The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread - - - - - - - - Part 25

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is 371775

[The_Raganork]

Hugo Strange seemed in charge of things in Arkham City, too. :(

yeah but that game was poorly written.

Probably Dini's worst work

[venus_ice]

What impact does Dent still have on Gotham 8 years after he's dead? I guess he's viewed as some sort of martyr?

http://i40.tinypic.com/33u3nr5.png

[The Batman]

^ Probably a JFK, MLK type of impact, really.

[kvz5]

"his own custom made tumbler"

I wonder if that's a fact or just Empire's assumption? If it's a fact then that means that the only thing they got from WE are the specs (which Bane/Tatelia/LoS used and improved on) and WE didn't make those.

[The_Raganork]

^ Probably a JFK, MLK type of impact, really.

Two perfect examples
"his own custom made tumbler"

I wonder if that's a fact or just Empire's assumption? If it's a fact then that means that the only thing they got from WE are the specs (which Bane/Tatelia/LoS used and improved on) and WE didn't make those.

Same here...because Empire also suggest the Batprawn will have rotors like a chopper.

I wonder how much of it is just guesswork/reiteration of rumors and speculation seen here and around and how much of it is cleverly placed facts.

[dark_b]

i think only assumption. even if you have the blueprints you still need a big factory with all the parts and millions of dollars. and a lot of workers.

[The_Raganork]

i think only assumption. even if you have the blueprints you still need a big factory with all the parts and millions of dollars. and a lot of workers.

not that this is a retort but keep in mind they hired that pittsburgh company that worked with steel to be representation of something...

[Van Petrol]

Some of those weapons they have look pretty high tech too. Wayne Enterprises products, maybe.

[Van Petrol]

"his own custom made tumbler"

I wonder if that's a fact or just Empire's assumption? If it's a fact then that means that the only thing they got from WE are the specs (which Bane/Tatelia/LoS used and improved on) and WE didn't make those.

Well we know that not all tumblers are the same, and that some have differences to the others (i.e. the bazooka attached to one of them). Whether these are custom adjustments, or just variant models from WE, we don't know.

[ggghhh]

I think the most curious aspect of Bane's Tumblers is the camo is identical to Fox's Tumbler. So if they were custom made from blueprints you'd have to have a pretty weird obsession with detail for them to come out looking like that.

Same here...because Empire also suggest the Batprawn will have rotors like a chopper.

It must. It must... :oldrazz:

[EliteF50]

yeah but that game was poorly written.

Probably Dini's worst work

He's still new to the medium. Games are much harder to write for. In any case, I don't think it was terrible, but it could have been better. For a game, the story was great.

[The_Raganork]

He's still new to the medium. Games are much harder to write for. In any case, I don't think it was terrible, but it could have been better. For a game, the story was great.


I'd love to show you some games. Most games I play are far superior in story than AC.

Really one of the biggest let downs for me. The story was subpar for any medium.

but I do take your point about Dini being new to the medium, it is different.

[EliteF50]

I'd love to show you some games. Most games I play are far superior in story than AC.

Really one of the biggest let downs for me. The story was subpar for any medium.

but I do take your point about Dini being new to the medium, it is different.

I'm a gamer, I've played plenty of games with great stories. Arkham City's wasn't particularly bad, it just went south towards the end. Much like Arkham Asylum, actually.

[The_Raganork]

I'm a gamer, I've played plenty of games with great stories. Arkham City's wasn't particularly bad, it just went south towards the end. Much like Arkham Asylum, actually.

But nothing happened and there was no development the entire game...

it's masked pretty well with the good gameplay...

Catwoman had no purpose at all.

Surely if you played a game like Heavy Rain you could see that while the gameplay isn't exactly "fun" the story is extremely gripping.

[CapedCrusader14]

I also agree there are tons of games with far better stories than AC. I don't think Dini (I know he is still new) knows how to handle stories in games. There are things that the story in AC got right, and there are things that it got terribly wrong.

[Nave 'Torment']

A bigger let-down for Arkham City was the fact that they kept trying to make it bigger and "more epic", yeah. Arkham Asylum was amazing for what it was, but the minute you use that same dynamics for... a sandbox... it loses the same level of intensity or depth.

Not that you can't write a good story for sandbox, but I don't think Batman is one of those characters who work best in that sort of genre.

Dini is an excellent writer, one of the best in comics today, I wouldn't discredit his abilities for a good narrative based on AC.

[The_Raganork]

I also agree there are tons of games with far better stories than AC. I don't think Dini (I know he is still new) knows how to handle stories in games. There are things that the story in AC got right, and there are things that it got terribly wrong.

I think he's good at Episodic type things. This was too constant for his particular writing style.

In episodes I think it would have been cool to see the incorporation of the villains but all together it felt like they were being shoehorned in at some points.

anyway...

Nolan and Dini don't share much in common in terms of their style. I would really like to believe he wouldn't undercut his main villain for Ra's al Ghul.

I feel like if he were to do that we'd know Ra's was in charge early on, so that we may avoid the sudden let down and enjoy the long wait of: "when will they realize?"

@ Nave - absolutely. This was a misstep he's still a great writer.

[EliteF50]

But nothing happened and there was no development the entire game...

it's masked pretty well with the good gameplay...

Catwoman had no purpose at all.

Surely if you played a game like Heavy Rain you could see that while the gameplay isn't exactly "fun" the story is extremely gripping.

There were some interesting plot points in the game. Personally, I thought the whole Joker-Clayface thing was fantastic and unexpected. Especially when you go back and notice all the hints they gave you throughout the game.

[The_Raganork]

There were some interesting plot points in the game. Personally, I thought the whole Joker-Clayface thing was fantastic and unexpected. Especially when you go back and notice all the hints they gave you throughout the game.

Sure but it was treated as a minute detail...it surprised me as well but that went away because they threw me into a fight right after haha.

That's about the only part I thought was written as a story and not just an excuse to lead into a fight.

[The Caped Knight]

yeah but that game was poorly written.

Probably Dini's worst work

I disagree, I thought the story in Arkham city was rich and quite dark. Dini did an absolute wonderful job .

[The_Raganork]

I disagree, I thought the story in Arkham city was rich and quite dark. Dini did an absolute wonderful job .

then we duel!

:oldrazz:

[Sharkboy]

I'm of the mind that it's really hard to write a decent story for a sandbox game. Especially one that is supposed to be continuous as opposed to random events that make up a larger narrative (aka gta and red dead).

I think the AC story is fine, it just suffers from the same problems that Hush suffers from (the comic not the character) it just tries to stuff in way too much plot points that they all suffer. I went in thinking id get a kickass story about hugo strange controlling a city of inmates. instead i got that and about 7 other storylines all melded together in a mess.

[General Vulcun]

AC had too many forced digressions. I thought that stuff worked well in the first because it was a Joker-centric story, but in AC it was just "okay, how can we possibly drag this on a bit farther?" A prime example of this would be the Penguin/Freeze segments, even though I thought Freeze in general was a great villain.

Also, I hated how Strange got...

upstaged by both Ra's and the Joker at the end.

Was really looking forward to him as the main villain, but the end disappointed me in that regard.

[sly]

I haven't finished AC yet, so please be careful if you're posting spoilers from the game... or just get back to discussing TDKR. Thanks.

[Doc Samson]

A bigger let-down for Arkham City was the fact that they kept trying to make it bigger and "more epic", yeah. Arkham Asylum was amazing for what it was, but the minute you use that same dynamics for... a sandbox... it loses the same level of intensity or depth.

Not that you can't write a good story for sandbox, but I don't think Batman is one of those characters who work best in that sort of genre.

Dini is an excellent writer, one of the best in comics today, I wouldn't discredit his abilities for a good narrative based on AC.

I think it does, you just have to go all the way with it, ala GTA.

Make it so that you have access to the Manor/Cave as your safe house, with a fully realized Gotham. You have to use the batcomputer to figure things out on your own, instead of the game spelling it out for you.

During the day you have to do Bruce Wayne things, having access to Wayne Tech where you can task Fox with creating new weaponry, vehicles etc., having to attend certain places & functions at certain times or a "suspicion" meter starts filling up that can ultimately end the game. Maybe even changing clothes to be Matches Malone to gain some information that could make your mission easier.

Speaking of missions, instead of the Metroid/Zelda style they have, with a fully realized city, you have to decipher who and what's going on in order to even unlock a mission, and the longer it takes you, the more your "reputation" drops & the harder it becomes.

I'm by no means saying it's easy to do, but neither is any other great game in an open world. It can be done, and I think Batman lends himself to that sort of game

[Travesty]

I haven't finished AC yet, so please be careful if you're posting spoilers from the game... or just get back to discussing TDKR. Thanks.
Yeah, I normally don;t tell people to switch up the convo, but I haven't played the game at all, and I've avoided all Arkham City threads for that very reason.

[General Vulcun]

I think it does, you just have to go all the way with it, ala GTA.

Make it so that you have access to the Manor/Cave as your safe house, with a fully realized Gotham. You have to use the batcomputer to figure things out on your own, instead of the game spelling it out for you.

During the day you have to do Bruce Wayne things, having access to Wayne Tech where you can task Fox with creating new weaponry, vehicles etc., having to attend certain places & functions at certain times or a "suspicion" meter starts filling up that can ultimately end the game. Maybe even changing clothes to be Matches Malone to gain some information that could make your mission easier.

Speaking of missions, instead of the Metroid/Zelda style they have, with a fully realized city, you have to decipher who and what's going on in order to even unlock a mission, and the longer it takes you, the more your "reputation" drops & the harder it becomes.

I'm by no means saying it's easy to do, but neither is any other great game in an open world. It can be done, and I think Batman lends himself to that sort of game

Now THIS is a dream Batman game for me. I also think it'd be cool to start out as Batman and build a reputation, meeting Gordon & gaining trust, etc., but also, like you said with deciphering what's going on, it could also control which classic rogues rise up first.

I hope this kind of game is made one day.

[Nave 'Torment']

AC was promising me "The Narrows" before The Dark Knight. Yeah. I geek out, don't judge me!

[Caped Crusader]

Dini did a very good job with the AC story, love the whole Arkham series

[slimshady247]

Dini did a very good job with the AC story, love the whole Arkham series
Same. I thought it was great. But that's just me.

Back on topic...

Batman is awesome!

[the amazing fro]

The Arkham City story was pants. It was completely all over the place. Since it is a game and thus the story comes second to gameplay, I can forgive AC because the gameplay is utterly fantastic. However it would be nice to have a superhero game with an engaging story for a change. AA's story, while not perfect, was a lot tighter. Batman is in Arkham Island, The Joker has taken it over as part of his plan to destroy gotham, Batman must stop him. Nice and simple. I couldn't even begin to try and sum up AC's story, it was so convoluted and disjointed. I think the sandbox was just too big to make a good batman story.

[HighFivingMF]

I speculate that I like Batman.

[Mako]

I speculate that I like Batman.

Unless you have some sort of confirmation, I'm taking this for a grain of salt :o

[The_Raganork]

I speculate that I like Batman.

Unless you have some sort of confirmation, I'm taking this for a grain of salt :o

:funny:

[Miranda Fox]

I speculate that I like Batman.

Pics or it didn't happen! :oldrazz:

[HighFivingMF]

Unless you have some sort of confirmation, I'm taking this for a grain of salt :o

Gilberg and Rag can back me up.

[The_Raganork]

I was there in the movie theater when he premiered his love...I took a picture to prove it to you all!

[Miranda Fox]

I was there in the movie theater when he premiered his love...I took a picture to prove it to you all!

That could be anybody's love! We want clear pictures, damnit. :cmad:

[Sharkboy]

I speculate that I like Batman.

I speculate that you don't. My informed opinion of course!

[HighFivingMF]

Just wait... Soon they're going to reveal another emotion I feel toward Batman. Can't say what. But if you guess it I can wink and nod.

[venus_ice]

:lmao:

[Sharkboy]

Just wait... Soon they're going to reveal another emotion I feel toward Batman. Can't say what. But if you guess it I can wink and nod.

:cmad: Clearly the fact that you aren't telling us means you are a liar and you have no sources on what other emotion you are feeling towards Batman

[The_Raganork]

Just wait... Soon they're going to reveal another emotion I feel toward Batman. Can't say what. But if you guess it I can wink and nod.

I bet you feel Strange towards batman...

Hugo Strange that is!


ITS CONFIRMED!

[HighFivingMF]

I bet you feel Strange towards batman...

Hugo Strange that is!


ITS CONFIRMED!

Well.... ****. You figured it out much quicker than I thought.... Damn it.

[rogue_agent]

Nolan confirmed that 8 years later after TDK will this story begin. Batman should be more experienced now. How do you think Nolan will show that Batman is more of an experienced crime fighter, both mentally and physically?

[The_Raganork]

With Tangerines :awesome:

[regwec]

Nolan confirmed that 8 years later after TDK will this story begin. Batman should be more experienced now. How do you think Nolan will show that Batman is more of an experienced crime fighter, both mentally and physically?
I think it is possible that he might be more jaded and less idealistic. In BB and TDK, he seemed to want to throw every two-bit thug off a rooftop. Perhaps he will now be a shade more pragmatic, willing to overlook petty crime in order to bring down the bigger fish.

I suppose that has as much to do with him maturing as an individual, begining to see his life's work in less absolute terms.

[rogue_agent]

So Batman will use a weapon that fires tangerines to injure the criminals? That would sound great, it would support his no-kill rule. Also, as far as metal training goes, he could drink pure tangerine juice (prepared by Alfred) to soothe his stress.

[KRIM]

In BB and TDK, he seemed to want to throw every two-bit thug off a rooftop. Perhaps he will now be a shade more pragmatic, willing to overlook petty crime in order to bring down the bigger fish.
I wouldn't say that is too accurate. In the bank with Batman and Gordon, Batman easily shrugged off Joker as a minor threat, as he was more interested in the bigger picture by taking down the mob. Of course, he greatly underestimated the power and impact of one individual -- but nonetheless it does show that Bruce has priorities.

[The_Raganork]

So Batman will use a weapon that fires tangerines to injure the criminals? That would sound great, it would support his no-kill rule. Also, as far as metal training goes, he could drink pure tangerine juice (prepared by Alfred) to soothe his stress.

I think you've got it!

[rogue_agent]

I think it is possible that he might be more jaded and less idealistic. In BB and TDK, he seemed to want to throw every two-bit thug off a rooftop. Perhaps he will now be a shade more pragmatic, willing to overlook petty crime in order to bring down the bigger fish.

I suppose that has as much to do with him maturing as an individual, begining to see his life's work in less absolute terms.

This makes sense. So Bruce is gradually evolving into the veteran Batman (for lack of a better word). I just can't wait to see how it'll look onscreen.

[rogue_agent]

I think you've got it!

Thanks, but the only reason it makes sense is because Nolan confirmed it.

[Doc Samson]

I think it is possible that he might be more jaded and less idealistic. In BB and TDK, he seemed to want to throw every two-bit thug off a rooftop. Perhaps he will now be a shade more pragmatic, willing to overlook petty crime in order to bring down the bigger fish.

I suppose that has as much to do with him maturing as an individual, begining to see his life's work in less absolute terms.

lol, I'll help you steer this ship back from the depths of madness :cwink:

Personally, I'm interested in how this could affect him physically, no matter if he were active or inactive during this 8 year stretch. We've seen how bruised he becomes after just one night on the job, so if he continued this crusade 8 years straight, I can see his body broken to the point that it starts to affect his abilities. Maybe he can't quite get away as easily from the cops as he once did, or maneuvering those rooftops becomes a chore, it'd be a nice little touch.

On the other hand, if he were to be out of action for a good stretch, I can see him being rusty, not quite as sharp. One of the best things about 'Returns' is how Miller plays up just how lucky Bruce gets in a few situations where his body fails him. I'd like to see him struggle in this regard, no matter the circumstances of this timeline.

[regwec]

"This would be a bad death". Yeah, that would be a good reference to have.

[Travesty]

Just picked up Arkham City today at Best Buy's Black Friday sale for $30. About to start playing once it's installed. :)

[EliteF50]

Just picked up Arkham City today at Best Buy's Black Friday sale for $30. About to start playing once it's installed. :)

You're in for a treat. AC is awesome!

[Goku Goes Crazy]

Anything new?

[The Joker]

Just picked up Arkham City today at Best Buy's Black Friday sale for $30. About to start playing once it's installed. :)

Bloody hell it came out a month ago, Trav! What is this tardiness all about? :oldrazz:

Seriously it's awesome. I've played it 5 times now.

[Van Petrol]

^ I haven't played it yet. :csad:

[AnneFan]

^ I haven't played it yet. :csad:
You've got something to look forward to. Along with AA it's one of the best Batman things to come out in years. Along with the Nolan movies and a few others.

[Infinity9999x]

"This would be a bad death". Yeah, that would be a good reference to have.

I think my favorite was "This would be a stupid death."

[the Wankstar]

Idk if this has been brought up before but i randomly jumped into my brain, does anyone think the little kid that sang the national anthem at Heinz Field is one of the orphans at st swithins? they seem to keep popping up everywhere and i wonder if maybe there role might be bigger than just as hostages

[sad lieutenant]

Nolan confirmed that 8 years later after TDK will this story begin. Batman should be more experienced now. How do you think Nolan will show that Batman is more of an experienced crime fighter, both mentally and physically?

Grey hairs. (Nolan's genius. SLAM DUNK!)

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Idk if this has been brought up before but i randomly jumped into my brain, does anyone think the little kid that sang the national anthem at Heinz Field is one of the orphans at st swithins? they seem to keep popping up everywhere and i wonder if maybe there role might be bigger than just as hostages

Ever seen Return of the Jedi?

Nolan is a big Star Wars fan.

2 +2=master u still smingle?

[Bat-Gasm]

Bloody hell it came out a month ago, Trav! What is this tardiness all about? :oldrazz:

Seriously it's awesome. I've played it 5 times now.

Just came out for PC on the 22nd. I bought but it's way to laggy on my comp...sucks...

[Pagan]

Just came out for PC on the 22nd. I bought but it's way to laggy on my comp...sucks...

try disabling the direct x 11. it's a known bug they're working on a patch.

[Nave 'Torment']

And by tangerines you mean rubies right? :D

[regwec]

I think my favorite was "This would be a stupid death."
Yes, that's it. Haven't read TDK for ages. I think those lines really helped to show how Batman had become more vulnerable, and also how he had become aware of his life having a legendary context.

Did Frank Miller start sniffing glue at the end of the 80s? He is one of the biggest losses to comic book writing, and he's still alive and working. :(

[Nave 'Torment']

I think it is possible that he might be more jaded and less idealistic. In BB and TDK, he seemed to want to throw every two-bit thug off a rooftop. Perhaps he will now be a shade more pragmatic, willing to overlook petty crime in order to bring down the bigger fish.

I suppose that has as much to do with him maturing as an individual, begining to see his life's work in less absolute terms.

That's one of the things I loved about this Two-Face, we see how while Batman and Gordon are busy with the Joker in what amounts to a headline-grabbing, high-octane climatic encounters that are just short of the larger-than-life settings from the comics, it's a hardened Harvey who goes back and "takes care" of the things the three of them started out to amend - the corruption and organised crime-lords in Gotham City; the 'petty criminals' so to speak.

But would Batman ever look over the petty crimes in order to bring down the big fish? As a superhero he should, he's natural foes are the freaks he helped create, but would that justify his actions a crimefighter? Wayne was extremely idealistic at the end of Begins, and much more oppressed by the reality around him in TDK, it'd be great to see where his ideals lie this time around.

Personally, I'm interested in how this could affect him physically, no matter if he were active or inactive during this 8 year stretch. We've seen how bruised he becomes after just one night on the job, so if he continued this crusade 8 years straight, I can see his body broken to the point that it starts to affect his abilities. Maybe he can't quite get away as easily from the cops as he once did, or maneuvering those rooftops becomes a chore, it'd be a nice little touch.

On the other hand, if he were to be out of action for a good stretch, I can see him being rusty, not quite as sharp. One of the best things about 'Returns' is how Miller plays up just how lucky Bruce gets in a few situations where his body fails him. I'd like to see him struggle in this regard, no matter the circumstances of this timeline.

I'd love to see that. It's really a part of who he is, and if 8 years later is really the tag-line I'd say a more angry encounter with Fox would be in order.

[Nave 'Torment']

Yes, that's it. Haven't read TDK for ages. I think those lines really helped to show how Batman had become more vulnerable, and also how he had become aware of his life having a legendary context.

Did Frank Miller start sniffing glue at the end of the 80s? He is one of the biggest losses to comic book writing, and he's still alive and working. :(

I'm going to re-read DK:R soon. And yes... it's just... heart-wrecking what happened to ol' Frank. You actually, inwardly, WANT all his words to be a self-parody, it's THAT depressing.

[Oberon sexton]

Yes, that's it. Haven't read TDK for ages. I think those lines really helped to show how Batman had become more vulnerable, and also how he had become aware of his life having a legendary context.

Did Frank Miller start sniffing glue at the end of the 80s? He is one of the biggest losses to comic book writing, and he's still alive and working. :(

He's definitely changed, But I still think he's got some talent left, Holy Terror was one of the best looking books this year, so artistically he's still got it.
If you look at All star Batman and Robin as an alternate, more crazy, elseworlds story it's a fairly good, if not overly emotional series about Batman trying to apply his own ****ed up way of dealing with grief to a 12 year old who's just experienced the same thing as him. But yeh he's certainly not the same guy who wrote year one that for sure.

[Nave 'Torment']

hes far from it. all-star is brilliant as a parody

[BrollySupersj]

I speculate that I like Batman.

Who was your source?:awesome:

[ggghhh]

Sorry if this is old, but I've just discovered what Batman's holding on the Empire cover.
http://i.imgur.com/wtUgk.jpg
It's a Mattel nerf-gun!

[Brain Damage]

Sorry if this is old, but I've just discovered what Batman's holding on the Empire cover.
http://i.imgur.com/wtUgk.jpg
It's a Mattel nerf-gun!

I see the Dark Knight is getting pretty desperate in his non-lethal methods.

[rogue_agent]

Sorry if this is old, but I've just discovered what Batman's holding on the Empire cover.

It's a Mattel nerf-gun!

Lucius has gone insane. Oh no.

[The_Raganork]

Lucius: What kind of Weapon do you need to fight this...Bane.

Batman: (growl) Its Nerf or nothing.

[rogue_agent]

Lucius: What kind of Weapon do you need to fight this...Bane.

Batman: (growl) Its Nerf or nothing.

:funny:

[Carnotaur3]

Sorry if this is old, but I've just discovered what Batman's holding on the Empire cover.
http://i.imgur.com/wtUgk.jpg
It's a Mattel nerf-gun!

That's hilarious!

[venus_ice]

:lmao: hilarious.

[camp Blood]

could it be a multiple stun gun that holds a bunch of cartridges

[The_Raganork]

The fact that its so bright somewhat lends to that whatever it is it will be using pulses of light to do something.

someone here suggested that it could make people sick, somewhat similar to the effects of the sick sticks in Minority ReportI think that's a very good and interesting idea. More non-lethal weapons for Batman especially because we've seen that Normal Gotham citizens appear to be sided with Bane.

[regwec]

It omits an unpleasant odor.

[sad lieutenant]

Lucius has gone insane. Oh no.

This movie needs Crazy Lucius!

Bruce: "This maniac must be stopped; Gotham must be saved."
Lucius, beaming: "Oh, I think I have just the thing..."
Bruce grins knowingly.
Lucius: "... The Bat-tle Ax! Get it? B-A-T-tle! It's an ax I bought, then I drew a bat on it with a Sharpie!"
Bruce's face is stone.
Lucius (cont'd): "The military had no need for it, and this baby has been collecting dust ever since. I realize that the deployment of such a weapon may be ethically troubling... Just whisper your initials to it, and it will disappear!"

[craigdbfan]

Batman's new weapon needs to electrocute chumps. Simply making them sick isn't badass enough. I just want it to be the REC gun essentially.

Does anyone really want to see this?:

Batman: Have a bite of this!

Thug: "Oh no I have diarrhea! *poops pants*.

On second thought that'd be kind of hilarious.

[rogue_agent]

This movie needs Crazy Lucius!

Bruce: "This maniac must be stopped; Gotham must be saved."
Lucius, beaming: "Oh, I think I have just the thing..."
Bruce grins knowingly.
Lucius: "... The Bat-tle Ax! Get it? B-A-T-tle! It's an ax I bought, then I drew a bat on it with a Sharpie!"
Bruce's face is stone.
Lucius (cont'd): "The military had no need for it, and this baby has been collecting dust ever since. I realize that the deployment of such a weapon may be ethically troubling... Just whisper your initials to it, and it will disappear!"

That's the first time Bruce hasn't been impressed. I'd love to see this.

[Nave 'Torment']

Hahaha.... haven't you figured it out yet? Bane's a vampire.

[ThePhantasm]

http://i.imgur.com/wtUgk.jpg


Bruce: I need a way to take down enemies at a range.
Lucius: I'd recommend a good handgun.
Bruce: Without killing them.
Lucius: Now that's more like it Mr. Wayne. Mattel had a project a few years ago called "Nerf." We could look into that.

[rogue_agent]

Hahaha.... haven't you figured it out yet? Bane's a vampire.

http://pharris13.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/0batman_is_shocked.jpg?w=427

[rogue_agent]

Bruce: I need a way to take down enemies at a range.
Lucius: I'd recommend a good handgun.
Bruce: Without killing them.
Lucius: Now that's more like it Mr. Wayne. Mattel had a project a few years ago called "Nerf." We could look into that.

That's really nice. :woot:

[Just_Human]

:lmao: hilarious.

Not really

[HighFivingMF]

Not really

JZNSaCJiixw

[Nave 'Torment']

So I made a comment on how we actually got to see the hi-def pics early on the forums, before they released em on the SHH front page. I was saying how being a forum member has its perks that way.

It got removed.

Guess the SHH mods work overtime eh?

[TLBorlando]

I must admit....I love when people use quotes from Batman films and switch it up based on the conversation....We should have a competition for the best quote from a Batman film in these forums....We must, we must

[rogue_agent]

I must admit....I love when people use quotes from Batman films and switch it up based on the conversation....We should have a competition for the best quote from a Batman film in these forums....We must, we must

I love this too. Also, quotes from the actors' other films and then mixing it up.

[TLBorlando]

I'll pass. It's not about what kind of quotes you use, it's what you do that defines you.


Never rub another man's rhubarb....:word:

[Nave 'Torment']

If you make your quote more than just a quote... if you devote it to an ideal... it becomes something else entirely.

Propaganda, Mr. Wayne... Propaganda.

[rogue_agent]

We were in this together, but then you were banned. Now this new moderator rises, you must create a new account.

What if I've been IP-banned?

You must. You must.

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

http://pharris13.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/0batman_is_shocked.jpg?w=427

At the end of the bootleg teaser, I couldn't help but think that this was Batman's expression when he was backing away from Bane.:lmao:

[Nevincer]

At the end of the bootleg teaser, I couldn't help but think that this was Batman's expression when he was backing away from Bane.:lmao:
Same here :oldrazz: When we weren't allowed to post the bootleg, I'd post up that image as a description of Batman's literal expression, for hilarity.

[venus_ice]

Can someone please buy me this?

http://www.hottopic.com/hottopic/PopCulture/EverythingElse/ComicsAnimeCartoons//DC+Comics+The+Dark+Knight+Rises+Teaser+T-Shirt-175648.jsp


http://img.hottopic.com/is/image/HotTopic/175648_hi?wid=700&fmt=jpeg&qlt=85,0&op_sharpen=1&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.0,0.0,0,0&iccEmbed=0

[Nave 'Torment']

^ no! that is just... nO! I WANT THAT! I WANT THAT RIGHT NOW!

[Nave 'Torment']

At the end of the bootleg teaser, I couldn't help but think that this was Batman's expression when he was backing away from Bane.:lmao:

:lmao: so true!

[Nevincer]

It's hard to believe how awesome that is whilst only being a teaser poster. Can you imagine what the TDKR equivalent of this poster will be?

http://www.seat42f.com/images/stories/Movies/Posters/the-dark-knight-movie-poster-world-without-rules.jpg

I get chills just thinking about it.

[Dr Lee]

Where did that scared Bats image come from BTW?

[Nevincer]

I remember it first originating when people started making funny comics of the Bats/Joker interrogation scene.

[rogue_agent]

At the end of the bootleg teaser, I couldn't help but think that this was Batman's expression when he was backing away from Bane.:lmao:

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/r0gu3_ag3nt/shock.png

I suck at Photoshop -for now. :csad:

[venus_ice]

When will we get a poster? Soon right??? :wow:

We've got less than a month to the trailer right now. :wow:

[Mr. Wooden Alligator]

Where did that scared Bats image come from BTW?

I second this.

As for a teaser poster, perhaps a different shot of "ghost-town Gotham" with the ruined buildings, a mist/fog rising from the ruins with either Batman or Batman and Catwoman standing above, looking out over the city,

[CrypticOne]

Where are the avvy's? Need to update mine.

[ggghhh]

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae265/r0gu3_ag3nt/shock.png

I suck at Photoshop -for now. :csad:

Beat me to it.
At least you can still work out what it's meant to be in yours.:woot:

http://i.imgur.com/CCgcX.jpg

[Boom]

:lmao:

[rogue_agent]

Beat me to it.
At least you can still work out what it's meant to be in yours.:woot:

http://i.imgur.com/CCgcX.jpg

Wow, yours is a million times better! It blends in well with the background. Thanks! :awesome:

[venus_ice]

HAHA I miss these

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/014/990/257px-Batman05.jpg

[Doctor Who]

Beat me to it.
At least you can still work out what it's meant to be in yours.:woot:

http://i.imgur.com/CCgcX.jpg

:lmao:

[Charism]

Mvahahahah! xD xD XD Lol at this Bats face. xD


But - question. Tangerines. WTF? ;D From where they are?

[rogue_agent]

Mvahahahah! xD xD XD Lol at this Bats face. xD

But - question. Tangerines. WTF? ;D From where they are?

This link will reveal all:
http://youtu.be/ZS6bD3SpIvk

[Charism]

This link will reveal all:
http://youtu.be/ZS6bD3SpIvk

O.O

And I LOLed again. :lmao:

Thanks for enlightement! ;p

[Nevincer]

O.O

And I LOLed again. :lmao:

Thanks for enlightement! ;p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SuTLMp6Ytw&feature=related

This version is better imo. Caine is more... hypnotising...

[rogue_agent]

Thanks for enlightement! ;p

You;re welcome. Happy to help. :yay:

[MultipleJesuses]

Have you guys seen what CBM said about us?

" Bear in mind that these forums have been notoriously unreliable at times"

Now I know this can be true at time but CBM saying that about us?

[HighFivingMF]

Have you guys seen what CBM said about us?

" Bear in mind that these forums have been notoriously unreliable at times"

Now I know this can be true at time but CBM saying that about us?

CBM has been notoriously stupid at certain times.

And those certain times are all of them.

[Nevincer]

CBM probably know their reputation on these boards, much like Jett, and make snide remarks back in kind.

[rogue_agent]

Have you guys seen what CBM said about us?

" Bear in mind that these forums have been notoriously unreliable at times"

Now I know this can be true at time but CBM saying that about us?

Don't worry, it seems like they're talking about themselves.

[MultipleJesuses]

CBM probably know their reputation on these boards, much like Jett, and make snide remarks back in kind.

Don't get me wrong, I like CBM as a website, the layout etc is easy to use. But the users just seem so idiotic. They're "big name writers" constantly steal from our boards and pass them off as their own. And BOF... well, after you guys' reviews, I haven't even ventured over there :oldrazz:

[Alex Logan]

Have you guys seen what CBM said about us?

" Bear in mind that these forums have been notoriously unreliable at times"

Now I know this can be true at time but CBM saying that about us?

In feudal Japan samurai would ignore people that they felt were of no threat to them.

[Caped Crusader]

We're a forum that debates, speculates & etc. CBM is a site that posts false rumors 95% of the time as if it's real news.

[The_Raganork]

I'm going to Join CBM and toughen it up!

[Nevincer]

I'm going to Join CBM and toughen it up!
What are you talking about? CBM is beyond saving. It is a breeding ground for ignorance and plain bollocks and must be allowed to die.

[The_Raganork]

What are you talking about? CBM is beyond saving. It is a breeding ground for ignorance and plain bollocks and must be allowed to die.

Are you saying you wan me to...kill those people...

I'm no executioner.

[rogue_agent]

This, is the most importaant function of the Hype. It is one that we've performed for centuries. CBM must be ignored.

[Yurka]

"Bear in mind that these forums have been notoriously unreliable at times"



Pot. Kettle. Black.

[MultipleJesuses]

In feudal Japan samurai would ignore people that they felt were of no threat to them.

That would explain their shorter life spans then.

[Zorak]

CBM has some idiots writing articles, but to be honest I like the website as well, and truth be told there are some of those users that are extremely nice, and have nothing against us. It's just some writers that think they own the place.

[infamous]

That would explain their shorter life spans then.

Feudal Japan had a Bushido code of honor.. no one was getting slashed in the back. Samurais had honor.

[MultipleJesuses]

Feudal Japan had a Bushido code of honor.. no one was getting slashed in the back. Samurais had honor.

It legitimately is a shame that honor doesn't exist anymore. :csad:

Although I in no way feel threatened, nor feel I have slashed the back of CBM. :woot:

[Alex Logan]

That would explain their shorter life spans then.

No, wrong. Take a little time and LEARN something about history. They lacked the means to care for themselfs properly... and it was FEUDAL Japan. The cowboys of the wild west had NOTHING on them.

[The_Raganork]

The two of you can't fight because I like you both.

So stop.

[dony2012]

"So... Alon Aboutboul had an interview and what he said about his role sounded like it's not going to be a small role (and that his character is in a lot of scenes with Bane, including that scene in the football stadium that we've heard about) and he's apparently under contract and can't say what's the character name or role in the film (which pretty much confirms it's not an original character but someone from the comics)..."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1345836/...read/191580291

[The_Raganork]

Again as I said in the other thread.

Matthew Modine won't talk about Foley or his name and he's an original character so that takes out that theory

[Alex Logan]

The two of you can't fight because I like you both.

So stop.

Who's fighting? I'm simply point out they someone should know a little something about the era before they speak.

[dony2012]

Again as I said in the other thread.

Matthew Modine won't talk about Foley or his name and he's an original character so that takes out that theory

Yeah, got it.

[ChrisB]

What are you talking about? CBM is beyond saving. It is a breeding ground for ignorance and plain bollocks and must be allowed to die.
CBM isn't beyond saving. Give it more time, there are good people there.

;) In all seriousness though, I do follow 1 of the main publishers on Twitter. He posts legit stories, not any of the BS CBM is famous for. They get a bad wrap because anyone can post a story, but the regulars that get paid to write for CBM do take their jobs seriously.

[ggghhh]

Again as I said in the other thread.

Matthew Modine won't talk about Foley or his name and he's an original character so that takes out that theory

Are you sure?

[The_Raganork]

Are you sure?

Pretty sure. I'm not amazing with comics. Is there another Foley whose a high ranking cop in the comics?

[MultipleJesuses]

No, wrong. Take a little time and LEARN something about history. They lacked the means to care for themselfs properly... and it was FEUDAL Japan. The cowboys of the wild west had NOTHING on them.

I am very historical :up: I just know little - nothing of feudal Japan. I'm not going to get into an argument (which I would lose) on a Batman forum about Japanese Samurai :doh:

[The_Raganork]

I am very historical :up: I just know little - nothing of feudal Japan. I'm not going to get into an argument (which I would lose) on a Batman forum about Japanese Samurai :doh:


:funny:
have I told you I :hrt: you today?

[MultipleJesuses]

:funny:
have I told you I :hrt: you today?

:woot: Not nearly enough :hrt:

[Dark Knight]

CBM has been notoriously stupid at certain times.

And those certain times are all of them.



Well to be fair, many of the patrons here have been stupid at times as well.

[Alex Logan]

Here's some edited photos for everyone. :yay:

http://www.imagerise.com/out.php/i1317433_01.jpg

http://www.imagerise.com/out.php/i1317569_03.jpg

[boocherhix]

^ Dude, thanx. :)

[Alex Logan]

^ Dude, thanx. :)

You're welcome. Maybe I'll do the other Bane one tomarrow.

[boocherhix]

http://i39.tinypic.com/330b4wi.gif :D

[dony2012]

Again as I said in the other thread.

Matthew Modine won't talk about Foley or his name and he's an original character so that takes out that theory

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=21134203&postcount=549

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=361881&page=22


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuPPVqat4fA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuPPVqat4fA

[DarkKnight FTW]

Pretty sure. I'm not amazing with comics. Is there another Foley whose a high ranking cop in the comics?

Axel Foley

[lime]

Axel Foley

http://store.picbg.net/pubpic/DB/16/06cfb9ec9344db16.jpg

[infamous]

I wonder if there is any significants with Bane's one glove.. or just a homage to MJ...

[KRIM]

Isn't it obvious?

http://i.imgur.com/UmRTM.jpg

[jabroni2kz]

will not bother me at all but I just realized that young Talia (King) and older Talia/Tate (Marion) are unlikely to sound much alike

-i doubt Marion got rid of her accent to match King-and Nolan might not have wanted her to--Talia with a foreign accent fits

-and if Nolan even tried i don't know how much mileage he could have got trying to have King somehow match Marion's accent

[Godzilla2000]

You know, I'm a bit depressed that this is the last Nolan movie. as much as I want to see a good representation of Bane in the movies that erases the travesty they had in Batman and Robin, I kind of wanted to see Anti-Villain Azrael in a live action film. Before he was lamed up Azrael was a badass anti-Batman and it would have been interesting to see Batman have to defend his honor as a vigilante when the Gotham PD would be linking the brutal slayings of criminals that were Azrael's doing on him. Obviously Commissioner Gordon would be the only person on the force who would clearly see Batman is not the guy they should be looking for.

[Sharkboy]

You know, I'm a bit depressed that this is the last Nolan movie. as much as I want to see a good representation of Bane in the movies that erases the travesty they had in Batman and Robin, I kind of wanted to see Anti-Villain Azrael in a live action film. Before he was lamed up Azrael was a badass anti-Batman and it would have been interesting to see Batman have to defend his honor as a vigilante when the Gotham PD would be linking the brutal slayings of criminals that were Azrael's doing on him. Obviously Commissioner Gordon would be the only person on the force who would clearly see Batman is not the guy they should be looking for.

I'm sure someone else will be up to the task.

[Citadel30]

Here's some edited photos for everyone. :yay:

http://www.imagerise.com/out.php/i1317433_01.jpg



If you look at the top of this photo, you see bright lights up in the right corner. I know this is reaching, but to me it looks like it may be lighting the Batcave laboratory. It definitely doesnt look like lighting from a prison, a dam, or underneath a bridge. It looks to modern and florescent.

just thinking out loud here... :whatever:

[NolanLover]

If you look at the top of this photo, you see bright lights up in the right corner. I know this is reaching, but to me it looks like it may be lighting the Batcave laboratory. It definitely doesnt look like lighting from a prison, a dam, or underneath a bridge. It looks to modern and florescent.

just thinking out loud here... :whatever:

I think it's a sewer or a place like that. It would be cool for it to be the Batcave, but based on the other Empire pic with Batman and some unconsious soldiers in a long tunnel I don't think that's happening.

[Van Petrol]

I can't wait to see the scene where Bane tells Bruce, "Hey Bruce...I F***ed Your Mom!" (People who've seen 'The Take' should get this). :cwink: :woot:

[Citadel30]

I think it's a sewer or a place like that. It would be cool for it to be the Batcave, but based on the other Empire pic with Batman and some unconsious soldiers in a long tunnel I don't think that's happening.

It could be a tunnel, but it doesnt look like any tunnel i have ever driven through... It looks more like the Cave and with the water fall and some heavy duty bracing to support whatever is heavy up top (Wayne Manor?)

who knows... but i would love to see Bane surprise Batman in the Batcave and kick Bat's A$$ to really shake things up.

[rogue_agent]

Pretty sure. I'm not amazing with comics. Is there another Foley whose a high ranking cop in the comics?

There was a Foley in No Man's Land. If my memory serves me well, he used to get into heated arguments with Gordon on the need to use lethal force. It was entertaining to read those arguments.

[regwec]

Oh, yeah. He ended up leading his own splinter group.

[Alex Logan]

Anoter Bane.

http://www.imagerise.com/out.php/i1318127_02.jpg

[Godzilla2000]

I'm sure someone else will be up to the task.

Oh I hope so because Azrael as he was originally conceived before all that Azbats stuff is a pretty neat character who could fit in well with the realistic approach Nolan has started with the Batman movies. I just hope Bale continues to play Bruce Wayne/Batman, but I'd understand if he wants out if the quality of the scripts slips.

[*Whiplash*]

http://www.imagerise.com/out.php/i1317433_01.jpg


"Welcome to the Bane-Cave!"

[DoomsdayApex]

Oh I hope so because Azrael as he was originally conceived before all that Azbats stuff is a pretty neat character who could fit in well with the realistic approach Nolan has started with the Batman movies. I just hope Bale continues to play Bruce Wayne/Batman, but I'd understand if he wants out if the quality of the scripts slips.

Who doesn't want Bale back? Christian, in my opinion, has been the best actor to put on the cowl thus far.

Yet considering the ending that is approaching, we've probably seen the last of Bale, Oldman, Freeman & Caine, and Nolan together in the same project.

:csad:

[Yurka]

Anoter Bane.

http://www.imagerise.com/out.php/i1318127_02.jpg

This will make an awesome wallpaper if we get a higher res. Nice work :up:

[regwec]

They will all be missed, but the only one of them who seems totally irreplaceable to me is Gary Oldman. I just couldn't imagine anyone else as Jim Gordon, anymore.

[venus_ice]

Anyone notice the perspective on the new Bane pic RIM posted in the picture thread? :funny: You can complain about camera tricks but they do work!



And don't say he looks crosseyed this time!

[バット人]

Who doesn't want Bale back? Christian, in my opinion, has been the best actor to put on the cowl thus far. Personally, I wouldn't say Bale is the best actor to put on the cowl to date (it's either him or Keaton to me), BUT I can't picture anyone out there right now, currently, playing Batman other than Bale. Bale IS Batman. Just like Keaton was the Batman of the 80s and 90s, Bale is the current Batman. I'd like to see Bale go on as long as humanly possible as the Dark Knight in furture films, even though that will probably never happen. :(

[ThePhantasm]

Personally, I wouldn't say Bale is the best actor to put on the cowl to date (it's either him or Keaton to me), BUT I can't picture anyone out there right now, currently, playing Batman other than Bale. Bale IS Batman. Just like Keaton was the Batman of the 80s and 90s, Bale is the current Batman. I'd like to see Bale go on as long as humanly possible as the Dark Knight in furture films, even though that will probably never happen. :(

It definitely won't happen, since he said this is his last film.

Batman is a versatile character. There will be more great Batman actors in the future.

[rogue_agent]

Oh, yeah. He ended up leading his own splinter group.

Then he got totally owned by the Joker. :woot:

[sqwhale]

Oh I hope so because Azrael as he was originally conceived before all that Azbats stuff is a pretty neat character who could fit in well with the realistic approach Nolan has started with the Batman movies. I just hope Bale continues to play Bruce Wayne/Batman, but I'd understand if he wants out if the quality of the scripts slips.
People are still clinging to this?!? This is the LAST Batman movie with these actors/director and certainly an end to this story. Of course there will be other Batman movies but will be different actors, director, story, etc. I thought everyone knew this by now?

[Van Petrol]

These set-vids have most likely been posted before, but since I haven't seen them yet, I'll post them.

The scene looks to be a shootout between the GCPD and some thugs. JGL is there too. At one point you even get a peak at what Nolan is seeing/watching on his Casio monitor in regards to the scene being filmed. As well as Joe on his phone in between takes.


h-N8w159DIE

hB1vMXyeF6w

zWYt4vHAnXI

EixC51YhvNM

jxWak_rjToo

[Alex Logan]

This will make an awesome wallpaper if we get a higher res. Nice work :up:

Thanks!

[kickass]

I've never seen those videos! They're amazing! I love how the camera zooms right in to the playback shot haha.

[NolanLover]

It could be a tunnel, but it doesnt look like any tunnel i have ever driven through... It looks more like the Cave and with the water fall and some heavy duty bracing to support whatever is heavy up top (Wayne Manor?)

who knows... but i would love to see Bane surprise Batman in the Batcave and kick Bat's A$$ to really shake things up.

Ok, I was refraining posting this because I have no idea if it's true or not. Somebody I know was an extra in the Pittsburgh shoots and I recently saw him. He's not known for telling the truth, so take this with a grain of salt, but he managed to overhear some conversations between Nolan and the crew/cast. Here we go, most likely that none of this is true but it's worth posting anyway:

Ras al Ghul is somewhat similar to the President (the name), when somebody is crowned leader of the LoS he is named Ras al Ghul. Ken Watanebe from BB was Ras al Ghul at the time, and then Henri Ducard inherited it. And if the leader is a woman, she is named Talia al Ghul.

Leading on from that, Tate is Talia but she is not Ducard's daughter.

Abon Attboul (or however you spell it) is a complete bastard. After Ducard found a young Bane rising from the flames in his burning village, he acquired major injuried and severe damage to his lungs, so he was sent to the LoS's scientist to *fix*. While Bane was in his care, he conducted horrific experiments on him to turn him into the ultimate warrior: Somebody immune to pain, an unstoppable brute. He creates the breathing mask for him which is there to keep him alive and deliver the anaesthetic that kills the pain vessels or whatever in his body.

The place where Batman+Bane have been seen in the Empire pics and in the teaser trailer is NOT the Batcave. After Bats defeated the LoS in BB, some soldiers stayed behind and set up a base in the sewers where they have been watching Batman, waiting for the right moment to strike. After Ducard (Ras) died Talia became the new leader of the LoS and Bane was her *fighter* in a way.

More on Bane's backstory. After all the hideous experiments performed on him as a child, The LoS tricked Bane into thinking that Abon kidnapped him and killed the scientist and stole a machine that he had been working on, which is the mystery device used by Bane in Gotham. He was trained all his life in the LoS and Ras wanted him to be his heir, but during his early-20's Ras and Bane had a falling out so Bane left. Shortly after this, Bruce came along to the LoS and Ras saw a lot of Bane in him, they mirrored each other in a way. After Bruce left, the attack on Gotham obviously began and the events of BB unfolded. Talia wanted Bane back so she set out to look for him, and sent him to Gotham around the beginning of TDK.

I haven't been told what the device is, he just referred to it as a Doomsday device. I'm pretty sure it's a bomb, but it's being used to hold the city hostage, kind of. The events of TDK pan out, and Bane watches from the shadows, collecting information to defeat Batman. The reason Bane wants to destroy Batman (or the reason why Talia wants him to destroy Batman more like) is because they believe he killed Ras and they want revenge, so they come to Gotham to finish Ras's job.

Talia will obviously disguise herself as Tate and most of the LoS will come to Gotham with her, disguising themselves as police officers and politicians etc. Tate slowly starts to take over Wayne Enterprises and the LoS have already infiltrated most of the U.S government infastructre, so they are basically in charge of what they want to do with Gotham.

People have been speculating about what will happen to Gotham, whether a bomb will go off, an earthquake machine or whether the LoS are holding it hostage. None of them are right. The government (or the LoS should I say) decide that because Gotham is so riddled with crime (pun intended) that it would be turned into an open-air prison entitled Arkham City. All citeizens could leave if they wished, but the GCPD don't and neither do a lot of the new politicans and public servants who are really working for the LoS.

Some info on how the movie will pan out. That supposed prologue description, the one where Batman gets his back broken by Bane, is true. But it's not the prologue. Bane's origin takes up around the first half an hour of the movie and he told me that it sounds really, really good. The part AFTER the prologue picks up immediately after TDK, and its's basically what the description says. People believe that Batman disappeared because he went into hiding, not because he got his back broken by a powerful supervillain who was going to destroy the city.

Starting off, Bane plays a 'Dictator' type role, similar to how Penguin was portrayed in BR. He is on Gotham's side, and when AC is announced, he is chosen to be the warden, basically what Hugo Strange's role was in the video game. Bane realises that he would take no joy out of destroying a city filled with criminals, so before AC begins, he invades the Gotham Rogues game and introduces his Doomsday device. He does indeed execute somebody on the pitch, but I wasn't told who it is.

After Bats gets his back broken, the movie fast forwards 8 years later and we get fed flashbacks of how Bane slowly took over Gotham. There is one thing different in the back-breaking scene though, it's not set in that tunnel-y place like it said in the description, it's set in the secret underground LoS base and the chanting from the teaser is hundreds of LoS assassins chanting for Batman's downfall at the hands of Bane. AS many have guessed, Bane won't be that huge. But he will be damn strong. He will only appear huge when he sprays Batman with Scarecrow's fear gas, re-worked to make Bane appear massive to the victim.

Catwoman will start out as a cat burglar in the movie. She will indeed be a prositute, but will give that up when she meets Bruce Wayne and they form a relationship. One thing leads to another and she learns his secret, so decides to give up her life of villainy and replace Batman in his war against crime, but this time she kills the criminals.

One final piece of info. I know how Bane dies, kind of. Because he can't feel pain, he doesn't know when to stop. For example, he could have every bone in his body broken but because he can't feel pain, he carries on fighting. So Bane will be essentially beaten to death without him knowing it.

Well that's all I have. Most of this probably isn't true but it does fit in with some of the rumours we've heard. I don't know anything about John Blake, but I'm told his character is a mystery and he has appeared in either BB or TDK before, but he's not telling me who he is. My bet is he's the kid from the narrows in BB. But that's just pure speculation. :yay:

[Travesty]

While Bane was in his care, he conducted horrific experiments on him to turn him into the ultimate warrior: Somebody immune to pain, an unstoppable brute.
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa353/Travesty70077/TheUltimateWarrior.gif

[KRIM]

Ok, I was refraining posting this because I have no idea if it's true or not. Somebody I know was an extra in the Pittsburgh shoots and I recently saw him. He's not known for telling the truth, so take this with a grain of salt, but he managed to overhear some conversations between Nolan and the crew/cast. Here we go, most likely that none of this is true but it's worth posting anyway:

Ras al Ghul is somewhat similar to the President (the name), when somebody is crowned leader of the LoS he is named Ras al Ghul. Ken Watanebe from BB was Ras al Ghul at the time, and then Henri Ducard inherited it. And if the leader is a woman, she is named Talia al Ghul.

...
I stopped reading here.

[kickass]

"He's not known for telling the truth" LOL. What kind of friend is that?

[craigdbfan]

Ok, I was refraining posting this because I have no idea if it's true or not. Somebody I know was an extra in the Pittsburgh shoots and I recently saw him. He's not known for telling the truth, so take this with a grain of salt, but he managed to overhear some conversations between Nolan and the crew/cast. Here we go, most likely that none of this is true but it's worth posting anyway:

Ras al Ghul is somewhat similar to the President (the name), when somebody is crowned leader of the LoS he is named Ras al Ghul. Ken Watanebe from BB was Ras al Ghul at the time, and then Henri Ducard inherited it. And if the leader is a woman, she is named Talia al Ghul.

Leading on from that, Tate is Talia but she is not Ducard's daughter.

Abon Attboul (or however you spell it) is a complete bastard. After Ducard found a young Bane rising from the flames in his burning village, he acquired major injuried and severe damage to his lungs, so he was sent to the LoS's scientist to *fix*. While Bane was in his care, he conducted horrific experiments on him to turn him into the ultimate warrior: Somebody immune to pain, an unstoppable brute. He creates the breathing mask for him which is there to keep him alive and deliver the anaesthetic that kills the pain vessels or whatever in his body.

The place where Batman+Bane have been seen in the Empire pics and in the teaser trailer is NOT the Batcave. After Bats defeated the LoS in BB, some soldiers stayed behind and set up a base in the sewers where they have been watching Batman, waiting for the right moment to strike. After Ducard (Ras) died Talia became the new leader of the LoS and Bane was her *fighter* in a way.

More on Bane's backstory. After all the hideous experiments performed on him as a child, The LoS tricked Bane into thinking that Abon kidnapped him and killed the scientist and stole a machine that he had been working on, which is the mystery device used by Bane in Gotham. He was trained all his life in the LoS and Ras wanted him to be his heir, but during his early-20's Ras and Bane had a falling out so Bane left. Shortly after this, Bruce came along to the LoS and Ras saw a lot of Bane in him, they mirrored each other in a way. After Bruce left, the attack on Gotham obviously began and the events of BB unfolded. Talia wanted Bane back so she set out to look for him, and sent him to Gotham around the beginning of TDK.

I haven't been told what the device is, he just referred to it as a Doomsday device. I'm pretty sure it's a bomb, but it's being used to hold the city hostage, kind of. The events of TDK pan out, and Bane watches from the shadows, collecting information to defeat Batman. The reason Bane wants to destroy Batman (or the reason why Talia wants him to destroy Batman more like) is because they believe he killed Ras and they want revenge, so they come to Gotham to finish Ras's job.

Talia will obviously disguise herself as Tate and most of the LoS will come to Gotham with her, disguising themselves as police officers and politicians etc. Tate slowly starts to take over Wayne Enterprises and the LoS have already infiltrated most of the U.S government infastructre, so they are basically in charge of what they want to do with Gotham.

People have been speculating about what will happen to Gotham, whether a bomb will go off, an earthquake machine or whether the LoS are holding it hostage. None of them are right. The government (or the LoS should I say) decide that because Gotham is so riddled with crime (pun intended) that it would be turned into an open-air prison entitled Arkham City. All citeizens could leave if they wished, but the GCPD don't and neither do a lot of the new politicans and public servants who are really working for the LoS.

Some info on how the movie will pan out. That supposed prologue description, the one where Batman gets his back broken by Bane, is true. But it's not the prologue. Bane's origin takes up around the first half an hour of the movie and he told me that it sounds really, really good. The part AFTER the prologue picks up immediately after TDK, and its's basically what the description says. People believe that Batman disappeared because he went into hiding, not because he got his back broken by a powerful supervillain who was going to destroy the city.

Starting off, Bane plays a 'Dictator' type role, similar to how Penguin was portrayed in BR. He is on Gotham's side, and when AC is announced, he is chosen to be the warden, basically what Hugo Strange's role was in the video game. Bane realises that he would take no joy out of destroying a city filled with criminals, so before AC begins, he invades the Gotham Rogues game and introduces his Doomsday device. He does indeed execute somebody on the pitch, but I wasn't told who it is.

After Bats gets his back broken, the movie fast forwards 8 years later and we get fed flashbacks of how Bane slowly took over Gotham. There is one thing different in the back-breaking scene though, it's not set in that tunnel-y place like it said in the description, it's set in the secret underground LoS base and the chanting from the teaser is hundreds of LoS assassins chanting for Batman's downfall at the hands of Bane. AS many have guessed, Bane won't be that huge. But he will be damn strong. He will only appear huge when he sprays Batman with Scarecrow's fear gas, re-worked to make Bane appear massive to the victim.

Catwoman will start out as a cat burglar in the movie. She will indeed be a prositute, but will give that up when she meets Bruce Wayne and they form a relationship. One thing leads to another and she learns his secret, so decides to give up her life of villainy and replace Batman in his war against crime, but this time she kills the criminals.

One final piece of info. I know how Bane dies, kind of. Because he can't feel pain, he doesn't know when to stop. For example, he could have every bone in his body broken but because he can't feel pain, he carries on fighting. So Bane will be essentially beaten to death without him knowing it.

Well that's all I have. Most of this probably isn't true but it does fit in with some of the rumours we've heard. I don't know anything about John Blake, but I'm told his character is a mystery and he has appeared in either BB or TDK before, but he's not telling me who he is. My bet is he's the kid from the narrows in BB. But that's just pure speculation. :yay:

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_krtn70XIyE1qzbbzro1_500.jpg

[kickass]

Would anybody be pissed if that description actually turned out to be true?

[WiseBrook]

The idea that Nolan would be discussing the entire plot with someone during a shoot is slightly far fetched.

[Boom]

Anyone notice the perspective on the new Bane pic RIM posted in the picture thread? :funny: You can complain about camera tricks but they do work!



And don't say he looks crosseyed this time!
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6283/14357297.png

:awesome:

[Travesty]

The idea that Nolan would be discussing the entire plot with someone during a shoot is slightly far fetched.Nope, it's 100% true. The guy loves Nolan, why would he be lying?

[Dr Lee]

never thought he looked cross eyed at all... it was obvious he was staring down at something....

[dark_b]

the movie will not start 8 years ago and then go 8 years in the future. if Gordon would live in Gotham for 8 years when Bane takes over his look would change. everyone would change.

[NolanLover]

Yeah, I have no idea whether it's true or not. Some aspects of it don't seem very likely (i.e the heavy involvement with the LoS) but other parts actully seem like they could happen. I'm intrigued by the Arkham City plotline and it's certainly something none of us expected or guessed.

[rogue_agent]

Ras al Ghul is somewhat similar to the President (the name), when somebody is crowned leader of the LoS he is named Ras al Ghul. Ken Watanebe from BB was Ras al Ghul at the time, and then Henri Ducard inherited it. And if the leader is a woman, she is named Talia al Ghul.

I disagree with this. I think Ken Watanabe's character was the fake Ra's - he was the decoy - this ties into the 'theatricality and deception' theme. "You burnt my house and left me for dead".

[obin_gam]

I would have believed that plot description a little more if it wasnt for the fact that the new Batman game is Arkham City... lol at that "coincident" :P

[Boom]

"Or cheap parlor tricks to conceal your true identity, Ra's."

Watanabe was a decoy. Why is this always debated? The line above tells you all you need to know.

[doobie]

I liked the set ninja pic of the scene that showed Bane tears up Dent's picture and throwing it down in disgust. It would be cool if Bane addresses a crowd of Gotham public and shows them his spy videos of Dent trying to kill Gordon's family, then throws the picture down, stomps on it and spits on it and tells them how dishonorable he was. Then gotham accept Bane as their new role model. He could even praise Batman to them and tell them Batman's sacrifice taking the blame and call himself the new Batman, knowing Bruce is cripple and can't come back to argue.

[doobie]

We should start calling Bane's hideout the BaneCave :awesome:

[Dark Knight]

People are still clinging to this?!? This is the LAST Batman movie with these actors/director and certainly an end to this story. Of course there will be other Batman movies but will be different actors, director, story, etc. I thought everyone knew this by now?



From what I understand, if Nolan wants to film a TDKReturns style film with a mid to late 40's Batman, than Bale would be all for it.

Hence, why they did not want to name this film TDKReturns and went with TDKRises. They wanted to save Returns for the future....potentially. :oldrazz:

[CJ]

But isn't the Dark Knight "returning" at some point in this movie after an 8-year hiatus?

[CherryPopper]

From what I understand, if Nolan wants to film a TDKReturns style film with a mid to late 40's Batman, than Bale would be all for it.

Hence, why they did not want to name this film TDKReturns and went with TDKRises. They wanted to save Returns for the future....potentially. :oldrazz:

LOL! NOlan is NOT coming back.

[herolee10]

Not sure if if this has been asked, let alone discussed yet, but does anyone know if it's been confirmed if the character of Anna Ramirez is coming back?

I mean, granted that 8 years have passed in the film's events, but I'd imagine that her character would pop up somewhere considering that she's the only one outside of Batman/Gordon & Family/Joker to know that Harvey was the one responsible for the deaths of others and not batman.

[Dark Knight]

LOL! NOlan is NOT coming back.


LOL!

We don't know that for certain. IF he does ever come back, it won't be anytime soon that's for sure.

[craigdbfan]

Not sure if if this has been asked, let alone discussed yet, but does anyone know if it's been confirmed if the character of Anna Ramirez is coming back?

I mean, granted that 8 years have passed in the film's events, but I'd imagine that her character would pop up somewhere considering that she's the only one outside of Batman/Gordon & Family/Joker to know that Harvey was the one responsible for the deaths of others and not batman.

It's possible that Bane gets to her in this and gets the information and finishes her off. I mean we definitely know Bane finds out about the entire thing seeing as we know there's a scene where he rips Dents picture in half and is speaking to the public in what I would assume to be Harvey Dent's turn into murderer seeking revenge.

It would be quite the scene. Speculation of course.

[HopeOfTheFuture]

If you look at the top of this photo, you see bright lights up in the right corner. I know this is reaching, but to me it looks like it may be lighting the Batcave laboratory. It definitely doesnt look like lighting from a prison, a dam, or underneath a bridge. It looks to modern and florescent.

just thinking out loud here... :whatever:
On the top in the background, there's a goon with a gun. It's the shot from the teaser in which Bane faces an exhausted Batman.

[Batman jr.]

LOL!

We don't know that for certain. IF he does ever come back, it won't be anytime soon that's for sure.

He does that...

[doobie]

I think its better this is the last Nolan film for my own health. I feel I have spent the last 8 years in suspense for a Nolan Batman film. I can't live like that...At the end of Rises I will be sad, but relieved.

[dark_b]

It's possible that Bane gets to her in this and gets the information and finishes her off. I mean we definitely know Bane finds out about the entire thing seeing as we know there's a scene where he rips Dents picture in half and is speaking to the public in what I would assume to be Harvey Dent's turn into murderer seeking revenge.

It would be quite the scene. Speculation of course.i think he is holding the Dent picture because Blackgate prison is dedicated to Dent.

[Sharkboy]

Nolan has stated that he dosen't have a single thought of any other film down the line when making his current film, in order to make that movie the best he can make at the time. So there's no "held back" film made with the main purpose to promote and set up a future film aka the recent marvel studio films and the avengers, but even when making Batman Begins and The Dark Knight the very real possibility that he was making a trilogy always seemed to loom. With this film, i'm sure as far as Nolan and the cast are concerned this is their final Bat-film, certainly the last one in a long while and I'm certain that sentiment will be reflected in the story. No need to hold back even a little, he's going to go all out and anything goes, that is probably the main point of attraction for me in this film.

[Sharkboy]

i think he is holding the Dent picture because Blackgate prison is dedicated to Dent.

In that case Blackgate was probably constructed in order to house the 500 of so criminals that Harvey successfully convicted in TDK. If bane were to bring Harvey's true nature to light, those convictions wouldn't stick therefore all of them would be set free.

[dark_b]

i dotn think Bane is doing everything by law in TDKR. and how would Bane show all evidence at court? would all the mercs have the weapons in their hand and everyone would listen to Bane? just saying infront of a camera that Dent killed 6 people doesnt just mean that all 500 are free.

[craigdbfan]

In that case Blackgate was probably constructed in order to house the 500 of so criminals that Harvey successfully convicted in TDK. If bane were to bring Harvey's true nature to light, those convictions wouldn't stick therefore all of them would be set free.

This.

[ThePhantasm]

In that case Blackgate was probably constructed in order to house the 500 of so criminals that Harvey successfully convicted in TDK. If bane were to bring Harvey's true nature to light, those convictions wouldn't stick therefore all of them would be set free.

I hadn't thought of that. Great observation! :awesome:

[Sharkboy]

i dotn think Bane is doing everything by law in TDKR. and how would Bane show all evidence at court? would all the mercs have the weapons in their hand and everyone would listen to Bane? just saying infront of a camera that Dent killed 6 people doesnt just mean that all 500 are free.

No but I also don't expect the public to fully believe that Batman killed those people either, most probably will but there is maybe enough naysayers and batman supporters out there that if presented with an alternative they would jump towards it. All it would take is for Bane to get the public's attention and divert it to the fact that Harvey was in fact the man that killed these cops. A smear campaign alone would make those convictions shaky. That's all i got, and from Bane's perspective it's probably the smartest and easiest way to round up 500 men (who all happen to be in the same place) who hate Batman's guts and are willing to take arms with bane against batman.

[dark_b]

No but I also don't expect the public to fully believe that Batman killed those people either, most probably will but there is maybe enough naysayers and batman supporters out there that if presented with an alternative they would jump towards it. All it would take is for Bane to get the public's attention and divert it to the fact that Harvey was in fact the man that killed these cops. A smear campaign alone would make those convictions shaky. That's all i got, and from Bane's perspective it's probably the smartest and easiest way to round up 500 men (who all happen to be in the same place) who hate Batman's guts and are willing to take arms with bane against batman.i find this hard to belive.there is not a single evidence that Dent did this. if there was they would not be chasing Batman. and they destroyed the bat signal. so s.... got real after Batman runs away.

i just think that Bane (a villain) infront of a camera saying that Dent killed 6 people would come out of nowhere for the public. it would take months debating on tv shows and from magazines for people to even understand.
IMO

[Hunter Rider]

A screen cap of the final shot of the movie!

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/6972/demotivationalpostersbaz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/demotivationalpostersbaz.jpg/)

[Sharkboy]

i find this hard to belive.there is not a single evidence that Dent did this. if there was they would not be chasing Batman. and they destroyed the bat signal. so s.... got real after Batman runs away.

i just think that Bane (a villain) infront of a camera saying that Dent killed 6 people would come out of nowhere for the public. it would take months debating on tv shows and from magazines for people to even understand.
IMO

You are seeing this too simply my friend. I don't think Bane will be a villain (traditional sense) in their eyes, well certainly not to some. Remember if he is a member of the LOS, then his aim isn't to cause as much pain and suffering as possible, his final aim should be peace and serenity. Ra's had this aim too but for him he saw the forest for the trees, and thought if he could destroy the city and crush the people in it, then it would rebuild itself in time peacefully. I feel Bane wants to incite a rebellion, tackle the problem at the source (aka it's people) they are probably scared and scattered after the joker went through the city. Bane probably wants the people to rise up against corporations, the police, law, any sort of govering body and he is probably willing to do anything to get there from mass murder to killing politicians.

I am under the impression that by the time he sets those prisoners free he already has the voice of a lot of people, and the support of many, I'm not saying he is going to free those men legitimately, but he is certainly going to get support for doing so, by shifting the publics fear and hatred towards a "corrupt politician" like Harvey Dent.

The way I see the battle between Bane and Batman happening in this film, is apart from their physical encounters, it will be a fight to see who can save gotham, who can appeal to it's people the best. One wants a violent revolution, to take back the city from it's corrupted officials that let them be terrorized and be put in fear by the mob, and crazed clowns. The other wants to inspire good in people and have them rise up against corruption and fear while still maintaining virtue.

Same goal, different ways of going about it.

Or so how i speculate...

[Batman jr.]

A screen cap of the final shot of the movie!

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/6972/demotivationalpostersbaz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/demotivationalpostersbaz.jpg/)

:awesome:

"Batman: 20 years later" by Kevin Smith

:woot::woot::woot:

[doobie]

@Sharkboy - That makes me wonder this. If Joker was Chaos taken to an evil extreme, Bane will be Law and Order taken to an evil extreme, the opposite of Joker.

[The_Raganork]

i find this hard to belive.there is not a single evidence that Dent did this. if there was they would not be chasing Batman. and they destroyed the bat signal. so s.... got real after Batman runs away.

i just think that Bane (a villain) infront of a camera saying that Dent killed 6 people would come out of nowhere for the public. it would take months debating on tv shows and from magazines for people to even understand.
IMO


Actually there is:

First at the 6 people who know Dent killed those people: Gordon, James, Barbara, Babs, Ramirez and Batman.

Then there's the possibility of Maroni and the Bartender having survived their encounters with Dent.

Then there's the lack of evidence that Batman committed them. I'm sure someone could place Batman somewhere during the time of the deaths.

Then there's Dent's gun, which should be missing as many bullets as people he has shot and have his finger prints on them.

Joker probably could assume Dent committed the crimes and may have said so.

So there's enough doubt there to pull out some circumstantial evidence but they'd need someone to get the snowball rolling first.

[doobie]

Also if the leaks are true and Bane was spying on them all the way through TDK, did Bane/LOS men come into contact with Joker spies in the force, were they at odds or working together.

[craigdbfan]

A screen cap of the final shot of the movie!

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/6972/demotivationalpostersbaz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/demotivationalpostersbaz.jpg/)

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/6209/tear.gif

[doobie]

Breaking news...Richard O Brian (host of crystal maze) may play Bane's sidekick the knife-thrower Zombie...source is a dream I had last night.

[Sharkboy]

@Sharkboy - That makes me wonder this. If Joker was Chaos taken to an evil extreme, Bane will be Law and Order taken to an evil extreme, the opposite of Joker.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. It works this way because if Nolan was ever going to follow joker in terms of villainy this would be the best way to do it, as in...don't. There isn't really a bigger personification of evil than the joker, and even with all the arguments that in twisted ways joker was right that only serves to make him more evil. Bane in this way is more of the antagonist rather than straight up villain. He wants the same thing just in ways that Batman opposes, the trick the nolan brothers need to figure out is how to best do that without making people support him and to fear him on screen instead.

The funny thing i realised while i was watching BB the other day is that, Ra's wanted the city to tear itself apart, and he did this by forcefully inducing fear into it's inhabitants so they would tear themselves apart. I think TDKR would start the same way, instead it's joker who has managed to naturally induce fear into the hearts of gotham, i can see them as being paranoid, superstious and scared. Hospitals blowing up, the narrows is still screwed up, tunnels, bridges and ferries rigged with explosives, news anchors getting kidnapped, their beloved politician (who i'd think the city saw in a fashion to MLK or JFK) being murdered, a guy dressing up as a bat killing cops. I mean in real life, you should have seen how people here (in the UK) reacted to the riots in london and birmingham, imagine how unsafe people would feel in gotham city? These are a people that are one push away from tearing themselves apart like Ra's predicted. I'm betting that Bane will exploit this in order for them to fight against the corrupt element of their city. While Batman's more peacefull and virtuous method wouldn't seem of much use to them...untill it's too late.

In terms of the theme of pain, Batman is meditative therapy, finding that inner peace and getting rid of all the bad elements that cause pain. Bane is pure electroshock forcefully drilling out all the bad stuff even at the cost of one's mind and wellness.

Phew....I think too hard about this film. :doh:

[GreyGoose1]

That's an interesting way of looking at it. It works this way because if Nolan was ever going to follow joker in terms of villainy this would be the best way to do it, as in...don't. There isn't really a bigger personification of evil than the joker, and even with all the arguments that in twisted ways joker was right that only serves to make him more evil. Bane in this way is more of the antagonist rather than straight up villain. He wants the same thing just in ways that Batman opposes, the trick the nolan brothers need to figure out is how to best do that without making people support him and to fear him on screen instead.

The funny thing i realised while i was watching BB the other day is that, Ra's wanted the city to tear itself apart, and he did this by forcefully inducing fear into it's inhabitants so they would tear themselves apart. I think TDKR would start the same way, instead it's joker who has managed to naturally induce fear into the hearts of gotham, i can see them as being paranoid, superstious and scared. Hospitals blowing up, the narrows is still screwed up, tunnels, bridges and ferries rigged with explosives, news anchors getting kidnapped, their beloved politician (who i'd think the city saw in a fashion to MLK or JFK) being murdered, a guy dressing up as a bat killing cops. I mean in real life, you should have seen how people here (in the UK) reacted to the riots in london and birmingham, imagine how unsafe people would feel in gotham city? These are a people that are one push away from tearing themselves apart like Ra's predicted. I'm betting that Bane will exploit this in order for them to fight against the corrupt element of their city. While Batman's more peacefull and virtuous method wouldn't seem of much use to them...untill it's too late.

In terms of the theme of pain, Batman is meditative therapy, finding that inner peace and getting rid of all the bad elements that cause pain. Bane is pure electroshock forcefully drilling out all the bad stuff even at the cost of one's mind and wellness.

Phew....I think too hard about this film. :doh:


Agreed

[Nevincer]

Hmm... if Joker is Chaotic Evil and Bane is Lawful Evil, what is Ra's?

[AnneFan]

Hmm... if Joker is Chaotic Evil and Bane is Lawful Evil, what is Ra's?
A mix of the two?

[mackblack01]

That's an interesting way of looking at it. It works this way because if Nolan was ever going to follow joker in terms of villainy this would be the best way to do it, as in...don't. There isn't really a bigger personification of evil than the joker, and even with all the arguments that in twisted ways joker was right that only serves to make him more evil. Bane in this way is more of the antagonist rather than straight up villain. He wants the same thing just in ways that Batman opposes, the trick the nolan brothers need to figure out is how to best do that without making people support him and to fear him on screen instead.

The funny thing i realised while i was watching BB the other day is that, Ra's wanted the city to tear itself apart, and he did this by forcefully inducing fear into it's inhabitants so they would tear themselves apart. I think TDKR would start the same way, instead it's joker who has managed to naturally induce fear into the hearts of gotham, i can see them as being paranoid, superstious and scared. Hospitals blowing up, the narrows is still screwed up, tunnels, bridges and ferries rigged with explosives, news anchors getting kidnapped, their beloved politician (who i'd think the city saw in a fashion to MLK or JFK) being murdered, a guy dressing up as a bat killing cops. I mean in real life, you should have seen how people here (in the UK) reacted to the riots in london and birmingham, imagine how unsafe people would feel in gotham city? These are a people that are one push away from tearing themselves apart like Ra's predicted. I'm betting that Bane will exploit this in order for them to fight against the corrupt element of their city. While Batman's more peacefull and virtuous method wouldn't seem of much use to them...untill it's too late.

In terms of the theme of pain, Batman is meditative therapy, finding that inner peace and getting rid of all the bad elements that cause pain. Bane is pure electroshock forcefully drilling out all the bad stuff even at the cost of one's mind and wellness.

Phew....I think too hard about this film. :doh:
Wow, pretty good analysis Sharkboy.

:up:

[doobie]

yeah top stuff

[Sharkboy]

A mix of the two?

Exactly, Ra's wasn't above letting a whole city duke it out amongst each other to the death in a crumbling city, being old and seasoned would have probably washed away any of the idealism from his heart. Bane probably still thinks people can be saved...even if he has to take his boot to their throats and crush a few of them so they get the point.

[Batman jr.]

That's an interesting way of looking at it. It works this way because if Nolan was ever going to follow joker in terms of villainy this would be the best way to do it, as in...don't. There isn't really a bigger personification of evil than the joker, and even with all the arguments that in twisted ways joker was right that only serves to make him more evil. Bane in this way is more of the antagonist rather than straight up villain. He wants the same thing just in ways that Batman opposes, the trick the nolan brothers need to figure out is how to best do that without making people support him and to fear him on screen instead.

The funny thing i realised while i was watching BB the other day is that, Ra's wanted the city to tear itself apart, and he did this by forcefully inducing fear into it's inhabitants so they would tear themselves apart. I think TDKR would start the same way, instead it's joker who has managed to naturally induce fear into the hearts of gotham, i can see them as being paranoid, superstious and scared. Hospitals blowing up, the narrows is still screwed up, tunnels, bridges and ferries rigged with explosives, news anchors getting kidnapped, their beloved politician (who i'd think the city saw in a fashion to MLK or JFK) being murdered, a guy dressing up as a bat killing cops. I mean in real life, you should have seen how people here (in the UK) reacted to the riots in london and birmingham, imagine how unsafe people would feel in gotham city? These are a people that are one push away from tearing themselves apart like Ra's predicted. I'm betting that Bane will exploit this in order for them to fight against the corrupt element of their city. While Batman's more peacefull and virtuous method wouldn't seem of much use to them...untill it's too late.

In terms of the theme of pain, Batman is meditative therapy, finding that inner peace and getting rid of all the bad elements that cause pain. Bane is pure electroshock forcefully drilling out all the bad stuff even at the cost of one's mind and wellness.

Phew....I think too hard about this film. :doh:


If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely...

[The_Raganork]

Exactly, Ra's wasn't above letting a whole city duke it out amongst each other to the death in a crumbling city, being old and seasoned would have probably washed away any of the idealism from his heart. Bane probably still thinks people can be saved...even if he has to take his boot to their throats and crush a few of them so they get the point.

This almost the exact opposite of Ra's Al Ghul's character.

He had idealism. Gotham was in the way of the ideal state it needed to be.

It could be a prime race horse but instead it was a decadent farce with a broken leg. He wished to destroy it...not to watch it burn, not to prove people are monsters but because in order to fix it he needed to wash the slate clean.

This is no different than the story of the great Flood and Noah's ark. Ra's al Ghul creates a flood wipes Gotham clean and starts anew.


Ra's shares nothing in common with the Joker.

You're mistaking a willingness to let die a philosophical principle and its not.

Lets say you believe in the death penalty and not assisted suicide and I believe in assisted suicide and not the death penalty

Because we both believe in something that leads to death do we believe the same thing? Of course not.

Joker wanted Gotham to tear itself apart just to prove about about human nature but he also gave them a choice. Ra's gave them no choice, he wasn't listening to the idea of better people in Gotham. No one could resist the fear toxin.

So your difference between Joker and Ra's is stark.

Joker was trying to make a point about society and Ra's was trying to REMAKE society through cleansing.

[mackblack01]

No one could resist the fear toxin.

Except for The Joker.

http://images.wikia.com/joker/images/3/37/Joker_vs_Scarecrow.jpg

:awesome:

[MultipleJesuses]

A mix of the two?

Too be honest I think it'll Bane who is a mix of the two and Ra's is the Law and Order extreme only because of what we've heard about Bane's destruction.
Sounds pretty chaotic so far.

[ThePhantasm]

Except for The Joker.

http://images.wikia.com/joker/images/3/37/Joker_vs_Scarecrow.jpg

:awesome:

Is he resisting it there or does that just mean he likes it? Joker laughs at and revels in fear, which is why Batman can't really intimidate him.

[TinkerTailor]

It will probably pan out that Bane takes the more destructive elements of Ra's philosophies to their extreme in TDKR.

[Nevincer]

So I tried to fit the cast of the Batman trilogy into an alignment chart, and this is what I came up with. It's probably not quite accurate, for example Ra's is a very twisted "good" and where I fit him probably isn't in line with the D&D traits that define chaotic good, but I still think it could describe him well. He wanted harmony through chaos, much like Joker wanted madness from it.

Click the spoiler tag to view.



http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8741/batmanalignment.png

[mackblack01]

Is he resisting it there or does that just mean he likes it? Joker laughs at and revels in fear, which is why Batman can't really intimidate him.
He doesn't *like it* in proper sense(he was just sarcastic I think), but the fear toxin, sure, doesn't have any effect on him.

[Brain Damage]

Damn, good job Darkhunt! :up:

[Pagan]

This almost the exact opposite of Ra's Al Ghul's character.

He had idealism. Gotham was in the way of the ideal state it needed to be.

It could be a prime race horse but instead it was a decadent farce with a broken leg. He wished to destroy it...not to watch it burn, not to prove people are monsters but because in order to fix it he needed to wash the slate clean.

This is no different than the story of the great Flood and Noah's ark. Ra's al Ghul creates a flood wipes Gotham clean and starts anew.


Ra's shares nothing in common with the Joker.

You're mistaking a willingness to let die a philosophical principle and its not.

Lets say you believe in the death penalty and not assisted suicide and I believe in assisted suicide and not the death penalty

Because we both believe in something that leads to death do we believe the same thing? Of course not.

Joker wanted Gotham to tear itself apart just to prove about about human nature but he also gave them a choice. Ra's gave them no choice, he wasn't listening to the idea of better people in Gotham. No one could resist the fear toxin.

So your difference between Joker and Ra's is stark.

Joker was trying to make a point about society and Ra's was trying to REMAKE society through cleansing.


exactly. Ra's is like Magneto (in the books) He has this utopian idealism he wants to attain but to do it he thinks he has to destroy everything standing in it's way.
Joker is a nihlist.

[Nave 'Torment']

I love that flow-chart, but I'm afraid I can't agree with it. These characters aren't that static to pin-down.

The Batman, for example, does evolve through the two films. His neutrality in BB is up for debate because he is being 'chaotic' towards every single established view of the law around him, even Rachel's whom he learns so much from. IN TDK he becomes, to an extent, that established "order" in town. I agree with Harvey's "neutral" approach to chaos, but it has a lot more to do with amorality - that there is no true justice. I think even Bruce and Jim learn that by the end (and Rachel becomes the ideal victim, the sacrificed girl, for believing in the possibility of a natural form of justice).

I just remembered how much I loved that cast! :D It was the definitive BATMAN movie for all ages!

[mackblack01]

So I tried to fit the cast of the Batman trilogy into an alignment chart, and this is what I came up with. It's probably not quite accurate, for example Ra's is a very twisted "good" and where I fit him probably isn't in line with the D&D traits that define chaotic good, but I still think it could describe him well. He wanted harmony through chaos, much like Joker wanted madness from it.

Click the spoiler tag to view.



http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8741/batmanalignment.png
Cool. Can't wait to get some consistant info about Catwoman.

[film4life]

So I tried to fit the cast of the Batman trilogy into an alignment chart, and this is what I came up with. It's probably not quite accurate, for example Ra's is a very twisted "good" and where I fit him probably isn't in line with the D&D traits that define chaotic good, but I still think it could describe him well. He wanted harmony through chaos, much like Joker wanted madness from it.

Click the spoiler tag to view.



http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8741/batmanalignment.png
Great job!

[The_Raganork]

Cool. Can't wait to get some consistant info about Catwoman.

i suspect as we go along that role will be filled with info but we'll end up being just as perplexed by her in the long run.

It is in the nature of her character.

I expect to know a lot about Selina at some point but it'll only raise more questions.

On July 30th I think we'll be debating what she was really doing in the film

[Pagan]

Cool. Can't wait to get some consistant info about Catwoman.

I'd put catwoman in with bats as chaotic good.
they both break the law. but they both help people too.
like robin hood. although they both have selfish motivations.
Selena steals and keeps a lot of it for herself.
Bruce does a lot of it out of pure revenge. To sate his inner vengeance demon.

[Nave 'Torment']

This, is the most importaant function of the Hype. It is one that we've performed for centuries. CBM must be ignored.

Hehehe... I'm not a forum member there but it sounds like crazy to me. Though to be fair, they do have a review section, and the Hype's officially released reviews are mediocre at best :(

The forums, on the other hand, would have you wanting to come back again and again.

And it says something about our collective love of the genre when some of the first results on Google Images related to these characters often have a pic from these forums.

The two of you can't fight because I like you both.

So stop.

:oldrazz: I am going to use that quote a lot from now on :D

There was a Foley in No Man's Land. If my memory serves me well, he used to get into heated arguments with Gordon on the need to use lethal force. It was entertaining to read those arguments.

Oh, yeah. He ended up leading his own splinter group.

Yeah, damn Foley was a badass in NML! I hope it's him -- he was the only one voicing against Gordon... and if memory preserves the Joker had his way with him in the end. His militancy could never go beyond Gotham's NML days, and if TDKR does take ideas from that Gotham then seeing him would be all kinds of awesome.

He had a shaky alliance with the Huntress, which could easily be replaced by Catwoman as well.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. It works this way because if Nolan was ever going to follow joker in terms of villainy this would be the best way to do it, as in...don't. There isn't really a bigger personification of evil than the joker, and even with all the arguments that in twisted ways joker was right that only serves to make him more evil. Bane in this way is more of the antagonist rather than straight up villain. He wants the same thing just in ways that Batman opposes, the trick the nolan brothers need to figure out is how to best do that without making people support him and to fear him on screen instead.

The funny thing i realised while i was watching BB the other day is that, Ra's wanted the city to tear itself apart, and he did this by forcefully inducing fear into it's inhabitants so they would tear themselves apart. I think TDKR would start the same way, instead it's joker who has managed to naturally induce fear into the hearts of gotham, i can see them as being paranoid, superstious and scared. Hospitals blowing up, the narrows is still screwed up, tunnels, bridges and ferries rigged with explosives, news anchors getting kidnapped, their beloved politician (who i'd think the city saw in a fashion to MLK or JFK) being murdered, a guy dressing up as a bat killing cops. I mean in real life, you should have seen how people here (in the UK) reacted to the riots in london and birmingham, imagine how unsafe people would feel in gotham city? These are a people that are one push away from tearing themselves apart like Ra's predicted. I'm betting that Bane will exploit this in order for them to fight against the corrupt element of their city. While Batman's more peacefull and virtuous method wouldn't seem of much use to them...untill it's too late.

In terms of the theme of pain, Batman is meditative therapy, finding that inner peace and getting rid of all the bad elements that cause pain. Bane is pure electroshock forcefully drilling out all the bad stuff even at the cost of one's mind and wellness.

Phew....I think too hard about this film. :doh:

Excellent post! I think it'd be amazing to see Bruce realising that he has had a hand in gradually doing what Ra's had set out to do in Begins over the course of Bruce's own career as Batman. Retrospection makes for great characterisation! :D

Hmm... if Joker is Chaotic Evil and Bane is Lawful Evil, what is Ra's?

I think Ra's is more inclined to be "lawful evil", since he had that big counter-order in mind for the perfect world. Bane would be, judging from what we know so far, the sort of guy who uses chaos to bring justice. In your diagram I'd say he would trade places with Ra's. But that's just me.

Exactly, Ra's wasn't above letting a whole city duke it out amongst each other to the death in a crumbling city, being old and seasoned would have probably washed away any of the idealism from his heart. Bane probably still thinks people can be saved...even if he has to take his boot to their throats and crush a few of them so they get the point.

This almost the exact opposite of Ra's Al Ghul's character.

He had idealism. Gotham was in the way of the ideal state it needed to be.

It could be a prime race horse but instead it was a decadent farce with a broken leg. He wished to destroy it...not to watch it burn, not to prove people are monsters but because in order to fix it he needed to wash the slate clean.

This is no different than the story of the great Flood and Noah's ark. Ra's al Ghul creates a flood wipes Gotham clean and starts anew.

Ra's shares nothing in common with the Joker.

You're mistaking a willingness to let die a philosophical principle and its not.

Joker was trying to make a point about society and Ra's was trying to REMAKE society through cleansing.

I think both those points are good ones. Ra's is, indeed, more of a revivalist. He believes that an entire race could be sacrificed so that a new sense of order can arise from it. He's the sort of megalomania you expect a superhero to encounter in the grand finale. But what makes him so powerful is that he actually has a point -- one that has echoes with the concept of a saviour or a messiah. The flood analogy is perfect in this regard. But his ideas of justice is what make him a more matured character: Justice is Balance. How can you objectively dispute that?

I think Sharkboy's right in the sense that for Ra's there is no room for redemption once you've crossed that line. And maybe Bane believes that, at least for Gotham at large. Maybe Bane sees Batman's view of justice to be just as outdated and un-synchronized with Gotham as Bruce did with his old mentor. It'd place Bane on a similar footing with Azrael to be honest.

Both would be incredibly different from the Joker, who doesn't acknowledge the possibility of order or morality at all. He's right in a sense, but his indulgence with the meaninglessness of the world makes him nothing more than an immature **** who puts all the blames on society rather than himself. And then laughs at that society's horror.

What I like about megalomania-Ra's is that this was basically who he was in the comics all the time. Bane, from that angle, would probably continue the 'survival of the fittest' doctrine, but if he's really a saviour he's probably believe in that 'fittest' to be something that you are hardened by. Maybe he sees that in Batman, maybe he sees that Gotham is the only existing city that has hardened itself with a superhero who is present, and he knows that it's time for said superhero to step down.

Ultimately I think it all boils down to that notion of physicality that Nolan seems to want to embrace this time around. The Joker was a purely psychological demon who was "concerned" over Gotham's soul -- he could fight Batman on a symbolic level. Maybe Bane is nowhere near that, and represents, instead, the sort of tangible antagonism that you face all the time. If that's indeed the case, it gives an aging Bruce a more significant role to play out -- Bane could represent all of that.

[rogue_agent]

Hehehe... I'm not a forum member there but it sounds like crazy to me. Though to be fair, they do have a review section, and the Hype's officially released reviews are mediocre at best :(

The forums, on the other hand, would have you wanting to come back again and again.

And it says something about our collective love of the genre when some of the first results on Google Images related to these characters often have a pic from these forums.

Oh, I'm sure the forums are addictive. I just didn't like it when they called the Hype as being notoriously unreliable at times. To be honest, though, I think it that post was created by a user - it wasn't one of the main people of CBM. But yeah, it really does say something about how we all love this genre to bits.

Yeah, damn Foley was a badass in NML! I hope it's him -- he was the only one voicing against Gordon... and if memory preserves the Joker had his way with him in the end. His militancy could never go beyond Gotham's NML days, and if TDKR does take ideas from that Gotham then seeing him would be all kinds of awesome.

He had a shaky alliance with the Huntress, which could easily be replaced by Catwoman as well.

Yeah, I found him really entertaining. He could be a potential influence, I hope. I liked how Joker took him down by dressing Foley's own men as clowns/Joker copycats - similar to the hostages being dressed as clowns in TDK.

[Léo Ho Tep]

Foley was a crazy one! Even Huntress didn't how to deal with him. Only the joker knew how to spank him like he deserved!