For the Lead Up Films: How to Differentiate From "The Avengers Stretegy".

[Blackman]

I don't want this thread to turn into one of the Separate Universe vs Lead Up films threads.
I just wanna ask: If WB/DC were to have films lead up to the Justice League, how would you make the strategy less like the one Marvel used?

1. Little to no stingers/post credit scenes. I'm just tired of seeing these. If there gonna do it, do mid credit scenes. But either way, connecting the films by having people wait until the end of the credits is stupid imo

2. No cheap cameos by other heroes. Like Hawkeye in Thor. I dont think that's really needed and really, however brief it is, will take something away from the solo heroes story.

3. Don't reuse a villain in JL that was already seen in the solo films.


What are your opinions about differing the strategies.

[Rockstar]

The biggest diffrenciation of all: keep it grounded and real-world.

Use the perspective lense of "what if this was happening in our real world" as opposed to embracing comicbook fantasy.

Superherohype agrees:

http://www.superherohype.com/features/articles/171477-9-ways-dc-entertainment-can-catch-up-to-marvel-studios?start=3


This is WB/DC's biggest trump card. Especially with Nolan as a creative consultant.

[The Boy Scout]

The biggest diffrenciation of all: keep it grounded and real-world.

Use the perspective lense of "what if this was happening in our real world" as opposed to embracing comicbook fantasy.

I think that's exactly what they'll do.

[gkokujin]

The biggest diffrenciation of all: keep it grounded and real-world.

Use the perspective lense of "what if this was happening in our real world" as opposed to embracing comicbook fantasy.


but nothing about DC happens in the "real world".

you have Metropolis, Gotham, Star City, Central City, none of which are real or connect you to any actual sense of danger FOR those in that city.

[RachelDawes]

but nothing about DC happens in the "real world".

you have Metropolis, Gotham, Star City, Central City, none of which are real

So just treat them as if they were real places.

or connect you to any actual sense of danger FOR those in that city.

What does this mean?

[shauner111]

It's the tone that's going to make it different, sure, i agree. But there's more ways than one.

How the characters interact with each other. It's very easy to have a Nick Fury of the group who happens to be african-american, the female bad-ass, the comic relief, the wildcard, the serious good leader, etc. Plus having that same interaction between them that the Avengers had.

It's too easy at this point to copy the formula. So they need to change it. How? maybe a not so obvious lineup. It's way too simple to write Martian Manhunter as the Fury, Hal Jordan as the Tony Stark who fights with Aquaman or Batman just like Starks verbal banter with Cap. Some of these things have to stick but not every single one.

JLA are the originals and it's annoying that they have to change these things or else the general audience will think it's just a rip-off of Avengers. That's a bit irritating. A lot of that banter would have worked if this movie was made beforehand. But now WB needs to do everything in their writing power to change it up.

Though it's a blessing in disguise cuz it forces them to think outside the box and be creative. A darker, more mature team-up would be a pretty interesting twist on what fans saw with Avengers.

[Blackman]

I made this thread more to talk about the actual business strategy of making JL with a lead up universe. Like how would you do the lead ins differently.

Because I think it's easy how to make JL different in terms of tone and all that but with the business strategy it could be harder

[shauner111]

That parts just as easy. Man Of Steel kicks it off, Flash & Wonder Woman movies, Batman reboot, JLA. Green Lantern brought in or recast for the team up, Aquaman doesnt necessarily have to be given a solo film until the movies complete. Same with a GL sequel.

It's the same as Avengers but that's not something that has to be different. If they want it to be different they can also go right for the JLA, straight away...with only Man Of Steel before it.

[Duran Man]

Man of Steel, followed by Wonder Woman, Flash, and then Green Lantern (John Stewart) as lead the lead up to the JL. JL would introduce the new Batman (no need for a movie beforehand since everyone should know the gist of his background by now).

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

How do you top heroes teaming up? Easy; villains team up. That's right, THE LEGION OF DOOM! Luthor, Sinestro, Captain Cold, The Joker, Cheetah, Grodd!

[TheWatcher]

^ Maybe they should do the Justice story just a little toned down as far as the amount of characters go.

[JerseyJoker]

I don't want this thread to turn into one of the Separate Universe vs Lead Up films threads.
I just wanna ask: If WB/DC were to have films lead up to the Justice League, how would you make the strategy less like the one Marvel used?

1. Little to no stingers/post credit scenes. I'm just tired of seeing these. If there gonna do it, do mid credit scenes. But either way, connecting the films by having people wait until the end of the credits is stupid imo

2. No cheap cameos by other heroes. Like Hawkeye in Thor. I dont think that's really needed and really, however brief it is, will take something away from the solo heroes story.

3. Don't reuse a villain in JL that was already seen in the solo films.


What are your opinions about differing the strategies.

How did Hawkeyes cameo take away from Thor's story?

[Blackman]

I didnt say Hawkeye took away from Thor's story. I said an example of a "cheap cameo" was Hawkeye in Thor and then said dont make a cameo that will take away from the story. I didnt use Hawkeye as an example of that

[DarKush]

For me, I think one of the best ways to differentiate a Justice League film from the Avengers is just to drop the movie and then springboard individual franchises off of it. Perhaps the movie can tell the story of how the team came together, but individual movies can do character origin stories (if necessary) after the fact.

Justice League might be the perfect way to finally get Flash, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman films. And another Green Lantern and maybe even Martian Manhunter. And fingers would be crossed to see if we could get a Black Lightning or Vixen film out of the deal too. A JL film might be a good set up for Blue Beetle and a host of other DC characters that could be in their own movies or TV shows.

As for minor or 'cheap' character cameos in films like Man of Steel, I'm not opposed to them at all. I did like Amanda Waller showing up in Green Lantern and was hoping she would be like a Sam L. Jackson Nick Fury for the DCU that would show up in other films. Heck I even liked the mention of Metropolis in Batman Forever back in the day.

[Blackman]

For me, I think one of the best ways to differentiate a Justice League film from the Avengers is just to drop the movie and then springboard individual franchises off of it. Perhaps the movie can tell the story of how the team came together, but individual movies can do character origin stories (if necessary) after the fact.

Justice League might be the perfect way to finally get Flash, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman films. And another Green Lantern and maybe even Martian Manhunter. And fingers would be crossed to see if we could get a Black Lightning or Vixen film out of the deal too. A JL film might be a good set up for Blue Beetle and a host of other DC characters that could be in their own movies or TV shows.

As for minor or 'cheap' character cameos in films like Man of Steel, I'm not opposed to them at all. I did like Amanda Waller showing up in Green Lantern and was hoping she would be like a Sam L. Jackson Nick Fury for the DCU that would show up in other films. Heck I even liked the mention of Metropolis in Batman Forever back in the day.

I don't want this thread to turn into one of the Separate Universe vs Lead Up films threads.
I just wanna ask: If WB/DC were to have films lead up to the Justice League, how would you make the strategy less like the one Marvel used?

The thread is about the lead up films and how to differentiate them

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Yep, all Hawkeye does is pose like a toy and break the number one rule of an action film, a setup with no payoff.

[shauner111]

Hawkeyes cameo didn't screw with the story but it was a cheap move. It was painfully obvious after that scene that Hawkeye was thrown into it because they couldn't think of a better way to show him before Avengers kicked off.

We don't need that crap with Justice League. I don't care if it's one of the lesser characters, i dont want Aquaman in a 5-10 second cameo in a Flash movie just because the studio doesn't have the confidence to do a solo Aquaman movie before the team-up.

That's another way to seperate from how Marvel Studios do things. Sticking Black Widow in an Iron Man movie is just a way to have a hot chick in ur movie doing flips so you can A) Bring horny dudes to ur movie & B) Introduce the character without committing to an entire flick centered around Scarlett.

Please DC/WB. Do NOT give the people a solo movie for these characters beforehand UNLESS you have a plan on focusing on them and them only. Iron Man 2 was a bag of **** compared to the first because it was a cheap way to make money off the first one while hyping up the Avengers. They could have easily had that one Iron Man movie to kick-start it, while pumping out ur Hulk, Thor, Cap solos.

[Neo_3]

I didnt say Hawkeye took away from Thor's story. I said an example of a "cheap cameo" was Hawkeye in Thor and then said dont make a cameo that will take away from the story. I didnt use Hawkeye as an example of thatWould you have rather had a Hawkeye solo movie?

[shauner111]

The only saving grace to the Hawkeye cameo WAS the fact that they didnt bore us with a solo movie. But i still dont like the stupid idea.

The Nick Fury post-credits (from Iron Man, Cap & Thor) were executed well. The one attached at the end of Incredible Hulk was pointless and the "Thor tease" for IM 2 was random. Not every movie needed one. It worked with Fury but it's not necessary for JLA.

[Blackman]

No I don't think Hawkeye needed a solo movie. I dont think he was needed at all in the build up films (in fact I think Hawkeye was the worst handled character in the MCU). Neither was Black Widow. However, if they REALLY wanted to have Hawkeye before Avengers. They shouldve upped his role to at least Coulson level of screentime in Thor

AS Blitzreig bop kinda said, all Hawkeye really did was pose and spout of one liners. and then he was gone. For anyone who didnt know who Hawkeye was, I'd imagine that the Thor cameo was just kinda a weird scene.

And that's what I dont wanna see in DC lead up films, no character cameos just to wink at the audience. For example, I don't want during A Flash movie when there's a new report have it intercut with Green Arrow/Oliver Queen watching the news and saying jokes just for the sake of nudging to the audience, this guy's going to be in the JL movie. It's cheap imo

[Blackman]

The only saving grace to the Hawkeye cameo WAS the fact that they didnt bore us with a solo movie. But i still dont like the stupid idea.

The Nick Fury post-credits (from Iron Man, Cap & Thor) were executed well. The one attached at the end of Incredible Hulk was pointless and the "Thor tease" for IM 2 was random. Not every movie needed one. It worked with Fury but it's not necessary for JLA.

The only post credit I really liked was Iron Man's. That was a well done one and then I liked Cap's but I mean c'mon it was a teaser for the Avengers.
Post credit scenes have kinda gotten outta control. I hope WB doesnt follow this route

[shauner111]

Actually the Thor scene was the one with Loki right? K scratch that one lol. But i did enjoy Caps and the first IM. The rest meh. So the first movie and the last movie before Avengers were the good ones for me, they should of kept it at that. It got repetitive after a while.

[Sub-Zero]

make it real. a more believable universe with the fictional cities can work. think about a world where super powered beings try to "protect" but end up causing massive damage to the cities. i see it as more of a general consensus that the world doesn't want these so called "heroes" in it. oh and also have a plot. as much as i loved avengers it had no real plot. :D

[sethypants]

The biggest diffrenciation of all: keep it grounded and real-world.

Use the perspective lense of "what if this was happening in our real world" as opposed to embracing comicbook fantasy.

Superherohype agrees:

http://www.superherohype.com/features/articles/171477-9-ways-dc-entertainment-can-catch-up-to-marvel-studios?start=3


This is WB/DC's biggest trump card. Especially with Nolan as a creative consultant.

agreed. please no, dont use darkseid bcos he is copying thanos. like please. just no.
The biggest way they can differentiate themselves is make it extra realistic like nolans batman.

the tone of the movies is extremely important. One reason why I think dc should do a justice league first is because people would be crazily excited to watch a justice league movie and they because previous few failed attempts at solo hero movies/tv show have left people with a bad taste in their mouth, the movie would start afresh and lead into increased interest in the solo heroes. Dont forget DC has always been better at producing solo heroes than groups. Thats why DC has so many solo books while marvel cant even keep their solo hero's books in publish for more than 30 issues.

[sethypants]

i also think a justice league would automatically be different from avengers because justice league got not nick fury. Our heroes has always banded together because they have to, not because they were told to.

[sethypants]

For me, I think one of the best ways to differentiate a Justice League film from the Avengers is just to drop the movie and then springboard individual franchises off of it. Perhaps the movie can tell the story of how the team came together, but individual movies can do character origin stories (if necessary) after the fact.

Justice League might be the perfect way to finally get Flash, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman films. And another Green Lantern and maybe even Martian Manhunter. And fingers would be crossed to see if we could get a Black Lightning or Vixen film out of the deal too. A JL film might be a good set up for Blue Beetle and a host of other DC characters that could be in their own movies or TV shows.

As for minor or 'cheap' character cameos in films like Man of Steel, I'm not opposed to them at all. I did like Amanda Waller showing up in Green Lantern and was hoping she would be like a Sam L. Jackson Nick Fury for the DCU that would show up in other films. Heck I even liked the mention of Metropolis in Batman Forever back in the day.

agreed. dont see a need for lead in films. like i said dc solo heroes all have a bigger history, supporting cast, stories, rogue gallery and all. So if the justice league can give renewed interest in the members im all for it. Who knows we could see ironman like success for each of them instead of just captain america like success.
So I hope that theres no lead in film.

[Raiden]

The biggest diffrenciation of all: keep it grounded and real-world.



Are you implying that Marvel's movies aren't "grounded and real-world"? :dry: And I would argue that DC superheroes are actually more fantasy-based than Marvel's, since they are either aliens, gods, or people who got magical powers. Marvel tends to love origins based on scientific experimentations or natural mutations.

[The Guard]

I'm kind of a sucker for cameos, if they're well handled, and the character is deserving.

Hawkeye's in THOR would have been better if he'd shot at least one arrow, but it was cool to see him there. Not neccessary, but most aren't.

I don't consider Waller's role a cameo. She had a very defined role in the story of GREEN LANTERN.

[sethypants]

Just thought you guys should read this page.
Its rumored that WW would cameo in MOS.
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=388249&page=7

[DoomsdayApex]

Are you implying that Marvel's movies aren't "grounded and real-world"? :dry: And I would argue that DC superheroes are actually more fantasy-based than Marvel's, since they are either aliens, gods, or people who got magical powers. Marvel tends to love origins based on scientific experimentations or natural mutations.

There's a difference between Marvel Studios' 'grounded' format and Nolan-esque 'gritty' levels though.

I think that's where WB is heading, and what Blackman implied.

[sethypants]

I think one way WB should differentiate themselves is to have even more silly cameos. Several of the cameos for the individual films did not make any sense whatsoever. So wb should definitely out do marvel in the cameos department.

[Rockstar]

Now that Nolan is gone, the best thing WB/DC could do to diffrenciate Justice League from Avengers is keep JL seperate and self-contained.

Have "Man of Steel" be it's own franchise and "Justice League" be a seperate franchise taking place in a different world.


My idea is to draw inspiration from Alex Ross' Justice and Kingdom Come, and have two Justice League films build towards Kingdom Come (KC could potentially destroy Avengers in scale).



Ultimately, WB/DC could have the Man of Steel franchise (with Cavill), a Justice League franchise (with the cast I've suggested in my sig) and eventually launch a new solo Batman franchise inspired by TAS and Arkham City.


Those three franchises in place could be a box office goldmine for the next decade if done right.

[shauner111]

Gina Carano? bradley cooper? wtf. If that ever happens ill throw up. Jon Hamm would make a great older Bruce Wayne but a laughable Batman.

Having 2 Supermans and 2 (or 3 counting Bale) Batmans in the same decade pretty much? Stupid. Confusing. Retarded. The general audience will always be thought of, and anything like that would make normal movie-goer scratch their heads endlessly.

The best idea at this point..if rumours are true that they're trying to throw out JLA in the next 3 to 4 years. Would be to just jump right into it after Man Of Steel. They can use Henry Cavill as a springboard, and everybody elses solo movies can be done after the team up film. That's how you make it simple, give Batman on film (by himself) some breathing room coming after Rises, and seperate it from the concept of Avengers.

It would be like if they did the first Iron Man back in 2008 & went into Avengers with a recasted Hulk. Whether that would have been Norton or Ruffalo. Introduding Thor, Captain America, Black Widow and Hawkeye all in the team-up. Then branched off into their own. Of course this is what WB/DC should do cuz it's a little different. If they ABSOLUTELY need to give us their Flash and Wonder Woman movies before hand then go for it i guess. As long as the character of Batman, Green Lantern (Reynolds or not), Aquaman and maybe Martian Manhunter debut at the same time.

[TheHeatKitchen]

I vote have no lead up films except Man of Steel. Do Man of Steel, Justice League, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern (John Stewart instead of Hal Jordan), Aquaman, Justice League 2.

[Rockstar]

Gina Carano? bradley cooper? wtf. If that ever happens ill throw up. Jon Hamm would make a great older Bruce Wayne but a laughable Batman. .

You should read the Alex Ross Justice comics. They fit those versions of the characters perfectly.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-92PtRHeVnwU/TiOpjaV8m1I/AAAAAAAAACU/ccOOcq0xQzg/s1600/alex-ross-justice-league.jpg

Cooper as Barry Allen has been a popular choice for years.

Even Ryan Reynolds suggested Cooper for Flash.

Having 2 Supermans and 2 (or 3 counting Bale) Batmans in the same decade pretty much? Stupid. Confusing. Retarded. The general audience will always be thought of, and anything like that would make normal movie-goer scratch their heads endlessly.

The best idea at this point..if rumours are true that they're trying to throw out JLA in the next 3 to 4 years. Would be to just jump right into it after Man Of Steel. They can use Henry Cavill as a springboard, and everybody elses solo movies can be done after the team up film. That's how you make it simple, give Batman on film (by himself) some breathing room coming after Rises, and seperate it from the concept of Avengers.

It would be like if they did the first Iron Man back in 2008 & went into Avengers with a recasted Hulk. Whether that would have been Norton or Ruffalo. Introduding Thor, Captain America, Black Widow and Hawkeye all in the team-up. Then branched off into their own. Of course this is what WB/DC should do cuz it's a little different. If they ABSOLUTELY need to give us their Flash and Wonder Woman movies before hand then go for it i guess. As long as the character of Batman, Green Lantern (Reynolds or not), Aquaman and maybe Martian Manhunter debut at the same time .


Nolan, Goyer and Snyder designed "Man of Steel" to exist separately on it's own.. in it's own world.

For the sake of preserving that, I'd rather Man of Steel be kept separate.

There is no point doing the solo film build-up like Marvel did. It's too late for that. Warners want Justice League out by 2015 and Man of Steel was already finished filming months ago.


Audiences aren't that stupid. If Justice League introduces a new Superman, no one is going to freak out. Especially if the JL Superman is vastly divergent in tone and approach from the grounded Cavill version.

[DoomsdayApex]

Yeah... a 'hell no' to Carano and Cooper being involved in JLA.

[Rockstar]

She's the only one who can visually pull off the Alex Ross Wonder Woman in look and proportions.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7445/marvila.jpg

http://www.comicbloc.com/read/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/wonder-woman.jpg

http://cdn2.cagepotato.com/wp-content/uploads/20090814052503_02carano.JPG_.jpeg

[shauner111]

Just because Cooper as Flash is popular doesn't mean i have to enjoy it. And i dont "dislike" just because it's popular either. I'm the guy who wants Gosling for either Batman or Flash. I just don't want Cooper.

If Carano fits that version of Wonder Woman then i simply don't want that version adapted on screen.

[Rockstar]

What do you have against Cooper? He has good comedic timing for Flash and can easily bring some fun to the cast.

It's funny how him and Ryan were the finalists for Hal when they were perfect for Barry and Wally respectively.

[shauner111]

I like him and to be honest maybe my mind would change once i see him in a Flash movie. But for right now i find he's the go to guy for a superhero because of his looks, he's a decent actor but not amazing what so ever. And he comes mainly from a comedic backround like Reynolds.

Reynolds looked like Hal, he's decent but they could do better. He had too much of comedic approach. Even when he's trying to be serious. Not saying Bradley can't be more serious than Reynolds cuz he can, but i just dont find him to be that great of an actor plus it's one of those lazy choices.

You can say Gosling is a lazy choice too because he's popular and rumored a lot for these roles, but unlike those guys he's an unconventional choice for say Batman (popular but not 100 percent fitting like Bale was) and he's one hell of an actor.

Carano is just a stupid choice all together. She can't act but has the look. Big whoop. That means nothing to me. It's about getting the character and being able to give a good performance. I always say this..the look is a bonus if it's dead on with the character, but it doesn't even really matter. It can always be altered. Everything else is what matters.

[Rockstar]

I wouldn't go that far.

Justice League isn't going to be some deep Christopher Nolan movie. It's going to be a summer popcorn action flick.

Gina's acting is enough for this specific role. It isn't a Wonder Woman movie where the focus is solely on her, it's an ensemble piece.

WW is 50% appearance, 50% acting and the threshold for acting in this isn't super high. It's not like WB is laying the foundations for this to be an Oscar-calibur film.

This is going to be another internal project with every exec having their hands in the pie, like Green Lantern.


Reynolds looked like Hal, he's decent but they could do better. He had too much of comedic approach..

I really never saw the resemblence. Even in the costume, he looked silly with the mask on. He doesn't have Hal's square jaw or features.

Not that it was a big deal though... but he was cast to play Van Wilder in space... that was the problem.




You can say Gosling is a lazy choice too because he's popular and rumored a lot for these roles, but unlike those guys he's an unconventional choice for say Batman (popular but not 100 percent fitting like Bale was) and he's one hell of an actor.

Gosling isn't a lazy choice. He's just miscast as Batman.

Luckily, he's already turned down Batman for Justice League Mortal, and turned down Green Lantern.

This isn't his genre at all.

[shauner111]

You could of said that about Heath Ledger or Christian Bale or Tobey Maguire, etc before they ever appeared in a superhero flick. "It's not their genre". And don't say he doesn't like the genre because he's said he always wanted to do one of those movies but he's never been offered the type of scripts he could enjoy.

If it were just about casting Wonder Woman in this justice league movie only, i would agree with you. Just cast someone with a look for WW. But im also thinking of the solo flick for her origin story. It's something i'd like to see on film and it will happen soon. Her story, especially in some recent comics of her origin..lends itself to some epic scope ****. If done right. She's supposed to be a very strong character and not one dimensional, even if the casting on Nicolas Refns part was a little off (Christina Hendricks) at least he thought of a good actress who was also beautiful. The idea of friggin Carano coming on board would turn the movie into either a Green Lantern cheeseball failure or some rough and tough feministic flick that's all action with zero meaning. And crap performances.

It all flows into Justice League, the movie. So maybe im thinking too far ahead but i want good actors cast for each role not just look-wise.

[RachelDawes]

I wouldn't go that far.

Justice League isn't going to be some deep Christopher Nolan movie. It's going to be a summer popcorn action flick.

Gina's acting is enough for this specific role. It isn't a Wonder Woman movie where the focus is solely on her, it's an ensemble piece.

WW is 50% appearance, 50% acting and the threshold for acting in this isn't super high. It's not like WB is laying the foundations for this to be an Oscar-calibur film.

This is going to be another internal project with every exec having their hands in the pie, like Green Lantern.

If JL's a success WB might want to make a solo WW movie, though. Whoever plays Wondy is going to have to be capable of carrying her own film.

[dnno1]

Justice League is already differentiated from Avengers in that they have different heroes. One strategy that Marvel used was to feature their heroes in solo films as they led up to the Avengers where they all teamed up. What seems to be a different approach and maybe a good fit for the DC heroes is to just get the characters out there in any medium you can (video games, television, magazines, collectibles, et. al). I still think that they should leverage the success and brand recognition that the Batman and Superman franchises have to feature their sub-tier heroes in films to get them exposure to film audiences. Rumor has it that there is some chance that Wonder Woman may have a cameo in the new Superman film for example, but you could go the other way and cameo a Superman or a Batman in one of the solo films (like Flash, Green Lantern, or Supergirl). That way you get the fans of Batman or Superman attracted to a character they would otherwise overlook.

[sethypants]

Now that Nolan is gone, the best thing WB/DC could do to diffrenciate Justice League from Avengers is keep JL seperate and self-contained.

Have "Man of Steel" be it's own franchise and "Justice League" be a seperate franchise taking place in a different world.


My idea is to draw inspiration from Alex Ross' Justice and Kingdom Come, and have two Justice League films build towards Kingdom Come (KC could potentially destroy Avengers in scale).



Ultimately, WB/DC could have the Man of Steel franchise (with Cavill), a Justice League franchise (with the cast I've suggested in my sig) and eventually launch a new solo Batman franchise inspired by TAS and Arkham City.


Those three franchises in place could be a box office goldmine for the next decade if done right.

I dun like the actor for Superman. I rather have Joe Manganiello

[Blackman]

I don't know why people.keep.ignoring the OP. IF THERE ARE LEAD UP FILMS HOW WOULD THEY DIFFERENTIATE
not how to make a self contained universe

[Sub-Zero]

the avengers strategy did a pretty good job with it: little nods to a bigger universe. but what was dumb was putting in random characters who really didn't need to be in teh movie(hawkeye in thor, black widow in im2,) in larger than average "cameos". I mean if they wanted to introduce characters don't give them meaningless parts in movies. dc has already done this with amanda waller. why was she in gl? don't do that for the dc shared universe.

[Rockstar]

You could of said that about Heath Ledger or Christian Bale or Tobey Maguire, etc before they ever appeared in a superhero flick. "It's not their genre". And don't say he doesn't like the genre because he's said he always wanted to do one of those movies but he's never been offered the type of scripts he could enjoy.

If it were just about casting Wonder Woman in this justice league movie only, i would agree with you. Just cast someone with a look for WW. But im also thinking of the solo flick for her origin story. It's something i'd like to see on film and it will happen soon. Her story, especially in some recent comics of her origin..lends itself to some epic scope ****. If done right. She's supposed to be a very strong character and not one dimensional, even if the casting on Nicolas Refns part was a little off (Christina Hendricks) at least he thought of a good actress who was also beautiful. The idea of friggin Carano coming on board would turn the movie into either a Green Lantern cheeseball failure or some rough and tough feministic flick that's all action with zero meaning. And crap performances.

It all flows into Justice League, the movie. So maybe im thinking too far ahead but i want good actors cast for each role not just look-wise.

If JL's a success WB might want to make a solo WW movie, though. Whoever plays Wondy is going to have to be capable of carrying her own film.




Not at all.


The problem is you guys are assuming the WB/DC plan for these characters will fold out like Marvel when clearly no evidence exists that this is the case.


Justice League will very likely be a self-contained franchise driven by the studio, especially given by the fact that they're rushing it for a 2015 release.


IF they ever do Wonder Woman as her own franchise (huge IF), it will be a separate thing.


In fact, I'm willing to bet this question will be raised today at the Man of Steel panel with Snyder and Cavill.... whether Man of Steel will be tied to Justice League (willing to bet Man of Steel will be a self-contained franchise).


Don't forget Snyder's previous response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uEgIONT2vo



The odds aren't really in the favor of a 'shared universe.' WB, in it's current state, isn't even set up to pull it off logistically. It's not Marvel Studios.

Nolan was really the only chance of pulling the franchises together under one direction, and that's over now.



I dun like the actor for Superman. I rather have Joe Manganiello

Ew.

I know WB will aim low with JL, but hopefully not that low.

[Joeyjojo72]

This is how I would do it:

2013 MoS
2014 Flash movie with a mid-credits WW cameo
2015 World's Finest with Supes and Bats teamup, and WW in 3rd act. Mid-credits Aquaman
2016 WW movie with mid-credits Martian Manhunter cameo.
2016 Aquaman movie with JL mid-credits setup.
2017 JL movie featuring Supes Bats WW MM Flash and Aquaman.

Im not a GL fan, and have no interest in a reboot. 5 members is plenty imo. If you disagree, just replace either Aquaman or MM with GL i suppose.

My setup seems to me to be the least risky way to go about it. A Flash movie would be by far the cheapest to produce, and if its successful and theres positive feedback on the WW cameo, you can proceed accordingly. A Supes and Bats movie is guaranteed to make money, if its done well, and you can give Wonder Woman a proper introduction and cement the tone for her movie.

The Aquaman movie is a risk, given the expense of an ocean-based production, but theres really no avoiding this if you're committed to the JL concept.

WB can of course hedge their bets by spreading this out more, allowing each film to succeed or fail before proceeding with the next one. In that case, we are talking 8 years before we arrive at JL, assuming none of the movies fail along the way. And they will probably want to squeeze in another Superman movie at some point.

[Skrilla31]

Hey guys, long time lurker and first time poster. Happy to join the discussion.

I think the one thing DC has going for it that Marvel doesn't in this case is that their characters are a lot more iconic. Superman and Batman are without a doubt the two biggest superheroes of all time. I know people are clamoring for a Justice League movie but if DC really wants to differentiate themselves from Marvel and not be looked upon as just a mere copycat, then perhaps they're better off just setting things up for a World's Finest movie. In my opinion, just having Superman and Batman in the same movie would feel like more of an "event" than any Avengers film. Not to mention they wouldn't be bogged down by the other, lesser known Justice League members.

The only other character with the potential to launch a successful film is probably Wonder Woman... because she, too, is iconic. But Flash? I'm sorry, the masses won't sit through a Flash movie. At least I don't think they would. But who knows. The same goes for Aquaman. Lol this isn't Entourage. No one is going to see Aquaman. The dude talks to fish. Green Lantern? Well that had all the potential in the world but it's gonna be REALLY tough to erase the 2011 film from people's minds.

Plus another thing. Batman is probably at his most interesting when he's not playing with others. I know he's an integral figure in the DC universe but he becomes a lot less engaging when he's taking on other-worldly threats and fighting alongside Superman and Wonder Woman. He's Batman. Batman belongs in Gotham City with The Joker and The Penguin, lurking in the shadows... not in some space station. You thought Captain America was useless in The Avengers? Batman is even more useless to the Justice League. Yea, yea we get it. Billionaire genius... sure. Next to Superman and Green Lantern, he's an ant. And I don't care what comic shows him holding his own. He wouldn't. Pure and simple. Keep Batman away from anything having to do with aliens. It's not a good match.

All in all I'm of two minds when it comes to a Justice League movie. I can see the pros and I could see the cons. But it's gonna be really, really tough to pull off.

[66 Face]

Hey guys, long time lurker and first time poster. Happy to join the discussion.

I think the one thing DC has going for it that Marvel doesn't in this case is that their characters are a lot more iconic. Superman and Batman are without a doubt the two biggest superheroes of all time. I know people are clamoring for a Justice League movie but if DC really wants to differentiate themselves from Marvel and not be looked upon as just a mere copycat, then perhaps they're better off just setting things up for a World's Finest movie. In my opinion, just having Superman and Batman in the same movie would feel like more of an "event" than any Avengers film. Not to mention they wouldn't be bogged down by the other, lesser known Justice League members.

The only other character with the potential to launch a successful film is probably Wonder Woman... because she, too, is iconic. But Flash? I'm sorry, the masses won't sit through a Flash movie. At least I don't think they would. But who knows. The same goes for Aquaman. Lol this isn't Entourage. No one is going to see Aquaman. The dude talks to fish. Green Lantern? Well that had all the potential in the world but it's gonna be REALLY tough to erase the 2011 film from people's minds.

Plus another thing. Batman is probably at his most interesting when he's not playing with others. I know he's an integral figure in the DC universe but he becomes a lot less engaging when he's taking on other-worldly threats and fighting alongside Superman and Wonder Woman. He's Batman. Batman belongs in Gotham City with The Joker and The Penguin, lurking in the shadows... not in some space station. You thought Captain America was useless in The Avengers? Batman is even more useless to the Justice League. Yea, yea we get it. Billionaire genius... sure. Next to Superman and Green Lantern, he's an ant. And I don't care what comic shows him holding his own. He wouldn't. Pure and simple. Keep Batman away from anything having to do with aliens. It's not a good match.

All in all I'm of two minds when it comes to a Justice League movie. I can see the pros and I could see the cons. But it's gonna be really, really tough to pull off.Agree with Batman but I would like to have him treated like the cartoon series. He's not a full time member but he's there if needed. Hearing him say no to the JL and then making him the cameo surprise would be that much cooler.

IMO a JL movie starts and ends with Lex in office. As President he can make a move to make metahumans seem like weapons of mass destruction. Lexcorp, secretely aided by tech from Brainiac, makes giant robots, yes we beat them to it, to collect the JL. Then the human non registered heros (Batman, GL, Robin, maybe even Cyborg) go out to aid the JL. After that an all out war between the robots, JL and a Brainiac army with their own agenda.

[Da Games Elite]

I feel the benefit of building up to a Justice League film is that you can generate hype quickly. WB would need to start pumping out the films quick, and release one or two each year to set up the Justice League. If they put enough money behind it, they could gear up a Justice League film in three years. if they only put enough money into it...

...which they probably won't.

All we need is Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, and the Flash. A GL movie already exists, and they can introduce the new Batman in the Justice League film. What they could also do is have a World's Finest film, just crossing over Batman and Supes. I'd pay to see that.

[Silvermoth]

I would add avoid using Amanda Waller because people will just see her as DC's Nick Fury. Try something else.

[Zionite1]

WB should not be rushing out a Justice Lague without proper build up and I dont think they can do that beore 2015.Their best choice to concentrate on a smaller teamup-The Trinity.The only movie they need to release to buildup is MOS and Wonderwoman and introduce the rebooted Batman in it the Trinity movie.The Trinity movie can serve as a prequel to the Justice League and can actually stand on its own as a great teamup movie as it contains the 3 most Iconic heroes in the world.

[Sub-Zero]

one thing the dc movies seem to be doing is grounding it more in reality. putting more emotion into the movies to make the characters more relatable to the audience. i didn't see that with the marvel movies. they just adjusted the comics a bit and created their own movie origins for their heroes with nods to the comic origins, and that worked well.

man of steel looks like it's going to be an event for the world when superman makes his emergence to the public. that'll be met with fear, and questions. which is probably how our modern world will react to it. they should use that world mentality in solo films before justice league if they do solo films first. that'll help build the universe. these heroes exist in the real world(our world).

[gkokujin]

I would add avoid using Amanda Waller because people will just see her as DC's Nick Fury. Try something else.

not if they cast CCH Pounder herself.

shes NOT doing anything and has ALWAYS played the hard ass captain.

[Lord]

To diferentiate they could start with a World's Finest film, then make a Trinity film and finally a Justice League epic. Superman and Batman are already very environments, with World's Finest you could see both of these iconic characters together.

Then the Trinity film adds Wonder Woman that we see the 3 main heroes and different genres, by Justice League 3 of the characters would already know each other and the audience would be already familiar with the idea of all these so different heroes existing in the same world.

It would even give them more time if they wanted to introduce the characters in their oun movies first. For example, now you have The Man of Steel and WB is planing a Batman reboot, after this both characters are ready to be in a World's Finest Film and after that they can make another solo film for each one of these 2 characters and also make 1 or 2 more movies for another character like Wonder Woman, this way making them available for a Trinity film.

One thing that DC can make different from Marvel is an end game, Marvel wants to turn their universe into a never ending film franchise like James Bond, DC can have a begining, a middle and an end for their franchises, and then after the story is done they can find other visions for their characters and stories, just like with the comics where Marvel has mantained their canon since their very begining, the movie of DC can follow the example of the comics where every certain period of years there's a reboot, large or small, with characters from the previous stories making some camoes or returning for an epic event like with Infinite Crisis

[Zionite1]

To diferentiate they could start with a World's Finest film, then make a Trinity film and finally a Justice League epic. Superman and Batman are already very environments, with World's Finest you could see both of these iconic characters together.


I think they best just skip worlds finest and jump right into a Trinity movie.The sooner they can build up to the League the better.But they have to release a wonderwoman movie before that.
The Trinity movie should be released before Avengers 2.I think the The Trinity is big enough to be a rival to Avengers 1.The trinity will serve as a prequel to the Justice league

[Phantom X]

I agree, forget the lead up film idea. Some characters may not generate alotta interest, but if they're really cool in the JL movie people will be more likely to catch em individually IMO. I'd probably pass on an Aquaman movie, but if Atlantis was really cool in JL and Aquaman showcased his superstrength and other super abilities I'd be more willing to check out his solo movie. In the Avengers Captain America, Hawkeye, and Widow were weak, which made the attacking aliens look weak, so I'm not really interested in seeing any of their future solo movies.

[Blackman]

I agree, forget the lead up film idea. Some characters may not generate alotta interest, but if they're really cool in the JL movie people will be more likely to catch em individually IMO. I'd probably pass on an Aquaman movie, but if Atlantis was really cool in JL and Aquaman showcased his superstrength and other super abilities I'd be more willing to check out his solo movie. In the Avengers Captain America, Hawkeye, and Widow were weak, which made the attacking aliens look weak, so I'm not really interested in seeing any of their future solo movies.

Based on what

[Phantom X]

Based on popularity. Batman and Superman are well known and have large fan bases, but then again if the movie is good quality... Wolverine's solo didn't do as great as people thought and folks seem to love him to death. Still popularity must play a role as Spider-man would draw in more people than The Fabulous Frog-man. Also if people know there's gonna be a JL movie they might just past the solo movies and wait to see all the characters at once to save time and money.

[dnno1]

I don't know why people.keep.ignoring the OP. IF THERE ARE LEAD UP FILMS HOW WOULD THEY DIFFERENTIATE
not how to make a self contained universe

I guess there are a lot of people that feel strongly about a separate universe (at least for anything that Christopher Nolan touches). I think it is up to the producers as to whether they will agree to continuity or not. If "Man of Steel" turns out to be a successful film it's producers are not going to want any competing film with a different version of Superman out there. You would then also have the issue of scheduling the main characters to all be in a Justice league film. Marvel did this right off the bat to get the Avengers to work, but I don't know if there was an agreement in Henry Cavil's contract to do a Justice League film.

[LauraT]

I agree, forget the lead up film idea. Some characters may not generate alotta interest, but if they're really cool in the JL movie people will be more likely to catch em individually IMO. I'd probably pass on an Aquaman movie, but if Atlantis was really cool in JL and Aquaman showcased his superstrength and other super abilities I'd be more willing to check out his solo movie. In the Avengers Captain America, Hawkeye, and Widow were weak, which made the attacking aliens look weak, so I'm not really interested in seeing any of their future solo movies.


Thor was probably less well known (in his comic book incarnation at least) than GL and definitely WW but his movie grabbed 450m WW with some good reviews, hey even Iron Man himself could plausibly been written off as not Marvel top tier so not worth bothering with for a movie. It seems if JL actually gets made they'll be going almost straight to it but don't dismiss half the characters before we get there. Not to mention doing a team up with over half the characters being new could be more of a disaster than GL.

I disagree with BW/Hawkeye/Cap coming across as weak, I thought all kicked ass and generated interest in future projects, especially as there was a big revival for a previous movies on DVD for a few weeks.

As for the OP, hmmm tough one. If they do lead up movies now then they will inevitably be compared to TA. Even if they launch into JL people will question that wisdom vs lead up movies.

I really don't think mid credits scenes make much difference except to fans and most people didn't even notice Hawkeye's cameo. BW in IM2 was ok in theory but not good in practice (IMO) but I liked her in TA and I liked that we knew who she was. It really depends on the circumstances.

3. Don't reuse a villain in JL that was already seen in the solo films.


Again, I liked Loki and I liked the idea that TA caught his and Thor's issues mid way through so to speak, everyone's already a known player so lets get down to this. I think it's what gave TA room enough to create those great character moments, everyone has already been given the briefing including the audience (and if not: extra incentive to by those DVD/BRs!)

That said going with a completely different villain might be a good idea given the powers they each have alone and what it could take to bring them together.

[VM1138]

Thor was probably less well known (in his comic book incarnation at least) than GL and definitely WW but his movie grabbed 450m WW with some good reviews, hey even Iron Man himself could plausibly been written off as not Marvel top tier so not worth bothering with for a movie. It seems if JL actually gets made they'll be going almost straight to it but don't dismiss half the characters before we get there. Not to mention doing a team up with over half the characters being new could be more of a disaster than GL.

There's no need to have lead-up films. We all know the main characters of JLA are going to be Batman and Superman. The rest will be some level of supporting cast. You make a subplot of the JLA be the origin of one of the members, and there you go. Everyone knows the origins of Superman and Batman, then the third. That's three origins covered. Then the sequels can somehow deal with the other characters origins.

[nikos52]

you know what the problem is? DC doesn't trust their characters!!

I find it very possible that most people consider Superman and Batman to be their only characters!

Both in live-action and animation,they are taking over! I mean, look at the poster for Justice League: Doom! it's got Batman's face all over it and the rest of the team in a reflection on his bat-shaped throwing thing!

They have all these interesting characters that they refuse to use in solo movies! not even animation...i mean, why are they rebooting batman? we had a batman in the 90s that was ruined...then we had the perfect batman who we all loved...now they want to give us another one?

i have seen batman on screen plenty, let's see someone else!

[Karem-Knight]

It's my belief that if we go straight into a Justice League movie, it'll look even more like an Avengers knock off than if they did the lead-in films. And really think about it, if this film bombs, it will bomb hard. No new DC Movies, (with the exception of Superman if MOS does well) for a loooooooooong time.

The key difference in my opinion is the way to go about this, first off DC Characters are different from Marvel's, no debates here. The only characters in the Justice League that are somewhat similar to a typical Marvel hero are Green Lantern and Flash (by personality , not by mythologies). But they should use that to their advantage by making each solo film their own epic and not to worry about the "shared universe" the only studio interference should be that they keep it all under control by casual mentions and not full blown cameos (make audiences unaware that a Justice League film is being planned).

The main difference between the Nolan films and the Marvel Studio solo movies is that the Marvel films feel like your standard superhero film which works for Iron Man and Cap, not so much with Thor and Hulk (I enjoyed Thor but I think is missed on the more epic sword and sorcery feel that could have separated from the other films). DC should avoid this and make their solo films their own ball game, have Wonder Woman be a tale of Greek Mythology coming into play in today's world with social-political overtones. Have Aquaman be the undersea adventure with an epic battle for the control of Atlantis against Ocean Master, and finally get rid of the jokes by making him the conflicted warrior king he was destined to be.

After that focus on Flash which is probably a safer bet than the other two but still keep it as it's own story. As Flash is more of a standard superhero it could make a great fun summer pop-corn movie with potential CSI elements in there. Now with Green Lantern, we have a bit of a problem on our hands- everyone hates him right now and with the approach I'm suggesting I'm not opposed to seeing him in Justice League where we see his "new" introduction but if WB are willing to give him another go- go full blown space opera here like Star Wars, galaxies away against Sinestro and his Corps fitting with the epic scope of the other films.

Onto the big two as I said, Superman is fine from what we see so far and if it's any indication his film will set the films for a JL film either way they go. As for Batman, Nolan's films are so beloved right now that I think it might be best to either save his film for last or introduce him again in Justice League (keeping his appeal as the mysterious "cool" one). On the other hand if they do decide to have another Bat-film than obviously make it different from Nolan's approach but have it in the loose shared universe we have going.

Finally Justice League it's self, now depending on the success of the hypothetical six films we have- if one or two don't do that well we can still get this one done. Anymore than that, we may be in trouble here but for the sake of argument let's say they've done well enough audience know and like the heroes and are surprised to see a JL film. Now of course the obvious answer is "make it big"- that goes without saying but in terms of tone (where the marketing comes in) it needs to be dark for most of the movie. Yeah, yeah I know that's cliche to say but hear me out.

The villain needs to seem larger than not only life, but larger than the heroes whomever it is it needs to actually seem like Earth is doomed this time- we need to make it look like it will be their first and last stand, an all around gloomy atmosphere where the audiences are at the edge of their seats. I'm talking a disaster/war movie. Market it as such, that humanity is in grave danger and these very different heroes, almost gods have to work together- but that they might not make it out in the end. But at the end, when the League do prevail it shouldn't look like the Avengers with the heroes kicking ass- it needs to be more like angels from heaven have stopped Satan from making Revelations become a reality- leave the audience in total awe and wonder. Instead of people coming out shouting "HOLY ****! THAT WAS AWESOME!" people should come out thinking "Wow..." utterly speechless.

[Zionite1]

Well said Karem Knight
My thoughts on what Wbs plan should be
2013-Man of Steel
2014-Wonderwoman
2015-Trinity.
The Trinity should be their answer to Avengers not JL.JL should be their answer to Avengers 2.
2016-MOS 2 and Wonderwoman 2
2017-Flash and GL reboot
2018-MOS 3 and Wonderwoman 3
2019-Justice League

[ThePowerCosmic]

JL, not until 2019? Lol hell no.

[ThePowerCosmic]

It's my belief that if we go straight into a Justice League movie, it'll look even more like an Avengers knock off than if they did the lead-in films. And really think about it, if this film bombs, it will bomb hard. No new DC Movies, (with the exception of Superman if MOS does well) for a loooooooooong time.

The key difference in my opinion is the way to go about this, first off DC Characters are different from Marvel's, no debates here. The only characters in the Justice League that are somewhat similar to a typical Marvel hero are Green Lantern and Flash (by personality , not by mythologies). But they should use that to their advantage by making each solo film their own epic and not to worry about the "shared universe" the only studio interference should be that they keep it all under control by casual mentions and not full blown cameos (make audiences unaware that a Justice League film is being planned).

The main difference between the Nolan films and the Marvel Studio solo movies is that the Marvel films feel like your standard superhero film which works for Iron Man and Cap, not so much with Thor and Hulk (I enjoyed Thor but I think is missed on the more epic sword and sorcery feel that could have separated from the other films). DC should avoid this and make their solo films their own ball game, have Wonder Woman be a tale of Greek Mythology coming into play in today's world with social-political overtones. Have Aquaman be the undersea adventure with an epic battle for the control of Atlantis against Ocean Master, and finally get rid of the jokes by making him the conflicted warrior king he was destined to be.

After that focus on Flash which is probably a safer bet than the other two but still keep it as it's own story. As Flash is more of a standard superhero it could make a great fun summer pop-corn movie with potential CSI elements in there. Now with Green Lantern, we have a bit of a problem on our hands- everyone hates him right now and with the approach I'm suggesting I'm not opposed to seeing him in Justice League where we see his "new" introduction but if WB are willing to give him another go- go full blown space opera here like Star Wars, galaxies away against Sinestro and his Corps fitting with the epic scope of the other films.

Onto the big two as I said, Superman is fine from what we see so far and if it's any indication his film will set the films for a JL film either way they go. As for Batman, Nolan's films are so beloved right now that I think it might be best to either save his film for last or introduce him again in Justice League (keeping his appeal as the mysterious "cool" one). On the other hand if they do decide to have another Bat-film than obviously make it different from Nolan's approach but have it in the loose shared universe we have going.

Finally Justice League it's self, now depending on the success of the hypothetical six films we have- if one or two don't do that well we can still get this one done. Anymore than that, we may be in trouble here but for the sake of argument let's say they've done well enough audience know and like the heroes and are surprised to see a JL film. Now of course the obvious answer is "make it big"- that goes without saying but in terms of tone (where the marketing comes in) it needs to be dark for most of the movie. Yeah, yeah I know that's cliche to say but hear me out.

The villain needs to seem larger than not only life, but larger than the heroes whomever it is it needs to actually seem like Earth is doomed this time- we need to make it look like it will be their first and last stand, an all around gloomy atmosphere where the audiences are at the edge of their seats. I'm talking a disaster/war movie. Market it as such, that humanity is in grave danger and these very different heroes, almost gods have to work together- but that they might not make it out in the end. But at the end, when the League do prevail it shouldn't look like the Avengers with the heroes kicking ass- it needs to be more like angels from heaven have stopped Satan from making Revelations become a reality- leave the audience in total awe and wonder. Instead of people coming out shouting "HOLY ****! THAT WAS AWESOME!" people should come out thinking "Wow..." utterly speechless.

I disagree about JL having to have an overall dark tone just to get the feeling of urgency and danger across. Sure, the villain should be presented in a dark manner, but the tone should fit whatever hero is on the screen at the time. Batman's world would be dark, but somewhere like Themyscira would be an Island paradise full of sunshine and vibrant colors. If it's all of them on screen at once, then a new tone is created out of that.

[Blackman]

JL, not until 2019? Lol hell no.

i can see that happening:o

[Shawkur]

The biggest diffrenciation of all: keep it grounded and real-world.

Use the perspective lense of "what if this was happening in our real world" as opposed to embracing comicbook fantasy.

Superherohype agrees:

http://www.superherohype.com/features/articles/171477-9-ways-dc-entertainment-can-catch-up-to-marvel-studios?start=3


This is WB/DC's biggest trump card. Especially with Nolan as a creative consultant.

That might be okay as a beginning point for the universe but it doesnt make much sense for a universe full of the fantastical to continue to be steeped in the mundane. Real world events and technological innovations often have dramatic life-changing ramifications, what would the types of things that happen in a superhero universe quickly do to our real world? Plus, like has been said, the marvel movies are pretty grounded considering the subject matter so unless you intend to strip the DCCU of the fantastic entirely I dont see you can differentiate the universe in that regard. Instead of going for "grounded" a better aspiration would be to go for "gravity" - believable, multidimensional characters in amazing circumstances instead of cute, quippy superhero/action hero troupes.

[Mr. Dent]

i agree with some of the other posters in here. WB should knix the JLA title and call it "World's Finest" with only Batman and Superman starring to start of with. This will enable WB/DC to introduce a new Batman without having to release a completely rebooted film franchise right off the bat, tie MoS Superman in with another character, and still let them have their superhero team-up movie while keeping it small enough in scope where you can focus not only on the main team-up story but also Batman's backstory. Best of all, it won't overwhelm viewers with too many new characters, none of which had a film in the past besides Superman and an out-of-continuity Batman anyway.

From there, they can just work their way up to a real JLA movie, which would be easier for DC to pull off since Batman and Superman would have crossed over early on. I'd go World's Finest (Superman and Batman; starring Superman while introducing Batman sort of like the Superman TAS episode) -> The Brave and the Bold -> (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and maybe Green Arrow/Flash) -> Full on JLA movie. This would essentially form a "prequel" team-up trilogy for DC's "phase one" and provide even more backbone for their universe than Marvel had. The team up movies would also buy DC an appropriate amount of time to release a full blown Batman reboot before that final JLA movie. That's not even mentioning the Wonder Woman and Green Arrow/Flash films they would have produced between movies as well.

[Shawkur]

Instead of full fledged team-ups which I think might take away a little from the steam of seeing them all together, I'd just have special sequences in each movie where the title hero of the film meets another hero and show some of the dynamic between those two characters. It would go something like:
1) Batman reboot featuring Superman
2) Flash featuring Green Lantern
3) Wonder Woman featuring Superman and perhaps Batman
4) Justice League starring all the aforementioned and introducing Aquaman and the Martian Manhunter.

[dnno1]

If they want to differentiate the Justice League from Marvel's Avengers they should avoid having invasions from alien races that only focus on the superhero team. If an unknown alien race came to Earth, they would more than likely attack the the entire planet (a la "Independence Day"), and that would be an overwhelming task for a small team of 6 or 7 heroes.

[tekken]

I really don't think Justice League will be the popcorn flick that Avengers was - if anything, it'll be a lighter version of the Watchmen movie, and not as stylized. I think the way to differentiate itself from Avengers would be to make is philosophical, deep, and serious...at least as much as you can with caped superheroes.

It's weird, because the SHH posters are right - DC's characters are far more fantastical and more magic than science, but since Marvel already made quite possibly the best comic book adaptation on screen ever, I think it would be best for the JL movie to be thought-provoking and relevant to contemporary issues; some JLA stories were like that anyway.

[Rowsdower!]

There is a bit of an irony here because it doesn't matter what DC/WB does at this point; it will inevitably draw Avengers comparisons. If they begin with a JL movie and follow it up with various solo character films (other than Man of Steel of course, which will obviously come out first), people will say the JL movie was a clear reaction to the Avengers movie. And if they release all solo character films that eventually lead into a JL movie, they'll be accused of copying Marvel's strategy.

So I say, the hell with it. Do whatever feels right. If the JL script is strong, a good director wants to do it and you can get the right cast members together, then just go for it. If you have better scripts for each of the solo characters, then do that... make the solo films first. Don't worry about the Marvel comparisons because they're going to come anyway and at this point, there's no way (or no need) to completely differentiate from their approach. The characters and the stories themselves are different enough that it really doesn't matter.

[ThePowerCosmic]

**** the Marvel comparisons. If WB was worried about that then JL would never get off of the ground.

[shauner111]

There's going to be similarities that u cant avoid no matter what. But they can try their best to stay away from a good amount of them.

All you need is 1 movie from the original/biggest superhero of all time to trigger it, then your off to a JL film. Starting it with a Superman movie has always been the best idea, not some half-assed Green Lantern movie like they tried to do last year. All because they wanted to emulate the Tony Stark/Downey/Comic Relief experience. All they ever needed was 1 film with either Supes or Batman and they're off to the races.

Im sure they can come up with a plot that isnt exactly like the Avengers, which was great fun but extremely predictable. I personally dont want to see the Avengers 2.0 done with DC characters.

I dont want JL to have its Stark by bringing back Reynolds so he can be Van Wilder for 2 hours. I dont want Aquaman to serve as our Thor. Or our very own Nick Fury, the african-american who brings everyone together (Martian Manhunter/Amanda Waller). No lesser characters like Hawkeye written in the story just so it makes it seem like the group is large...meaning no MM, Cyborg, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Hawkman/girl.

I want it simple, 5 heroes, grittier direction, 1 main threat, darker, still fun but not a lazy plot, a good cast, no silly one-liners every 2 minutes, a villain who isn't made a joke of by the end of the movie, and some kick-ass costumes.

If they use even just a bit of those requests, it should make it different enough to TA. They can do what they want with a sequel, add whoever, expand on whatever. But thats what id like to see in the 1st flick.

[Rowsdower!]

Come on, man. I know plenty of people didn't like Ryan Reynolds but he didn't act like Van Wilder in Green Lantern.

[The Guard]

People are under the impression that Green Lantern cracked jokes and whatnot.

(Shrugs)

[Zionite1]

Well if they are going with 5 heroes.Then I think at least 3 should have been introduced to the audience via successfull Cbms.Batman and Superman are covered,Gl ,Flash,Wonderwoman are not.Ill go with Wonderwoman solo.
2013-Man of steel
2014-Wonderwoman
2015-Justice League with 5 lineup.

[KangConquers]

I don't think they do need to differentiate. I think they need at least 3 successful film franchises going into JLA. Batman can get by on past glories, and hopefully Man of Steel catches commercial fire; They need one more to sell JLA imo.

[KangConquers]

Well if they are going with 5 heroes.Then I think at least 3 should have been introduced to the audience via successfull Cbms.Batman and Superman are covered,Gl ,Flash,Wonderwoman are not.Ill go with Wonderwoman solo.
2013-Man of steel
2014-Wonderwoman
2015-Justice League with 5 lineup.

Perfect. That would put them in the exact same position as Avengers; 3 successful characters, and one character that, while not successful, has still been introduced in films. (Green Lantern.)

[KangConquers]

I really don't think Justice League will be the popcorn flick that Avengers was - if anything, it'll be a lighter version of the Watchmen movie, and not as stylized. I think the way to differentiate itself from Avengers would be to make is philosophical, deep, and serious...at least as much as you can with caped superheroes.

It's weird, because the SHH posters are right - DC's characters are far more fantastical and more magic than science, but since Marvel already made quite possibly the best comic book adaptation on screen ever, I think it would be best for the JL movie to be thought-provoking and relevant to contemporary issues; some JLA stories were like that anyway.

I think the middle ground between Watchmen and Avengers would be a great place for JLA.

[Zionite1]

Perfect. That would put them in the exact same position as Avengers; 3 successful characters, and one character that, while not successful, has still been introduced in films. (Green Lantern.)
Indeed.My only worry though is that 2014 Summer is a bit loaded with Cbms- Cap America,Antman for one to release a Wonderwoman movie.Granted Cap America takes place at the beginning of the summer which means a Wonderwoman film will only have to contend with Antman in midsummer .....ANTMAN......:dry:.You know thinking about it I think Wonderwoman has a very good chance of success.

[KangConquers]

Indeed.My only worry though is that 2014 Summer is a bit loaded with Cbms- Cap America,Antman for one to release a Wonderwoman movie.Granted Cap America takes place at the beginning of the summer which means a Wonderwoman film will only have to contend with Antman in midsummer .....ANTMAN......:dry:.You know thinking about it I think Wonderwoman has a very good chance of success.

Ant-Man isn't being released in Summer 2014. Amazing Spider-Man 2, X-Men: Days of Future Past, and Guardians of the Galaxy are though, with X-Men taking the usual "Batman" release date.

I'm hoping the likely success of Thor and Captain America sequels in Fall 2013 and Spring 2014 will inspire Warner Bros to look at Winter, Spring and Fall options for their own Superhero properties. If you have a great product, and a great marketing campaign behind it, a film should be able to make money, regardless of when it's released.

[Zionite1]

Ant-Man isn't being released in Summer 2014. Amazing Spider-Man 2, X-Men: Days of Future Past, and Guardians of the Galaxy are though, with X-Men taking the usual "Batman" release date.


DAMN.That means Wonderwoman is out for Summer.



I'm hoping the likely success of Thor and Captain America sequels in Fall 2013 and Spring 2014 will inspire Warner Bros to look at Winter, Spring and Fall options for their own Superhero properties. If you have a great product, and a great marketing campaign behind it, a film should be able to make money, regardless of when it's released.
Hmmm.Good idea.So Wonderwoman can go for Fall 2014

[Llama_Shepherd]

You'd think WB would already have confidence in winter spots given the huge success they had with LotR and the success they want for The Hobbit and initially Superman.

[Smashlilman]

There is a bit of an irony here because it doesn't matter what DC/WB does at this point; it will inevitably draw Avengers comparisons. If they begin with a JL movie and follow it up with various solo character films (other than Man of Steel of course, which will obviously come out first), people will say the JL movie was a clear reaction to the Avengers movie. And if they release all solo character films that eventually lead into a JL movie, they'll be accused of copying Marvel's strategy.

So I say, the hell with it. Do whatever feels right. If the JL script is strong, a good director wants to do it and you can get the right cast members together, then just go for it. If you have better scripts for each of the solo characters, then do that... make the solo films first. Don't worry about the Marvel comparisons because they're going to come anyway and at this point, there's no way (or no need) to completely differentiate from their approach. The characters and the stories themselves are different enough that it really doesn't matter.

As long as the JL movies is a high quality movie none of that will mater. People will just enjoy the movie for what it is.

[Zionite1]

As long as the JL movies is a high quality movie none of that will mater. People will just enjoy the movie for what it is.
Easier said than done though.Jl has the unenviable task of establishing a world filled with aliens,advanced tech,gods and magic,timetravel as well as explaiin backstories of characters lacking Solo movies whilst maintaing a semi realistic setting.It needs to get Team Dynmaics in such a way that everyone shines not just Supes/Bats.Quite frankly Solo movies make the job a lot easier.Hence why I am calling for a WW release before Mos

[KangConquers]

Easier said than done though.Jl has the unenviable task of establishing a world filled with aliens,advanced tech,gods and magic,timetravel as well as explaiin backstories of characters lacking Solo movies whilst maintaing a semi realistic setting.It needs to get Team Dynmaics in such a way that everyone shines not just Supes/Bats.Quite frankly Solo movies make the job a lot easier.Hence why I am calling for a WW release before Mos

The biggest problem is doing a JLA film without solo films will turn A-list superheroes into warm bodies, occupying space.

Wonder Woman and Flash will resonate with Audiences much more than say Hawkeye or Widow did, but the lack of solo introduction will still hurt them. I'd like to see at least one of them get a solo film before JLA, perhaps both, with Justice League pushing back until 2016.

As for the film itself, am I the only one who thinks WB needs to spend a lot less time worrying about what Marvel is doing, and just worry about making the best movie possible?

[Raiden]

The biggest problem is doing a JLA film without solo films will turn A-list superheroes into warm bodies, occupying space.

Wonder Woman and Flash will resonate with Audiences much more than say Hawkeye or Widow did, but the lack of solo introduction will still hurt them. I'd like to see at least one of them get a solo film before JLA, perhaps both, with Justice League pushing back until 2016.

As for the film itself, am I the only one who thinks WB needs to spend a lot less time worrying about what Marvel is doing, and just worry about making the best movie possible?

I agree that perhaps this is what WB should be doing, but it is easier to say than done. I think anyone who is doing a project that is similar to another one released not too long ago and was a massive hit is going to approach it with a bit more wariness than otherwise, because they knew that they will be inviting comparisons with that film, whether they want it or not. Even TDKR, which follows Heath Ledger's Joker in TDK, struggles to set itself apart and the result shows. Besides, I think although WB may said that the script was in a development for a number of years, it is clear that they've put it in fast track only after the box office success of The Avengers, and it gives the appearance and preception that they're just aping a successful formula.

However, if JL becomes a good movie, it will alleviate alot of the skepticism and cynicism toward it. I'm just not entirely convinced of its success, due to the fact that the only good superhero movie WB has churned out in the past decade had Chris Nolan involved, and even MOS had Nolan overseen its early stage.

[shauner111]

It's a good idea to do a Flash AND Wonder Woman beforehand but it's not that big of a deal. I still think they can get away with it, with just Man Of Steel .They might even do a WW cameo in MOS.

TDKR had no problems at all seperating it from the previous film. Those were 3 movies with 3 extremely different tones. They managed to bring back elements of Begins & TDK while making it look and feel like a completely different movie. The best example is how opposite Bane was to the Joker. They could have easily thrown in the Riddler but Nolan didnt. JLA has to choose a villain that isn't going to come across like Loki or even Thanos.

WB needs to look at Avengers so they know what not to do. The worst thing they can do is look at it and say "this worked and we should do it too! because it made money." That would be awful. They need to look at the good and the bad of TA and say ... "What worked for them may not work for us. Even if it can, we must do something different so it's not a rehash and so Justice League has its own identity".

[DoomsdayApex]

Yep, JL should have a different concept, foundation, atmosphere and tone. It doesn't have to be grittier and darker than The Avengers but having Justice League be a bit more serious and have an emotionally-fueled story/narrative is for the best.

[KangConquers]

I agree that perhaps this is what WB should be doing, but it is easier to say than done. I think anyone who is doing a project that is similar to another one released not too long ago and was a massive hit is going to approach it with a bit more wariness than otherwise, because they knew that they will be inviting comparisons with that film, whether they want it or not. Even TDKR, which follows Heath Ledger's Joker in TDK, struggles to set itself apart and the result shows. Besides, I think although WB may said that the script was in a development for a number of years, it is clear that they've put it in fast track only after the box office success of The Avengers, and it gives the appearance and preception that they're just aping a successful formula.

However, if JL becomes a good movie, it will alleviate alot of the skepticism and cynicism toward it. I'm just not entirely convinced of its success, due to the fact that the only good superhero movie WB has churned out in the past decade had Chris Nolan involved, and even MOS had Nolan overseen its early stage.

What worries me is Justice League doesn't seem like a property put together by a visionary; it seems to be put together by suits.

Christopher Nolan had a vision and created the biggest, best received comic book movie ever in 2008. Rather than bending to satisfy the niche that Nolan had created, Kevin Feige stuck to his guns and the result was an Avengers film that shattered records by the dozen.

All of the classic comic book movies achieved greatness through having a vision of their own; Avengers ignored TDK ignored Spider-Man ignored Batman 89 ignored Superman: The Movie. They all set out to do something different from those before them. Justice League seems more like a calculated cash-in than a stroke of inspiration.

I have all of the faith in the world in Justice League's potential, just not WB's ability to realize that potential. Man of Steel will be indicative of what we're dealing with, and I hope it's something special.

[shauner111]

Yep, JL should have a different concept, foundation, atmosphere and tone. It doesn't have to be grittier and darker than The Avengers but having Justice League be a bit more serious and have an emotionally-fueled story/narrative is for the best.

That's true, it doesn't have to be a dark film by any stretch but more serious and a story you can emotionally invest in. That's why a simplified team would do them justice (no pun intended).

It can still be fun and full of fighting and flying with the odd bit of humour. Just tone it back with the jokes, add more story to it rather than fighting for the sake of seeing fists thrown for 40 minutes. Make it mean something.

I want to feel invested in the League and their purpose for coming together.

[Gary Griffith]

Is it really that difficult to envision a JL film without the lead in movies? I mean you could open the film with Starro attacking some city - a nice nod to JLA #1 back in the day - and show each hero come in one by one to showcase their individual powers. Flash first, then Green Lantern using his ring to save citizens and attack Starro. Then WW flies in, pounding the crap out of the alien, followed by Batman in his Batwing/Batplane (or whatever their calling it these days) showcasing his gadgets and finally Superman enters and they finish off the big starfish. WW can even use her lasso to determine that Starro wasn't attacking the Earth, he was teleported here by some force, thereby showing off the lasso and introducing some villainous plot.

You then show each member in solo "true identity" segments that show Diana on her island, Barry in the crime lab, Hal doing some jet flying, Bruce in the BatCave with Alfred and Clark at the Daily Planet. Intermingle these with scenes of the villain (Maxwell Lord? Vandal Savage?) doing his thing and -if you want - scenes of the government/public distrust of these meta-humans.

Either way, open the move with the team already in place, show them meeting on their satellite and go with whatever "tone" you want. The bottom line is to make them interesting characters that the audience will respond to and will hopefully want to see in future solo films. A Wonder Woman solo film could tell her character's history through flashbacks, as she was essentially born into a warrior race ala Thor. It's not like she got her powers from a meteor or something. And the Flash's origin is so kind of random - lightning striking him and the same instant some chemicals fell on him - it could easily be covered in the opening minutes of a solo movie and gotten out of the way.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Hope DC ups their game and we get some great movies from both companies. That would be a win/win for everyone.

[MrGreen]

Even if they do Darkseid the GA wont compare him to Thanos since most of them dont know who he was (I heard people saying it was Hellboy) and it will be new in the GA mind.

[shauner111]

Not really because JLA will probably be out a few months to a couple of years after Avengers 2. They need to stay away from that stuff.

[The Guard]

Edited.

[cleverusername8]

I feel like 5 members in a Justice League story is a little low. I mean, stop me if I'm wrong but isn't JLA known to be a fairly sizable team with 7+ members even in newer incarnations?

I say have 6 minimum. Aside from the obvious choices get either Martian Manhunter OR Aquaman OR Black Canary or someone as the sixth member. The audience won't need their life's story, they just need to make the character likeable and give them a significant role in the plot. You can accomplish that in a couple of scenes. I especially feel that Martian Manhunter could win audiences over reasonably well. His story has a lot of heart and his personality makes him possibly the most human of all of the characters (keep in mind I'm basing this solely off of the DCAU universe with the cartoons and movies which I've watched every bit of). And he'd be mighty useful to the team for his shapeshifting/intangibility/mind powers and all.

[shauner111]

Maybe, but im of the belief that "less is more".

I like the idea of 5 members, cutting out the fat, which is something Avengers failed to do imo. I like the idea of them building on the League, adding more members afterwards. It really makes it look like a "League" that gets bigger and stronger and more diverse as it develops.

And i think Aquaman needs to be a character who wins over the audience, makes them understand the character first, so he looks a little more bad-ass and not just a goofy gimmick. I only see that happening once they put out his origin story. Like Batman Begins it'll help you get invested in the main character. Then you bring him into a JLA sequel. They wont have time to put Aquaman out before the team-up.

I get the "we want the original 7 lineup" argument but not the "It's not a league unless it's more than 5 members!". Dont agree with the latter because the 1st flick should be the beginning of the League.

[BH/HHH]

5 Is perfect for the first film in my opinion and maybe even a cameo by a sixth member maybe post credits. I'd love the 5 to be Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) & The Flash (Barry Allen) with a post credits cameo from Aquaman.

[metaphysician]

Ditch Aquaman. It'd be too expensive and too restrictive on the plot to include the necessary underwater sequences ( and *yes*, there would be underwater sequences; not including any underwater sequences for Aquaman would be like not including any "run fast" sequences for Flash ). That leaves the rest of the classic Big Seven, which would work fine. Reducing it to five wouldn't help meaningfully: if the director and writer can't handle six, handling five is probably going to be a mess too.

[shauner111]

5 Is perfect for the first film in my opinion and maybe even a cameo by a sixth member maybe post credits. I'd love the 5 to be Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) & The Flash (Barry Allen) with a post credits cameo from Aquaman.
That's what ive been saying exactly, but people still want their original 7 or whatever. Less really is more. Aquaman can always be done in a sequel.

[BH/HHH]

That's what ive been saying exactly, but people still want their original 7 or whatever. Less really is more. Aquaman can always be done in a sequel.

Yeah well I do like the idea of a cameo, I'd love it if they did something similar to the Aquaman cameo in the Matt Wagner's Trinity graphic novel where Batmans in his sub and sees him.

I know I'll probably get blasted for this but the Smallville episode Justice did a great job IMO of getting a team of heroes working together (I think that was a team of about 5 or 6 aswell).

[cleverusername8]

Well if you want to do the 5 member deal then introduce a new hero right after for a sequel I think Martian Manhunter should be in before Aquaman. MM is a valuable member of the League as well as being more feasible plotwise.

Like someone said before, Aquaman would require SOME involvement of underwater sequences that would force the plot to incorporate elements that allow for that. MM can be adapted to almost any villain and his mind powers would give him a unique role. Plus they could make him super lovable for the audience to be won over by. His addiction to chocolate could add great comic relief when appropriate.

[shauner111]

I watched a chunk of Avengers once again. First time since seeing it back in May. And i have to say...it's really not as good (or holding up as well) as people are claiming. Obviously that might just be my taste too, but i find it rather campy the more i see it.

If WB are truly going to make it different. The tone has to be less jokey, more serious. If you think that means the "fun" would be lost..that's not true. It doesnt have to be super serious. It's still a dream-team comic book movie so it cant be TOO serious but the tone certainly needs to be drastically different.

I also noticed something even more this time. I noticed it with my first viewing but it's cemented into my brain now that WB should keep this lineup as simple as possible. For that first movie anyway. The Barton, SHIELD, Fury, Romanoff roles still arent my cup of tea but it was necessary for that movie. But we dont need a Nick Fury or a SHIELD or roles like Hawkeye/Black Widow cluttering up the movie. I'm even more convinced that JL should be a team of 5.

And for the strategy...yeah 1 or 2 movies going into the big one sound better this time around than a half a dozen solos leading into it. Just for a change.

[charl_huntress]

Why does there need to be difference between them? CBMs are CBMs....why should there be a difference between how they are portrayed?

Seriously, if there are end-credits and shout outs why would that be such a thing.

[metaphysician]

Because then the DC fans couldn't claim "their" works are superior to Marvel's works, basically. ;)