The Wrestling Thread Saw the End of An Era - Part 55

[TheOnlyOmega]

Rumored Main Events for WM 29:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1133771-wwe-news-rumored-three-main-events-for-wrestlemania-29-revealed

I don't agree with any of them.

The way I would do it:

1) John Cena vs. The Rock II for the WWE Title

2) Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Brock Lesnar.

3) The Undertaker vs. CM Punk in 'Taker's retirement match.
I don't see the need for a Cena/Rock II, it should remain a once in a lifetime match if you ask me.

[AntMan]

Damien Sandow Debut Promo: UBfPqu4s6LQ

[Dr. Evil]

The Discovery Channel released the following:

DEADLIEST CATCH PARTNERS WITH WWE® FOR A BRAND NEW SEASON

Silver Spring, Md., April 6, 2012 – Discovery Channel is partnering with WWE (NYSE:WWE) on a powerhouse promotion for Deadliest Catch, celebrating its 100th episode with the show's Tuesday, April 10, 2012 premiere. Anchored by a first-ever integration, Catch crew and WWE Superstars came face-to-face at WrestleMania XXVIII on April 1, broadcasted to millions around the world on payper-view and in front of the record-setting, sold out stadium of 78,363 fans.

"We could have just bought an ad, but to have an opportunity to bring these two brands together and really engage the fans with our content was really important to us," said Discovery's Chief Marketing Officer David Shackley. Plus the partnership is multi-platform across WWE television programming, WWE.com, live events and social media.

Custom Deadliest Catch elements will be part of an integrated presence on WWE.com through mid-April including: exclusive video with WWE talent promoting Deadliest Catch; a "Battle Mode" game where fans pick their favorite Catch characters; and a tournament-style "Bracketology" where users vote for their favorite "catches" in WWE history.

Homepage takeovers, Facebook alerts from WWE talent and live events presence running through the premiere of Deadliest Catch on April 10 promises to bring this integrated, pulse-pounding promotion to millions of potential viewers.

[TheOnlyOmega]

That was a pretty good promo from Sandow. Can't wait for his debut.

[epc11223]

with what they're doing for wrestlemania 29, does anyone else get the feeling that wrestlemania is like black friday for wwe? black friday is when you get the best deals just before the holiday (for the most part) and thats where companies make most of their money for the year. seems like wwe put the most effort for wrestlemania to get the biggest and best "buys". they used to have a pay per view every other month; with a king of the ring/in your house thrown in. then you have 12 pay per views and they used to try to make the big four special, or tried to. Now it seems like the wwe just really cares about wrestlemania. with what they're planning for next year, throw in hbk in some capacity and it's a pretty awesome looking mania.

rock vs brock
cena vs taker
austin vs punk

this seems like a really great start. maybe have a jericho vs ziggler, a tag team match, a womans match, then a specialty match.

[Van Petrol]

Anybody ever see The Rock's custom belt that was made for him, but never made it to tv?...

http://i.imgur.com/cXD5e.jpg

[Team Andino]

Damien Sandow Debut Promo: UBfPqu4s6LQ
Of all the time I've seen him in FCW he never showed me anything that made him worth watching. In this one promo though that all changed. Awesome promo to introduce himself to the main roster to. Nice to see some people coming up with actual character. Looking forward to seeing more.

[Van Petrol]

Damien Sandow Debut Promo: UBfPqu4s6LQ

Good promo! Looks like we have our New Era 'Blue Blood' Hunter Hearst Helmsley here. :oldrazz: :D

[Sith Scotti]

If that were the case then I would be in the wrong. But it isn't a case of him getting overshadowed (that I wouldn't have a problem, considering it being warranted), it's a case of him being made the scapegoat.

And you're welcome.
Don't blame the fans Blame the wwe . The wwe turned a heel into a baby face andf the guy they were pushing as a face into the heel , by the way the botched it . I can't blame the fansd for supporting Bryamy / He got scred , I feel bad for Sheamus , but do not call me or any other Bryan fan a moron . It is the wwe that are the morons that created the mess

[LuisTX85]

Good promo! Looks like we have our New Era 'Blue Blood' Hunter Hearst Helmsley here. :oldrazz: :D

Agreed!

[Dr. Evil]

Damien Sandow Debut Promo: UBfPqu4s6LQ

He looks to have potential.

[Metallo]

If they think that, they're fools. Because being friends with Triple H didn't stop Sheamus' poorly booked title reigns.

They should consider putting Del Rio in the midcard or let him feud with Orton so Sheamus and Bryan can finish their feud. Sheamus needs some repairing and Bryan's popularity is pretty strong. Del Rio wasn't really over a few months ago, and the audience wasn't caring on Monday, so it's no big loss.

Del Rio can keep his character but otherwise he needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. I agree he should start in the midcard and work his way back up again. His runs in the main event were utter snoozefests because he wasn't ready. He got hotshotted there so fast that people didn't have a chance to develop any kind of interest in him.

Its like his two WWF title runs literally do not matter. I've seen transitional champions that were more impressive yet they clearly intend for Alberto to be a major player.


Anybody ever see The Rock's custom belt that was made for him, but never made it to tv?...

http://i.imgur.com/cXD5e.jpg

Jeez...thank God it didn't. :funny: Austins Smoking Skull belt was badass. That looks hilarious. Seriously...am I SUPPOSED to be laughing at it? Was it meant to draw that kind of heat?

I'd rank that right next to Jeff Hardy's Immortal belt. The bull looks like its being tugged by the scrote or cranking a link out the back.

[Dr. Evil]

Del Rio got pushed so fast because the WWE was (and still is) looking for a replacement for Rey Mysterio to market to Hispanics.

[Van Petrol]

Don't blame the fans Blame the wwe . The wwe turned a heel into a baby face andf the guy they were pushing as a face into the heel , by the way the botched it . I can't blame the fansd for supporting Bryamy / He got scred , I feel bad for Sheamus , but do not call me or any other Bryan fan a moron . It is the wwe that are the morons that created the mess

I do blame the WWE not ALL the fans. I should have just said SOME D-bry fans are morons from the start, as I have obviously offended ALL with that comment and I apologise for it. I was just so irate at the time of reading most of those types of comments and I vented too soon.

Though by the same token those 'morons' I were referring to should also blame the WWE and not Sheamus, nor should they insult him as some have been doing. Insulting him harshly willy nilly for no real reason, other than being butt-hurt for Bryan being screwed when Sheamo was merely just a prop in the whole debacle, doesn't get them off with me though. And therefore, those who make and have made those comments and thrown harsh insults at him are still 'morons', considering these such fans also like to proclaim they are 'wise' and 'know' how things work. With all due respect.

[AntMan]

Of all the time I've seen him in FCW he never showed me anything that made him worth watching. In this one promo though that all changed. Awesome promo to introduce himself to the main roster to. Nice to see some people coming up with actual character. Looking forward to seeing more.

Eh, I've liked his matches with Richie Steamboat and Dean Ambrose. I also like this promo: g4vtYX02z10

[Dr. Evil]

So the FCW 15 Champion wears a medal instead of a belt?

[louiebling$]

Damien Sandow Debut Promo: UBfPqu4s6LQ
Great Promo..Made me a Fan :up:

[Dr. Evil]

Hopefully Damien Sandow is a better gimmick for Aaron Stevens then his last WWE gimmick.

So far so good.

[Van Petrol]

Jeez...thank God it didn't. :funny: Austins Smoking Skull belt was badass. That looks hilarious. Seriously...am I SUPPOSED to be laughing at it? Was it meant to draw that kind of heat?

I'd rank that right next to Jeff Hardy's Immortal belt. The bull looks like its being tugged by the scrote or cranking a link out the back.

I was contemplating putting an emphatic LOL in my original post, but I thought I'd leave it. It doesn't even compare to the 'Smoking Skull' belt, imo, and looks more fitting as wall ornamnet rather than a belt. :hehe:

[AntMan]

So the FCW 15 Champion wears a medal instead of a belt?

Yep. For those pointing out the similarities between Sandow and blue blood HHH, Sandow and HHH were both trained by Killer Kowalski. He reminds me of HHH in his earlier days in-ring wise as well.

[Team Andino]

Eh, I've liked his matches with Richie Steamboat and Dean Ambrose. I also like this promo: g4vtYX02z10
That was great, see the last thing I've seen of him was before he grew the beard. Kinda felt like he was aimlessly wondering around FCW looking for a specific look or gimmick. Looks like he found it.

[Dragon_316ca]

http://www.wweshop.com/item/daniel-bryan-yes-authentic-t-shirt/NewUpcoming/01-16384
http://i.imgur.com/y2rl7.jpg

:woot:

[Anno_Domini]

Rumored Main Events for WM 29:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1133771-wwe-news-rumored-three-main-events-for-wrestlemania-29-revealed

I don't agree with any of them.

The way I would do it:

1) John Cena vs. The Rock II for the WWE Title

2) Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Brock Lesnar.

3) The Undertaker vs. CM Punk in 'Taker's retirement match.

Cena/Rock may work with the WWE title on the line, but I am partially into the idea of Lesnar/Rock for the title if someone who won the MitB match wins the title to end the PPV(someone like Barrett or Ziggler). Plus, if they do feel like ending 'Taker's streak next year, it should be the face of the brand to end it, not the number two face, and that's Cena. And also...a lot of people wants to see Austin and Punk, way more than anyone who wanted to see Rock and Cena. I like the rumored card as is, but it'll probably be changed.

[Anno_Domini]

Anybody ever see The Rock's custom belt that was made for him, but never made it to tv?...

http://i.imgur.com/cXD5e.jpg

****ing badass....

is there some way I can buy this?

[louiebling$]

http://www.wweshop.com/item/daniel-bryan-yes-authentic-t-shirt/newupcoming/01-16384
http://i.imgur.com/y2rl7.jpg

:woot:

......


.....






....


Yess!!!

Yess!!!!


Yess!!!!

[Superark]

http://www.wweshop.com/item/daniel-bryan-yes-authentic-t-shirt/NewUpcoming/01-16384
http://i.imgur.com/y2rl7.jpg

:woot:


I was logging in just to post this image and you beat me to it :yay:

This shirt is awesome

[Van Petrol]

http://www.wweshop.com/item/daniel-bryan-yes-authentic-t-shirt/NewUpcoming/01-16384
http://i.imgur.com/y2rl7.jpg

:woot:

Eh...I like this design better.....

http://i.imgur.com/Pqzbe.jpg

[Van Petrol]

****ing badass....

is there some way I can buy this?

I don't think so. They've never reproduced it as a replica.

[King of Kings]

Think I might have to buy that t-shirt.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

[louiebling$]

Eh...I like this design better.....

http://i.imgur.com/Pqzbe.jpg

O yea this better

[LuisTX85]

Brock vs Rock as WM29's title headliner may be seen as a business mistake in many ways But as a FAN(most important thing)I'd personally love it cause I feel it could even better than their SS match(I think Brock will show he's improved with his MMA experience)/Rock promos will be much fresher than digging at Cena/and I'm a HUGE fan of BOTH!

People talk about"part-timers"But based on Brock's deal..He's technically part of the active roster,He ain't full-time But he ain't a part timer like Rock either and it's for the whole year,After that you have no clue IF he will leave or stay cause he's likely retired from UFC for good and this deal is good for him and he can easily sign another year or so after this return/comeback run!!!

Austin vs Punk is a dream match and seeing Austin play 2nd fiddle to Rock&others would be bittersweet But I'd defiantly take the match on the card!

Cena vs Taker-I expected this years ago,Would be unpredictable even more than Taker's last 4 Mania matches cause Taker is very near retirement&has already gotten 20-0 and Cena is..Cena plus I'm sure Taker is willing to put him over than few others are!!!

[RavenX]

but what would Cena really accomplish if he ended Taker's streak?

[Phatman]

Del Rio can keep his character but otherwise he needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. I agree he should start in the midcard and work his way back up again. His runs in the main event were utter snoozefests because he wasn't ready. He got hotshotted there so fast that people didn't have a chance to develop any kind of interest in him.

Its like his two WWF title runs literally do not matter. I've seen transitional champions that were more impressive yet they clearly intend for Alberto to be a major player.




Jeez...thank God it didn't. :funny: Austins Smoking Skull belt was badass. That looks hilarious. Seriously...am I SUPPOSED to be laughing at it? Was it meant to draw that kind of heat?

I'd rank that right next to Jeff Hardy's Immortal belt. The bull looks like its being tugged by the scrote or cranking a link out the back.

I have to agree with you on Del Rio. He's got a good character but he was pushed WAY too soon into the main event. On this rebuild he should be developed in the mid-card and build some heat. I'd have him work with guys like Ryder and maybe work towards an IC title run and maybe feud for the IC belt.

[SpideyInATree]

Finally got around to watching Wrestlemania and the RAW afterwards. That crowd on RAW was freakin' HOT. And they were REALLY pro Daniel Bryan, hahaha. I was cracking up because everytime CM Punk was hitting Mark Henry the crowd kept chanting "YES! YES!" :woot:

Things really seemed to backfire on them but I don't know if it was that crowd or if that's how all the crowds are going to be. They seemed to be against Sheamus and for Daniel Bryan.

Also...that Triple H/Undertaker match was freakin' fantastic. Easily the best match on the card closely followed by the Punk/Jericho match. And I'm also liking that Jericho is still digging on the alcohol thing.

[LuisTX85]

but what would Cena really accomplish if he ended Taker's streak?

Beating another big name in the business and adding the broken streak of 20 years of WM history,But other than that not much..Which I don't care about anyway!!!

I don't care what's in it for Cena cause I just care as a fan that the match could be great/A HUGE WM moment with Taker FINALLY losing his streak&Cena getting the biggest WM moment of all!!!

[Anno_Domini]

but what would Cena really accomplish if he ended Taker's streak?

He's the one that truly ended an era...the Attitude era. 'Taker is really the "Last Outlaw" from the AE that's really still standing. John Cena defeats Undertaker and finally ends the Attitude Era and people will forget about his lost to Rock.

Plus, I could see this as Cena gets beat by Rock and whoever comes in his path and he could finally become fed up with it all and enter himself into a match with Undertaker, finally beating 'Taker and breaking his losing streak while ending 'Taker's own and respectively personal streak. I wouldn't mind seeing that story for John.

[bullets]

Damien Sandow Debut Promo: UBfPqu4s6LQ


Reminds me of "The Genius " Lanny Poffo .



but what would Cena really accomplish if he ended Taker's streak?

It could be a way for Cena to get his big win after losing to the Rock. It's probably not going to happen though. I could just imagine the chorus of boos

[Project862006]

i think if anyone should break it

should be someone like cm punk

a guy who can benefit from it

cena is'nt gonna get any bigger as a star

[kal-el1990]

He's the one that truly ended an era...the Attitude era. 'Taker is really the "Last Outlaw" from the AE that's really still standing. John Cena defeats Undertaker and finally ends the Attitude Era and people will forget about his lost to Rock.

Plus, I could see this as Cena gets beat by Rock and whoever comes in his path and he could finally become fed up with it all and enter himself into a match with Undertaker, finally beating 'Taker and breaking his losing streak while ending 'Taker's own and respectively personal streak. I wouldn't mind seeing that story for John.

That would be awesome and a way I wouldn't mind the streak ending! The idea of cena ending the streak never appealed to me but thats a fantastic way of doing it. I doubt the wwe will do it that way though.
Brock vs rock would be a great match I think.

[TheOnlyOmega]

If the WWE wants people to think Taker will lose again at next years Wrestlemania, the only way is for an I Quit Match with Cena. Who wouldnt want to see that?

[SpideyFan866]

If the WWE wants people to think Taker will lose again at next years Wrestlemania, the only way is for an I Quit Match with Cena. Who wouldnt want to see that?

No thank you.

If anyone's gonna end the streak, it has to be Punk. He's the only person that there is really no reasons why he shouldn't be the one to do it.

John Cena ending the streak? That would be more controversial than if Cena beat Rock at Mania 28.

[Team Andino]

http://www.wweshop.com/item/daniel-bryan-yes-authentic-t-shirt/NewUpcoming/01-16384
http://i.imgur.com/y2rl7.jpg

:woot:Needs more Yes's

[the_ultimate_evil]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c185/the_ultimate_evil/zangief.jpg

[Calavera]

i cant get mania out of my head. that was such an awesome show :(

[louiebling$]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c185/the_ultimate_evil/zangief.jpg

I posted this a Few Pages back

[TheOnlyOmega]

No thank you.

If anyone's gonna end the streak, it has to be Punk. He's the only person that there is really no reasons why he shouldn't be the one to do it.

John Cena ending the streak? That would be more controversial than if Cena beat Rock at Mania 28.
I never said he'd end it, IMO the streak should never end, if Punk did it it would cause nothing but backlash. Cena's Never Give Up mentality would really make it a dramatic clash. Who doesn't want to see Cena say 'I Quit'?

[AntMan]

I never said he'd end it, IMO the streak should never end, if Punk did it it would cause nothing but backlash. Cena's Never Give Up mentality would really make it a dramatic clash. Who doesn't want to see Cena say 'I Quit'?

If Cena ever submits then I would rather WWE do an angle where Bryan is the first to make Cena tap. They have a match at a PPV and Cena has Bryan up for the AA, then Bryan slips off his shoulders, and wrap his legs around Cena proceeding to apply a guillotine choke.

[Team Andino]

At this point I don't think anybody should end the streak. I think it would add an unnecessary stigma with them whether it be Cena, Punk, or w/e.

[Nightmare]

Maybe that entire feud with taker would turn cena heel especially by beating the legendary streak and the undertaker.

[TomServo]

I'm glad that Brock is back b/c I think it was a needed boost w/ Rock leaving for the time being. But with his attitude I just can't escape the feeling that something will go down and he won't last the year. I hope I'm wrong, but that's just my thought.

[TheOnlyOmega]

If Cena ever submits then I would rather WWE do an angle where Bryan is the first to make Cena tap. They have a match at a PPV and Cena has Bryan up for the AA, then Bryan slips off his shoulders, and wrap his legs around Cena proceeding to apply a guillotine choke.
2FXh4vii9xA
Cena has tapped before. But if someone were to do it now theyd be over for life, great way to catapult Bryan.

[DX]

On the proposed Wrestlemania main events:

Why not just do Rock/Cena II, Punk/HHH and Brock/Undertaker?

Oh wait, hold on, that actually makes sense. Can't have that, can we? :o

[venom892]

I don't think Lesnar/Rock for the title is a good idea at all. To be honest it won't be anywhere near as good as their first match ten years ago and I feel it be impossible to live to expectations. I think Lesnar/Taker is a better way to go and since Lesnar has major wins over Taker, storyline wise it puts the streak in danger.

[AntMan]

2FXh4vii9xA
Cena has tapped before. But if someone were to do it now theyd be over for life, great way to catapult Bryan.

Yeah but he hasn't tapped since becoming the superface, so I doubt WWE would acknowledge it.

[Nemi]

Has anyone here seen Cena's comments on the SuperCena nickname?

[Dr. Evil]

PWInsider.com is reporting that the annual WWE roster cuts may be coming soon. WWE debuted four new talents to the roster this past week and as previosuly reported, several FCW stars are on the radar to be called up in the near future.

WWE is known for making cuts over the years after WrestleMania, as they evaluate talent and look forward to the year of programming ahead.

[MMMMM...Dounuts]

This is why I think they should bring back a third brand. Too much wasted potential.

[Dr. Evil]

This is why I think they should bring back a third brand. Too much wasted potential.

NXT is sort of a 3rd brand, except without a title.

Of course, the rumor mill said that the WWE would release a bunch of people last year at this time. Only Edge retired.

[TheOnlyOmega]

I see a huge purge of current talent. There is so much talent in FCW that the current undercard will be disposable.

[Dr. Evil]

Wait, what?

http://www.thewrestlingcafe.com/lita-returning-to-wwe.php

Probably a short term thing.

[venom892]

That article is four months old. Probably not going to happen.

[The Batman]

I prefer the Deadman look but I liked some of ABA's promo's. I wish we got to see Undertaker do more interviews.

One of the few ABA promos I liked was the one he cut on Hulk Hogan...and of course the "Say what if you sleep with your sister" line.

[AntMan]

I prefer ministry Taker's promo's and ABA's matches. Takers promo's haven't been as entertaining since 2004 in my opinion.

[AntMan]

The WWE Raw Supershow on Monday, June 11th, 2012 will be a 3-hour episode, airing from 8 to 11 PM. It's being held at the XL Center in Hartford, Connecticut. Tickets go on sale Friday, April 13th, 2012 http://www.pwinsider.com/article/67441/new-three-hour-raw-confirmed.html?p=1

[venom892]

I hope they bring back King of the Ring for one of these 3 hour raws. I'd have a tournament that includes Daniel Bryan, Kofi Kingston, Zack Ryder, Jack Swagger,Dolph Ziggler,Santino Marella,Cody Rhodes, and R-truth. This is how I'd have the tournament go.

Round 1
Ziggler d. R-truth
Zack Ryder d. Jack Swagger
Rhodes d. Santino
Bryan d. Kingston

Round 2
Ryder d. Ziggler
Bryan d. Rhodes

finals
Bryan d. Ryder

It would take the YES! to the next level.

[JabarR]

I feel bad for AJ right now.

[Anno_Domini]

No thank you.

If anyone's gonna end the streak, it has to be Punk. He's the only person that there is really no reasons why he shouldn't be the one to do it.

John Cena ending the streak? That would be more controversial than if Cena beat Rock at Mania 28.

With Cena, it's controversial if he beat any one that the crowd likes more than him at a WrestleMania.

And if we get a chance to see Austin/Punk at WM 29, then that match needs to happen. If it messes up for a 'Taker/Punk match, then so be it. As I said, Cena could definitely be going up against Rock for the WWE title, but my second guess would be Cena/'Taker.

[Kaleb]

I feel bad for AJ right now.

Meh ,got a feeling this is all a swerve and she will help Bryan get the title back as well as her.

[AntMan]

Do you guys think Dean Ambrose might debut on Tuesday since Foley will be on Smackdown Goes Old School?

[The Sage]

I'm glad that Brock is back b/c I think it was a needed boost w/ Rock leaving for the time being. But with his attitude I just can't escape the feeling that something will go down and he won't last the year. I hope I'm wrong, but that's just my thought.

I have the same concern, but I'm hoping that Brock's attitude has changed over time. And I'm also hoping that the reliance on Brock and Rock won't reduce the focus on pushing new stars. It's already weak as it is and needs to be improved.

[Hunter Rider]

Not to be snarky but Punk isn't ending the streak, Cena isn't tapping to Bryan or going heel, and Steve Austin wont work any Mania unless his match is the main attraction.

Thanks. At least I know I'm not going crazy in thinking I'm the ultimate bane of the status quo, or maybe I am to some. :oldrazz:

Personally, I don't think he has the stroke at the moment, to be able to have any real say of any meaning to influence the decisions that are made.

Heh! :D :up:

I agree, but you know how these types of theories tend to brew on the net.

I’ve been watching Undertaker videos, which serve to remind me of one thing:

ABA Undertaker is easily the most overrated incarnation of The Undertaker. Easily. It’s like the post crisis version of Superman: Essentially taking a character who was much better being portrayed as “god like” and making him dull and bland in an attempt to “reflect modern times”. ABA’s best aspect (his wrestling ability) could easily be applied to the Deadman character, and pretty much was with his current incarnation. He didn’t need to be ABA to put on those matches with Flair, HHH, Lesnar, etc. Lord of Darkness and Ministry Taker show that he can be the Deadman and cut some good promos, so its not like Taker needed to turn “human” to do that. The only time ABA Taker was interesting was when he went heel….and even then, he got boring again quick. I don’t blame Vince for pretending that ABA never existed.

So, basically, I’ll take a zombie, however unrealistic it is, over a redneck on a motorcycle. Especially since Austin does the redneck gimmick a whole lot better.

ABA is easily my favourite Taker, great matches and promos with no eye rolling silliness.

If they think that, they're fools. Because being friends with Triple H didn't stop Sheamus' poorly booked title reigns.

They should consider putting Del Rio in the midcard or let him feud with Orton so Sheamus and Bryan can finish their feud. Sheamus needs some repairing and Bryan's popularity is pretty strong. Del Rio wasn't really over a few months ago, and the audience wasn't caring on Monday, so it's no big loss.

Hell being Haitch's buddy didn't stop him getting demolished as an afterthought by him last year.

Vince has a thing for Del Rio, his match with Sheamus on SD was decent but you can tell Booker and co have been told to sell him hard, I think we are stuck with him in the main event.

I don't see the need for a Cena/Rock II, it should remain a once in a lifetime match if you ask me.

:up:

Anybody ever see The Rock's custom belt that was made for him, but never made it to tv?...

http://i.imgur.com/cXD5e.jpg

Same design template as the tag title belts.

http://www.wweshop.com/item/daniel-bryan-yes-authentic-t-shirt/NewUpcoming/01-16384
http://i.imgur.com/y2rl7.jpg

:woot:

:applaud

Brock vs Rock as WM29's title headliner may be seen as a business mistake in many ways But as a FAN(most important thing)I'd personally love it cause I feel it could even better than their SS match(I think Brock will show he's improved with his MMA experience)/Rock promos will be much fresher than digging at Cena/and I'm a HUGE fan of BOTH!

People talk about"part-timers"But based on Brock's deal..He's technically part of the active roster,He ain't full-time But he ain't a part timer like Rock either and it's for the whole year,After that you have no clue IF he will leave or stay cause he's likely retired from UFC for good and this deal is good for him and he can easily sign another year or so after this return/comeback run!!!

Here's the thing, this match sells tickets regardless so there zero point in putting the belt into the match. As Rock explained about his match with Cena, the belt needed to stay on the champ and the match him and Cena sold without it, thus keeping tow positive things going at once.

I also don't see it being a better match or even close. Rock is rusty and has lost some of that fluid ad springy style he had, and Lesnar has had a serious illness that has sapped some of his strength and athleticism, so he will probably be reluctant when working to overdo things.

Do you guys think Dean Ambrose might debut on Tuesday since Foley will be on Smackdown Goes Old School?

Live SD next week?

[Hunter Rider]

I thought SD was a bit bland for a post-Mania show, nothing really stood out at all, they couldn't really make Kane vs Orton mean less if they tried.

Bryan's promo with AJ was probably the highlight but the way they tried to manipulate some of the audio was lame.

Ryback's debut was the polar opposite of Tensai's which was pretty much a perfect monster heel debut. Ryback comes out with no build up after some jobber cuts a promo you can barely hear, and the match is then interrupted by shots of jobbers watching the monitor back stage and giggling. :huh: Ryback himself looked impressive enough but what a dreadful debut.

[brainchild81]

Because you'd rather watch people like Santino and Brodus Clay take up air times?Yes. Santino can be entertaining at times & Brodus has Naomi w/him. HHH & UT have nothing left to prove & if they ain't about putting over the younger talent that's still gonna be here after they're gone, I'd like them to retire.No thank you.

If anyone's gonna end the streak, it has to be Punk. He's the only person that there is really no reasons why he shouldn't be the one to do it.It would be cool for UT to finally do something to help Punk's career rather than bury him.- WWE had a business meeting on March 31st in Miami with major executives. It was described as an easy going meeting where they were pushing social media. R-Truth and Brodus Clay were brought in to dance.
W T F?! A boardroom filled w/most likely a bunch of white men, & 2black guys dancing for no reason. One of them most likely shirtless. What a weird & racist scene that must have beenCena/Rock may work with the WWE title on the line, but I am partially into the idea of Lesnar/Rock for the title if someone who won the MitB match wins the title to end the PPV(someone like Barrett or Ziggler).Ziggler then. Barrett is nowhere near ready.

[SpideyFan866]

Hunter Rider, Why is it that CM Punk can't end the streak but a part timer like Brock Lesnar and somebody no one wants to see end it like John Cena can't?

[NDX]

i cant get mania out of my head. that was such an awesome show :(

That happens with good shows. Sometimes that feeling lingers for a month.

[Dr. Evil]

I thought SD was a bit bland for a post-Mania show, nothing really stood out at all, they couldn't really make Kane vs Orton mean less if they tried.

Bryan's promo with AJ was probably the highlight but the way they tried to manipulate some of the audio was lame.

Ryback's debut was the polar opposite of Tensai's which was pretty much a perfect monster heel debut. Ryback comes out with no build up after some jobber cuts a promo you can barely hear, and the match is then interrupted by shots of jobbers watching the monitor back stage and giggling. :huh: Ryback himself looked impressive enough but what a dreadful debut.

What did you think of Damien Sandow?

Also, if the WWE wanted to bring someone in without any buildup, it should have been a returning superstar.

[AntMan]

Live SD next week? Yep. MIck Foley comments on twitter: Having a blast with my kids at Disney. Not really concerned about some guy I've never heard of. Dean Ambrose's response: Must be nice to be so arrogant and oblivious. Guilt free family funtime. Just great. Good for you. @realMickFoley

[Team Andino]

Ryback's debut was the polar opposite of Tensai's which was pretty much a perfect monster heel debut. Ryback comes out with no build up after some jobber cuts a promo you can barely hear, and the match is then interrupted by shots of jobbers watching the monitor back stage and giggling. :huh: Ryback himself looked impressive enough but what a dreadful debut.
I've always hated when they debut someone new and do two things with it.

1.) Debut them out of the blue with no hype.
2.) Have them squash a no name local indy jobber.

If those happen then I have to hear the announcers spend the next few minutes talking about how impressive this guy is while beating up someone who's also making their WWE debut (technically).

[Superark]

I might have to budget for some new t-shirts so I can get that Dryan "Yes!" shirt and this new Sting shirt. Love me some Stinger!

https://tnaimages.com/c/WRES-STINGWHITEOUT/l.jpg

[Hunter Rider]

Hunter Rider, Why is it that CM Punk can't end the streak but a part timer like Brock Lesnar and somebody no one wants to see end it like John Cena can't?

I don't think Punk has built up enough of a legacy at this point in time to be the guy to end it, and that's coming from someone that is a huge Punk fan and who has never liked the streak.

What did you think of Damien Sandow

I thought his promo was good, he has a very 80's heel vibe about him.

Yep. MIck Foley comments on twitter: Dean Ambrose's response:

Awesome, I love a live SD and I think we may well see Ambrose debut given the angle is continuing.

I've always hated when they debut someone new and do two things with it.

1.) Debut them out of the blue with no hype.
2.) Have them squash a no name local indy jobber.

If those happen then I have to hear the announcers spend the next few minutes talking about how impressive this guy is while beating up someone who's also making their WWE debut (technically).

Exactly right, destroying a jobber in this day and age is pointless, at least give the guy a lower card worker to squash, but I'd say the lack of hype is the biggest killer and I'm surprised Triple H let this debut slip through without the vignette lead-in he's been bringing back.

[Hunter Rider]

Macho Man Randy Savage on Arsenio Hall 1989 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqqfilsIyG4&feature=related)

Look at that charisma! I truly think had Vince followed right through on Savage's face push instead of turning him and feeding him to Hogan, he could have been as big of a draw.

Randy Savage & Jesse Ventura Tag Team (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWVycX9wv6g&feature=related)

Little bit of a rare one here. :D

[Slushy]

Why is it that CM Punk can't end the streak but a part timer like Brock Lesnar and somebody no one wants to see end it like John Cena can't?


Because with Punk, fans in general wouldn't believe it. At least Brock is a big guy and Cena has beaten almost everybody on the roster including The Undertaker.

Although IMO Michaels getting a rematch at Wrestlemania 26 was one of the worst things to happen because he did such a good job trying to end The Streak back to back, he shot a lot of challengers credibility like original Streak victim Wade Barrett.

[Black Dynamite]

http://www.wweshop.com/item/daniel-bryan-yes-authentic-t-shirt/NewUpcoming/01-16384
http://i.imgur.com/y2rl7.jpg

:woot:
This will be the first wrestling shirt I buy.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I don't think Lesnar/Rock for the title is a good idea at all. To be honest it won't be anywhere near as good as their first match ten years ago and I feel it be impossible to live to expectations. I think Lesnar/Taker is a better way to go and since Lesnar has major wins over Taker, storyline wise it puts the streak in danger.

I'm not picking on you specifically, but I see this all the time about how a match won't be as good as, or won't live up to expectations, or what have you...

and then we get Undertaker v. Triple H @ Wrestlemania 28, which is a classic as far as I'm concerned.

I say, let WWE worry about the booking, and then let's judge the match after it happens.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

This is why I think they should bring back a third brand. Too much wasted potential.

3rd brand?

The talent is stretched too thin as it is.

[louiebling$]

Streched out? Most of the talent don't even have TV time...and when they do they are Jobbing

[AntMan]

There is already NXT, or as it should be called LOST: WWE Edition.

[Hunter Rider]

I'm not picking on you specifically, but I see this all the time about how a match won't be as good as, or won't live up to expectations, or what have you...

and then we get Undertaker v. Triple H @ Wrestlemania 28, which is a classic as far as I'm concerned.

I say, let WWE worry about the booking, and then let's judge the match after it happens.

Taker vs Triple H is two warriors bashing the crap out of each other using gimmicks as crutches to fill out the match, Terry Funk could still have a good brawl well into his 50's.

Brock vs Rock have styles built on speed and athleticism, Rock has clearly lost a step or two and Brock has had a major illness.

It's apples and oranges.

[Project862006]

Streched out? Most of the talent don't even have TV time...and when they do they are Jobbing
so true i miss the days when mid card talent actually got mic time

[MMMMM...Dounuts]

3rd brand?

The talent is stretched too thin as it is.

No, the talent is there, there just isn't enough time to showcase it.

The next big star is on the roster, but that potential is wasted by not having time for guys to move up on the roster or show what they are capable of and get support from the fans and guys backstage.

Look at guys like John Cena and CM Punk as examples of guys who were on the verge of being cut and went on to become huge stars in the business.

[The Sage]

Did anyone else wonder if Rock held back in the match? It felt pretty safe, as it was neither went too hard since Rock was leaving right after to film a movie. If this is the case, I question the quality of Rock's future matches. Not just because of ring rust, but if he's going to be his limited.

Time will tell I guess...

[Metallo]

I'm not picking on you specifically, but I see this all the time about how a match won't be as good as, or won't live up to expectations, or what have you...

and then we get Undertaker v. Triple H @ Wrestlemania 28, which is a classic as far as I'm concerned.

I say, let WWE worry about the booking, and then let's judge the match after it happens.

In terms of ring psychology Rock proved how limited a worker he is at Wrestlemania when Triple H stole the show from him. Great athlete but not some super storyteller. Brock is WORSE than Rock. As much hate as I pile on Triple h I've never denied his mind for the business. Triple H vs Undertaker III was great storytelling. Thats why it worked. Those guys put on psychology CLINIC. When was Brock EVER a GREAT worker/storyteller? He was almost always in there with someone far better than him.

Triple H and Taker have also been around more recently to hone their in ring instincts. Triple H vs Taker III also had Shawn Michaels in there. He's a better storyteller than Rock and Brock combined. They aren't going to stick someone like that in Rock vs Lesnar II. Somebody quote me so Nell can learn something :funny:

[The Sage]

In terms of ring psychology Rock proved how limited a worker he is at Wrestlemania when Triple H stole the show from him. Great athlete but not some super storyteller. Brock is WORSE than Rock. As much hate as I pile on Triple h I've never denied his mind for the business. Triple H vs Undertaker III was great storytelling. Thats why it worked. Those guys put on psychology CLINIC. When was Brock EVER a GREAT worker/storyteller? He was almost always in there with someone far better than him.

Triple H and Taker have also been around more recently to hone their in ring instincts. Triple H vs Taker III also had Shawn Michaels in there. He's a better storyteller than Rock and Brock combined. They aren't going to stick someone like that in Rock vs Lesnar II. Somebody quote me so Nell can learn something :funny:

The Rock was a solid storyteller in his prime. Rock/Brock's first match was good and told the story of the veteran being outdone by the new up and comer.

But that was nearly ten years ago when Rock was in his prime and Brock was a young but learning student of the game. Now they're both rusty, Rock might be playing it safe thanks to Hollywood commitments, and who knows what Brock's mindset is wrestling wise along with his questionable health?

[Metallo]

The Rock was a solid storyteller in his prime. Rock/Brock's first match was good and told the story of the veteran being outdone by the new up and comer.

But that was nearly ten years ago when Rock was in his prime and Brock was a young but learning student of the game. Now they're both rusty, Rock might be playing it safe thanks to Hollywood commitments, and who knows what Brock's mindset is wrestling wise along with his questionable health?

I don't think that was nearly as apparent as it should have been in the actual match. The biggest appeal was that Rock was the best of his time and the last thing in Brocks way to gaining the ultimate prize. It was about two superb athletes going full steam ahead against each other.

But that match never had the brilliant ring psychology of Hart vs Austin at WM13 or Taker vs HBK at WM25 or even Hogan vs Warrior at WM 6 which was a better example of what you're talking about, Sage.

Even before Triple H vs Taker III people here discussed the possibilities like a potential encounter inside the Cell or HBK or Foley as ref. Rock vs Brock doesn't have anything like that that could be tossed in as a hook. The match could be good but I'm not expecting to be blown away.

[spidey-dude]

Did anyone else wonder if Rock held back in the match? It felt pretty safe, as it was neither went too hard since Rock was leaving right after to film a movie. If this is the case, I question the quality of Rock's future matches. Not just because of ring rust, but if he's going to be his limited.

Time will tell I guess...

am I the only one that thought Rock Cena was really good????


for taker H they relied so much of props - and I thought Shawn was OTT tbh in how he reacted to everything, seeing him shaking in the corner was just ridiculous

[Metallo]

Did anyone else wonder if Rock held back in the match? It felt pretty safe, as it was neither went too hard since Rock was leaving right after to film a movie. If this is the case, I question the quality of Rock's future matches. Not just because of ring rust, but if he's going to be his limited.

Time will tell I guess...

Between some rust and filming Pain and Gain 2 days later it was obvious he was trying to ride a line between giving a great physical performance and leaving it all out there. I've seen Cena in MUCH better matches to be honest. I don't think age has slowed the Rock down much but his instincts in the ring aren't as sharp.

You make a good point though. The studios insurance companies aren't going to want him doing anything too risky. Not that his style was every that high risk anyway but he's still a big physical guy and in this business there's always a high degree of risk.

Thats not even getting into what Brock can and can't do anymore. Lesnar got better in his 2 years but he was around for such a short amount of time he didn't get a chance to learn a lot anyway.

[The Sage]

Rock/Cena fell below my expectations. I've seen the best of both men in other matches, and their encounter felt average in-ring wise, even though the hot crowd made it feel good.

I don't think that was nearly as apparent as it should have been in the actual match. The biggest appeal was that Rock was the best of his time and the last thing in Brocks way to gaining the ultimate prize. It was about two superb athletes going full steam ahead against each other.

But that match never had the brilliant ring psychology of Hart vs Austin at WM13 or Taker vs HBK at WM25 or even Hogan vs Warrior at WM 6 which was a better example of what you're talking about, Sage.

Even before Triple H vs Taker III people here discussed the possibilities like a potential encounter inside the Cell or HBK or Foley as ref. Rock vs Brock doesn't have anything like that that could be tossed in as a hook. The match could be good but I'm not expecting to be blown away.

Those are definitely better examples, but I thought what they did then was good and it helped get Brock the level they wanted.

Rock/Brock II would be different in a way since now Rock is the same size as Brock as opposed the last time. In fact, Rock might actually be bigger now.

[The Sage]

Between some rust and filming Pain and Gain 2 days later it was obvious he was trying to ride a line between giving a great physical performance and leaving it all out there. I've seen Cena in MUCH better matches to be honest. I don't think age has slowed the Rock down much but his instincts in the ring aren't as sharp.

You make a good point though. The studios insurance companies aren't going to want him doing anything too risky. Not that his style was every that high risk anyway but he's still a big physical guy and in this business there's always a high degree of risk.

Thats not even getting into what Brock can and can't do anymore. Lesnar got better in his 2 years but he was around for such a short amount of time he didn't get a chance to learn a lot anyway.

And just how much time will Brock dedicate to training with his limited schedule? Will he go down to FCW? Will WWE send guys to help him and how receptive will he be to them? So many questions with that.

[Metallo]

Rock/Cena fell below my expectations. I've seen the best of both men in other matches, and their encounter felt average in-ring wise, even though the hot crowd made it feel good.

Ditto. I've seen WAAAAAY better Wrestlemania main events. As the veteran Rock could have done a better job leading the way. It makes me appreciate what Hogan did at Wrestlemania 6 far more. And he did it again at WM18. But I've seen better from both Rock and Cena. Considering how they built this up it didn't live up to the hype.

Those are definitely better examples, but I thought what they did then was good and it helped get Brock the level they wanted.

It accomplished what it needed to do but I think Brock had better matches later. I think the HIAC with The Undertaker was an even more epic encounter. Far better storytelling and I think in some ways in put Brock over stronger since he beat Taker in his own signature match. Brock climbing the cage like a conquering monster was awesome.

Rock/Brock II would be different in a way since now Rock is the same size as Brock as opposed the last time. In fact, Rock might actually be bigger now.

Rock looks a lot bigger and harder looking. Brocks dropped a lot of weigh and looks less chiseled but its hard to tell since he was wearing cloths. I wonder if he'll put on any size? Brocks also no longer the new kid on the block. he's built up more of a rep as a legitimate badass (compared to pro wrestling or movies anyway).

[SpideyFan866]

I think Rock's performance at Mania was a combination of holding back and plain good 'ole selling.

[Dr. Evil]

The Rock was holding back because he has a movie to shoot.

[brainchild81]

Taker vs Triple H is two warriors bashing the crap out of each other using gimmicks as crutches to fill out the match, Terry Funk could still have a good brawl well into his 50's.I guess I'm one of the few who wasn't impressed at ALL by that match. I agree about the crutches 100% & I include HBK as one of said crutches. They really didn't do much beside chair shots to the back and finishers. Hell, UT didn't even do the ''Matt Hardy spot” w/the chair in the throat. I enjoyed Rock/Cena more & enjoyed Punk/Y2J waaaay more. Because with Punk, fans in general wouldn't believe it. At least Brock is a big guy and Cena has beaten almost everybody on the roster including The Undertaker..Now would you say the same if HBK had ended it?

[DBryan]

Wow. If someone can't enjoy Undertake vs HHH Hell in a Cell, I dunno what to say.

I found it mesmorizing and completely engrossing and who cares if it was mostly chair shots. That's basically Mick Foley's entire career. It was the way they sold the story, the character relationships, and everything being put on the line by these legends.

[Hunter Rider]

Did anyone else wonder if Rock held back in the match? It felt pretty safe, as it was neither went too hard since Rock was leaving right after to film a movie. If this is the case, I question the quality of Rock's future matches. Not just because of ring rust, but if he's going to be his limited.

Time will tell I guess...

Rust and going easy were part of it, I'd also factor in that Rock is a big man and while he was the most fluid mover I've seen at that size, he's 40 now and it showed.

Another issue is that Cena is a guy that rises to the occasion when his opponent is great, HBK, Edge, Punk and even Ziggler all had great matches with Cena; He can also fit in well with a monster wrestler as he bumps well and taking hits is his strongest asset...the problem is that it's The Rock's strongest asset as well but neither guy functions that well as the match leader and pace setter.

In truth at first I thought Rock was sandbagging Cena on the first couple of lifts outside the ring on the barricade drops, but it was either being uber safe of a case of his timing being off.

Actually I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the match is almost beat for beat a copy of Hogan vs Warrior from WM6.

[SpideyFan866]

I really hope they reconsider next year's Mania's card.

I mean, the rumored main events are phenomonal from a fan standpoint but from a business standpoint, its bad.

It will be great for the WWE for now but its not good for the longterm.

[brainchild81]

Wow. If someone can't enjoy Undertake vs HHH Hell in a Cell, I dunno what to say.

I found it mesmorizing and completely engrossing and who cares if it was mostly chair shots. That's basically Mick Foley's entire career. It was the way they sold the story, the character relationships, and everything being put on the line by these legends.You either haven't seen Foley's entire career or have a very low opinion of it. Foley had more to offer and also dealt with a LOT more than chair shots.....to the back. Perhaps it takes an emotional investment to fully enjoy this match and I had absolutely none. When taken as just two guys having a match it falls faaaaaar short of a classic IMO

[TripleR]

So I've finally got a chance to get on here after the hectic weekend of my trip followed by midterms, but I was in Miami for Mania last weekend and it was AWESOME. I'm from NY and drove down there with 2 buddies, so about a combined 42 hours in the car from when we left Friday afternoon to when we got back home Tuesday morning at 3am, and it was totally worth it.

I'm uploading some pictures soon, got some great shots so if anyone's interested I can put them up here a little later on.

[Superark]

Rust and going easy were part of it, I'd also factor in that Rock is a big man and while he was the most fluid mover I've seen at that size, he's 40 now and it showed.

Another issue is that Cena is a guy that rises to the occasion when his opponent is great, HBK, Edge, Punk and even Ziggler all had great matches with Cena; He can also fit in well with a monster wrestler as he bumps well and taking hits is his strongest asset...the problem is that it's The Rock's strongest asset as well but neither guy functions that well as the match leader and pace setter.

In truth at first I thought Rock was sandbagging Cena on the first couple of lifts outside the ring on the barricade drops, but it was either being uber safe of a case of his timing being off.

Actually I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the match is almost beat for beat a copy of Hogan vs Warrior from WM6.

Rock certainly looked gassed. It's hard to come back after that many years and put on a barnburner. I personally did not care for the match. Rock is only as good as his opponents and the same can be said for Cena. That's the perfect recipe for mediocrity.

[Superark]

Wow. If someone can't enjoy Undertake vs HHH Hell in a Cell, I dunno what to say.

I found it mesmorizing and completely engrossing and who cares if it was mostly chair shots. That's basically Mick Foley's entire career. It was the way they sold the story, the character relationships, and everything being put on the line by these legends.


I don't think there is anything wrong if you did not enjoy it. The crutch of that match was being emotionally invested in the characters versus the actual workrate. If you do not care about HHH, or Taker, then it's going to be hard to appreciate that match. That match was full of the bag of tricks to cover-up the fact neither guy can go in the ring like they use to.

HBK, JR, and the crowd made that match to me. I would not put that match in my top 10 mania classics by any means. It was full of tricks and felt very redundant from the past 3 previous Taker Mania matches. I credit all the men for selling the emotion well though

[AntMan]

Wow. If someone can't enjoy Undertake vs HHH Hell in a Cell, I dunno what to say.

I found it mesmorizing and completely engrossing and who cares if it was mostly chair shots. That's basically Mick Foley's entire career. It was the way they sold the story, the character relationships, and everything being put on the line by these legends.

I agree with you on the HIAC match, but Foley deserves more than boiling his career down to a bunch of chair shots. He was good on the mic and has cut some brilliant promos. He also could sell a match/angle really well.

[Metallo]

Another issue is that Cena is a guy that rises to the occasion when his opponent is great, HBK, Edge, Punk and even Ziggler all had great matches with Cena; He can also fit in well with a monster wrestler as he bumps well and taking hits is his strongest asset...the problem is that it's The Rock's strongest asset as well but neither guy functions that well as the match leader and pace setter.

Considering Cena is the Hogan of his day in some ways its not entirely surprising. Hogan had some of the same strengths and weaknesses. He worked great with smaller more mat based wrestlers than himself (Savage, Flair, Orndoff, HBK) and big monsters (Earthquake, Bossman, Andre, sometimes Vader) but you get him in there with a guy too similar to him and it doesn't always work. He and Warrior had a great story to work with at WM6 and Rock was young and agile enough to give the match more movement.

Actually I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the match is almost beat for beat a copy of Hogan vs Warrior from WM6.Except for Hogan vs Warrior being...better. :funny: Thats what great storytelling gets you.



I don't think there is anything wrong if you did not enjoy it. The crutch of that match was being emotionally invested in the characters versus the actual workrate. If you do not care about HHH, or Taker, then it's going to be hard to appreciate that match. That match was full of the bag of tricks to cover-up the fact neither guy can go in the ring like they use to.

HBK, JR, and the crowd made that match to me. I would not put that match in my top 10 mania classics by any means. It was full of tricks and felt very redundant from the past 3 previous Taker Mania matches. I credit all the men for selling the emotion well though

I think Triple H simply knew he wasn't going to put on move/mat based classics the way HBK did and combined with the fact that Taker and HHH are both beat up and past their physical prime its not surprising it went the way it did. Since becoming "The Game" Triple H MO has always been about brutality in some way so it wasn't that far outside the realm of his usual style.

The interesting thing is while the Cell itself was a great hook (one they knew they needed) it wasn't really used all that much. It was the little things in the match that put it over: The fact that the cell came down AFTER they entered the ring and both men looked up at it. Triple H reaching for a sledge while Taker reached for a chair as they were both hurting on the mat. Undertaker stepping on the sledge hammer and shaking his head. It culminated with The Undertaker giving a look that basically said he would not be denied and that he refused to lose...like fate saying the outcome was inevitable. It all had a kind of mythic feel. Like we were watching something greater than the sum of its parts. All the truly iconic matches in wrestling have that. Didn't quite get that same feeling with Rock vs Cena.

For all the buildup to Rock vs Cena and what it was about that same storyline we saw there wasn't really played out clearly enough in the actual match. When it was over I didn't feel fufilled. It was almost a kind of anti climax. The post match and the follow up on Raw the next night didn't help. Ever since I've just been like "thats it?"

[Van Petrol]

Don't know if anyone else noticed this, but the part where Rock jumped off the top turnbuckle for a cross body on Cena, only for him to roll over and reverse it into the AA, was similar to what happened in a match between Orton and Lesnar back in 2002. Randy went for the cross body off the top rope, only for Lesnar to roll over and reverse it into the F5.

Funnily enough, I rewatched the Orton-Lesnar match the a few hours before WM. :D

[Hunter Rider]

So I've finally got a chance to get on here after the hectic weekend of my trip followed by midterms, but I was in Miami for Mania last weekend and it was AWESOME. I'm from NY and drove down there with 2 buddies, so about a combined 42 hours in the car from when we left Friday afternoon to when we got back home Tuesday morning at 3am, and it was totally worth it.

I'm uploading some pictures soon, got some great shots so if anyone's interested I can put them up here a little later on.

Glad you had a great time man. :up:

Rock certainly looked gassed. It's hard to come back after that many years and put on a barnburner. I personally did not care for the match. Rock is only as good as his opponents and the same can be said for Cena. That's the perfect recipe for mediocrity.

That's a great summation of it, two guys who are only as good as their opponent, not guys like HBK, Flair, Savage and Rude who carried stiffs to great matches.

I don't think there is anything wrong if you did not enjoy it. The crutch of that match was being emotionally invested in the characters versus the actual workrate. If you do not care about HHH, or Taker, then it's going to be hard to appreciate that match. That match was full of the bag of tricks to cover-up the fact neither guy can go in the ring like they use to.

HBK, JR, and the crowd made that match to me. I would not put that match in my top 10 mania classics by any means. It was full of tricks and felt very redundant from the past 3 previous Taker Mania matches. I credit all the men for selling the emotion well though

I think JR was a fantastic part of the match, having him back calling it was a huge bonus for the story as it was noticeable how the other two main events lacked that passionate storytelling style JR brings to commentary that adds to a match.

Personally I'm not a fan of Triple H these days and I've never been a Taker fan, plus I hate the streak, but as a wrestling fan of 25 years I was utterly glued to the that match.

I agree with you on the HIAC match, but Foley deserves more than boiling his career down to a bunch of chair shots. He was good on the mic and has cut some brilliant promos. He also could sell a match/angle really well.

Foley is a great in ring psychologist, he takes crazy bumps at the right times which is something garbage wrestlers who are covered in scars by the time they are 25 don't understand.

[The Sage]

Don't know if anyone else noticed this, but the part where Rock jumped off the top turnbuckle for a cross body on Cena, only for him to roll over and reverse it into the AA, was similar to what happened in a match between Orton and Lesnar back in 2002. Randy went for the cross body off the top rope, only for Lesnar to roll over and reverse it into the F5.

Funnily enough, I rewatched the Orton-Lesnar match the a few hours before WM. :D

That spot was also from HBK/Cena in Wrestlemania 23 I think, as well as Punk/Cena in their Money In The Bank Encounter. It's a common Cena spot in big matches.

[LuisTX85]

I really hope they reconsider next year's Mania's card.

I mean, the rumored main events are phenomonal from a fan standpoint but from a business standpoint, its bad.

It will be great for the WWE for now but its not good for the longterm.

Why care about long-term business anyway?are you a stock holder or something??You and everyone else here are"fans"and so there's just no need to care about business so much that it'll ruin it for you!

Business wise they are still doing good and are still very popular with many of the casuals&plenty of hardcores are around,People b**ching about Cena a hard worker getting screwed by part-timers should realize he's still likely going to remain the top guy and you know there's a good chance he can still go over at least Brock!!

[LuisTX85]

I agree with you on the HIAC match, but Foley deserves more than boiling his career down to a bunch of chair shots. He was good on the mic and has cut some brilliant promos. He also could sell a match/angle really well.

Very true!

[Van Petrol]

That spot was also from HBK/Cena in Wrestlemania 23 I think, as well as Punk/Cena in their Money In The Bank Encounter. It's a common Cena spot in big matches.

Yeah. I just found it amusing seeing as I'd watched a match just before The Rock-Cena match, with two other guys pulling off a similar spot. :D

[AntMan]

I don't know about you, but I actually want WWE to be around in 20 years.

[Metallo]

Why care about long-term business anyway?are you a stock holder or something??You and everyone else here are"fans"and so there's just no need to care about business so much that it'll ruin it for you!

Business wise they are still doing good and are still very popular with many of the casuals&plenty of hardcores are around,People b**ching about Cena a hard worker getting screwed by part-timers should realize he's still likely going to remain the top guy and you know there's a good chance he can still go over at least Brock!!

Maybe because he SURE would like to be watching AWA wrestling right now. Or WCW. Thats not just a comment on business but the quality of the stories they told. Greater stories could have had the side affect of stronger business and thus a longer lives for those companies.

Maybe that Invasion could have turned out better with some better long term thinking. Who knows how big a deal it could have been after. Maybe Bockwinkle going over Hogan wasn't such a smart move. :hehe:

Wrestling's always had a kind of serialized nature to it. One thing bleeds into the other. Its kind of hard to segregate one thing without considering the possibility of how it affects the long term quality of that serial storytelling. Something can be good...but it can also go from good to great if handled right. Some people might want great entertainment now AND tomorrow. It is possible to do both.

[Superark]

I think Triple H simply knew he wasn't going to put on move/mat based classics the way HBK did and combined with the fact that Taker and HHH are both beat up and past their physical prime its not surprising it went the way it did. Since becoming "The Game" Triple H MO has always been about brutality in some way so it wasn't that far outside the realm of his usual style.

The interesting thing is while the Cell itself was a great hook (one they knew they needed) it wasn't really used all that much. It was the little things in the match that put it over: The fact that the cell came down AFTER they entered the ring and both men looked up at it. Triple H reaching for a sledge while Taker reached for a chair as they were both hurting on the mat. Undertaker stepping on the sledge hammer and shaking his head. It culminated with The Undertaker giving a look that basically said he would not be denied and that he refused to lose...like fate saying the outcome was inevitable. It all had a kind of mythic feel. Like we were watching something greater than the sum of its parts. All the truly iconic matches in wrestling have that. Didn't quite get that same feeling with Rock vs Cena.

For all the buildup to Rock vs Cena and what it was about that same storyline we saw there wasn't really played out clearly enough in the actual match.

I think you make a great point about HHH realizing he was never going to put on a pure wrestling match to the standard of HBK. I absolutely believe that's one of the major reasons the last two matches with Taker have been gimmicked.

There were some great touches in that match, but my biggest problem is that I felt like in a lot of ways the men rehashing the same stuff since WM 25 with all the numerous finshers and kickouts. I've seen it so many times at this point that it feels old. I also believe the men do themselves a disservice when they kickout of that many finishers and kicking out of sledgehammer shots to the face. I get the idea of "digging down deep" but I think at times it was a little too much. It hurts the credibilty of those moves and shots and I think it actually makes others look weak.





I think JR was a fantastic part of the match, having him back calling it was a huge bonus for the story as it was noticeable how the other two main events lacked that passionate storytelling style JR brings to commentary that adds to a match.

Personally I'm not a fan of Triple H these days and I've never been a Taker fan, plus I hate the streak, but as a wrestling fan of 25 years I was utterly glued to the that match.

JR is hands down the best commentator in wrestling history. He can make any match, no matter how insignificant it may be, seem worth watching. It's a shame Vince does not see the value in having him around on a regular basis. It's too bad TNA never gave JR that management role he wanted, otherwise we'd be getting great commentary on a weekly basis. PWInsider.com reported that HHH, Taker, and HBK went to Vince and said JR had to be the one who called their match. Kudos to those 3 for going to bat for him!


I've never been a huge HHH fan, but I thought his 99-2000 heel run was great! However, once he returned in 2002 I think we saw the limitations of HHH as both a character and wrestler. His politics were in full swing and he buried a lot of guys, and he had very FEW great matches that did not involve HBK. That's when I soured on HHH. I've always liked Taker, but I did care too much for his American Badass gimmick.

The reasons I mentioned above to Metallo are why I did not get tooinvested into the match. I enjoyed it, but not that much. If it wasn't for JR and HBK, I might not have liked the match at all.

[Saint]

HHH/Taker was incredibly solid from a story-telling point of view, but fairly weak as a wrestling match. It's absolutely true that they did little else besides chairs shots and finishers. Their age and the PG standard prevented them from taking true advantage of the Hell in a Cell match. In fact, the match would have been no different had the Cell not been there.

That said, the great storytelling (and the fact that, for most of the match, I truly didn't know how it was going to end) made it solid.

Although Jericho/Punk was, without a doubt, the best match of the night, I think that Rock/Cena was the most fun match of the night. It wasn't either man's best match, but I think it hit all the spots it needed to hit.

[Dr. Evil]

I could easily understand why the Rock was passive at WM 28 in regards to his in ring skill. Age (he's 40) does play a role, no doubt about that, but so does the Hollywood movie studios. They don't want any serious injury to happen to the Rock. Imagine if they went all out and the Rock got seriously injured as a result of the WWE? The WWE would be blamed 100% and then all of a sudden his people will tell him to never associate with the WWE ever again. Hollywood has already looked at the WWE with much disdain and animosity, the WWE would gain more of that if the Rock got injured.

[Van Petrol]

A HiaC match almost seems redundant unless Mick Foley's involved. When you couple that with the PG restriction, goodness knows why they decided to deicate and entire PPV to the concept.

[LuisTX85]

I don't know about you, but I actually want WWE to be around in 20 years.

So do I,I agree Rock vs Brock for the WWE title at WM29 would be a business mistake in some ways But I just doubt it'll affect it in anyway long-term in terms of the company being around 20 years from now!!

[Van Petrol]

I don't know about you, but I actually want WWE to be around in 20 years.
What makes you think it won't be?

[Metallo]

I agree with you on the HIAC match, but Foley deserves more than boiling his career down to a bunch of chair shots. He was good on the mic and has cut some brilliant promos. He also could sell a match/angle really well.

I get this sense that WWE hasn't appreciated Foleys talents like they should lately. If Foley does something with Ambrose I hope its built up to something and not just some too early throw away thing to try to get him over ASAP.

Hunters right. Foley did stunts but he knew how and when to them in the story. He also new how to display emotion. It wasn't just stunts for the sake of stunts. The garbage wrestlers who do it now have no clue how to manipulate peoples emotions with that style and they do it so often that people are desensitized to what they are seeing.

Its one reason I think it was smart to ban chairshots to the head (besides legitimate health risks). In the attitude era we saw them so often that they became old hat. When HHH bashed Takers head in last year at WM27 I think a lot of people gasped. It was so rare to see it that it mattered more.

[Daniel Thompson]

I don't know about you, but I actually want WWE to be around in 20 years.

They will be unless some really big happens.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Wow. If someone can't enjoy Undertake vs HHH Hell in a Cell, I dunno what to say.

I found it mesmorizing and completely engrossing and who cares if it was mostly chair shots. That's basically Mick Foley's entire career. It was the way they sold the story, the character relationships, and everything being put on the line by these legends.

Probably because it wasn't some "technical masterpiece"

I agree, it was a great match, and a match that perfectly represents why I watch wrestling.

[AntMan]

What makes you think it won't be?

It won't be if Vince continues to be short sighted and relies too much on the past.

[Superark]

It won't be if Vince continues to short sighted and relies too much on the past.


The business will always be around to some degree, but I think it will continue to slide downwards as long as Vince continues his way of booking and thinking. Vince will continue to run that company on a daily basis until his physical health allows him to do so.

[SpideyFan866]

They will be unless some really big happens.

WWE Network.


That's there biggest venture and if it fails, and it looks like might, WWE will take a huge blow.

[Metallo]

A HiaC match almost seems redundant unless Mick Foley's involved. When you couple that with the PG restriction, goodness knows why they decided to deicate and entire PPV to the concept.

I think annual ppv's dedicated to HIAC hurts the potency and the mystique around the entire concept. I think that ppv is something they should do away with. The Cell should only be used when needed. That also givess it a surprise factor.



I think you make a great point about HHH realizing he was never going to put on a pure wrestling match to the standard of HBK. I absolutely believe that's one of the major reasons the last two matches with Taker have been gimmicked.

There were some great touches in that match, but my biggest problem is that I felt like in a lot of ways the men rehashing the same stuff since WM 25 with all the numerous finshers and kickouts. I've seen it so many times at this point that it feels old. I also believe the men do themselves a disservice when they kickout of that many finishers and kicking out of sledgehammer shots to the face. I get the idea of "digging down deep" but I think at times it was a little too much. It hurts the credibilty of those moves and shots and I think it actually makes others look weak.


JR is hands down the best commentator in wrestling history. He can make any match, no matter how insignificant it may be, seem worth watching. It's a shame Vince does not see the value in having him around on a regular basis. It's too bad TNA never gave JR that management role he wanted, becuase otherwise we'd be getting great commentary on a weekly basis. PWInsider.com reported that HHH, Taker, and HBK went to Vince and said JR had to be the one who called their match. Kudos to those 3 for going to bat for him!


I've never been a huge HHH fan, but I thought his 99-2000 heel run was great! However, once he returned in 2002 I think we saw the limitations of HHH as both a character and wrestler. His politics were in full swing and he buried a lot of guys, and he had very FEW great matches that did not involve HBK. That's when I soured on HHH. I've always liked Taker, but I did care too much for his American Badass gimmick.

The reasons I mentioned above to Metallo are why I did get too into the match. I enjoyed it, but not that much. If it wasn't for JR and HBK, I might not have liked the match at all.

Jim Ross was a big reason why HHH vs Taker III was as good as it was.

I think HHH HBK and Taker were definitely playing off the last three years of moments in their matches. In some ways thats brilliant but in others it was a little lazy.

I'm not a fan of multiple finishers/kickouts of pins either. It works SOMETIMES but it has to be done just right. WWE has relied on it far too much. Thanks again, Attitude Era. Thats the first time we saw that sh** regularly.

Is it sad/crazy to anyone else but me that the best protected finisher is Taras in TNA? I've never seen ANYONE kick out of it. Not that people shouldn't kick out sometimes but when its done too much its overkill.

Something like the Tombstone should be pretty well protected and only used when absolutely needed. The thing looks absolutely brutal. Nobody should be kicking out of 5 of them in a row. When finishers aren't protected they can become transitional moves like the DDT and thats just raising the bar to dangerous levels.

[Metallo]

The business will always be around to some degree, but I think it will continue to slide downwards as long as Vince continues his way of booking and thinking. Vince will continue to run that company on a daily basis until his physical health allows him to do so.

Whether Vince admits it or not various forms of entertainment are competing for peoples dollar and thats only going to get worse. His solutions are asinine. I get WHY he's pushing twitter but until that translates to actual viewership or actual money its just pie in the sky. WWE already has the brand awareness. People just don't care enough to watch.

They need something that gets people to watch every week/month and not just one time a year. People know there's only one PPV WWE really gives enough of a crap about to put some real effort into it.


WWE Network.


That's there biggest venture and if it fails, and it looks like might, WWE will take a huge blow.

Quite frankly Vince has had a detachment from reality on this one. Its a HUGE risk. The network failing won't put them under but it would indeed be a big blow to their public image and the way they are perceived. It would still be one hell of a money loss too.

The general public just isn't hot enough in demanding wrestling that this network has a lot going it its favor.

They better learn ASAP from The Oprah network.

[Dr. Evil]

WWE Network.


That's there biggest venture and if it fails, and it looks like might, WWE will take a huge blow.

I would think that the best that the WWE can hope for their network is the NFL Network. However, the WWE isn't in demand like the NFL is. The NFL is the #1 sport in the land. More details in a future post.

I think that the one thing that will bring the WWE down is another repeat of "The Summer of Hell 2007."

[Lunar_Wolf]

It won't be if Vince continues to be short sighted and relies too much on the past.

Nah, that's more of TNA's gig. Push the old guys and leave the youth buried.

[Dr. Evil]

I would think that the best that the WWE can hope for their network is the NFL Network. However, the WWE isn't in demand like the NFL is. The NFL is the #1 sport in the land.

I think that the one thing that will bring the WWE down is another repeat of "The Summer of Hell 2007."

I will have more on this later.

[AntMan]

I get this sense that WWE hasn't appreciated Foleys talents like they should lately. If Foley does something with Ambrose I hope its built up to something and not just some too early throw away thing to try to get him over ASAP.

I think Ambrose and Foley might have a match at Extreme Rules if he debuts on Tuesday. I would like to see more than a one off, but WWE might have other plans and Foley might be busy with his standup gigs.

[Daniel Thompson]

It will have to take much to put WWE out of buisness. They got alot of money.

[vantheman77]

It's going to take a lot to beat WWE. They're here to stay for the long run.

[Metallo]

Nah, that's more of TNA's gig. Push the old guys and leave the youth buried.

Except most of the old guys are gone from TNA. Oddly enough ONE of em went back to WWE to leech off Punk. TNA just let Steiner go. The only old guys left there that regularly wrestle are Angle and Sting. Hogans the only old guy there that hogs airtime. Sad but true.

Roode vs Storm in the main event at the next TNA ppv... How are the young guys not getting pushed?

Who was it that put a 40 year old not even part timer over their top guy at Mania?

[Dr. Evil]

If TNA can get rid of Hogan, then maybe there will be hope for the young guys in TNA.

[Superark]

WWE Network.


That's there biggest venture and if it fails, and it looks like might, WWE will take a huge blow.

I think the WWE Network is nothing more than a pipe dream. They've already pushed it back a year and I think Vince and co. are realizing the kind of difficulties they are going to have getting it running. There was a great article about Oprah's tv network and the failure of that. She gave some insightful info that should give you an idea, or should I say should give Vince an idea, of the uphill battle you face creating your own network.

If Vince is truly that stubborn and his ego gets the better of him and they go through with the network, WWE is going to lose a TON of money. Hell they are already going to be spending a lot of money of Linda political campaign AGAIN! :doh:

I think annual ppv's dedicated to HIAC hurts the potency and the mystique around the entire concept. I think that ppv is something they should do away with. The Cell should only be used when needed. That also givess it a surprise factor.





Jim Ross was a big reason why HHH vs Taker III was as good as it was.

I think HHH HBK and Taker were definitely playing off the last three years of moments in their matches. In some ways thats brilliant but in others it was a little lazy.

I'm not a fan of multiple finishers/kickouts of pins either. It works SOMETIMES but it has to be done just right. WWE has relied on it far too much. Thanks again, Attitude Era. Thats the first time we saw that sh** regularly.

Is it sad/crazy to anyone else but me that the best protected finisher is Taras in TNA? I've never seen ANYONE kick out of it. Not that people shouldn't kick out sometimes but when its done too much its overkill.

Something like the Tombstone should be pretty well protected and only used when absolutely needed. The thing looks absolutely brutal. Nobody should be kicking out of 5 of them in a row. When finishers aren't protected they can become transitional moves like the DDT and thats just raising the bar to dangerous levels.

The superkick/pedigree combo was the nail in the coffin for me. The sledgehammer shot to face earlier was bad enough, but that was too much. The Attitude era (which I think largely falls on Heyman and the ridiculousness of the ECW style he brought to the business) did take away from the believability of wrestling matches.

I miss the days where the matches were a little bit simplier and smaller moves meant more. There is a reason why Hogan slamming Andre was such a classic moment in wrestling history. Hell I still remember the reaction Sting would get for bodyslamming The Giant. Wrestling has a lost much of its art and moved too fast. It's like you mentioned with the chairshot to the head with Taker/HHH last year. It was more effective becaise you do not see it anymore. Of course the only problem was normally that would be the ending to the match. Wrestling matches themselves need to slow down so the big moves mean more.

It's funny you mention Tara's finisher because I was watching TNA the other night and thought to myself that it is the most devasting looking finisher in wrestling. You're right, I've never seen anyone kickout of it. That's how it should be, very few times.

[Daniel Thompson]

It's going to take a lot to beat WWE. They're here to stay for the long run.

Yeah WWE has no competition so they are fine aslong as they do not start losing chunks of money and I do not see that happening anytime soon. They would have to be wCw circa 1999-2001 to go out of buisness.

[Superark]

Except most of the old guys are gone from TNA. Oddly enough ONE of em went back to WWE to leech off Punk. TNA just let Steiner go. The only old guys left there that regularly wrestle are Angle and Sting. Hogans the only old guy there that hogs airtime. Sad but true.

Roode vs Storm in the main event at the next TNA ppv... How are the young guys not getting pushed?

Who was it that put a 40 year old not even part timer over their top guy at Mania?

It's funny how TNA gets blamed for the very same thing WWE does, yet WWE is worse about pushing young new talent than TNA does these days.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Why care about long-term business anyway?are you a stock holder or something??You and everyone else here are"fans"and so there's just no need to care about business so much that it'll ruin it for you!

Business wise they are still doing good and are still very popular with many of the casuals&plenty of hardcores are around,People b**ching about Cena a hard worker getting screwed by part-timers should realize he's still likely going to remain the top guy and you know there's a good chance he can still go over at least Brock!!

:up: x1000

I'll take the "fan" card over the "business" card any day. For my $60, I want entertaining characters and stories, not "going over", "torch passing", "rubs", and "good for business"

[Daniel Thompson]

:up: x1000

I'll take the "fan" card over the "business" card any day. For my $60, I want entertaining characters and stories, not "going over", "torch passing", "rubs", and "good for business"

Well fans can also care about the buisness side so the buisness can stay around for a long time for them to be entertained.

[AntMan]

Yeah TNA gets too much flack.

[Team Andino]

Why care about long-term business anyway?are you a stock holder or something??You and everyone else here are"fans"and so there's just no need to care about business so much that it'll ruin it for you!

Business wise they are still doing good and are still very popular with many of the casuals&plenty of hardcores are around,People b**ching about Cena a hard worker getting screwed by part-timers should realize he's still likely going to remain the top guy and you know there's a good chance he can still go over at least Brock!!
That's the issue I have with one of my best friends who I talk wrestling with. He never tells me his opinion as he's always talking about what's good for WWE as if he were apart of the company. I'll rarely get his real input unless I demand him to stop thinking like a company guy and talk to me like a wrestling fan.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Well fans can also care about the buisness side so the buisness can stay around for a long time for them to be entertained.

And when the WWE gives characters and stories that people want to see, and give us The Rock, and bringing back Brock, the fans will tune in to watch what they want to see, thus bringing money to WWE to continue the business.

[NDX]

I think the WWE Network is nothing more than a pipe dream. They've already pushed it back a year and I think Vince and co. are realizing the kind of difficulties they are going to have getting it running. There was a great article about Oprah's tv network and the failure of that. She gave some insightful info that should give you an idea, or should I say should give Vince an idea, of the uphill battle you face creating your own network.

If Vince is truly that stubborn and his ego gets the better of him and they go through with the network, WWE is going to lose a TON of money. Hell they are already going to be spending a lot of money of Linda political campaign AGAIN! :doh:
I would expect it to be an even more uphill battle for Vince to make the channel successful. OWN is an essentially free network on the upper channels (here, it's in the early 100s, which you need to get an expanded cable package to get). Vince it prepping for a channel that will have a paid subscription. In today's economy and the way new channels fall under the radar no matter who's backing them, Vince it going to be shoveling money in the WWENetwork furnace for years before he sees a return, if any. Does he have the patience to see that venture through, or will he fold after a year and call it a loss, claiming no one cares about wrestling and increase the drama on the shows and take the sports out of Sports Entertainment.

[Lunar_Wolf]

Except most of the old guys are gone from TNA. Oddly enough ONE of em went back to WWE to leech off Punk. TNA just let Steiner go. The only old guys left there that regularly wrestle are Angle and Sting. Hogans the only old guy there that hogs airtime. Sad but true.

Roode vs Storm in the main event at the next TNA ppv... How are the young guys not getting pushed?

Who was it that put a 40 year old not even part timer over their top guy at Mania?

And thats the problem, Hogan hogs airtime, Eric is pushing his lame son and Dixie being on air is a waste of time and it's cringeworthy. It's a trio of poison.

TNA let so much young guys go, it's bizarre.

Rock beating Cena a bad move? You're damn right it was. Was I happy about? You're damn right I was. But WWE are big enough to make mistakes like this, because they tend to bounce back quite fast. Hell, Brock coming back makes me forget Rock was even around.

[Metallo]

:up: x1000

I'll take the "fan" card over the "business" card any day. For my $60, I want entertaining characters and stories, not "going over", "torch passing", "rubs", and "good for business"

If Nell had his way WWE would be as dead as WCW for a lot of the same reasons. Some people want good entertainment now and one year from now. Not ONLY now.

Nell can't grasp the concept that you can have great stories AND do whats right to keep it all going.

[AntMan]

:up: x1000

I'll take the "fan" card over the "business" card any day. For my $60, I want entertaining characters and stories, not "going over", "torch passing", "rubs", and "good for business"

God forbid some of us want WWE to suceed after these guys leave.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

God forbid some of us want WWE to suceed after these guys leave.

And WWE seems to be doing just fine when these guys aren't around, on the business side of things. So why exactly Rock going over Cena and Brock coming back is now suddenly some death sentence on the WWE I'll never know.

But oddly enough, The Rock and Brock Lesnar still bring more attention and PPV buys than the current guys, so maybe bringing them back is GOOD FOR BUSINESS...

But either way, im sure Cena will be just fine this next year post Rock.

[Metallo]

And thats the problem, Hogan hogs airtime, Eric is pushing his lame son and Dixie being on air is a waste of time and cringeworthy. It's a trio of poison.

TNA let so much young guys go, it's bizarre.

Rock beating Cena a bad move? You're damn right it was. Was I happy about? You're damn right I was. But WWE are big enough to make mistakes like this, because they tend to bounce back quite fast. Hell, Brock coming back makes me forget Rock was even around.

TNA let young guys go but it HAS plenty of young guys. The same is true of WWE. Whats the point there? Hogan AND Dixie have been gone for months but you just ignored that didn't you? Its easy to bash but not give credit where its due and make broad generalizations when you don't watch.

Can WWE REALLY be affording to be making any mistakes with UFC becoming a growing force and the potential BOMBING of the WWE network? WWE films has already been a money loser. Their brand name hasn't helped them "bounce back" there.

Some people probably thought 60 years ago that Pan Am would still be around today since it was the biggest airlines in the country for 60 years. Or that All My Children would still be on terrestrial tv since it was one of the most popular soap operas. Or that WCW would still be around because it was a billion dollar company at one point. It doesn't take much to put any company in a precarious situation.

How is WWE bouncing back quite fast? They've been in the same downward spiral for ten years. They haven't "bounced back" from that. One blip during Wrestlmania season does not change that. Can you guarantee WWE can rely on The Rock in 5 years? What about 10 years?

[AntMan]

And WWE seems to be doing just fine when these guys aren't around, on the business side of things. So why exactly Rock going over Cena and Brock coming back is now suddenly some death sentence on the WWE I'll never know.

But oddly enough, The Rock and Brock Lesnar still bring more attention and PPV buys than the current guys, so maybe bringing them back is GOOD FOR BUSINESS...

But either way, im sure Cena will be just fine this next year post Rock.

It's not just about Cena losing to The Rock or the possible Brock vs Rock WWE title match. If they continue to live off the past with their often half-assed handling of new stars, then it will cause serious problems for WWE.

[Metallo]

And WWE seems to be doing just fine when these guys aren't around, on the business side of things. So why exactly Rock going over Cena and Brock coming back is now suddenly some death sentence on the WWE I'll never know.

But oddly enough, The Rock and Brock Lesnar still bring more attention and PPV buys than the current guys, so maybe bringing them back is GOOD FOR BUSINESS...

But either way, im sure Cena will be just fine this next year post Rock.

Things aren't "just fine" when your ratings are stagnant and your PPVs are continually dwindling.

How the f*** is Lesnar bringing more attention to WWE PPV's? FAIL as usual, Nell.

[Superark]

And WWE seems to be doing just fine when these guys aren't around, on the business side of things. So why exactly Rock going over Cena and Brock coming back is now suddenly some death sentence on the WWE I'll never know.

But oddly enough, The Rock and Brock Lesnar still bring more attention and PPV buys than the current guys, so maybe bringing them back is GOOD FOR BUSINESS...

But either way, im sure Cena will be just fine this next year post Rock.


Reading this makes me believe you do not understand what makes the wrestling business tick and grow at all.

[venom892]

I'll give you my two cents. Being fan comes first to me, but what's "good for business" mostly bleeds into that. I want good stories and matches. Right now I feel the best people who provide that are the ones who are on the roster day in and day out. Rock/Cena was mediocre and doesn't hold a candle to Punk/cena or any number of high profile matches. Trust no one who wants something "Good for business" wants to be boring. Imagine if at WM6 we got Sammatino/Hogan instead of Warrior/Hogan. Warrior would have never been launched as a megastar. What about WM14 being HBK/Hogan instead of Austin/HBK? Would the attitude era be as successful?

[Superark]

I'll give you my two cents. Being fan comes first to me, but what's "good for business" mostly bleeds into that. I want good stories and matches. Right now I feel the best people who provide that are the ones who are on the roster day in and day out. Rock/Cena was mediocre and doesn't hold a candle to Punk/cena or any number of high profile matches. Trust no one who wants something "Good for business" wants to be boring. Imagine if at WM6 we got Sammatino/Hogan instead of Warrior/Hogan. Warrior would have never been launched as a megastar. What about WM14 being HBK/Hogan instead of Austin/HBK? Would the attitude era be as successful?


The thing is you can have what's good for the business and have it be entertaining at the same time. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that for some people.

[Metallo]

Reading this makes me believe you do not understand what makes the wrestling business tick and grow at all.

Its LOL worthy sometimes. The Rock helped draw for the biggest show of the year that draws anyway. Otherwise Rock hasn't done very much at all to draw attention for the other PPV's or tv ratings.

Nell LOVES the Attitude Era but he doesn't have the faintest understanding why it had to happen.

Rocks opening segment on the POST Wrestlemania Raw (which almost always does welL) was actually FLAT. It wasn't any better than what they usually see on a good Raw. How the hell was that drawing attention? The overall episode rating wasn't anything to write home about either.

Nell should make a tribute to the Rock and WWE using the "Tell Me a Lie" song from the old Shawn Michaels WWF video.

JwC_DpJLANE

[The Sage]

I'll give you my two cents. Being fan comes first to me, but what's "good for business" mostly bleeds into that. I want good stories and matches. Right now I feel the best people who provide that are the ones who are on the roster day in and day out. Rock/Cena was mediocre and doesn't hold a candle to Punk/cena or any number of high profile matches. Trust no one who wants something "Good for business" wants to be boring. Imagine if at WM6 we got Sammatino/Hogan instead of Warrior/Hogan. Warrior would have never been launched as a megastar. What about WM14 being HBK/Hogan instead of Austin/HBK? Would the attitude era be as successful?

Indeed about being a fan what's "good for business" going hand in hand. Take for example, CM Punk. As a fan, I wanted to see him get pushed because he had the talents to be a top guy but was denied the chance to prove himself.

The main-event scene was getting wary with the same guys over and over again. Cena winning all the time and all that.

CM Punk's gets pushed, you're excited as a fan, as it turns out, it's good for business. WWE gets media attention for the first time in a long time last summer, Cena looks vulnerable and has an opponent that he can have great matches with. The main-event scene has a new face in it, someone else the audience can rally behind. Plus Punk is there all year along.

On top of that, CM Punk brings in as much money in merchandise as Cena does, or even more. CM Punk's push = Great as a fan, and "good for business".

[Dr. Evil]

The best the WWE can hope with the WWE Network is the NFL Network. The odds of that happening though is 0%, namely due to the directions of both the NFL and the WWE. While the NFL Network is not a huge money maker for the NFL, it really hasn't been an albatross around the NFL's neck either, namely because of the billion dollar TV contract that the NFL has with FOX, NBC, CBS and ESPN (as well as games on their own network). Add to that, one of the most popular video game franchises ever. The NFL Network is more of a luxury than a necessity for the NFL. If the NFL decided to shut down the NFL Network today, the NFL would not suffer a whole lot. It would still have their billion dollar TV contract, the Madden NFL series and still be America's #1 sport.

The WWE though has declining business. PPV rates are down, they are losing older fans to the UFC/MMA, TV ratings are inconsistent and they are run by a crazy man known for mood swings. They are taking a significant risk with the WWE Network as it could be a huge albatross around their neck if it fails. Unlike with the NFL, they don't have a billion dollar TV contract to fall back on if their own network fails. It has a great chance to fail because of the fact that it looks like a lot of their programming is going to be crap. The WWE is probably going to rely too much on their own network, making it a necessity rather than a luxury.

If by some miracle, the WWE Network has similar success as the NFL Network though, it'll be a huge win for the WWE. To use a football analogy, the WWE is at a 4th and long at their own 2 yard line in terms of getting their network up and running. They will need a miracle. It is more likely to end up like OWN than the NFL Network if it does launch.

The only thing that both networks will probably have in common is that millions won't have either network on cable.

[Superark]

Its LOL worthy sometimes. The Rock helped draw for the biggest show of the year that draws anyway. Otherwise Rock hasn't done very much at all to draw attention for the other PPV's or tv ratings.

Nell LOVES the Attitude Era but he doesn't have the faintest understanding why it had to happen.

Rocks opening segment on the POST Wrestlemania Raw (which almost always does welL) was actually FLAT. It wasn't any better than what they usually see on a good Raw. How the hell was that drawing attention? The overall episode rating wasn't anything to write home about either.

Nell should make a tribute to the Rock and WWE using the "Tell Me a Lie" song from the old Shawn Michaels WWF video.

JwC_DpJLANE

There is only a few comments that I recollect off the top of my head, but they are head shaking.

The 1.9 million figure that rolled out the other day is BS. The cable companies do not get the actual numbers for at least 3-4 months. They give out estimated numbers based on their numbers and what they think other cable providers did. PPV estimates are never never given out less than a week after the show. There is no telling what WM 28 did. Just for example, the UFC 117 ppv with Sonnen vs. Silva was estimated early as drawing about 1 million PPV buys. What were the actual numbers? About 600,000. That's a huge discrepancy. I'd hold on before counting on the Rock giving Mania any extra boost. He certainly gave none in the ratings.

[Soapy]

:up: x1000

I'll take the "fan" card over the "business" card any day. For my $60, I want entertaining characters and stories, not "going over", "torch passing", "rubs", and "good for business"

Vintage Nell!

[Metallo]

I'll give you my two cents. Being fan comes first to me, but what's "good for business" mostly bleeds into that. I want good stories and matches. Right now I feel the best people who provide that are the ones who are on the roster day in and day out. Rock/Cena was mediocre and doesn't hold a candle to Punk/cena or any number of high profile matches. Trust no one who wants something "Good for business" wants to be boring. Imagine if at WM6 we got Sammatino/Hogan instead of Warrior/Hogan. Warrior would have never been launched as a megastar. What about WM14 being HBK/Hogan instead of Austin/HBK? Would the attitude era be as successful?

Punk/Cena is what they should be doing more of. Putting characters in compelling angles and storylines is what draws. Thats what made Hogan relevant again. Thats how Austin and Michaels kicked off the Attitude Era.

I want a good story that can continue to pay off every week. Thats what made the Attitude Era good.

Hogan and co could claim to be the "bigger draws" in WCW in 1998 too but their shenanigans against Sting and Goldberg were two nails in that companies coffin.

As far as HBK/Hogan it would have been stupid for Hogan to go over in the 1998 WWE despite being at the center of the 90's boom but at least it would have been more entertaining than Rock vs Cena.

Great point about Bruno. The Rock/Cena argument is like saying It would be fine for Bruno to come back in 1984 and squash Hogan. Bruno was STILL a draw. he could still go. Or that it was fine for Hogan to ACTUALLY lose to Nick Bockwinkle in the AWA. Bockwinkle could still go in the early 80's but history has proven how stupid that call was.

I'd LOVE to have a lot more national level wrestling to watch right now but sadly I don't have the choice. It would be nice to have a choice. It would have been great if the Invasion had gone better. But we should all shut up and enjoy what we got.


The WWE though has declining business. PPV rates are down, they are losing older fans to the UFC/MMA, TV ratings are inconsistent and they are run by a crazy man known for mood swings. They are taking a significant risk with the WWE Network as it could be a huge albatross around their neck if it fails. Unlike with the NFL, they don't have a billion dollar TV contract to fall back on if their own network fails. It has a great chance to fail because of the fact that it looks like a lot of their programming is going to be crap. The WWE is probably going to rely too much on their own network, making it a necessity rather than a luxury.

Thats a good point about MMA. WWE handles it wrong and they only push those young WWE fans towards MMA sooner. THATS why its dangerous to disappoint fickle young fans.


If by some miracle, the WWE Network has similar success as the NFL Network though, it'll be a huge win for the WWE. To use a football analogy, the WWE is at a 4th and long at their own 2 yard line in terms of getting their network up and running. They will need a miracle. It is more likely to end up like OWN than the NFL Network if it does launch.

The only thing that both networks will probably have in common is that millions won't have either network on cable.

The WWF is the biggest wrestling company int he USA by far...but its not a pimple on the a** of the NFL. People worship football and they take it seriously.


There is only a few comments that I recollect off the top of my head, but they are head shaking.

Here's one: saying Brock Lesnar has brought more attention on PPV. There are so many things wrong with that.

If he means in UFC then he doesn't even understand how those demographics break down. He had some fans who followed him into UFC who cheered him and others who despise pro wrestling and only wanted to see him get demolished. THOSE fans will NOT be following him back to WWE. They hate wrestling.

If he means bringing in WWE PPV attention...he hasn't even been on one in 8 years! :doh: He certainly hasn't had one NOW

http://www.palzoo.net/file/pic/gallery/2875_view.jpg

Some people are just Carnac I guess.

[TripleR]

Reading through the last few pages here, one thing I want to weigh in on is the Hell in a Cell discussion.

First, I absolutely think that the HIAC ppv needs to go. It's supposed to be the ultimate feud finale that should only be brought out when a long running intense feud has to be ended once and for all, between two guys who have complete total contempt for each other.

That being said, I think it can be used effectively under the PG restrictions. Hell in a Cell, to me, isn't just about crazy dives off the top of the cage, but about two men who loathe each other being locked in like animals, and going completely barbaric on each other.

At WM, that's exactly what Triple H and Undertaker did. Once that Cell lowered, they went to WAR. They didn't need to break out of the cage or abuse it, they just knew there was no way out and that this was THE END, and they battled as such. That is what Hell in a Cell should mean in my opinion. Honestly, I feel it's weakened by them escaping the cage, since the purpose of the roof on top is to make sure no one gets out.

As for the match itself, it wasn't a great technical match by any means, and I love those matches, but this wasn't meant to be that. It was the two masters of The Devil's Playground trying to prove something to themselves by ending one another. The storytelling was topnotch, Shawn added so much to it, and their refusals to give in, be it Taker's demanding that Shawn not ring the bell, or Triple H's defiance up until the very end, all sold the story to perfection. Just a purely epic battle between the last two warriors of a past generation, built on a story arch that began when Shawn retired Flair. Really can't ask for anything more on the night that's supposed to be about huge moments. It blew Rock/Cena away if you ask me.

[AntMan]

Mick Foley makes another comment about Ambrose on twitter: Three months ago,people asked me about facing TAKER at Mania - now, it's a guy from FCW. TITANIC 3D isn't the only ship sinking this week. Regal chimes in: Mick don't take this man lightly.

[venom892]

Ambrose seems like he's going to debut with a huge angle. If I were WWE though I'd draw it out. I'd Ambrose come out on Smackdown and degrade Foley and his career. But I'd have Foley refuse to fight him. Then I'd have Ambrose going through guys taunting mick along the way until mick accepts when Ambrose crosses the line talking trash about Mick's family.

[vantheman77]

Yeah WWE has no competition so they are fine aslong as they do not start losing chunks of money and I do not see that happening anytime soon. They would have to be wCw circa 1999-2001 to go out of buisness.

Even if TNA is the number two promotion, their weaknesses as a promotion are being exposed for the last two years since Hogan first got there.

I agree that Sting, Kurt Angle, RVD, Christopher Daniels, and Tara are the only older wrestlers in the roster. Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, and Eric Bischoff are serving non-wrestling roles. Most of the talent who are wrestling are mostly 20's and 30's.

[AntMan]

Ambrose seems like he's going to debut with a huge angle. If I were WWE though I'd draw it out. I'd Ambrose come out on Smackdown and degrade Foley and his career. But I'd have Foley refuse to fight him. Then I'd have Ambrose going through guys taunting mick along the way until mick accepts when Ambrose crosses the line talking trash about Mick's family.

I like this idea.

[The Sage]

So far, the only Hell in a Cell match that I've liked in the PG era is Edge vs Undertaker. They made it work.

[venom892]

I think Ambrose needs a little credibility before wrestling Foley to make it believable.

[venom892]

So far, the only Hell in a Cell match that I've liked in the PG era is Edge vs Undertaker. They made it work.I saw that match the other day on Netflix. I put it up there among the top 5 cell matches.

[Metallo]

WWE Hall of Fame 2012

S4xQkk35HPU

[AntMan]

I think Ambrose needs a little credibility before wrestling Foley to make it believable.

That makes sense. I hope WWE does that but they usually rush these things.

[Lobo]

---So who should Ambrose debut against?

Oh and whoever said Sandow was giving them The Genius vibe, I totally agree.

Also just wanted to say something about Leakee in FCW, while he has a ways to go, with his size, look, and pedigree I see him being a star in the WWE

[AntMan]

Well, they're doing this angle with Foley, but I don't know who he wiill face in his first TV match. Regal probably.

[venom892]

I'd have him debut by interrupting Foley, no music, no grand entrance. Have him come through the crowd even giving the vibe he isn't suppose to be there. He can mention he's from FCW and berate Foley for what his legacy has done to the business. He is escorted out of the ring but when he gets back stage Johnny Ace hires him for his bravado.

[LuisTX85]

I'd have him debut by interrupting Foley, no music, no grand entrance. Have him come through the crowd even giving the vibe he isn't suppose to be there. He can mention he's from FCW and berate Foley for what his legacy has done to the business. He is escorted out of the ring but when he gets back stage Johnny Ace hires him for his bravado.

Sounds good to me!

[Dr. Evil]

The Chair Shot Reality Guys discuss Brock Lesnar's return:

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/252807-csr-2-brock-lesnars-wwe-return-a-future

[NDX]

Skimming SD, that Ryback debut was absolute ****. I'm wondering if the laughing was more to make a joke of the gimmick and they'll work something around that. Either way, a waste of time.

[Darkness Falls]

what was everyone's thoughts on the hell in a cell match ?
i thought it was great, it managed to tell every story it needed to tell

taker looked like he was much healthier than he was at last years wrestlemania
the ending with the 3 of them caught me off guard, its rare to see such a showing of respect after a match i thought it was the perfect way to end it.

[Project862006]

Reading this makes me believe you do not understand what makes the wrestling business tick and grow at all.
i dont even think he likes wrestling

he likes entertaining characters over a great wrestling match

i think he would prefer a miz promo over a cm punk match lol

[TheOnlyOmega]

Ambrose seems like he's going to debut with a huge angle. If I were WWE though I'd draw it out. I'd Ambrose come out on Smackdown and degrade Foley and his career. But I'd have Foley refuse to fight him. Then I'd have Ambrose going through guys taunting mick along the way until mick accepts when Ambrose crosses the line talking trash about Mick's family.

I'd have him debut by interrupting Foley, no music, no grand entrance. Have him come through the crowd even giving the vibe he isn't suppose to be there. He can mention he's from FCW and berate Foley for what his legacy has done to the business. He is escorted out of the ring but when he gets back stage Johnny Ace hires him for his bravado.
I'd have Ambrose attack Foley. Would let the general audience know he means business. I also agree that there needs to be a "What is going on? Who the hell is that?" feel to it.

[venom892]

I think a hard slap to Foley's face would really have some impact.

[bullets]

- Dolph Ziggler took a passive aggressive shot at Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson over the great one's limited schedule with WWE via twitter.


A Twitter user wrote to the WWE Superstar this week, ""Couldn't decide which flexforce WWE figure to buy between your action figure and @therock 's.. chose the rock in the end!

Ziggler responded, "Typical, just make sure you only play with it 4-5 times a year...."






:lmao:




what was everyone's thoughts on the hell in a cell match ?
i thought it was great, it managed to tell every story it needed to tell

taker looked like he was much healthier than he was at last years wrestlemania
the ending with the 3 of them caught me off guard, its rare to see such a showing of respect after a match i thought it was the perfect way to end it.




It surpassed my expectations. They really focused on telling a good story and it felt like a fitting end to an era. Great match. Also adding to what TripleR posted, I didn't once think about the pg aspect , it was brutal enough.





Skimming SD, that Ryback debut was absolute ****. I'm wondering if the laughing was more to make a joke of the gimmick and they'll work something around that. Either way, a waste of time.




I don't really care for Ryback. I thought the debut was unintentionally hilarious because of the jobber's acting. Which made me think , they should have a backstage gimmick where a tag team sits there critiquing the show and making fun of it.

[TheOnlyOmega]

Ryback is destined for obscurity it seems :csad:

[Lunar_Wolf]

TNA let young guys go but it HAS plenty of young guys. The same is true of WWE. Whats the point there? Hogan AND Dixie have been gone for months but you just ignored that didn't you? Its easy to bash but not give credit where its due and make broad generalizations when you don't watch.

Can WWE REALLY be affording to be making any mistakes with UFC becoming a growing force and the potential BOMBING of the WWE network? WWE films has already been a money loser. Their brand name hasn't helped them "bounce back" there.

Some people probably thought 60 years ago that Pan Am would still be around today since it was the biggest airlines in the country for 60 years. Or that All My Children would still be on terrestrial tv since it was one of the most popular soap operas. Or that WCW would still be around because it was a billion dollar company at one point. It doesn't take much to put any company in a precarious situation.

How is WWE bouncing back quite fast? They've been in the same downward spiral for ten years. They haven't "bounced back" from that. One blip during Wrestlmania season does not change that. Can you guarantee WWE can rely on The Rock in 5 years? What about 10 years?

I used to watch TNA. I tune in now and again. Hell I went to a show when they brought it over here for the first time. Funny thing about that show; we were told a major surprise would be revealed during the event. Turned out that this ''major surprise'' was an appearance from Dixie Carter, who was signing autographs before and during the show.:dry:

Now if you want me to give TNA credit, I can. I never said TNA was absolute garbage.

UFC is massive, but it won't be the driving force to end WWE. UFC and Wrestling entertainment are completely two different things. Each company offers different things. WWE network could be a hit, it might not.

No one knows if WWE will continue to survive or not. It can be debated to no end, but no one has that answer. Can WWE rely on The Rock? Who knows? Who knows where Rock will be in years from now. He could get sick of acting, he might not. He plans to wrestle again and that's all we know.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

i dont even think he likes wrestling

he likes entertaining characters over a great wrestling match

i think he would prefer a miz promo over a cm punk match lol

:facepalm:

I've said it a thousand times if I've said it once - I watch wrestling for the stories and the characters. I want to see wrestling matches that are character and story driven.

You're right that id rather watch a Miz promo over a CM Punk match if it's some random CM Punk match that doesn't have any storyline purpose. If I want to watch a pure athletic display, I will watch legitimate sports like boxing or MMA, not scripted professional wrestling.

I do however enjoy a good CM Punk match when there is much at stake character or storyline wise, such as CM Punk v. John Cena at Money in the Bank, or CM Punk v. Chris Jericho, and I have stated numerous times that some of my all time favorites are guys like Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Edge, etc... Guys who are renowned for their in ring ability, as well as guys like The Rock, Austin, Triple H, or yes, even The Miz, who are known for character over "technical ability" but incorporate strong character work into their matches, as well as being won over by a handful of guys like Jeff Hardy, Rey Mysterio, and Rob Van Dam for their in ring work alone, since these guys all lacked in the character department.

But yes, in something like professional wrestling, the character and story is key because it is a scripted, non legitimate athletic display. Thus, you can't invest in the outcome alone - you have to have characters and stories to draw you in and make you invest. Without that, its nothing, because athletically, ots a phony athletic competition.

[NDX]

- Dolph Ziggler took a passive aggressive shot at Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson over the great one's limited schedule with WWE via twitter.


A Twitter user wrote to the WWE Superstar this week, ""Couldn't decide which flexforce WWE figure to buy between your action figure and @therock 's.. chose the rock in the end!

Ziggler responded, "Typical, just make sure you only play with it 4-5 times a year...."

#Heel

[Metallo]

I used to watch TNA. I tune in now and again. Hell I went to a show when they brought it over here for the first time. Funny thing about that show; we were told a major surprise would be revealed during the event. Turned out that this ''major surprise'' was an appearance from Dixie Carter, who was signing autographs before and during the show.:dry:

"USED TO" and "Now and Again" being the key words here. How can you generalize what TNA is doing NOW or HAS been doing since you don't watch or don't watch very often? The crack about "old guys" is silly when TNA has been pushing young talent harder than they have in years Hogan or no Hogan. Jeff Hardy and Angle are in the middle of the show in the midcard matches SUPPORTING the TNA originals in the main event exactly how they should be. TNA has a lot of problems but your crack is at best inaccurate.

UFC is massive, but it won't be the driving force to end WWE. UFC and Wrestling entertainment are completely two different things. Each company offers different things. WWE network could be a hit, it might not.

I never said it would be the "driving force" or that WWE would go out of business but its one thing among many that is competing with WWE for the entertainment dollar. UFC been shown to eat into PPV buyrates in the past and MMA has been drawing more and more wrestling fans that get older and lose interest. Thats why its so important too bring in young fans. Various sites posted the stats to how much revenue UFC and WWE make off their tv deals. UFC makes more. Just because they offer different products does not mean there isn't some crossover. Vince McMahon has tried that argument too but it doesn't work. If UFC were no threat why does McMahon seem to make certain moves that paint it as such? Like not allowing his WWE champion to walk a UFC fighter to the ring?

Potential wrestlign recruitment prospects are deciding on MMA. Taker said if MMA had been around when he was young he would have done that. Wrestlers who are sick of the business and its BS are goign to give MMA a shot.

As far as the WWE network being a hit all signs point to "doubtful." They are having issues launching it right now and filling key positions. There are all kinds of problems with this. Particularly with this economy.

Every time McMahon has stepped outside of his comfort zone and tried other things without any experience its been a failure. he tried to promote boxing and it failed. The XFL failed. The WBF failed. WWE films is losing money. McMahon may know wrestling but he's never run a network before. They tried to bring SNME back and didn't realize why THAT failed on network television.

I mean...Jeez...He couldn't even make WCW work after he bought it and that was a wrestling company.

No one knows if WWE will continue to survive or not. It can be debated to no end, but no one has that answer. Can WWE rely on The Rock? Who knows? Who knows where Rock will be in years from now. He could get sick of acting, he might not. He plans to wrestle again and that's all we know.

I doubt he's going to get sick of something that pays him ten times what he makes in WWE thats less dangerous physically. When the Rock came back certain people around here talked about how he could be around once a month and wrestle a little bit. I gave them a reality check and told them the chances of that happening were slim. I was right.

Relying on a guy that wrestles at BEST twice a year is an awful strategy going forward because quite frankly thats not something they can depend on forever. The business itself has proved how not investing in the future can have disastrous consequences.

As far as WWE continuing to survive I'd want to be be more safe than sorry and take steps to ensure the companies long term future instead of pie in the sky ideas and short term thinking. Thats what happened to WCW.

[Metallo]

- Dolph Ziggler took a passive aggressive shot at Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson over the great one's limited schedule with WWE via twitter.


A Twitter user wrote to the WWE Superstar this week, ""Couldn't decide which flexforce WWE figure to buy between your action figure and @therock 's.. chose the rock in the end!

Ziggler responded, "Typical, just make sure you only play with it 4-5 times a year...."






:lmao:

Dolph is hilarious...and being generous to the Rock :funny:


:facepalm:

I've said it a thousand times if I've said it once - I watch wrestling for the stories and the characters. I want to see wrestling matches that are character and story driven.

You're right that id rather watch a Miz promo over a CM Punk match if it's some random CM Punk match that doesn't have any storyline purpose. If I want to watch a pure athletic display, I will watch legitimate sports like boxing or MMA, not scripted professional wrestling.

I do however enjoy a good CM Punk match when there is much at stake character or storyline wise, such as CM Punk v. John Cena at Money in the Bank, or CM Punk v. Chris Jericho, and I have stated numerous times that some of my all time favorites are guys like Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Edge, etc... Guys who are renowned for their in ring ability, as well as guys like The Rock, Austin, Triple H, or yes, even The Miz, who are known for character over "technical ability" but incorporate strong character work into their matches, as well as being won over by a handful of guys like Jeff Hardy, Rey Mysterio, and Rob Van Dam for their in ring work alone, since these guys all lacked in the character department.

But yes, in something like professional wrestling, the character and story is key because it is a scripted, non legitimate athletic display. Thus, you can't invest in the outcome alone - you have to have characters and stories to draw you in and make you invest. Without that, its nothing, because athletically, ots a phony athletic competition.

The business needs both to survive. Anybody with a clue can see that. If it was JUST about the skits WWE would have gone that way entirely already. There has to be a balance. If you took away the matches or the backstage segments/comedy WWE would lose a lot of its apeal.

Nell you aren't a Wrestling fan. Sh** you aren't even a WWE fan. You are an Attitude Era fan. Thats why you NEVER seem to talk about any other wrestling past or present. Thats why you have the Vince Russo mentality.

[herolee10]

A friend of mine had the weirdest dream; he saw Brock having a match with Santion in what was supposed to be a squash job, only for Brock to injure his leg from a botched body suplex and announcing to everyone that he was done for the rest of his career.lol:oldrazz::doh:

[Daniel Thompson]

"USED TO" and "Now and Again" being the key words here. How can you generalize what TNA is doing NOW or HAS been doing since you don't watch or don't watch very often? The crack about "old guys" is silly when TNA has been pushing young talent harder than they have in years Hogan or no Hogan. Jeff Hardy and Angle are in the middle of the show in the midcard matches SUPPORTING the TNA originals in the main event exactly how they should be. TNA has a lot of problems but your crack is at best inaccurate.



I never said it would be the "driving force" or that WWE would go out of business but its one thing among many that is competing with WWE for the entertainment dollar. UFC been shown to eat into PPV buyrates in the past and MMA has been drawing more and more wrestling fans that get older and lose interest. Thats why its so important too bring in young fans. Various sites posted the stats to how much revenue UFC and WWE make off their tv deals. UFC makes more. Just because they offer different products does not mean there isn't some crossover. Vince McMahon has tried that argument too but it doesn't work. If UFC were no threat why does McMahon seem to make certain moves that paint it as such? Like not allowing his WWE champion to walk a UFC fighter to the ring?

Potential wrestlign recruitment prospects are deciding on MMA. Taker said if MMA had been around when he was young he would have done that. Wrestlers who are sick of the business and its BS are goign to give MMA a shot.

As far as the WWE network being a hit all signs point to "doubtful." They are having issues launching it right now and filling key positions. There are all kinds of problems with this. Particularly with this economy.

Every time McMahon has stepped outside of his comfort zone and tried other things without any experience its been a failure. he tried to promote boxing and it failed. The XFL failed. The WBF failed. WWE films is losing money. McMahon may know wrestling but he's never run a network before. They tried to bring SNME back and didn't realize why THAT failed on network television.

I mean...Jeez...He couldn't even make WCW work after he bought it and that was a wrestling company.



I doubt he's going to get sick of something that pays him ten times what he makes in WWE thats less dangerous physically. When the Rock came back certain people around here talked about how he could be around once a month and wrestle a little bit. I gave them a reality check and told them the chances of that happening were slim. I was right.

Relying on a guy that wrestles at BEST twice a year is an awful strategy going forward because quite frankly thats not something they can depend on forever. The business itself has proved how not investing in the future can have disastrous consequences.

As far as WWE continuing to survive I'd want to be be more safe than sorry and take steps to ensure the companies long term future instead of pie in the sky ideas and short term thinking. Thats what happened to WCW.

I thought the return of SNME failed because the matches were mostly crap? And wCw was dead by time Vince bought it, no way he gonna bring the magic that was wCw back, plus the WWE fans ****ted on wCw when they had that Booker T vs. Buff Bagwell match in 2001 so Vince knew the fans would not care for wCw.

But everything esle I agree with, Vince just needs to stick with what made WWE big and him into a billionaire in the first place and that was WRESTLING, not entertainment, but him running a wrestling company is what got him big and his company into a global empire and icon. Also when did Vince try to promote boxing?

[louiebling$]

:facepalm:

I've said it a thousand times if I've said it once - I watch wrestling for the stories and the characters. I want to see wrestling matches that are character and story driven.

You're right that id rather watch a Miz promo over a CM Punk match if it's some random CM Punk match that doesn't have any storyline purpose. If I want to watch a pure athletic display, I will watch legitimate sports like boxing or MMA, not scripted professional wrestling.

I do however enjoy a good CM Punk match when there is much at stake character or storyline wise, such as CM Punk v. John Cena at Money in the Bank, or CM Punk v. Chris Jericho, and I have stated numerous times that some of my all time favorites are guys like Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Edge, etc... Guys who are renowned for their in ring ability, as well as guys like The Rock, Austin, Triple H, or yes, even The Miz, who are known for character over "technical ability" but incorporate strong character work into their matches, as well as being won over by a handful of guys like Jeff Hardy, Rey Mysterio, and Rob Van Dam for their in ring work alone, since these guys all lacked in the character department.

But yes, in something like professional wrestling, the character and story is key because it is a scripted, non legitimate athletic display. Thus, you can't invest in the outcome alone - you have to have characters and stories to draw you in and make you invest. Without that, its nothing, because athletically, ots a phony athletic competition.

This right here proves....you ARE NOT a Wrestling Fan....I've chose to not chime on several Debates between you and HR but now I'm chiming in....with that statement that tells me you are not a wrestling fan... your a fan of Drama...meaning story and character but fro what you said right there is saying these guys aren't really fighting if I want to see some real athletes id watch Boxing or MMA.....I am a Pro Wrestling Fan....everyone else in this thread is a Pro Wrestling Fan and that's why you but heads with so many people because your not on the same level as us.

The rest of us could be given an Iron Man Match Between Daniel Bryan and Punk with No story or build up whatsoever and we would mark out and dedicate probably 5 pages alone to discussing that match....that's because we are Pro Wrestling Fans.

[Metallo]

I thought the return of SNME failed because the matches were mostly crap?

The show started strong. Edge vs Cena wasn't a crap matchup. SNME's failure had nothing to do with the cards so much as Vince and NBC being out of touch with the times and the audience. Even when they put on a good show it drew poor ratings.


And wCw was dead by time Vince bought it, no way he gonna bring the magic that was wCw back, plus the WWE fans ****ted on wCw when they had that Booker T vs. Buff Bagwell match in 2001 so Vince knew the fans would not care for wCw.Thats probably because that match was TERRIBLE and Bagwell wasn't much better. I've met the guy. Nice guy...but everything Jim Ross complained about is true.

If Vince had sense enough to resuscitate his own product when it was at ITS worst he could have done it with WCW. Some of the same behind the scenes people that had worked there were workign for WWF at the time and knew that product at its best and its worst. Jim Ross first made an impact workign for The Crocketts and WCW. WCW failed because Vince was more concerned about his ego and didn't have the patience. If they could push The Rock vs John Cena angle for an entire year WWF vs WCW had MORE than enough material. A year after he bought WCW some of those bigger Time Warner contracts were expiring. Hell FLAIR made his WWF return shortly after The Invasion ended. The NWO arrive da few months later. But they hotshottted the whole thing instead of slow burning it. Putting Shane and Stephanie in charge of WCW and ECW did them no favors either. It became a glorified McMahon family fued when it could have been so much more.

Its the same reason the new ECW died a slow death. It was never going to be the exact same as the classic ECW but Vince made some errors there because of his ego

But everything esle I agree with, Vince just needs to stick with what made WWE big and him into a billionaire in the first place and that was WRESTLING, not entertainment, but him running a wrestling company is what got him big and his company into a global empire and icon. Also when did Vince try to promote boxing?

WWE can be wrestling and entertainment but WWE ain't Saturday Night Live. Not exactly. They tried that with the guest host concept and that fizzled pretty fast and showed WWE works because of various elements not one over the other.

What Nell fails to understand is you can have all the great promos in the world but if the match is sh** the fans feel burned. Thats why the Fingerpoke of doom burned them. Thats why Starrcade 97 burned them. Thats why Nash tasering Goldberg at SC 98 burned them.

The promos are a great buildup but the matches are the payoff. Its particular worse when fans buy the matches on PPV and they disappoint.

McMahon promoted a Sugar Ray Leonard fight in the late 80's. I don't think he got past one show. There was also the restaurant "The World" which didn't last long. I believe WWE also bough a building in Vegas for some kind of potential project there but quickly sold it when they realized the risk.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

This right here proves....you ARE NOT a Wrestling Fan....I've chose to not chime on several Debates between you and HR but now I'm chiming in....with that statement that tells me you are not a wrestling fan... your a fan of Drama...meaning story and character but fro what you said right there is saying these guys aren't really fighting if I want to see some real athletes id watch Boxing or MMA.....I am a Pro Wrestling Fan....everyone else in this thread is a Pro Wrestling Fan and that's why you but heads with so many people because your not on the same level as us.

The rest of us could be given an Iron Man Match Between Daniel Bryan and Punk with No story or build up whatsoever and we would mark out and dedicate probably 5 pages alone to discussing that match....that's because we are Pro Wrestling Fans.

Um... the drama is part of the professional wrestling package. As is the spectacle of the in ring wrestling itself. But seriously, without the storyline behind it, what exactly are you watching?

You're watching a couple guys performing a choreographed dance, essentially, where they are pretending to put each other in submission holds, and hit pre scripted spots and bumps with no real consequences behind it because everything is scripted.

Or - I could watch MMA, see the same type of thing, only there is real consequence because it's not scripted, and I don't need "storylines" or trash talking" because it's actually real, and the investment comes in the form of real consequences from what's happening in the octagon.

Without the storylines, character, and drama, professional wrestling is just choreographed pretend fighting, which is definitely a talent in and of itself, but hardly anything to invest in. The character, storylines, and drama are an integral part of what is professional wrestling.

[venom892]

I'm going to say this again. What happens in the ring is storytelling. Even without a ton of promos before it or without a nice little video package a match, every match tells a story. The action in the ring conveys drama, will, determination, anger, frustration, etc. I don't understand how you don't get that.

[louiebling$]

Um... the drama is part of the professional wrestling package. As is the spectacle of the in ring wrestling itself. But seriously, without the storyline behind it, what exactly are you watching?

You're watching a couple guys performing a choreographed dance, essentially, where they are pretending to put each other in submission holds, and hit pre scripted spots and bumps with no real consequences behind it because everything is scripted.

Or - I could watch MMA, see the same type of thing, only there is real consequence because it's not scripted, and I don't need "storylines" or trash talking" because it's actually real, and the investment comes in the form of real consequences from what's happening in the octagon.

Without the storylines, character, and drama, professional wrestling is just choreographed pretend fighting, which is definitely a talent in and of itself, but hardly anything to invest in. The character, storylines, and drama are an integral part of what is professional wrestling.ok so what I'm trying to say cuz you missed it is...Wrestling isn't just character and drama....its an Art.

With the drama and Story you need Great in ring wrestling....Promos can tell a part of the story...when they are in that ring they tell the entire story...its almost Majestic....its not just "choreographed Fighting" its Art.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I do get that.

Which is why I absolutely loved Triple H v. Undertaker at Wrestlemania 28 because there was a great wrestling story being told in the ring. Same reason why I loved Shawn Michaels v. Undertaker at Wrestlemania 26, or The Rock v. Triple H at Backslash 2000 or Judgment Day 2000 still stand out to me as great matches, because there was great storyline happening in those matches as well.

[venom892]

But do realize Shawn/Taker or Taker/HHH would have been great matches even without weeks of promos prior? Because to me promos are just trailers. The movie is the match.

[Van Petrol]

http://i.imgur.com/vLPRR.jpg

[louiebling$]

But do realize Shawn/Taker or Taker/HHH would have been great matches even without weeks of promos prior? Because to me promos are just trailers. The movie is the match.
This....great analogy :up:

[venom892]

I wonder if Batista wakes up in the mourning thinking of new ways to be douchey.

[Superark]

I thought the return of SNME failed because the matches were mostly crap? And wCw was dead by time Vince bought it, no way he gonna bring the magic that was wCw back, plus the WWE fans ****ted on wCw when they had that Booker T vs. Buff Bagwell match in 2001 so Vince knew the fans would not care for wCw.

But everything esle I agree with, Vince just needs to stick with what made WWE big and him into a billionaire in the first place and that was WRESTLING, not entertainment, but him running a wrestling company is what got him big and his company into a global empire and icon. Also when did Vince try to promote boxing?

I'm not trying to be a jerk but ugh! C'mon man with the WCW lettering!

http://i.imgur.com/vLPRR.jpg

The Batista Uber-Douche look is now complete

[Pink Ranger]

He looks like The Situation had sex with a rooster.

[The Apocalypse]

Um... the drama is part of the professional wrestling package. As is the spectacle of the in ring wrestling itself. But seriously, without the storyline behind it, what exactly are you watching?

You're watching a couple guys performing a choreographed dance, essentially, where they are pretending to put each other in submission holds, and hit pre scripted spots and bumps with no real consequences behind it because everything is scripted.

Or - I could watch MMA, see the same type of thing, only there is real consequence because it's not scripted, and I don't need "storylines" or trash talking" because it's actually real, and the investment comes in the form of real consequences from what's happening in the octagon.

Without the storylines, character, and drama, professional wrestling is just choreographed pretend fighting, which is definitely a talent in and of itself, but hardly anything to invest in. The character, storylines, and drama are an integral part of what is professional wrestling.

I'm on the fence with this argument because there is just a handful of guys I'd actually sit down and watch wrestle and a lot of the times the storylines are more interesting than filler matches. But while some of the matches are scripted, like those 'big spots' you mentioned doesn't mean they dont have consequences. I think it was the former Japneese wrestler Hybusa who was just going for a casual spring-board moonsault, same one Jericho does, his foot got caught on the top rope as he was flipping, broken neck and he had to stop wrestling.

As for the guy who said random 60 min Iron Man match between Punk and DB :up: IF ONLY. :woot:

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

But do realize Shawn/Taker or Taker/HHH would have been great matches even without weeks of promos prior? Because to me promos are just trailers. The movie is the match.

I disagree.

I see it as the promise are the storyline of the movie - the first 2 acts.

The match is the 3rd act, the climax.

If you don't invest me in the character and his struggles, then im not invested in his fight.

[MMMMM...Dounuts]

http://i.imgur.com/vLPRR.jpg

I've heard that he's growing it out for a movie role. Possibly the new Riddick movie.

[AntMan]

I can enjoy an old match on DVD or youtube without knowing the characters or storyline, because.....you know.....I'm a fan of wrestling.

[louiebling$]

I'm on the fence with this argument because there is just a handful of guys I'd actually sit down and watch wrestle and a lot of the times the storylines are more interesting than filler matches. But while some of the matches are scripted, like those 'big spots' you mentioned doesn't mean they dont have consequences. I think it was the former Japneese wrestler Hybusa who was just going for a casual spring-board moonsault, same one Jericho does, his foot got caught on the top rope as he was flipping, broken neck and he had to stop wrestling.

As for the guy who said random 60 min Iron Man match between Punk and DB :up: IF ONLY. :woot:

I have a dream man....and in my dream its glorious lol

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Promos not promise

[louiebling$]

I've heard that he's growing it out for a movie role. Possibly the new Riddick movie.

That looks very similar to Urbans hairdo in Riddick now that you mention it

[Nemi]

He looks like The Situation had sex with a rooster.

:lmao: :pal:

[The Sage]

what was everyone's thoughts on the hell in a cell match ?
i thought it was great, it managed to tell every story it needed to tell

taker looked like he was much healthier than he was at last years wrestlemania
the ending with the 3 of them caught me off guard, its rare to see such a showing of respect after a match i thought it was the perfect way to end it.

Taker definitely looked much healthier and less beat up. He really hasn't been the same since Wrestlemania 25. He looked well rested.

- Dolph Ziggler took a passive aggressive shot at Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson over the great one's limited schedule with WWE via twitter.


A Twitter user wrote to the WWE Superstar this week, ""Couldn't decide which flexforce WWE figure to buy between your action figure and @therock 's.. chose the rock in the end!

Ziggler responded, "Typical, just make sure you only play with it 4-5 times a year...."


:lmao:

Do I smell a Rock/Ziggler feud in the future? :woot:

[The Sage]

With only one week after The Undertaker’s WrestleMania winning streak reached 20-0 inside Hell in a Cell, news of a 3 Disc DVD and 2 Disc Blu-Ray could be in the works looking at The Undertaker’s legendary streak.

The set is tentatively titled “Undertaker Streak” and scheduled for release in the US on July 24, 2012, according to VideoETA.com.

This is not the first time WWE have released a DVD set on the Undertaker’s WrestleMania winning streak as 2007/08 saw the release of The Undertaker 15-0.

http://www.pwpix.net/pwpixnews/headlines/335860113.php

[MMMMM...Dounuts]

I knew it!!! As soon as we got 20-0 we'd start seeing the merchandise. This is why I did not think Triple H or Sawn Michaels would beat Taker the past 4 Wrestlmanias, so the 20-0 merch would come out and Vince will make a lot of $$.

[Dr. Evil]

Do I smell a Rock/Ziggler feud in the future? :woot:

Hopefully the Rock will make mention of the fact that he was once a member of the Spirit Squad.

[Superark]

Ok so I just watched all of IMPACT tonight, courtesy of Youtube and fan upload of the show.

It was actually a very solid show and I was pleasantly surprised at the minimal use of Hogan. He was peppered here in there, but every segment with him served a purpose and never felt like Hogan overload.

-The opening segment was ok. Once you got past the Hogan entrance and the typical rehearsed Hogan promo, and just the utter stupidity of the idea Hogan is the GM after trying to take over TNA last year from Dixie, the segment actually filled out nicely. They set the tone of the night and Lockdown with this by having Hogan layout the matches for Impact and Lockdown. Solid segment.

-Angle vs. Hardy was a hell of a tv match! These guys busted their butts and gave us a nice taste of what to expect at Lockdown. It's good to see this feud taken a little bit more seriously heading into Lockdown than how it was booked towards Victory Road. Angle takes the count out to weasel out of getting pinned which sets up Hogan making the match at Lockdown with Hardy. Very good start to Impact. I am expecting these two to steal the show at Lockdown. That match should be off the charts!

-Bully Ray is so fantastic as a heel! His Calfzilla line was hilarious! Ray is great at getting heat and he makes everyone who is in a program with him an instant face. After ripping into Aries for a bit, Aries comes out. Just when it seems Austin is going to talk, he attacks Ray with a fire, which the crowd loved. Bully then hits the best powerbomb I have seen in years and layout Aries. This should lead up to a match between the two at Lockdown. I suspect Ray will go over at the PPV to set up a title program with Storm, but Ray is a pro and no doubt Aries will come out looking strong in defeat. I can only imagine the heat that match will draw from the Nashville crowd.

-The Knockouts proved once again that they blow the WWE Divas out of the water, both in terms of wrestling and personality. Six-Way match was a lot of fun! I'm not crazy about Velvet getting the title shot, but she's over so it should make the crowd happy.

-The trend of good wrestling on Impact for night continued with Storm vs. Styles. It was a good match with AJ taking a hell of a superkick! He sold that kick tremendously! Common sense would say that Storm wouldn't wrestle such a tough opponent so close to his title match, but I liked how they tried to play it up as Storm wanting to stay tuned up for Roode figuring if he can get past AJ, he knows Roode will be no problem. They played this as competitive sportsmanship. Good stuff.

-MCMG are back! Hopefully this re-energizes the tag-division once again. They booked this perfectly with MCMG pretty much dominating MA and looking strong and then calling out the champs. Sabin hasn't missed a step and I'm really looking forward to a series of matches between Joe/Magnus and MCMG.

-UGH I hate the Hogan/Bischoff crap! Get it off my tv! No one cares about Garrett either.

-The Main Event was ok. Anderson is tired as an act. I think they should have had Roode go over clean here, but TNA seems bound and determined to have Roode be the bastard who cheats. At least Roode is awesome at it! Storm comes out with Hogan and Roode runs aways while cursing at them. It was an ok ending that served it purpose at continuing the Roode heat.

-Random thoughts: Say what you want about Eric Bischoff being employed by TNA, but one thing you cannot deny is the production value he's added to the company. It's such a better looking television product in every way you can imagine. It's a shame the show is held on a soundstage. I'm curious where they are going with the Joseph Parks angle which is the first time in a long time I can say that about anything regarding Abyss. ODB/Young are the perfect act to be together. Ric Flair looks terrible and it is so sad to see what he's become now. He is such a parody of his old-self....By the way, TNA has done an excellent job with their theme music for their roster! Just about ever wrestler entrance fits them perfectly and is worthy of a download. I love AJ Styles new "I AM" remix

I loved the fact that Roode vs. Storm was pushed throughout the whole program. The pushed it well by asking the wrestlers throughout the night who was going to win at Lockdown between the two and put together a fantastic video package with Storm's family talking about the history between Bobby and James. Great stuff that makes you title program and world champion seem important. I also liked that Roode went around back all night being bastard with his private security. Roode and Storm are the best acts in wrestling right now! Either one of these guys would be huge stars if given a larger platform.

Once again, I was surprised how well they used Hogan as the GM. Granted he does not play the role as well as Sting, but he kept his appearance short and when he did make them it was to put over the angle at hand and not himself. This gives me some hope Impact will not become the Hogan show again like it was in 2010-2011

[Dr. Evil]

Garrett Bischoff is probably the worst wrestler on the TNA roster.

[bullets]

I'm going to say this again. What happens in the ring is storytelling. Even without a ton of promos before it or without a nice little video package a match, every match tells a story. The action in the ring conveys drama, will, determination, anger, frustration, etc.


^This.

I love it when a good storyline and match come together. Like Taker vs Triple H at Mania 28 . However what really matters is what happens in the ring. There's been some terrible storylines where the build-up was awful but thankfully the match delivered. Also there's been some good build-ups to a lame match and that does considerable damage. The match is the most crucial element for me.

Also kudos to Punk and Jericho at Wrestlemania for taking a lame "plot twist" and making it work in their match.

[Metallo]

I'm not trying to be a jerk but ugh! C'mon man with the WCW lettering!

Reminds you of these awful logos doesn't it?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQL0OE0IqQzaDRHq5BsnZyqC8uXanJ7N 3FKttCn9y_8CaoyytBPC2Xm8Tgqmghttp://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091208032606/prowrestling/images/2/2a/WCW_Logo.png
Me too :funny:



I disagree.

I see it as the promise are the storyline of the movie - the first 2 acts.

The match is the 3rd act, the climax.

If you don't invest me in the character and his struggles, then im not invested in his fight.

If the third act of a movie blows then all the other stuff before is meaningless. We've seen that time again in wrestling...well...you haven't. :whatever:

Thats why Benoit and Angle had to go out there and save us from the awfulness of Triple H vs Scott Steiner at the 2003 Royal Rumble.

[Hunter Rider]

Some interesting posts today, good read. :up:

Count me in as a pro wrestling fan, I often download matches off youtube and just watch them, old WWF, NWA, Mid South, Memphis etc...I have no idea what the angles were behind some of them and some don't have storylines, they were just matches. However if the wrestling is good the match is it's own story.

The thing is that's not to say I don't enjoy a really good angle, I certainly do and a really good angle can cover up a weak match to a degree, for instance Batista vs Triple H at Mania 21.

The bottom line for most of us is not an issue with Rock and Brock coming in, I'm personally a big fan of Brock, but if all they are going to do is take then WWE's position will be all the weaker for it, it'll be the equivelant of a crack hit.

So what is so wrong with wanting to see these guys come in and mesh in with the roster and help the guys who will carry the company on beyond their brief returns?

JR is hands down the best commentator in wrestling history. He can make any match, no matter how insignificant it may be, seem worth watching. It's a shame Vince does not see the value in having him around on a regular basis. It's too bad TNA never gave JR that management role he wanted, otherwise we'd be getting great commentary on a weekly basis. PWInsider.com reported that HHH, Taker, and HBK went to Vince and said JR had to be the one who called their match. Kudos to those 3 for going to bat for him!

I agree on JR and that last line speaks volumes on Vince, his 3 most trusted long term wrestlers, one of whom is his son-in-law and WWE heir, are telling him that JR is the man and can elevate the product by bringing something to each match, to making wrestlers seem more important via his commentary. The fans have told Vince for years they want JR back, Cole was getting booed LONG before he actually started playing a heel on TV, in fact it was that heat he had that led to him becoming a full heel announcer.

I've never been a huge HHH fan, but I thought his 99-2000 heel run was great! However, once he returned in 2002 I think we saw the limitations of HHH as both a character and wrestler. His politics were in full swing and he buried a lot of guys, and he had very FEW great matches that did not involve HBK. That's when I soured on HHH. I've always liked Taker, but I did care too much for his American Badass gimmick.


I agree on that first pre-quad tear heel run, for me he was the best in the business in that period. I think he had moments post 2002 that were good but after the second tear he really lost a lot. For me Cena vs HHH at Mania 22 should have been the end of him as a title guy anyway, he should have moved into the role HBK was playing, but his ego and stroke meant he was determined to have his spotlight longer. You can count on one hand the good non-gimmick matches Triple H has had in the last 5 years.

The reasons I mentioned above to Metallo are why I did not get tooinvested into the match. I enjoyed it, but not that much. If it wasn't for JR and HBK, I might not have liked the match at all.

I certainly agree with you on the kicking out of all the finishers stuff, to me that's school gym with a 100 fans indie ********, it's the reason I hate the Taker vs Edge HIAC that Sage mentioned.

[Metallo]

Some interesting posts today, good read. :up:

Count me in as a pro wrestling fan, I often download matches off youtube and just watch them, old WWF, NWA, Mid South, Memphis etc...I have no idea what the angles were behind some of them and some don't have storylines, they were just matches. However if the wrestling is good the match is it's own story.

The thing is that's not to say I don't enjoy a really good angle, I certainly do and a really good angle can cover up a weak match to a degree, for instance Batista vs Triple H at Mania 21.

Yes! Promos and storylines can be great things that sell the story but when you get right down to it a match IS a story when done right. Thats the beauty of it. They tell a story without saying a word. Some people don't get that though. Very interesting that a ring is covered in canvas. The best pro wrestlers are like artists.

If you have a ring and two wrestlers you can ALWAYS have a pro wrestling match (and thats wrestling) but you don't always have a camera or backstage segments or promos. The talking is the hook but the match is the payoff. They work with each other and need each other but in the end the talking serves the matches not the other way around.

[Superark]

Reminds you of these awful logos doesn't it?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQL0OE0IqQzaDRHq5BsnZyqC8uXanJ7N 3FKttCn9y_8CaoyytBPC2Xm8Tgqmg
Me too :funny:



.

UGH Yes! Hate!

Some interesting posts today, good read. :up:

Count me in as a pro wrestling fan, I often download matches off youtube and just watch them, old WWF, NWA, Mid South, Memphis etc...I have no idea what the angles were behind some of them and some don't have storylines, they were just matches. However if the wrestling is good the match is it's own story.

.

:up: :up:


By the way, ShopTNA.com is running a HUGE sale on a bunch of their merchandise. I'm not big on wrestling t-shirts, but I am a huge Sting mark so I always get a Sting t-shirt when I can. I just bought a new Sting shirt for $10. But TNA has actually number of good decent looking shirts by wrestling standards.

Given the recent comments in this thread and debates with Nell, I think these shirts are appropriate...

https://tnaimages.com/c/IMP-WCEWHITEOUT/s.jpg https://tnaimages.com/c/IMP-NOSEASON/ss.jpg

[AntMan]

Hunter and Metallo, those posts are 100% win.

[Project862006]

ok so what I'm trying to say cuz you missed it is...Wrestling isn't just character and drama....its an Art.

With the drama and Story you need Great in ring wrestling....Promos can tell a part of the story...when they are in that ring they tell the entire story...its almost Majestic....its not just "choreographed Fighting" its Art.
i totally agree you see for me personally i view pro wrestling like a movie

the trailers,tv spots,viral marketing,posters,etc. are comparable to a build up, wrestling promos,interviews,face to face interactions and hype to a match

but if the end result movie/wrestling match is complete crap

i feel like i wasted my time and money

whats the point of trailers/wrestling promos if the end result aka The Wrestling Match is underwhelming

for instance movies like X3 and SM3 had great trailers and tv spots and built up tons of hype but both movies were crap

should i just be happy with the movies because the promos and build ups were great?

[NDX]

Wow, these posts the last several months remind me of when LastSunrise used to get everyone riled up.

[Hunter Rider]

Yes! Promos and storylines can be great things that sell the story but when you get right down to it a match IS a story when done right. Thats the beauty of it. They tell a story without saying a word. Some people don't get that though. Very interesting that a ring is covered in canvas. The best pro wrestlers are like artists.

If you have a ring and two wrestlers you can ALWAYS have a pro wrestling match (and thats wrestling) but you don't always have a camera or backstage segments or promos. The talking is the hook but the match is the payoff. They work with each other and need each other but in the end the talking serves the matches not the other way around.

The canvas and art analogy is spot on and the match much like the belts are a case of the wrestler/wrestling making them important, the angles are part of it for sure but without the match it's meaningless in 90% of cases.

UGH Yes! Hate!
:up: :up:

:up: :yay:


By the way, ShopTNA.com is running a HUGE sale on a bunch of their merchandise. I'm not big on wrestling t-shirts, but I am a huge Sting mark so I always get a Sting t-shirt when I can. I just bought a new Sting shirt for $10. But TNA has actually number of good decent looking shirts by wrestling standards.

Given the recent comments in this thread and debates with Nell, I think these shirts are appropriate...

https://tnaimages.com/c/IMP-WCEWHITEOUT/s.jpg https://tnaimages.com/c/IMP-NOSEASON/ss.jpgOn a side note I'm glad TNA seem to be steering him away from the whole thing with him basking in the injury to Jesse Sorenesen.

Hunter and Metallo, those posts are 100% win.

:up: Quick question, I know you watch a lot of different stuff but have you seen the Jake Roberts vs Rick Rude match on his DVD?

Wow, these posts the last several months remind me of when LastSunrise used to get everyone riled up.

True and what's interesting is they are polar opposites, LastSunrise wanted to book WWE like an indie, Nell wants to book it like an episode of Glee.

[louiebling$]

The canvas and art analogy is spot on and the match much like the belts are a case of the wrestler/wrestling making them important, the angles are part of it for sure but without the match it's meaningless in 90% of cases.



:up: :yay:




On a side note I'm glad TNA seem to be steering him away from the whole thing with him basking in the injury to Jesse Sorenesen.



:up: Quick question, I know you watch a lot of different stuff but have you seen the Jake Roberts vs Rick Rude match on his DVD?



True and what's interesting is they are polar opposites, LastSunrise wanted to book WWE like an indie, Nell wants to book it like an episode of Glee.
:lmao:

[DeLaHaystack]

lol when was this

http://i.imgur.com/UTBop.jpg


hahah :yay:

[DeLaHaystack]

wrestlemania was the most fun ive had in 5 years. im gonna start going to indy shows and raw whenever they come here

Indy shows are always the best...when the wrestling and production is decent LOL

[DeLaHaystack]

It seems like WWE is high on the talent in FCW. Ambrose obviously has the tools to be huge, as does Claudio Castagnoli(Don't remeber his FCW name off the top of my head). I'm expecting a huge influx of new talent over this summer. Kassius Ohno, Seth Rollins, the recently signed Brodie Lee, and Damien Sandow. I expect to see all these guys on WWE TV by summer. It's clear they believe in their FCW talent. It will be glorious!

I'm pulling for Garrett Dylan

[vantheman77]

Ok so I just watched all of IMPACT tonight, courtesy of Youtube and fan upload of the show.

It was actually a very solid show and I was pleasantly surprised at the minimal use of Hogan. He was peppered here in there, but every segment with him served a purpose and never felt like Hogan overload.

-The opening segment was ok. Once you got past the Hogan entrance and the typical rehearsed Hogan promo, and just the utter stupidity of the idea Hogan is the GM after trying to take over TNA last year from Dixie, the segment actually filled out nicely. They set the tone of the night and Lockdown with this by having Hogan layout the matches for Impact and Lockdown. Solid segment.

-Angle vs. Hardy was a hell of a tv match! These guys busted their butts and gave us a nice taste of what to expect at Lockdown. It's good to see this feud taken a little bit more seriously heading into Lockdown than how it was booked towards Victory Road. Angle takes the count out to weasel out of getting pinned which sets up Hogan making the match at Lockdown with Hardy. Very good start to Impact. I am expecting these two to steal the show at Lockdown. That match should be off the charts!

-Bully Ray is so fantastic as a heel! His Calfzilla line was hilarious! Ray is great at getting heat and he makes everyone who is in a program with him an instant face. After ripping into Aries for a bit, Aries comes out. Just when it seems Austin is going to talk, he attacks Ray with a fire, which the crowd loved. Bully then hits the best powerbomb I have seen in years and layout Aries. This should lead up to a match between the two at Lockdown. I suspect Ray will go over at the PPV to set up a title program with Storm, but Ray is a pro and no doubt Aries will come out looking strong in defeat. I can only imagine the heat that match will draw from the Nashville crowd.

-The Knockouts proved once again that they blow the WWE Divas out of the water, both in terms of wrestling and personality. Six-Way match was a lot of fun! I'm not crazy about Velvet getting the title shot, but she's over so it should make the crowd happy.

-The trend of good wrestling on Impact for night continued with Storm vs. Styles. It was a good match with AJ taking a hell of a superkick! He sold that kick tremendously! Common sense would say that Storm wouldn't wrestle such a tough opponent so close to his title match, but I liked how they tried to play it up as Storm wanting to stay tuned up for Roode figuring if he can get past AJ, he knows Roode will be no problem. They played this as competitive sportsmanship. Good stuff.

-MCMG are back! Hopefully this re-energizes the tag-division once again. They booked this perfectly with MCMG pretty much dominating MA and looking strong and then calling out the champs. Sabin hasn't missed a step and I'm really looking forward to a series of matches between Joe/Magnus and MCMG.

-UGH I hate the Hogan/Bischoff crap! Get it off my tv! No one cares about Garrett either.

-The Main Event was ok. Anderson is tired as an act. I think they should have had Roode go over clean here, but TNA seems bound and determined to have Roode be the bastard who cheats. At least Roode is awesome at it! Storm comes out with Hogan and Roode runs aways while cursing at them. It was an ok ending that served it purpose at continuing the Roode heat.

-Random thoughts: Say what you want about Eric Bischoff being employed by TNA, but one thing you cannot deny is the production value he's added to the company. It's such a better looking television product in every way you can imagine. It's a shame the show is held on a soundstage. I'm curious where they are going with the Joseph Parks angle which is the first time in a long time I can say that about anything regarding Abyss. ODB/Young are the perfect act to be together. Ric Flair looks terrible and it is so sad to see what he's become now. He is such a parody of his old-self....By the way, TNA has done an excellent job with their theme music for their roster! Just about ever wrestler entrance fits them perfectly and is worthy of a download. I love AJ Styles new "I AM" remix

I loved the fact that Roode vs. Storm was pushed throughout the whole program. The pushed it well by asking the wrestlers throughout the night who was going to win at Lockdown between the two and put together a fantastic video package with Storm's family talking about the history between Bobby and James. Great stuff that makes you title program and world champion seem important. I also liked that Roode went around back all night being bastard with his private security. Roode and Storm are the best acts in wrestling right now! Either one of these guys would be huge stars if given a larger platform.

Once again, I was surprised how well they used Hogan as the GM. Granted he does not play the role as well as Sting, but he kept his appearance short and when he did make them it was to put over the angle at hand and not himself. This gives me some hope Impact will not become the Hogan show again like it was in 2010-2011

This week's Impact was good and TNA had to step it up after WWE has WrestleMania 28 and the Raw afterwards with Brock Lesnar. What they did was establish Hulk Hogan as the new GM, but he puts over the TNA talent instead of himself like he did in 2010-11. The rating for this week's Impact got a little higher after the March Madness stuff.

[AntMan]

Quick question, I know you watch a lot of different stuff but have you seen the Jake Roberts vs Rick Rude match on his DVD? No, but I'm getting Pick Your Poison ASAP because I just found out it's $6. 67 on Amazon.

[NDX]

No, but I'm getting Pick Your Poison ASAP because I just found out it's $6. 67 on Amazon.
A great pick up. Buy it, buy it now!

Indy shows are always the best...when the wrestling and production is decent LOL
Hell, the show and the wrestling could look like **** and you can still have a great time with the right friend. Like watching a bad movie, but the actors can hear your insults!

[DeLaHaystack]

You and everyone else here are"fans"and so there's just no need to care about business so much that it'll ruin it for you!
!

I agree.

Me being involved in "the business" on the indy circuit at least, I don't look at wrestling the same as before as just a "fan." Once I started getting involved behind the scenes and whatnot it just wasn't the same anymore. It's difficult for me to watch a match and not critique it and think about the business aspect of it, so it best to be an entertaining match for me to put that aside LOL

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

"Book it like an episode of Glee"??

Really??

:facepalm:

I shouldn't even dignify that with a response - I said I wouldn't reply to either Hunter or Metallo anymore, although it's become perfectly clear how obsessed they are with me, unable to stop talking about me even though I haven't addressed them the past few days. Over the lifespan of this thread, between the 2 of them, I have been called a *****, my opinion has been called retarded, I've been called a hypocrite, and my words have been twisted inaccurately so they can discredit my opinion and try to make me look bad, and now Hunter continues to twist my words, make assumptions off of those twisted words, and put down my opinion.

Book it like an episode of Glee?

No, more like book it in a way that is fun and entertaining. Book it in a way that's not obsessed with "giving the rub" to someone, but instead booked in a way where guys get over by giving us fun and exciting matches and feuds, just like it used to be done in the old days.

Not that I should dignify Hunter with a response, but I'll tell you exactly how I would book WWE if I was put in charge today.

The first thing I would do is merge the two brands together and stop spreading the talent so thin, and merge the 2 world titles together with one top title. Two world titles devalues the belt, the World Heavyweight Championship is the worst victim of the two when guys get hot shotted to that belt for accomplishing absolutely nothing previously. As far as I'm concerned, Edge is the only really legitimate World Heavyweight Champion of the past few years - when guys like Swagger, Daniel Bryan, or Mark Henry are bouncing the title around. Having two titles means that guys who wouldn't get a world title otherwise - I.E. not the best in the business - are getting a world title. That's what devalues the title, not an 18 second squash match.

Secondly, having some of that "pushed above what they've earned" talent trickle out of the world title scene will put them into the mid card belt scene, giving us better talent to feud for belts like the Intercontinental Title and the United States Championship - better talent feuding for these belts will raise the prestige of these mid card belts, and make them worth more when we're getting much more entertaining feuds and matches. The United States Championship was at it's best when The Miz had it, and later when Dolph Ziggler had it. These are two guys who either have already been in the main event, or fans are clamoring to see in the main event, but I think they could spend some time in the upper mid card to really bring up the value of these mid card belts right now. People on here always complain about the mid card belts not being given enough prestige, but then want any semi-legitimate talent to completely bypass the midcard belts altogether and go straight for world titles. The Intercontinental / United States Championship scenes would be absolutely incredible right now with an upper mid card scene consisting of The Miz, Dolph Ziggler, Mark Henry, Daniel Bryan, Christian, Cody Rhodes, Zack Ryder, Jack Swagger, R-Truth, and Kofi Kingston headlining those divisions. The quality of this division would accomplish 2 things - both raising the prestige of the respective belts, as well as give these guys a real forum (not just an out of nowhere Money In The Bank win) to get themselves over, and take themselves to the next level of main eventing. Guys like Ziggler, Rhodes, and Bryan who I haven't been a big fan of in the past (although I am liking Rhodes and Ziggler right now, particularly Ziggler) would absolutely get their shot in the main event, once they did their time in the mid card. In fact that's why I'm getting so over with Ziggler right now, because he's actually doing something legitimate and entertaining in the mid card, he's pretty much the upper mid card stand out right now, and showing he is ahead of the rest of that pack, and should start getting some test main event feuds. Bryan's current gimmick, I would absolutely adore as an Intercontinental Title reign - as a world title reign, not so much.

For all the people complaining about how The Rock, or Brock Lesnar, are coming back to take up spots away from the young guys (although, hypocritically enough, are constantly clamoring for Steve Austin to come back to feud with CM Punk...), maybe we wouldn't need to bring those guys back all the time if the main event wasn't spread so thin. With 2 world title belts, the main event scene is spread thin also, leaving less opponents for the top dogs to fight, and as such, leaving less options for something new and big for big events like Wrestlemania. I mean, why have John Cena and CM Punk headline Wrestlemania when you already have these guys headlining Money In The Bank? Wrestlemania needs something new - a main event that's not spread so thin will give more options, because there are more guys fighting for less prizes. But right now, who else from Raw would John Cena feud with? Combine the rosters, however, and now you double the choices.

See, for everyone calling me a "hypocrite" because I don't see it the same way you do, there's just as much hypocrisy coming from you all as well. You all talk about the WWE needing to build new stars - but then absolutely **** on any new star they try to make. The Miz gets constantly **** on in here, Alberto Del Rio gets constantly **** on in here, Brodus Clay gets a moment at Wrestlemania to continue to get himself over, and he gets **** on in here, but when it's your guys, you want them thrust into the spotlight - when it's Daniel Bryan, or Dolph Ziggler, or Cody Rhodes, or Zack Ryder, you want them thrust into the spotlight. As far as I'm concerned, Dolph Ziggler is being built up the right way - spending his time in the upper mid card, absolutely stealing the show in that position and getting his character completely over. Sheamus was rebuilt the proper way after his 2nd title reign, and now he's being **** on because he went over the internet darling. Daniel Bryan was thrust into the main event without any proper mid card work, and people wonder why I have a hard time accepting him as a main eventer, even if he has stepped his game up. Zack Ryder got over with some internet videos, but hasn't really done much of anything significant with his time on TV. And Cody Rhodes... Cody Rhodes is in the Dolph Ziggler ballpark of absolutely stepping it up in the upper mid card and showcasing that he's about the best of the best in the division. But people are so quick to rip guys like him and Ziggler out of the midcard, where they are actually benefiting the show right now by bringing prestige to those divisions, by ripping away the only thing both shows' midcards have going for them to toss them into the main event. You want to actually build the midcard? Well... why don't we actually let the people who are making the midcard relevant stay there and continue to build a division that is in desperate need of rebuilding?

Not everyone is a main eventer, and not everyone needs to be pushed to the main event just because they have a level of talent. Sometimes, even extremely talented guys can be best served elevating the mid card by having exciting feuds and matches for those belts as well. And that's essentially the problem now is that WWE treats every guy as a main eventer by hot shotting them a world title with Money In The Bank, instead of letting guys actually elevate themselves in the mid card, as well as elevating those mid card titles in the process.

Booking would be about guys putting on exciting feuds and matches to get themselves over, and when they succeed, they would be rewarded with the big wins to "give them the rub", not the other way around of giving them big wins to "get them over".

I'll sit back and wait for the standard replies of how I don't appreciate the business, or don't understand a damn thing about it, because "oh noez! he thinks teh different!!". It's what this thread is best at.

[NDX]

I agree.

Me being involved in "the business" on the indy circuit at least, I don't look at wrestling the same as before as just a "fan." Once I started getting involved behind the scenes and whatnot it just wasn't the same anymore. It's difficult for me to watch a match and not critique it and think about the business aspect of it, so it best to be an entertaining match for me to put that aside LOL
Well, now I gotta ask, who are you and where have you wrestled for?

[louiebling$]

"Book it like an episode of Glee"??

Really??

:facepalm:

I shouldn't even dignify that with a response - I said I wouldn't reply to either Hunter or Metallo anymore, although it's become perfectly clear how obsessed they are with me, unable to stop talking about me even though I haven't addressed them the past few days. Over the lifespan of this thread, between the 2 of them, I have been called a *****, my opinion has been called retarded, I've been called a hypocrite, and my words have been twisted inaccurately so they can discredit my opinion and try to make me look bad, and now Hunter continues to twist my words, make assumptions off of those twisted words, and put down my opinion.

Book it like an episode of Glee?

No, more like book it in a way that is fun and entertaining. Book it in a way that's not obsessed with "giving the rub" to someone, but instead booked in a way where guys get over by giving us fun and exciting matches and feuds, just like it used to be done in the old days.

Booking would be about guys putting on exciting feuds and matches to get themselves over, and when they succeed, they would be rewarded with the big wins to "give them the rub", not the other way around of giving them big wins to "get them over"

You mean Like The AWA/NWA/WWWF Days? Or Territory Days?

Your sadly mistaken if you think it wasn't like that back then? Back then it was even worse....there was no World Wide televised TV tapings...there was no Promos(Trailers) to sell the Fued...it was Dog Eat Dog...go out there and work the crowd...sell the Story IN THE MATCH and not all Promo.

Politics and Backstage stuff was very much alive and well back then...it just wasn't known to the world like it is now...They gave Rubs,they put people over,they Passed the Torch, all that.....Yea it was fun but all that was alive and kicking then....that's is the wrestling Business....that is pro wrestling...hell back then....That's how they sold all their fueds......In the Ring...some matches weren't televised and were only available via a radio show and the play by play and In RING WRESTLING sold the story...just how it is now and that's what wrestling is.

[AntMan]

Who in the hell is ****ting on Sheamus in this thread? I've seen Van talk about people on other forums and that's it. Brodus hasn't got that much flack either.

[louiebling$]

Who in the hell is ****ting on Sheamus in this thread? I've seen Van talk about people on other forums and that's it. Brodus hasn't got that much flack either.

No one in the thread has bashed Shemus if anything we have pity for him because WWE screwed him once again at Mania 2 years in a row....And Brodus got a little Flack Intially when he first debuted because we were all in shock of how much of a departure his character took...we all expected a monster heel and got something different...but it turned out GREAT...and recently the flack he got was because of that Weird Mama dancing Segment at Mania which was pretty much well known it was WWE Creative and not him....so I don't know where that's coming from :huh:

[nite-owl]

http://h11.abload.de/img/laylar4jc9.gif

[NDX]

http://h11.abload.de/img/laylar4jc9.gif

This should be posted every page of every thread for the rest of the existence of the wrestling thread.

[spidey-dude]

This right here proves....you ARE NOT a Wrestling Fan....I've chose to not chime on several Debates between you and HR but now I'm chiming in....with that statement that tells me you are not a wrestling fan... your a fan of Drama...meaning story and character but fro what you said right there is saying these guys aren't really fighting if I want to see some real athletes id watch Boxing or MMA.....I am a Pro Wrestling Fan....everyone else in this thread is a Pro Wrestling Fan and that's why you but heads with so many people because your not on the same level as us.

The rest of us could be given an Iron Man Match Between Daniel Bryan and Punk with No story or build up whatsoever and we would mark out and dedicate probably 5 pages alone to discussing that match....that's because we are Pro Wrestling Fans.

sorry to chime in aswell but you don't speak for everyone, I (as well as one of my good friends IRL) watch wrestling for the story and drama, we are still wrestling fans as the drama/ story is an integral part of pro wrestling

dont get me wrong i can enjoy a really good randommatch - I do youtube old matches from time to time, in fact wrestlers like Benoit and The Hardyz won me over back in the day for their in ring ability - but the ones that always stick in my head are the ones with the great stories being told... Survivor Series 98 is still one of my fav ppvs because of the story that unfolded throughout

[Keyser Soze]

For those who missed it, the Daniel Bryan/AJ segment from Smackdown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b9XMT9l4dQ

I have to say, as disastrous as the 18 second squash was, Daniel Bryan's response to it here was some of the best promo work he's ever done. I think it's pretty great that, for as long as Daniel Bryan has been known as an amazing wrestler who isn't that hot on the mic, he's evolved into a character who doesn't even need to wrestle on a given week, who they can send out to talk for a few minutes and have it be the segment of the night. I know Bryan has faced the Benoit comparisons coming in thick and fast, but I think as his heel character evolves, Kurt Angle could be a better comparison.

It's almost a shame now that backlash against WWE's poor booking of him at Mania has resulted in the massive cheers in his favour, because he did some really great heel work here that would get anyone else thoroughly booed (and he did manage to turn a portion of the crowd here). I just hope some fans' continued cheering for him doesn't get twisted by WWE into an inability to get heat as a top heel.

I can see WWE going the route of having Sheamus be AJ's knight in shining armour, and from there WWE could very well do the ol' switcheroo and have AJ screw over Sheamus to help Bryan get his title back and THAT WAS THEIR PLAN ALL ALONG. Though I don't think AJ as heel would work as well - it's the subtly abusive relationship between the two that gives Bryan plenty of heel meat to chew on (unfortunate analogy for a vegan, I know).

All I'll say is, despite no longer being World Champion, despite being squashed in 18 seconds, Daniel Bryan remains the most compelling character on Smackdown, and is still getting decent TV time. That to me suggests that either WWE's plan to bury him was unsuccessful, or that there was no plan to bury him, and WWE were confident enough in his ability that they didn't think such a squash would hurt him in the long term.

[Hunter Rider]

No, but I'm getting Pick Your Poison ASAP because I just found out it's $6. 67 on Amazon.

Great price for that, let me know what you think of that match. :up:

Who in the hell is ****ting on Sheamus in this thread? I've seen Van talk about people on other forums and that's it. Brodus hasn't got that much flack either.

I didn't read the multi-paragraph tantrum but I think Van hismelf will point out no one here has given Sheamus any grief and most of us find the Funkasaurus fun, didn't you have a Funkasaurus avvy for a bit?

sorry to chime in aswell but you don't speak for everyone, I (as well as one of my good friends IRL) watch wrestling for the story and drama, we are still wrestling fans as the drama/ story is an integral part of pro wrestling

dont get me wrong i can enjoy a really good randommatch - I do youtube old matches from time to time, in fact wrestlers like Benoit and The Hardyz won me over back in the day for their in ring ability - but the ones that always stick in my head are the ones with the great stories being told... Survivor Series 98 is still one of my fav ppvs because of the story that unfolded throughout

Here's the thing though spidey, do you sit there and if the match is garbage think "Oh! it's ok because that promo three weeks ago was really good"? I'd imagine not.

[Metallo]

No, but I'm getting Pick Your Poison ASAP because I just found out it's $6. 67 on Amazon.

Its worth that and more. Not sure how straight up Jake is being throughout but it has some great Roberts promos and matches and the documentary is fascinating.


You mean Like The AWA/NWA/WWWF Days? Or Territory Days?

Your sadly mistaken if you think it wasn't like that back then? Back then it was even worse....there was no World Wide televised TV tapings...there was no Promos(Trailers) to sell the Fued...it was Dog Eat Dog...go out there and work the crowd...sell the Story IN THE MATCH and not all Promo.

Politics and Backstage stuff was very much alive and well back then...it just wasn't known to the world like it is now...They gave Rubs,they put people over,they Passed the Torch, all that.....Yea it was fun but all that was alive and kicking then....that's is the wrestling Business....that is pro wrestling...hell back then....That's how they sold all their fueds......In the Ring...some matches weren't televised and were only available via a radio show and the play by play and In RING WRESTLING sold the story...just how it is now and that's what wrestling is.

I watched Dusty Rhodes vs Superstar Graham match from 1977 and that experience was a great example of what you are talking about.

I wasn't even born in 1977 so I didn't watch all the angles and promos leading up to it. Only watched a couple of great promos from Big Dust and The Superstar before the particular match. Dusty was no great athlete and Graham was almost all about his body and his talking. He was no great mat worker. But they told a BRILLIANT story in the ring. I could follow the entire story through every little move. Every emotion. Every bit of drama. It all came through. Thats the heart of pro wrestling. When you can do that to someone who was basically dropped right in the middle of viewing this feud thats when you see the art of what these guys do.

Graham was underrated as a worker and a storyteller if you ask me...but anyway...

There weren't always as many promos and there were certainly no skits in the golden age of tv but can anyone say there wasn't some great wrestling entertainment back then? You need the stories to get invested in the characters but without the matches whats the point in even watching? Nell says if he wants athletics he'll watch MMA or boxing. Well if someone wanted JUST soap opera why not watch a real one like Days of Our Lives instead of just wrestling stories while not caring about the matches? Saturday Night Live has produced FAR funnier skits than Vince McMahon ever has. So has Mel Brooks. So have Jim Abrahams and the Zucker Bros.

You've got to have both the sports aspect and the entertainment aspect. The matches and the angles. But when people pay to see wrestling they are usually paying to see the matches more than anything. Did most people REALLY buy Wrestlemania primarily for the talking? The angles are used to sell the wrestling and get people invested in the characters.


For those who missed it, the Daniel Bryan/AJ segment from Smackdown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b9XMT9l4dQ

I have to say, as disastrous as the 18 second squash was, Daniel Bryan's response to it here was some of the best promo work he's ever done. I think it's pretty great that, for as long as Daniel Bryan has been known as an amazing wrestler who isn't that hot on the mic, he's evolved into a character who doesn't even need to wrestle on a given week, who they can send out to talk for a few minutes and have it be the segment of the night. I know Bryan has faced the Benoit comparisons coming in thick and fast, but I think as his heel character evolves, Kurt Angle could be a better comparison.

It's almost a shame now that backlash against WWE's poor booking of him at Mania has resulted in the massive cheers in his favour, because he did some really great heel work here that would get anyone else thoroughly booed (and he did manage to turn a portion of the crowd here). I just hope some fans' continued cheering for him doesn't get twisted by WWE into an inability to get heat as a top heel.

I can see WWE going the route of having Sheamus be AJ's knight in shining armour, and from there WWE could very well do the ol' switcheroo and have AJ screw over Sheamus to help Bryan get his title back and THAT WAS THEIR PLAN ALL ALONG. Though I don't think AJ as heel would work as well - it's the subtly abusive relationship between the two that gives Bryan plenty of heel meat to chew on (unfortunate analogy for a vegan, I know).

All I'll say is, despite no longer being World Champion, despite being squashed in 18 seconds, Daniel Bryan remains the most compelling character on Smackdown, and is still getting decent TV time. That to me suggests that either WWE's plan to bury him was unsuccessful, or that there was no plan to bury him, and WWE were confident enough in his ability that they didn't think such a squash would hurt him in the long term.

Ditto. WWE is so desperate to capitalize on certain things that sometimes they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Bryan has been doing some brilliant work as a heel. They should stay the course and instead of switching him babyface just continue to push him strongly.

[spidey-dude]

Here's the thing though spidey, do you sit there and if the match is garbage think "Oh! it's ok because that promo three weeks ago was really good"? I'd imagine not.

no, I won't like the match, but I can still like the buildup, and often the iplications of who wins the match is still important to the story, I will just feel let down by the match, same way I would feel let down if there were a load of ****** promos followed up by a great match, in both instances I would say they dropped the ball and we could have had something better

but tbh I only watch matches if they sound like they were good - same way I only watch the promos if they sound good, otherwise I read what happened so I know how a story is progressing, Ive said before Im a pretty casual fan (although that was disputed)