.

As far as XMFC is concerned--say all you want, but if it weren't for that movie, I would not have become a Charles fan. I've always liked Xavier, but thought he was a little too good. And even if McAvoy thought up the idea to make Charles into a partying lady's man, MV and the writers would have to approve it. And they did and it was great.

But a good story is one that focuses on the main plot. If it's not relevant to the main plot in some fashion, it shouldn't be included. Charles learning about his telepathy was not relevant; the writers didn't include it. That's all there is to it.

[Loganbabe]

It seems that we'll have to agree to disagree, then. I still think that Charles was in the movie just to be of service to Magneto's story, and maybe it'll continue to be like this in the next. James' dedication and ideas to the character somehow avoided Charles being too much of wallpaper in FC, but since he's now a "cripple and a teacher" and they have to find "Magneto's new nemesis", well...maybe he'll have even less to do. Who knows, he might even enjoy and it, and he'll still get payed.

[Nerial]

It seems that we'll have to agree to disagree, then. I still think that Charles was in the movie just to be of service to Magneto's story, and maybe it'll continue to be like this in the next. James' dedication and ideas to the character somehow avoided Charles being too much of wallpaper in FC, but since he's now a "cripple and a teacher" and they have to find "Magneto's new nemesis", well...maybe he'll have even less to do. Who knows, he might even enjoy and it, and he'll still get payed.

I will say this--the heart of XMFC was the relationship between Erik and Charles; without it, the movie would have sucked. Almost every critic's review praised how well that relationship worked and without it, the next movie will be flat. So they have to figure out a way to get these two together again or at least, have them facing the same issues (which isn't too hard--they're both mutants).

[blueserenity]

I agree Nerial. I was never a Charles fan, EVER, and now he's my second-favorite character (lost by a hair to Erik). I'm sure I've written this before, but thought he was super interesting because he was suddenly REAL. He has flaws and weaknesses like normal people. You don't have to be damaged to be interesting. Some of the most screwed up characters are tremendously boring. But you can't be perfect either, and young Charles showed he was "human" and makes mistakes. Which is awesome.

XMFC was Magneto's film more than the other characters', I agree with that, but Charles was very much a close second. It was Magneto's tragedy that drove the film, which is fine. Charles is the glue that holds the X-Men together. He's not really the one who takes initiative in this film. If he had never met Moira and learned of the Hellfire club, he probably would have been content to living his life as before-- chatting up the ladies and quietly being a mutant. Erik on the other hand is a man who never stops moving, so he really has to be the one to drive the action. Hence, this movie was a little more his than Charles', but really it was THEIR film. You hit the nail on the head Nerial, this movie would have sucked without their chemistry. :)

Oh dear, rambling again. TL;DR, I love Charles, I love Erik more, but I don't think XMFC skimped on Charles. :)

[Loganbabe]

Erik on the other hand is a man who never stops moving, so he really has to be the one to drive the action. Hence, this movie was a little more his than Charles', but really it was THEIR film.
It'll always be about Magneto, then. He'll always be the one to drive the action, hence Vaughn already stating "we have to find a new nemesis to fight Magneto, now that Charles is in a wheelchair".
Maybe it's great and all if you're a Magneto fan, which is not my case. I loved their chemistry and the idea of Charles and Erik working together, but from the moment Erik decided to put that helmet on, turn into Magneto and leave his brother dying at some beach, well...I really despise what he did. And I see nothing interesting or exciting in Magneto trying to kill Kennedy or battling some cool new villain, which is maybe what the next writer will try to bring into the film - more cool action scenes (which would leave Charles entirely out of the picture) and less character development.

Yes, a lot of people loved them together, but Charles and Erik are enemies now, and I doubt the next film will change this. They will be separated entities, sharing maybe two or three great scenes and that will be it. Vaughn and the writers and the producers will simply chose to keep the focus on Magneto, since he's the one the audience seems to be more interested in. And voilá. As someone who is as tired of Magneto as others are tired of Wolverine, I'll simply avoid Second Class if the focus is on him again. No big deal...the first time I read about FC I expected it to be more a Charles and the X-Men story, it wasn't, I think I'm more than prepared to expect the next to continue focusing on Magneto's crusade against humanity. Because villains will always be cooler, it seems.

[Mrs Vimes]

Charles is the glue that holds the X-Men together. He's not really the one who takes initiative in this film. If he had never met Moira and learned of the Hellfire club, he probably would have been content to living his life as before-- chatting up the ladies and quietly being a mutant.

True but I'd also argue that it's Charles who was driving the whole mutant initiative, and Erik mostly going along with him; had he not convinced Erik to join up, Erik would just have gone on his one-man mission and most likely would have perished. And though they were working together, I always had a sense that Charles was really in charge with Erik as his right hand man - Charles just seems to automatically act as a leader around everyone else. It was really rather striking how much the power balance between them shifted once Erik put on that helmet.

[blueserenity]

Yes, a lot of people loved them together, but Charles and Erik are enemies now, and I doubt the next film will change this. They will be separated entities, sharing maybe two or three great scenes and that will be it. Vaughn and the writers and the producers will simply chose to keep the focus on Magneto, since he's the one the audience seems to be more interested in. And voilá. As someone who is as tired of Magneto as others are tired of Wolverine, I'll simply avoid Second Class if the focus is on him again. No big deal...the first time I read about FC I expected it to be more a Charles and the X-Men story, it wasn't, I think I'm more than prepared to expect the next to continue focusing on Magneto's crusade against humanity. Because villains will always be cooler, it seems.

People keep making this mistake-- they're not enemies now. They're not exactly friends, they're in a grey area between. Yes, Magneto did something horrible by leaving him on the beach (as much as I love him, this move was unforgivable). But as I've said before, neither one of them has done something to pit the two groups directly against each other, they're just on diverging paths for now. And these are still two men who love each other deeply. I mean they always will, but it's not enough yet for them to make that secondary and become direct enemies.

I'm not sure why you keep generalizing, such things as "villains are always cooler" or "people always go for the messed up characters". They're simply not true. Personally all of my favorite comic characters save for Erik are heroes. Magneto was never in my top 10 until 1) he was more of an anti-hero in XMFC than a flat out villain and 2) he was played by Michael Fassbender. If villains were always cooler, they'd all have their own comic lines or films.

I will say (again) though that I believe audiences often need characters they can relate to. If you make them too pure, too saintly, too god-like, too devoid of even small flaws, a lot of the audience can lose interest because the characters are too untouchable, or too simple. Examples: oldmovieCharles (no visible flaws until X3 when he uncharacteristically snaps at Wolverine), Superman (I find Clark more interesting), Captain America (seriously he had no flaws whatsoever, and hardly any personality either beyond HEROIC). I don't know much about comic Green Lantern, and the movie was beyond dull, but I liked the personality of GL in the movie. I got the impression that it wasn't Hal Jordany at ALL, but it didn't matter. An average joe gets powers disposed upon him and while he does heroically take up the mantle and use them to save people, he also uses them to show off a little, which we can all relate to! Same with Spider-Man, he gets these incredible powers and what is the first thing he does? He enters into a wrestling competition to make extra cash. It's such a human response.

XMFC changed the way many, many people view Charles and made him way more likeable, which you should be super pleased about. He will still be a major character in a sequel, and I still think he has a good chance at leading the plot, but I think Erik has a better chance. These films work because of them, together. So I'm not at all worried about how much shared screen time they'll have.

I'm not keen on the Kennedy assassination idea though. To me it's a little distasteful, and I'm not even American. Also the rationale I've heard for Magneto doing it seems pretty petty to me.

[Loganbabe]

And though they were working together, I always had a sense that Charles was really in charge with Erik as his right hand man - Charles just seems to automatically act as a leader around everyone else.
Charles was in charge throughout the movie; he was the CIA's contact, he was the one training all the mutants, including Erik, he was the one who took the initiative to make the Russians attack their own ship thus stopping the American attack thus stopping the war. Why does the general audience have the idea that it was Erik in charge all the time, then, if we know that without Charles Erik would never raise that submarine, he would never improve his powers, why, he would probably be dead at the bottom of the ocean?

I think that a good explanation is that Erik's powers are completely visual. What you see is what you get - we see Erik lifting the submarine, therefore he was the one doing it on his own, and a lot of people are so in awe watching the scene that they forget that Charles was there too, all the time helping just by projecting inside Erik's head, making him reach the famous balance between serenety and rage.

Telepathy is incredibly difficult to show in movies; people will think it's oh so easy to be a telepath, just put one finger to the temple and voilá. Hence the problem I have with Charles' lack of development in FC - there should have been one or two scenes showing how telepathy can be incredibly dangerous and a very complicated power. How it was not just a funny game to Charles, how much it affected him and how much it could affect the people around him. I agree that there was no need to give him a dark, tragic persona full of issues - the fact that he had fun with his power flirting with the girls was amazing and showed how much control he had over it. The problem is that we never see him achieving that control in the movie, therefore he sometimes looked like a character who was too futile when compared to Erik, therefore a great part of the audience had difficulties in accepting that a "futile" character was, indeed, in charge.

I'll never accept the lazy excuse that they cut the telepathic battle because it looked too much like Inception. To me it just showed an apalling disinterest in the character. Imagine Vaughn saying "I had to cut the Argentinian bar scene with Erik because it looked too much like Inglorious Basterds". The telepathic battle would have been a pivotal moment to Charles, showing how powerful he was and how far could he go - even dangerously so - and it would have been a visual moment, so important to a non-visual power like telepathy.

As to why I think that telepathy is fascinating because it's so mysterious and complicated and dangerous, please read this amazing fanfiction (don't worry, no slash) http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7553474/1/Petals_On_a_Wet_Black_Bough
It's just one chapter so far but it captures Charles and Erik so brillianty and their powers and their differences and their friendship, I wish we could see a movie based on it.

[Mrs Vimes]

XMFC changed the way many, many people view Charles

Definitely true for me - I thought he was one of the nicest surprises about the film. I love Patrick Stewart to death and love his presence in the original trilogy, but older Charles to me was more like an archetype of an old wise mentor than an actual person - not necessarily a bad thing but it just never occurred to me to think of him as an actual human (well, mutant :cwink:) being with feelings and stuff. And of course First Class still paints its major characters with fairly broad strokes - nuanced psychology is not really a feature of comic book movies nor does it suit them - but it humanised both Charles and Erik a great deal, to the point where I actually have trouble thinking of them in other terms than their birth names. As for Raven/Mystique, I don't even know how to relate her character here to the near-mute henchwoman in the original trilogy, it's just such a huge gap.

Loganbabe, I agree that the telepathy is very hard to portray onscreen. But since no one here has actually seen the telepathic battle that was cut, there's no telling whether or not it was any good, or even what it actually looked like - I kinda have trouble imagining it myself. And the thing about Erik's power, in comparison, is that it's not just visual, but physical too. Whereas a telepathic battle, even when it's visually portrayed, still takes place in a mind and as such is still hard to translate into something an average person can really understand.

Besides, in terms of "Charles'-powers-are-scary", I can't see how anything can compare to X2 where he first nearly kills the entire mutant population and then the entire human population with his mind.

And I think that one of the reasons the film doesn't convey the danger of telepathy goes back to Charles' deep and basic decency and good-natured personality and the air of harmlessness - he never uses his powers for dark purposes so they never seem dangerous. So for instance his use of telepathy on a girl in a bar never feels creepy, even though, if you think of how telepathy/mind control could be potentially used in this situation, you immediately go into a super-creepy territory. And of course a character who uses his power without reservations or much ethical considerations (like Erik) is going to come off "stronger" compared to a character who doesn't use his powers that way.

[Nerial]

Definitely true for me - I thought he was one of the nicest surprises about the film. I love Patrick Stewart to death and love his presence in the original trilogy, but older Charles to me was more like an archetype of an old wise mentor than an actual person - not necessarily a bad thing but it just never occurred to me to think of him as an actual human (well, mutant :cwink:) being with feelings and stuff. And of course First Class still paints its major characters with fairly broad strokes - nuanced psychology is not really a feature of comic book movies nor does it suit them - but it humanised both Charles and Erik a great deal, to the point where I actually have trouble thinking of them in other terms than their birth names. As for Raven/Mystique, I don't even know how to relate her character here to the near-mute henchwoman in the original trilogy, it's just such a huge gap.

Loganbabe, I agree that the telepathy is very hard to portray onscreen. But since no one here has actually seen the telepathic battle that was cut, there's no telling whether or not it was any good, or even what it actually looked like - I kinda have trouble imagining it myself. And the thing about Erik's power, in comparison, is that it's not just visual, but physical too. Whereas a telepathic battle, even when it's visually portrayed, still takes place in a mind and as such is still hard to translate into something an average person can really understand.

Besides, in terms of "Charles'-powers-are-scary", I can't see how anything can compare to X2 where he first nearly kills the entire mutant population and then the entire human population with his mind.

And I think that one of the reasons the film doesn't convey the danger of telepathy goes back to Charles' deep and basic decency and good-natured personality and the air of harmlessness - he never uses his powers for dark purposes so they never seem dangerous. So for instance his use of telepathy on a girl in a bar never feels creepy, even though, if you think of how telepathy/mind control could be potentially used in this situation, you immediately go into a super-creepy territory. And of course a character who uses his power without reservations or much ethical considerations (like Erik) is going to come off "stronger" compared to a character who doesn't use his powers that way.

Totally agree. One reason Erik's powers are shown so powerfully throughout the movie is because he has few, if any, reservations about using them.

If Charles wanted to, he could have mind-warped Erik, Moira, the CIA, and anyone else he wished with the exception of Emma and maybe some difficulties with a couple mutants like Shaw (as seen in the movie--some people are harder to control mentally than others).

I love how Charles uses his power to get what he wants...to an extent, but never crosses that moral boundary. Yes, he uses it to pick up girls, but never forces a girl to be with him even though he could and she'd never know the difference. "The air of harmlessness"--that's a great line, Mrs. Vimes. That's exactly how it feels. Not because he couldn't do serious harm but because it's not in his nature.

[Nerial]

As to why I think that telepathy is fascinating because it's so mysterious and complicated and dangerous, please read this amazing fanfiction (don't worry, no slash) http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7553474/1/Petals_On_a_Wet_Black_Bough
It's just one chapter so far but it captures Charles and Erik so brillianty and their powers and their differences and their friendship, I wish we could see a movie based on it.

Okay, I did try to read it, but it's just not for me. I rip apart published stories, so fan fics I really have a hard time with (which is sad because I've written them myself). But I understand what you're getting at.

I still don't think the 'developing' telepathy needs to be in the movies. Maybe in a prequel-prequel. :woot:

[Loganbabe]

James McAvoy talks Second Class, and what an insightful little interview! :awesome: http://io9.com/5860955/

I posted the whole thing at the McAvoy thread. Yeah, fight for Charles, James! :woot:

[Angamb]

thanks!!

he said he is talking with Matthew about the sequel, and that Matthew has offered his idea about Charles in the sequel to Fox....

that means Matthew is already on board, right????

[marvelrobbins]

James Mcavoy won't be playing the complete Iconic Xavier till third and final part of trilogy.The sequel Is chance to really have Xavier deal with losing use of legs.Hopefully
see how he loses his hair.We have chance for really good arc for James to play In sequel.

My hope Is with Battlestar Galactica coming up Bryan Singer Is still Involved as producer,and able to help devolp the story.Obvisously they have a story In place for Simon Kinberg to work on first draft.And I hope Matthew Vaughn doesn't listen to those who want to bring In tons of new characters.

[marvelrobbins]

thanks!!

he said he is talking with Matthew about the sequel, and that Matthew has offered his idea about Charles in the sequel to Fox....

that means Matthew is already on board, right????

I think we can pretty much guess that Matthew Vaughn Is going to direct again.Lauren Shuller Donner pretty much said they want Matthew to direct.Matthew was probally Involved with devolping the story for sequel that Kinberg Is now writing.I am hoping Bryan SInger Is a producer again and was also Involved In devolping the story.My only concern with Matthew doing sequel without Bryan Is Matthew often said different things on films contunity based on who he was talking to at the time.I have concerns on
how he would handle contunity without Bryan around.I want as much as possable to view First Class and sequels with X-Men,and X2.

[Nerial]

James McAvoy talks Second Class, and what an insightful little interview! :awesome: http://io9.com/5860955/

I posted the whole thing at the McAvoy thread. Yeah, fight for Charles, James! :woot:

Where do you find this stuff, Loganbade??? Good catch!

I agree whole-heartedly with James; everything he said was freakin' spot on. Charles has to deal with losing his best friend and being disabled, and those are no little things. (he also has to deal with losing his "sister" and with the fact--like it or not--Erik was right about how the humans reacted to them. That's a low-blow right there).

Erik's story has been told, and I loved it. I want to see more of Erik; I think that he needs to get darker and more ruthless, but Charles' character is still waiting to be developed into "Professor X." That hasn't happened yet, and that's what I'm looking forward to for the next film...minus the bald head. :woot: I don't know if James can pull of a "Patrick Stewart," but we shall see.

[Loganbabe]

Where do you find this stuff, Loganbade??? Good catch!
Twitter. :woot:

I have this feeling that they'll keep Charles with his hair for the sequel. In the end it didn't seem to bother people much, they understood he was a younger version of the character. If there's a third film, that's when he'll go bald.

At least that's what I hope for. :oldrazz:

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

James McAvoy talks Second Class, and what an insightful little interview! :awesome: http://io9.com/5860955/

I posted the whole thing at the McAvoy thread. Yeah, fight for Charles, James! :woot:

Thats a great interview, and he echoes my feelings about not wanting the Xavier from the first 3 movies just yet, he has a lot to deal with after FC, so lets see him deal with it, and then on top of that we get a world-wide crisis as well for him and the X-Men or even Magneto to deal with, cant wait to hear more and glad it seems that everyone is back on board for the sequel.

[Mrs Vimes]

I have this feeling that they'll keep Charles with his hair for the sequel. In the end it didn't seem to bother people much, they understood he was a younger version of the character. If there's a third film, that's when he'll go bald.

At least that's what I hope for. :oldrazz:

Same here :woot: Of course losing his hair would be another big blow to Charles' ego, but hey I'm shallow and I want to see him look pretty until the end of the third movie (like, the last shot) ;)

It's lovely that James seems to really care about his character.

At the same time, I also don't want Erik from now on to just be the same character from the original trilogy either, because that would be boring as well.

[Nerial]

Same here :woot: Of course losing his hair would be another big blow to Charles' ego, but hey I'm shallow and I want to see him look pretty until the end of the third movie (like, the last shot) ;)

It's lovely that James seems to really care about his character.

At the same time, I also don't want Erik from now on to just be the same character from the original trilogy either, because that would be boring as well.

Yes, I hate to be all super-girly, but I don't want him bald, either! At least, not until the very last second of the last movie!

Of course, Patrick Stewart is a very fine bald man; maybe James will be, too! :woot:

[Quetzal]

Wow I am late on this but, YES!!!!!!!!! Sequel.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I like the fact that all the talk from McAvoy so far has been the fact that they DONT want to go to formula just yet. I say keep Charles and Erik like they were in the first movie, or at least at the end.

I wouldnt even mind seeing a bit of resentment from Charles towards Erik at first because of his role in paralysing him, but when he sees how much Erik is effected by finding out what he did he realises that despite their differences they are still friends.

I really hope Charles and Erik have to team up again in this movie to face a bigger threat, someone like Sinister, Proteus or Apocalypse. I mean IMO they need to go big to top Shaw who was one of if not THE most threatening villain of the series so far.

[Electrix]

More from McAvoy:


"We have talked a little bit [about a second film]," McAvoy admits. "Michael and I are very much up for doing it and have some good ideas. The director is exceptional and we just need to write the script then. We'll all sit down, maybe Michael, I, the director and maybe Simon Kinberg who was hired to write the script and I think did some consulting on the last one. He's a very clever guy. If we could get a hold of those two with me and Michael we could get things sorted out quickly. It's whether they might do that or write a script behind closed doors. I dunno."

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/awards-campaign/posts/arthur-christmas-james-mcavoy-says-he-and-michael-fassbender-are-keen-to-do-an-x-men-first-class-sequel

[Nerial]

More from McAvoy:




http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/awards-campaign/posts/arthur-christmas-james-mcavoy-says-he-and-michael-fassbender-are-keen-to-do-an-x-men-first-class-sequel

Very cool find, Electrix--thanks! I really hope that McAvoy and Fassbender are a part of the writing process. They seem to know their characters very well and are the heart of the first movie.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

More from McAvoy:




http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/awards-campaign/posts/arthur-christmas-james-mcavoy-says-he-and-michael-fassbender-are-keen-to-do-an-x-men-first-class-sequel

Yeah, I hope they have a lot of input into were their characters go as they seem to have good ideas from what I have heard.

[Angamb]

so if we take James words literally, Matthew Vaughn is already on board, right?

that would be great, if he is having an imput on the script and more...

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Yeah, thats what made me most happy about the interview, hearing Vaughn and Fassbender are not only considering returning but are EXCITED about it, makes me think this sequel will be something special if this all gets confirmed.

[RachelDawes]

so if we take James words literally, Matthew Vaughn is already on board, right?

that would be great, if he is having an imput on the script and more...

That was the main thing I took from the interview. :woot: I hope that's the case because that would put a lot of my fears to rest.

[blueserenity]

TWENTIETH Century Fox has officially confirmed plans for sequels to its summer hits X-Men: First Class and Rise of The Planet of The Apes.
Tom Rothman, co-chairman and chief executive of Fox Filmed Entertainment, says they hope to get Matthew Vaughn back for another X-Men instalment and Rupert Wyatt to continue the Apes storyline.
"Both of them were really great scripts and so we have to be sure to get great scripts again," Rothman told ComingSoon (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=84667) at the Gotham Independent Film Awards. "We're working hard on the scripts for both of them, but we have every hope of moving forward with them."
Rothman's public statement signals the studio's determination to build on the critical success of both films.


Sequel is officially OFFICIAL, folks.

http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2011/11/fox-wants-matthew-vaughn-to-di.html

[RachelDawes]

Squee!!! :applaud

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Sequel is officially OFFICIAL, folks.

http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2011/11/fox-wants-matthew-vaughn-to-di.html

Delighted with this news, FC was easily the best Blockbuster this year, possibly even film of the year for me, so to be having a sequel actually confirmed makes me beyond happy. If they can improve on FC, we will have something special on our hands.

[Loganbabe]

Yes! :awesome::up:
Or, even better, grooooooooooovy!!!!!!!!! :D :cool:

[Downhere]

With The Wolverine seeming to be delayed yet again, maybe they will want the First Class sequel to come out before another Wolverine. That would be good I would think.

[Nerial]

That is beyond awesome! Yay--sequel! :grin:

[Angamb]

With The Wolverine seeming to be delayed yet again, maybe they will want the First Class sequel to come out before another Wolverine. That would be good I would think.



that would be PERFECT! Lol

:woot:

[xii22_loop]

honestly, if Tom Rothman is behind putting Simon Kinberg on as a writer i will *****ING PUKE.

can you believe TOM ROTHMAN is getting some sort of Industry Tribute award. unbelievable! he's been responsible with so many situations with studio interference that ends up degrading films quality.
http://www.ifp.org/press/tom-rothman-chairman-ceo-of-fox-filmed-entertainment-to-receive-gotham-award-industry-tribute/

[Cherry]

honestly, if Tom Rothman is behind putting Simon Kinberg on as a writer i will *****ING PUKE.

can you believe TOM ROTHMAN is getting some sort of Industry Tribute award. unbelievable! he's been responsible with so many situations with studio interference that ends up degrading films quality.
http://www.ifp.org/press/tom-rothman-chairman-ceo-of-fox-filmed-entertainment-to-receive-gotham-award-industry-tribute/

Yep, that's pretty disgusting. What's that about failing upwards in Hollywood? *cough, cough* :doh:

[mclay18]

Well, since Vaughn is directing again -- expect him and Jane Goldman to do rewrites before the movie gets greenlit.

[marvelrobbins]

He and jane Goldman will probally do rewrites but let's remember too Kinberg was key
member of first Class team as producer and did uncredited polishing of the script.

[RachelDawes]

Kinberg wrote Sherlock Holmes which is one of my favorite movies so I'm hoping he'll bring some of that quality to XFC2.

[marvelrobbins]

Very true.I enjoyed his written mr and mrs smith as well.So he has done more than The Last Stand.Which blame has to be In large part of studio.

[psylockolussus]

I am not happy that Simon Kinberg is writing.

None of the films he wrote were great and he ruined X3.

The screenwriters of X-Men: First Class should rewrite his script after he's done with it.

[merbass]

Rewrite is gonna happen for sure.

X3 was doom from the start ! Any writer or director will fail that movie

[The Original Bamfer]

Kinberg may write his draft, but as was the case in First Class, several hands will probably leave their mark (and make drastic changes.) Vaughn and Singer know what they're doing; if they weren't involved, I'd be very concerned.

[josh8]

I'm thinking that they just needed to hire a WGA certified writer in order to get the ball rolling. I have no doubt that Kinberg is working off of ideas from Singer and Vaughn and eventually Vaughn will just re-write the whole thing like he usually does. He never directs a movie where he doesn't have a heavy hand in the screenplay.

[Loganbabe]

'X-Men: First Class' Sequel Will Be Magneto-Heavy, Screenwriter Says (http://splashpage.mtv.com/2012/02/16/x-men-first-class-sequel-simon-kinberg-interview/)

Posted 3 hours ago by Kara Warner (http://splashpage.mtv.com/author/karawarner/) in Marvel (http://splashpage.mtv.com/category/marvel/), News (http://splashpage.mtv.com/category/news/)


If I had my way, we "X-Men: First Class (http://www.mtv.com/movies/movie/414796/moviemain.jhtml)" fans would be getting a sequel this summer. Or this week, for that matter. Unfortunately I don't get my way and we're going to have to wait awhile for a few of the most in-demand actors in the business right now to get some free time to suit-up again. Also there is the matter of needing a script from which to work.
MTV News recently caught up with the sequel's screenwriter Simon Kinberg (http://splashpage.mtv.com/2011/11/04/x-men-first-class-sequel-sherlock-holmes/) at the premiere of his latest film, "This Means War," where we discussed his plans for Magneto, Xavier and the rest.


"I don’t know what the title is going to be but certainly I’m working on the sequel to 'X-Men: First Class' right now," Kinberg said. "I’m going to be writing and producing it, I’m starting now, with Matthew Vaughn directing."
When asked about what he enjoys most about incorporating so many characters into the story, Kinberg first emphasized his fanboy-ness, along with excitement to further explore the many layers of Magneto and Charles Xavier.

"I’m a huge X-Men fan. I grew up loving the comic books and it was really exciting to be able to do the origin story of Xavier and Magneto, and getting those two actors, [James] McAvoy and [Michael] Fassbender, were really amazing," he said. "So being able to explore those characters with actors of that quality will be exciting a second time around, and doing some things unexpected with those characters, which is the plan."
Kinberg went on to say that while they're still in the early stages of story-planning, the second film will likely involve a lot more Magneto.
"That’s what was so cool about the first one and what we want to continue," Kinberg said of exploring the supervillain's tortured beginnings. "Magneto becomes the villain ultimately of the franchise but he’s a much more complicated character as a young man. He’s someone you sympathize with, you care about you root for even though might not necessarily agree with his methods, you understand his philosophy."
So with the sequel will Magneto still be bridging the gap between good and bad or will he be a full-on villain?
"We’re still figuring that out. I think the truth is ultimately that because Michael is such an interesting actor, he’ll never be full-on anything. He’ll have a villainous side and he’ll have a sympathetic human side you’ll be able to relate but you’ll also be afraid of him. He becomes Magneto, he says 'Call me Magneto' at the end of the first movie."

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2012/02/16/x-men-first-class-sequel-simon-kinberg-interview/

That's it, I officially hate the sequel right now. :cmad:
I'm tired of Magneto. Tired. Tired. Tired. And it's all starting again - as with Vaughn, not even a mention of Charles or the story focusing on him. And people come here to say that Charles didn't get the shaft in First Class. Lol, yeah right. And it'll happen again in Second Class. I really didn't have much hope that they would give Charles' story more focus and development.

I don't sympathize with Magneto. I hate this assumption that every freaking X-Men fan must sympathize with him and understand his "philosophy". And how about Xavier's philosophy? When are we going to get some of this? And why everybody involved in this franchise keeps singling Fassbender out as if McAvoy isn't an "interesting" actor as well, as if he didn't bring anything new to FC?

I hate my life. :wall:

[josh8]

Like I said earlier, I'm not worried about Kinberg because Vaughn will just re-write the script, but I have a question.

I didn't listen to the X3 commentary, but was Kinberg the one that obviously knew nothing about the X-Men history (besides Ratner, of course) or was it the other writer?

[Electrix]

I don't blame Kinberg that much for X3. Fox basically gave them a list of all the plot points, and they just had to write the script. X3 may have been better with different writers, but it would have had the same beats and story. Plus Ratner changed stuff around when he joined.

Kinberg wrote Sherlock Holmes, which was well received, and we'll have to wait to see how good his Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter is. Vaughn won't shoot a movie he isn't happy with, and so far he's had a good track record at making good movies.

[chamber-music]

I won't be surprised if Vaughn brings Jane Goldman back to rewrite Kinbergs draft.

I hope Havok and Banshee characters are expanded more in the sequal like Ice-Man was in the Singer X-Men movies.

[marvelrobbins]

Kinberg and Zack Penn grew up reading X-Men comics.It was Brett Ratner who knew nothing about the X-Men and claimed he was true to comics and both X-Men and X2.And once he even claimed he saved the franchise.

As I say to people Kinberg was a key part of first Class team with Bryan Singer,Matthew Vaughn,and Jane Goldman.He did uncredited polishing of First Class script.

I am sure he has talked to both SInger and Vaughn about the story and their ideas for sequel.After Kinberg Is done I am sure Vaughn and Goldman will rewrite the script.

A lot of problems with The Last Stand was Fox.Let's give the first Class team some faith for the sequel.

[RachelDawes]

I didn't care much about Havok and Banshee in XFC so it means little to me if they're more developed in the sequel. The amount of screentime they got in XFC was fine, IMO.

I'm not thrilled about a Magneto-centric sequel, either, but as others have stated, Goldman and Vaughn will be rewriting the script and McAvoy will surely be consulted about his character. I'll worry later.

[blueserenity]

My stomach sank when I read the news. Magneto is absolutely my favorite character of the series, but I'd WAAAY rather see a Charles-centric sequel. Erik had his trials and tribulations in First Class. Charles' life was just destroyed in the most severe emotional and physical ways. To me the character to focus on is obvious, but action fanboys like Kinberg don't understand. I really don't see how they could have MORE Magneto in a sequel.

Ugh, I dunno. I can only hope that Vaughn doesn't have as much of a hardon for Magneto as Kinberg does, or that JM and MF actually do get in at the ground level and make some strong suggestions. Both actors have made clear that they believe the sequel should focus on Charles and I'd venture that most fans are on the same page.

[josh8]

Kinberg and Zack Penn grew up reading X-Men comics.It was Brett Ratner who knew nothing about the X-Men and claimed he was true to comics and both X-Men and X2.And once he even claimed he saved the franchise.

I'm sure that's true. It's just that I recalled reading that, based on the commentary, one of the writers was obviously lying in interviews about how much he knew about X-Men history.

[marvelrobbins]

Penn helped devolp the script for X2.And Kinberg did produce and do uncredited script work on First Class.So both have been Involved In decent X-Men films.But,If one of them were lying I suspect It was Penn.

[Loganbabe]

Ugh, I dunno. I can only hope that Vaughn doesn't have as much of a hardon for Magneto as Kinberg does, or that JM and MF actually do get in at the ground level and make some strong suggestions. Both actors have made clear that they believe the sequel should focus on Charles and I'd venture that most fans are on the same page.
Well, Vaughn only had eyes for Magneto in the first film and I don't think he'll change his views any time soon. Even though James said Vaughn had some great ideas for Charles...eh, ideas are just ideas. They had this great idea of giving Charles a big action scene with the telepathic battle, and then nothing.

And I don't think Fassbender will be all modest and say "oh no, please don't focus on Magneto, it's Charles story now!" He said that because he was on a publicity round and he would've sounded arrogant saying that he wanted the sequel to keep the focus on Magneto. He wants to be a star, so it won't worry him one bit a Magneto-centric sequel.

That leaves James to fight for Charles...but James didn't sound too optmist in some interviews. He knows how big studios work. He knows he plays a difficult character, one that's not suited for action/fantasy movies. I think that's he's hopeful that Charles will get an interesting arc in the sequel; but no matter what, he'll do his best.

I'll be completely heartbroken if they skip Charles' struggles and the consequences of his paralysis, but to be honest after this interview I'm really pessimist. :csad:

[blueserenity]

Well, Vaughn only had eyes for Magneto in the first film and I don't think he'll change his views any time soon. Even though James said Vaughn had some great ideas for Charles...eh, ideas are just ideas. They had this great idea of giving Charles a big action scene with the telepathic battle, and then nothing.

And I don't think Fassbender will be all modest and say "oh no, please don't focus on Magneto, it's Charles story now!" He said that because he was on a publicity round and he would've sounded arrogant saying that he wanted the sequel to keep the focus on Magneto. He wants to be a star, so it won't worry him one bit a Magneto-centric sequel.

That leaves James to fight for Charles...but James didn't sound too optmist in some interviews. He knows how big studios work. He knows he plays a difficult character, one that's not suited for action/fantasy movies. I think that's he's hopeful that Charles will get an interesting arc in the sequel; but no matter what, he'll do his best.

I'll be completely heartbroken if they skip Charles' struggles and the consequences of his paralysis, but to be honest after this interview I'm really pessimist. :csad:

First of all I don't think it's fair to go at that angle for Fassbender. He stands out as an actor because he's willing to take risks and stand back when he needs to. I really get the impression he wants what's best for the characters and story, not for his publicity. I really don't see him as fame-hungry. A family friend of mine actually grew up with him (and remains close with his family) and when I told him I was worried Fassbender's newfound rush to stardom going to his head he was adamant that Fassbender is absolutely "one of the most down-to-earth, humble people you'll ever meet". I think it's too cynical to assume he's going to suddenly change his tune about Charles. I'm sure he's going back to the movie for the fun and because of the contract. Despite what a brilliant actor he is I'm sure there are no grand illusions that his performance as Magneto will net him an Oscar.

Second of all, McAvoy sounded neither optimistic nor pessimistic about Charles' role in the sequel. All of his quotes on the character have been in text, not in video or sound bites, so they come off as pretty neutral. Any "I hope"s or "maybe"s he may have used (I don't remember any of his quotes verbatim) is less pessimistic and more him not wanting to step on any toes or make statements when nothing is clear. But I will say that some recent quote of his indicated he had really liked what Vaughn had pitched to FOX. I don't think he was lying, if he was it would have been easier to leave the comment out entirely.

The telepathic battle was cut because apparently it followed Inception's hotel fight too closely. Also it would have added a tidy sum to the film's already-way-over budget. In terms of the story, as muuuch as I would have loved to have seen it, it is really the only action event that doesn't move the plot forward. And I think they'll probably use it in a sequel.

Next, I wouldn't worry too much about how big studios work and worry more about how Vaughn works. It took months to announce a sequel officially, and it wasn't till something like 4 months later that Vaughn was announced to be attached to it. My guess is that they were in negotiations with him the whole darn time. FOX likes to keep fingers in all the pies but I imagine Vaughn wanted to bargain to keep them as far away from major story decisions as possible.

Aaaand finally. This goes against my previous post when I was worked up after just having red the news, but I don't think we should be pessimistic about this. It's still easily another year, maybe two, until filming. A quick look around tells me EVERYONE from fanboys to casual moviegoers think the sequel should be about Charles. And even if it remains largely about Magneto, there's no way they can just gloss over what happened to Charles. And I still wouldn't underestimate the power that James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender's suggestions could have. Charles was a pretty boring character until McAvoy stepped in with some suggestions, Vaughn has said this himself. If they want a character story, there is just no way that can ignore what's happened.

Remember when we all freaked out that Simon Kinberg was behind the script? That's like this. And now that we know Vaughn is directing and will probably rewrite the whole thing, there is still a healthy chance that the movie will be excellent.

So stop worrying, stop being pessimistic, and let's wait till Vaughn and Goldman rewrite the script and make announcements about the official final draft before we waste anymore energy.:word:

[Loganbabe]

First of all I don't think it's fair to go at that angle for Fassbender. He stands out as an actor because he's willing to take risks and stand back when he needs to. I really get the impression he wants what's best for the characters and story, not for his publicity. I really don't see him as fame-hungry.
I won't change my opinion on Fassbender. I understand how others would see him as just a fantastic actor and not fame-hungry at all, but it's different for me. I saw three of his films before First Class and I never thought of him as brilliant, but suddenly everybody expects that we will find him the greatest actor to ever grace the Earth. So yeah, there's a whole lot of publicity involved in this, and I don't see him standing back anytime soon. He's going for it; if the director/writers/producers tell him that Magneto will be the focus once again, I don't think he'll be sad about it.
But like I said, it's my personal opinion. I respect your POV on Fassbender, just please respect mine. :yay:

Remember when we all freaked out that Simon Kinberg was behind the script? That's like this. And now that we know Vaughn is directing and will probably rewrite the whole thing, there is still a healthy chance that the movie will be excellent.
Yeah, there's a chance. I'm not denying it. But the interview left me more on the pessimistic side. It's funny because I was incredibly optimist for FC and I always believed that the movie would turn out great, despite of what the majority of fanboys said at the time. But FC turned more into a "Magneto show" than I expected, so I'll admit that after reading what Kinberg had to say, my optmistic level is incredibly low for Second Class.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Vaughn and probably Goldman will do re-writes on the script so I wouldnt get too worried about Magneto taking all the limelight again. Charles had plenty of great scene's in FC so I'm sure the same will happen here. The best scene's were both of them together so give me more of that and i'll be fine.

[Hugebear]

I understand why fanboys want more Charles in the sequel but I have to say that if the movie is Magneto-centric, I won’t complain. I think it their call. I don’t think anybody should apologize for liking Magneto more in FC. I don’t think Fassbender deserves to get blamed for being as good as he was in FC.

[Loganbabe]

^ No one is talking of anyone being blamed for being good. It's a personal thing; James McAvoy is a better actor to me. But when you put aside things like preferences and you look at the first movie and how it was supposed to be a story of both Magneto and Charles...well it wasn't really. Magneto got more focus and therefore Fassbender got more attention. It's simple, really.

So first there was this talking that, since the first movie was about Erik transformation into Magneto, the second would be more about Charles transformation into Professor X. And part of this transformation involves his struggles dealing with his new physical condition. When you think about it, it's only fair to see Charles getting some spotlight in this series (And I'm talking about ALL the X-films); plus it's James McAvoy, man. He's a brilliant actor playing a brilliant and complex and, so far, underdeveloped character. So we get all these articles about how the second movie would give us a deeper vision into this character, and now this guy comes, gives an interview and changes everything. Is this a joke? People complain about Wolverine in the X-films; if Second Class turns out to be about Magneto, again, it'll be even worse than Wolverine. I won't watch a second movie focused on Magneto. Hope the fanboys have their fun.

[Angamb]

I hope Xavier gets more spotlight too. Its about Time.

and then, the new x-men of this prequel. They NEED development, so I hope they have some scenes during the movie where we see their personalities, have a few lines about their past or about their feelings regarding their personal lifes or current events in their present

[Mrs Vimes]

When asked about what he enjoys most about incorporating so many characters into the story, Kinberg first emphasized his fanboy-ness, along with excitement to further explore the many layers of Magneto and Charles Xavier.

"I’m a huge X-Men fan. I grew up loving the comic books and it was really exciting to be able to do the origin story of Xavier and Magneto, and getting those two actors, [James] McAvoy and [Michael] Fassbender, were really amazing," he said. "So being able to explore those characters with actors of that quality will be exciting a second time around, and doing some things unexpected with those characters, which is the plan."Well this doesn't sound like he's *only* interested in Magneto. For sure, if anyone is expecting a Charles-centric film I think they'll be disappointed because IMO it's just not likely to happen. Personally, if they keep exploring the relationship between Erik and Charles and deal at least in some way with Charles' paralysis, I'll be satisfied.

And "a lot more Magneto" doesn't necessarily mean "a lot more Magneto than in First Class" - unless he actually says so (I can't see the interview in my region).

So first there was this talking that, since the first movie was about Erik transformation into Magneto, the second would be more about Charles transformation into Professor X.

If my memory serves me right, the talking only came from the two lead actors, not the writer or director or producer or anyone who's actually in charge of making a movie. Nothing solid to build hopes on.

[Loganbabe]

And "a lot more Magneto" doesn't necessarily mean "a lot more Magneto than in First Class"
:huh:
It means "a lot more Magneto" than what, then? We only have First Class as reference.

If my memory serves me right, the talking only came from the two lead actors, not the writer or director or producer or anyone who's actually in charge of making a movie. Nothing solid to build hopes on.
An actor's opinion is, to me, as solid as anyone else's opinions. And James said he had been talking to Vaughn and he had a great idea for an arc to Charles.

[Hugebear]

I went back to read the article again and a lot more Magneto could just mean that Magneto would be back in the sequel. It could be that the writer of the article was the one who said it in her words and not a direct Kinberg quote.

[chamber-music]

Micheal Fassbender has recently met up with Simon Kinberg and talked about a few ideas as he he says in this interview from a couple days ago

dhvDfbaMfrc

[blueserenity]

:huh:
It means "a lot more Magneto" than what, then? We only have First Class as reference.


An actor's opinion is, to me, as solid as anyone else's opinions. And James said he had been talking to Vaughn and he had a great idea for an arc to Charles.

If it's as solid as anyone else's opinions, why are you so eager to dismiss Fassbender's? As I said before, he was as on board as McAvoy to make a Charles-centric movie and said so in a few interviews. I don't think that he would "fight" for a Charles-centric movie if the director and writer sat down and said "So we're making this about Magneto", but likewise I don't think James would put up a big fight to make it Charles-centric either. Both actors have contributed good ideas to the characters and genuinely seem to like each other's character as well as their own. I DO believe that they will BOTH make suggestions about Charles and have good ideas to ensure he gets a fair amount of storyline. He's gone through quite an emotional and physical trauma, there is just no way they can sidestep it.

In addition, if this movie truly is Magneto-centric in the end, his transformation will still be hugely dependent on Charles. I think the fact that they changed the comicverse to make it his fault Charles is paralyzed is bloody brilliant. He doesn't seem to know the degree of injury at the end of XMFC, and there will be some incredible character moments for both men when he finds out. This is a lifetime mistake that will haunt him for the rest of his life. If they gloss over Charles' struggles and make it seem like he's completely happy and problem free in his new circumstance, Erik's mistake will have no weight. And we need that weight for both characters.

I dunno, I just think that people need to stop freaking out about this. The movie won't be out till 2014 at the earliest! A million things could happen between now and then and stressing about it isn't doing anyone any good :P

[Mrs Vimes]

:huh:
It means "a lot more Magneto" than what, then? We only have First Class as reference.

"A lot more" could mean that we'll simply see the character a lot again, not necessarily in comparison to the first movie.

And since I can't see "a lot more Magneto" in Kinberg's direct quotes (unless he says it in the video), it could have come from the writer of the article rather than Kinberg. I'm generally wary of the writers putting on their own spin on interviews.

In addition, if this movie truly is Magneto-centric in the end, his transformation will still be hugely dependent on Charles.

Oh yeah he totally needs a ying to his yang :) Plus, the film needs to have a good guy. Magneto might be popular and not a clear-cut villain, but in the end he's not one of the good guys; he can't really be a Wolverine for this new series.

I dunno, I just think that people need to stop freaking out about this.

Amen to that.

[Loganbabe]

If it's as solid as anyone else's opinions, why are you so eager to dismiss Fassbender's? As I said before, he was as on board as McAvoy to make a Charles-centric movie and said so in a few interviews.
I'm not dismissing what he said; quite the opposite. I really believed, and I guess the actors believed too and therefore talked about it in interviews, that there were talkings about Charles being the focus next time. But this was before we, and the actors, knew that Kinberg would be writing the script. And just by reading Kinberg's interview, I'm convinced that the focus changed. Even more telling is the fact that, as we can see in the video posted above, Fassbender had a meeting with Kinberg in LA. Really interesting info; things are moving. Let's see if Fassbender still talks about Charles being the focus, next time they interview him. :o

In addition, if this movie truly is Magneto-centric in the end, his transformation will still be hugely dependent on Charles.
You know, this is exactly what I'm tired of. We already saw in First Class Charles being used so that they could tell a Magneto story. It was never about Charles' feelings or whatever. Charles was there - and the writers said it themselves - so that we, the audience, represented by Mystique, knew that we should leave him behind with all his "naivety" and follow Magneto's ideals.
Which can be an interesting POV and all, and worked for the film, even if it was not what I was expecting.

Anyway, now we have the possibility to know more about Charles; his feelings, his pain. So is it okay to see Charles being used once again so that we will feel for Magneto and his guilt trip for paralyzing his friend? I don't think so. I'm not interested in what Erik is going through, and what he feels is nowhere near as horrible as how Charles feels about the whole situation. I'm not interested in Erik's transformation, yet again. What more is there to transform anyway? I want to see Charles dealing with what happened to him, not Erik dealing with what happened to Charles - at least not from his point of view only, as in Magneto brooding (but having amazing and cool action scenes at the same time) while Charles remains in the movie background, sitting in a wheelchair at the mansion making jokes about going bald.

A million things could happen between now and then and stressing about it isn't doing anyone any good :P
Stressing about things that are out of our control is in the nature of the fan. I've seen a lot of people complaining about this in other places, like tumblr. Oh well, at least I know I'm not alone in hating the idea of Charles getting the shaft once again. :dry:

[Loganbabe]

"A lot more" could mean that we'll simply see the character a lot again, not necessarily in comparison to the first movie.
I don't know; "more" means "more" to me. Not just "a lot of".

And since I can't see "a lot more Magneto" in Kinberg's direct quotes (unless he says it in the video), it could have come from the writer of the article rather than Kinberg.
It could've happened. So if anyone here had the opportunity to watch the real interview, please share.

Oh yeah he totally needs a ying to his yang :) Plus, the film needs to have a good guy. Magneto might be popular and not a clear-cut villain, but in the end he's not one of the good guys; he can't really be a Wolverine for this new series.
I think it's quite clear that they want a new Wolverine in the form of Magneto. Just by saying this - "He’s someone you sympathize with, you care about you root for even though might not necessarily agree with his methods, you understand his philosophy" - this is so Wolverine it's not even funny.

I don't remember if we were supposed to "sympathize" with Magneto in the first X-Men movie - he was going to kill a girl to kill hundreds of people! When was that this whole process of "caring" about him started? I find it odd, really. It's like they're trying to say "look, you were wrong all this time, Magneto was never a villain!" I understand that he's a complex villain, but he's still a villain! I'm already expecting his to be an even bigger hero in Second Class and save the day; not the X-Men. Let's wait and see.

[X-Maniac]

I think the focus of the next film depends on a lot of things.

For instance, when do they want to set the story? If they want to include the Civil Rights riots of 1968, or be able to satiate those who keep screaming for the original five, that means moving the story forward many years... And that means Charles is likely to have dealt with his 'grief' over his disability.

Unfortunately for the fans, the people involved in making these films have their own favourites and preferences regarding characters. That means some get more attention than others. There does seem to be a preference for those characters who are antiheroes, who are conflicted, who have a bad past that makes their behaviour less predictable and gives them an edgy side where they walk a moral boundary. Wolverine and Magneto, basically. What that means is that other characters get pushed aside and are perceived as 'boring' - such as Cyclops and Storm.

As a fan of Storm, that annoys me because she has an interesting standpoint. She once protected people (in Africa) who worshipped her but then left them to protect people (in the USA) who hated/feared her. What drives her to do that? How does she reconcile those two things? Why does she carry on doing it?

And then there's the unfilmed movie origin for Storm, where her powers emerged when she was bullied for looking different. That was a whole new spin on her background but equally interesting because it showcased human reaction to that which is different from the norm. Sadly, Storm has been nothing but a series of special effects so far - and even the special effects became repetitive (lightning, fog).

But I also love Magneto and what they've done with him has been great, though I do prefer the animated series version with his forcefields and European accent. (If only they had added a 'thrumming' magnetic pulsing noise when he stopped the missiles, that would have pleased me so much, as they did it when he held up the jet in X2 and it does hint at the massive electromagnetic fields involved).

I'm sure McAvoy's Xavier will still get a strong role because it's the opposite viewpoints of Xavier and Magneto that are at the heart of the films. But I wouldn't imagine Charles will be the focus of the story - it's more likely (in my opinion) to show the moral dilemmas within Magneto himself, which make him change allegiances. As long as it doesn't feel too much like X2 in seeing the X-Men and Brotherhood in a shaky alliance out of desperation to stop Xavier (or whatever) causing the end of the world.

[blueserenity]

I don't know; "more" means "more" to me. Not just "a lot of".


It could've happened. So if anyone here had the opportunity to watch the real interview, please share.


I think it's quite clear that they want a new Wolverine in the form of Magneto. Just by saying this - "He’s someone you sympathize with, you care about you root for even though might not necessarily agree with his methods, you understand his philosophy" - this is so Wolverine it's not even funny.

I don't remember if we were supposed to "sympathize" with Magneto in the first X-Men movie - he was going to kill a girl to kill hundreds of people! When was that this whole process of "caring" about him started? I find it odd, really. It's like they're trying to say "look, you were wrong all this time, Magneto was never a villain!" I understand that he's a complex villain, but he's still a villain! I'm already expecting his to be an even bigger hero in Second Class and save the day; not the X-Men. Let's wait and see.

I think you might be overthinking all this Loganbabe. I know it's a fan thing but you shouldn't stress! Also I think it's trickier for you because you're clearly such a Charles fan and seem to hate Erik almost as a result :( <--sorry if that sounds mean, I'm not trying to be)

Caring about Magneto for me only began in First Class, because suddenly he was given more dimension. Reviews weren't wrong when they said that the audience feels torn about which side they would take. Erik's right about the mutant/human relationships. He's just wrong in how he goes about it. Most people don't leave the movie hating him or seeing him as the villain, it's a lot more complicated than that. And complicated characters are more interesting.

For the record I do love Charles as well, but prior to this movie I (and many others, including the director) thought he was pretty dull. His arc in the movie isn't quite as strong as Erik's. But I'm sure it will be good in this one. As I keep saying, they can't gloss over what's happened. If anything James will bring nice quirks to the character that show that he's not the (boring) saint he's destined to become, not yet.

And to play the devil's advocate a bit here, I think there will be more Magneto, in a sense. As much as we'd like to see it, they can't spend the majority of an X-Men movie following the emotional and physical trials of a recently-handicapped, recently-abandoned telepath. And even with full mobility Charles has never been much of an action hero. So yeah, Magneto is definitely going to own most/all of the action sequences. But when it comes to the emotional core of the film, that's going to be Charles. :) I don't trust Simon, not really. But I do trust Vaughn.

Also in regards to MF having visited Simon in LA but no mention of James... I've heard Michael has a flat there. It's possible he happened to be around at the time, and it'd be a lot easier than flying James all the way over. Maybe they Skyped with him and Vaughn. :P

And last I second (third?) the motion to have someone transcribe the video. I really hate that MTV blocks out all non-US people. What are we going to do, torrent the clip? :whatever:

[Mrs Vimes]

I think it's quite clear that they want a new Wolverine in the form of Magneto. Just by saying this - "He’s someone you sympathize with, you care about you root for even though might not necessarily agree with his methods, you understand his philosophy" - this is so Wolverine it's not even funny.

Yes but then he adds that Magneto will have a villainous side as well as human side. Wolverine in the movies had a darker side (at least they tried to give him one - personally I never found it very convincing apart from the start of the first movie), but not a villainous side. When all is said and done, he always ended up doing the right thing in the end and revealing a good heart under his grouchy exterior.

Erik, on the other hand, can't by any stretch be called "good-hearted", even when he's at his most sympathetic in First Class; and his methods mean that while the filmmakers can make his side compelling they cannot fully back him. Like, in First Class, they make his case against humans understandable but in the end they don't let him kill the people on the ships (which is what would have happened if the filmmakers thought that they actually really deserved to die).

And while I don't want to see Erik as a black-and-white villain, lord forbid he's made warm and fuzzy.

I don't remember if we were supposed to "sympathize" with Magneto in the first X-Men movie - he was going to kill a girl to kill hundreds of people! When was that this whole process of "caring" about him started? I find it odd, really. It's like they're trying to say "look, you were wrong all this time, Magneto was never a villain!"

Kinberg does say that Magneto ultimately becomes the villain of the franchise, when he's talking about Magneto being sympathetic he's talking about him as a younger man. Yes he ends up doing terrible things in the original trilogy but he hasn't done them *yet* in this current take on the series and I don't think it's quite fair to superimpose his future actions onto his younger version. And at the same time, while he might be portrayed more sympathetically in his earlier days it doesn't mean that the crimes he commits as an older person in the original trilogy are magically wiped off. In many ways he and Charles are different people to what they are as older men and I kinda see them as almost separate characters.

[demitri_vampiro]

so 5th x-men movie will have magneto as a villain, again. wow, if i didn't know any better i would say he was the only villain the x-men have.

[X-Maniac]

so 5th x-men movie will have magneto as a villain, again. wow, if i didn't know any better i would say he was the only villain the x-men have.

Who said that?

[akfj]

so 5th x-men movie will have magneto as a villain, again. wow, if i didn't know any better i would say he was the only villain the x-men have.

The main villains of X2 and First Class were Stryker and Sebastian Shaw, respectively. I'm sure they could throw another villain into the mix for this one. No one knows...

[demitri_vampiro]

yes, but magneto had a big role in them as well. its like they cant make a movie without magneto.

[RachelDawes]

yes, but magneto had a big role in them as well. its like they cant make a movie without magneto.

Seeing as how XFC was about the origin of the X-Men and it's a well-known fact that Erik and Charles were friends in their youth, it's not as though Magneto could have just been left out.

[Loganbabe]

Just by seeing the awful reviews to "This Means War" makes me fear ten times more for the sequel. I can already picture Fassbender wearing a tuxedo, with "Magnettes" swooning after him, lots of action scenes and sexist jokes. And explosions. And car races. Oh dear... :doh:

Okay, maybe not exactly like this. But I can't see this guy writing about a character dealing with painful issues. Maybe he'll give Charles one or two "looking sad" scenes and that will do. And he'll concentrate in the "cool" part of the story, like he said in the interview. Paraplegic professors ain't cool, bro. :o

[blueserenity]

Just by seeing the awful reviews to "This Means War" makes me fear ten times more for the sequel. I can already picture Fassbender wearing a tuxedo, with "Magnettes" swooning after him, lots of action scenes and sexist jokes. And explosions. And car races. Oh dear... :doh:

Okay, maybe not exactly like this. But I can't see this guy writing about a character dealing with painful issues. Maybe he'll give Charles one or two "looking sad" scenes and that will do. And he'll concentrate in the "cool" part of the story, like he said in the interview. Paraplegic professors ain't cool, bro. :o

I'm not sure why you want to believe in all these bad things so badly especially this early in the game. You keep coming back to Simon Kinberg but you're forgetting that MATTHEW VAUGHN is the director here and rewrote the entire script when he made XMFC. We have no reference point for what that script was before he got his hands on it but if it's anything like the wretched (and unintentionally hilarious) Magneto Origins script that was leaked, Vaughn saved the day. Seriously, if you think Charles might get shafted in the XMFC sequel, it will never be as bad as the character he was in Magneto Origins (beating up thugs with his bare hands and running away laughing, quoting the bible at every opportunity, oh and telepathically commanding an army of deer to cause a series of enemy car crashes and no I am not making this up).

Remember how skeptical everyone was about XMFC, even after the trailers came out? Personally I *WANTED* it to fail, right up to the coming soons in the theatre. And it ended up becoming a movie I and so many people loved so much that we're STILL talking about it 8 months later.

So chin up! I don't get the fan reaction of IMMEDIATE DISLIKE!!! THEY ARE GOING TO FRIG THIS UP SOOO BADLY AHHH!! It's kind of pointless until they release real details of the film.

[Loganbabe]

My main worry right now is Kinberg. I understand back then Vaughn kind of throwing away the Magneto script and bringing his own team of writers with him. That meant a lot to me - it was the first indication that it was all new and fresh and exciting. And I think that the script is the most important part of any film. You can have the best actors in the universe, zillions of dollars, a wonderful director, but it won't mean anything if the script isn't good. I had faith in the script back then because James McAvoy was the first actor cast, and I know James modus operandi as an actor - he decides to play a role based on the script, first and foremost.

I really can't see Vaughn throwing a Kinberg script on the trash can and rewriting everything. Things changed now - Fox saw the potential, but they still want more. More money of course. It all makes sense - Kinberg focusing on the character who can do more cool action scenes and on the actor who's supposed to be the hot new guy in town and on the character the fanboys (including himself and Vaughn) are crazy about.

Of course I know that Vaughn will give his input. But we all know how Vaughn is certainly much more interested in Magneto anyway, so it's not like he'll be fazed or disgusted by the perspective of putting Magneto at the center of the action yet again. James has a contract and he can't do anything about it; maybe just try and give his opinion about how to do this and that with the character, but he can't change the script nor he can not do the film.

The objective of this forum is to let fans give opinions about stuff they care about, so nothing is pointless really. Sometimes I see things being discussed here that are pointless (at least to me), but not to the people discussing it. Charles Xavier being hypothetically shafted in the sequel is quite relevant to me, therefore I feel like talking about it.

[marvelrobbins]

People are kinda tryiny to rewrite history.When Bryan Singer came on he started over fresh.The writers guild gave the Magneto writer story credit since some elements were similar to the Magneto script he never read.

When Matthew Vaughn came up he threwout the draft written by the Thor writers keepinng the characters choosen by Singer(with exception of dropping sunspot) keeping
Singer's story and using first draft as guide but bring his take on the story Singer devoleped.The Magneto script had no real bearing on what they were doing.

The writing credits for First Class should have been story by SInger and Jamie Moss(the writer who first worked with Singer) and screenplay by Vaughn and Jane Goldman.


Now as I keep mentioning Simon Kinberg was key to first Class.It was he who first brought the genesis of doing first Class.It was him who suggested to Bryan Singer using the Hellfire club as villains In his story.It was he who first came up with idea of Matthew Vaughn as director after Singer had to move over as producer.It Is known he did unredited polish on the first Class script.My suspecion Is he helped make changes after Vaughn saw Inception and decided to scrap the Xavier-Emma Frost Telephatic battle feeling It was too similar to Inception.

[blueserenity]

My main worry right now is Kinberg. I understand back then Vaughn kind of throwing away the Magneto script and bringing his own team of writers with him. That meant a lot to me - it was the first indication that it was all new and fresh and exciting. And I think that the script is the most important part of any film. You can have the best actors in the universe, zillions of dollars, a wonderful director, but it won't mean anything if the script isn't good. I had faith in the script back then because James McAvoy was the first actor cast, and I know James modus operandi as an actor - he decides to play a role based on the script, first and foremost.

I really can't see Vaughn throwing a Kinberg script on the trash can and rewriting everything. Things changed now - Fox saw the potential, but they still want more. More money of course. It all makes sense - Kinberg focusing on the character who can do more cool action scenes and on the actor who's supposed to be the hot new guy in town and on the character the fanboys (including himself and Vaughn) are crazy about.

Of course I know that Vaughn will give his input. But we all know how Vaughn is certainly much more interested in Magneto anyway, so it's not like he'll be fazed or disgusted by the perspective of putting Magneto at the center of the action yet again. James has a contract and he can't do anything about it; maybe just try and give his opinion about how to do this and that with the character, but he can't change the script nor he can not do the film.

The objective of this forum is to let fans give opinions about stuff they care about, so nothing is pointless really. Sometimes I see things being discussed here that are pointless (at least to me), but not to the people discussing it. Charles Xavier being hypothetically shafted in the sequel is quite relevant to me, therefore I feel like talking about it.

Bah, whatever, to be perfectly frank I'm getting a little exhausted by your posts. Discussion is great but you seem to be set on glorifying James McAvoy/Charles and vilifying every aspect and person involved in the sequel who isn't. It's boring and it makes discussion with you very difficult. :/

Now as I keep mentioning Simon Kinberg was key to first Class.It was he who first brought the genesis of doing first Class.It was him who suggested to Bryan Singer using the Hellfire club as villains In his story.It was he who first came up with idea of Matthew Vaughn as director after Singer had to move over as producer.It Is known he did unredited polish on the first Class script.My suspecion Is he helped make changes after Vaughn saw Inception and decided to scrap the Xavier-Emma Frost Telephatic battle feeling It was too similar to Inception.

As a producer, I agree Kinberg did some good for the film. Unfortunately when it comes to screenplay writing, I'm not sure why the heck people keep hiring him. 7 out of the 8 things he's written were critically panned and the 8th (Sherlock Holmes) got mixed reviews at best. I can't see Vaughn just stepping back, his ego won't allow him to.