Sports debate.

[TheCheshireCat]

To hell with Ricky. He can go smoke dope and take pictures around the world. If he were to come back to Miami he wouldn't be accepted (even though I'm sure fans wouldn't mind having him back. They would just keep quiet about it since they know he would help.)


We should trade him for Culpepper...then somehow get McGahee...please?

Does anyone know how long Booker has on his contract or if the Dolphins have to resign him or what...if we had him, Chambers, and Boston all playing next season that'd be pretty damn good.

[Lord Nemesis]

We should trade him for Culpepper...

:unishr: :unishr:

[PoAnTimRSexi]

sweet jesus, what the hell happened to the forum

...

In other news, I see im now allowed to have a custom title... which is downright silly. All this blue is hurting my eyes.

[Lord Nemesis]

Hugh Douglas got cut today, do you think your Eagles bring him back for some depth?

[Lord Nemesis]

Brock Lesnar got cut.

[Slipknot]

Brock Lesnar got cut.
Not suprising.

[Lord Nemesis]

Nope.

[TheCheshireCat]

Hugh Douglas got cut today, do you think your Eagles bring him back for some depth?

I wouldn't mind him..he's scary looking...the only scary looking person the Dolphins have is Sam Madison

[Illchill]

Hopefully he comes back to Smackdown.

[TheCheshireCat]

Illchill! trade!

[Illchill]

I'll IM you.

[Lord Nemesis]

I want a WR! :mad:

[Illchill]

I have much depth at WR. IM me. Illchill1234 on AIM or illchillest@yahoo.com on yahoo obviously.

[RatWings]

Brock Lesnar got cut.
Cause he sucks, lol. Hasn't played ball since high school. He probably asked Mike Tice if he could wear his wrestling undies on the field, so they cut him. :rolleyes:

[RatWings]

Hugh Douglas got cut today, do you think your Eagles bring him back for some depth?
Hughey got cut by the jaguars?
Damn, if eagles get them all they need is some decent LB's and they might be ok.

[RatWings]

Michael Bennet is out for a little bit, he was just recently hurt. And I have a feeling he will no longer be the fastest back in the league. And I am willing to bet Bears new rb Thomas Jones will have a break out year.

[Lord Nemesis]

I got both on my Fantasy team.





Ah ha, I knew Douglas's fat ass would go back to Philly.

[Go Web Go!]

Marlins won again tonight. Lets hope they can keep it up and close in on that Wild Card like they did last year. ;)

[PoAnTimRSexi]

And I am willing to bet Bears new rb Thomas Jones will have a break out year.

I already said that a few pages back you no goodnik. :mad:

There's nothing I can complain about with the Douglas signing. It's a one year deal, its a cheap contract... its virtually no-lose for the organization. Douglas plays like he did last year in Jacksonville? He's benched, and gone next year. No problem. He plays like he did in his 4 years under Jim Johnson, one of the best pure-rushing defensive ends in the game? Well, then the Eagles just struck gold.

[Edd Extraordinaire]

Eagles = Supremeness + Douglas.

[Edd Extraordinaire]

Eagles are without a doubt going to the Super Bowl this year. Their lineup is too good.

[Illchill]

I dont think so Book of Edd, I think it may be Rams this year. Maybe Seattle can do it. Not Eagles.

[Slipknot]

I just heard Charles Barkley is accused of sexual assault, lol I don't know why it is funny but it just is with Charles Barkley.

[Illchill]

Heh. Yea:(

[Lord Nemesis]

I just heard Charles Barkley is accused of sexual assault, lol I don't know why it is funny but it just is with Charles Barkley.

I heard about that too. Damn Chuck...

[Illchill]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/illchill/jeterbend.jpg

[Lord Nemesis]

:eek: WTF!? I thought the Bombers only fu*ked over the rest of MLB, not each other...

[Illchill]

They don't judge you:o

[Edd Extraordinaire]

I dont think so Book of Edd, I think it may be Rams this year. Maybe Seattle can do it. Not Eagles.

The Seahawks do have a good chance, but the Rams? No way. Not with Bulger as QB, and not without a good D. Their D is overrated in my opinion.

[Edd Extraordinaire]

Not to mention Faulk will probably get injured.

[NameTaken]

A guy from SI picked the Seahawks to beat the Jags in OT in the Super Bowl.
until about a week ago I agreed with him that those would be the teams. I went to the Packers Jags game Friday and saw Leftwich do horrible(who everyone is saying is gonna have a great year). their offense has gotten 1 TD in the preseason so far and it was off a backup RB. They cut Brackens their best DE, cut Douglas(which i wanted and expected), and cut Hachette WR who looked good so far but kept Hankton, who dropped 3 passes friday. All they have left at DE is Paul Spicer(LE) who will be good and McCrary(RE),a rookie, who hasnt looked good.

Will someone explain to me why they're doing this.
Are they trying to set themselves up for the No.1 pick next year?

[Go Web Go!]

Eagles are without a doubt going to the Super Bowl this year. Their lineup is too good.

How many times has that been uttered in the last 3 or 4 years?

[Random dude 22]

Former NBA star Charles Barkley under investigation for indecent assault

Canadian Press

Monday, August 30, 2004

PHILADELPHIA (AP) - Former NBA star Charles Barkley is under investigation for indecent assault, police said Monday.

A woman reported she was assaulted by Barkley at the nightclub 32 Degrees, Cpl. Jim Pauley said. "We want to stress that no charges have been filed," Pauley said. "This incident is under investigation."

Police received the report at 1:20 a.m. Friday, Pauley said. The investigation is being conducted by the department's Special Victims Unit, and police did not release any details of the allegation.

Attempts by The Associated Press to reach Barkley, now a basketball analyst, and his agent were unsuccessful Monday night.

Barkley was a nine-time all-star and the league's MVP in 1993. He has been an analyst with cable network TNT since his retirement in 2000. Eh. I know i'm surprised. But I don't know what exactly about it surprises me.

[Edd Extraordinaire]

How many times has that been uttered in the last 3 or 4 years?

But none of the eagle teams looked as good as this team does, despite injuries.

[PoAnTimRSexi]

I dont think so Book of Edd, I think it may be Rams this year. Maybe Seattle can do it. Not Eagles.

Gotta strongly disagree on the Rams. Their offensive line is a complete patchwork, Turley is done for the year, they cut their starting center because of late rehabilitation from a surgery, and right now they're plugging in guys who were either cut off of awful teams or who didnt even play in the league last year. Pace and Timmerman are good, that goes without saying... but an offensive line isn't 2 guys. Bulger will spend more time on his back this season than a 3 cent hooker.

As far as I'm concerned, Faulk has been showing his age for the last 2 years. He's done. Steven Jackson will be a great Ricky Williams-type back in the future for the Rams, but not right now. That puts a lot of pressure on a mediocre Marc Bulger, a great Torry Holt and an aging Isaac Bruce. As for their D, at one time their strength was their D-Line... now Leonard Little is facing murder charges and Jimmy Kennedy is done for the year. Not to mention Travis Fisher likely being done for the year, which is a big blow to the secondary.

I honestly think the Rams are an 8-8 team now. Their weak D used to be masked by "the greatest show on earth," but it's not even the greatest show in the NFC West anymore.

[PoAnTimRSexi]

A guy from SI picked the Seahawks to beat the Jags in OT in the Super Bowl.
until about a week ago I agreed with him that those would be the teams. I went to the Packers Jags game Friday and saw Leftwich do horrible(who everyone is saying is gonna have a great year). their offense has gotten 1 TD in the preseason so far and it was off a backup RB. They cut Brackens their best DE, cut Douglas(which i wanted and expected), and cut Hachette WR who looked good so far but kept Hankton, who dropped 3 passes friday. All they have left at DE is Paul Spicer(LE) who will be good and McCrary(RE),a rookie, who hasnt looked good.

Will someone explain to me why they're doing this.
Are they trying to set themselves up for the No.1 pick next year?

I made a bet with my friend the other day, about who would be the best Quarterback in the league in the near future. I told him to ask me in 3 years, and the unanimous answer will be Byron Leftwich.

Byron has too many upsides. He's got a rifle for an arm, and he tends not to force the ball which will make him a very accurate QB in the NFL. He understands the game like very few Quarterbacks who play it, which says a lot because he's 24 years old. He spent nearly every waking hour of last season watching game film and picking Brunell's brain to learn more. His work ethic is incredible, and his attention to detail is the type of material that makes a guy like Peyton Manning as good as he is. The only downside for Leftwich is his suspect mobility, but again, comparisons to Manning arise.

Jimmy Smith, Reggie Williams, Fred Taylor... their offense has potential to absolutely explode. Not to mention guys like Greg Jones, a runningback who will prove to be a steal when he takes over for Fred Taylor in a few years. Leftwich having another year under his belt should go a long way towards establishing a relationship with Smith and Taylor, and establishing one of the league's top-15 offenses.

Some faccets of the D are suspect, true, but Jack Del Rio is the man that made Carolina's defense what it was, and he already showed his defensive ability by making the Jags a top-15 defense last year. Spicer and Barnes are questionable at DE, but its hard to find a better group of DT's in the league. Marcus Stroud and John Henderson are two of the better DT's in the league and having Willie Blade back them up doesn't hurt, either. Cutting Brackens wasn't a surprise, he's been an injury liability for awhile now, and his best/good days are behind him. Hugh was a big money bust, and his heart just wasn't there. I really don't think Brackens and Douglas will be a huge blow.

Anyway, I could go on for awhile longer about the Jaguars... I love the team, and I love Leftwich. I think they have the pieces to build a powerhouse in the future, they just have to be careful and assemble them correctly.

[Illchill]

Well today is the day the sky has fallen in MLB.

Dave Roberts a 3-run homer. Sure, it was like 220 feet, but so what?!

Also, Yanks put in relief after Vasquez, and Strutze, and Niwitzkti.......Estaban Loiaza. Is that desperation I hear?

As I speak, Johnny Damon makes a great web gem to help Schil with a 10-1 lead.

Is that 3 1/2 games back now? And 2 1/2 in WC:D

[PoAnTimRSexi]

The Tribe is winning 22-0 right now... thats a riot.

[Slipknot]

The Tribe is winning 22-0 right now... thats a riot.
That is messed.

[Lord Nemesis]

The Yankees got raped.

[Go Web Go!]

Damn. That looks like a score from an NFL game. 22-0? Ha! Take that, Yankees! They deserve it...

[reggiebar]

Yeah, OUCH!!! I am shocked that last night's game didn't give George a fatal heart attack on the spot.

Maybe it is finally time to worry about this squad?

[Captain America]

Well.. their offense had to wake up sometime, they haven't been giving their pitchers alot of run support lately and well, lmao, it just happened to be the Yankees

[TheCheshireCat]

The best QB in 3 years will still be Daunte Culpepper

[Omega Red]

I think it the Vikings year to win it all

[TheCheshireCat]

I think it the Vikings year to win it all

I like them or Seattle

[Slipknot]

Yeah, OUCH!!! I am shocked that last night's game didn't give George a fatal heart attack on the spot.

Maybe it is finally time to worry about this squad?
reggiebar, you haven't been here in a while to post.

One thing I laugh about is that on ESPN news there is Brian Kinney who is a Yankees fan and there is Michael Kim who is a Red Sox fan, they alwasy argue with eachother over it, it was very entertaining to see them today.

[TheCheshireCat]

I hope Max Kellerman kills himself over this. ****ing bias cock smoker.

"Derek Jeter is the best shortstop in baseball"

Yeah and Julio Franco is the best first base man you ****ing cock block.

[Illchill]

I hope Max Kellerman kills himself over this. ****ing bias cock smoker.

"Derek Jeter is the best shortstop in baseball"

Yeah and Julio Franco is the best first base man you ****ing cock block.

Hey, I am a die-hard Sox fan, but you are hard pressed to find someone better than Jeter in baseball. The Tom Brady of baseball (unfortunately).

[Slipknot]

I hope Max Kellerman kills himself over this. ****ing bias cock smoker.

"Derek Jeter is the best shortstop in baseball"

Yeah and Julio Franco is the best first base man you ****ing cock block.
Lol, I hate Max Kellerman too... stat boy isn't much better but atleast he isn't as biased as Kellerman. He would just mute people whenever they talked bad about the Yankees, damn ass he is.

[TheCheshireCat]

Hey, I am a die-hard Sox fan, but you are hard pressed to find someone better than Jeter in baseball. The Tom Brady of baseball (unfortunately).

Tejada, Mike Young, Guillen, and probably Rollins are all better than Jeter :)

[Lord Nemesis]

I think it the Vikings year to win it allhttp://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Illchill]

Tejada, Mike Young, Guillen, and probably Rollins are all better than Jeter :)

I mean in terms of just a player. His skill is very good and Guillen isn't as good he is just having a good year on a bad team. He just wins, and though it is always said, he IS the clutchest player in MLB. And a absolute leader. I still cant stand the guy though.

[TheCheshireCat]

I mean in terms of just a player. His skill is very good and Guillen isn't as good he is just having a good year on a bad team. He just wins, and though it is always said, he IS the clutchest player in MLB. And a absolute leader. I still cant stand the guy though.


He was real clutch in all 9 of those innings against Beckett :rolleyes:

[Illchill]

He was real clutch in all 9 of those innings against Beckett :rolleyes:

Please, one game. And 9 innings? Or 3 ABs? Please don't make me defend Jeter, but if I have to I will. :p

[PoAnTimRSexi]

The best QB in 3 years will still be Daunte Culpepper

...still? :confused:

I like Culpepper, but mainly as a fantasy quarterback. He doesn't manage a game like Manning, he doesn't run as well as Vick, he doesn't have an arm like Gannon(yes, that same ancient Gannon... he still has a rocket, though). Culpepper has had Randy Moss and a solid running game for all of his career, and still really hasn't cracked the general consensus of top-5 QB's. I still like him though, and would go as far as calling him underrated. That 66% completion percentage last year isn't something to overlook.

[Slipknot]

...still? :confused:

I like Culpepper, but mainly as a fantasy quarterback. He doesn't manage a game like Manning, he doesn't run as well as Vick, he doesn't have an arm like Gannon(yes, that same ancient Gannon... he still has a rocket, though). Culpepper has had Randy Moss and a solid running game for all of his career, and still really hasn't cracked the general consensus of top-5 QB's. I still like him though, and would go as far as calling him underrated. That 66% completion percentage last year isn't something to overlook.
Culpepper is the best QB in the NFL.

[Edd Extraordinaire]

Manning dammit.

[Slipknot]

Manning dammit.
Manning has Harrison and E. James, while Culpepper has Moss and an injured Bennett or an average Moe Williams. Culpepper was better and will be better in future years.

[PoAnTimRSexi]

No way is Culpepper the best QB in the game. I have trouble even saying he's top 5.

You cite that Culpepper has had an injury prone Michael Bennett, well if he's injury prone, what exactly do you call Edgerrin James? Edge completely destroyed his knee and hasn't been the same since. When Bennett went down the backup RB's(Smith and Williams) filled in admirably. Lets not forget that in his rookie season he had a little guy named Robert Smith, who wasn't much of a slouch himself. And Randy Moss is in a whole different league than Marvin Harrison, you can't even compare the two.

Manning is absolutely one of the best football minds of our generation. He manages a game like no one else, like no one since the days of Montana and Elway. He's an elite pocket QB, and I don't believe that Manning would lose anything if/when you subtract Harrison and James. However, you take Moss away from Culpepper and all of his stats would take a big, big hit.

There are players that compliment eachother, and there are players that carry eachother. Randy Moss has carried Daunte Culpepper. Marvin Harrison compliments Peyton Manning.

[Slipknot]

You cite that Culpepper has had an injury prone Michael Bennett, well if he's injury prone, what exactly do you call Edgerrin James?
Bennett played in eight games last year and ended the year with 447 yards while E. James played thirteen games racking up 1259 yards...
Edge completely destroyed his knee and hasn't been the same since.
He was last year.
When Bennett went down the backup RB's(Smith and Williams) filled in admirably.
Smith only went over 100 yards rushing twice in his 15 games he played in last year... and those two games came against two horrible defenses in Chicago and Kansas City. Moe Williams only went over 100 yards rushing once in his 16 games, that also came against a horrid defense in Chicago. E. James had seven games where he ran for over 100 yards rushing in only 13 games with one of those games coming against the Titans, a very good team and a playoff team.
And Randy Moss is in a whole different league than Marvin Harrison, you can't even compare the two.
Harrison played in 15 games, caught 94 passes with 1272 yards last year. Moss played in 16 games catching 17 more passes than Harrison with 111 and rang in with 1632 yards. Moss won, but then look at 2002, Harrison had 1722 recieving yards and Moss had 1347, who was better then? Moss gets the edge over Harrison but not by as much as you are stating... it is very close between them.
Manning is absolutely one of the best football minds of our generation. He manages a game like no one else, like no one since the days of Montana and Elway.
Yeah, I suppose that is why he is winning all those championships and such... he did real well in the playoffs last year :rolleyes:, NEVER ever again compare Manning to Montana or Elway.
He's an elite pocket QB, and I don't believe that Manning would lose anything if/when you subtract Harrison and James. However, you take Moss away from Culpepper and all of his stats would take a big, big hit.
Subtract his offensive line from him and he is dead... his Offensive line is better than Culpepper's is with Minnesota. Giving away Harrison and E. James would kill him.
There are players that compliment eachother, and there are players that carry eachother. Randy Moss has carried Daunte Culpepper. Marvin Harrison compliments Peyton Manning.
Randy Moss is one reciever, no one reciever can carry a team.

[Assassin32]

He was real clutch in all 9 of those innings against Beckett :rolleyes:

You have the greatest avatar ever.

[Slipknot]

You have the greatest avatar ever.
He does, he does indeed.

[Assassin32]

What the hell are you guys talking about? Vikings vs. Colts?

[Slipknot]

What the hell are you guys talking about? Vikings vs. Colts?
Somewhat.

[PoAnTimRSexi]

Bennett played in eight games last year and ended the year with 447 yards while E. James played thirteen games racking up 1259 yards...

He was last year.

Smith only went over 100 yards rushing twice in his 15 games he played in last year... and those two games came against two horrible defenses in Chicago and Kansas City. Moe Williams only went over 100 yards rushing once in his 16 games, that also came against a horrid defense in Chicago. E. James had seven games where he ran for over 100 yards rushing in only 13 games with one of those games coming against the Titans, a very good team and a playoff team.

Harrison played in 15 games, caught 94 passes with 1272 yards last year. Moss played in 16 games catching 17 more passes than Harrison with 111 and rang in with 1632 yards. Moss won, but then look at 2002, Harrison had 1722 recieving yards and Moss had 1347, who was better then? Moss gets the edge over Harrison but not by as much as you are stating... it is very close between them.

Yeah, I suppose that is why he is winning all those championships and such... he did real well in the playoffs last year :rolleyes:, NEVER ever again compare Manning to Montana or Elway.

Subtract his offensive line from him and he is dead... his Offensive line is better than Culpepper's is with Minnesota. Giving away Harrison and E. James would kill him.

Randy Moss is one reciever, no one reciever can carry a team.

So wait, you're discrediting Manning because he hasn't won in the Playoffs? Are you forgetting that it took Elway 14 years to win a Super Bowl? Give me a break. :rolleyes: Not to mention, Manning looked great against the Chiefs in the playoffs. He looked bad against the Pats, but some of that can be attributed to the fact that your DB's absolutely manhandled their WR's, which lead to a public apology from the NFL, and that vaunted, new more strict pass interference rule.

You can't base the success of a rushing attack on how many 100-yard games they had, thats ludicrous. Edgerrin James averaged 4.1 yards per carry last season, pretty mediocre. He had a better season than his last two(obviously), but it still wasn't anything overwhelming, or anything worthy of discrediting Manning. Edgerrin James totalled 1,259 yards, 11 touchdowns, and 4.1 yards per carry. The combination of Bennett, Smith and Williams totaled 1,750+ yards, a yards per carry average around 5, and 11 TD's. But its a moot point, because the running game has little to nothing to do with who is the better Quarterback.

But Wide Receiving does. Randy Moss had 111 catches, averaged 14.7 yards per reception and scored 17 touchdowns. Not to mention he makes catches that are absolutely impossible amongst other receivers. Come on, how many times have you seen Culpepper lob a ball straight up and have Moss come down with it? Most other receivers would not catch those balls, and certainly not as often as Randy. Harrison didn't breach 100 receptions, he averaged 13.5 yards per reception and scored 7 less touchdowns than Moss. Not to mention Harrison can't make the jumpball catches Moss does, as well as Harrison being one of the softest wide receivers in the game who refuses to block or take a hit over the middle.

I just find it amazing that you're really trying to argue that Daunte Culpepper is the best QB in the game. Maybe thats just me, but alright.

I respect your opinion, but I'll stand by my claims that Daunte Culpepper is not a top-5 QB, and you can stand by yours.

[TheCheshireCat]

How can Culpepper not be a top 5 QB?

Culpepper
Manning
Favre
Green
Vick

You say Vick's a better runner, that's like saying Randy Moss is a better runner than Priest Holmes. Culpepper is bigger, tougher, and fumbles less.

Manning's good, but taken out of his element(his offense, his line, his plays, etc) he wouldn't perform as strong as Culpepper. Culpepper will also earn more overall points this year.

[reggiebar]

reggiebar, you haven't been here in a while to post.

One thing I laugh about is that on ESPN news there is Brian Kinney who is a Yankees fan and there is Michael Kim who is a Red Sox fan, they alwasy argue with eachother over it, it was very entertaining to see them today.

Yeah, I have been mad busy at work (the only time I really come to the Hype as I am never at the computer at my house) and to be honest I haven't really been following sports too closely over the past 3+ months since I have been dating my current woman (I am sure that will change come football season but who knows? I have no hope for Miami but high hopes for my Syarcause boy McNabb and Philly).

Anyhow, all of a sudden I look at what is happening in baseball and WOW, is this a reverse 78' season for the Saux/Yankees? I sure hope not, but all of my boys in Boston are going nuts at the moment.

One positive thing - I love El Duque!

Anyhow, it looks like no matter what happens it will fun for all of you in Boston for the rest of September as the American League is totally up for grabs at the moment and this October should be somehting special.

[reggiebar]

How can Culpepper not be a top 5 QB?

Culpepper
Manning
Favre
Green
Vick



I live in Atlanta and love the fact that Vick plays here, but until he strings together close to 16 starts for a season, you simply can not consider him one of the tope QBs in the NFL. Yes, he may be more talented than every other QB, but he hasn't been healthly enough to be considered one of the top QBs in the league.

IMO, the top 5 QBs (in no order) are...

Culpepper (the guy is juts good)
McNair (you can't leave this cat out)
Manning (perhaps the best pure QB in football - period - and I HATE him but have to give him props)
Favre (what needs to be said about Favre?)
Brady (just win - I can't argue with the cat's success)

Anyhow, although I really hate him, Peyton Manning is the best QB in football. You have watched Colts games right? No QB in football manages a game better than Manning as he basically calls the whole game at the line of scrimmage - easily the best football mind of any QB in the NFL. I would put Culpepper at number 2 right now, but he doesn't do everything that Maning does - he simply doesn't.

[TheCheshireCat]

I left out McNair, he should be up there, but so should Green me thinks. Brady is a good QB, but his team makes him better. Winning percentage isn't a good stat for QBs. Jay Fiedler has one of the best winning percentages in the league but he's very far from one of the best QBs.

[reggiebar]

Fiedler has one of the best winning percentages in the league but he's very far from one of the best QBs.

How many playoff wins and Superbowl victories does Jay have?

[Lord Nemesis]

Alonzo Mourning is attempting a comeback. Sweet Lord, why Zo', why?

[Slipknot]

Yeah, I have been mad busy at work (the only time I really come to the Hype as I am never at the computer at my house) and to be honest I haven't really been following sports too closely over the past 3+ months since I have been dating my current woman (I am sure that will change come football season but who knows? I have no hope for Miami but high hopes for my Syarcause boy McNabb and Philly).

Anyhow, all of a sudden I look at what is happening in baseball and WOW, is this a reverse 78' season for the Saux/Yankees? I sure hope not, but all of my boys in Boston are going nuts at the moment.

One positive thing - I love El Duque!

Anyhow, it looks like no matter what happens it will fun for all of you in Boston for the rest of September as the American League is totally up for grabs at the moment and this October should be somehting special.
Ah, that sucks in one way but is good in another... make her like sports damnit!

Orlando Hernandez seems to be the Yankees ace right now and that might be too good when he can usually only go 7 innings, sometimes even less because of all the pitches he throws. Should be interesting to see what happens.

[reggiebar]

[QUOTE=Slipknot]Ah, that sucks in one way but is good in another... make her like sports damnit!

QUOTE]

We don't turn on the TV at all and I like it that way ;)

However, Sunday afternoons this Fall I will be found in a bar watching football with my boyz

[Slipknot]

We don't turn on the TV at all and I like it that way ;)
Lol.

[TheCheshireCat]

How many playoff wins and Superbowl victories does Jay have?

How many wins did Brady get when the Pats defense did all the work?

[Illchill]

And look at who Brady had for recievers, and for a rushing attack. And he still put up really good numbers. And you can NOT deny his top-of-the-line leadership and control qualities.

Here is SI's ranking as I just got the preview issue, my 2nd favorite issue of the year.

[Illchill]

32. Chargers
31. Cardinals
30. 49ers
29. Browns
28. Raiders
27. Texans
26. Bucs
25. Cowboys
24. Giants
23. Bears
22. Saints
21. Dolphins
20. Redskins
19. Bills
18. Falcons
17. Steelers
16. Lions
15. Jaguars
14. Bengals
13. Jets
12. Packers
11. Broncos
10. Colts
9. Vikings
8. Ravens
7. Eagles
6. Chiefs
5. Rams
4. Panthers
3. Titans
2. Seahawks
1. Patriots

[Illchill]

Wild Card round 11-5 Chiefs beat 9-7 Colts
11-5 Ravens beat 10-6 Broncos
10-6 Panthers beat 9-7 Packers
10-6 Vikings beat 11-5 Rams

Divisional round 13-3 Patriots over 11-5 Ravens
11-5 Chiefs over 11-5 Titans
12-4 Seahawks over 10-6 Vikings
10-6 Panthers over 10-6 Eagles

Championship Games Patriots over Chiefs
Seahawks over Panthers

Superbowl----Patriots 27, Seahawks 17 :D:D:D:D:D

[TheCheshireCat]

32. Chargers
31. Cardinals
30. 49ers
29. Browns
28. Raiders
27. Texans
26. Bucs
25. Cowboys
24. Giants
23. Bears
22. Saints
21. Dolphins
20. Redskins
19. Bills
18. Falcons
17. Steelers
16. Lions
15. Jaguars
14. Bengals
13. Jets
12. Packers
11. Broncos
10. Colts
9. Vikings
8. Ravens
7. Eagles
6. Chiefs
5. Rams
4. Panthers
3. Titans
2. Seahawks
1. Patriots

I'm so confused about everyone's ranking of the Dolphins. I'm pretty sure in 2000 - 2002 or so we had no QB, no Ricky Williams, a lesser defense, and a lesser WR group. We averaged what? 10 wins? Why would we be worse than that?

[TheCheshireCat]

Wild Card round 11-5 Chiefs beat 9-7 Colts
11-5 Ravens beat 10-6 Broncos
10-6 Panthers beat 9-7 Packers
10-6 Vikings beat 11-5 Rams

Divisional round 13-3 Patriots over 11-5 Ravens
11-5 Chiefs over 11-5 Titans
12-4 Seahawks over 10-6 Vikings
10-6 Panthers over 10-6 Eagles

Championship Games Patriots over Chiefs
Seahawks over Panthers

Superbowl----Patriots 27, Seahawks 17 :D:D:D:D:D

Bias much? 13-3 Pats win the Superbowl? lol

[Slipknot]

Florida State and Miami game got postponed.

and Urbina's mother got kidnapped in Venezuela.

[reggiebar]

How many wins did Brady get when the Pats defense did all the work?
Enought to win 2 Superbowls in 3 years...look I HATE the Pats (as you know I am a Miami fan), but I simply can not deny what Brady brings to the table as a QB.

Bottom line, Tom Brady is the Derek Jeter of football. Unless someone likes the team that eiether one of these guys plays for, that person is going to through out stats about other players that play the position in an attempt to discredit just how impaortant these guys are for their team and their team's success. People, like yourself, can throw out names and stats of Tejada, Mike Young, Guillen, and Rollins, but when reporters ask the managers in baseball who they would want playing short on their team, the majority of them say Derek Jeter because of the intangibles combined with the talent that he brings - he is a winner and therefore one of the best, if not the best. The same holds true for Tom Brady. People can throw out the stats of the Trent Green's, Dante Culpepper's, etc... but ask any coach who they want leading a late 4th quarter drive in the playoffs or the Superbowl and you think they will say Trent Green or Dante Culpepper? Please, Tom Brady is the answer. Much like Derek Jeter, Brady's greatness is not measured by mere stats, but by the other intangibles that they bring to their teams and how viatl they are to their team's success - period. You can't deny that Brady is one the best QBs in football the same way you can't deny Derek Jeter is one the best shortstops in baseball as their is a thing called "clutch" and both of these cats are as about as "clutch" as they come. Player hate all you want, but you can't argue with the results - period.

[TheCheshireCat]

Enought to win 2 Superbowls in 3 years...look I HATE the Pats (as you know I am a Miami fan), but I simply can not deny what Brady brings to the table as a QB.

Bottom line, Tom Brady is the Derek Jeter of football. Unless someone likes the team that eiether one of these guys plays for, that person is going to through out stats about other players that play the position in an attempt to discredit just how impaortant these guys are for their team and their team's success. People, like yourself, can throw out names and stats of Tejada, Mike Young, Guillen, and Rollins, but when reporters ask the managers in baseball who they would want playing short on their team, the majority of them say Derek Jeter because of the intangibles combined with the talent that he brings - he is a winner and therefore one of the best, if not the best. The same holds true for Tom Brady. People can throw out the stats of the Trent Green's, Dante Culpepper's, etc... but ask any coach who they want leading a late 4th quarter drive in the playoffs or the Superbowl and you think they will say Trent Green or Dante Culpepper? Please, Tom Brady is the answer. Much like Derek Jeter, Brady's greatness is not measured by mere stats, but by the other intangibles that they bring to their teams and how viatl they are to their team's success - period. You can't deny that Brady is one the best QBs in football the same way you can't deny Derek Jeter is one the best shortstops in baseball as their is a thing called "clutch" and both of these cats are as about as "clutch" as they come. Player hate all you want, but you can't argue with the results - period.

Actually I'd like jake Delhomme in a 4th quarter drive, doesn't mean I want him as my QB. The point is: Tom Brady is not the best QB in football. That's what we were discussing. Given the chance to have any QB for free, very few people would take Tom Brady 1st 2nd or even 3rd. They'd probably take Culpepper, Manning, and McNair/Green or someone. While Brady is a winner, his defense and special teams won a good portion of those games. You can't deny the Pats have the best, or possibly the second best(best from a fantasy perspective) defense in football and that definitally creates opporunities that wouldn't normally arise. I think it's much harder to win when you're Trent Green and everytime you score a TD your defense allows a TD.

Derek Jeter's a homo. Go BoSox :o

[Go Web Go!]

Alonzo Mourning is attempting a comeback. Sweet Lord, why Zo', why?

Why not? I would do the same if I were in his position. The guy loves the game. You can't blame him for that. If he feels healthy enough then, by all means...

[Edd Extraordinaire]

How can Culpepper not be a top 5 QB?

Culpepper
Manning
Favre
Green
Vick

You say Vick's a better runner, that's like saying Randy Moss is a better runner than Priest Holmes. Culpepper is bigger, tougher, and fumbles less.

Manning's good, but taken out of his element(his offense, his line, his plays, etc) he wouldn't perform as strong as Culpepper. Culpepper will also earn more overall points this year.


I'm sorry but Vick has to be the most overrated quarterback in football. He hasn't done squat since he came into the league, and he's a star just because he can run. Running should be a last resort in a quarterback in my opinion. Vick does it purposely. He has a cannon for an arm, so it baffles me why he does it. Speaking of VTech people, how about their QB Randall? I cought the first half of their game last Sunday and all the guy did was run QB draws. I don't get it. If he's such a good runner, put him at RB. This is why I love Donovan McNabb out of all the 'running QBs'. He's a good passer and a good runner, but he only runs when absolutely necessary. Sure, he's not the most accurate passer, but he is smart. He only uses his running ability sparingly, because he knows what a QB is supposed to do.

[reggiebar]

Actually I'd like jake Delhomme in a 4th quarter drive, doesn't mean I want him as my QB. The point is: Tom Brady is not the best QB in football. That's what we were discussing. Given the chance to have any QB for free, very few people would take Tom Brady 1st 2nd or even 3rd. They'd probably take Culpepper, Manning, and McNair/Green or someone. While Brady is a winner, his defense and special teams won a good portion of those games. You can't deny the Pats have the best, or possibly the second best(best from a fantasy perspective) defense in football and that definitally creates opporunities that wouldn't normally arise. I think it's much harder to win when you're Trent Green and everytime you score a TD your defense allows a TD.

Derek Jeter's a homo. Go BoSox :o
Player hate all you want, but you can't deny success.

[Edd Extraordinaire]

Actually I'd like jake Delhomme in a 4th quarter drive, doesn't mean I want him as my QB. The point is: Tom Brady is not the best QB in football. That's what we were discussing. Given the chance to have any QB for free, very few people would take Tom Brady 1st 2nd or even 3rd. They'd probably take Culpepper, Manning, and McNair/Green or someone. While Brady is a winner, his defense and special teams won a good portion of those games. You can't deny the Pats have the best, or possibly the second best(best from a fantasy perspective) defense in football and that definitally creates opporunities that wouldn't normally arise. I think it's much harder to win when you're Trent Green and everytime you score a TD your defense allows a TD.

Derek Jeter's a homo. Go BoSox :o


Delhomme? PLEASE. The only reason that guy is still the QB of the Panthers is because that defense took them to the Super Bowl last year. The defense and Stephen Davis are the only reasons they went to the Super Bowl.

[TheCheshireCat]

Delhomme? PLEASE. The only reason that guy is still the QB of the Panthers is because that defense took them to the Super Bowl last year. The defense and Stephen Davis are the only reasons they went to the Super Bowl.

How many games did he win in the 4th quarter? Do your homework :rolleyes:

[TheCheshireCat]

Player hate all you want, but you can't deny success.

If ESPN does it to the Marlins I can do it to the Pats :)

[Illchill]

Enought to win 2 Superbowls in 3 years...look I HATE the Pats (as you know I am a Miami fan), but I simply can not deny what Brady brings to the table as a QB.

Bottom line, Tom Brady is the Derek Jeter of football.

Same friggin thing I said like a page ago, maybe even on this page. :eek:
Great minds I guess.

BTW, watch your back, here come SOX!

[Slipknot]

I'm so confused about everyone's ranking of the Dolphins. I'm pretty sure in 2000 - 2002 or so we had no QB, no Ricky Williams, a lesser defense, and a lesser WR group. We averaged what? 10 wins? Why would we be worse than that?
Bias much? 13-3 Pats win the Superbowl? lol
That is Sports Illustrated's picks... not Illchil's.

[Illchill]

Bias much? 13-3 Pats win the Superbowl? lol

Hey, it ain't mine.
That comment you made is ridiculous We won the Superbowl last year and what was our record again? Why is 13-3 Superbowl win so wrong?

[Illchill]

I'm so confused about everyone's ranking of the Dolphins. I'm pretty sure in 2000 - 2002 or so we had no QB, no Ricky Williams, a lesser defense, and a lesser WR group. We averaged what? 10 wins? Why would we be worse than that?


Why? Because it is the past. They cant even win 3 quarters into the year with their best team on the field, forget now.

[TheCheshireCat]

That is Sports Illustrated's picks... not Illchil's.

Is SI published in Boston?

I know you guys got 12 wins last year, but repeat success like that isn't something I'd bet on when two of the three teams in your division only got stronger.

[TheCheshireCat]

Why? Because it is the past. They cant even win 3 quarters into the year with their best team on the field, forget now.

...What?

[Slipknot]

Is SI published in Boston?
Not that I know of...
I know you guys got 12 wins last year,
14 regular season wins*
but repeat success like that isn't something I'd bet on when two of the three teams in your division only got stronger.
Patriots also got stronger...

[TheCheshireCat]

Not that I know of...

14 regular season wins*

Patriots also got stronger...


I'm not counting the Dolphins games...those were rigged.

Patriots also got lamer :rolleyes:

[Illchill]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.......

[TheCheshireCat]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.......

Well, at least I can say the Marlins are much cooler than Boston. We're going to win the WS again :daredevil

[Slipknot]

I'm not counting the Dolphins games...those were rigged.
Lol, nice attempted save there.

[TheCheshireCat]

Lol, nice attempted save there.

Well it was worth losing the first one to win the WS, and the second one never happened

[PoAnTimRSexi]

32. Chargers
31. Cardinals
30. 49ers
29. Browns
28. Raiders
27. Texans
26. Bucs
25. Cowboys
24. Giants
23. Bears
22. Saints
21. Dolphins
20. Redskins
19. Bills
18. Falcons
17. Steelers
16. Lions
15. Jaguars
14. Bengals
13. Jets
12. Packers
11. Broncos
10. Colts
9. Vikings
8. Ravens
7. Eagles
6. Chiefs
5. Rams
4. Panthers
3. Titans
2. Seahawks
1. Patriots

Titans won't make the playoffs... i'll bet you all a shiny nickel

[Brodie Bruce]

4 Shiny nickels! ANd how does the guy who made that list rank the titans higher than the chiefs, yet have the chiefs beat the Titans in the palyoffs? He has no credibility.

[X The Bends X]

Bo-sox wins world series against the Cardinal in six games. Go Sox!!!

[Assassin32]

28. Raiders

BURN IN HELL!!!:mad:

[Slipknot]

Titans won't make the playoffs... i'll bet you all a shiny nickel
BURN IN HELL!!!:mad:
Ugh, once more... it is Sports Illustrated picks, not Illchill's.

[Assassin32]

He knows I come in this thread. He knew I would see it. BRING IT ON, ILLCHILL!:mad:

[PoAnTimRSexi]

...I know they're not Illchill's rankings...

[Slipknot]

...I know they're not Illchill's rankings...
Then don't make is sound like you are talking directly towards Illchill.

[PoAnTimRSexi]

Then don't make is sound like you are talking directly towards Illchill.

How do you get "Illchill" out of "I bet you all..."?

[reggiebar]

Same friggin thing I said like a page ago, maybe even on this page. :eek:
Great minds I guess.

BTW, watch your back, here come SOX!

Yeah, I may be biased with the teams that I root for to win games, but when it comes to giving credit where credit is due, I put aside all personal likes of teams/players and always give props despite if I like that player/team or not.

I said to Slipknot that perhaps this season is 78' in reverse for the Saux - I don't like that idea at all ;)

Honestly, and not to sound like a jerk or anything, but it has been hard for me to really get into baseball over the last 4 years because of all the success the Yankees had from 96-00 - it really hasn't been all that much fun watching them run away with the Division every year although the Sox/Yankees playoff series last year was a 7 game classic for the ages and reminded me of what I love about the game. It was more fun rooting for the Yankees in the 80s and early 90s when they were still trying to even reach the playoffs. Now, it is like I just can't get into baseball, even in October, because the Yankees have had too much success (I am not used to rooting for teams that win growing up a NY Knicks, NY Rangers, Miami Dolphin and NY Yankee fan). Anyhow, with the Sox on this current surge only a mere 3 games back of the Yanks and the Yankee starting pitching looking questionable at best, baseball has suddenly gotten interesting again and I am really looking forward to the playoffs this year as the AL is simply stacked with really good teams at the top.

As I have said before, I hate Boston, but I met so many good friends from the Boston area who went to Syracuse University with me that I almost wouldn't mind Boston finally winning as it would bring such great happiness to so many of my friends and their families from Boston. I am very torn on this subject because I know just how much joy it would bring to so many cats that I care about. Also, as I continue to get older and my lifestyle keeps changing, I am been watching less and less sports, so my passion isn't nearly as great as it once was for sports, except for pulling for my alma mata.

So, totally enjoy the rest of the baseball season as it is shaping up to possibly be a magic fall for the Sox.

[Slipknot]

How do you get "Illchill" out of "I bet you all..."?
By directly quoting Illchill and saying "Titans won't make the playoffs..." first off, it sounds as if you are talking to him saying his pick of the Titans is wrong, and then you wrote "i'll bet you all a shiny nickel" which sounds like you are saying your picks are wrong and I will bet everyone shiny nickel on it.

[Illchill]

He knows I come in this thread. He knew I would see it. BRING IT ON, ILLCHILL!:mad:

Pssh. They'll be 6-10.

[Illchill]

Bo-sox wins world series against the Cardinal in six games. Go Sox!!!

Yea, but even though we win it, we'll still lose some how. :( :confused: :mad:

[TheCheshireCat]

Haha someone said Boston was going to win the WS. That's funny.

Cardinals over A's :)

Marlins are catching up though!

[Illchill]

So you're suggesting the A's will actually win a playoff series?

[TheCheshireCat]

So you're suggesting the A's will actually win a playoff series?

I like their pitching too much, plus they have some strong hitting...and they have a better chance than Boston.

[Illchill]

I like their pitching too much, plus they have some strong hitting...and they have a better chance than Boston.
:rolleyes: Yea, right. How exactly do that happen?

Their offense is decent, espcially from the left side. And if they were to meet up in the playoffs, granted the Sox have no lefties except Myers and Embree. But Schilling and Pedro, in addition to a Derek Lowe who is becoming mroe than just a sinker ball pitcher and has better movement on his other pitches, and a Tim Wakefield who has looked really good. The A's choke in the first round, the Sox choke in latter rounds. Sox will deifnaely take it if they face each other.

[TheCheshireCat]

Also: Any of the regular posters in this thread who are interested in joining an SHH fantasy league for people who actually know about football: PM me for the info.

[TheCheshireCat]

:rolleyes: Yea, right. How exactly do that happen?

Their offense is decent, espcially from the left side. And if they were to meet up in the playoffs, granted the Sox have no lefties except Myers and Embree. But Schilling and Pedro, in addition to a Derek Lowe who is becoming mroe than just a sinker ball pitcher and has better movement on his other pitches, and a Tim Wakefield who has looked really good. The A's choke in the first round, the Sox choke in latter rounds. Sox will deifnaely take it if they face each other.

Hmm I don't know. If it's only a 5 game series..A's have 5 excellent pitchers :)

Don't spice up Derek Lowe...compared to Zito, Harden, and Redman :) (assuming Hudson and Mulder are the aces)

[Illchill]

Assuming Hudson and Mulder are healthy in posseason this time around is more like it. But they won't throw Redman out there. And they have sucky relief, the Sox have them there, espcailly in the closer position. And the Sox offense and defense are probably the best in the league.

[Illchill]

Either way, we will have a preview of this series in Oakland in a few days. Oakland will be facing Arroyo, Lowe and Pedro I think, no Schil.

[TheCheshireCat]

Assuming Hudson and Mulder are healthy in posseason this time around is more like it. But they won't throw Redman out there. And they have sucky relief, the Sox have them there, espcailly in the closer position. And the Sox offense and defense are probably the best in the league.

The Sox do not have the best defense in the league. I'm pretty sure the Dodgers do, and the Marlins are way up there. Not to mention Oakland on sports center's top ten plays like every day. Well without Redman, you could get: Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Hudson? That sounds easy. Oakland has a good closer, and I can't even think of the Sox's pen.

[TheCheshireCat]

Either way, we will have a preview of this series in Oakland in a few days. Oakland will be facing Arroyo, Lowe and Pedro I think, no Schil.

Who for Oakland? I was supposed to go to the Cubs game Sunday...God damn hurricane

[Slipknot]

Oakland has a good closer
LOL! Wtf are you talking about? Dotel has been nothing short of horrible all tis year, with Houston and with Oakland... he has blown more saves than I can think of and almost blows a ton more. What you just said was so dumb I cant really think of what else to say. We have Foulke, he beats Dotel's ass any day.

[Illchill]

The Sox do not have the best defense in the league. I'm pretty sure the Dodgers do, and the Marlins are way up there. Not to mention Oakland on sports center's top ten plays like every day. Well without Redman, you could get: Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Hudson? That sounds easy. Oakland has a good closer, and I can't even think of the Sox's pen.

League, meaning AL. And Pokey's return will only enhance that by far.

And the A's closer i the unpredciatble Octavio Dotel. While the Sox have who was fantastic this year before getting hrut in Scott Williamson coming back, and he'll be helping set it up for Keith Foulke.

Mueller, and 3 gold glovers to the right of him. With Johnny Damon, Trot Nixon (coming back), and Varitek at the dish, I'd say best defense in posibly the majors.

[TheCheshireCat]

League, meaning AL. And Pokey's return will only enhance that by far.

And the A's closer i the unpredciatble Octavio Dotel. While the Sox have who was fantastic this year before getting hrut in Scott Williamson coming back, and he'll be helping set it up for Keith Foulke.

Mueller, and 3 gold glovers to the right of him. With Johnny Damon, Trot Nixon (coming back), and Varitek at the dish, I'd say best defense in posibly the majors.

When you say League I think Major League Baseball. Be specific.

In the majors, Dodgers then Marlins. If Alex Gonz doesn't win the Gold Glove this year they need to change the procedure for selecting them.

As for Dotel, he and Foulke both have 5 blown saves, Dotel has a 4-1 record with 17 saves and Foulke has a 3-3 record with like 25 saves. According to mlb.com. I'll give you Foulke has a much better ERA, but he's still a decent closer.

[Illchill]

And look at the IP for Foulke, and then the save opps which are like 31. He pitches and pitches effectively no matter what the situation is. Bottom line is, Sox have them in 1-2 starters (which is no easy task), offense by far, defense by far, and bullpen, espcially closer.

[Slipknot]

I'll give you Foulke has a much better ERA, but he's still a decent closer.
Mediocre at the best.

[Lord Nemesis]

In a completely unrelated note: Rohan Davey sucks.

[Slipknot]

In a completely unrelated note: Rohan Davey sucks.
I would have to agree with you on that one.

[TheCheshireCat]

So you're saying you're positive that Schil and Pedro will always beat Hudson and Mulder? That's a little arrogant. I'll admit they're spectacular, but you can't say for sure they'll always win, especially if you're in Oakland where Schil is worse. I still like the Marlins rotation better than Boston's :)

[Slipknot]

I still like the Marlins rotation better than Boston's :)
You dropped Beckett... psst.

[TheCheshireCat]

You dropped Beckett... psst.

Well he's was looking like the worst pitcher on my team and I need hitting.

[Slipknot]

Well he's was looking like the worst pitcher on my team and I need hitting.
Marlins pitching isn't as great as it was last year or early in this season with Beckett doing only average and Penny gone... the only good thing you have is Mr. David Boston of baseball, AJ Burnett.

[TheCheshireCat]

Marlins pitching isn't as great as it was last year or early in this season with Beckett doing only average and Penny gone... the only good thing you have is Mr. David Boston of baseball, AJ Burnett.

Ok what?

Beckett just pitched a CG SO
Pavano just got his 16th Win
Burnett just struck out 14 and is looking better every outting
Willis is consistant and is a good lefty/number 3 or 4 starter
and Valdez just got his 100th career win and has been excellent.

Penny isn't even playing.

[Illchill]

I didnt say they would always win, but they are better. Tonight, it is possible John Wadsin beat Pedro, but is unlikely. Pedro and Schil are better than Hudson and Mulder.

[TheCheshireCat]

I didnt say they would always win, but they are better. Tonight, it is possible John Wadsin beat Pedro, but is unlikely. Pedro and Schil are better than Hudson and Mulder.

Well I would've said Clemens and Pettite were better than Penny and Beckett but...

[Illchill]

``````````W L ERA G CG SHO IP H R ER HBP BB SO
C Pavano
-----------16 5 3.09 26 1 1 186.2 174 69 64 9 46 115
D. Willis
------------9 9 3.97 27 27 2 0 163.1 177 82 72 8 47 117
I Valdez
------------12 7 5.23 28 25 1 1 141.0 169 88 82 2 39 49
J Beckett
-------------6 8 4.05 20 20 1 1 115.2 106 58 52 5 37 113
A Burnett
------------ 5 6 3.91 17 17 1 0 103.2 93 46 45 3 32 97

[Illchill]

I'll post Sox starters now....

[TheCheshireCat]

``````````W L ERA G CG SHO IP H R ER HBP BB SO
C Pavano
16 5 3.09 26 1 1 186.2 174 69 64 9 46 115
D. Willis
9 9 3.97 27 27 2 0 163.1 177 82 72 8 47 117
I Valdez
12 7 5.23 28 25 1 1 141.0 169 88 82 2 39 49
J Beckett
6 8 4.05 20 20 1 1 115.2 106 58 52 5 37 113
A Burnett
5 6 3.91 17 17 1 0 103.2 93 46 45 3 32 97

Beckett and Burnett's losses are misleading. Beckett keeps gettin injurred(obviously looking better now) and Burnett's losses all came when he first was brought up. He's been lights out since.

[Slipknot]

Beckett just pitched a CG SO
And the start before that? 5 innings, 4 runs... he has been average at best with a 4.05 ERA.
Pavano just got his 16th Win
I never said anything bad about him...
Burnett just struck out 14 and is looking better every outting
How long will it be until he screws up something? He tends to do that on a consistent basis.
Willis is consistant and is a good lefty/number 3 or 4 starter
He has had a pretty good year but he hasn't been all that consistent, I lok at his game by game and see W, L, W, L and so on... with his last start him giving up 10 hits and 4 runs through 5 innings.
and Valdez just got his 100th career win and has been excellent.
Yes, I am sure 4 runs through 5 innings is good in your opinion? He got a cheap ass 100th career win. He has been average at best with the Marlins. A 4.00 ERA with the Marlins and a 5.23 ERA with both San Diego and Florida.

[Illchill]

----W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HBP BB SO
C Schilling
---17 6 3.39 27 27 3 0 188.2 185 73 71 5 28 162
P Martinez
---14 5 3.69 27 27 1 1 180.2 157 78 74 13 46 188
D Lowe
----13 10 5.15 27 27 0 0 159.0 190 117 91 8 59 91
T Wakefield
---11 7 4.38 26 24 0 0 156.0 160 87 76 11 46 95
B Arroyo
----7 9 4.24 26 23 0 0 144.1 143 87 68 17 43 119

[TheCheshireCat]

And the start before that? 5 innings, 4 runs... he has been average at best with a 4.05 ERA.


How long will it be until he screws up something? He tends to do that on a consistent basis.

He has had a pretty good year but he hasn't been all that consistent, I lok at his game by game and see W, L, W, L and so on... with his last start him giving up 10 hits and 4 runs through 5 innings.

Yes, I am sure 4 runs through 5 innings is good in your opinion? He got a cheap ass 100th career win. He has been average at best with the Marlins. A 4.00 ERA with the Marlins and a 5.23 ERA with both San Diego and Florida.

Yeah and hurt himself right? Beckett's getting his form back maybe.

Burnett's been lights out his past few starts. Last month: 3 wins, 2.83 ERA, 43 K's 22 hits. That's better than Schiling in every way except 1 win.

I said Willis was a good 3-4 starter. Been as shaky as Lowe or Wakefield.

Valdez had like a 5 hitter sometime before that. Point is we're winning games and everyone is pitching strong enough.

[TheCheshireCat]

----W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HBP BB SO
C Schilling
---17 6 3.39 27 27 3 0 188.2 185 73 71 5 28 162
P Martinez
---14 5 3.69 27 27 1 1 180.2 157 78 74 13 46 188
D Lowe
----13 10 5.15 27 27 0 0 159.0 190 117 91 8 59 91
T Wakefield
---11 7 4.38 26 24 0 0 156.0 160 87 76 11 46 95
B Arroyo
----7 9 4.24 26 23 0 0 144.1 143 87 68 17 43 119

Well, only 2 of our pitchers have been healthy all season. You really can't compare the stats win-loss wise since they all have fewer starts. We've also been a .500 team due to a ****ty pen half the season :)

[Slipknot]

Yeah and hurt himself right? Beckett's getting his form back maybe.

Burnett's been lights out his past few starts. Last month: 3 wins, 2.83 ERA, 43 K's 22 hits. That's better than Schiling in every way except 1 win.

I said Willis was a good 3-4 starter. Been as shaky as Lowe or Wakefield.

Valdez had like a 5 hitter sometime before that. Point is we're winning games and everyone is pitching strong enough.
Your points are wearing thin, you compare an injury proned man in Burnett that has ony been pitching since June to a pitcher with what now? 17 wins and has been pitching all year and may win the cy young award... your comparisons are foolish.

[TheCheshireCat]

Your points are wearing thin, you compare an injury proned man in Burnett that has ony been pitching since June to a pitcher with what now? 17 wins and has been pitching all year and may win the cy young award... your comparisons are foolish.

Wasn't a point, just an interesting observation reflecting how much better Burnett is pitching now compared to when he first came off of injury. Santana will win the Cy Young me thinks.

[Illchill]

I didn't say a thing about wins. Heck, Arroyo shoulda have a 12-5 record probably right now. Lowe, despite that ERA, shoulda have a couple more wins. Schilling has the best stuff and control for a righty in the game.Wakefield has the best knuckler in baseball. Arroyo has sick breaking stuff and all he eneds to do is spot it to be effective. Pedro is looking more and more like pedro every day, and tonight against a huge offense will be a great test again. Lowe has a heavy sinker, but he throws more pitches now too.

[Slipknot]

Santana will win the Cy Young me thinks.
If he reaches 20 wins then he will definetly win it. But if people look back towards the start of the season they will see bad perofrmances up until about June 3rd, that is when he really turned it on. It should be a close race either way.

[TheCheshireCat]

If he reaches 20 wins then he will definetly win it. But if people look back towards the start of the season they will see bad perofrmances up until about June 3rd, that is when he really turned it on. It should be a close race either way.

If Santana keeps his current pace he'll win it. Schiling plays for a better team. Same thing happened with Gagne beating Russ Ortiz last season.

[Illchill]

I think te Sox's only way of losing this time around is if they let tha curse talk get to their heads. They have to play good enough to NOT let these bad breaks happen.

I mean look at the team. I just said about the rotation. The bullpen is probably are biggest question mark, btu with Williamson coming back and havign a lefty specialist in Myers and a top-nothcer in Foulke, they can hold their own,.

Manny in left isn't as bad as people think. He plays the monster better than anyone can. Johnny Damon would proabbly win a gold glove if Torri Hunter wasn't in thr AL (and the arm didnt count:/). He has fantastic speed, range, and glove. Nixon plays a really good right field, btu so does anyone who is playing right for us. Roberts gives use huge speed and Kapler plays it real nice too, and had a gun. Mueller has played SPECTCULAR defense since coming back from surgery, Caberea is a gold glover and only is beaten by Nomah in range. Pokey is the best defensive second baseman in the Majors. Mienkitwicz is best defensive 1B in AL. And Varitek isn't exactly Mike Piazza behind the plate.

[TheCheshireCat]

I think te Sox's only way of losing this time around is if they let tha curse talk get to their heads. They have to play good enough to NOT let these bad breaks happen.

I mean look at the team. I just said about the rotation. The bullpen is probably are biggest question mark, btu with Williamson coming back and havign a lefty specialist in Myers and a top-nothcer in Foulke, they can hold their own,.

Manny in left isn't as bad as people think. He plays the monster better than anyone can. Johnny Damon would proabbly win a gold glove if Torri Hunter wasn't in thr AL (and the arm didnt count:/). He has fantastic speed, range, and glove. Nixon plays a really good right field, btu so does anyone who is playing right for us. Roberts gives use huge speed and Kapler plays it real nice too, and had a gun. Mueller has played SPECTCULAR defense since coming back from surgery, Caberea is a gold glover and only is beaten by Nomah in range. Pokey is the best defensive second baseman in the Majors. Mienkitwicz is best defensive 1B in AL. And Varitek isn't exactly Mike Piazza behind the plate.

Starting to sound like a Miami Dolphins fan!

[Illchill]

No, my team is good. Actually among the best.

[TheCheshireCat]

No, my team is good. Actually among the best.

And has been since 1918 :rolleyes:

Going into last season we had a top 3 defense, sack leader, 7-Int guy, leading rusher, Chris Chambers, etc etc etc and we didn't do ****, which is exactly what the Red Sox will do. :)

[Illchill]

Yea, we have been among the best since 1918. And we have much mroe then Dolphins had, and Dolphins didnt make playoffs. Sox will.

[TheCheshireCat]

We've still won in the past 86 years, more than once!

[Illchill]

You wanna do history? Sox still have more WS wins than Fins have SB wins.

[TheCheshireCat]

You wanna do history? Sox still have more WS wins than Fins have SB wins.

The Sox are an older team...like 100 years older.

[Slipknot]

The Sox are an older team...like 100 years older.
I wouldn't go that far...

[Brodie Bruce]

Yeah, It's only 60 or so.

[TheCheshireCat]

I wouldn't go that far...

When were the Sox founded then?

[Slipknot]

When were the Sox founded then?
You were actually serious about the 100 years thing? Damn you are not up to date when teams were founded then.

The Red Sox were founded in 1901... the Dolphins were founded in 1966. Do the math.

[TheCheshireCat]

You were actually serious about the 100 years thing? Damn you are not up to date when teams were founded then.

The Red Sox were founded in 1901... the Dolphins were founded in 1966. Do the math.

I wasn't serious asshat, I just wanted to know exactly how long it was if you idiots were going to take my overexaggeration literally.

[Slipknot]

I wasn't serious asshat, I just wanted to know exactly how long it was if you idiots were going to take my overexaggeration literally.
Lol, asshat.

[Brodie Bruce]

Oh man, I was so righter than Cheshire.

[Slipknot]

Oh man, I was so righter than Cheshire.
Indeed you were, only five years off while Cheshire was thirty five years off. :(

[TheCheshireCat]

Indeed you were, only five years off while Cheshire was thirty five years off. :(

It was just a random large number...It's still 60+ years longer

[TheCheshireCat]

Oh man, I was so righter than Cheshire.

First time

[Illchill]

Yea, the Boston Braves and the Boston Bean-Eaters.

[Go Web Go!]

Nice one: Kevin Brown broke his left hand after punching a wall earlier tonight. DOOORK!

[Illchill]

Hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

[Slipknot]

Why did he do that? Wtf? I am listening to it on ESPN now.

[Illchill]

Again...

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!Someone tell me, I aint turning on TV now.

[Illchill]

Heh, and tweaked his ankle. El Duque, Mussina, Vasquez, Loaiza, and Sturtze. How frightening.

[J-Bones]

10 in a row for the Sox!!!! WOOT WOOT!

[Illchill]

WOOT WOOT indeed my brotha.

[J-Bones]

When the hell is Ortiz coming back? tomorrow maybe?

[Illchill]

Maybe. it was 1-2 days originally, but we are unstoppable now, give him 1-2 MORE days, at least 1. Don't hurry him.

[J-Bones]

oh god no, no rushing for Big Popa.

Now the thing I'm wondering about is, with the possibility of Trot coming back soon, are they going to get him on that suspension he was supposed to get due to the whole Varitek/A-Rod thing back in the last series against the Yanks....

[Slipknot]

Now the thing I'm wondering about is, with the possibility of Trot coming back soon, are they going to get him on that suspension he was supposed to get due to the whole Varitek/A-Rod thing back in the last series against the Yanks....
Kapler and Nixon appealed the suspension and won... they don't have to take the suspension now.

[J-Bones]

ahhh soo.....

hey how many Bo Sox fans we got here? aside from Slipknot, Illchill and myself...

[Illchill]

A good amount, where you live in Mass J-Bones? Near Boston?

[Spider_man96]

I'm actually an Expos fan. Go ahead laugh. I laugh at myself sometimes to.

[J-Bones]

A good amount, where you live in Mass J-Bones? Near Boston?

Out in Billerica......or as us natives call it "Bricca"

[Illchill]

Ha. Cool.

And sry bout that Spider-Man.Really sorry:(

[Spider_man96]

Lol i live there so i mean im one of the about 1000 people who support them. Were more hockey Here. Go Habs

[Illchill]

Thanx for Orlando BTW;)

[Slipknot]

Out in Billerica......or as us natives call it "Bricca"
I live in Woburn... heh, pretty damn close.

[Illchill]

You told me Boston foo! *Smack*

[Slipknot]

You told me Boston foo! *Smack*
No I didn't, we compared directions and everything... you also said how you came through my city a couple of times before...

[Illchill]

Oh. Woburn is my auntie's old place. Tough neighborhood. Hope you be packin heat home slizzle.

[Illchill]

Bonds-697.

[Illchill]

Sox still 2 1/2 back. And here comes NFL season. Gonna be a fun month and a half or so with the Sox AND Pats.

[Lord Nemesis]

I sent you a trade Illchill.

[Spider_man96]

October is the best month for sports. Almost everysingle sport is going on in october. I can't wait for next week so we can finally get some football back. And does ne1 kow if the Nhl will infact go on strike this year?

[Illchill]

Nemisis, although a 4-1 deal seems tempting, I NEED a starting RB, not a bunch of backups.

[Assassin32]

So.....Evander Holifield is getting another shot at the Heavyweight Championship.:(

[Omega Red]

So.....Evander Holifield is getting another shot at the Heavyweight Championship.:(


Isnt he like 50

[TheCheshireCat]

Man the Yankees are such pricks. Quit being cheating babies. THERE WAS A HURRICANE.

[Omega Red]

Man the Yankees are such pricks. Quit being cheating babies. THERE WAS A HURRICANE.


Their demand for a forefit was denied :) :)

[TheCheshireCat]

Yeah I know, but seriously you've won 26 times, cry me a river and I'll drown you in it you bunch of New York *****es.

[Edd Extraordinaire]

So.....Evander Holifield is getting another shot at the Heavyweight Championship.:(

And he'll probably win too.

[Illchill]

Yea, Yankees are getting desperate.

[Go Web Go!]

Speaking of that damn hurricane, it's a damn shame that the Marlins are going to have to go up to Chicago and play a couple double headers against the Cubs instead of having a homestand of their own like originally planned. I didn't have any tickets for the series, but damn, I hope those fans that did get their money back or are able to use their tickets at any of the remaining home games. :cool:

[TheCheshireCat]

Yeah I have some tickets..I haven't called Ticket Master yet though..=(

[Edd Extraordinaire]

Screw Florida. No offense, but they've killed my Phillies, heh.

[Go Web Go!]

Screw Florida. No offense, but they've killed my Phillies, heh.

I'll let it slide because it's true, ;)

[TheCheshireCat]

Screw Florida. No offense, but they've killed my Phillies, heh.

I love Phillie. Whenever the Marlins are doing ****ty all we need is a nice long series against the Phils! :daredevil

[Go Web Go!]

Looks like they own the Mets as well, ;)

[TheCheshireCat]

The Mets are our *****es. 8 in a row biatch

[Assassin32]

And he'll probably win too.

Yeah, but only because Brewster is the worst champ ever.

[Edd Extraordinaire]

I love Phillie. Whenever the Marlins are doing ****ty all we need is a nice long series against the Phils! :daredevil


Hehe.

[PoAnTimRSexi]

Pending a physical, the Rams have traded RB Lamar Gordon to the Dolphins for a 3rd round pick(not yet specified if it will be the Fins' 3rd round pick, or the 3rd round pick acquire for Ogunleye). Travis Minor will be the starting running back in week 1, but the Dolphins feel with more preperation Gordon will have the starting job after that.

I think its a good trade, if it goes through. Steven Jackson is looking like a stud in the pre-season, and for a guy who looks and runs just like Ricky Williams, he shouldn't have a lot of trouble succeeding Marshall Faulk. As for the Dolphins, they get a runningback with starting experience who can catch out of the backfield, not a bad pickup.

Football season is a little more than 24 hours away... i can taste it *****es, i can taste it

[tomahawk53]

Ok SHH football fans it's time to put up or shut up.

Join the Pigskin Pool at USA Today.com and make your weekly predictions on who's gonna beat who each week in the NFL.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/pigskinpool/default.aspx
League name is: Superherohype


(You may need to sign up for an MSN passport if you don't already have one.)

[Go Web Go!]

Dolphins and Titans moved to Saturday at 1pm ET thanks to that damn hurricane! :mad:

[Illchill]

Lets go Pats. WHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

[J-Bones]

just need four wins in a row and the pats have the record baby!!!!

[TheCheshireCat]

Go Colts. Sik wit it!

[TheCheshireCat]

288 Passes is pretty incredible but it was fun seeing it end :)

[PoAnTimRSexi]

Good game, good game. I hope Peyton calls Vanderjagt an idiot kicker again.

[Slipknot]

Go Colts. Sik wit it!
Heh.

[Jennifer Lopez]

Go Colts. Sik wit it!
288 Passes is pretty incredible but it was fun seeing it end :)
You are pure evil. :up:

That was a cool game.

[Illchill]

Great game. Keep reeling 'em off baby. Brady looked fantastic, and finally got the numbers to refelect his ability for once. Oh man, what is it with Colts and goal liness tand agtainst us? Or any short yardage against us?

[Jennifer Lopez]

Meh, Brady has been having the numbers to reflect his ability. Here's some:
32-29, 24-14, 17-14, 31-0, 21-16, 27-13, 12-0, 38-34, 23-20, 12-0, 30-26, 9-3, 19-13, etc. :up:

[Slipknot]

Miami looks really bad right now.

[Slipknot]

They should have went for it on 4th and 1.

[Ca$tro]

does anyone talk about football around here (soccer to you americans) if you do i support villa

[Go Web Go!]

Miami looks really bad right now.

Did you expect something else? :cool:

[Slipknot]

Did you expect something else? :cool:
Not as bad as that.

[TheCheshireCat]

They need to leave Feeley in, he was twice as good as Fiedler, the INT wasn't his fault(when you're almost sacked like 5 plays in a row it can happen when you have no experience), and if McMichael hadn't dropped that one pass which was bull**** I can't believe they challenged that, he would've scored a TD and at least made the loss 17-14. Our defense look incredible...if we had any sort of offense I don't know how anyone could compete with us, but it's like the defense makes them go 3 and out and the offense throws an Int for a touchdown..what you gonna do?

[Go Web Go!]

Well, there you go. Feeley was named the starter for next Sunday's game at Cincinnati.

[PoAnTimRSexi]

Best game of McNabb's career, 3 TD's for Owens, 100+ rushing for Westbrook. Good day, I'd say.

Run defense was suspect, granted most of the yards came off of Tiki's 75 yard TD run when we had 3 down-lineman running a prevent defense. The Eagles have been bad on opening day under Andy Reid, but they simply dominated today. They could improve in some areas, of course... they need to have better run support on first contact. Barber, and especially Ron Dayne, got extra yardage after breaking the first tackle. Our under-sized linebackers need to wrap up the initial tackles in run support. Other than that, I don't have too many gripes. We beat a mediocre(at best) Giants team, but I'm still happy with the results. T.O. opened up single coverage for guys like Todd Pinkston, and Pinkston responded by blowing by his defender for a 53 yard reception. This offense has the potential to be downright scary. Westbrook was utilized perfectly, resting him enough that he was still fresh enough to be a homerun threat. If he continues to average 15-18 carries a game, he will be just as explosive as last year.

The real test comes next week, no doubt. Our young corners(with backup from our great safeties) will need to defend the seemingly indefensible Randy Moss. Dominating an average NY Giants team felt good, but it's not a barometer of this team's skill. Beating a good, possibly very good, Minnesota team would be.

(By the way, we lost 1st round pick Shawn Andrews for the season. I feel really bad for the kid, he's got a great future... but fortunately, the Eagles have great depth at the OG position. Artis Hicks could start on any team in the league, and we signed former Colts starter Steve Scuillo for extra depth. Here's to a good recovery for Tank Andrews.)

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/IPHHLKHDNBNM/NYG_PHI_411_DH.jpg

[TheCheshireCat]

Giants suck :)

This was a very weird football week...Curtis Martin does well, McNabb does well(that's right I said it *****), seemingly the Redskins Broncos trade was excellent for both teams, jamal got nothing against cleveland. :confused:

[PoAnTimRSexi]

Giants suck :)

This was a very weird football week...Curtis Martin does well, McNabb does well(that's right I said it *****), seemingly the Redskins Broncos trade was excellent for both teams, jamal got nothing against cleveland. :confused:

Agreed... but thats the NFL... nothing is predictable. Just ask my pick 'em league. :(

[Supergirl]

I love Grif! I have no doubts now that the Portis/Bailey trade was an awesome deal for us :)

[reggiebar]

Enought to win 2 Superbowls in 3 years...look I HATE the Pats (as you know I am a Miami fan), but I simply can not deny what Brady brings to the table as a QB.

Bottom line, Tom Brady is the Derek Jeter of football. Unless someone likes the team that eiether one of these guys plays for, that person is going to through out stats about other players that play the position in an attempt to discredit just how impaortant these guys are for their team and their team's success. People, like yourself, can throw out names and stats of Tejada, Mike Young, Guillen, and Rollins, but when reporters ask the managers in baseball who they would want playing short on their team, the majority of them say Derek Jeter because of the intangibles combined with the talent that he brings - he is a winner and therefore one of the best, if not the best. The same holds true for Tom Brady. People can throw out the stats of the Trent Green's, Dante Culpepper's, etc... but ask any coach who they want leading a late 4th quarter drive in the playoffs or the Superbowl and you think they will say Trent Green or Dante Culpepper? Please, Tom Brady is the answer. Much like Derek Jeter, Brady's greatness is not measured by mere stats, but by the other intangibles that they bring to their teams and how viatl they are to their team's success - period. You can't deny that Brady is one the best QBs in football the same way you can't deny Derek Jeter is one the best shortstops in baseball as their is a thing called "clutch" and both of these cats are as about as "clutch" as they come. Player hate all you want, but you can't argue with the results - period.

Actually I'd like jake Delhomme in a 4th quarter drive, doesn't mean I want him as my QB. The point is: Tom Brady is not the best QB in football. That's what we were discussing. Given the chance to have any QB for free, very few people would take Tom Brady 1st 2nd or even 3rd. They'd probably take Culpepper, Manning, and McNair/Green or someone. While Brady is a winner, his defense and special teams won a good portion of those games. You can't deny the Pats have the best, or possibly the second best(best from a fantasy perspective) defense in football and that definitally creates opporunities that wouldn't normally arise. I think it's much harder to win when you're Trent Green and everytime you score a TD your defense allows a TD.



You are going to have to rethink your whack opinion on Tom Brady Bro - as it now can not be denied that Brady is one of the NFL's best QBs - period.

[Brodie Bruce]

ooh, ooh, it hurts when the Packers do so good

[TheCheshireCat]

You are going to have to rethink your whack opinion on Tom Brady Bro - as it now can not be denied that Brady is one of the NFL's best QBs - period.

That's a very broad term. Specify what number you think he is.

[TheCheshireCat]

People better than him:

Culpepper. Do I need to explain this? Even though he has Randy Moss, he still throws like Vlad and has been hitting his lesser targets.

Peyton Manning. MVP.

McNair. MVP.

Trent Green. Has a lousy receiving corps like Pats, but the difference is: this guy has to fight against his own defense because they allow so many points. You can say he has Priest Holmes, but Priest doesn't have many runs over 30 yards, so while he gets yards, Green is still throwing for 4k.

[reggiebar]

People better than him:

Culpepper. Do I need to explain this? Even though he has Randy Moss, he still throws like Vlad and has been hitting his lesser targets.

Peyton Manning. MVP.

McNair. MVP.

Trent Green. Has a lousy receiving corps like Pats, but the difference is: this guy has to fight against his own defense because they allow so many points. You can say he has Priest Holmes, but Priest doesn't have many runs over 30 yards, so while he gets yards, Green is still throwing for 4k.

Culpepper - The Vikings fade so fast at the end of each season it is silly

Peyton - When was the last time Peyton beat Brady in a game?

McNair - I can't really knock this cat

Green - Playoff performance?

Seriously, stats do not mean everything...Bottom line, Tom Brady beats great teams by having great games against those teams. If you watched the Indy/Pats game on Thursday, you can't claim Brady is not one of the game's best (I hate saying this as I hate the Pats but Brady is the man).

[PoAnTimRSexi]

Well, if you're arguing bare skills, you can't say Brady is better than Manning or Culpepper. Or even lower-tier guys like Hasselbeck and Brooks. But Brady knows that system inside out, he knows how to utilize their strengths and downplay their weaknesses, and he's a pure-bread winner. Does that make him the league's best QB? Not by my standards, but I guess its all personal preference.

[reggiebar]

Well, if you're arguing bare skills, you can't say Brady is better than Manning or Culpepper. Or even lower-tier guys like Hasselbeck and Brooks. But Brady knows that system inside out, he knows how to utilize their strengths and downplay their weaknesses, and he's a pure-bread winner. Does that make him the league's best QB? Not by my standards, but I guess its all personal preference.
Please, are you going to tell me that Joe Montana had the best "bare skills" or even Top 5 in the NFL in the 80s? Of course not.

"Bare skills" means jack in sports unless that athlete actually uses those bare skills to guide his team to wins - period.

BTW, how many of you actually played football in your lives, because from the way many of you debate this QB comparison, it seems you have never played the sport or you would know that the mental part of playing QB is equally, if not more important, than pure physical gifts. A guy can have all the talent in the world, but if he makes the wrong decesions, he is a bad QB - period. Aaron Brooks? Please, the cat makes more decesions in one game than Brady does all year.

[PoAnTimRSexi]

You can't judge mentality from watching a game, like you can judge physical skills. Thats why analysts rank players more for physical skill than mind for the game. I have to play football to have an opinion on players? Thats news to me. Peyton Manning still manages a game like no one else in today's NFL, but since he hasn't won a big game, he can't be considered the best? With the exception of deceiving mobility, Manning is the best QB in the league physically, statistically and (by my perception) mentally. That certainly meets MY standards to be considered the best QB in the league.

You don't have to be a great QB to win a Super Bowl. Recent examples: Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. Both stepped in lucky piles of ****, in systems where they just had to resist making mistakes to win games. Great QB's don't always win in the post-season, either. The only important example: Dan Marino.

[reggiebar]

I have to play football to have an opinion on players?

Yes, you had to have played football to truly understand the game.

[reggiebar]

You don't have to be a great QB to win a Super Bowl. Recent examples: Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.

Neither one of them had the Fourth quarter drives like Tom Brady in both the playoffs and in the Superbowl - big difference.

[PoAnTimRSexi]

Yes, you had to have played football to truly understand the game.

My dad, and a few of my friends play(ed) High School football... and they don't have a better understanding of the game than me. The gap between high school football and the NFL is a wide one, and I fail to see how someone would know the NFL better than someone else because they played a few games of high school football. I play tackle football in the park with my friends all the time, it doesn't change my outlook on the game. The gap between park football and high school football is a lot less wide than the gap between HS and the NFL.

70% of today's NFL analysts never played football. They're getting paid to watch games and express their opinions. If they don't "truly understand" the game, then maybe I don't want to either, because thats a pretty cushy job.

[PoAnTimRSexi]

Neither one of them had the Fourth quarter drives like Tom Brady in both the playoffs and in the Superbowl - big difference.

Don't get me wrong, I am in NO WAY saying Dilfer or Johnson are better than Brady. They were just examples that Super Bowl rings should not be the "end-all-be-all" of deciding the caliber of a football player.

[TheCheshireCat]

Yes, you had to have played football to truly understand the game.


That doesn't even make sense.

Tom Brady has the best defense in the league. Just because the Patriots defense beats Manning, and Tom Brady beats the ****ty Colts defense, and that somehow makes Tom Brady better? He has the best defense in the league. Trent Dilfer won when the Ravens had the best D in the league. Your argument sucks.

[Slipknot]

Tom Brady has the best defense in the league. Just because the Patriots defense beats Manning
Wtf are you talking about? Did you even watch the game last thursday night? The Colts walk over every defense and they beat out defense too... they did the same thing in the playoffs, our defense is not the best.
and Tom Brady beats the ****ty Colts defense, and that somehow makes Tom Brady better?
Brady threw for 335 yards with 3 touchdowns against the Colts, he single handedly won the game for us. Do you understand that? Oh yeah, he was hurt too while playing.
He has the best defense in the league.
No he doesn't, don't be a moron, giving up 24 points is not being the best defense in the league.
Trent Dilfer won when the Ravens had the best D in the league. Your argument sucks.
Pfft, now you are just being a complete moron. Dilfer was alright for one year, while Brady has been consistently great since 2001 to this point in time. Dilfer had one of the greatest defenses ever assembled behind him and played a Giants team that had some big weaknesses. Your arguement sucks.