Superman vs. Captain Marvel

[The Leaguer]

The homophobia in this thread is sickening.

[TheCorpulent1]

I know, there's not nearly enough of it.

[marcofthebeast]

The homophobia in this thread is sickening.

Should we turn it up a notch?

[TheCorpulent1]

It needs at least three notches.

[KAD]

I won't comment on the sexual overtones of Alan's weakness for wood.

The only readers that find all these overtones are those that are obssessed with Homosexuality.

When you look into the void.......

[chuckymack]

Using your logic, Spider-Man could beat the Hulk just by wrapping his hands around a sedated Bruce Banner's jaw, correct? *shudders*
Idiot. Billy Batson and Captain Marvel are the same person only in the sense that they can't share a plane of existence.
Whomever wrote that DC/Marvel crossover had no idea that Captain Marvel can move upwards of the speed of light. That HUGE speed advantage gives him the edge over Thor.
Also, in Day of Vengeance, Cap nearly kills Superman once again before the wizard interjects.
Since the source of Captain Marvel's power is magic, anything he does is magical. When he punches Supes, guess what?
It's a magic punch, therefore Superman is highly vulnerable to it.


And I'm not saying John's not A Green Lantern. He is. He's just not THE Green Lantern.

[KAD]

I was never a big fan of the different lanterns but recently they have grown on me because of the different approaches they use.

Kyle: Imaginative
Guy: Force
Stewart: Engineering
Hal: Will

[incubat]

Using your logic, Spider-Man could beat the Hulk just by wrapping his hands around a sedated Bruce Banner's jaw, correct? *shudders*
Idiot. Billy Batson and Captain Marvel are the same person only in the sense that they can't share a plane of existence.
Whomever wrote that DC/Marvel crossover had no idea that Captain Marvel can move upwards of the speed of light. That HUGE speed advantage gives him the edge over Thor.
Also, in Day of Vengeance, Cap nearly kills Superman once again before the wizard interjects.
Since the source of Captain Marvel's power is magic, anything he does is magical. When he punches Supes, guess what?
It's a magic punch, therefore Superman is highly vulnerable to it.


And I'm not saying John's not A Green Lantern. He is. He's just not THE Green Lantern.

so....according to your logic and reasoning, wally is not THE flash?

[chuckymack]

Nope. Bart is.

[Darthphere]

LMAO! No, really?

[incubat]

your reasoning is awesome...so in that case kyle rayner, guy gardner, john stewart and hal jordan, all are THE green lantern?...i'm getting dizzy

[chuckymack]

At least Wally's been the main character in a book titled 'The Flash'. When has John ever been the central protagonist in a book called 'Green Lantern'?
John Stewart is as much THE Green Lantern as Beta Ray Bill is THE Thor.

[Darthphere]

At least Wally's been the main character in a book titled 'The Flash'. When has John ever been the central protagonist in a book called 'Green Lantern'?
John Stewart is as much THE Green Lantern as Beta Ray Bill is THE Thor.


Oh ****, those are some fighting words.

[chuckymack]

I'm talking about definitive versions here, pal. Maybe my assumption that you'd get that was wrong. Terry McGuinness was 'Batman' in a cartoon. Does that make him just as much Batman as Bruce Wayne?

[chuckymack]

I actually like Bill. I just know the difference between he and Thor.

[KAD]

I actually like Bill. I just know the difference between he and Thor.

But unlike the title Green Lantern, Thor refers to a person not a group.

So yes anyone serving the Oans with a ring is a GL

Because one Fireman makes a great save does that make every other FM a non-FM

[chuckymack]

Exactly. A Green Lantern. Not THE Green Lantern. John's a great character and all that, but, when people think of the Green Lantern, 80% of them think of Hal.

[Mistress Gluon]

Exactly. A Green Lantern. Not THE Green Lantern. John's a great character and all that, but, when people think of the Green Lantern, 80% of them think of Hal.


Actually, John is THE Green Lantern of pretty much wherever he is. Like Guy, like any other Lantern.

And when most people think of the Lantern anymore, it's pretty much Kyle.

And like I've said in the past, the vast majority of humans are idiots. I definitely wouldn't go around putting my faith in them.

[Darthphere]

Exactly. A Green Lantern. Not THE Green Lantern. John's a great character and all that, but, when people think of the Green Lantern, 80% of them think of Hal.


Who are these "people"? Every time I talk about Green lantern with casual friends they respond "Oh the black dude?" so yeah, I guess that says a lot.

[Mistress Gluon]

Who are these "people"? Every time I talk about Green lantern with casual friends they respond "Oh the black dude?" so yeah, I guess that says a lot.

That says they're racist, because they're looking for that.



Or kinky.

[marcofthebeast]

Or homophobic, because they don't think of the gay Green Lantern that is soon to be released. He totally loves wood.

[KAD]

Exactly. A Green Lantern. Not THE Green Lantern. John's a great character and all that, but, when people think of the Green Lantern, 80% of them think of Hal.

More of today's reader think Kyle.

My generation thinks Hal

[Darthphere]

That says they're racist, because they're looking for that.



Or kinky.


No, they just watch JLU and dont bother learning his name.

[Mistress Gluon]

No, they just watch JLU and dont bother learning his name.

At least they accomplish that much?

[CanaryFan]

Everbody knows Alan is THE Green Lantern! Everyone else is just a copycat.

[incubat]

i think of kyle as green lantern more than of hal

[incubat]

btw, i get your point chuckymack, but hal hasn't been the lantern for a long time, so you can't expect everybody to back you up on that, and the jlu IS a great show

[TheCorpulent1]

Everbody knows Alan is THE Green Lantern! Everyone else is just a copycat.
Preach it.

[The Leaguer]

More of today's reader think Kyle.

My generation thinks Hal
Your generation is obsolete. Go to bed, grampa.

[Mistress Gluon]

Your generation is obsolete. Go to bed, grampa.

Outmodded, inefficient, and an anchor is the politically correct term.

[Vic Von Doom]

Alan Scott is not THE Green Lantern. His weakness is wood. I could beat Alan Scott with a piece of firewood. I could beat Alan Scott and the Martian Manhunter with a wooden match, to go you one better...but I digress. How about Alan Scott, the Manhunter, the Atom, and Hawkman...with a wooden match and a laser pointer??

Sorry...but c'mon. He's a real cool guy and all, but I'm 22 and I think Hal Jordan is the man. I like Kyle Rayner, but I think the whole Ion thing is stupid. So it's not a generational thing, I love Hal.

And all Captain Marvel is is a big-time direct Superman ripoff. Didn't DC sue whatever company had Marvel and win? Superman is vulnerable to magic, it's true, but Captain Marvel is vulnerable to Kryptonian punches in the jaw.

And to whoever said it, if Bruce Banner triggered his transformation to the Hulk verbally, Spider-Man WOULD beat him if he held his hand over Banner's mouth. So there.

[The Leaguer]

Hal Jordan is the woman. He is not a man. He is a pussy.

[Vic Von Doom]

Hal Jordan is the woman. He is not a man. He is a pussy.

Wow, we're arguing about this in two separate threads. Any point? Eh. Agree to disagree, I suppose...you will never convince me that your angel guy is better than Hal and vice versa. Whatever.

[The Leaguer]

I do not agree to disagree, I agree to force you to agree with me. Agreed?

[Vic Von Doom]

I do not agree to disagree, I agree to force you to agree with me. Agreed?

Pfff. I don't get it. Did you read New Frontier? The Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan? Rebirth? He socked Batman in the jaw! He's the bravest man on Earth! In a Corps made up of the bravest men and women and whatevers on each planet, he's the greatest of them all, except when he's murdering the other ones...but that was just the one time and he's better now.

Oh! And he sacrificed his life to reignite the SUN! He saved the entire solar system!

[The Leaguer]

I was with you until Rebirth.

Rebirth f***ing sucks, and referencing it ruins any credility you had.

[KAD]

Your generation is obsolete. Go to bed, grampa.
And yours is irrelevant, not to mention rude.

[Vic Von Doom]

I was with you until Rebirth.

Rebirth f***ing sucks, and referencing it ruins any credility you had.

What sucks about it? Johns brought back a character that never should have gone away in the first place along with his archenemy, and did it in a way that didn't make people scratch their heads and say whaaaaa like the wacked out way Green Arrow came back, for instance.

But if you were with me til then, that means you enjoyed Jordan in LWAT and New Frontier...do you like the guy or not? Or do you just not like the way his solo book is going right now? Because I hate the Spider-Man books right now, but I don't call Spidey a pussy.

[The Leaguer]

I don't like the guy, and I hate the solo book.

Johns brought back a character that was boring when he was good, was a billion times more interesting a villain, and was ultimately better off dead, and did it in a way that insulted fans intelligence.

And yours is irrelevant, not to mention rude.
Mine is not irrelevant, because mine is right.

[KAD]

I don't like the guy, and I hate the solo book.

Johns brought back a character that was boring when he was good, was a billion times more interesting a villain, and was ultimately better off dead, and did it in a way that insulted fans intelligence.


Mine is not irrelevant, because mine is right.

Sure your right.

If you weren't such a block head you would realize that I was saying Kyle is considered The GL of today.

Personally I like Kilowog

[The Leaguer]

What does realizing that you said Kyle is considered the GL of today and you liking Kilowog have anything to do with what I said?

[Vic Von Doom]

I don't like the guy, and I hate the solo book.

Johns brought back a character that was boring when he was good, was a billion times more interesting a villain, and was ultimately better off dead, and did it in a way that insulted fans intelligence.


Mine is not irrelevant, because mine is right.

How did it insult fans intelligence? I didn't feel insulted and I liked the explanation of Parallax. It was a good way to explain Hal's insanity without retconning anything.

[KAD]

What does realizing that you said Kyle is considered the GL of today and you liking Kilowog have anything to do with what I said?

Lets see you make a snide comment because I mention that kyle is the considered the GL of Today and Hal more so by my generation.

I assume you made your snide remark because you support Kyle

I was pointing out that I was posting in support of Kyle but I really think Killowog is The GL

[Green Goblin 1964]

supes

[Toby_Temple]

And all Captain Marvel is is a big-time direct Superman ripoff. Didn't DC sue whatever company had Marvel and win? Superman is vulnerable to magic, it's true, but Captain Marvel is vulnerable to Kryptonian punches in the jaw.

Know your history there pal. Supes was just a jumping super strong guy when he was created while Cap was a flying one. So DC decided to copy Marvel's powers and put it to Supes. But Marvel was still more famous and his comics were selling more. That's why DC sued Fawcett comics. Fawcett conceded the legal battle coz of the decline of comics during there time and the legal issues was eating on their resources. And don't forget that Fawcett won the initial hearing. But DC continued their campaign to save their hero. They won in their appeal. But Fawcett comics decided to settle it with National(now DC) coz of the rapid decline of of comic sales in the 1950's. DC only won coz Fawcett conceded and not because Marvel was indeed a copy of Supes.

[TheCorpulent1]

What sucks about it? Johns brought back a character that never should have gone away in the first place along with his archenemy, and did it in a way that didn't make people scratch their heads and say whaaaaa like the wacked out way Green Arrow came back, for instance.
What was hard to understand about the way Green Arrow came back? I much preferred it to the yellow fear cockroach who's somehow as powerful as the Spectre but still too weak to stand up to a handful of GLs, and magically wipes away all of that pesky "taking personal responsibility for one's actions" thing.

Also, you just contradicted yourself. Captain Marvel is lame because he's a rip-off of Superman (which, in fact, he's not), since Superman came first? Wouldn't that make every Silver Age GL lame because they're rip-offs of the original GL Alan Scott?

[The Leaguer]

Lets see you make a snide comment because I mention that kyle is the considered the GL of Today and Hal more so by my generation.

I assume you made your snide remark because you support Kyle

I was pointing out that I was posting in support of Kyle but I really think Killowog is The GL
All my comments are snide, it's the only language I know.

You referred to your generation, so I referred to your generation. If you consider yourself an exception to your comment, then it would be safe to say you are excepted from mine.

Unless you like Hal Jordan, then you, too, are obsolete.

[Czar Colossus]

Captain Marvel is Superman's equal.
That is the dynamic of their relationship. It's this status that gives Cap a hallowed place in the DC Universe. It was a main plot device in one of comicdoms greatest stories, Kingdom Come.
I do like how they modified their relationship in First Thunder, having Superman find out that Cap's really just a kid right away and then sharing his identity with Billy. I'd like to see this explored more. Cap emulating Superman as the standard to meet makes absolute sense since he is the one superhuman that is Superman's equal. I hope that the relationship between the two can still be explored with Cap's recent developments.

[CanaryFan]

Know your history there pal. Supes was just a jumping super strong guy when he was created while Cap was a flying one. So DC decided to copy Marvel's powers and put it to Supes. But Marvel was still more famous and his comics were selling more. That's why DC sued Fawcett comics. Fawcett conceded the legal battle coz of the decline of comics during there time and the legal issues was eating on their resources. And don't forget that Fawcett won the initial hearing. But DC continued their campaign to save their hero. They won in their appeal. But Fawcett comics decided to settle it with National(now DC) coz of the rapid decline of of comic sales in the 1950's. DC only won coz Fawcett conceded and not because Marvel was indeed a copy of Supes.

Sorry but in the original case Captian Marvel was ruled a copyrite infringement but it was ruled that DC had abandoned thier copyrites due to failing to copyrite certain uses of Superman. In the appeal the copyrite abandonment was overturned and DC won outrite. They later bought the rites to the character and were sued by Marvel over the name. Marvel won so Dc has to publish Captian Marvel under the Shazam title.

[Whirlysplat]

Sorry but in the original case Captian Marvel was ruled a copyrite infringement but it was ruled that DC had abandoned thier copyrites due to failing to copyrite certain uses of Superman. In the appeal the copyrite abandonment was overturned and DC won outrite. They later bought the rites to the character and were sued by Marvel over the name. Marvel won so Dc has to publish Captian Marvel under the Shazam title.


Rites, so its religious am I right?

- Whirly

[Jplaya2023]

the real green lantern is the one in JLA he's canon

[Whirlysplat]

the real green lantern is the one in JLA he's canon

Your post makes no sense.

- Whirly

[KAD]

Your post makes no sense.

- Whirly

What else would you expect.

If he suddenly started making sense I would fall to my knees and beg forgivness for my transgressions as it would surely mark the coming of the end of days

[CanaryFan]

Rites, so its religious am I right?

- Whirly

Well the whole Shazam, power of the gods thing is mostly considered mythology today but originally it was religion.

Don't pick on my spelling or I'll pick on your punctuation:woot:.

[Whirlysplat]

Well the whole Shazam, power of the gods thing is mostly considered mythology today but originally it was religion.

Don't pick on my spelling or I'll pick on your punctuation:woot:.

Nothing wrong with my punctuation, most of the time. A lot of the time it's an elaborated code on here.

- Whirly

[The Leaguer]

Jplaya can't get enough of Superman love.

[chuckymack]

I'm 24, and most of my friends are around the same age. When any of us mention Green Lantern, we're referring to Hal. The rest of them are referred to by their first names. Hal's the only one we refer to as 'Green Lantern'. I've never met anyone who said 'Who, that black dude?' when I've referenced GL. Most of them say 'Never heard of 'im.'
My statements are based solely on personal experience, though.
As far as Captain Marvel goes, he and Billy Batson are NOT THE SAME PERSON. If you morons understood the concept of dichotomy, it'd be a lot easier to understand Superman getting owned by Captain Marvel, then nearly crushing Billy's jaw.
When Clark's writing a newspaper, he's still Superman underneath those glasses. When Billy's broadcasting the news, he's just a normal kid, or in Kingdom Come, adult.
Having said that, Spider-Man CANNOT beat the Hulk. He would have his way with Banner, however. Also; Supes CANNOT defeat Captain Marvel, but Billy Batson wouldn't even be a challenge.

[Darthphere]

I'm 24, and most of my friends are around the same age. When any of us mention Green Lantern, we're referring to Hal. The rest of them are referred to by their first names. Hal's the only one we refer to as 'Green Lantern'. I've never met anyone who said 'Who, that black dude?' when I've referenced GL. Most of them say 'Never heard of 'im.'
My statements are based solely on personal experience, though.


Exactly, but you state them as fact.

[Jplaya2023]

Your post makes no sense.

- Whirly

John Steward

[sethcohen]

John Stewart

[sethcohen]

and no... the real green lantern is:
A) Alan Scott, since he was the ORIGINAL Green Lantern in the DCU
or
B) Anyone who was chosen to wield a ring created by the Guardians, fueled by the Central Power battery on Oa and shaped by the willpower of the wielder

[Mistress Gluon]

What sucks about it? Johns brought back a character that never should have gone away in the first place along with his archenemy, and did it in a way that didn't make people scratch their heads and say whaaaaa like the wacked out way Green Arrow came back, for instance.

But if you were with me til then, that means you enjoyed Jordan in LWAT and New Frontier...do you like the guy or not? Or do you just not like the way his solo book is going right now? Because I hate the Spider-Man books right now, but I don't call Spidey a pussy.

Because Rebirth was a load of garbage. They turned Hal into a monster, which was cool, the best becoming the enemy like the man who trained him. Then he was the Spectre (which, sucked, because the only person more emo than him at that time was Kyle.), and then they brought him back? He could've REMAINED the Spectre, or just went out with Barry Allen.

[Mistress Gluon]

How did it insult fans intelligence? I didn't feel insulted and I liked the explanation of Parallax. It was a good way to explain Hal's insanity without retconning anything.

And Parralax? That was horrible. I liked the idea that the Guardians of Oa were smart enough to put a failsafe in the ring of lesser minded beings without it having to be some cosmic entity that shared emotions with a color, and made Hal out to be a squeaky clean hero again without it. Hal was better when he was actually human enough to become corruptable. Not when the only thing that could corrupt him was some sort of space god that actually could challenge the Guardians.

And it totally retconned the ring's weakness to yellow.

[Mistress Gluon]

I'm 24, and most of my friends are around the same age. When any of us mention Green Lantern, we're referring to Hal. The rest of them are referred to by their first names. Hal's the only one we refer to as 'Green Lantern'. I've never met anyone who said 'Who, that black dude?' when I've referenced GL. Most of them say 'Never heard of 'im.'
My statements are based solely on personal experience, though.
As far as Captain Marvel goes, he and Billy Batson are NOT THE SAME PERSON. If you morons understood the concept of dichotomy, it'd be a lot easier to understand Superman getting owned by Captain Marvel, then nearly crushing Billy's jaw.
When Clark's writing a newspaper, he's still Superman underneath those glasses. When Billy's broadcasting the news, he's just a normal kid, or in Kingdom Come, adult.
Having said that, Spider-Man CANNOT beat the Hulk. He would have his way with Banner, however. Also; Supes CANNOT defeat Captain Marvel, but Billy Batson wouldn't even be a challenge.

First, to the GL thing. Broaden your horizons, and your friends. I don't give a damn what YOU or your FRIENDS think. What you think doesn't make you right, it just means that's what you think. And I hardly believe you guys make up the representative sample of an entire planet. Especially if they've never heard of John Stewart.

As for Captain Marvel. You actually have to be more clear. If you (read:the moron you are trying to issue to others) were thinking, you'd say their POWERS are different. Because Billy's at the wheel under both persona's. And his powers are a PART of him permanantly. So whether he's plain old Billy, or the Captain, he's still BOTH, and the only thing that separates them is a word. When he's at the radio station, he's still Captain, when he's pulling a boulder off a dog, he's still Billy. So even then, being more clear, you'd have to say the basis of their powers.

And I don't know HOW that correlates into the Spider-Man/Hulk fight.

[incubat]

Pfff. I don't get it. Did you read New Frontier? The Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan? Rebirth? He socked Batman in the jaw! He's the bravest man on Earth! In a Corps made up of the bravest men and women and whatevers on each planet, he's the greatest of them all, except when he's murdering the other ones...but that was just the one time and he's better now.

Oh! And he sacrificed his life to reignite the SUN! He saved the entire solar system!

punching batman in the jaw doesn't make him that great you know? it's only because some stupid writer let him do that, bats would never allow it, AND bats punched him back. plus, hal killed the whole corps!!! how come everybody keeps forgetting that???? i know i know, i read rebirth too...but i still wouldn't forgive him, i prefer kyle:up:

[incubat]

First, to the GL thing. Broaden your horizons, and your friends. I don't give a damn what YOU or your FRIENDS think. What you think doesn't make you right, it just means that's what you think. And I hardly believe you guys make up the representative sample of an entire planet. Especially if they've never heard of John Stewart.

As for Captain Marvel. You actually have to be more clear. If you (read:the moron you are trying to issue to others) were thinking, you'd say their POWERS are different. Because Billy's at the wheel under both persona's. And his powers are a PART of him permanantly. So whether he's plain old Billy, or the Captain, he's still BOTH, and the only thing that separates them is a word. When he's at the radio station, he's still Captain, when he's pulling a boulder off a dog, he's still Billy. So even then, being more clear, you'd have to say the basis of their powers.

And I don't know HOW that correlates into the Spider-Man/Hulk fight.

you know, i support you with almost everything you are saying, but as far as i knew, captain and billy aren't the same person, they actually are different persons, it was explained in DKR2

[Harlekin]

DKR2 is out of contuinity. Billy and Captain Marvel are the same, as shown by almost everything but DKR2.

[incubat]

oh well...in that case...

[Jplaya2023]

John Stewart

no big deal you spell "carey" karey i spell it carrie

we all know what it is

[Mistress Gluon]

DKR2 is out of contuinity. Billy and Captain Marvel are the same, as shown by almost everything but DKR2.

Merci, monseiur. ;)

[incubat]

well, since billy and captain are the same...then wouldn't clark beating billy mean he also beated captain marvel?

[Harlekin]

Merci, monseiur. ;)
Aucun problème, I guess, madame. ;)

And no, beating Billy does not equate to beating Captain Marvel. That's like saying Hal Jordan without his GL ring is the same as beating Hal Jordan with the GL ring.

[incubat]

ok...well, then gimme a minute to process this logic

[Harlekin]

ok...well, then gimme a minute to process this logic
Billy Batson = Captain Marvel
Beating Billy Batson /= (does not equal) Beating Captain Marvel

Hal Jordan without GL Ring = Hal Jordan with GL Ring
Beating Hal Jordan without GL Ring /= Beating Hal with GL Ring

Or maybe a Marvel example would be better:
Billy Batson = Captain Marvel
Beating Billy Batson /= (does not equal) Beating Captain Marvel

Chris Powell = Darkhawk
Beating Chris Powell /= Beating Darkhawk

[incubat]

haha, don't worry, i got it

[Czar Colossus]

DKR2 is out of contuinity. Billy and Captain Marvel are the same, as shown by almost everything but DKR2.
Yeah; I like Miller, but I hated his interpretation of Captain Marvel!:down

[sethcohen]

which is why he hasnt worked on an in-continutiy title in how long?

[Mistress Gluon]

Aucun problème, I guess, madame. ;)

And no, beating Billy does not equate to beating Captain Marvel. That's like saying Hal Jordan without his GL ring is the same as beating Hal Jordan with the GL ring.

Mademoiselle. I'm neither married nor old. :(

[Harlekin]

Mademoiselle. I'm neither married nor old. :(
The only reason I didn't flunk French involves sexual favors so you'll have to forgive me. :(

[incubat]

oh làlà...sacre bleu

[Mistress Gluon]

The only reason I didn't flunk French involves sexual favors so you'll have to forgive me. :(

It's alright. *Hug.* :(


Though I find it wrong to circumvent schooling through such behaviour. :mad:

*Must remain resilient and firm as a personality. Or people won't think she's a b**ch through and through.*

[Harlekin]

Then you better not ask me who I got through math. :(

[Mistress Gluon]

Then you better not ask me who I got through math. :(

I'm going to assume you decided to sell popcorn and fig bars.

[incubat]

math.....my number one enemy....there should be like a superevil-math-man, the most powerfull villain ever

[Harlekin]

I'm going to assume you decided to sell popcorn and fig bars.
You know me so well. :D

[Mistress Gluon]

math.....my number one enemy....there should be like a superevil-math-man, the most powerfull villain ever


Math isn't anybody's enemy. People are just naturally scared of it.

It's really not so hard.


Anybody who can solve 5+x=8 can solve ANY math equation.

[incubat]

yeah, that's what my math teacher said...i almost didn't pass....but i guess i have some of those luck powers

[Mistress Gluon]

yeah, that's what my math teacher said...i almost didn't pass....but i guess i have some of those luck powers

Not luck. You just can't think of math as something tremendous. No mathmetician got anywhere thinking of future math.

[incubat]

that's actually kind of cool, you know, i allways wanted to be good at math and physics, but i guess numbers aren't my strenght, i'm more of a social and human sciences kind of person, i do respect mathematicians though

[Mistress Gluon]

that's actually kind of cool, you know, i allways wanted to be good at math and physics, but i guess numbers aren't my strenght, i'm more of a social and human sciences kind of person, i do respect mathematicians though

You can be good. It just takes dedication really.

[incubat]

yeah, but i'm over it now, i'm allready in college, and mymajor doesn't require more math classes

[Mistress Gluon]

yeah, but i'm over it now, i'm allready in college, and mymajor doesn't require more math classes


x.x Social sciences? One of the few sciences harder than physics?

[incubat]

well...it doesn't require that many numbers, other than statistics, but that isn't my major, it's actually journalism (allthough i might be changing it)

[Mistress Gluon]

well...it doesn't require that many numbers, other than statistics, but that isn't my major, it's actually journalism (allthough i might be changing it)

Stat might be something you don't really need unless you're doing heavy comparisons of teams or death rates or something. And even then, it's not that bad.

But don't stress changing your major.

I changed mine like eight times my first year of college.

[incubat]

where did you end up?

[Redwolf]

Oh dear!
Mortal means the opposite of Immortal. So a mortal is someone who could die. Can Superman die? YES. He already died, remember. So that makes Superman MORTAL.

Captain Marvel is the Mightiest Mortal. That technically means his stronger than any mortal there is, including Superman. Another reason why Superman will lose to Marvel is because of the nature of his powers, which are mystical in nature. Remember that one of Superman's weaknesses is mystical/magical powers. That alone is enough reason to believe that Captain Marvel can beat Superman anytime.


I cannot let this mis-information go unrefuted. If you don't like the fact I brought this topic back too bad so sad.

The above argument is quite stupid and here is why...

Captain Marvel is "Earth's" mightiest mortal..not the "universe's" mightiest mortal Toby. In other words Cap is the mightiest of the "humans". Superman is not a human which makes your argument a dud.

Not only that but Captain Marvel has the strength of Hercules...Hercules!!! Are you actually saying Superman is not as strong as Hercules!?...LOL. Superman's strength is far superior to Hercules which means he's stronger than Captain Marvel!. Remember that "Superman has powers BEYOND those of mortal men."

Lets not forget Superman has fought magical beings on par with Cap and even more powerful than Cap and come out on top.

As for Superman being "Mortal".

In canon, it's been established, hinted at, and thrown at us, that Superman is virtually immortal, in the truest sense of immortality. That is, he will never die a natural death.

Getting killed however, is entirely possible. He could be beaten to death, a la the doomsday fight, but also, the older he gets, the stronger and more resilient he becomes, so even this gets harder.

The longer he lives, the exponentially greater his life expectancy than becomes. The longer he is alive, the more solar energy he takes in. This further increases his body's resiliency, and efficiency, which then leads to his life expectancy increasing,w hich leads to his body becoming even more efficient, further staving off the breakdown of his body, which leads to even more solar energy absorption, which leads to an increase again in his life expactancy, and the cycle goes on and on. THe only way for him to grow old and die is to be away from any kind of yellow sunlight forever. In an environment with a yellow sun, he can not grow old and die.

[Redwolf]

But it was already proven that Superman is not made of steel. Get what I'm saying? Captain Marvel was shown capable of beating Superman when he wanted to,

-Of course it's possible to beat Superman in battle, no one is ubeatable not even Superman. Superman is also capable of beating Captain Marvel. It's logical to conclude that Superman should be able to defeat Cap since he is more powerful.





And where is Superman right now? In Krypton? LOL! He is in Earth, and even though he is in Earth, Marvel is still the World's(Earth's) Mightiest Mortal.

-As I said in the above post...Captain Marvel is "Earth's" mightiest mortal..not the "universe's" mightiest mortal Toby. In other words Cap is the mightiest of the "humans". Superman is not a human which makes your argument a dud. In Kingdom Come Marvel couldn't even survive the nuke blast while Superman did.

Not only that but Captain Marvel has the strength of Hercules...Hercules!!! Are you actually saying Superman is not as strong as Hercules!?...LOL. Superman's strength is far superior to Hercules which means he's stronger than Captain Marvel!. Remember that "Superman has powers BEYOND those of mortal men."


Superman constanly getting stronger? Right. Make up more imaginary abilities for Supes just to make an arguement. Marvel was the first super strong hero who can fly and move at amazing speed than Supes while Superman was just a high-jumping superhero until DC decided to copy Marvel's powers and add them to Supes.

You obvisously don't read Superman comics. If you did you'd realize Superman has grown in power since the 1986 reboot. Current Superman can..

Move at 99% the speed of light
Push the moon under normal power
Heat vision as hot a star
Invunerablity...Superman withstood at point blank range the Maggedon Warhead!!! This weapon has the power to destroy half a galaxy!!
He can fly into the sun with no problems

The powers above are what current 2007 Superman is capable of. Fifteen-to twenty years ago Superman wasn't capable of those feats. So you are wrong. Superman is getting stronger.



Nope. Superman can hurt himself if he punches a magical barrier and can be hurt by superstrong magical beings. His invulnerbility is useless against magic.[quote]

-Yet he has and is able to defeat magical beings...hmmm So much for the "His invunerability is useless against magic" remark.



[quote=Toby_Temple;9469064]Yes. And DC decided that Captain Marvel can beat him anytime if he wanted to. Case close, fanboy.:up:

Yet when the two battle Captain Marvel doesn't defeat Superman. In Kingdom Come Superman outran Marvels bolt to turn him back into Billy. Which showed Superman was holding back up to that point. In Superman/Batman after Marvel ranted on about being able to beat Superman, Superman uses his heat vision on Marvel.

[Redwolf]

Why does everybody think SM is stronger.

And the only reason SM might be more experienced is because DC put CM on the shelf. SM was created in '38 and CM was created in '39. CM is like the second or third oldest Comicbook hero ever.

Because Superman IS stronger. Cap's strength is that of Hercules. Superman's strength is far superior to Hercules.

That has nothing to do with exeperience. Think of it this way, how long as Billy Batson been Captain Marvel in current continuity? Compared to how long Clark has been Superman? In current continuity Clark became Superman at 25. After Superman showed up other heroes began to emerge. For instance Batman showed up months after Superman, aswell as Green Lantern. Currently in the comics Superman is what around 29-35 years of age? Which means he's had a few years of super hero experience. Billy Batson (before the infinite crisis) was still a kid. He had been Captain Marvel far shorter than Clark had been Superman.

[Redwolf]

The current versions of each character right now. Superman would get spanked like a lil *****.

Can Captain Marvel move at 99% the speed of light?

Can Captain Marvel survive the Maggedon Warhead, which is capable of destroying half a galaxy?

Is Caps strength..(which is equal to Hercules) higher than Superman.

The answer to the questions above is no. Current Cap would put up a decent fight but he wouldn't defeat Superman.

[Toby_Temple]

I cannot let this mis-information go unrefuted. If you don't like the fact I brought this topic back too bad so sad.

The above argument is quite stupid and here is why...

Captain Marvel is "Earth's" mightiest mortal..not the "universe's" mightiest mortal Toby. In other words Cap is the mightiest of the "humans". Superman is not a human which makes your argument a dud.

Superman is on Earth as well and is an Earth-base hero. Still, Marvel retains the title.

Not only that but Captain Marvel has the strength of Hercules...Hercules!!! Are you actually saying Superman is not as strong as Hercules!?...LOL. Superman's strength is far superior to Hercules which means he's stronger than Captain Marvel!. Remember that "Superman has powers BEYOND those of mortal men."

LOL. Read the comics again bud. When those two fight you won't see any difference. And Marvel already stated that he could beat Supes anytime if he wanted to.

Lets not forget Superman has fought magical beings on par with Cap and even more powerful than Cap and come out on top.

A review on logic: A winning against B does not mean A would also win against C coz B won against C.

As for Superman being "Mortal".

In canon, it's been established, hinted at, and thrown at us, that Superman is virtually immortal, in the truest sense of immortality. That is, he will never die a natural death.

Getting killed however, is entirely possible. He could be beaten to death, a la the doomsday fight, but also, the older he gets, the stronger and more resilient he becomes, so even this gets harder.

Idiot's guide to the word IMMORTAL: immortal - a being that could not die; eternal; everlasting.

The longer he lives, the exponentially greater his life expectancy than becomes. The longer he is alive, the more solar energy he takes in. This further increases his body's resiliency, and efficiency, which then leads to his life expectancy increasing,w hich leads to his body becoming even more efficient, further staving off the breakdown of his body, which leads to even more solar energy absorption, which leads to an increase again in his life expactancy, and the cycle goes on and on. THe only way for him to grow old and die is to be away from any kind of yellow sunlight forever. In an environment with a yellow sun, he can not grow old and die.

You're in a state of pure denial. Remember that Doomsday killed him even under the environment with a yellow sun. Remember also that kryptonite can kill him as well in such an environment.

[Redwolf]

Superman is on Earth as well and is an Earth-base hero. Still, Marvel retains the title.



LOL. Read the comics again bud. When those two fight you won't see any difference. And Marvel already stated that he could beat Supes anytime if he wanted to.



A review on logic: A wins over B does not mean A would win against C.



Idiot's guide to the word IMMORTAL: immortal - a being that could not die; eternal; everlasting.

[color=black]

You're in a state of pure denial. Remember that Doomsday killed him even under the environment with a yellow sun. Remember also that kryptonite can kill him as well in such an environment.

No he doesn't because Marvel is "Earth's" mightiest mortal. For you to conclude the Marvel is the mightiest, you would have to come to the conclusion Caps strength (which is the same as Hercules) is superior to Supermans. Which isn't the case, Superman's strength is superior to Caps. Yes Cap is the mightiest "earth/human" mortal..hence the catch phrase. He is not the mightiest "mortal" is that were the case his title would be "The mightiest mortal", but it's not it's "Earth's" mightiest mortal.

You know it's funny because if you read Superman/Batman #5 you'd know that...

"Superman explains what has happened in a quick monologue: He and Batman allowed Hawkman and Captain Marvel to think they had bested them in order to give Katana and Power Girl the time and opportunity to track down the boy in Tokyo. At the first chance, the two heroes bested their captors and disguised themselves as them in order to approach the White House without incident."

So there you go proof Superman LET Marvel beat him...LOL From now on you can no longer use Superman/Batman #5

The logic holds Superman has fought plenty of magical beings and won. You are trying to put forth an argument that Supes can't win against Marvel because one of Supes weakness is magic. This isn't true.

Did you read what I posted? I said "In the truest sence of immortality" Superman is immortal.

I CLEARLY stated

"Getting killed however, is entirely possible. He could be beaten to death, a la the doomsday fight, but also, the older he gets, the stronger and more resilient he becomes, so even this gets harder."

He was defeated by Doomsday because Doomsday was (at the time) his physical equal. Not to mention that 1992 Superman was much much weaker than current 2007 Superman. In 1992 that was only 6 years after the reboot. Have you seen Superman's latest battles with Doomsday? Superman defeats Doomsday every time now. Why..because he's grown in power, hence my original argument. The longer Superman absorbs the rays of the yellow sun the more powerful he gets, and the more difficult it is to defeat him.

Remember in the Lord of the Rings trilogy? The elves were called the "immortals" because they can't die from old age. Yet they were being killed in battle. There is more than one "version" of the term immortal.

[Toby_Temple]

Can Captain Marvel move at 99% the speed of light?

http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=a8c37_capflash2.jpg[/URL]

Can Captain Marvel survive the Maggedon Warhead, which is capable of destroying half a galaxy?

http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvel9a109gm3re.gif (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11366243)

Is Caps strength..(which is equal to Hercules) higher than Superman.

[URL]http://img137.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc24&image=5175d_capvesupes2l.jpg

http://img137.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc24&image=5175d_capvesupes2l.jpg

http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61f64_posz4.jpg

The answer to the questions above is no. Current Cap would put up a decent fight but he wouldn't defeat Superman.

WRONG! :oldrazz:

[Toby_Temple]

No he doesn't because Marvel is "Earth's" mightiest mortal. For you to conclude the Marvel is the mightiest, you would have to come to the conclusion Caps strength (which is the same as Hercules) is superior to Supermans. Which isn't the case, Superman's strength is superior to Caps. Yes Cap is the mightiest "earth/human" mortal..hence the catch phrase. He is not the mightiest "mortal" is that were the case his title would be "The mightiest mortal", but it's not it's "Earth's" mightiest mortal.

Earth means Earth. If Superman is indeed mightier then he would have the title.

You know it's funny because if you read Superman/Batman #5 you'd know that...

"Superman explains what has happened in a quick monologue: He and Batman allowed Hawkman and Captain Marvel to think they had bested them in order to give Katana and Power Girl the time and opportunity to track down the boy in Tokyo. At the first chance, the two heroes bested their captors and disguised themselves as them in order to approach the White House without incident."

So there you go proof Superman LET Marvel beat him...LOL From now on you can no longer use Superman/Batman #5

If you really read Superman/Batman #5 then you would have read Superman admitting that Captain Marvel, due to the nature of his powers, has the edge over him toe to toe.

The logic holds Superman has fought plenty of magical beings and won. You are trying to put forth an argument that Supes can't win against Marvel because one of Supes weakness is magic. This isn't true.

It is true. Someone with Marvel's capabilities can capitalize on such an advantage. Only DC's bias allow someone like Luthor or anyone with a decent intelligence to fail in using such knowledge in proper use.

Did you read what I posted? I said "In the truest sence of immortality" Superman is immortal.

The truest sense of immortality means you cannot die whether you like it or not no matter what the cause.

I CLEARLY stated

"Getting killed however, is entirely possible. He could be beaten to death, a la the doomsday fight, but also, the older he gets, the stronger and more resilient he becomes, so even this gets harder."

That alone contradicts your claim the Supes is immortal. And even though he grows stronger his weaknesses remain.

He was defeated by Doomsday because Doomsday was (at the time) his physical equal. Not to mention that 1992 Superman was much much weaker than current 2007 Superman. In 1992 that was only 6 years after the reboot. Have you seen Superman's latest battles with Doomsday? Superman defeats Doomsday every time now. Why..because he's grown in power, hence my original argument. The longer Superman absorbs the rays of the yellow sun the more powerful he gets, and the more difficult it is to defeat him.

You sure about that? Doomsday can't be killed by Supes anymore. Hell, even the stronger Supes got his arm broken by Doomsday in one of their rematch.

Remember in the Lord of the Rings trilogy? The elves were called the "immortals" because they can't die from old age. Yet they were being killed in battle. There is more than one "version" of the term immortal.

Like I give a damn. Immortal means immortal, someone who cannot and will never die. Any being that can die is a mortal.

Logic states that CM > SM.

[incubat]

^earth is earth allright, but superman isn't necesarilly limited to earth, and besides how can CM be inmortal if he is earth's mightiest MORTAL?

[The Leaguer]

Captain Marvel is a sissy compared to Superman.

[incubat]

^allways a reasonable argument by leaguer

[CanaryFan]

Captain Marvel is a sissy compared to Superman.

So you're saying that Superman could get beatup by a sissy?

[The Leaguer]

I think you'd have to be pretty stupid to think that's what I said. Do you think that's what I said? I'd tell you to think before you answer, but that may not be possible in your case.

[Varient]

smh.

[CanaryFan]

Everybody knows Superman bows down to the world's mightiest mortal!

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/m-col/Misc/00000000000Cesar20-20Shazam20vs20Su.jpg

[The Leaguer]

Just looks like Cap is enjoying some oral sex to me.

[CanaryFan]

from his *****!

[The Leaguer]

No, actually, from Superman.

[Varient]

..................
Right NOW in a straight up fight on the Rock of Eternity,... Captain Marvel Wins.

Prior to the LAST two DC comic wide events,.. Superman wins.


If he lives long enough there will be a time when Superman will be able to again beat Billy.

C'mon People look at "feats" and realize.

Captain Marvel Jr. will be retaking the position of "Worlds Mightiest Mortal" While Billy Sits on the rock.

[CanaryFan]

Like I said, his *****.

[Eros]

Captain marvel always wins.

[The Leaguer]

In the game of suckage.

[Eros]

In the game of suckage.

Your not even trying anymore dude[that was terrible], really now "the game suckage"?:huh: :o

[The Leaguer]

You even quoted me, and you still left out "of?"

[Eros]

You even quoted me, and you still left out "of?"


of, no, and, it was stupid thing to say dude. on a very serous note, Whats going on man? You seem to be slipping, I think you need to retool and go see whats wrong. Your comment was just unexceptable, Im not going to sit around and let your fall into the deep abyss.

[The Leaguer]

I'm glad my comment was unexceptable and not unacceptable. That would just crush me.

[Eros]

I'm glad my comment was unexceptable and not unacceptable. That would just crush me.

typo:csad: , but still we need to see whats wrong with you.

[The Leaguer]

Nothing is ever wrong with me.

[sethcohen]

ouch....

[Eros]

Nothing is ever wrong with me.


your falling into the abyss kiddo.

[Colossal Spoons]

I'm glad my comment was unexceptable and not unacceptable. That would just crush me.

Redeemed :o

[sethcohen]

your falling into the abyss kiddo.

ummmm no... stop projecting

[blud_knight]

toe to toe marvel has him

[Redwolf]

http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=a8c37_capflash2.jpg



http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvel9a109gm3re.gif



http://img137.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc24&image=5175d_capvesupes2l.jpg

http://img137.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc24&image=5175d_capvesupes2l.jpg

http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61f64_posz4.jpg



WRONG! :oldrazz:

Your link showing the nuke explosion is all wrong. I'm talking about the Maggedon Warhead not a basic Nuke. Cap died in that nuke blast from Kingdom Come. Here is a scan of Superman taking (at point blank range) the Maggedon Warhead. Which is capable of destroying half a galaxy.

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/4117/supermanandmegaddonwarhead6oq.jpg

Your pics of Marvel holding Superman is also dishonest. Why because Superman was possesed by Eclipso. Those scans are showig the moment Superman took control back, and tells Marvel to kill him. Which clearly shows Superman wasn't trying to get free.

That last strength scan appears to be old, even so Superman is holding his own. It doesn't show Marvel beating Superman. They appear to be almost even.

[KAD]

Your link showing the nuke explosion is all wrong. I'm talking about the Maggedon Warhead not a basic Nuke. Cap died in that nuke blast from Kingdom Come. Here is a scan of Superman taking (at point blank range) the Maggedon Warhead. Which is capable of destroying half a galaxy.

.

You mean "Disarming at point blank range"
In cannon it has almost always been a draw but CM should win considering the magic aspect, lightning etc.

Or perhaps CM changes to BB just as SM lands a blow which kills BB but drives SM mad with anguish over the death of BB

[Redwolf]

Earth means Earth. If Superman is indeed mightier then he would have the title.

-I swear you are as bad as Hulk fanboys:whatever: . You are wrong, even an idiot knows that the title "Earth's mightiest mortal" means the mightiest of the humans. Clark isn't a human so therefore doesn't fall under that category. What about Hal Jordan? He wields the most powerful weapon in the universe. Are you going to tell me Marvel is mightier than the most powerful weapon in the universe?...LOL



If you really read Superman/Batman #5 then you would have read Superman admitting that Captain Marvel, due to the nature of his powers, has the edge over him toe to toe.

-So you conclude from that statement that Superman can't beat him? I'll repeat this for you..

"Superman explains what has happened in a quick monologue: He and Batman allowed Hawkman and Captain Marvel to think they had bested them in order to give Katana and Power Girl the time and opportunity to track down the boy in Tokyo. At the first chance, the two heroes bested their captors and disguised themselves as them in order to approach the White House without incident."

So much for that advantage, Bats and Supes bested Hawkman and Marvel..i.e. they beat them and disguised themselves as Marvel and Hawkman.





It is true. Someone with Marvel's capabilities can capitalize on such an advantage. Only DC's bias allow someone like Luthor or anyone with a decent intelligence to fail in using such knowledge in proper use.

-Again just because Marvel's powers are magic based doesn't mean an automatic win for him against Superman. My logic holds, Superman has battled magical beings and come out on top. Superman has battled Marvel. Logically if Superman can defeat magical beings then he can defeat Marvel in battle.



The truest sense of immortality means you cannot die whether you like it or not no matter what the cause.



That alone contradicts your claim the Supes is immortal. And even though he grows stronger his weaknesses remain.

-There is more than one definition of "immortal". Each are equally valid. Superman cannot die from old age so in that sense he is immortal. So no it does not contradict my claim as there is more than one definition of immortal.



You sure about that? Doomsday can't be killed by Supes anymore. Hell, even the stronger Supes got his arm broken by Doomsday in one of their rematch.


-That was in Superman/Doomsday Hunter Prey. That came out soon after Superman's return from death. Doomsday and Supes have battle since then.

SUPERMAN: THE DOOMSDAY WARS 1-3, and SUPERMAN #175.

In fact here is a scan of Superman moving so fast he goes intangable. Doomsdays blows are going through him.

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/8848/supermanfast8mt1xe.jpg

[Redwolf]

You mean "Disarming at point blank range"
In cannon it has almost always been a draw but CM should win considering the magic aspect, lightning etc.

Or perhaps CM changes to BB just as SM lands a blow which kills BB but drives SM mad with anguish over the death of BB

Here are better scans...


http://img279.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supesgeddon25nr.jpg

http://img279.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supesgeddon30nr.jpg

http://img279.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supesgeddon48fq.jpg

[Redwolf]

Originally Posted by Toby_Temple http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9469064#post9469064)
Superman constanly getting stronger? Right. Make up more imaginary abilities for Supes just to make an arguement. Marvel was the first super strong hero who can fly and move at amazing speed than Supes while Superman was just a high-jumping superhero until DC decided to copy Marvel's powers and add them to Supes.

I'd like to add more this my first rebuttal in a previous quote. It's wasn't because Captain Marvel that DC change Superman's powers.

When making the Max Fleischer cartoons, the Fleischer Brothers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleischer_Brothers) found it difficult to keep animating him leaping and requested to DC to change his ability to flying. Writers gradually increased his powers to larger extents during the Silver Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Age_of_comics).

Also yes the more sunlight Clark absorbs the more powerful he becomes. When Superman reaches 100 years of age he will be more powerful. When he is 10,000 years old he will be more powerful than at 100. As I said before...

The longer he lives, the exponentially greater his life expectancy than becomes. The longer he is alive, the more solar energy he takes in. This further increases his body's resiliency, and efficiency, which then leads to his life expectancy increasing,w hich leads to his body becoming even more efficient, further staving off the breakdown of his body, which leads to even more solar energy absorption, which leads to an increase again in his life expactancy, and the cycle goes on and on. THe only way for him to grow old and die is to be away from any kind of yellow sunlight forever. In an environment with a yellow sun, he can not grow old and die.

This is a fact about Superman.

Also the affect Kryptonite has on him diminishes the longer he lives.

[KAD]

Here are better scans...


http://img279.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supesgeddon25nr.jpg

http://img279.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supesgeddon30nr.jpg

http://img279.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supesgeddon48fq.jpg

Am I missing something?

He disarmed it he didnt take the blast.

[Toby_Temple]

-I swear you are as bad as Hulk fanboys:whatever: . You are wrong, even an idiot knows that the title "Earth's mightiest mortal" means the mightiest of the humans. Clark isn't a human so therefore doesn't fall under that category. What about Hal Jordan? He wields the most powerful weapon in the universe. Are you going to tell me Marvel is mightier than the most powerful weapon in the universe?...LOL

Why don't you look on a mirror?:whatever:

Earth's mightiest means Earth's mightiest. I just applying the same logic that you used to accept a definition of immortal to fit Superman in the category of immortal.

So what about Hal Jordan wielding DC universe's most powerful weapon(I seriously don't buy that)? Is CM a weapon? Or maybe you forgot his title? Do you think mightiest = most powerful? Your logic seems to slip away as we move on.:woot:


-So you conclude from that statement that Superman can't beat him?

And when did I said that? hmmmm?:whatever:

-I'll repeat this for you..

"Superman explains what has happened in a quick monologue: He and Batman allowed Hawkman and Captain Marvel to think they had bested them in order to give Katana and Power Girl the time and opportunity to track down the boy in Tokyo. At the first chance, the two heroes bested their captors and disguised themselves as them in order to approach the White House without incident."

So much for that advantage, Bats and Supes bested Hawkman and Marvel..i.e. they beat them and disguised themselves as Marvel and Hawkman.

Maybe you forgot what Superman said after blasting CM? SUPERMAN SAID THAT CAPTAIN MARVEL HAS THE ADVANTAGE TOE TO TOE DUE TO THE NATURE OF HIS POWERS.


-Again just because Marvel's powers are magic based doesn't mean an automatic win for him against Superman. My logic holds, Superman has battled magical beings and come out on top. Superman has battled Marvel. Logically if Superman can defeat magical beings then he can defeat Marvel in battle.

LOGIC 101.....again: A winning over B does not mean A would also win against C if B won against C.

-There is more than one definition of "immortal". Each are equally valid. Superman cannot die from old age so in that sense he is immortal. So no it does not contradict my claim as there is more than one definition of immortal.

Literary definitions. But the true meaning of immortal......... Base on that it is logically sound to say that Superman is a mortal.

-That was in Superman/Doomsday Hunter Prey. That came out soon after Superman's return from death. Doomsday and Supes have battle since then.

SUPERMAN: THE DOOMSDAY WARS 1-3, and SUPERMAN #175.

In fact here is a scan of Superman moving so fast he goes intangable. Doomsdays blows are going through him.

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/8848/supermanfast8mt1xe.jpg


It is already canon that Doomsday can't be killed by Superman coz he already killed him and thus Doomsday evolved to make sure that does not happen again. So it is only logical that Superman can't kill Doomsday just by using his own powers. And Superman there was not intangible. It just shows that he dodged the blow and the intangible-like effect is just to show how fast he is. See that part where he flies/leaps to avoid a hammer strike from Doomsday? If he can be intangible then he does not need to escape. See how my logic is better than yours?:yay:

[Toby_Temple]

Originally Posted by Toby_Temple http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9469064#post9469064)
Superman constanly getting stronger? Right. Make up more imaginary abilities for Supes just to make an arguement. Marvel was the first super strong hero who can fly and move at amazing speed than Supes while Superman was just a high-jumping superhero until DC decided to copy Marvel's powers and add them to Supes.

I'd like to add more this my first rebuttal in a previous quote. It's wasn't because Captain Marvel that DC change Superman's powers.

When making the Max Fleischer cartoons, the Fleischer Brothers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleischer_Brothers) found it difficult to keep animating him leaping and requested to DC to change his ability to flying. Writers gradually increased his powers to larger extents during the Silver Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Age_of_comics).

Also yes the more sunlight Clark absorbs the more powerful he becomes. When Superman reaches 100 years of age he will be more powerful. When he is 10,000 years old he will be more powerful than at 100. As I said before...

The longer he lives, the exponentially greater his life expectancy than becomes. The longer he is alive, the more solar energy he takes in. This further increases his body's resiliency, and efficiency, which then leads to his life expectancy increasing,w hich leads to his body becoming even more efficient, further staving off the breakdown of his body, which leads to even more solar energy absorption, which leads to an increase again in his life expactancy, and the cycle goes on and on. THe only way for him to grow old and die is to be away from any kind of yellow sunlight forever. In an environment with a yellow sun, he can not grow old and die.

This is a fact about Superman.



An alibi presented to the court when the makers of Captain Marvel sued DC. The most common and logical conclusion why they adapted the flying ability is because Captain Marvel was more popular during those times.

And the next statements are also wrong. A human and a Kryptonian exposed to a red sun when both is facing a loaded gun.......what's the difference?:oldrazz:

Superman can't be killed.......right.

Also the affect Kryptonite has on him diminishes the longer he lives.

Adding again. If Clark was exposed to a red star, the effects of Kryptonite would have been slower. The fact that Kryptonite affects him instantly because of his exposure to the yellow star, our Sun. Don't tell me you don't know that SM fanboy.:woot:

[incubat]

I thougt it was like this: kryptonite as well as superman are affected by the yellow sun in a way that makes kryptonite poisonous to him. but if the kryptonite isn't exposed to a yellow sun it doesn't affect him (on the other hand he loses his powers if he is exposed to a red sun for to long). that's why when hawkman and hawkgirl took him to see the remains of krypton he still had most of his powers while flying through the remains.

[Redwolf]

Am I missing something?

He disarmed it he didnt take the blast.

The first scan is clear he is taking the energy of the Warhead.

From the scan...

"Clark that is the essence of Maggedon."

"You can't handle that alone."

Later on Superman says..."Here it comes...concentrated anti-sunlight."

Then it shows Superman visibility in pain saying..."Urgh...Great Krypton...the cold sick horror it..."

Superman is taking the power of the Maggedon Warhead at point blank range.

[KAD]

The first scan is clear he is taking the energy of the Warhead.

From the scan...

"Clark that is the essence of Maggedon."

"You can't handle that alone."

Later on Superman says..."Here it comes...concentrated anti-sunlight."

Then it shows Superman visibility in pain saying..."Urgh...Great Krypton...the cold sick horror it..."

Superman is taking the power of the Maggedon Warhead at point blank range.

No SM is being exposed to what powers the warhead not the actual blast and apparently he needs the JLA as a psychic anchor

[Redwolf]

Why don't you look on a mirror?:whatever:

Earth's mightiest means Earth's mightiest. I just applying the same logic that you used to accept a definition of immortal to fit Superman in the category of immortal.

-Yes, Earth’s mightiest means the mightiest human mortal. Captain Marvel is the mightiest “human” earth mortal. I’m not going to keep going over and over this with you. I know it’s hard for you to accept you are wrong but get over it.

-YOU are the only one who believes Marvel is the “Mightiest of all mortals”. When in fact his title claims he is the “Mightiest Earth mortal”, meaning of the humans. Superman isn’t human and doesn’t fall into this category. It’s not the same logic, as I said there is more than one definition of “immortal” each are equally valid. Marvel’s title is “Earth’s mightiest mortal.” There is no bending and twisting what the title means.


So what about Hal Jordan wielding DC universe's most powerful weapon(I seriously don't buy that)? Is CM a weapon? Or maybe you forgot his title? Do you think mightiest = most powerful? Your logic seems to slip away as we move on.:woot:

-You don’t buy it because it shows you are wrong. FYI it’s been established by DC themselves that a Green Lantern wields “The most powerful weapon in the Universe.” Read any Green Lantern book and see.

-Of course I know a GL ring is a weapon, but that weapon gives the wielder the power. Just as the wizard SHAZAM gave Billy Batson his. YOU Toby have been claiming Marvel is the “mightiest” of the mortals. YOU have been implying he is the most powerful. Don’t you remember this? YOU claimed Marvel is more powerful/mightier than Superman, because according to YOU he’s “Earth’s mightiest mortal.” In terms of raw power a Green Lantern (by wielding the most powerful weapon in the universe) is the most powerful/mightiest.




And when did I said that? hmmmm?:whatever:

-You've been implying it throughout your posts. When you voted in the poll who did you pick? Let me quess Marvel!



Maybe you forgot what Superman said after blasting CM? SUPERMAN SAID THAT CAPTAIN MARVEL HAS THE ADVANTAGE TOE TO TOE DUE TO THE NATURE OF HIS POWERS.


-I know what Superman said about the toe-to-toe advantage. Apparently that didn’t help because Superman took out Marvel, and Batman took out Hawkman. Then disguised themselves as the Hawkman and Captain Marvel. So much for that “advantage.”




LOGIC 101.....again: A winning over B does not mean A would also win against C if B won against C.

-Wrong, you see many fanboys believe this magical weakness means Superman can’t win against (said magical foe). This isn’t true, as I stated before Superman has defeated magical foes before and held his own against Marvel. Logically this shows Superman’s “weakness” to magic is not so much a “weakness”. See how my logic is better than yours?



Literary definitions. But the true meaning of immortal......... Base on that it is logically sound to say that Superman is a mortal.

-As I said EACH of those definitions of “immortality” are equally valid. Superman cannot die from old age therefore by definition he is an immortal. Just like the Elves in the J.R.R. Tolkien books.


It is already canon that Doomsday can't be killed by Superman coz he already killed him and thus Doomsday evolved to make sure that does not happen again. So it is only logical that Superman can't kill Doomsday just by using his own powers. And Superman there was not intangible. It just shows that he dodged the blow and the intangible-like effect is just to show how fast he is. See that part where he flies/leaps to avoid a hammer strike from Doomsday? If he can be intangible then he does not need to escape. See how my logic is better than yours?:yay:


-I never said Superman killed Doomsday in those new battles. I said he defeated Doomsday in those battles. He IS going intangible, the top right part of that scan shows Superman (taking a trick from the Flash) standing still and vibrating so fast he goes intangible, which is why Doomsdays fist goes through his head. Why would Superman be intangible throughout the whole battle? If he remained intangible for the rest of the battle he wouldn’t have been able to punch and KO Doomsday because his fist would go through Doomsday. After Doomsdays fist goes through him, he flies over Doomsday, gets behind him and hits him with heat vision before pounding him into the dirt. That’s what the comic shows.

Your “logic” isn’t “logic” it’s ignorance. See how my logic is better than yours?

[Redwolf]

An alibi presented to the court when the makers of Captain Marvel sued DC. The most common and logical conclusion why they adapted the flying ability is because Captain Marvel was more popular during those times.

I have a source which proves my argument. Do you have one for yours?

The Fleischer brothers asked DC to allow Superman to fly because it was harder to draw him leaping all the time. Here is the source…


^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman#_ref-31#_ref-31)Cabarga, Leslie (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Leslie_Cabarga&action=edit), Beck Jerry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Beck), Fleischer, Richard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Fleischer) (Interviewees). (2006). "First Flight: The Fleischer Superman Series" (supplementary DVD documentary). Superman II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_II) (Two-Disc Special Edition) [DVD]. Warner Bros. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Bros.). And the next statements are also wrong. A human and a Kryptonian exposed to a red sun when both is facing a loaded gun.......what's the difference?:oldrazz:

Superman can't be killed.......right.


Pay attention young padewon because you obvisously are not. You’ve been watching too much Justice League Unlimited.

He's sort of like a battery. A battery under constant charge will burn out, but Clark keeps building a larger and larger store of solar energy. It's not like the moment he is exposed to a yellow sun he gets powers, and the minute he's somewhere else he loses them. He's got a vast energy reserve he can draw upon, and when that runs out he's powerless. Right now in the comics Superman is between 29-35 years of age. This means, he’s got 29-35 years of store up solar energy store up inside him. If Superman were to be transported to a planet with a red sun he wouldn’t automatically lose his powers.

It would depend on…
A. How much solar energy reserves he’s got stored up.
B. How much of that stored up energy he uses.

So when Superman is 100 years old he will have decades of energy stored up inside him. It’s the same thing if he were 10,000 years old. He’d have 10,000 years of stored up solar energy.

Can you read? Where did I say “Superman can’t be killed?” I said he can’t die of old age. Don’t you understand the difference? It is true the older he gets the harder it will be for a foe to kill him. This has been established and shown in the comics.


Read the “Our worlds at war” storyline. There Superman plunges into the sun to get uber powerful so he can push war-world into a boom tube to the beginning of time.

Still don’t believe me that the more solar energy he absorbs the more powerful and resilent he gets? Have you ever read DC One Million? It’s a story about a potential future of the DC Universe 83,000 years from now. Long story short, Superman leaves earth at the end of the 21st century. Why…because his friends and family/loved ones have all died of old age. He leaves earth to his son Superman Secondus, which is the child Clark and Lois had. Superman doesn’t return to earth for 67,000 years. When he does he locates his decendant Superman One Million and makes a covenant with him. Superman then retreats into the sun and hibernates for 16,000 years, he absorbs so much solar energy that he essentially becomes a new god. He leaves the sun only to destroy the baddie in the story.
http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dc100000080pggiant290nv.jpg (http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dc100000080pggiant290nv.jpg)

http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dc100000080pggiant304sw.jpg (http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dc100000080pggiant304sw.jpg)

http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dccomics1m4pg173ox.jpg (http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dccomics1m4pg173ox.jpg)

http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dccomics1m4pg184us.jpg (http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dccomics1m4pg184us.jpg)

http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dccomics1m4pg197pr.jpg (http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dccomics1m4pg197pr.jpg)

http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dccomics1m4pg204uq.jpg (http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dccomics1m4pg204uq.jpg)

http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dccomics1m4pg213ng.jpg



Adding again. If Clark was exposed to a red star, the effects of Kryptonite would have been slower. The fact that Kryptonite affects him instantly because of his exposure to the yellow star, our Sun. Don't tell me you don't know that SM fanboy.:woot:


-No it depends on how much solar energy he absorbs. As I said above


-He's sort of like a battery. A battery under constant charge will burn out, but Clark keeps building a larger and larger store of solar energy. It's not like the moment he is exposed to a yellow sun he gets powers, and the minute he's somewhere else he loses them. He's got a vast energy reserve he can draw upon, and when that runs out he's powerless. He will at some point in the future be immune to kryptonite.

I believe in Kingdom Come Superman was more immune to Kryptonite which is why Marvel had to battle him.

Look I’m not going to sit here and go back and forth with someone as ignorant as you. You obviously have a hard time comprehending Captain Marvel’s title “Earth’s mightiest Mortal.” You have a clear ignorance of Superman, how his powers work, etc. You are a waste of time and I will no longer continue debating you. I’ve provided a rebuttal to your lame arguments which was my purpose in replying to this once dead topic.

[Redwolf]

No SM is being exposed to what powers the warhead not the actual blast and apparently he needs the JLA as a psychic anchor

I disagree, Superman is "absorbing" the power of the maggedon Warhead. That power is capable of destroying half a galaxy and Superman is absorbing it that power. Don't think of it as a gun or laser blast.

[Toby_Temple]

-Yes, Earth’s mightiest means the mightiest human mortal. Captain Marvel is the mightiest “human” earth mortal. I’m not going to keep going over and over this with you. I know it’s hard for you to accept you are wrong but get over it.

-YOU are the only one who believes Marvel is the “Mightiest of all mortals”. When in fact his title claims he is the “Mightiest Earth mortal”, meaning of the humans. Superman isn’t human and doesn’t fall into this category. It’s not the same logic, as I said there is more than one definition of “immortal” each are equally valid. Marvel’s title is “Earth’s mightiest mortal.” There is no bending and twisting what the title means.

Strawman agruement. I never claimed CM to be the mightiest mortal. Remember his title? "EARTH'S MIGHTIEST MORTAL"?:woot:

-You don’t buy it because it shows you are wrong. FYI it’s been established by DC themselves that a Green Lantern wields “The most powerful weapon in the Universe.” Read any Green Lantern book and see.

Nope. I'm right. Most powerful weapon in the universe and yet their are still beings who could stand against it. The only weapon/relic that fits those description is Marvel's Heart of the Universe.

-Of course I know a GL ring is a weapon, but that weapon gives the wielder the power. Just as the wizard SHAZAM gave Billy Batson his. YOU Toby have been claiming Marvel is the “mightiest” of the mortals. YOU have been implying he is the most powerful. Don’t you remember this? YOU claimed Marvel is more powerful/mightier than Superman, because according to YOU he’s “Earth’s mightiest mortal.” In terms of raw power a Green Lantern (by wielding the most powerful weapon in the universe) is the most powerful/mightiest.

Strawman again.

-You've been implying it throughout your posts. When you voted in the poll who did you pick? Let me quess Marvel!

Another Strawman. Don't blame me for your ridiculous conclusion fanboy.:woot:

-I know what Superman said about the toe-to-toe advantage. Apparently that didn’t help because Superman took out Marvel, and Batman took out Hawkman. Then disguised themselves as the Hawkman and Captain Marvel. So much for that “advantage.”

Its the same principle you Superman fanboys use to prove that Superman would win against Hulk most of the time.:woot:

-Wrong, you see many fanboys believe this magical weakness means Superman can’t win against (said magical foe). This isn’t true, as I stated before Superman has defeated magical foes before and held his own against Marvel. Logically this shows Superman’s “weakness” to magic is not so much a “weakness”. See how my logic is better than yours?

So? Does that mean you think I believe the same crap? Now how can that kind of logic be better than mine?:woot:

-As I said EACH of those definitions of “immortality” are equally valid. Superman cannot die from old age therefore by definition he is an immortal. Just like the Elves in the J.R.R. Tolkien books.

No there not. You said it yourself. Superman is an immortal in the truest essence of the word. The truest essence of the word immortal means someone who will never die.

-I never said Superman killed Doomsday in those new battles. I said he defeated Doomsday in those battles. He IS going intangible, the top right part of that scan shows Superman (taking a trick from the Flash) standing still and vibrating so fast he goes intangible, which is why Doomsdays fist goes through his head. Why would Superman be intangible throughout the whole battle? If he remained intangible for the rest of the battle he wouldn’t have been able to punch and KO Doomsday because his fist would go through Doomsday. After Doomsdays fist goes through him, he flies over Doomsday, gets behind him and hits him with heat vision before pounding him into the dirt. That’s what the comic shows.

If that is another upgrade to Superman's abilities then I can't do anything about that. DC are clearly trying to make their main man godlike.:woot: Last time only someone like Flash can do such a feat.

-Your “logic” isn’t “logic” it’s ignorance. See how my logic is better than yours?

Better in your imagination. That's how.:woot:

[Toby_Temple]

I have a source which proves my argument. Do you have one for yours?

The Fleischer brothers asked DC to allow Superman to fly because it was harder to draw him leaping all the time. Here is the source…


^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman#_ref-31#_ref-31)Cabarga, Leslie (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Leslie_Cabarga&action=edit), Beck Jerry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Beck), Fleischer, Richard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Fleischer) (Interviewees). (2006). "First Flight: The Fleischer Superman Series" (supplementary DVD documentary). Superman II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_II) (Two-Disc Special Edition) [DVD]. Warner Bros. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Bros.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Comics_Publications_v._Fawcett_Publicatio ns

http://www.worldfamouscomics.com/law/back20001024.shtml


Pay attention young padewon because you obvisously are not. You’ve been watching too much Justice League Unlimited.

Those ****ty animated crap why would I be watching.:woot:

He's sort of like a battery. A battery under constant charge will burn out, but Clark keeps building a larger and larger store of solar energy. It's not like the moment he is exposed to a yellow sun he gets powers, and the minute he's somewhere else he loses them. He's got a vast energy reserve he can draw upon, and when that runs out he's powerless. Right now in the comics Superman is between 29-35 years of age. This means, he’s got 29-35 years of store up solar energy store up inside him. If Superman were to be transported to a planet with a red sun he wouldn’t automatically lose his powers.

It would depend on…
A. How much solar energy reserves he’s got stored up.
B. How much of that stored up energy he uses.

So when Superman is 100 years old he will have decades of energy stored up inside him. It’s the same thing if he were 10,000 years old. He’d have 10,000 years of stored up solar energy.


Its already an established fact by DC that kryptonians only get superpowers if exposed to a yellow sun.

Can you read? Where did I say “Superman can’t be killed?” I said he can’t die of old age. Don’t you understand the difference? It is true the older he gets the harder it will be for a foe to kill him. This has been established and shown in the comics.

Yes I can read. Like I read you claiming that Superman is immortal.:woot:

Read the “Our worlds at war” storyline. There Superman plunges into the sun to get uber powerful so he can push war-world into a boom tube to the beginning of time.

Even if that comic wasn't made I would made the same conclusion. I'm too smart not to make an intelligent guess.:woot:

Still don’t believe me that the more solar energy he absorbs the more powerful and resilent he gets? Have you ever read DC One Million? It’s a story about a potential future of the DC Universe 83,000 years from now. Long story short, Superman leaves earth at the end of the 21st century. Why…because his friends and family/loved ones have all died of old age. He leaves earth to his son Superman Secondus, which is the child Clark and Lois had. Superman doesn’t return to earth for 67,000 years. When he does he locates his decendant Superman One Million and makes a covenant with him. Superman then retreats into the sun and hibernates for 16,000 years, he absorbs so much solar energy that he essentially becomes a new god. He leaves the sun only to destroy the baddie in the story.


A possible future indeed. But that does not undo the fact that if kryptonians are exposed to a red sun they would be like humans.


-No it depends on how much solar energy he absorbs. As I said above

-He's sort of like a battery. A battery under constant charge will burn out, but Clark keeps building a larger and larger store of solar energy. It's not like the moment he is exposed to a yellow sun he gets powers, and the minute he's somewhere else he loses them. He's got a vast energy reserve he can draw upon, and when that runs out he's powerless. He will at some point in the future be immune to kryptonite.

The is very unlikely. It is already an established fact that Superman is vulnerable to kryptonite.

I believe in Kingdom Come Superman was more immune to Kryptonite which is why Marvel had to battle him.

Your belief is irrelevant.

Look I’m not going to sit here and go back and forth with someone as ignorant as you. You obviously have a hard time comprehending Captain Marvel’s title “Earth’s mightiest Mortal.” You have a clear ignorance of Superman, how his powers work, etc. You are a waste of time and I will no longer continue debating you. I’ve provided a rebuttal to your lame arguments which was my purpose in replying to this once dead topic.


Once dead thanks to you. Whether you like it or not, Captain Marvel is Earth's Mightiest Mortal. My knowledge of Superman is enough for me to be certain that Superman is always the underdog in a fight against Captain Marvel due to his advantage. Thank you for wasting you time on me. :woot:

[Czar Colossus]

Wow, I can't believe this arguement is still raging. To be really nitpicky Cap has been named the "World's Mightiest Mortal" (not Earth's). In a fight between Cap and Supes we may never really know. The circumstances could sway things either way, but in a fair battle toe to toe with no outside variables it could concievably go on indefinately. Superman's and Cap's potential lifespans have never been clearly defined, but Superman IS NOT immortal. The great thing about Cap's status is that he is THE ONE BEING that is Superman's equal. That is a hallowed position reserved for him.
Lastly I prefer to think of them in the way that they were portrayed in First Thunder. Superman is a mentor type figure that Billy looks up to. I would have liked to see more of that. (Unfortunately in light of recent developments that is doubtful).
Well that's my 2 cents.:cwink:

[Ultra-Herald9]

It has been established by DC that Captain Marvel is not as strong as Superman when he is not holding back. Thats why Caps strength is compared to Wonder Womans and Martian Manhunters who DC says are both not as strong as Superman.

[Czar Colossus]

:huh: Since when?

[incubat]

It has been established by DC that Captain Marvel is not as strong as Superman when he is not holding back. Thats why Caps strength is compared to Wonder Womans and Martian Manhunters who DC says are both not as strong as Superman.

yeah, when was that said?

[Eros]

Ultra-herald made it up.

[incubat]

^that'd be really sad

[Czar Colossus]

I really don't want to waste my time being overly arguementive, but what has actually been established is that Captain Marvel is Superman's only real rival in pure physical power. Superman is THE ONE that all others are measured against and to reiterate Cap is the only true rival he has. They are as different as they are alike in nature. That is what makes the dicotomy of these two characters so special.
In light of recent events though Cap may now be in another class!

[Memphis Slim]

Originally Posted by ibsisomis http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11395134#post11395134)
Captian Marvel's powers are magically based. So I can actually see him smacking supes around. Even though I hate supes, I can see Captain Marvel beating his ass pretty easily. And I kinda agree that Juggy's powers are that he is immune to any physical damage. And by saying that he "shouldn't" be able to be hurt by Hulk. But that being said, I'm sure even Juggy's ability to take punishment has it's limits. I mean when he and Thor fought the 2nd time Thor actually put it on him there for a while. Even though to get the "W" he used his hammer to carry Juggy away into orbit.

I can't agree with that. It's magic that gives Cap his powers. But Cap doesn't actually "use" magic (like Dr. Fate or Zatanna etc..). He uses regular hay-makers and fisticups like Superman. But supes has other offensive powers, too. The only thing I can see is Cap being able to call down the Shazam bolt (which IS magic). But he runs a risk of Superman slapping his hand over his mouth, in his Billy form.

[Memphis Slim]

I really don't want to waste my time being overly arguementive, but what has actually been established is that Captain Marvel is Superman's only real rival in pure physical power. Superman is THE ONE that all others are measured against and to reiterate Cap is the only true rival he has. They are as different as they are alike in nature. That is what makes the dicotomy of these two characters so special.
In light of recent events though Cap may now be in another class!


Yeah.....if we're talking about the amped up white-haired Cap....he might have an edge.

[Czar Colossus]

I guess we'll see.
:yay:

[larryfilmmaker]

And face it, he does beat Superman in Kingdom Come. http://utterly.org/cm_vs_supes.jpg

What? What part of "hands that can squeeze coal into diamonds crawl across human flesh" didn't you get? Superman is trying to talk the entire fight. Marvel is brainwashed and hitting him with all he's got until Superman gets pissed and yells "Enough", taking a lightning bolt and grabbing Marvel by the face, at which point, the writer makes it very clear he could pop his head if he wanted to. Superman then decides to free Marvel, letting him choose his next action. Which Kingdom Come were you reading? In your version does the kryptonite hurt Superman because you want it to?

[larryfilmmaker]

The truth is this. If you're biased, you'll choose your favorite. If you believe in the subtle themes instilled in the Superman lore, there's no way he could lose, even to an enemy powered by his very weakness. In some comics he's broken kryptonite chains, beaten Marvel in fights, and in the movie he's pushed a kryptonite island into the sky. He represents the unbeatable, all mighty power of GOOD. Sure, you might get mad and say "you can't defy logic just cuz he's Superman" but I think you're missing the point. Being an "unstoppable force of Good" IS what Superman is all about. Being the be-all end all superhero is what Superman just plain IS. Sure, no stats back this and he can't act like a God all of the time but when it comes down to it, Superman is SUPERMAN.

Now let's say you don't believe in the "between the lines" aspect of characters. The whole Superman being a "faith based" and unbeatable character doesn't make any LOGICAL sense. You believe in the cold hard stats like Superman is weak against magic and Marvel is magic based so it might have to go to Marvel. Realism, reality, right? Good. Now, Batman is dead because he got stabbed in the throat while patrolling the streets (he is, after all, only a man). Batgirl, Punisher, the X-Men, Nightwing, and the rest are all dead because the superpowered enemies got tired of messing around and decided to finally kill them all. I mean what REALLY stopped Bane from killing themt he whole time? Dark Phoenix just erased the X-Men from existance with a thought (she is, after all, the Goddess of Creation). Magneto used Wolverine as his own personal flying blender against his enemies. Oh, and Xavier finally said "**** it" and just erased the bad guys' minds all at once. FINALLY, characters are doing what they would REALLY do in real life! It's completely irrelevant and disloyal to the mythologies to not have certain respect for the icons, even if you don't like them.

[larryfilmmaker]

why exactly does everyone hate jplaya?

I thought it was JayDawg I was told to ignore? Are they the same guy?

[incubat]

^I don't know...all this happened so long ago

[Czar Colossus]

What? What part of "hands that can squeeze coal into diamonds crawl across human flesh" didn't you get? Superman is trying to talk the entire fight. Marvel is brainwashed and hitting him with all he's got until Superman gets pissed and yells "Enough", taking a lightning bolt and grabbing Marvel by the face, at which point, the writer makes it very clear he could pop his head if he wanted to. Superman then decides to free Marvel, letting him choose his next action. Which Kingdom Come were you reading? In your version does the kryptonite hurt Superman because you want it to?

Actually all that proves is that Superman can beat Billy Batson. Using the lightning against Superman was a neat plot device, but it was a disadvantage as much as an advantage. If Billy had remained Cap the two would still have been slugging it out after the bomb exploded amidst all those dead bodies with neither of them gaining anything. (Yes, I believe Cap would survive the blast. He died in his ordinary human form.)

[Toby_Temple]

The truth is this. If you're biased, you'll choose your favorite.

It seemed that you should follow your own advice.

If you believe in the subtle themes instilled in the Superman lore, there's no way he could lose, even to an enemy powered by his very weakness. In some comics he's broken kryptonite chains, beaten Marvel in fights, and in the movie he's pushed a kryptonite island into the sky. He represents the unbeatable, all mighty power of GOOD. Sure, you might get mad and say "you can't defy logic just cuz he's Superman" but I think you're missing the point. Being an "unstoppable force of Good" IS what Superman is all about. Being the be-all end all superhero is what Superman just plain IS. Sure, no stats back this and he can't act like a God all of the time but when it comes down to it, Superman is SUPERMAN.

Using that logic of yours then Superman can win against Imperiex anytime.

Now let's say you don't believe in the "between the lines" aspect of characters. The whole Superman being a "faith based" and unbeatable character doesn't make any LOGICAL sense. You believe in the cold hard stats like Superman is weak against magic and Marvel is magic based so it might have to go to Marvel. Realism, reality, right? Good. Now, Batman is dead because he got stabbed in the throat while patrolling the streets (he is, after all, only a man). Batgirl, Punisher, the X-Men, Nightwing, and the rest are all dead because the superpowered enemies got tired of messing around and decided to finally kill them all. I mean what REALLY stopped Bane from killing themt he whole time? Dark Phoenix just erased the X-Men from existance with a thought (she is, after all, the Goddess of Creation). Magneto used Wolverine as his own personal flying blender against his enemies. Oh, and Xavier finally said "**** it" and just erased the bad guys' minds all at once. FINALLY, characters are doing what they would REALLY do in real life! It's completely irrelevant and disloyal to the mythologies to not have certain respect for the icons, even if you don't like them.

Irrelevant. Let me reveal to you how pathetic that reasoning is.
If we all accept that "good will always triumph over evil" as the most acceptable reason and argument to end "versus" debates, then any villain regardless of how powerful they compared to any hero, that villain will certainly lose.

But what happends if its hero vs hero? Who would win?

That is why we need to go out of what comic writers do most of the time and take into consideration reality. Wolverine could never win against Mephisto no matter how good Wolverine is. Same with Xavier against Thanos. There is no argument there.

But when it comes to two equals like Superman and Captain Marvel, saying the Superman wins because he's Superman is the dumbest reason there is.

[Toby_Temple]

What? What part of "hands that can squeeze coal into diamonds crawl across human flesh" didn't you get? Superman is trying to talk the entire fight. Marvel is brainwashed and hitting him with all he's got until Superman gets pissed and yells "Enough", taking a lightning bolt and grabbing Marvel by the face, at which point, the writer makes it very clear he could pop his head if he wanted to. Superman then decides to free Marvel, letting him choose his next action. Which Kingdom Come were you reading? In your version does the kryptonite hurt Superman because you want it to?

You would say that in Kingdom Come Cap was brainwashed so Superman was holding back. The same can be said when Superman was possessed by Eclipso. Superman was more ruthless than ever and Captain Marvel was also holding back and still was able to went toe-to-toe with Supes.
Cap only lose because he chose not to kill Supes.

[Czar Colossus]

Very good point; I believe that happened on two different occasions.

[Toby_Temple]

You are correct. One ended with Eclipso(in possession of Superman's body) deciding to end the fight and went away and the other is when Spectre exorcised Eclipso out of Superman's body or was it because of the diamond.

[wootbaby]

the true answer is that power levels are not set in stone. being a stupid medium for boys with no girlfriends there's really no legitimacy to how strong characters are in comics and writers have wide discretion on the power levels of the characters.

superman's own powers vary WIDELY depending on silver age, golden age etc. some writers believe he can move planets in the 70s yet in the 80s he can barely survive a direct thermonuclear hit. in some comics he is a force of nature, more powerful than suns yet in others he's barely more powerful than other superpowered humans.

listen to this this kid:

Superman has even mentioned to the side in his own comics that sometimes he holds back too much, hence the ability for folk in his power range to tag him.

that was something one writer pulled out of his ass because it sounds cool (probably inspired by Byrne's throwaway gag in 80s MOS where Superman works out with 10lb dumbells cuz he has no idea what is appropriate for puny humans and LL remarks it's lighter than even what she uses) . there's 0 evidence that versus brainiac, powered up luthor or ANYONE that superman was holding back in the 80s 70s 60s 50s at ALL. the only way this even has a way of being canon is RETCON. if anything it's probably a statement that superman relies TOO MUCH on brute strength and versus like-powered opponents his fighting skills are actually subpar and underdeveloped

versus Captain Marvel?

the TRUE answer of Cap versus Superman is that they are PARITY. Why? because they are designed to be that way. Captain Marvel and Superman share a developmental history going back to the very beginning in 1939. Cap was created based on the POPULARITY of Superman but he was a superior character and many changes were made to Superman including super flight, intellect, superior morality, increased strength, heat vision, cold breath, better opponents in DIRECT response to Capt. Their developmental history is directly tied. they were created to be complementary characters so it is IMPOSSIBLE that they are anything but very equally matched.

you CAN argue superman versus hulk or batman v superman... because they are separate characters created for different niches in the comics market. superman and captain marvel are like coke and pepsi... want to argue who is MORE COLA? slightly different flavor but basically the same deal.

In terms of strength they are equal (not that strength is the determinate factor... you can easily argue that Black Adam or Doomsday are STRONGER than both) but equal also in terms of morality, wisdom, willpower, speed, intellect etc. The primary difference between the 2 is that Superman is vulnerable to magic while Cap is not (and potentially could WIELD magic as in cast spells although he chooses not to). Superman has access to high tech (which Cap COULD master with his Wisdom of Solomon but chooses not to... perhaps because of the wisdom of Solomon???). and Capt is vulnerable while powered down. it's actually ironic... superman has been powered UP over and over through the years in a desperate attempt to be "the strongest in comics. while Capt has in fact been powered DOWN in a humble attempt to be less god-like. for example Cap used to do things like hypnotize and mentally control weak minded opponents (like the Force only 40 years earlier) and actually as the heir to Shazam Capt could potentially become thousands or MILLIONS of times more powerful (he's the world's mightiest MORTAL but he could become a true IMMORTAL)

These days many writers write Cap as slightly more powerful in NET (as Ross did in KC. The magic lightning gag became popular as a concept among geeks in the late 80s and Ross used that in KC) but that's largely a reaction to threads like this... to be contrary to kids who automatically think 'SUPERMAN IS THE STRONGEST THEIR IS" without actually educating themselves on Captain Marvel at all. basically the 2 characters are very very very closely related in a lot of ways... you'd probably have to go back to all those Captain America clones in the 40s to get as similarly powered and designed characters.

[wootbaby]

Actually all that proves is that Superman can beat Billy Batson. Using the lightning against Superman was a neat plot device, but it was a disadvantage as much as an advantage. If Billy had remained Cap the two would still have been slugging it out after the bomb exploded amidst all those dead bodies with neither of them gaining anything. (Yes, I believe Cap would survive the blast. He died in his ordinary human form.)

ross and waid ripped this directly off Alan Moore's ToSH. (which is cheesy but okay since DC owned the rights to it). no one can beat cap marvel so martian manhunter kills BB while his mouth is covered. the lightning gag itself was kicking around for a decade in newsgroups and BBS before there even was an internet

you'll choose your favorite.

this is the truest quote in here. they're basically the same deal... it's like arguing who'd win Doc Savage or Batman? batman writers ripped off so much crap from Doc that they're basically the same character in strength and talents by now... how the crap can you distinguish who's stronger or smarter? or the Shadow versus Batman... one is magic based one science based... but the core of the amalgamated character is such that they specialize in duex ex machina (aka batman's "prep time" argument v superman). compensating for their own weaknesses and opponents' strengths is the CORE of the character it's not like batman wouldn't be able to find a way to combat the Shadow and vice versa.

it's a wash so you pick the one you like

[incubat]

^you make very good arguments, but you should remember that superman was actually depowered back in the first crisis because he was way too powerful and it became kind of boring that no one could beat him. meaning they both were powered down.

[incubat]

oops, double post

[Doctor Doom]

I vote for Superman.

[Kitsune]

Hmmm lets see how that would play out

Here we go.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/245/superduper3lq1.jpg

[Doctor Doom]

That just oozes hilarity. :funny:

[Kenda Man]

ross and waid ripped this directly off Alan Moore's ToSH. (which is cheesy but okay since DC owned the rights to it). no one can beat cap marvel so martian manhunter kills BB while his mouth is covered. the lightning gag itself was kicking around for a decade in newsgroups and BBS before there even was an internet



That sounds pretty interesting. Is that Alan Moore's Twilight plot? I would like to read more about it.

I'm biased in that I like Captain Marvel more. I think I would be able to relate to him more mainly because Billy Batson is human and has a sense of innocence and purity to him. He also has that humility that he does make mistakes. A great rendition of Captain Marvel can be in Dini's Shazam! Power of Hope and in Johns' JSA Captain Marvel when interacting with Stargirl. I thought that was an awesome take on how awkward it would be for Billy to be on JSA as Captain MArvel and to have a secret relationship with Stargirl and only the two of them know Billy is Captain Marvel. The whole JSA were freaked out about it being Captain Marvel, a 35 year old guy dating Stargirl, who was around 16 years old. But Billy knew if he revealed he was really 16, then all of the members of JSA would not respect him as they do in his Captain Marvel form.

Superman will always be the role model in which superheroes look up to. He just seems like he makes no mistakes and that he is more cold and calculated when compared to Captain Marvel, which was seen heavily in "First Thunder."

[javphonic]

Superman, he's SUPERman

[Czar Colossus]

Loved First Thunder! That's the relationship that Cap should have with Superman. It makes total sense for Superman to be a mentor figure for Billy in his superhero exploits. I love that Clark felt a responsibility to help Billy, but nothing has been done with this, and in light of recent events it doesn't seem like anything will. (I'm still hoping.)
And at the risk of sounding totally stupid, what is ToSH?

[Kitsune]

That just oozes hilarity. :funny:
Issue #4 of Mad Magazine.

[fifthfiend]

coke and pepsi... want to argue who is MORE COLA?

COKE, *******! :cmad:

**** you and your blue-canned pisswater!

[Kitsune]

COKE, *******! :cmad:

**** you and your blue-canned pisswater!

Coke is good for cleaning the battery cables on your car.

[TheCorpulent1]

Coke for me as well. Pepsi tastes too sugary. I prefer no discernible tastes in my synthetic beverages, thankyouverymuch! :o

[Doctor Doom]

I vote for Coca Cola.

[Varient]

LOL.
http://forums.superherohype.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5378&stc=1&d=1215621209:word:

[Anubis]

And the Big Red Cheese sits on his ass and does nothing to help. Classic.

[TheCorpulent1]

What, you've never heard of middle management? He's supervising. :o

Wait, what the f*** is Goku doing there? :huh:

[Anubis]

Not kicking the ass of everybody in that picture with ease I'd say.

[The Question]

What, you've never heard of middle management? He's supervising. :o

Wait, what the f*** is Goku doing there? :huh:

Supposedly the last survivor of a dead alien race that turns out has somewhere around 100 other survivors no one ever noticed, grew up as a simple farm boy, is ridiculously over powered which is balanced out by his boy scout-ish morals, married to a really *****y woman...he's got more than a few Superman-isms.

[Anubis]

I bet You Superman didn't have a tail and didn't turn into a Giant Monkey whenever he saw a full moon.

[The Question]

I bet You Superman didn't have a tail and didn't turn into a Giant Monkey whenever he saw a full moon.

He probably did pre-crisis. :o

[TheCorpulent1]

At least once. Probably found a way to blame it on Lois and Jimmy, too.

[Varient]

And the Big Red Cheese sits on his ass and does nothing to help. Classic.
Heh,... I figured he was waiting his turn.

What, you've never heard of middle management? He's supervising. :o


Wait, what the f*** is Goku doing there? :huh:
LOL
Keeping Supes from getting away of course.

Not kicking the ass of everybody in that picture with ease I'd say.
Damn.


Supposedly the last survivor of a dead alien race that turns out has somewhere around 100 other survivors no one ever noticed, grew up as a simple farm boy, is ridiculously over powered which is balanced out by his boy scout-ish morals, married to a really *****y woman...he's got more than a few Superman-isms.


Truth Chi Chi has really dragged out and become a bummer from her cutesy days as a helmeted pretty girl.

V.

[TheCorpulent1]

Being married to a lazy brawler who eats like a whale'll do that to any woman.

[Kitsune]

And the Big Red Cheese sits on his ass and does nothing to help. Classic.

It doesn't take the wisdom of Solomon to know when to stay out of a domestic dispute.

[Varient]

Being married to a lazy brawler who eats like a whale'll do that to any woman.

"Lazy?"

[TheCorpulent1]

Outside of fighting and training, yeah. He never works or contributes much of anything to the family except dragging all their kids into his violent world.

[Varient]

Outside of fighting and training, yeah. He never works or contributes much of anything to the family except dragging all their kids into his violent world.

I put it on her,.. she "entered his world" to marry him:
http://forums.superherohype.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5383&stc=1&d=1215638210
Got his attention:
http://forums.superherohype.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5382&stc=1&d=1215638170
Married Him:
http://forums.superherohype.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5384&stc=1&d=1215638805
Then made his life HELL.

[TheCorpulent1]

That obviously means you're just a misogynist.

[Varient]

That obviously means you're just a misogynist.

No,...
(LOL)

Look @ his facial expressions,... Old gurl Cast out her line,... reeled him in,... and commenced to cook him.

[TheCorpulent1]

So, what, because she's a wife who cares about her husband and the influence his life is having on their children, you're vilifying her as a cannibal now? Pff, typical man! :cmad:

[CanaryFan]

LOL.
http://forums.superherohype.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5378&stc=1&d=1215621209:word:

Who's the guy in the bottom right corner?

[The Question]

Who's the guy in the bottom right corner?

Mister Majestic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Majestic)

[CanaryFan]

Ahh, thanks.

[TheCorpulent1]

Best of the Superman clones, as far as I'm concerned. :up: He's going to be an antagonist in the upcoming Wildcats: World's End series.