6 Minutes of TDKR footage attached to Mission Impossible 4! - - - Part 12

[Chris M]

Thanks mate :highfive:

[Avengers-Report]

OK do we have a transcript of the dialog yet cause I just watched it and have NO clue what they were saying.

Looked awesome though

It's a lot easier to understand Bane AFTER you know what he's saying...haha

[Bruce_Begins]

I had no trouble understanding what Bane was saying.

[TDK Joker]

It's a lot easier to understand Bane AFTER you know what he's saying...haha

That's true! I just read the transcript posted by spanish39 and what I read definitely fits with what I saw at IMAX.
When I see it again on Friday, I'm sure I'll understand him perfectly!

[JAK®]

It's a lot easier to understand Bane AFTER you know what he's saying...haha

This is probably the main reason the fans don't have a problem. I guarantee most people here saw the transcribed footage before they saw it in IMAX.

[papie]

This is probably the main reason the fans don't have a problem. I guarantee most people here saw the transcribed footage before they saw it in IMAX.

Hmm, I once saw on National Geographic that the brain comprehends warbled footage once it knows what it's supposed to be. I did not have a problem with Bane's voice but I read the transcription; people who read it beforehand can't really judge the voice.

[Name-That-movie]

Here's a link to the transcript only:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/268422/20111216/dark-knight-rises-prologue-leaked-clip-video.htm

Haha! They used the transcript I posted in this very thread and credited Blemish. Awesome.

[munchie64]

Quickly someone who hasn't read the script find the prologue!

[lambish]

There's an even better copy out there apparently.

where? :D (EDIT:that better? :P)

[lambish]

Hmm, I once saw on National Geographic that the brain comprehends warbled footage once it knows what it's supposed to be. I did not have a problem with Bane's voice but I read the transcription; people who read it beforehand can't really judge the voice.

i'm lucky enough to watch it in the theatre tomorrow, though I would like to dl a copy to watch 130857 times over the next few months :P i've resisted watching the bane bits of the ones I have got, only watching the tease at the end and gordon's speech (i wish it were longer, but I understand the need to emphasise the 'inspire us' bit)

[*Whiplash*]

Lambish, you might want to edit that post asking for a link.

That kinda talk ain't allowed here.

[DOO BEE]

after seeing the prologue at imax
when the dude says "has the fire started"
i would have sworn Bane replied with "apparently"
which was slightly funny and badass to me

than i read the transcripts and saw he said "the fire rises"
and i now hear that...

[Huelestaki]

Why couldn't they just bring another dead body to the plane so it could pose as the henchman that had to stay on the plane and die??? I know i know to show the loyalty to Bane but come on :whatever: do we need to bring back memories of suicide henchmen to America???

[munchie64]

Why couldn't they just bring another dead body to the plane so it could pose as the henchman that had to stay on the plane and die??? I know i know to show the loyalty to Bane but come on :whatever: do we need to bring back memories of suicide henchmen to America???
It's to portray a most likely important plot aspect about Bane and his henchmen.

[The_Raganork]

Or because there was no indication that the CIA agent would put only one of them on the manifest before they were told

[Van Petrol]

Both of Bane's henchman stayed on the plane. Three boarded it, including Bane. The third who was beating the man in the bodybags chest during the DNA transfusion scene also stayed on board.

[The_Raganork]

No, he repelled out before Bane, its a little weird cause you see them preparing to leave and then they're kind of gone

[Van Petrol]

Doesn't look like that at all. If you can get the chance to see it again, as Bane the doctor and the two henchmen that came in rapell out of the plane, you see the henchman I mentioned hide behind one of the seats and seemingly bracing/preparing himself for the crash.

[TinkerTailor]

Why couldn't they just bring another dead body to the plane so it could pose as the henchman that had to stay on the plane and die??? I know i know to show the loyalty to Bane but come on :whatever: do we need to bring back memories of suicide henchmen to America???

Are we meant to assume that Bane and his men have a whole freezer full of dead bodies on their plane ready to be used in every eventuality? It was a snap judgement made by Bane that exhibits his tactical awareness and his men's devotion to the cause.

[The_Raganork]

I remember seeing him hooking himself up as the chaos ensued.

[Nevincer]

Why couldn't they just bring another dead body to the plane so it could pose as the henchman that had to stay on the plane and die??? I know i know to show the loyalty to Bane but come on :whatever: do we need to bring back memories of suicide henchmen to America???
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lho141JVLC1qam81qo1_500.jpg
Yes.

[Van Petrol]

I remember seeing him hooking himself up as the chaos ensued.

I can't recall that. But as the 4 I mentioned are *ahem* rising (no pun intended :D), he looks to just hide beind one of the seats on the plane.

[munchie64]

Or because there was no indication that the CIA agent would put only one of them on the manifest before they were told
Oh yeah... that too.

[sly]

do we need to bring back memories of suicide henchmen to America???


That's pretty silly and overly sensitive. If Nolan was that bad he would've taken The Joker out of the body bag and not included one of the best scenes in TDK. But he didn't. And most people can live their lives without looking for things to offend them.

[Nevincer]

That's pretty silly and overly sensitive. If Nolan was that bad he would've taken The Joker out of the body bag and not included one of the best scenes in TDK. But he didn't. And most people can live their lives without looking for things to offend them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhexjvwA6Q1qadi39o1_500.gif

[Pagan]

I have to say that there are a lot of plot holes in just the prologue though.
1. there's no way the CIA let's anyone on the plane without I.D.'ing them first and checking with command to tell them they are bringing more prisoners.

2. Just putting a little bit of Pavel's blood in the corpse will not confuse forensics. They will see that there are 2 different dna types there.

3. any investigation of the crash will show that the hull was cut and there are bullet holes in it. not to mention the bolts that were fired into it for the cables. they would have to know that something fishy went on. which would make them really investigate the remains of the supposed Pavel corpse.


I guess we're not supposed to overthink it.

[ggghhh]

not to mention the bolts that were fired into it for the cables.

The bolts are detonated.
I can't really argue with the rest of it, however.

[Nevincer]

I have to say that there are a lot of plot holes in just the prologue though.
1. there's no way the CIA let's anyone on the plane without I.D.'ing them first and checking with command to tell them they are bringing more prisoners.

2. Just putting a little bit of Pavel's blood in the corpse will not confuse forensics. They will see that there are 2 different dna types there.

3. any investigation of the crash will show that the hull was cut and there are bullet holes in it. not to mention the bolts that were fired into it for the cables. they would have to know that something fishy went on. which would make them really investigate the remains of the supposed Pavel corpse.


I guess we're not supposed to overthink it.
Yeah, it's a shame Nolan overlooked those two things but hey... guess it was that or throwing away an awesome scene. Maybe Nolan's Gotham is set in an alternate universe where forensics aren't very advanced :oldrazz:

[ggghhh]

Yeah, it's a shame Nolan overlooked those two things but hey... guess it was that or throwing away an awesome scene. Maybe Nolan's Gotham is set in an alternate universe where forensics aren't very advanced :oldrazz:

Well I assume it's meant to be in a country where the Americans aren't supposed to be anyway, so they might not be able to find a good forensic report, but they still took the trouble of using Pavel's double and one of Bane's men, hmm.

[The_Raganork]

That fire behind the CIA guy could have been a skirmish with some locals. I can't imagine that it would just be there for ambiance.

[munchie64]

I have to say that there are a lot of plot holes in just the prologue though.
1. there's no way the CIA let's anyone on the plane without I.D.'ing them first and checking with command to tell them they are bringing more prisoners.

The other two are valid, but didn't the guy call in and was told to kill all but one? That's why Bane made that guy stay. Or am I wrong?

[*Whiplash*]

3. any investigation of the crash will show that the hull was cut and there are bullet holes in it. not to mention the bolts that were fired into it for the cables. they would have to know that something fishy went on.

I guess we're not supposed to overthink it.

The plane crashed and the tail is missing so obviously something fishy was going on! Lol.

[RachelDawes]

Well I assume it's meant to be in a country where the Americans aren't supposed to be anyway, so they might not be able to find a good forensic report, but they still took the trouble of using Pavel's double and one of Bane's men, hmm.

The CIA could send in a special task force to retrieve the bodies but wouldn't have time to investigate the rest of the crash.

[ggghhh]

That fire behind the CIA guy could have been a skirmish with some locals. I can't imagine that it would just be there for ambiance.

Yep, I think they went a bit overboard, remember when we thought this was a plane crash?


http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6262/devastationh.jpg

[Syncope]

I have to say that there are a lot of plot holes in just the prologue though.
1. there's no way the CIA let's anyone on the plane without I.D.'ing them first and checking with command to tell them they are bringing more prisoners.

2. Just putting a little bit of Pavel's blood in the corpse will not confuse forensics. They will see that there are 2 different dna types there.

3. any investigation of the crash will show that the hull was cut and there are bullet holes in it. not to mention the bolts that were fired into it for the cables. they would have to know that something fishy went on. which would make them really investigate the remains of the supposed Pavel corpse.


I guess we're not supposed to overthink it.
There are plot holes in most movies. If all movies followed complete human law, they wouldn't be half as entertaining.

[paladinryan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

[munchie64]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief
:applaud

[RachelDawes]

The other two are valid, but didn't the guy call in and was told to kill all but one? That's why Bane made that guy stay. Or am I wrong?

He wasn't told to kill all but one. He called HQ and told them that he only had one prisoner.

[munchie64]

He wasn't told to kill all but one. He called HQ and told them that he only had one prisoner.
Ahhh ok. He still called it in though.

[MessenjahMatt]

Nah, he called in all 3. He was just bluffing them, since he didn't actually kill any of them and never planned too. He planned on bringing all 3 back.

[rogue_agent]

I wish I never saw Josh Stewart's set pics. :(

[RachelDawes]

Nah, he called in all 3. He was just bluffing them, since he didn't actually kill any of them and never planned too. He planned on bringing all 3 back.

So I assume the other two mercs who were with Bane stayed on the plane when it crashed.

[TinkerTailor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

Thank you.

[Soapy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

Here's another: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool

[Indrid Cold]

Yeah, it's a shame Nolan overlooked those two things but hey... guess it was that or throwing away an awesome scene. Maybe Nolan's Gotham is set in an alternate universe where forensics aren't very advanced :oldrazz:

Hence why Batman is a BAWSS! You have to look at these details as not being the heart of the film, just devices to keep you informed of what is possibly going to happen next.

[ggghhh]

So I assume the other two mercs who were with Bane stayed on the plane when it crashed.

No the other guy leaves I think. It sounds like a bluff but Bane seems to go with it, maybe he just didn't like that guy. :csad:

[The_Raganork]

Nah, he called in all 3. He was just bluffing them, since he didn't actually kill any of them and never planned too. He planned on bringing all 3 back.

There's really no indicator of that and the dialogue from Bane suggest that the CIA agent wasn't bluffing.

Sure he was bluffing about killing them then but if he shot all three and neither of them talked it wouldn't have done him any good. Its more prudent to believe that once he got his info he would have killed them anyway.

Otherwise it makes Bane's statement and the merc's death totally pointless, and I don't see why anyone would write it so that that merc's death was avoidable.

[Name-That-movie]

Also with the blood being put into the body. Yes, that little blood isn't going to fool anyone, if the body is intact in the wreckage. however the more likely thing to happen upon impact and explosion there is just going to be parts and goo. When they try and run tests there going to find the DNA of the two pilots, CIA guy, his three or so guys the Dr and the followers. There isn't going to be any intact bodys in the wreckage.

[Lobster Charlie]

Just saw the prologue in front of Mission Impossible : Ghost Protocol, on IMAX. Spoilers and stuff coming right up.

What I liked:

-IMAX always looks good. The picture quality was amazing.

-I'm really digging the soundtrack. This one sounded like the music that goes with the chanting we've heard so far in all the teasers and what not.

-Bane looked pretty cool.


What I wasn't really feeling:

-The set-up felt kind of flat and boring. I felt absolutely not tension whatsoever in the entire six minute prologue.

-The whole plane-gone-vertical thing and the effect it had on the folks inside? Felt a lot like INCEPTION. It looked cool, but it looked familiar.

-The whole Bane-ties-himself-to-that-guy and rides the cable to the plane? Yeah, TDK. (I'm sure this is intentional, since Bane seems to be a reflection of Batman in a lot of ways..but still. As a visual, I've seen it before, so it didn't excite me.)

-Couldn't make out half of what Bane was saying. (yes, it's true. they'd better fix this.)


Overall? I'm kinda "meh" about the whole thing. I found the TDK one to be at least more interesting. I did like what I saw out of the montage of clips that played after the prologue, so I'm still excited for the film.

[JL Unlimited]

Nah, he called in all 3. He was just bluffing them, since he didn't actually kill any of them and never planned too. He planned on bringing all 3 back.

In the leaked script pages I read, if real, the CIA guy actually shoots the first guy in the head and lets him slump and fall out of the airplane so I don't think he was bluffing.

Nolan probably had to scale back the violence for the PG13 rating like how in TDK he had to change the knife holding the Joker card on the fake Batman to a safety pin.

[Excelsior.]

Yes. It is not as enchantingly stand alone piece of mini-movie like the TDK prologue—which had it's own beginning, middle and end. That prologue's money shot, the demonic mug of the Joker himself, is just too hard to top.

This one does feel a bit empty; which I'm sure will be better when seen under the wider context of the rest of the film. Hence why it is not as gloriously stand alone as the TDK prologue.

[Anita18]

Yay quote is back! :woot:

There's really no indicator of that and the dialogue from Bane suggest that the CIA agent wasn't bluffing.

Sure he was bluffing about killing them then but if he shot all three and neither of them talked it wouldn't have done him any good. Its more prudent to believe that once he got his info he would have killed them anyway.

Otherwise it makes Bane's statement and the merc's death totally pointless, and I don't see why anyone would write it so that that merc's death was avoidable.
It's just like Bane himself was doing - he wanted to get the information he wanted, and then the CIA dudes were gonna die. :hehe: It's not that far-fetched to determine that the CIA guy was gonna keep those guys alive until he got what he wanted. And then throw everybody out of the plane.

[lime]

I have a question about the prologue:

Why did Bane made that blood transfusion on the plane? Or what the hell was all that about? I did not get that?

[Silver Souper]

My two cents, all. I saw it on a 5-story (or so) imax screen at pacific science center in Seattle. Overall, I was underwhelmed. I don't want to take away for anyone thrilled by the prologue, I'm happy for you. Aside from some gorgeous scenery, I found it to be less of a spectacle than TDK's opening, more chaotic and just generally not that thrilling. Bane was fine, love the voice, but yes hard to understand and not terribly frightening (yet). He seemed too small in several shots, and I've never been one to complain about his size yet. It reminded me of Cliffhanger, Air Force One, and of course- the skyhook in TDK which I realize may be a plot point later. At the end, people barely clapped, it was hesitant and delayed like people were thinking "is that all?" And I have to say again, I struggle through the Nolan brother's on the nose, obvious, and two-dimentional dialogue. Our boy Carcetti from The Wire was miscast, IMO.

still looking forward to the trailer, and film of course, but for me I found Mission Impossible 4 actually made far more of an impression (especially that riveting sky scraper sequence).

[Name-That-movie]

I have a question about the prologue:

Why did Bane made that blood transfusion on the plane? Or what the hell was all that about? I did not get that?

Read my post 5 above yours and it explains it.

[Silver Souper]

I have to say that there are a lot of plot holes in just the prologue though.
1. there's no way the CIA let's anyone on the plane without I.D.'ing them first and checking with command to tell them they are bringing more prisoners.

2. Just putting a little bit of Pavel's blood in the corpse will not confuse forensics. They will see that there are 2 different dna types there.

3. any investigation of the crash will show that the hull was cut and there are bullet holes in it. not to mention the bolts that were fired into it for

I guess we're not supposed to overthink it.

the cables. they would have to know that something fishy went on. which would make them really investigate the remains of the supposed Pavel corpse.


Dude, totally. It just didn't really work, as a scene.

[RachelDawes]

the cables. they would have to know that something fishy went on. which would make them really investigate the remains of the supposed Pavel corpse.


Dude, totally. It just didn't really work, as a scene.

Assuming the CIA is allowed to even investigate the crash site. If the plane went down in an unfriendly country they probably won't have time to do much more than grab the bodies and run, if that.

[Superhero 101]

Just came back and thkugh Rhea footage is intwrestjng I along with most of Rhea audience could not understand what baneful wS trying to say after he says "it would be very painful"

Liked the little montage at the end

[Name-That-movie]

Just came back and thkugh Rhea footage is intwrestjng I along with most of Rhea audience could not understand what baneful wS trying to say after he says "it would be very painful"

Liked the little montage at the end

I'm sorry, but what?

[Bats123]

I'm sorry, but what?

Its ok, that guy is mentally challenged.....................maybe, i dont know.

[Dark Donnie]

Just saw Mission Impossible and it only had the trailer.

[CelticPredator]

^ Digital IMAX then. How big is your screen?

[wikum]

hi guys, sorry if this has been answered already, but i was just wondering if someone could clear this up.

in the prologue, when bane breaks out of his handcuffs, what happens to the other two hostages? i think the masked green t shirt guy is the one that bane tells "they'll expect one of us in the wreckage brother"...correct? what happens to the other one? and if they both also escaped their handcuffs, how do they help bane during the whole scene? it all moves so fast i couldn't really tell.

[CelticPredator]

Probably the same thing that happend to the blood on the Bank Mananger, and the Green in the Joker's hair in TDK's Prolouge.

Magic.

[*Whiplash*]

Let's not start the nit-picking.

[Syncope]

Just saw Mission Impossible and it only had the trailer.
Not a bad consolation, I suppose.

[CelticPredator]

Let's not start the nit-picking.
That's called continuty errors. And they're very in your face in TDK.

[Syncope]

Probably the same thing that happend to the blood on the Bank Mananger, and the Green in the Joker's hair in TDK's Prolouge.

Magic.
That was a pearler.

You could see what they were trying to do. If they showed green in his hair from the start it would have been obvious who The Joker was.

Insulting the audiences intelligence is always a reliable back-up.

[CelticPredator]

Haha.

They should've just had his hair brown, or had a few other people's hair green.

[Syncope]

Haha.

They should've just had his hair brown, or had a few other people's hair green.
Or maybe just had masks that covered their entire head.

[Lasirius]

The green on Joker's hair was done intentionally. It showed he was "turning" into the Joker as the scene progressed. I read this or heard it from Nolan, I think but I could be wrong.

[Syncope]

The green on Joker's hair was done intentionally. It showed he was "turning" into the Joker as the scene progressed. I read this or heard it from Nolan, I think but I could be wrong.
If anyone's going to bend the laws of physics, Nolan will.

[CelticPredator]

Funny how that works. But if anyone else bends the rules...

[QueenChaos]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

Here's another: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool

:up::up:

This.
Though if we want, we can likely work out suitable enough explanations.

[Chris M]

hi guys, sorry if this has been answered already, but i was just wondering if someone could clear this up.

in the prologue, when bane breaks out of his handcuffs, what happens to the other two hostages? i think the masked green t shirt guy is the one that bane tells "they'll expect one of us in the wreckage brother"...correct? what happens to the other one? and if they both also escaped their handcuffs, how do they help bane during the whole scene? it all moves so fast i couldn't really tell.

One was shot and thrown out of the plane. The other stayed behind to die in the crash since the CIA agent let Langley know that he had one prisioner. I guess Bane wan'st to keep them guessing about his resources and doesn't want to declare he's capable of highjacking a fully armed CIA plane mid flight.

[sqwhale]

One was shot and thrown out of the plane. The other stayed behind to die in the crash since the CIA agent let Langley know that he had one prisioner. I guess Bane wan'st to keep them guessing about his resources and doesn't want to decalre he's capable of bringing down a CIA plane.
No one was shot and thrown out. CIA guy was bluffing to get them to talk.

[DaveMoral]

No one was shot and thrown out. CIA guy was bluffing to get them to talk.

Oddly enough, doesn't Littlefinger say "he didn't fly too well" after shooting and apparently not tossing him out?

[CelticPredator]

^ He does. I have no idea what that was...

And then he DID shoot someone. Bane said it.

[TDKR2012]

On the script pages leak of the Prologue, the last page clearly shows EXT. GOTHAM so we know the immediate scene after the prologue is a shot of Gotham.!!! And i believe "The Dark Knight theme" plays,

*ALSO, It confirms the location is set in Africa

From MovieWeb.com
http://c181321.r21.cf0.rackcdn.com/PH6t5tH4b6ow8e_1_m.jpg

http://www.movieweb.com/movie/the-dark-knight-rises/PGPzpInbkBMxTR/HHUI4M68gPqc1PP

[sqwhale]

Oddly enough, doesn't Littlefinger say "he didn't fly too well" after shooting and apparently not tossing him out?
saying it aloud to attempt to scare the other two prisoners.

[CapedCrusader14]

saying it aloud to attempt to scare the other two prisoners.

Ah! That makes sense now.

[sqwhale]

^ He does. I have no idea what that was...

And then he DID shoot someone. Bane said it.
You guys completely missed a lot what was going on. Bane was calling his bluff. "Perhaps he is wondering why you would shoot a man before throwing him off of a plane?" Saying you wouldn't shoot him, you would just toss him off a plane.

[Name-That-movie]

^ He does. I have no idea what that was...

And then he DID shoot someone. Bane said it.

CIA never shoots anyone, he shoots out of the plane then says "he didn't fly so well" then motions for the guy to get pulled back in. The other two are hooded so they wouldn't know if the guy was shot and thrown out. He was trying to scare them.

Secondly, the other captive gets off the plane with the two guys in black tactical gear, leaving the one to an the fall guy. No pun intended.

[Name-That-movie]

On the script pages leak of the Prologue, the last page clearly shows EXT. GOTHAM so we know the immediate scene after the prologue is a shot of Gotham.!!! And i believe "The Dark Knight theme" plays,

From MovieWeb.com
http://c181321.r21.cf0.rackcdn.com/PH6t5tH4b6ow8e_1_m.jpg

http://www.movieweb.com/movie/the-dark-knight-rises/PGPzpInbkBMxTR/HHUI4M68gPqc1PP

And I'm fairly certain this is fake and was typed up by someone after the fact. It's a little to convenient that this leaks. Who knows, just my thoughts.

[wikum]

CIA never shoots anyone, he shoots out of the plane then says "he didn't fly so well" then motions for the guy to get pulled back in. The other two are hooded so they wouldn't know if the guy was shot and thrown out. He was trying to scare them.

Secondly, the other captive gets off the plane with the two guys in black tactical gear, leaving the one to an the fall guy. No pun intended.

which is why bane say's 'or perhaps he's wondering why someone would shoot a man, before throwing him out of a plane', because even though bane can't see what's going on, he can tell cia douche is bluffing, which just shows how much of a boss bane actually is.

[kvz5]

And I'm fairly certain this is fake and was typed up by someone after the fact. It's a little to convenient that this leaks. Who knows, just my thoughts.

Agreed.

[Crazy Quilt]

which is why bane say's 'or perhaps he's wondering why someone would shoot a man, before throwing him out of a plane', because even though bane can't see what's going on, he can tell cia douche is bluffing, which just shows how much of a boss bane actually is.

I laughed out loud at that part. :woot:

What the hell is the threat in holding a gun to someone's head when you've already told them you're going to toss them out of the airplane if they don't talk? That really was stupid on the agent's part.

[Syncope]

It probably will cut straight to Gotham.

And that script is still fake.

[Sharkboy]

I laughed out loud at that part. :woot:

What the hell is the threat in holding a gun to someone's head when you've already told them you're going to toss them out of the airplane if they don't talk? That really was stupid on the agent's part.

I guess he can't replicate the sound of throwing someone out the plane door well enough to seemingly scare the others to talk. Unbeknownst to the CIA douche, these aren't your run of the mill terrorists and Bane quickly points out the illogical nature of using a gun. It's just to show the audience that Bane is not just some dumb brute.

[Nevincer]

Yeah, I had a feeling that script was fake.

[The_Raganork]

So much obvious stuff from the prologue has to be explained to people...Its kind of shocking

[Nevincer]

So much obvious stuff from the prologue has to be explained to people...Its kind of shocking
Hey, give them a break... this is the same general audience that couldn't understand why Batman changed his voice when the first film launched.

[Name-That-movie]

So much obvious stuff from the prologue has to be explained to people...Its kind of shocking

I agree, it's kinda mind numbing. And it's the same stuff over and over. I understand if you don't get it, but do some quick research and your questions will be answered.

Also the people that argue stuff that is wrong, ie people who don't think its Bruce that ask what it means in the trailer.

[The_Raganork]

Where are all the "less exposition" people now?

They need to read through the last few days of post

[wikum]

p.s i hope aiden gillen is listed in the credits as cia douche.

[Nevincer]

Where are all the "less exposition" people now?

They need to read through the last few days of post
Hahaha.

[CapedCrusader14]

The reason why I needed some explaining for that scene was because the prologue went by so fast at IMAX :p

Bane was perfectly understandable though.

[Travesty]

Where are all the "less exposition" people now?

They need to read through the last few days of post
What exactly are you talking about? Most people I see asking questions, are the ones wanting to know what the blood transfusion was for, because quite frankly, it doesn't really make sense, regardless if there's an overabundance of exposition(which there isn't as far as the transfusion goes). It's an overall silly premise to begin with, one in which has to be glossed over, but at the same time, just doesn't make sense.

[Sharkboy]

What exactly are you talking about? Most people I see asking questions, are the ones wanting to know what the blood transfusion was for, because quite frankly, it doesn't really make sense, regardless if there's an overabundance of exposition(which there isn't as far as the transfusion goes). It's an overall silly premise to begin with, one in which has to be glossed over, but at the same time, just doesn't make sense.

I thought it was pretty cool once someone helped me realise what it was for. A mid air transfusion, kinda shows the precision and professionalism of Bane and his team.

[The_Raganork]

What exactly are you talking about? Most people I see asking questions, are the ones wanting to know what the blood transfusion was for, because quite frankly, it doesn't really make sense, regardless if there's an overabundance of exposition(which there isn't as far as the transfusion goes). It's an overall silly premise to begin with, one in which has to be glossed over, but at the same time, just doesn't make sense.


The moment I saw the prologue i got what the transfusion was for.

But this i can understand being confusing if not explained.

However when I see a plethora of people inquiring:

"Did the CIA Guy throw someone out of the plane?"

"Why did that guy stay behind?"

"Why do you think Bane said 'for you'?"

It surprises me because these seem to be fairly obvious things from the prologue. The last few days people have been saying Nolan's films have too much exposition but, when you don't explain bluntly that the CIA guy was bluffing a large section of people seem to miss out on it.

Its strange, to me.

[jnmx2000]

so, was the prologue for one night or will it be played in front of the IMAX MI4 film for it's whole run? I wanted to see it but not sure if I should go out of my way to see MI4 in Imax for the prologue.

[Baneis8feettall]

p.s i hope aiden gillen is listed in the credits as cia douche.

or as CIA's littlefinger :woot:

[rogue_agent]

What exactly are you talking about? Most people I see asking questions, are the ones wanting to know what the blood transfusion was for, because quite frankly, it doesn't really make sense, regardless if there's an overabundance of exposition(which there isn't as far as the transfusion goes). It's an overall silly premise to begin with, one in which has to be glossed over, but at the same time, just doesn't make sense.

This is just my opinion (obviously :woot:) but I thought that when Pavel's blood was transferred to the body and Bane said to one of his men "They expect one of us in the wreckage, brother" - it was perfectly clear to me that the people in the broken plane wre going to die, and the dead body would be temporarily assumed as Pavel's. Makes sense to me - no need for further explanation.

This is coming from a guy who needs quite a few things explained from the previous movies. :(

[Anita18]

The moment I saw the prologue i got what the transfusion was for.

But this i can understand being confusing if not explained.

However when I see a plethora of people inquiring:

"Did the CIA Guy throw someone out of the plane?"

"Why did that guy stay behind?"

"Why do you think Bane said 'for you'?"

It surprises me because these seem to be fairly obvious things from the prologue. The last few days people have been saying Nolan's films have too much exposition but, when you don't explain bluntly that the CIA guy was bluffing a large section of people seem to miss out on it.

Its strange, to me.
Not to mention there are many people to this day are confused over Joker's claims on his own behavior and don't realize that HE LIES. :funny:

[Name-That-movie]

To be fair a lot of people I talked to after they saw it on Tuesday and since then have asked about the transfusion. I guess most people don't think on that level, and by no means is that a bash. Just seems to be a simple fact.

[Bats]

I got the transfusion right away as well as the CIA douche's ploy for Bane & his men. Nothing was confusing in any way except for what Bane was saying even though I saw the prologue transcript before seeing it. Weird thing about that was one of the bootlegs I saw, I understand it much better than in the theater.

[DaveMoral]

Hey, give them a break... this is the same general audience that couldn't understand why Batman changed his voice when the first film launched.

Well, that was kind of dickish huh?

[QueenChaos]

Not to mention there are many people to this day are confused over Joker's claims on his own behavior and don't realize that HE LIES. :funny:

Some are still confused over if he said

six

or


ten


:oldrazz:

[Indrid Cold]

"Did the CIA Guy throw someone out of the plane?"

No, he threw out his back, in the back of the plane.

"Why did that guy stay behind?"

He just got all of first class to himself, wouldn't you?

Hahaha, ohhh the funny!

[CelticPredator]

Good for you. Some people didn't get it. Not a big deal.

[The_Raganork]

To be fair a lot of people I talked to after they saw it on Tuesday and since then have asked about the transfusion. I guess most people don't think on that level, and by no means is that a bash. Just seems to be a simple fact.


Yeah, which is fine if people don't get the transfusion but that's only further proof that exposition is a necessary tool in storytelling and when Nolan skimps people are confused.

However the confusion over the line:

"if I pull this off will you die"

"it will be extremely painful"

"you're a big guy-"

"for you"

Is absolutely mind numbing as well as if the CIA shot someone or not.

[Nevincer]

Well, that was kind of dickish huh?
Not particularly. I get sick of people crying "too much exposition, Nolan!" as well whilst simultaneously not being able to figure out things like the blood transfusion.

[Travesty]

The moment I saw the prologue i got what the transfusion was for.

But this i can understand being confusing if not explained.

However when I see a plethora of people inquiring:

"Did the CIA Guy throw someone out of the plane?"

"Why did that guy stay behind?"

"Why do you think Bane said 'for you'?"

It surprises me because these seem to be fairly obvious things from the prologue. The last few days people have been saying Nolan's films have too much exposition but, when you don't explain bluntly that the CIA guy was bluffing a large section of people seem to miss out on it.

Its strange, to me.
Yes, but some of these people asking about what was going on in the prologue are still watching the bootleg, which, isn't that clear what's going on, regardless of which version you have. You can't blame people for not seeing the actual released version, when they're watching some blurry cell phone version.

And if they did see it in theaters, just because a few are questioning it, doesn't negate the fact that Nolan's dialogue is very heavy handed with exposition at times.

[TinkerTailor]

Where are all the "less exposition" people now?

They need to read through the last few days of post

I'm still here but after reading this thread for the last few days I've been too busy banging my head in incredulous frustration to post.

At this point I will happily see Nolan produce a pamphlet for certain cinema goers with a point by point explanation of every line in the film just so I can stop tearing my hair out.

[Travesty]

Not particularly. I get sick of people crying "too much exposition, Nolan!" as well whilst simultaneously not being able to figure out things like the blood transfusion.And again, you can't blame them with something that doesn't really make sense. Even with a blood transfusion, you'll still be able to identify the body through many different means. And why would Bane, a person who isn't afraid of being in the limelight, scared of getting caught? The guy is publicly killing people at a stadium, and taking over an entire city, so why would he be scared of someone finding out that he killed some people in a plane? It just doesn't add up, and maybe that's why people don't understand what's going on.

You can't just explain everything away like that, and then say Nolan's exposition is fine.

[The_Raganork]

Yes, but some of these people asking about what was going on in the prologue are still watching the bootleg, which, isn't that clear what's going on, regardless of which version you have. You can't blame people for not seeing the actual released version, when they're watching some blurry cell phone version.

And if they did see it in theaters, just because a few are questioning it, doesn't negate the fact that Nolan's dialogue is very heavy handed with exposition at times.

I don't agree totally. (but I don't disagree totally either)

When a good portion of people are confused by something like the transfusion then Exposition would have helped. Everyone who feels Nolan needs to cool it down with the exposition needs to pay attention to what's happening here. people are thoroughly confused by the blood transfusion and more obvious things like the notion of bluffing.

Exposition is there to keep that from happening, without it people are confused.

I'd like for someone to take the majority of exposition in Inception out of the film and see what would happen to general audiences. Because the first thing I heard when Inception ended was a guy saying:

"The guy who made that must have been high when he did, cause it didn't make no damn sense'

And unfortunately a lot of people were confused by Inception, so the exposition seemingly wasn't enough. I felt personally it was fine but, I think a lot of us are used to watching these films as films and not just experiencing it, so things like exposition stick out to us.

Its fine to think it's too much exposition to one's taste but we all have biases and the point of these films is to come across a certain way to a general audience.

If people want to see too much exposition go see MI4 where some of the exposition has exposition and they have hypothetical exposition about events that aren't going to happen at all in the film but would be cool to explain.

[bullets]

The moment I saw the prologue i got what the transfusion was for.

But this i can understand being confusing if not explained.

However when I see a plethora of people inquiring:

"Did the CIA Guy throw someone out of the plane?"

"Why did that guy stay behind?"

"Why do you think Bane said 'for you'?"

It surprises me because these seem to be fairly obvious things from the prologue. The last few days people have been saying Nolan's films have too much exposition but, when you don't explain bluntly that the CIA guy was bluffing a large section of people seem to miss out on it.

Its strange, to me.



My friend overheard someone ask if Bane was a vampire during the transfusion scene.

It's funny to know the person sitting next to you could be having an entirely different experience.

[The_Raganork]

I'm still here but after reading this thread for the last few days I've been too busy banging my head in incredulous frustration to post.

At this point I will happily see Nolan produce a pamphlet for certain cinema goers with a point by point explanation of every line in the film just so I can stop tearing my hair out.

haha.

To be fair I'm not saying I'm better than anyone. I missed out a big moment in TDK because of lack of exposition and my being so sucked into the scene.

I didn't get that Joker lied about the location of Harvey and rachel until the film ended. I was confused for a good moment. So I certainly understand missing something here and there but when it comes down to plot points exposition is not a bad thing and I, personally, feel Nolan has done a fine job of using exposition.

[Name-That-movie]

Yes, but some of these people asking about what was going on in the prologue are still watching the bootleg, which, isn't that clear what's going on, regardless of which version you have. You can't blame people for not seeing the actual released version, when they're watching some blurry cell phone version.

And if they did see it in theaters, just because a few are questioning it, doesn't negate the fact that Nolan's dialogue is very heavy handed with exposition at times.

And this is fine and perfectly understandable. However it gets frustrating when the boards are flooded with the same questions over and over and I'm not talking about the transfusion but stuff like "I think he says for you about his size" or "what guy got left behind? I think both did, no your wrong they both did."

People need to start being just a little less lazy and take a look back and see if someone might of already asked that question.

[Travesty]

When a good portion of people are confused by something like the transfusion then Exposition would have helped. Everyone who feels Nolan needs to cool it down with the exposition needs to pay attention to what's happening here. people are thoroughly confused by the blood transfusion and more obvious things like the notion of bluffing.
Yes, but you're still not realizing that the vast majority of people who've been questioning it for a few days now, have watched the bootleg, which, isn't exactly clear what's going on in the scene. It's choppy, shaky, and just all around not that clear. You can't blame people for not being able to see what's going on in a low quality bootleg.

And again, even if they did, the plot doesn't even add up to making any kind of sense. If it actually made sense to do a blood transfusion, then sure, but really, it doesn't make a lick of sense, both in a realistic sense, and the way the character is portrayed.

[Travesty]

And this is fine and perfectly understandable. However it gets frustrating when the boards are flooded with the same questions over and over and I'm not talking about the transfusion but stuff like "I think he says for you about his size" or "what guy got left behind? I think both did, no your wrong they both did."

People need to start being just a little less lazy and take a look back and see if someone might of already asked that question.
This has nothing to do with Nolan's exposition, which was my point. I'm not trying to debate people's lazy forum tendencies.

[TinkerTailor]

haha.

To be fair I'm not saying I'm better than anyone. I missed out a big moment in TDK because of lack of exposition and my being so sucked into the scene.

I didn't get that Joker lied about the location of Harvey and rachel until the film ended. I was confused for a good moment. So I certainly understand missing something here and there but when it comes down to plot points exposition is not a bad thing and I, personally, feel Nolan has done a fine job of using exposition.

I actually think the prologue was fine. It made sense in the context. CIA Douche is obviously going to be asking Bane all these questions because it's his job. He needs to know these things. Bane's men wouldn't discuss the transfusion in that situation because they're clearly a well oiled machine so why would they discuss it there and then.

I thought it was fairly obvious that Bane performs the transfusion and leaves a body and a man in the wreckage because he wants to cause a little confusion at the crash site. For what purpose will be revealed in the other 2 and a bit hours worth of cinema that some people seem to be forgetting about.

[The_Raganork]

Yes, but you're still not realizing that the vast majority of people who've been questioning it for a few days now, have watched the bootleg, which, isn't exactly clear what's going on in the scene. It's choppy, shaky, and just all around not that clear. You can't blame people for not being able to see what's going on in a low quality bootleg.

I don't agree.

People saw what Bane was doing they just didn't understand why. So it being a bootleg had nothing to do with them not knowing what it was for.

It was a lack of exposition.

And again, even if they did, the plot doesn't even add up to making any kind of sense. If it actually made sense to do a blood transfusion, then sure, but really, it doesn't make a lick of sense, both in a realistic sense, and the way the character is portrayed.

It may not make sense ultimately but it's also no totally absurd, if it were none of us would understand why it happened. A little stretch of the imagination easily can come up with a reason why Bane would do that. Even if the results of him doing it are in dispute the reason for him doing it is not something that is obscenely strange and unusual.

[Baneis8feettall]

My friend overheard someone ask if Bane was a vampire during the transfusion scene.

It's funny to know the person sitting next to you could be having an entirely different experience.

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/batman_vampire-186x300.jpg

[The_Raganork]

I actually think the prologue was fine. It made sense in the context. CIA Douche is obviously going to be asking Bane all these questions because it's his job. He needs to know these things. Bane's men wouldn't discuss the transfusion in that situation because they're clearly a well oiled machine so why would they discuss it there and then.

I thought it was fairly obvious that Bane performs the transfusion and leaves a body and a man in the wreckage because he wants to cause a little confusion at the crash site. For what purpose will be revealed in the other 2 and a bit hours worth of cinema that some people seem to be forgetting about.

Yes but a lot of people did not get it...at all.

[Sharkboy]

Personally, I don't mind going through my first viewing not understanding everything in a film. Gives me reason to watch it again, as long as the things i didn't understand don't detract from my overall enjoyment. I'm still finding new little things in the prologue that make it better with each watch.

People just need to learn to go with it sometimes, or just use their own head.

[Clerk]

Personally, I don't mind going through my first viewing not understanding everything in a film. Gives me reason to watch it again, as long as the things i didn't understand don't detract from my overall enjoyment. I'm still finding new little things in the prologue that make it better with each watch.

Im inclined to agree, that's what makes films like The Departed and Blade Runner so great. Hell, I still catch **** I hadn't seen my first few times in seeing The Dark Knight, my mind was blown when they panned in on Det. Ramirez face as Dent drove away and when you could see Dent grab the mob passenger before getting in the car.

[Travesty]

I don't agree.

People saw what Bane was doing they just didn't understand why. So it being a bootleg had nothing to do with them not knowing what it was for.

It was a lack of exposition.Ha, there is no way of knowing that. I have 6 different versions of the prologue on my computer right now, and there is only one version that I can even a see a tube going into his arm with blood coming out of it. All the others are so choppy/blurry, that I can't even see anything, other than Bane holding some guy that is screaming. You have no idea what version these people are seeing this in. The ONLY reason why I knew what was going on before I even watched the prologue, was Name-That-Movie explained it to us before we even had the audio version.

Now, if this was on the official site, and we had an HD version that we knew everybody was watching, then I may be able to agree with you, but I know for a fact that I couldn't make out anything in that scene. I just knew, because of what was told to us here. There is no even field for debate on this.

It may not make sense ultimately but it's also no totally absurd, if it were none of us would understand why it happened. A little stretch of the imagination easily can come up with a reason why Bane would do that. Even if the results of him doing it are in dispute the reason for him doing it is not something that is obscenely strange and unusual.It has nothing to do with having a "stretch of the imagination". I get it, these are fictional characters, but at the same time, we know the rules to which these characters play by. We've known for many months now, that Bane publicly kills a TON of people at a football stadium. Why would he need to do a blood transfusion to cover up a plan heist? Apparently, he's afraid of getting caught, except when he's not afraid of getting caught. It doesn't even add up....

[TinkerTailor]

Yes but a lot of people did not get it...at all.

True, but I don't always necessarily see it as a bad thing to be left confused by something that a character does in a film, particularly when we first meet them. Seeing someone like Bane (who is already being played up as a mysterious character due to his appearance and his reputation) do something that goes over our heads creates further intrigue into his methods and his intentions. I would expect a pay off or explanation later in the film though. I suppose if I see something like that it makes me lean in further and become immersed more.

Obviously this is when personal preference comes into play.

[Sharkboy]

Im inclined to agree, that's what makes films like The Departed and Blade Runner so great. Hell, I still catch **** I hadn't seen my first few times in seeing The Dark Knight, my mind was blown when they panned in on Det. Ramirez face as Dent drove away and when you could see Dent grab the mob passenger before getting in the car.

Ditto on the Ramirez face, you would have had to be incredibly perceptive to catch that on your first go and properly assume something was up.

Didn't get f**k all with blade runner when i was 11, instead of whining about it because i was too dumb to get it, i took the time to figure it out throughout the years and now it's probably in my top 5 easy, and im STILL figuring out that film.

Doesn't apply to every film though, some are just incomprehensible because they are crap.

[rogue_agent]

We've known for many months now, that Bane publicly kills a TON of people at a football stadium. Why would he need to do a blood transfusion to cover up a plan heist? Apparently, he's afraid of getting caught, except when he's not afraid of getting caught. It doesn't even add up....

I assume the football stadium killings are when Bane's plans are going smoothly. The prologue seems to be when he's just beginning his plans. He's afraid of getting caught because his plans may go awry - not because he's intimidated by anybody. No matter how strong Bane is, what really matters is his plan. Without his plans coming to fruition, Bane cannot succeed no matter how strong and frightening he is.

[The_Raganork]

Ha, there is no way of knowing that. I have 6 different versions of the prologue on my computer right now, and there is only one version that I can even a see a tube going into his arm with blood coming out of it. All the others are so choppy/blurry, that I can't even see anything, other than Bane holding some guy that is screaming. You have no idea what version these people are seeing this in. The ONLY reason why I knew what was going on before I even watched the prologue, was Name-That-Movie explained it to us before we even had the audio version.

Now, if this was on the official site, and we had an HD version that we knew everybody was watching, then I may be able to agree with you, but I know for a fact that I couldn't make out anything in that scene. I just knew, because of what was told to us here. There is no even field for debate on this.

When someone comes in asking "What was the Blood transfusion for" they saw what was happening but did not understand why. This has nothing to do with the quality of the film.

It has nothing to do with having a "stretch of the imagination". I get it, these are fictional characters, but at the same time, we know the rules to which these characters play by. We've known for many months now, that Bane publicly kills a TON of people at a football stadium. Why would he need to do a blood transfusion to cover up a plan heist? Apparently, he's afraid of getting caught, except when he's not afraid of getting caught. It doesn't even add up....

So the excuse now is that its against his character? that's strange.

This is your first real taste of Bane in context to anything. So it needn't add up to something you saw in a spy video or overheard. Plus the majority of people don't know what we know.

There's no reason for information to get in your way of trying to figure something out.

The blood transfusion is really not as out there as you're making it seem. It kind of sounds like you're saying its such a ridiculous notion that it wouldn't cross anyone's mind to think what it's for and that's not true.

It may be unbelievable and strange but it doesn't defy logic, its not a case of sheer ridiculousness.

True, but I don't always necessarily see it as a bad thing to be left confused by something that a character does in a film, particularly when we first meet them. Seeing someone like Bane (who is already being played up as a mysterious character due to his appearance and his reputation) do something that goes over our heads creates further intrigue into his methods and his intentions. I would expect a pay off or explanation later in the film though. I suppose if I see something like that it makes me lean in further and become immersed more.

Obviously this is when personal preference comes into play.

I agree, I would be immersed too but if one is not getting that thE CIA agent is bluffing, that doesn't add something to the film, that makes the entire scene odd because it revolves around that idea.

Not getting the transfusion is fine because its not critical but if later on in the story the CIA thinks Pavel's dead and they don't explain why you can bet some people will think its a plot hole because of a lack of exposition.

[Travesty]

I assume the football stadium killings are when Bane's plans are going smoothly. The prologue seems to be when he's just beginning his plans. He's afraid of getting caught because his plans may go awry - not because he's intimidated by anybody. No matter how strong Bane is, what really matters is his plan. Without his plans coming to fruition, Bane cannot succeed no matter how strong and frightening he is.Ha, so the guy who purposefully gets caught, is afraid of getting caught?

-Was getting caught part of the plan.

-Of course, but seeing as how I can escape this unlikely scenario with ease, I'm going to do a blood transfusion, so we don't get caught.

[Travesty]

It may be unbelievable and strange but it doesn't defy logic, its not a case of sheer ridiculousness.
Actually, I think it's exactly a case of sheer ridiculousness.

[wikum]

i'm confused about the transfusion...not the film logic for it, but more real life logic. are we supposed to assume that bane was actually there for a minimum of 10-20 mins doing a transfusion, but they just cut it in the prologue to save us the boredom? probably yes. i guess that the body is not so much there for the cia to think it's pavel, but more to leave traces of his blood/dna behind so that the cia think he's been killed. i dunno...couldn't there have been a better way to leave traces of pavel?

[The_Raganork]

Actually, I think it's exactly a case of sheer ridiculousness.

if it were no one would understand it.

[Travesty]

if it were no one would understand it.
The very reason why it's being questioned proves the point of how ridiculous it is. It doesn't add up or make any sense.

[The_Raganork]

The very reason why it's being questioned proves the point of how ridiculous it is. It doesn't add up or make any sense.

It makes sense to me and to the other people I saw it with.

something that doesn't make sense?

Square Triangles.


the transfusion is nowhere near the incomprehensibility as a Square triangle.

you can understand why the transfusion went on, even if at the end of the day you decide its impossible and foolish it's still something that's not beyond logic.

[Clerk]

I think we should all just agree to keep posting this photo:

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/batman_vampire-186x300.jpg

[wikum]

Actually, I think it's exactly a case of sheer ridiculousness.

i don't think it's a question of bane being worried about getting caught, it's because he doesn't want the authorities to know he's captured dr pavel. if they know he's got pavel, then they can plan ahead and/or be on terror alert. the whole point is that when bane's first strike on gotham ensues, nobody will be expecting it.

[rogue_agent]

Ha, so the guy who purposefully gets caught, is afraid of getting caught?

-Was getting caught part of the plan.

-Of course, but seeing as how I can escape this unlikely scenario with ease, I'm going to do a blood transfusion, so we don't get caught.

I see this as different situations. I think that was because Bane was confident that he could escape and outsmart the clueless CIA guy and others. He just wanted to know what Dr. Pavel told the CIA.

However, if the CIA find out that Pavel was taken, there will be a red alert sounded in the states. Bane and his men won't be able to smuggle Pavel into the states undetected if the CIA quickly realises that Pavel is still alive. All of Bane's plans will go awry.

Basically, if Bane wants to get caught, then everything will go fine. If Bane doesn't want to get caught, then I know that there has to be something greater at stake.

[ron1705]

couldn't there have been a better way to leave traces of pavel?

If they left Pavel himself. :oldrazz: But Bane's just buying himself some more time. It's obvious that he's known by the CIA.

And I think he exposes himself in the stadium scene because he wants Gotham to know who he is. At this point I think his plan is already in motion, whereas during the plane scene he's getting started by retrieving the doctor.

[TinkerTailor]

I agree, I would be immersed too but if one is not getting that thE CIA agent is bluffing, that doesn't add something to the film, that makes the entire scene odd because it revolves around that idea.

Not getting the transfusion is fine because its not critical but if later on in the story the CIA thinks Pavel's dead and they don't explain why you can bet some people will think its a plot hole because of a lack of exposition.

I genuinely think those that don't get the CIA Agent's bluff have either seen a really poor quality bootleg that doesn't show him throw the mercenary's back in the plane, or they're just not capable of logical thought. I don't understand how it could be made any clearer: the guy is bluffing and Bane calls him on it.

I remember reading a post saying The Joker telling two different stories about his scars is a plot hole. You're damn right people are going to find more in this film. Even when they're not there. :cwink:

Basically so long as Nolan avoid's moments as jarring as Ramirez's 'Harvey Dent!' after Gordon reads out the name tags on the dead cops; or Luscius' bad guys/SWAT/Batman battle commentary I'll be happy.

[The_Raganork]

haha the "Harvey Dent" thing.

But that's what people do! People DO that

[CelticPredator]

Cutting off his hand would've been better.

[CapedCrusader14]

haha the "Harvey Dent" thing.

But that's what people do! People DO that

It's such 'realistic' dialogue!

[CelticPredator]

What "harvey dent" thing?

[wikum]

I genuinely think those that don't get the CIA Agent's bluff have either seen a really poor quality bootleg that doesn't show him throw the mercenary's back in the plane, or they're just not capable of logical thought. I don't understand how it could be made any clearer: the guy is bluffing and Bane calls him on it.



exactly. i didn't realise the full extent of bane's first lines and how awesome they actually are until i'd seen a good copy, because i thought that cia douche was actually shooting them, then throwing them out of the plane...and bane was just saying what was the point? when actually, he's basically calling his bluff and owning him.

[Chris M]

So much obvious stuff from the prologue has to be explained to people...Its kind of shocking

You may want to go easy on those of us that watched it on bootleg with half the screen cutoff. "shocking"

[Sharkboy]

Well you can do two things, when you are presented with the problem. Bane is doing a blood transfusion in order to cover up his tracks, but he blows up a stadium later on in the film so clearly he's not worried about the authorities. So the two ways you can deal with this information;

a) take it as a plot hole, criticize the writing it was clearly a useless scene.

b) figure out that between the prologue and the stadium there must have been some time passed and certain events that have occurred that has changed Bane's approach from being cautious as a ninja to being confident enough to mass murder and talk about it on live tv in front of thousands in attendance.

It's not rocket science, nor is it bad writing to not assume your audience dosen't want literally everything spelt out for you.

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/batman_vampire-186x300.jpg

[DaveMoral]

You may want to go easy on those of us that watched it on bootleg with half the screen cutoff. "shocking"

Precisely.

[Name-That-movie]

Ha, so the guy who purposefully gets caught, is afraid of getting caught?

-Was getting caught part of the plan.

-Of course, but seeing as how I can escape this unlikely scenario with ease, I'm going to do a blood transfusion, so we don't get caught.

He wasn't caught at all, the Militia were in on the exchange. They would had to put the hoods on them and do you think the guy who described Bane as the masked mercenarie wouldn't know that the guy with the big mask on his face is Bane? It was all part of his plan, giving Pavel to the CIA, getting the money, finding out what the CIA knows and crashing the plane. Now they have money to fund the operation, Dr. Pavel to build the device and the CIA think they're dead (for the time being).

[Travesty]

I see this as different situations. I think that was because Bane was confident that he could escape and outsmart the clueless CIA guy and others. He just wanted to know what Dr. Pavel told the CIA.Yes, which was explained to us.

However, if the CIA find out that Pavel was taken, there will be a red alert sounded in the states. Bane and his men won't be able to smuggle Pavel into the states undetected if the CIA quickly realises that Pavel is still alive. All of Bane's plans will go awry.A "red alert"? They're in a friggin plane. I'm pretty sure they'll make it back to Gotham before anybody even notices a plane has even crashed.

Basically, if Bane wants to get caught, then everything will go fine. If Bane doesn't want to get caught, then I know that there has to be something greater at stake.It's still ridiculous and doesn't make sense. It reminds me of when TDK prologue came out, and everybody was questioning why NOBODY saw The Joker(a clown who is wanted on the streets of Gotham) standing on the street waiting for his ride. People were making excuses about living in a city, and how common it is, etc. But really, if I knew a deranged clown was wanted where I live, and I saw a deranged clown on the streets, I'm positive people would take notice. There should be no excuses, it's just a ridiculous scene that doesn't add up. Easy as that.

[slimshady247]

I don't think he did the blood transfusion not to get caught, but in order to slow down the CIA or whoever will probably be searching for him.

[Dr Zaius]

Well you can do two things, when you are presented with the problem. Bane is doing a blood transfusion in order to cover up his tracks, but he blows up a stadium later on in the film so clearly he's not worried about the authorities. So the two ways you can deal with this information;

a) take it as a plot hole, criticize the writing it was clearly a useless scene.

b) figure out that between the prologue and the stadium there must have been some time passed and certain events that have occurred that has changed Bane's approach from being cautious as a ninja to being confident enough to mass murder and talk about it on live tv in front of thousands in attendance.

It's not rocket science, nor is it bad writing to not assume your audience dosen't want literally everything spelt out for you.

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/batman_vampire-186x300.jpg

I think a more likely explanation is that Bane must use secrecy until he gets Dr. Pavel to do what he wants so his plans aren't interrupted. Once Dr. Pavel helps him create that big ball of doom he doesn't need to cover his tracks anymore, he can finally step out into the light.

[Nevincer]

I don't think he did the blood transfusion not to get caught, but in order to slow down the CIA or whoever will probably be searching for him.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/batman_vampire-186x300.jpg

[The_Raganork]

What "harvey dent" thing?

Gordon: 'Richard dent, patrick Harvey"

Ramirez: "Harvey Dent!"

No, really Ramirez!?

You may want to go easy on those of us that watched it on bootleg with half the screen cutoff. "shocking"

Again i understand not seeing something or hearing something from a bootleg but, what I'm talking about is not being able to put 2 and 2 together with the "...For You" line and the CIA guys bluffing.

Those are pretty clear.

The transfusion thing will need exposition at some point. i'm sure of it.

[Travesty]

He wasn't caught at all, the Militia were in on the exchange. They would had to put the hoods on them and do you think the guy who described Bane as the masked mercenarie wouldn't know that the guy with the big mask on his face is Bane? It was all part of his plan, giving Pavel to the CIA, getting the money, finding out what the CIA knows and crashing the plane. Now they have money to fund the operation, Dr. Pavel to build the device and the CIA think they're dead (for the time being).Getting the money and Pavel is a moot point, as they could have gotten that regardless. The only reason why the plan jacking happened, was to find out if Pavel told them anything. The whole blood transfusion is still a ridiculous notion to think about.

[DaveMoral]

Hell, the bluffing is easily confused when we are talking crappy bootlegs. You cant necessarily see that he didnt chuck the dude out the door.

[Dr Zaius]

The transfusion thing will need exposition at some point. i'm sure of it.

I thought the transfusion thing was self evident, he left one of his own guys behind saying they expect one of Bane's gang to be on board, and then they inject some of the Doctors blood into the corpse to make it seem like Dr. Pavel died in the crash so they will no longer be looking for him once they inspect the crash site and do some DNA testing to see that the blood is Pavel's.

[Travesty]

I don't think he did the blood transfusion not to get caught, but in order to slow down the CIA or whoever will probably be searching for him.
Searching for him? Who cares, he takes over all of Gotham. Why would he be worried about the CIA, especially when he kills Pavel on live TV during the football scene? He obviously doesn't care about being caught.

[Sharkboy]

I think a more likely explanation is that Bane must use secrecy until he gets Dr. Pavel to do what he wants so his plans aren't interrupted. Once Dr. Pavel helps him create that big ball of doom he doesn't need to cover his tracks anymore, he can finally step out into the light.

See? and who said we needed this film to spell things out for us.

[bullets]

You may want to go easy on those of us that watched it on bootleg with half the screen cutoff. "shocking"


I still haven't seen the prologue correctly so it took a few times for me to really understand everything. That was with half the screen darkened.

[The_Raganork]

Searching for him? Who cares, he takes over all of Gotham. Why would he be worried about the CIA, especially when he kills Pavel on live TV during the football scene? He obviously doesn't care about being caught.

are you saying Bane is aware of his victory later on in the film during the prologue?

what you're suggesting absurd. The man doesn't care about getting caught ever because he didn't care about getting caught once.

Here's a shocking thought: Maybe he's wary of getting caught until he has a Nuke in his hands and Gotham locked out from the rest of the country :wow:

[QueenChaos]

I think a more likely explanation is that Bane must use secrecy until he gets Dr. Pavel to do what he wants so his plans aren't interrupted. Once Dr. Pavel helps him create that big ball of doom he doesn't need to cover his tracks anymore, he can finally step out into the light.

Sounds about right to me.

[slimshady247]

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/batman_vampire-186x300.jpg

?

are you saying Bane is aware of his victory later on in the film during the prologue?

what you're suggesting absurd. The man doesn't care about getting caught ever because he didn't care about getting caught once.

Here's a shocking thought: Maybe he's wary of getting caught until he has a Nuke in his hands and Gotham locked out from the rest of the country :wow:

This man speaks sense.

[QueenChaos]

Discussion has been a lively one to follow though. Pass the butterballs.

[Travesty]

are you saying Bane is aware of his victory later on in the film during the prologue?

what you're suggesting absurd. The man doesn't care about getting caught ever because he didn't care about getting caught once.

Here's a shocking thought: Maybe he's wary of getting caught until he has a Nuke in his hands and Gotham locked out from the rest of the country :wow:So he leaves one of his men behind, and a half assed attempt at a blood transfusion, in a bullet ridden plane, that's missing it's wings and tail.

Yes, nobody would notice a thing that could link back to Bane. The blood transfusion is what's going to lead the CIA off the tracks of Bane. :o

[rogue_agent]

Yes, which was explained to us.

A "red alert"? They're in a friggin plane. I'm pretty sure they'll make it back to Gotham before anybody even notices a plane has even crashed.

I don't know why, but I doubt it. I'm finding it difficult to sat exactly why, but what if they don't even go straight to Gotham in this plane? I think the CIA will eventually find out that something's wrong and therefore Bane will be exposed. I don't even think it's about getting caught, it's about the CIA and others intercepting and ruining his plans.

It's still ridiculous and doesn't make sense. It reminds me of when TDK prologue came out, and everybody was questioning why NOBODY saw The Joker(a clown who is wanted on the streets of Gotham) standing on the street waiting for his ride. People were making excuses about living in a city, and how common it is, etc. But really, if I knew a deranged clown was wanted where I live, and I saw a deranged clown on the streets, I'm positive people would take notice. There should be no excuses, it's just a ridiculous scene that doesn't add up. Easy as that.

At first, I thought it's because he has his head down, but yeah, it seems strange.

Bear in mind that I'm just telling you how I'm currently interpreting this prologue. I'm not trying to defend it or anything. :yay:

[zmystico]

Just saw prologue...really hoping they either add subtitles for Bane or dub his voice because you can only understand every other sentence he says...still very epic, this movie is gonna own The Dark Knight.

[JL Unlimited]

I can't wait til the movie comes out so we'll see how this scene fully plays out to the rest of the movie.

A movie must be doing something right to fall under such intense scrutiny. I've never seen this much discussion about a six minute clip for a movie that doesn't come out until next July. People must care a lot to want to debate about every little detail. I don't remember TDK being as crazy and those were some crazy times.

[Spideyfan93]

I got a story for ya'll.

My cousin, my friend and I planned all week to go yesterday at the 6:15 showing of MI:4 at Lincoln Square NYC. We get to the theater to buy our tickets early around 2:55 and see that all the next showings are SOLD OUT...our hearts sank. So we decide to go watch the 2:55 showing in hopes of catching the prologue. We got to the theater and the movie started. Again, our hearts sank but we sat in the front row(terrible seats) for the movie.

I have to say, MI:4 is definitely up there with the original and it might have surpassed it. It was a great great film and the Dubai Tower sequence had my stomach feeling uneasy.

So after the movie ended, it was 5:10. We were going to sit around and wait for the 6:15 showing to catch the prologue then leave. Around 5:30...we are told there is no way we can stay, AMC policy. My friend emotionally breaks down saying we came all the way from Toms River, New Jersey...how we spent gas money and ****. We all had our heads down and my friend was on the verge of emotionally going ape****.

So...the manager finally feels compassionate and says we can stick around for it(we all got giddy and excited!)

That prologue was ******* awesome and the footage after was even more awesome. The scene in the opening was even more fantastical than TDK opening. Bane is a badass and everything that was going on...was a bit confusing but surely there will be exposition to explain what's occurring. This wasn't as straight to the point like the heist scene was. But whatever they did to film that sequence...very hard to pinpoint and I can't wait for the Behind The Scenes for it.

One complaint...I really couldn't understand Bane much. The voice is excellent, but I understood two lines definitely and that's it.

OF COURSE!(going to be a meme I ******* know it)
The Fire Rises

Now, I heard they are going to fix the voice and I know I'm not the only one. This a major problem with a majority of audiences who've seen the prologue. It needs fixing...it really does.

Other than that, job well done Nolan and cast and crew!

[Dr Zaius]

It's still ridiculous and doesn't make sense. It reminds me of when TDK prologue came out, and everybody was questioning why NOBODY saw The Joker(a clown who is wanted on the streets of Gotham) standing on the street waiting for his ride. People were making excuses about living in a city, and how common it is, etc. But really, if I knew a deranged clown was wanted where I live, and I saw a deranged clown on the streets, I'm positive people would take notice. There should be no excuses, it's just a ridiculous scene that doesn't add up. Easy as that.

Well, was the Joker WANTED at that point? We know he had committed some crimes, but I don't keep up to speed on every wanted criminal where I live. And seriously, if I saw someone dressed as a clown on the streets of NYC where I go to college, I truly would not think anything of it, I've seen crazier people than that.

Buy alas, to many it requires a willful suspension of disbelief, but then again so does a microwave emitter that vaporizes water underground but not the water in the bodies of the human beings standing next to it.

[バット人]

This conversation about the plot holes with the Prologue just made me find an actual, glaring plot hole. Okay, so Bane is trying to cover his ass with the blood transfusion and letting his follower stay behind so that when the CIA finds the wreckage they'll just assume everyone on board was killed, right? Well how does Bane even know that the CIA agent only called in one of the prisoners instead of all three of them? The CIA agent was bluffing about killing them and throwing them off the plane (Bane caught this), so isn't it likely that the flight plan included EVERYONE? So what's Bane going to do now when they find the wreckage and see that Bane and his other follower is missing and doesn't match the report/flight plan? It doesn't make sense.

[slimshady247]

I got a story for ya'll.

My cousin, my friend and I planned all week to go yesterday at the 6:15 showing of MI:4 at Lincoln Square NYC. We get to the theater to buy our tickets early around 2:55 and see that all the next showings are SOLD OUT...our hearts sank. So we decide to go watch the 2:55 showing in hopes of catching the prologue. We got to the theater and the movie started. Again, our hearts sank but we sat in the front row(terrible seats) for the movie.

I have to say, MI:4 is definitely up there with the original and it might have surpassed it. It was a great great film and the Dubai Tower sequence had my stomach feeling uneasy.

So after the movie ended, it was 5:10. We were going to sit around and wait for the 6:15 showing to catch the prologue then leave. Around 5:30...we are told there is no way we can stay, AMC policy. My friend emotionally breaks down saying we came all the way from Toms River, New Jersey...how we spent gas money and ****. We all had our heads down and my friend was on the verge of emotionally going ape****.

So...the manager finally feels compassionate and says we can stick around for it(we all got giddy and excited!)

That prologue was ******* awesome and the footage after was even more awesome. The scene in the opening was even more fantastical than TDK opening. Bane is a badass and everything that was going on...was a bit confusing but surely there will be exposition to explain what's occurring. This wasn't as straight to the point like the heist scene was. But whatever they did to film that sequence...very hard to pinpoint and I can't wait for the Behind The Scenes for it.

One complaint...I really couldn't understand Bane much. The voice is excellent, but I understood two lines definitely and that's it.

OF COURSE!(going to be a meme I ******* know it)
The Fire Rises

Now, I heard they are going to fix the voice and I know I'm not the only one. This a major problem with a majority of audiences who've seen the prologue. It needs fixing...it really does.

Other than that, job well done Nolan and cast and crew!
Glad you enjoyed it!

[redfirebird2008]

OF COURSE!(going to be a meme I ******* know it)


Already is. :hehe:

[Nevincer]

Already is. :hehe:
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1518/battrollemotefinal.png

[Sharkboy]

It's not the voice that needs fixing, it's the plane noise.

[QueenChaos]

It's not the voice that needs fixing, it's the plane noise.

Was just going to point this out.
The more I consider it, the more it does appear that this was the primary issue of that sequence.

I was still able to understand the dialogue, but admittedly the plane noise inhibited things to where you do need to focus in to be sure you catch everything. Not a huge deal, but as has been stated.. they will likely be doing some tweaking anyway.

[Spideyfan93]

Are you saying the plane was too loud therefore it was hard to understand Bane? As his voice was too low in contrast to the plane?

Because I'm pretty sure it's just his voice. It's much harder to comprehend then TDK Batman.

[Dr Zaius]

This conversation about the plot holes with the Prologue just made me find an actual, glaring plot hole. Okay, so Bane is trying to cover his ass with the blood transfusion and letting his follower stay behind so that when the CIA finds the wreckage they'll just assume everyone on board was killed, right? Well how does Bane even know that the CIA agent only called in one of the prisoners instead of all three of them? The CIA agent was bluffing about killing them and throwing them off the plane (Bane caught this), so isn't it likely that the flight plan included EVERYONE? So what's Bane going to do now when they find the wreckage and see that Bane and his other follower is missing and doesn't match the report/flight plan? It doesn't make sense.


http://www.movieweb.com/news/the-dark-knight-rises-prologue-script-pages-reveal-banes-dialogue

^ click this, it is the script for the prologue, the CIA agent says that his flight plan only lists one guy that was going after Dr. Pavel for Bane's team. I think we are supposed to assume he is telling the truth on this one.

[RKO]

This conversation about the plot holes with the Prologue just made me find an actual, glaring plot hole. Okay, so Bane is trying to cover his ass with the blood transfusion and letting his follower stay behind so that when the CIA finds the wreckage they'll just assume everyone on board was killed, right? Well how does Bane even know that the CIA agent only called in one of the prisoners instead of all three of them? The CIA agent was bluffing about killing them and throwing them off the plane (Bane caught this), so isn't it likely that the flight plan included EVERYONE? So what's Bane going to do now when they find the wreckage and see that Bane and his other follower is missing and doesn't match the report/flight plan? It doesn't make sense.

Talk about over-thinking the whole thing.

Not all bodies make it through a plane crash. The point is just to make them believe the doctor is dead.

[バット人]

Make the dialogue louder and tone down the background plane noise and it should be fine. If the characters can hear each other talk, then we should be able to hear them talk as well.

[bullets]

Discussion has been a lively one to follow though. Pass the butterballs.


http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/batman_vampire-186x300.jpg

[Travesty]

Well, was the Joker WANTED at that point? We know he had committed some crimes, but I don't keep up to speed on every wanted criminal where I live. And seriously, if I saw someone dressed as a clown on the streets of NYC where I go to college, I truly would not think anything of it, I've seen crazier people than that.
Yes, as the ending of BB showed us that the police are well aware, and then Gordon also shows a pic to Batman in the vault in TDK, and he says "him again", meaning, he's been around killing and robbing.

And you wouldn't think anything of it, cause there are no clowns wanted for murder and robbery where you live. If before Bin Laden was killed, and someone was walking around NYC looking EXACTLY like Bin Laden, I'm sure people would take notice.

You're just glossing over the obvious.

Buy alas, to many it requires a willful suspension of disbelief, but then again so does a microwave emitter that vaporizes water underground but not the water in the bodies of the human beings standing next to it.Every movie does, but the execution is still at question. Every Van Damm movie will need a "willful suspension of disbelief", does that mean those movies aren't ridiculous.

[バット人]

http://www.movieweb.com/news/the-dark-knight-rises-prologue-script-pages-reveal-banes-dialogue

^ click this, it is the script for the prologue, the CIA agent says that his flight plan only lists one guy that was going after Dr. Pavel for Bane's team. I think we are supposed to assume he is telling the truth on this one.

The CIA agent also said that "the first one to talk gets to stay on his aircraft". He then threatened to throw them out saying "they didn't fly so good" when all he did was throw them aside. He was just interrogating them so by that logic, they would be in the flight plan. If they're part of the flight plan, there are currently two people missing. Talk about over-thinking the whole thing.

Not all bodies make it through a plane crash. The point is just to make them believe the doctor is dead.

It's not about Dr. Pavel. I understood the blood transfer. Why make the follower stay behind?

[Sharkboy]

He sounds perfectly fine in the trailer...so it already makes the "redub bane's voice" pleas invalid. It's just the plane scene. I'm sure filming it with that loud as hell IMAX camera couldn't help either.

[バット人]

I'm sure filming it with that loud as hell IMAX camera couldn't help either.

Well that's what post-production, editing and ADR is for.

[Travesty]

He sounds perfectly fine in the trailer...so it already makes the "redub bane's voice" pleas invalid. It's just the plane scene. I'm sure filming it with that loud as hell IMAX camera couldn't help either.

I've already been saying this, but I'm having a harder time understanding him in the trailer than I am in the prologue. It may be because I've known what he says in the prologue for some time now, and I went in the trailer not knowing all the lines?:huh:

[The_Raganork]

It's not about Dr. Pavel. I understood the blood transfer. Why make the follower stay behind?

Because the manifest has 1 of them listed as passengers.

Yes the CIA guy bluffed on killing them but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't kill them after he got the info.

If he shot two of them on the spot, he might have lost his chance to get any info.

Just because he bluffed at one time doesn't mean he wasn't serious about the manifest.

[QueenChaos]

Because the manifest has 1 of them listed as passengers.

Yes the CIA guy bluffed on killing them but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't kill them after he got the info.

If he shot two of them on the spot, he might have lost his chance to get any info.

Just because he bluffed at one time doesn't mean he wasn't serious about the manifest.

Exactly this.

[Superhero 101]

Well Nolan said he just started working editing and all so the audio and dubbing should all be fixed by release.

[Nevincer]

I've already been saying this, but I'm having a harder time understanding him in the trailer than I am in the prologue. It may be because I've known what he says in the prologue for some time now, and I went in the trailer not knowing all the lines?:huh:
That's strange. Most people have said the audio in the trailer is clearer in the prologue due to better sound mixing. I don't really have a problem with his speech at all myself, but then I've always been told what he says before I've actually heard him speak.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3762/transbattroll.png

[Duuude]

Joker in TDK:
It looked cool and that's why Nolan did it. It was only a momentary thing.

Bane in TDKR prologue:
This wasnt a momentary thing. Nolan made the transfusion a huge deal. Those guys carried a dead guy from one plane to the other to do this, so its not something that you can easily overlook. But it doesnt work:
1) They barely transfused any blood. Doesnt the body have its own blood? How will the police get the sample bane wants?
2) I dont think you can transfuse a dead body. They did press his chest to pump his heart but that wouldnt get the blood to circulate well enough for that.
3) Wouldnt the coroner see that the guy was dead long before the crash?
4) The CIA agent was bluffing. So i'm guessing they expected 3 guys and not just one.

But out of all of them, its the first one that bugs me the most.

[バット人]

Because the manifest has 1 of them listed as passengers.

Yes the CIA guy bluffed on killing them but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't kill them after he got the info.

If he shot two of them on the spot, he might have lost his chance to get any info.

Just because he bluffed at one time doesn't mean he wasn't serious about the manifest.

That doesn't really make sense. Why not just throw them out of the plane then? The first guy refused to talk, why keep him on board and throw him aside? The point is, Bane called his bluff about not throwing them off the plane, how did he know the whole "the flight plan that I listed for the agency includes, me, my men, Dr. Pavel here and only ONE of you" wasn't just an intimidation tactic to get them to talk (which it most likely was)? It was probably against policy to dispose of them in such a manner anyway seeing as though he was a CIA agent. Threatening them with the flight plan and throwing them off the plane were all a part of an interrogation technique, clearly. It doesn't make sense for a highly tactical Bane to just assume he was telling the truth about the flight plan but not throwing them off the plane. It's silly. It's sort of like the TDK prologue with the Joker. How did he know that the Bank Manager would come into play in part of his plan and knock off Chuckles? He couldn't possibly know that.

[Spideyfan93]

I've been thinking about Tom's delivery of some of his lines and he sounds very optimistic in the tone of his voice.

Like when he says "the fire rises", his voice pitch increases for emphasis. It's unique but weird lol.

[The_Fire_Rises]

I'm waiting to see the prologue in the context of the entire movie before I really comment on the apparent ridiculousness of the blood transfusion bit, but when it comes down to it, I think it's just another example of Nolan including more fanstastical and perhaps illogical elements of comic books in his Bat films.

In Begins, we had the evaporation machine and in Dark Knight we had the whole sonar thing at the end. Stuff like that tends to contradict the gritter, more realistic approach that the films are set in, but I still enjoy them. They are comic book movies after all.

That being said, I love pretty much everything about Bane during the six minute scene and still can't wait for this freakin' movie to come out.

[Travesty]

Ha, is that pic from Batman and Dracula?

[Name-That-movie]

Searching for him? Who cares, he takes over all of Gotham. Why would he be worried about the CIA, especially when he kills Pavel on live TV during the football scene? He obviously doesn't care about being caught.

You just don't get it, he didn't take Pavel then fly to Gothom and blow up Heinz field. Bane is still known as a mercenarie. These two things didn't happen even remotely close to each other.

[Nevincer]

@ Spideyfan

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1518/battrollemotefinal.png It's the weird/unique way they've gone about his voice that I really love about him. They could have gone with something really cool sounding, but also generic so it wouldn't stick in our minds. Nolan's Bane could really go on to be something iconic.

[Nevincer]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (1 members and 0 guests)

Seriously? Curse you, lag! I'm alone in here now... http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/003/619/Untitled-1.jpg?1288903617

At least, apparently I am.

[バット人]

Not any more!

[Nevincer]

Wow, that went on for a while. Superherohype! Take control! You must take control of your servers!
http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4e36e9096bb3f7fc3a000009/bane-dark-knight-rises.png

[-Arya-]

Prologue was superb in Imax. The audio was, unsurprisingly, a lot more crisp and I understood everything Bane said ( of course, this was probably due to my prior knowledge of the script). We'll see if the voice becomes a pressing issue when the film releases.

[QueenChaos]

I've been thinking about Tom's delivery of some of his lines and he sounds very optimistic in the tone of his voice.

Like when he says "the fire rises", his voice pitch increases for emphasis. It's unique but weird lol.

I find it intriguing, definitely stood out to me as well.
That same vein of pitch is there when he calmly states he will be crashing the plane.

[QueenChaos]

Wow, that wen't on for a while. Superherohype! Take control! You must take control of your servers!
http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4e36e9096bb3f7fc3a000009/bane-dark-knight-rises.png

:awesome:

[Travesty]

You just don't get it, he didn't take Pavel then fly to Gothom and blow up Heinz field. Bane is still known as a mercenarie. These two things didn't happen even remotely close to each other.And you still don't get it. The whole thing is ridiculous, that was just one point out of the entire plan that doesn't add up. So he makes a half assed attempt at a blood transfusion, but doesn't worry about hair, dental records, bullets littered throughout the plane, a tail section ripped off, one of his men left behind etc, and the ONLY thing that is going to throw anybody off his tracks is the blood transfusion.

:dry: Ok....

[craigdbfan]

Wow, that wen't on for a while. Superherohype! Take control! You must take control of your servers!
http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4e36e9096bb3f7fc3a000009/bane-dark-knight-rises.png

:lmao:

[QueenChaos]

Now i'm alone here...
feels like an apocalypse hit.

[venus_ice]

Wow, that wen't on for a while. Superherohype! Take control! You must take control of your servers!
http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4e36e9096bb3f7fc3a000009/bane-dark-knight-rises.png

:lmao:

I had a mild panic attack thinking something epic happened while I was away.

[Van Petrol]

Wow, that went on for a while. Superherohype! Take control! You must take control of your servers!
http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4e36e9096bb3f7fc3a000009/bane-dark-knight-rises.png

It's probably because of him, his prologue and the trailer that we're in this mess... :o :oldrazz:

[Nevincer]

It's probably because of him, his prologue and the trailer that we're in this mess... :o :oldrazz:
How? We're not allowed to post either here :oldrazz:

[Van Petrol]

How? We're not allowed to post either here :oldrazz:

Well that's because the compromise is made up by the ongoing discussion's concerning them, which is the instrument of our liberation! :oldrazz:

[Name-That-movie]

And you still don't get it. The whole thing is ridiculous, that was just one point out of the entire plan that doesn't add up. So he makes a half assed attempt at a blood transfusion, but doesn't worry about hair, dental records, bullets littered throughout the plane, a tail section ripped off, one of his men left behind etc, and the ONLY thing that is going to throw anybody off his tracks is the blood transfusion.

:dry: Ok....

Not sure if you've seen any photos from plane wrecks before but there really arn't a lot of identifiable remains. The only way to identify persons in plane crashs is by DNA testing, hence why you don't need 10 gallons of Pavel's blood.

And yes the plane is obviously torn up beyond just a normal crash, but all signs are going to point towards Pavel being on it.

I think we've both exhausted our sides of the discussion. Much like last nights debate on double edits. Call a truce on this :)

[Blue Sugar]

Logic in movies is somewhat overrated. It's not something I think about that much, especially not if everything else in the movie immerse me. I rather take something cool over something more logical.

[Name-That-movie]

Logic in movies is somewhat overrated. It's not something I think about that much, especially not if everything else in the movie immerse me. I rather take something cool over something more logical.

Agreed

[Name-That-movie]

Double post

[Nevincer]

I'm actually looking forward to them reinventing Batman, because even though it won't be the same cast or director the legacy left by these films should keep the quality intact, whilst at the same time probably going for something very different where we can disperse with all this 'realism' nonsense. I'd love to see Mr. Freeze and various other rogues.

[Travesty]

Not sure if you've seen any photos from plane wrecks before but there really arn't a lot of identifiable remains. The only way to identify persons in plane crashs is by DNA testing, hence why you don't need 10 gallons of Pavel's blood.

And yes the plane is obviously torn up beyond just a normal crash, but all signs are going to point towards Pavel being on it. Still don't buy it, and it's still in the realm of ridiculousness. Also, dental records.

I can suspend my disbelief for it, but I can also point out how stupid it is. Kinda like how Joker shot down the Batwing with one bullet. Sure, if it works it works, but it's still ridiculous.

I think we've both exhausted our sides of the discussion. Much like last nights debate on double edits. Call a truce on this :)I don't know what you're talking about 'double edits'(unless I was blackout posting), but ok, agree to disagree.

[Travesty]

Logic in movies is somewhat overrated. It's not something I think about that much, especially not if everything else in the movie immerse me. I rather take something cool over something more logical.It's just looking at something critically. When I watch Forever, I can look over the nipples on the suit, but at the end of the day, they're there.

[zmystico]

Joker in TDK:
It looked cool and that's why Nolan did it. It was only a momentary thing.

Bane in TDKR prologue:
This wasnt a momentary thing. Nolan made the transfusion a huge deal. Those guys carried a dead guy from one plane to the other to do this, so its not something that you can easily overlook. But it doesnt work:
1) They barely transfused any blood. Doesnt the body have its own blood? How will the police get the sample bane wants?
2) I dont think you can transfuse a dead body. They did press his chest to pump his heart but that wouldnt get the blood to circulate well enough for that.
3) Wouldnt the coroner see that the guy was dead long before the crash?
4) The CIA agent was bluffing. So i'm guessing they expected 3 guys and not just one.

But out of all of them, its the first one that bugs me the most.

If they went to the trouble of bringing a dead body, I think it's plausible that they drained the body of it's blood (they do that when they embalm). Also, it's a plane crash, they are not expecting to find ALL of Pavel's blood, just enough to prove he was there. Although Nolan has gone for as much realism as possible, some things (namely this) will just have to go with it as plausible...I mean is it actually possible for majority of the things Batman does?

[wikum]

i agree, there was probably a better way to do it than a mid-air blood transfusion. i just can't think of one right now.

another thing, wouldn't everyone be killed by the plane doors being opened (and the plane being cut open)?

[RachelDawes]

Still don't buy it, and it's still in the realm of ridiculousness. Also, dental records.

But why would they bother checking his dental records? If they find his blood in a mangled body in a crash, surely that'll be good enough for them. In movieland, anyway.

[The Caped Knight]

Well Nolan said he just started working editing and all so the audio and dubbing should all be fixed by release.


I think the voice sound good but it need a little extra dark dubbing ala Dark Vader just without the breathing noise.

[craigdbfan]

Still don't buy it, and it's still in the realm of ridiculousness. Also, dental records.Who's to say the decoy body didn't already have his teeth removed?

His mouth was closed throughout that entire scene.

[Travesty]

But why would they bother checking his dental records? If they find his blood in a mangled body in a crash, surely that'll be good enough for them. In movieland, anyway. Because that wasn't Pavel, nor looked like him. When finding a match on a person, there are steps to take to identify a body, the first is fingerprints, the second is dental records(which may be the first if the victim is burned), and the very last being DNA/blood tests. Also, while testing blood samples for DNA, it's almost always common practice to make sure you get the same DNA results from other methods like swabs, hair, etc

And if his body was mangled at all, I'm certain dental records are going to be the #1 test, cause there could be a mix of blood, seeing as how there are multiple amounts of bodies on board the plane. ;)

[DarkKnight FTW]

I think the voice sound good but it need a little extra dark dubbing ala Darth Vader just without the breathing noise.

Fixed

[Anita18]

i agree, there was probably a better way to do it than a mid-air blood transfusion. i just can't think of one right now.

another thing, wouldn't everyone be killed by the plane doors being opened (and the plane being cut open)?
They weren't that high. Skydivers open their planes up all the time and don't die. :oldrazz:

[EliteF50]

I think you guys are undermining the damage that'll be made to their bodies in that crash.

[TheDragonator]

Who's to say the decoy body didn't already have his teeth removed?

His mouth was closed throughout that entire scene.

Considering Pavel has teeth, I think that would be a stupid plan.

[Goku Goes Crazy]

I can't wait to see what editors do with the trailer footage when it's official released. Looking forward to some cool fan trailers and edits! :up:

If only the prologue was released online too. Just think of what fans could do with all that footage. The teaser, the trailer, and the prologue. Could really make for some cool fan trailers!

[craigdbfan]

Considering Pavel has teeth, I think that would be a stupid plan.I was playing devils advocate.

Have some of you heard of something called "suspension of disbelief"?

Plus I think some are forgetting that Foley has been rumored to be CIA and is put within the ranks of GPD expecting Bane will head to Gotham.

So it's not like it wont be covered at least I think.

[Travesty]

Who's to say the decoy body didn't already have his teeth removed?

His mouth was closed throughout that entire scene.Wait a minute, this body that has absolutely no teeth, and has a mix of two different blood types is 100% Pavel. No foul play here. Bane had nothing to do with this!:oldrazz:

[Yurka]

Considering the absolute gory mess that will be the aftermath of that plane crash, just having some sort of evidence (blood) that Pavel was in there is enough.

[bullets]

I think if a splotch of Pavel's blood is found in the wreckage , they'll probably assume he was in there and dead.

[Sharkboy]

As flimsy as people think the transfusion plan is...at worse it will keep the CIA investigation stalled long enough so they can get Pavel to create this doomsday device without the agency breathing down their necks.

It certainly beats the CIA looking at the wreckage, finding one of their agents, and the manifest showing a terrorist missing plus a doctor, which would in turn make this a serious situation that would require their immediate attention and their resources in order to investigate and hunt down the LOS.

Instead they find all men accounted for, including a man with blood that matches Pavel, even if they were to figure what really happened it would take some time, enough time for Bane and his gang to get what they need.

This stuff really isn't hard if you have an imagination/common sense.

[Travesty]

This stuff really isn't hard if you have an imagination/common sense.Imagination? maybe. Common sense? Absolutely not.

[bullets]

Thats a good point Sharkboy. Maybe this will actually be addressed more in the film.

[SuperSoldier985]

As with the initial viewing of the prologue for TDK, I was a little bit underwhelmed, albeit briefly. As it sunk in however, especially on the drive home, the prologue here for TDKR and the rest of the footage was really just enough to really get you amped up for the movie but at the same time, you don't have that feeling as if you've just been spoiled too much for yourself. If anything, it was a commercial for IMAX ticket sales...and they just sold me at least two tickets.. :D

[バット人]

Instead they find all men accounted for, including a man with blood that matches Pavel, Not if the CIA agent called in a flight plan that included EVERYONE, including Bane and his follower.

[Dr Zaius]

How do we even know they have Pavel's dental records? He isn't a us citizen and doesn't go to some american dentist that they have records that they can access.

[Sharkboy]

LOL! it really doesn't have to be, i'm already digging further into this than it has to be, it's so very very simple; terrorists do midair transfusion to cover their tracks and mislead the CIA, we aren't supposed to linger on that fact, all it's supposed to show us, is the methodical nature of Bane and his group. Just as the member who stayed presents their devotion to the audience. You are supposed to walk out of that scene thinking, these men are capable, resourceful, competent (enough to do a midair hijack/kidnap while covering their tracks) and most of all absolutely prepared to die for their cause. It's all designed to set up the opposing force of the story.

When you start complaining that the blood transfusion is absolutely useless and makes no sense, then you start criticizing and comparing the CIA's ability in a comic book movie to the real CIA, then you know not only have you failed to suspend your disbelief and take Nolan's plausible tone too seriously, but you are lingering way too much on a point that simply does not matter.

[Sharkboy]

double post.

[Sharkboy]

Not if the CIA agent called in a flight plan that included EVERYONE, including Bane and his follower.

He didn't, assuming it wasn't a bluff (and that's all they can really do) CIA dude, left out everyone but him, Pavel, his men, the pilots and one terrorist. That's all the information Bane has to work with. There was always the risk that he could have been lying.

[the Wankstar]

Geez just imagine if the transfusion part wasnt even in it, this thread would already be closed:whatever:

[paladinryan]

LOL! it really doesn't have to be, i'm already digging further into this than it has to be, it's so very very simple; terrorists do midair transfusion to cover their tracks and mislead the CIA, we aren't supposed to linger on that fact, all it's supposed to show us, is the methodical nature of Bane and his group. Just as the member who stayed presents their devotion to the audience. You are supposed to walk out of that scene thinking, these men are capable, resourceful, competent (enough to do a midair hijack/kidnap while covering their tracks) and most of all absolutely prepared to die for their cause. It's all designed to set up the opposing force of the story.

When you start complaining that the blood transfusion is absolutely useless and makes no sense, then you start criticizing and comparing the CIA's ability in a comic book movie to the real CIA, then you know not only have you failed to suspend your disbelief and take Nolan's plausible tone too seriously, but you are lingering way too much on a point that simply does not matter.

:up:

[Sharkboy]

Geez just imagine if the transfusion part wasnt even in it, this thread would already be closed:whatever:

LOL I know right.

I do love the transfusion part though, it really does look cool, makes it seem more of a calculated heist, rather than just a brutish hijacking.

[paladinryan]

The transfusion part might have something to do with later imagery and themes in the film (of resurrection for example). I think that would be the most important thing about it.

[Mariano]

Its just a film guys, lets not overthink this. Looks cool on screen and its a way to show some inteligence by the hijackers, but thats it. It wont work in a real scenario

If you have to do a reality check, let me tell you, in any wreckage like this, or accident of big magnitud, blood is the last thing in the list to do a dna test. Tissue, hair, teeth, nails, bones, are the most common subject to be analized.

Just my two cents :)

[Travesty]

When you start complaining that the blood transfusion is absolutely useless and makes no sense, then you start criticizing and comparing the CIA's ability in a comic book movie to the real CIA, then you know not only have you failed to suspend your disbelief and take Nolan's plausible tone too seriously, but you are lingering way too much on a point that simply does not matter.Of course I know why they did it, it's just a stupid little plot point. But it's just as lame as The Joker shooting down the Batwing with one bullet. It has nothing to do with "taking Nolan's plausible world too seriously", it's just stating something that's completely ridiculous, and explaining why. And while I'm watching, of course I'll suspend my disbelief, but what the hell does that have to do with this conversation? You're just throwing in the towel, with nothing to back it up with.

If you explain in detail something that bugs you around here, you're taking yourself too seriously or whining. If you don't explain yourself enough, you're trolling.

I guess the only thing to do around here, is talk about what a genius Nolan is, and how his story is super tight?