[raises the Finger] [Archive] - The Superhero Hype! Boards

snipe

08-24-2003, 04:47 PM

It's nice that Bob Kane is acknowledged in all comics that Batman appears in. What about Bill Finger? Where's his credit? He did just as much for the character as Kane did and you never see his name in a credits page.
:mad:
Thank you, Mr. Finger, for fleshing out the thoughts, ideas, and dialogue that helped create the single most popular character in fiction ever.

Monstera

08-24-2003, 05:39 PM

Totally agree, yet what are Finger's exact contributions? Gotham City as we know it for one, right? And the Bruce Wayne persona?

NightwingWC

08-24-2003, 06:10 PM

nice avatar monstera.

incurock31

08-24-2003, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Monstera
Totally agree, yet what are Finger's exact contributions? Gotham City as we know it for one, right? And the Bruce Wayne persona?

Also the basic design for Batman. Kane wanted him to wear a domino mask (like Robin) and wear grey and red, with big wings. Finger said that grey and blue would work better, and designed the cowl, etc. That's just the gist of it. Finger and Kane should be credited as cocreators, and Finger does need more credit. :o

MJZ

08-24-2003, 08:01 PM

Yeah that Wizard article about Finger was quite enlightening. According to them, Kane was a real dick. I'm of the belief that Batman's really a Finger creation. Sure, Kane came up with the concept, but his was really just a Zorro knock-off. Finger added all the important stuff.

MJZ

Zilleraut #66

08-24-2003, 08:19 PM

Has anybody read the Wizard issue that had a huge Bill Finger article in it? It was such a great read and showed what a dick Kane really was.

Darthphere

08-24-2003, 09:17 PM

Lets all raise our Fingers in tribute.

snipe

08-24-2003, 09:32 PM

If someone could post that article, we would all most appreciate it.
[raises finger]

Captain America

08-24-2003, 09:40 PM

Yes, please post it, I can't get to a comic shop to get one.

[Raises Finger as well!]

akut401

08-24-2003, 10:13 PM

what wizard issue was it in? ill try scanning it....

The Watchman

08-25-2003, 12:35 AM

just reiterating...it was a great article, Id like to see Finger get the credit he deserves, he died broke...and Kane was a real dick. According to the article us Bat-Fans owe Finger more than anyone else, as it was his original ideas that made Bats what he is [Raises Finger]

The Batman

08-25-2003, 12:41 AM

God, I used to say "God bless you Kane" for creating Batman. Then, I realized the truth...

Sure, I knew Bill was a writer, but i never knew he created basically everything I love about Batman. All Bob really did is create the name and Bruce Wayne. But Bill shaped it, and he got nothing in the end.

Bob ripped off a lot a people. and everytime I see that "Created BY" byline, I get pissed off.

[Raises Finger]

snipe

08-25-2003, 12:56 AM

I've been inspired to change my sig. Spread the word and continue raising the Finger!

The Joker

08-25-2003, 01:31 AM

I wonder which one of there ideas the Joker originally was...I know he was based off the main character from the silent film The Man Who Laughs (who's face was carved into a permanent smile)...but I wonder which of them said "hey, that would be an interesting look for a villain"

dude love

08-25-2003, 02:05 AM

Actually Monstera I think Bill Finger is responsible for your avatar.

(Raises the Finger).

dude love

08-25-2003, 02:25 AM

Oh yeah if anyones interested check Wizard 134 for the article.

(Raises Finger the second time)

Monstera

08-25-2003, 04:42 AM

Consider me most enlightened. Please post any Finger info on the Web you can find, guys. This thread could be like the Finger database.

Monstera

08-25-2003, 06:30 AM

First result on a google search: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8580/billfing.html . I'll post more stuff that we may not already know about if I find it.

dude love

08-25-2003, 08:08 AM

There's a Silver Age Green Lantern villain called William Hand. A tribute to Bill Finger.

akut401

08-25-2003, 10:33 AM

http://www.picturedot.com/TempMailPic/79497_MailPic.jpg

akut401

08-25-2003, 10:34 AM

if these are too small (which they probably are or will be) im gonna type them out....

if anyone knows how to make the pics big on picturedot, tell me....

snipe

08-25-2003, 01:12 PM

I could read it just fine. Thanks for the scan, Akut!

akut401

08-25-2003, 01:15 PM

theres a whole lot more, but i tried them out and ya cant read the print....does anyone know how to get pics bigger?

Zilleraut #66

08-25-2003, 05:28 PM

For more golden age Batman info, check out this site. http://www.goldenagebatman.com/gabathistory.html By the way, in the honor of Bill Finger, I just typed this post hunting and pecking with the Finger. (Raises the Finger.)
I also found this at www.collectortimes.com.
Batman's unaccredited co-creator: Bill Finger
Bob Kane is known as Batmans creator. But is the Batman that you see wearing only wearing bright red costume, stiff black bat wings attached to his arms, a black domino (Robin style) mask? That was the Batman that Bob Kane created. It's Bill Fingers Batman that you know today.

William Finger was born February 8, 1914, in New York City. He attended a DeWitt Clinton High School, the same as Robert (Bob) Kane. The two never met as students as Bill Finger was a couple of grades ahead of Bob Kane. The two would meet later when Bill was a shoe salesman. The two had a mutual love of newspaper strips and comics. They read characters like The Shadow and Doc Savage. Kane and Finger would work together and create "Rusty and His Pals", a kid strip and later "Clip Carson", a world traveling adventurer.

In 1938, Superman would create a boom in the comic industry and DC would go looking for another hero. Bob Kane would come up with a character called The Batman. After creating this character he phone up Bill Finger, and showed him the sketch of the Batman. Finger felt the character looked too much like Superman and suggested some changes.

"I got Webster's Dictionary off the shelf and was hoping they had a drawing of a bat, and sure enough it did. I said, 'notice the ears, why don't we duplicate the ears?' I suggested he draw what looked like a cowl... I had suggested he bring the nosepiece down and make him mysterious and not show any eyes at all... I didn't like the wings, so I suggested he make a cape and scallop the edges so it would flow out behind him when he ran and would look like bat wings. He didn't have any gloves on. We gave him gloves because naturally he'd leave fingerprints."

Bill Finger also wrote some of the early Batman stories. In doing so, he created the personality of Batman and turned him into a great detective. "My idea was to have Batman be a combination of Douglas Fairbanks, Sherlock Holmes, The Shadow, and Doc Savage as well."

Finger went on to give Batmans alter ego the name of Bruce Wayne, and later named his sidekick Robin (Dick Grayson). He named Batmans hometown Gotham City, and contributed in the creation of many of Batmans villains. The Cat-woman, Penguin, Riddler, Two-Face, and Clay-Face were among them. While Bill Finger didn't create the Joker, he did write the first Joker issue in Batman #1.

Bill Finger really enjoyed mystery novels. He would often use that style of story in the Batman comics. He would also use giant props in the stories because they were good visuals for the readers. He often did the research that artist usually does for the prop scenes. He was very good in writing them, the artist didn't have to guess what was going on.

But throughout his career Bill always had a problem meeting deadlines. He once delivered a first page of a script stapled to a bunch of blank pages in order to get paid early.

Bill has worked on much more than just Batman, he created the original versions of Green Lantern and Wildcat with artist Irwin Hansen. He also went on to work on Superman, Superboy, Wonder Woman, Flash, Atom, Challengers of the Unknown, Tomahawk, and many others. He at one time worked for Marvel Comics and wrote Captain America and the All Winners Squad. Bill also did some work outside of comic books. He co-wrote the 1969 film "The Green Slime" and wrote for many Warner Brothers TV detective series of the 60's. Some included 77 sunset Strip, Hawaiian Eye, and The Roaring Twenties.

Also during the 60's Bill was one of the long time creators that DC fired when they asked for some health benefits. He later went back to work for DC in the 70's and wrote some a few mystery stories, he then died in 1974.

snipe

08-25-2003, 06:31 PM

Thanks for the above guys, the links (and article) give great insight to what really went on.
[raises the Finger]

fireman9586

08-25-2003, 09:29 PM

I always get annoyed when i see every comic have two creators and Batman has just Bob Kane. Finger was so important in the creation of Batman, that taking his name away is just like stealing. it should've always been "Created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger."

I raise the Finger

The Watchman

08-25-2003, 09:31 PM

Shuster and Siegel werent credited with Superman from the begining, you never know, one day these people may come to their senses and give Bill Finger the credit he deserves

akut401

08-25-2003, 09:46 PM

Quote from Wizard:

"Official credit may be out of the question. 'Short of adding his name to the credits, which I don't think can legally be done, I don't think there's anything DC can do,' says comic writer and historian Mark Waid. 'The Bob Kane estate is protected. Bob Kane's selfishness continues from beyond the grave."'

Apparently Kane had a foolproof document made up by lawyers that granted whenever Batman was in a comic, it had to be followed by a recognition to Bob Kane.....I guess the plan was so airtight that even if they put a "& Bill Finger" at the end, it would be illegal due to the Kane documents...

hulk181

08-26-2003, 03:01 AM

I'm raising my finger!

dude love

08-26-2003, 03:23 AM

"Official credit may be out of the question. 'Short of adding his name to the credits, which I don't think can legally be done, I don't think there's anything DC can do,' says comic writer and historian Mark Waid. 'The Bob Kane estate is protected. Bob Kane's selfishness continues from beyond the grave."'

How about having "This story is dedicated to Bill Finger" in every Bat-comic, it will also prompt more people to find out about Bill Finger.

The Joker

08-26-2003, 04:32 AM

yeah just put a "Dedicated To Bill Finger" in the byline of every bat-comic

akut401

08-26-2003, 10:32 AM

thats true......maybe you should get a petition going (like those ever work) or write to DC with ideas.....

emma_n22000

08-26-2003, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by lordsnipe
It's nice that Bob Kane is acknowledged in all comics that Batman appears in. What about Bill Finger? Where's his credit? He did just as much for the character as Kane did and you never see his name in a credits page.
:mad:
Thank you, Mr. Finger, for fleshing out the thoughts, ideas, and dialogue that helped create the single most popular character in fiction ever.
You bring up a pretty good point, J. Spider-Man's creation is credited to both Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, so maybe Mr. Finger should get a mention.

But seeing as they've both shuffled off this mortil coil, there's not much chance in anything changing. :(

snipe

08-26-2003, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by emma_n22000
But seeing as they've both shuffled off this mortil coil, there's not much chance in anything changing. :(

Many great artists and musical composers died penniless - their work only getting proper recognition after their deaths. I just want the man to get some credit for the contribution he made to pop culture and fiction in general.
Even in death it's nice to know someone appreciates you.

dude love

08-27-2003, 02:05 AM

Very good avatar Lordsnipe, much better than 'Gay Collar Nightwing'.

snipe

08-27-2003, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by dude love
Very good avatar Lordsnipe, much better than 'Gay Collar Nightwing'.

Check out the Nightwing History thread for some new Collar action images :)

Oh, and your sig is way too long. S'posed to be 3 lines or less. Wouldn't want someone to "mod-inate" you...

Darthphere

08-27-2003, 08:51 PM

What if we protest by making a pickett line in front of Dc comics executive offices and giving them the finger until they give poor Bill the recognition he deserves.By the way im serious.

fireman9586

08-27-2003, 09:40 PM

dude, DC is owned by Warner Bros. WARNER! you think they'd listen to fans!?

snipe

08-27-2003, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by fireman9586
dude, DC is owned by Warner Bros. WARNER! you think they'd listen to fans!?

Yeah, they're so dense they might be thinking we were giving them the "you're number one!" sign, not the "finger."
Now every time I buy a comic I feel like I'm downloading music off Kazaa - it feels like I'm pirating since the true creator isn't getting paid for it :(

dude love

08-28-2003, 06:04 AM

Oh, and your sig is way too long. S'posed to be 3 lines or less. Wouldn't want someone to "mod-inate" you...

Thanks for the warning milord. Whats "mod-inating"?. *runs overs to nightwing thread for some collar action*

Captain Dumas

08-28-2003, 09:15 PM

not much more to say, but yea, finger deserves credit for batman.

*raises the Finger*

CFE

08-31-2003, 12:29 PM

It's really a shame. To you, Mr. Finger (Raises the finger) :) . But Mr. Kane, the other one is for YOU, (Raises other finger!) :mad:

Jugsy

08-31-2003, 01:08 PM

well it's nice to see that tubid republican rich boy nazi' didn't just screw with Marvel:(

*raises finger*

snipe

08-31-2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by COMICFILMEXPERT
But Mr. Kane, the other one is for YOU, (Raises other finger!) :mad:

Let's not cruxify him - at least he came up with the idea.

Darthphere

08-31-2003, 06:11 PM

Yeah but he's a greedy bastard!

Catman

09-01-2003, 08:44 PM

It would be great for Bill Finger to be acknowledged, but it will never make-up for anything. You see Finger is dead and he's been dead since 1974. For this to mean anything he should have been credited when he was still alive. It would have been great that before he passed away he would not only gotten credit, but seen Batman return to his dark roots.

[RAISES FINGER]

By the way, Frank Miller does acknowledge Bill Finger. Notice how he usually writes "Special Thanks to Bill Finger" in his Batman comics.

We should all follow in Miller's steps and have it say "Batman Created by Bob Kane with a special thanks to Bill Finger"

ultimatefan

09-09-2003, 04:23 PM

I remember Year One was credited as "based on the works of Bob Kane, Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson".

Themanofbat

09-10-2003, 01:14 AM

It's too bad, but Bill Finger, who ghost-wrote all the early Batman stories, should be accredited with having co-created Batman with Bob Kane. It's been a controversial issue among many fans and the two men alike, the most famous being in 1965, when Finger claimed that he was the sole creator at a comicdom convention (Kane wasn't there to rebuttle) and it escalated into quite the feud. While Finger died in 1974, Kane has always maintained his "sole creator" stance. But in his 1989 autobiography, he seemed to give Finger something ressembling his due. The truth will never be known, but it will be certain that Bob Kane will be immortalized as the sole creator of batman.

:(

My personal opinion? I believe that Kane probably came up with the drawings and the art concepts, and he probably did get some writing help. It's not something I've given much thought to over the years, but I will always recognize Finger as his first writer.... and that's gotta be worth something.

Cheers... :batman:

That-Guy

09-11-2003, 12:14 PM

Well, if all of this is true than it sounds to me like all Kane was to Batman was what a Hollywood producer is to a film. He sat there, came up with an okay idea, and then Finger really developed it into something special. I raise the finger too.

kal_el28

09-12-2003, 06:09 AM

Finger also created Robin and many of the Batman's rogues gallery.

Bring on the Finger!
[raises the Finger]

BTW I like the idea of getting a whole heap of us out the front of DC saluting the Finger! - That'd be awesome.

BALE DAMMITT! - Oh yeah It's already happened!

Bow to my superiority Lordsnipe - it seems the circle is complete, the master has become the student!

snipe

09-12-2003, 07:59 AM

Finger Flash Mob! Ok - everyone meet at DC's home office today at 3pm CST! Bring your Fingers!

Captain America

09-12-2003, 08:52 AM

My dog ate my fingers

Motown Marvel

09-12-2003, 06:24 PM

[raises the roof...err...finger]

great thread snipe, you should bring this up in the film forum and maybe for the opening credits of the film we can get a 'batman created by bob kane with special thanks to bill finger' credit.

snipe

09-12-2003, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by marvel07
[raises the roof...err...finger]

great thread snipe, you should bring this up in the film forum and maybe for the opening credits of the film we can get a 'batman created by bob kane with special thanks to bill finger' credit.

Possibly someone who has an insider at WB (hint hint) could spread our word...and our fingers!

Oh, where was everyone during my "flash mob"? I was the only one who showed up :mad:

Darthphere

09-12-2003, 07:21 PM

I was busy! But ill be there next time you and I are an unstoppable duo who cant stop raising the finger!

Captain America

09-12-2003, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by lordsnipe
Oh, where was everyone during my "flash mob"? I was the only one who showed up :mad:

Originally posted by Captain America
My dog ate my fingers

:o

Motown Marvel

09-12-2003, 07:28 PM

I'll see what i can do snipe...but the thread in the film forum may still help.

and i was at the flash mob, i gave you the Finger and you beat me with a crowbar...i thought we were on the same side.

Darthphere

09-14-2003, 07:44 PM

I was watching Batman the New Adventures on Cartoon Network and the episode is called Legends of the Dark Knight. It was different stories about Batman told by kids one was DKR Batman and the other was early Batman and in the beginning special acknowledgements to stories by Frank Miller and none other than......

BILL FINGER!

Man was I excited at least he got a liitle recognition.

incurock31

09-14-2003, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by darthphere
I was watching Batman the New Adventures on Cartoon Network and the episode is called Legends of the Dark Knight. It was different stories about Batman told by kids one was DKR Batman and the other was early Batman and in the beginning special acknowledgements to stories by Frank Miller and none other than......

BILL FINGER!

Man was I excited at least he got a liitle recognition.

That always was one of my favorite episodes. I love how Paul Dini and Bruce Timm were able to work in nice little tributes like that.

Darthphere

09-14-2003, 08:01 PM

Yeah it was a cool episode because thats how I would be if Batman was real.

dude love

09-15-2003, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by lordsnipe
Oh, where was everyone during my "flash mob"? I was the only one who showed up

I was getting beaten up by WB security guards because the "flash mob" I went with didn't flash fingers.http://www.wzforums.com/images/smilies/ass.gif

BatmansIronFist

09-15-2003, 05:50 PM

*Raises the Finger*

BOO YAH!

Motown Marvel

09-16-2003, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by darthphere
I was watching Batman the New Adventures on Cartoon Network and the episode is called Legends of the Dark Knight. It was different stories about Batman told by kids one was DKR Batman and the other was early Batman and in the beginning special acknowledgements to stories by Frank Miller and none other than......

BILL FINGER!

Man was I excited at least he got a liitle recognition.

if i remember correctly, one of the kids in that epiode makes some absurd accusation about batman, and one of the other kids says something like, 'shut up, joel' hmmm...joel schumacher?

Motown Marvel

09-16-2003, 05:14 AM

lordsnipe,

i have been thinking more and more of this bill finger issue everyday, and i thank you greatly for bringing it to our attention. i am currently a senior in the illustration department at the center for creative studies (one of the top art schools in america) and i have plans to do art work for D.C. in the very near future. some of my teachers also used to work for D.C. and still have connections. i am telling you this because, using these connections, and once i start working for them, i will do everything i can to get bill finger the credit he deserves on the batman books. i will try my hardest to get a permanent 'with special thanks to bill finger' credit to go with the 'batman created by bob kane' credit that appears in every book. it will be quite the daunting task, but you can consider me on the job!

Raise the Finger!

snipe

09-16-2003, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by marvel07
lordsnipe,

i have been thinking more and more of this bill finger issue everyday, and i thank you greatly for bringing it to our attention. i am currently a senior in the illustration department at the center for creative studies (one of the top art schools in america) and i have plans to do art work for D.C. in the very near future. some of my teachers also used to work for D.C. and still have connections. i am telling you this because, using these connections, and once i start working for them, i will do everything i can to get bill finger the credit he deserves on the batman books. i will try my hardest to get a permanent 'with special thanks to bill finger' credit to go with the 'batman created by bob kane' credit that appears in every book. it will be quite the daunting task, but you can consider me on the job!

Raise the Finger!

That would rock! I alway knew there was something special about you.
now get me a position created called editor of continuity.

The Singularity

09-16-2003, 09:27 AM

Great thread. Things like this always take a lot to get resolved. Like Siegel&Schuster. Good thing some of the fans are aware of it through this thread.

I will gladly raise the Finger.

snipe

09-16-2003, 07:00 PM

I just dusted this off my bookshelf and am going to begin reading it when I get back from the gym tonight. Hopefully it'll shed some light on some things.
BTW: This book is also dedicated to the memory of Bill Finger and my dear friend Dr. Michael Zuekal

http://www.thebatsquad.net/batman/images/500/batman&me.jpg

Motown Marvel

09-16-2003, 11:07 PM

what issue of wizard has the article about bill finger? and what are some other resources that discuss finger's contributions to batman?

wagnerelli

09-17-2003, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by darthphere
I was watching Batman the New Adventures on Cartoon Network and the episode is called Legends of the Dark Knight. It was different stories about Batman told by kids one was DKR Batman and the other was early Batman and in the beginning special acknowledgements to stories by Frank Miller and none other than......

BILL FINGER!

Man was I excited at least he got a liitle recognition.

Alex Ross acknoledges it too in Batman:War on Crime.

incurock31

09-17-2003, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by lordsnipe
I just dusted this off my bookshelf and am going to begin reading it when I get back from the gym tonight. Hopefully it'll shed some light on some things.
BTW: This book is also dedicated to the memory of Bill Finger and my dear friend Dr. Michael Zuekal

http://www.thebatsquad.net/batman/images/500/batman&me.jpg

I read that. Kane was such an egoist....

The Watchman

09-17-2003, 10:44 PM

is it just me or does it look like Kane is happy becuase Batman has his hand in his ass? If it werent for finger, hed be on that cover with a Red Batman Zorro ripoff

Speedy

09-18-2003, 10:23 AM

Batman would be nowhere if it weren't for Bill Finger. Althought, I'm not to sure he created Robin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading that Sheldon Moloff came up with the idea for a boy sidekick for Batman, but Kane took credit for that too.

[Raises finger]

Motown Marvel

09-18-2003, 06:54 PM

okay...so i p.m'd nolan this message about bill finger hoping to get him a 'special thanks' credit in his film:

Dear Mr. Nolan,

As i'm sure you know by now, Batman was created by Bob Kane...somewhat. the original writer, Bill Finger, is almost as much responsible, if not more, for the dark knight character we know and love. i mean this not only when it comes to the story he created that established Batman's persona, but visually as well, as in the costume he wears. but bill finger is rarely given the credit he deserves due to legal issues that i am no where near qualified to explain. but what it all comes down to is, despite his major contribution to the creation of batman, he is not legally allowed credit as a co-creator (you will notice in any medium it always states 'Batman created by Bob Kane') But, he is allowed a 'with special thanks' credit...which brings me to the point of this message. When the opening credits of your film roll and the credit comes up saying 'Batman created by Bob Kane' you should add a very much deserved 'with special thanks to Bill Finger'. to gain a better understanding the contributions made by Bill Finger to the character Batman, click on this link which will take you to a thread in the comics forum where this issue has been thoroughly discussed:

Raise the Finger!

please Mr. Nolan, help 'Raise the Finger' to bring awareness to the credit Bill Finger deserves.

with much gratitude,
Marvel07

then today i have a response from him in my p.m. box, it reads:

The problem is that those legal issues you spoke of would also prevent me from giving Mr. finger any credit. I cannot just give credit to anyone, i can only give credit to those who legally have it or to those who have been given permission by the rights holders. In other words, the only way Bill Finger could recieve credit, is if both Warner Brothers and Mr. Kane's estate said it was ok to do so.

Thanks,

Christopher Nolan

I then responded to him with this:

Mr. Nolan.

Thank you for responding, and, i have come across a few comics where bill finger was given a 'with special thanks', such as Batman War on Crime by paul dini/alex ross, i also believe frank miller did the same thing in his Year One book. i believe you just cant credit him as a 'co-creator' legally. either way, see what you can do, and any attempt made would be appreciated beyond words by not only the fans but the family and friends who remember bill finger.

Thanks for everything,
Marvel07

lets hope nolan can do what he can and get the Finger raised!

The Watchman

09-18-2003, 07:59 PM

Assuming thats really Nolan, Im skeptical till its confirmed, although the guy has conducted himself well

dude love

09-19-2003, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by marvel07
what issue of wizard has the article about bill finger? and what are some other resources that discuss finger's contributions to batman?

Originally posted by dude love
Oh yeah if anyones interested check Wizard 134 for the article.

Motown Marvel

09-19-2003, 02:24 PM

thanks dude love :)

dude love

09-19-2003, 08:34 PM

No worries fughedaboutit.:)

Motown Marvel

09-20-2003, 12:04 AM

hey, just got another response from the nolan account...heres what he responded with:

Thanks "Marvel07", while we are far away from the point of production where we would create the credit screens, i'll keep Mr, Finger's contributions in mind

Thanks,

Christopher Nolan

and i wrote back with:

Mr. Nolan,

on behalf of the countless bat fans, thank you and we appreciate it very much. keep up the spectacular work, you have done a stunning job so far that has exceeded our expectations, i'm sure you will not disappoint.

Much Gratitude,
Marvel07

i hope this nolan account is for real.

snipe

09-23-2003, 02:12 AM

Guys, I've officially dedicated my site to Mr. Finger's memory in hopes that he will some day get credit for what he's done. Here's a little something I whipped up:
Finger Tribute (http://www.thebatsquad.net/batman/finger.htm)

Please don't quote this message if replying in case I move the page in the future.

dude love

09-23-2003, 02:48 AM

I just reread Batman: Year One and in it Bruce mentions a place called Finger memorial.

gniketariP

09-23-2003, 05:32 AM

I must remember to dig out my Batman graphic novels. They are still in the box after I moved house in February.

Monstera

09-24-2003, 03:00 PM

Good job, lordsnipe. Interestingly enough (or not), I picked up Vaz's Tales of the Dark Knight yesterday.

snipe

09-24-2003, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Monstera
Good job, lordsnipe. Interestingly enough (or not), I picked up Vaz's Tales of the Dark Knight yesterday.

It's a pretty good read http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

dude love

10-04-2003, 01:11 AM

Oh **** I made a booboo. The article is not in Wizard 134 it's in 135, my bad.

Motown Marvel

10-04-2003, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by dude love
Oh **** I made a booboo. The article is not in Wizard 134 it's in 135, my bad.

no worries, i found it.

Motown Marvel

10-04-2003, 09:49 PM

here's a photo for everyone!

http://www.picturedot.com/FetchImageJPG.asp?ImageType=P&ImageFormat=H&ImageID=84285

snipe

10-04-2003, 09:56 PM

Here's a little something I put together from the above image:

http://www.thebatsquad.net/batman/images/billfinger.jpg

Does anyone have any other pictures of him?

dude love

10-04-2003, 10:49 PM

Nice job snipe:)

Motown Marvel

10-04-2003, 10:57 PM

Snipe, thats amazingly awesome!!!

and thats the only picture of him i've ever found.

snipe

10-05-2003, 01:36 AM

Since marvel07 was nice enough to provide me with scans of the Wizard article, I thought I'd share it with the group. Enjoy...

The one mystery the Dark Knight Detective can’t solve? The riddle of his own creation.
Crack open the cover to any Batman comic – Batman, Detective Comics, World’s Finest, whatever – and you’ll find one commonality: The phrase “Batman created by Bob Kane.”
But Many insiders will tell you that this simple statement of seeming fact is every bit as fictional as the Bat-tale it introduces. At the very least, they’ll tell you the statement is incomplete. Oh, they’ll admit, sometimes grudgingly, that Kane should be there. But they’ll also tell you that you wouldn’t be reading the book today – hell, you probably even wouldn’t have heard of Batman – were it not for the contributions of another man.
Bill Finger.
Haven’t heard of him? You’re not alone. Finger’s cautionary tale is not well known, but it’s every bit as compelling as that of Batman himself.
“We’re all attracted to tragedy, and he’s a tragic figure,” says current Detective Comics writer Ed Brubaker. “He did so much so well for so long! He was the most inventive guy on the book, worked on it for decades, and in the end, it got him nothing.”
Just what did Finger do? At the very least, he wrote Batman tales for over 20 years, introducing the character in Detective Comics #27, penning the first Robin story in Detective #38, and introducing the Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Bat-Mite, and the very Batcave itself. At the most, he may have ensured that Batman existed at all.
DC Comics (then called National Periodical Publications) saw it had a hit on its hands when Superman debuted in 1938. The order came down to editors Whitney Ellsworth and Vin Sullivan: Bring us another long underwear-type. Ellsworth turned to Bob Kane, a 22-year-old cartoonist doing some humor strips for the publisher at the time, who drew up something called “The Bat-Man.” Kane’s design was influenced by Superman, Zorro, a silent film called “The Bat,” and a Leonardo da Vinci design of a flying machine. Kane’s original Batman wore red tights with a Zorro-styled mask, and had two stiff-looking wings mounted to the back of the costume. The mish-mashed combination didn’t wow anyone, Kane included.
Kane wasn’t sure if his design would pass muster, so he called an old high school classmate for a friendly chat and a second opinion, a man he knew to be a creative sort. He called Bill Finger.
The 25-year-old Finger came over to Kane’s apartment and agreed the design needed work. He set to that work immediately. Pulling a dictionary off Kane’s shelf, he opened to a picture of a bat. “Bill said, ‘Why not make him look more like a bat and put a hood on him, and take the eyeballs out and just put slits for eyes to make him look more mysterious?” Kane recounts in his 1989 autobiography, Batman & Me.
Batman’s domino mask changed into a full cowl. Finger also suggested making the color scheme darker. “Color it dark gray to make it look more ominous,” Kane recalls him saying. Finger also got rid of the wings, evolving them into Batman’s now famous cape. In mere hours, the Batman we all know today was born of Finger’s tinkering with Kane’s awkward design. If Kane was indeed Batman’s father, Finger was at least the doctor who delivered the baby – and probably prevented a dud.
DC loved Batman and immediately commissioned Kan to produce it. Kane, knowing Finger was up to the task and knowing Finger desperately wanted to be a writer, sub-contracted Finger to write Batman’s first story for Detective Comics #27. Kane also did something else: He got a contract.
Kane came from a well-to-do New York family with enough money to employ lawyers to nail down Kane’s interest in the character. Soon after the conception, Kane secured an ownership percentage in Batman and the ironclad legal guarantee that for now and forever, all Batman tales would start with the tag “Batman created by Bob Kane.”
Finger came from a poor background in the Bronx, and in fact had been bedridden for months with a case of scarlet fever as a child. It was there in bed, with nowhere to go, that he fell in love with reading. He devoured books by the dozens, and it became his lifelong dream to one day become a writer himself. When Kane made his fateful call to Finger, the writer was barely scraping by with a low-paying job as a shoe salesman. Given the opportunity to write for a living, He leapt at the chance. For the first six Batman stories, Finger was Kane’s employee, nothing more. It wasn’t until the seventh script that Finger got paid via DC. They may not have even known he existed at the time.
Batman was booming and Kane, realizing where his financial interests lay, hired a stable of artists to produce more material. The work was very collaborative. One day, Kane mentioned to Finger that Batman needed a boy sidekick. Finger said that he’d dream one up, and went out for a sandwich. By the time he returned, Kane and inker Jerry Robinson had already nailed a name: Robin. Finger then wrote the first Robin tale.
Similarly, Finger “found” the Joker for Kane to draw. Accounts vary as to if Kane or Robinson came up with the notion of the psychotic villain, but it was definitely Finger who delivered the visual. “Bill came in with a photograph of Conrad Veidt, who played in a movie called ‘The Man Who Laughs,’” Kane relays in Batman & Me. “Here’s a picture of the Joker character,’ Bill exclaimed. ‘Copy it and I’ll write the first Joker story.”
Kane, “a superb copyist” in his own words, copied; and Bill Finger wrote the Joker’s first two stories, in Batman #1 and #2. But every story, regardless of who wrote it, drew it, or came up with a new character, came out with the same byline: “By Bob Kane,” as per Kane’s contract.
“In the early days, only the originators put their names on the strips, regardless of whether they had ghost-writers or ghost-artists doing their features,” Kane says in Batman & Me. “I never thought of giving [Finger] a byline, and he never asked for one.” Still, as the originator and co-owner, Kane enjoyed healthy bonuses based on sales. Finger made his script rate of $12 a page, and still lived with his parents, helping his poor family make ends meet.
Finger wanted too desperately to be a writer; he would do anything to remain in his position, and rise out of poverty. “He was so overwhelmed that he was getting steady jobs that he never thought of anything else,” says Sheldon Moldoff, an artist who ghosted for Kane for 16 years. “He just wanted to be a writer. Bill was so happy he was working, he didn’t think about royalties, rights, any of that. He was very grateful to Bob.”
Perhaps too grateful. Golden Age artist Martin Nodell once visited Kane’s apartment with Finger in tow. “We rang the bell, and Bob Kane came to the door,” Nodell recalls. “When Bill entered the room, it was if he was greeting the king. Bill was bowing down, his hands out, just to say hello. That, in essence, was the way it was. Bill felt as if he had to condescend before Kane.”
The love was not returned. “Bob Kane never was a nice guy,” Moldoff says flatly. “He had a tremendous ego. If I came up with an idea, he had no problem stealing it and claiming it as his own. Was Bob generous to Bill Finger? No. Was he nice with him? No. Bob wasn’t nice to anybody.”
Finger, on the other hand, was known for his kindness and generosity. Jerry Robinson was only 17 years old, consumed by school all day and drawing all night, when he started in the Kane studio. Finger took the youngster under his wing. “Bill was very much my cultural mentor,” Robinson remembers. “He exposed me to potential. He brought me to museums, to fine movies. That inspired us both.”
Finger’s love of learning, born of his bedridden childhood, never stopped. “I don’t think he had a college education of any kind, but he was very auto-didactic, always self-teaching,” said 15-year Batman Editor Denny O’Neil, who credits Finger with mentoring him when O’Neil began his career in 1965. “He made notes constantly. He was very observational.”
Finger was famous for taking his job seriously. He kept huge files of articles clipped from newspapers and Popular Science. Whenever Batman needed a way out of a tough situation, Finger could refer to his files and find one. The technical wonders of the Batcave, with its computers, submarine pens, and Giant Penny, sprang from the imagination and files of Finger. Other comic writers of the time surely knew his importance. A Golden Age Green Lantern villain who pulled his crimes from a huge book of tricks was named “William Hand,” an obvious riff on Bill Finger’s name. But Finger was more than just a book of tricks. “He was one of the guys who showed us how to do this work in this new medium,” O’Neil maintains. “Comics were really brand-new at the time – the umbilical cord hadn’t even been cut. And Bill really understood, almost instinctually, how to do it. He really had a handle on writing for comics. I’ve seen some of [Superman co-creator] Jerry Siegel’s original scripts, and it was these two guys, Siegel and Finger, who really first understood writing for comics. They taught the next generation.
But that which made Finger great was also his downfall. Finger cared too much about his work, and refused to turn in a script until it was perfect. For a poor man who never made much money … this was a problem.
“Bill was the greatest comics writer of his time, and maybe since,” says Jerry Robinson. “But he was not a natural writer. Things didn’t flow from his pen. He really struggled every time.”
Finger once delivered a first page of a script stapled to a bunch of blank pages to an editor, hurriedly grabbing his check and bolting the office before his editor could see that the work wasn’t finished. Missing deadlines led to lack of income, which led to paralyzing fear, alcoholism, and more missed deadlines. By the mid-1950s, Kane had moved to California and was comfortably out of comics, with a massive studio producing work in his name. Finger still struggled, with both deadlines and money.
“The second Batman story he ever did for me [in the early ‘60s], I made him sign a little note that went roughly as follows: ‘I, William Finger, will not ask for the check for this story until I’ve completed it,” says longtime DC Editor Julius Schwartz. “He had a habit of always needing money, and before he’d finish a story, he’d ask for a check. And he was invariably late.”
By the mid-1960s, things were changing. New editors were coming in at DC, and Kane hadn’t been personally involved for years. Finger’s assignments dwindled away, and he fell off editors’ radar. Finger, once known as the best writer in comics, became almost an urban legend to new editors. He’d occasionally be seen haunting a bar, but no one would give him an assignment, faring certain deadline problems. By 1965, Finger was out of comics. He resurfaced very briefly writing mystery stories at DC in the early ‘70s, but at the time of his death in 1974, Finger had lost the only thing that really mattered to him. He wasn’t a writer anymore.
All that’s left today of Finger is his place in history – a place that’s largely misplaced. His contributions are lost to the mists of time, and the fact that Bob Kane had the power of an ironclad contract on his side.
“It’s impossible to tell exactly who created what anymore,” says Denny O’Neil. “The truth is, it’s 60 years since, and nobody really kept notes then. But I’ve spent a lot of time looking at Batman history. It was my main professional concern for 15 years. And near as I have been able to learn, Bill’s contributions were considerable.
Even Michael Uslan, the producer of the “Batman” movies and a close personal friend of Kane’s, agrees. “It was such a great creative effort by so many people over so many decades that really ‘created’ Batman,” Uslan says. “But you still have to look at Bill Finger as one of the two essentials. It’s Kane-and-Finger – and I say that in one breath – who were there at the beginning.”
Even Kane could give Finger his due. “I must admit that Bill never received the fame and recognition he deserved. He was an unsung hero,” Kane wrote in Batman & Me, which he dedicated, among others, to Finger. “I ran into Bill a year before he died in 1974. Bill was disheartened by the lack of major accomplishments in his career. He felt that he had not used his creative potential to its fullest and that success had passed him by.”
But crafting Batman is a major accomplishment, and more people are learning of the man behind Batman’s mask. Julius Schwartz has long been an advocate of getting Finger the credit he is due. O’Neil, too. “I certainly think he deserved more than what he got, both in terms of credit and in terms of money,” O’Neil says. “There was no way for me to get him money, because of the legalities involved. It may not be fair, but it’s the law.”
Official credit may be out of the question. “Short of adding his name to the credits, which I don’t think can legally be done, I don’t think there’s anything DC can do,” says comic writer and historian Mark Waid. “The Bob Kane estate is protected. Bob Kane’s selfishness continues from beyond the grave.”
Kane grew rich off Batman and lived a comfortable life until he passed away in 1998. Finger died an unfulfilled man, never enjoying the late-life accolades or money that did eventually come to Superman co-creators Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster.
“Siegel and Shuster are looked at as these guys who really got screwed until later in life. Bill Finger is like them, except he never got un-screwed,” says Ed Brubaker.
And Finger has left something more behind than just Batman for other creators to follow. “It’s a different scene,” Brubaker says. “If you write Batman right now and create a new character, regardless of the fact that Bob Kane created the comic, you would get money for that character. Chuck Dixon got money when they used Bane in the ‘Batman and Robin’ movie. The business is more human now.”
Finger also has a final, more chilling legacy, according to Brubaker. “The greatest thing, but also the most ****ed thing about Bill Finger is that if you’re ever in a situation where you’re worried that you’re not getting proper credit for what you’re doing, you can say to your editor, ‘Hey, I’m feeling like Bill Finger over here. And I don’t want to get Fingered.’ And they’ll understand. Everybody gets it. I guarantee it.”

Motown Marvel

10-06-2003, 12:39 AM

**tear drop**

XP NACHOS

10-06-2003, 10:40 AM

*raises the finger

Kevin Roegele

10-22-2003, 07:42 PM

http://www.twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/03kane.html

snipe

10-22-2003, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by Kevin Roegele
http://www.twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/03kane.html

I have to say that letter appears to be complete and utter bulls**t. There is too much documentation that refutes it. DC says Kane did very little of the artwork after Batman got off the ground, DC says Kane didn't write the stories. Kane's own autobiography states many of these truths. That letter was a man trying not to lose his grip on his kingdom - nothing more.
I never said Kane did not deserve credit, but there he takes way too much. If (and that's a big if) he wrote that letter, why would he completely contradict it in his autobiography. Autobiography is hard to say in his case, I'm sure since he's a creditmonger that he had little to do in its actual writing, but be damned sure that not a word of it got printed without his final say on it.

The Hero

11-06-2003, 05:02 PM

......wow..............this is some screwed up stuff.....:eek: :( :( :(

Clockers

11-15-2003, 03:31 PM

Unthinkable

11-16-2003, 01:03 PM

Damn. Time to put " Raise the Finger" in my sig.

wagnerelli

11-16-2003, 01:55 PM

I was reading Batman in the seventies today and it said in the front:

BILL FINGER
(1914-1974)
He taught us to dream and
laid the groundwork for a legend

jaydawg

11-16-2003, 09:32 PM

Thats it, I'm putting raise the finger in my sig.

Renegade

11-17-2003, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Unthinkable.50
Damn. Time to put " Raise the Finger" in my sig.

Hoorah! I agree :mad:

That-Guy

11-17-2003, 04:36 PM

Hey, glad to see this thread is still around. If you want to vote for it for "Best Thread" head on over to Bat-World and vote for it in the 2004 BatmanHype! Awards.

Gandalf

11-17-2003, 10:09 PM

*raises the finger* :) *to the TRUE CREATOR!*

snipe

11-17-2003, 11:24 PM

If some of you newer members are interested in more details, check out the Finger link in my sig. I've got some articles, quotes, and excerpts from various media on Mr. Finger and what he did for the Batman mythos.

ultimatefan

11-18-2003, 11:40 AM

Lordsnipe, I read the articles and Kane says that Finger never really requested any credit for his work on the creation of Batman. Is that right?

ultimatefan

11-18-2003, 11:41 AM

Oh, and he also said it was politics those days that only the artist received credit for the character´s creation.

snipe

11-18-2003, 08:32 PM

Yeah, from what I understand, Finger was so hyped that he was making a living as a writer (his life-long dream) that he didn't care if he got credit. They never thought their creation would turn into a world-wide phenomenon, so there was no reason (in his mind) to ask for a by-line.

Motown Marvel

11-19-2003, 01:06 AM

BUT, it would have been very generous, and just down right expected out of common courtesy, to give Finger the credit and respect that he so much deserved.

snipe

12-17-2003, 11:50 PM

Defender of Gotham is currently running an editorial on Mr. Finger:
http://www.defenderofgotham.net/notesfromthecave5.html

Crybaby10643

12-18-2003, 01:38 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/batman I was looking at this encyclopedia website and it had bob's and fingers "credits" to it witch I started to believe all encyclopedias have it.(of course)And I raise the FINGER DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Not only that you should see the vital statistics(witch are height,etc.) for batman at the middle when it says batman is 6 feet and 2 inches like christian bale when most people thought that 6 feet and 2 inches was to big and s*** like that.Good info. in a ency.

Unthinkable

02-22-2004, 10:38 AM

Bump, READ this Dammit! :mad:

comichistory

02-28-2004, 09:48 PM

Hi there, I'm Jamie Coville the one that wrote the Bill Finger bit on CollectorTimes.com and the geocities link.

I'm doing a new history of comics webpage and would like to get a bigger scan of the color Finger pic to use on the page. Can anybody help?

snipe

02-28-2004, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by comichistory
I'm doing a new history of comics webpage and would like to get a bigger scan of the color Finger pic to use on the page. Can anybody help?

Ask Marvel07, he's who I got the image from.

comichistory

02-28-2004, 10:28 PM

I would but you can't e-mail somebody via their profile! I'm hoping he reads this or I'll have to start a seperate thread just to get his attention.

snipe

02-28-2004, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by comichistory
I would but you can't e-mail somebody via their profile! I'm hoping he reads this or I'll have to start a seperate thread just to get his attention.

Use the http://www.superherohype.com/forums/images/sendpm.gif function under one of his posts.

akut401

02-29-2004, 11:19 AM

http://ee.domaindlx.com/AKut401/finger1.jpg

akut401

02-29-2004, 11:21 AM

http://ee.domaindlx.com/AKut401/finger2.jpg

akut401

02-29-2004, 11:21 AM

http://ee.domaindlx.com/AKut401/finger3.jpg

akut401

02-29-2004, 11:22 AM

http://ee.domaindlx.com/AKut401/finger4.jpg

akut401

02-29-2004, 11:23 AM

http://ee.domaindlx.com/AKut401/finger5.jpg

TheCorpulent1

02-29-2004, 10:29 PM

Wasn't there a sticky about not posting content from Wizard? :confused:

And most of those are upside down.

akut401

03-01-2004, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by TheCorpulent1
Wasn't there a sticky about not posting content from Wizard? :confused:

And most of those are upside down.

I didnt see one.

Good call on the upside down ones though :rolleyes:

snipe

03-01-2004, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by akut401

Good call on the upside down ones though :rolleyes:

POST OF THE DAY! :D

akut401

03-01-2004, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by lordsnipe
POST OF THE DAY! :D

:up: :D

btw, the reason i didnt post these earlier was because when i used picturedot the images were to small.....i just found a new site a couple of days ago, and when comichistory pmed me for em, i just scanned em quick and got em on here....

Captain America

03-02-2004, 01:47 AM

I just read the article from Wizard, that's very sad.. Finger really deserved something. But at least he died after living his dream.

It's good that post/present Batman writers know about Finger's devotion to the Batman mythos.

snipe

04-09-2004, 05:39 PM

I know talking about the movie script is taboo, but I'd heard a rumor early on that the mayor's name was going to be William Finger. Any truth to that? I've not read it - so no spoilers!

DSprangthlgnd

04-13-2004, 11:04 AM

[Raises the Finger]

It's way past time to give credit where credit is due.

batmanplaysbass

06-21-2004, 03:20 AM

Just thought this thread could use a bump. [Raises the Finger], Snipe you should make this a sticky

Dr. MIX

12-30-2004, 09:03 PM

...I know longer respect Kane as I used to, what a prick.

Dr. MIX

12-30-2004, 09:03 PM

*Raises the finger*

Darthphere

12-30-2004, 09:26 PM

Its awesome to see so many people giving respect to Bill Finger. Its like a revival, we need to do this more often.

Robin91939

12-30-2004, 09:28 PM

Raises finger

-R

The Demon's Head

10-04-2005, 01:08 AM

This threads needs to be Bumped.

Steel Spider

10-04-2005, 09:19 AM

And bumped it shall be!

*Raises the Finger*

Thank you Bill Finger for creating one of the greatest, if not THE greatest, comic book character of all time... Batman.

titan101

10-04-2005, 03:01 PM

i am SO sorry for the bob kane appreaciation thread.and to show that i am...(raises the finger)

Steel Spider

10-06-2005, 03:56 AM

Bump
Up
Mmmm
Pie

Steel Spider

10-07-2005, 05:35 AM

Bumpin'

Bat Attack

10-07-2005, 05:42 PM

Go finger!

Bat Attack

10-07-2005, 05:43 PM

I almost forgot! * Raises The Finger*

Wingman

10-29-2005, 06:41 PM

Wow, I had no idea about this.

The guy deserves a ton more credit.

*raises finger*

spencer6891

10-30-2005, 01:10 PM

So we must take credit away from one person in order to give credit to another? Interesting. I thought it was possible to give both their due credit.

Mister C

10-30-2005, 03:01 PM

I shall raise my finger as well

Spidey-Bat

10-31-2005, 09:09 PM

Bob Kane AND Bill Finger created Batman. Both contributed to the character and his legacy. But what many of you are forgetting is that if it wasn't for your so called "prick" there'd be no Batman to begin with. So both deserve equal credit for the character.

J J Rambo

10-31-2005, 09:55 PM

(Raises the fun finger to Bob Kane's Gravestone)

rondroid

11-01-2005, 04:57 PM

(Raises the fun finger to Bob Kane's Gravestone)
lol!! [raises the finger on both hands]

Timstuff

11-09-2005, 03:56 PM

If I ever get a chance at doing a Batman-related project professionally, I will insist that Bill Finger recieve co-creator credit!

Spidey-Bat

11-09-2005, 04:18 PM

If I ever get a chance at doing a Batman-related project professionally, I will insist that Bill Finger recieve co-creator credit!

Considering that both parties are dead and that it's already legal that Bob Kane created Batman, you're never gonna accomplish that.

ChrisBaleBatman

11-09-2005, 05:09 PM

(Raises the fun finger to Bob Kane's Gravestone)

How sad a thing to say..........

Bob Kane AND Bill Finger created Batman

EXACTLY......I think too many mis-informed people are just not getting it....

StreetFighter

11-10-2005, 01:10 AM

If I ever get a chance at doing a Batman-related project professionally, I will insist that Bill Finger recieve co-creator credit!
Yeah, you're never gonna get a chance at doing anything Batman-related. Nor altering a byline.

Bathead

11-10-2005, 02:49 AM

Motown Marvel

11-10-2005, 03:08 AM

Motown Marvel

11-10-2005, 03:11 AM

If I ever get a chance at doing a Batman-related project professionally, I will insist that Bill Finger recieve co-creator credit!

wont happen. theres nothing DC can do about that. the only people who could get it changed would be the kane estate...and good f**king luck with that (though, that shouldnt stop anyone from trying...im planning on working for DC in the near future, and i know i'll do what i can). although, what i HAVE seen done in comics before (i believe it was in the dini/ross batman war on crime) is "batman created by bob kane, with special thanks to bill finger"...therefore, he is not being credited for the creation, but still being recognized in some fashion.

Spidey-Bat

11-10-2005, 09:46 AM

and, if he truly wanted to, while he was still living, he could have gotten finger the credit he deserved so by line would always read "batman created by bob kane and bill finger"...if he wanted to, he coulda done that.

Or Finger could have fought for credit and royalties if he really felt he played a huge role in the creation of Batman :o

Motown Marvel

11-10-2005, 02:33 PM

Or Finger could have fought for credit and royalties if he really felt he played a huge role in the creation of Batman :o

bill finger wasnt the type of man to demand credit. not once did he ever bring it up to kane. not because he didnt want it or think he didnt deserve it, he was just the old fashion type of man who didnt ask for things. but, it would have been civil and generous of kane to give it to him once the character took off....kane died a millionaire. finger died penniless.

ChrisBaleBatman

11-12-2005, 04:26 AM

What all you Kane-haters need to realise is that what he did, when he did it (1930's, 1940's) was a common everyday event in the publishing world, and was not considered a scummy thing to do at all. A publisher would hire someone like Kane, who was not a writer, to do a project, and he would hire a writer, like Finger,sit down with him and discuss the project, throw ideas back and forth, and thw writer would then go and write the story, article or book. Then the primary (Kane, in this case) would take the credit and get paid, then he would pay the ghost-writer (Finger) a standard fee. It was understood by the ghost, he would get paid for his work, but not get any profit or credit should the project be successful. Kane wasn't a scumbag, he was a product of his times. The worst thing that could be said is that he was savvy enough to make sure he got a piece of the pie should Batman succeed. I agree that Finger should get credit, but let's not build him up by tearing down Kane. I'm sure even Finger himself would tell you that.

Yup.......

People like to ignore that batman was the begininng.......there were no such cases of "by line" problems b/c there had been no superheroes before batman other than Superman.......but, go ahead....ignorance is bliss I guess.

i half agree with you here. yes, this was standard practice. and no kane shouldnt be torn down, his contribution should be equally recognized. but..kane was still an assh0le. i've talked to numerous people who have met him, and they all pretty much said he was a jerk. and, if he truly wanted to, while he was still living, he could have gotten finger the credit he deserved so by line would always read "batman created by bob kane and bill finger"...if he wanted to, he coulda done that.

I've heard Finger was a total prick too.........but what does it matter?

I never hear about HOW Finger felt about all of it........it's like he didn't care. Am I wrong about that?

REAL fans know they both created Batman....that's all that matters.

wont happen. theres nothing DC can do about that. the only people who could get it changed would be the kane estate...and good f**king luck with that (though, that shouldnt stop anyone from trying...im planning on working for DC in the near future, and i know i'll do what i can). although, what i HAVE seen done in comics before (i believe it was in the dini/ross batman war on crime) is "batman created by bob kane, with special thanks to bill finger"...therefore, he is not being credited for the creation, but still being recognized in some fashion.

I hope to be a DC artist someday.....and I have no reason whatsoever to try and fight for Finger.....simply b/c DC cannot do anything. The Kane estate won't do anything.......would any other?

bill finger wasnt the type of man to demand credit. not once did he ever bring it up to kane. not because he didnt want it or think he didnt deserve it, he was just the old fashion type of man who didnt ask for things. but, it would have been civil and generous of kane to give it to him once the character took off....kane died a millionaire. finger died penniless.

Did you ever consider that Kane actually created batman? Not everything....but just the guy in the suit.....and he got credited with that.

Kane actually did feel guilty.....he said so before he died.

Maybe Finger didn't care? I mean.....it is possible, right?

Finger worked on other great characters like Green Lantern........I think him dying penniless couldn't have really been ALL Kane's fault.......I think Finger needs to take some blame atleast for that....

this is really a sad subject I think.....

JLBats

11-12-2005, 10:59 AM

I'm giving everyone the finger. Fingering galore.

JLBats

11-12-2005, 10:59 AM

Where the hell is my sig?

theMan-Bat

02-22-2006, 06:06 AM

theMan-Bat

02-22-2006, 06:15 AM

Or Finger could have fought for credit and royalties if he really felt he played a huge role in the creation of Batman :o

Bill Finger DID speak out about it publicly! Bob Kane said Bill Finger had "Hallucinations of grandeur. The truth is that Bill Finger is taking credit for much more than he deserves. The fact is that I conceived the Batman figure and costume entirely by myself. Was all my idea." He also said "If Bill Finger created Batman, where is Bill Finger 's byline?" http://www.twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/03kane.html"]http://www.twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/03kane.html

Darthphere

02-22-2006, 09:19 AM

*Keeps on Raising the Finger*

Motown Marvel

02-22-2006, 01:54 PM

Bill Finger DID speak out about it publicly! Bob Kane said Bill Finger had "Hallucinations of grandeur. The truth is that Bill Finger is taking credit for much more than he deserves. The fact is that I conceived the Batman figure and costume entirely by myself. Was all my idea." He also said "If Bill Finger created Batman, where is Bill Finger 's byline?" http://www.twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/03kane.html"]http://www.twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/03kane.html

and he later wrote in his memoirs that bill deserved credit. excerpts of those quites can be read at the link in my sig, or RAISE THE FINGER! (http://www.thebatsquad.net/finger.htm)

Spidey-Bat

02-22-2006, 03:19 PM

So Kane has admitted Finger deserves credit. What more do you ask?

Darthphere

02-22-2006, 04:11 PM

So Kane has admitted Finger deserves credit. What more do you ask?

That he get that credit.

ChrisBaleBatman

02-22-2006, 04:48 PM

Well, who's job is that get done?

The Dark Guybrush

02-22-2006, 05:03 PM

people should read the graphic novel BOX OFFICE POISON.. it is pretty much an ode to bill finger.

Spidey-Bat

02-22-2006, 07:39 PM

That he get that credit.

He gets credit from the people who matter. Isn't that enough?

CConn

02-22-2006, 07:42 PM

Well, who's job is that get done?DC.

Of course, Finger should've sued DC for credit about 50 years ago...

Darthphere

02-22-2006, 07:46 PM

He gets credit from the people who matter. Isn't that enough?

When you open up a batman comic it says created by Bob Kane. When in all factuality it was Bob Kane and Bill Finger. If it wasnt for Finger Batman would be some Zorro look a like. We just want him to get that co-creator tag.

Spidey-Bat

02-22-2006, 07:51 PM

When you open up a batman comic it says created by Bob Kane. When in all factuality it was Bob Kane and Bill Finger. If it wasnt for Finger Batman would be some Zorro look a like. We just want him to get that co-creator tag.
Do you really need to see the "Co-created by Bill Finger" to know he helped?

Mr. Socko

02-22-2006, 07:52 PM

I agree. It was Bill Finger who drew the first picture of the real Batman.

When you open a Batman comic book it should say "created by Bob Kane & Bill Finger."

Darthphere

02-22-2006, 07:57 PM

Do you really need to see the "Co-created by Bill Finger" to know he helped?

I dont know why you keep prodding but its the same thing as if you did a business presentation and worked on it with a buddy and when he turned in the report its missing your name giving your buddy full credit. But according to you, you dont need to see your name on the report to know you helped, and youd be just as happy watching your pal take credit for work both of you did.

Spidey-Bat

02-22-2006, 08:14 PM

I dont know why you keep prodding but its the same thing as if you did a business presentation and worked on it with a buddy and when he turned in the report its missing your name giving your buddy full credit. But according to you, you dont need to see your name on the report to know you helped, and youd be just as happy watching your pal take credit for work both of you did.
It was obviously ok with Finger, otherwise he would have taken legal action.

Darthphere

02-22-2006, 08:20 PM

It was obviously ok with Finger, otherwise he would have taken legal action.

Are you being dense on purpose? We never said Finger wanted it, for the msot part we want it for him. He deserves the credit and we'll keep saying so until he does. If you dont like the fact that were trying to give a man some credit here for a greatc character thats fine, but im not and otheres arent either.

CConn

02-22-2006, 08:30 PM

Are you being dense on purpose? We never said Finger wanted it, for the msot part we want it for him. He deserves the credit and we'll keep saying so until he does. If you dont like the fact that were trying to give a man some credit here for a greatc character thats fine, but im not and otheres arent either.So wait, going back to your business analogy...

If I wrote a report, and said I didn't want my name on it for whichever reason, you would go against my wishes and force my name onto the report?

I'm not saying that's the case with Finger, exactly, but my opinion has always been while he should be credited, since he (to my knowledge, at least) did very little to see that he got credit, I don't see why I, or anyone else, should have to bash down DC's doors in his honor.

Spidey-Bat

02-22-2006, 08:32 PM

Are you being dense on purpose? We never said Finger wanted it, for the msot part we want it for him. He deserves the credit and we'll keep saying so until he does. If you dont like the fact that were trying to give a man some credit here for a greatc character thats fine, but im not and otheres arent either.You call me dense yet I'm not one fighting to give a dead man credit when he obviously didn't want it when he was alive.

I have no problem with wanting to give Finger credit, but I don't agree with the means. This thread is mainly Kane bashing. If you all didn't realize there wouldn't be a Batman today had Kane not had his original idea, no matter how bad it may have been.

Darthphere

02-22-2006, 08:34 PM

Darthphere

02-22-2006, 08:38 PM

You call me dense yet I'm not one fighting to give a dead man credit when he obviously didn't want it when he was alive.

I have no problem with wanting to give Finger credit, but I don't agree with the means. This thread is mainly Kane bashing. If you all didn't realize there wouldn't be a Batman today had Kane not had his original idea, no matter how bad it may have been.

Batman as we know him today wouldnt exist if Bill Finger hadnt refined the character. There was a Wizard article a while back that talked about this and how Bill Finger actually helped create Batman. It was up here but since Wizard got pissy about posting stuff from their magaizine I guess it was taken down. Mostly he died very poor and struggled through life, while the Kane Estate to this day is raking up the big bucks with everything tht is Batman. Thats where my fight comes from, but as ive said and will say bluntly this time, if you have a pronlem with that thats fine, just dont expect me to stop giving Bill Finger credit.

Spidey-Bat

02-22-2006, 09:17 PM

Batman as we know him today wouldnt exist if Bill Finger hadnt refined the character.
Nor would he exsist if Kane didn't create the original idea.

Mostly he died very poor and struggled through life, while the Kane Estate to this day is raking up the big bucks with everything tht is Batman.
He should have fought for it ASAP.

Thats where my fight comes from, but as ive said and will say bluntly this time, if you have a pronlem with that thats fine, just dont expect me to stop giving Bill Finger credit.
I have no problem with your ends, just your means.

Darthphere

02-22-2006, 09:19 PM

Nor would he exsist if Kane didn't create the original idea.

He should have fought for it ASAP.

I have no problem with your ends, just your means.

If you dont believe me about the Wizard thing thats fine, it was announced and everything. What exactly are my means? Ive already admitted to doing nothing to actually make them do this, just an e-mail i sent over two years ago. So what are my means if I may ask?

Spidey-Bat

02-22-2006, 09:31 PM

degrading Kane in favor of putting Finger up on a pedestal

Darthphere

02-22-2006, 09:33 PM

CConn

02-22-2006, 09:44 PM

Well, to my knowledge nobody hasnt done anything equating to bashing DC's door down. It mostly sticks to this thread and the Raise the Finger in my sig. Apparently that bothers some people. On my part I worte an e-mail to someoen at DC like 2 years ago and havent really done anything since. Its not like were picketing outside DC's offices or anything like that. Its just discussion here within this thread mostly. I didnt know that bothered so many people.It doesn't bother me, honestly. I basically agree with you. Unlike you, instead of this thread being my first introduction to what Bill Finger deserves, mine was a bunch of guys who, as Spidey-Bat mentioned, bash Kane in favor of Finger. Now, I know that's not you, I know that's not what this thread is about, but still that negative, and wrong, vibe sorta gets lodged in your brain.

Spidey-Bat

02-22-2006, 09:49 PM

Thats your problem, not mine. If you actually read through the thread youll find bits and pieces of the article that talk about this. But ive doubt youve done that. And I dont degrade Kane at all, anytime ive said Kane sucks or hes a greedy bastard was in a joking tone. Without him we wouldnt have had the concept of Batman for him and Finger to collaborate on. I do give him credit but he gets credit eevry week when a new Batman comic comes out, Bill Finger doesnt.

I have read them once I pass through all the Kane bashing. I have no problem with you, it's all the posters who come here and ungratefully bash Kane just because the guy who made some changes to the design doesn't get credit.

Comicfilmer

02-22-2006, 10:02 PM

Batman wouldn't be Batman without Kane and Finger both. Both men deserve equal credit for creating the greatest comic book character to ever grace the ink and paper.

Darthphere

02-22-2006, 10:21 PM

I have read them once I pass through all the Kane bashing. I have no problem with you, it's all the posters who come here and ungratefully bash Kane just because the guy who made some changes to the design doesn't get credit.

Ok. Its all good then.:up:

CConn

02-22-2006, 10:46 PM

Batman wouldn't be Batman without Kane and Finger both. Both men deserve equal credit for creating the greatest comic book character to ever grace the ink and paper.Exactamundo.

Elijya

02-23-2006, 02:53 PM

that's because Wizard doesnt know about it, and I'd prefer to keep it that way. There's a chance they might not care, but there's a chance they would, as well

ChrisBaleBatman

02-23-2006, 02:55 PM

So wait, going back to your business analogy...

If I wrote a report, and said I didn't want my name on it for whichever reason, you would go against my wishes and force my name onto the report?

I'm not saying that's the case with Finger, exactly, but my opinion has always been while he should be credited, since he (to my knowledge, at least) did very little to see that he got credit, I don't see why I, or anyone else, should have to bash down DC's doors in his honor.

Agreed 1000%. My exact POV on this subject exactly.

Well, to my knowledge nobody hasnt done anything equating to bashing DC's door down. It mostly sticks to this thread and the Raise the Finger in my sig. Apparently that bothers some people. On my part I worte an e-mail to someoen at DC like 2 years ago and havent really done anything since. Its not like were picketing outside DC's offices or anything like that. Its just discussion here within this thread mostly. I didnt know that bothered so many people.

I don't think it bothers people per se.......although there are some dick heads out there that go out of they're way to offend Kane in the process.

I just think some people have misconceptions about how it all went down. As far as I know, Kane created the character........visually. Finger created Gotham, Gordon, I think even the Bruce Wayne persona was his and Kane's idea. Both men created the character...........most people seem to stay on one side of the fence.

Batman as we know him today wouldnt exist if Bill Finger hadnt refined the character. There was a Wizard article a while back that talked about this and how Bill Finger actually helped create Batman. It was up here but since Wizard got pissy about posting stuff from their magaizine I guess it was taken down. Mostly he died very poor and struggled through life, while the Kane Estate to this day is raking up the big bucks with everything tht is Batman. Thats where my fight comes from, but as ive said and will say bluntly this time, if you have a pronlem with that thats fine, just dont expect me to stop giving Bill Finger credit.

Why didn't he sue?

I have read them once I pass through all the Kane bashing. I have no problem with you, it's all the posters who come here and ungratefully bash Kane just because the guy who made some changes to the design doesn't get credit.

Yeah, I with you on that.

I think we ALL need to remember......Batman was really the SECOND SUPERHERO made.....it was uncharted territories. There were no rule books on by lines and there were no guy rules on who gets credit. Nobody would have imagined that any of those characters would become icons.

I think there was a quote from the Documentary of the History of the Batman on the BATMAN SE DVD......someone said on it that for characters like this, the creation blongs to the man that got the original concept....everyone else only adds and helps define the character.

etrigan69

02-24-2006, 03:51 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/etrigan69/BATSFINGER.jpg

super85

02-26-2006, 10:57 AM

DC recently said that they can't even send royalties from Fingers credited Batman-work (Finger is credited as scripter/writer in the Batman Archive collections) to anyone since Finger has no family or relatives. A byline would be great, but the Kane estate seems to be against it.

ChrisBaleBatman

02-26-2006, 07:39 PM

Obviously.

super85

02-26-2006, 07:46 PM

theMan-Bat

02-26-2006, 08:10 PM

Don't know if you guys have talked about this already,but I heard (note heard,not sure if its true) that the reason you can't find the Deluxe edition of Batman Begins with the comicbook dc included anymore is becouse of the Kane estate *****ing about DC writing "Written by Bill Finger Art Bob Kane" on the Reprint of TEC #27. A few DVD sites lists the Deluxe edition as discontinued.

Batman Chronicles volume one and Batman Archives and Batman: The Dark Knight Archives all say "Written by Bill Finger" and there not out of print. They still don't give him his co-creator credit but at least the public can now see that Bill Finger (not Bob Kane) wrote Batman from the start and Bob Kane was just the artist.

Darthphere

02-26-2006, 09:02 PM

Batman Chronicles volume one and Batman Archives and Batman: The Dark Knight Archives all say "Written by Bill Finger" and there not out of print. They still don't give him his co-creator credit but at least the public can now see that Bill Finger (not Bob Kane) wrote Batman from the start and Bob Kane was just the artist.

For the record. Bill Finger has always been credited for the stories he wrote. Thats not in question at all.

super85

02-26-2006, 09:24 PM

I'm just guessing here, but it seemed, judging by the rumour(if thats something to judge..) that they disliked such a high-profile thing as the DVD giving credit to Finger. The fact that Finger, Moldoff, Robinson etc are credited in the archives and cronicles isn't as "mainstream". There's a few thousand people buying the Arcives,and millions buying the DVD.

But again, I just typed what I heard. It hasn't been confirmed that "The Kane Estate gets pissed of at Batman Begins deluxe edition"

theMan-Bat

02-26-2006, 10:43 PM

For the record. Bill Finger has always been credited for the stories he wrote. Thats not in question at all.

Wrong, he was not credited. He did not see his name in print on the Batman comics he wrote. All they said was "by Bob Kane". There was no mention of writer Bill Finger, writer Gardner Fox, artist Jerry Robinson, etc. So an average reader thought Bob Kane created, wrote and drew Batman all himself.

Darthphere

02-26-2006, 11:01 PM

Bathead

02-26-2006, 11:42 PM

Wrong, he was not credited. He did not see his name in print on the Batman comics he wrote. All they said was "by Bob Kane". There was no mention of writer Bill Finger, writer Gardner Fox, artist Jerry Robinson, etc. So an average reader thought Bob Kane created, wrote and drew Batman all himself.

I can attest to that.
I started reading Batman in the pre-Adam West years, and all I knew was the "Created by Bob Kane" logo on the front page of every Batman comic. It wasn't until a few years ago, when I first went going online and reading various Bat-forums, that I discovered the truth. I had never heard of Dick Sprang or Jerry Robinson, let alone Bill Finger. When I was reading comics from the sixties up thru the early seventies, those names (and others who worked on a plethora of other DC comics) were never mentioned.
I think it might have been Marvel that was the first publisher to start crediting their creators on a regular basis in the sixties. DC didn't start doing that until the seventies.
(CORRECTION)
After thinking about it some more, I now remember that DC *did* start crediting it's creative people during the early sixties, right around the time of the "New Look" Batman and the TV show. But people like Bill Finger who were part of the previous decades were only known to industry insiders.

theMan-Bat

02-27-2006, 12:07 AM

I dont know what comics youre reading man.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/themanbat/byline.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/themanbat/1det1b.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/themanbat/Batman001-0120The20Legend20of20the2.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/themanbat/1joker1.jpg
Bill Finger was not credited. He did not see his name in print on the Batman comics he wrote. All they said was "by Bob Kane". There was no mention of writer Bill Finger. They should have said "by Bill Finger & Bob Kane".

super85

02-27-2006, 12:05 PM

Yup. Finger/Robinson/Sprang/Moldoff etc got their names on the credits on reprints, Im not sure if it was the Archives that started this first,or did earlier reprints already have them credited. I believe DC started to put the writers names in the regular books in the 60s.

Darthphere

02-27-2006, 12:14 PM

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/themanbat/byline.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/themanbat/1det1b.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/themanbat/Batman001-0120The20Legend20of20the2.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/themanbat/1joker1.jpg
Bill Finger was not credited. He did not see his name in print on the Batman comics he wrote. All they said was "by Bob Kane". There was no mention of writer Bill Finger. They should have said "by Bill Finger & Bob Kane".

Wow, thanks for showing me this man. Where did you get these?

I have a couple of issues of Batman that Bill Finger was on but never actually noticed that.

theMan-Bat

02-27-2006, 01:42 PM

Wow, thanks for showing me this man. Where did you get these?

I have a couple of issues of Batman that Bill Finger was on but never actually noticed that.

Batman Chronicles. http://www.dccomics.com/graphic_novels/?gn=2711
Highly recommended.
http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/2711_400x600.jpg

snipe

05-27-2006, 11:53 PM

I dont know what comics youre reading man.

Read through this. I've gathered quotes, etc. from here and there. He was not given credit for writing the stories until much later.
http://www.thebatsquad.net/finger.htm

Now that my long-time friend and collaborator is gone, I must admit that Bill never received the fame and recognition he deserved. He was an unsung hero. Because he came into the strip after I had created Bat-Man, he did not get a by-line. Only later, in the seventies, after he was no longer writing the strip and some of his stories were getting reprinted, did he receive credit. I never thought of giving him a by-line and he never asked for one. I often tell my wife, if I could go back fifteen years, before he died, I would like to say "I'll put your name on it now. You deserve it."

ChrisBaleBatman

06-02-2006, 06:02 PM

I wonder....do all those who stand for Finger hate Kane?

Personally...I hold BOTH men as the creators of Batman.

Spidey-Bat

06-02-2006, 07:02 PM

I wonder....do all those who stand for Finger hate Kane?

Personally...I hold BOTH men as the creators of Batman.

Probably not, but it's popular to bash Kane in favor of Finger. I'm sure Finger would LOVE it that fans were calling Kane a greedy bastard because he never gave Finger any credit. That's what he wanted after all:rolleyes:

ChrisBaleBatman

06-02-2006, 10:16 PM

What I'm confused about is wheter or not Finger ever cared......I keep hearing that he never claimed anything, but other around him.

Darthphere

06-02-2006, 11:35 PM

Probably not, but it's popular to bash Kane in favor of Finger. I'm sure Finger would LOVE it that fans were calling Kane a greedy bastard because he never gave Finger any credit. That's what he wanted after all:rolleyes:

Hes a greedy bastard for a lot more other thing. And by greedy bastard I mean intelligent businessman.:D

batmaluco

06-03-2006, 02:00 AM

lol

snipe

06-03-2006, 12:07 PM

What I'm confused about is wheter or not Finger ever cared......I keep hearing that he never claimed anything, but other around him.

The times were different back then. Finger's dream was always to write, and he was happy doing that. Society wasn't as creator oriented at that time - no one ever got credit on covers, etc.

ChrisBaleBatman

06-03-2006, 03:11 PM

Hes a greedy bastard for a lot more other thing. And by greedy bastard I mean intelligent businessman.:D

Well, most GOOD businessmen are greedy.....lol

The times were different back then. Finger's dream was always to write, and he was happy doing that. Society wasn't as creator oriented at that time - no one ever got credit on covers, etc.

Yeah, see that's something to really think about. Superman and Batman were the first superheroes.......nobody ever thought they could make money off these "funny books".

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but alot of these things out after the fact, didn't it? That is....once Batman made it big. I know there's some allegations as to who created the Joker (with Finger and Kane had claimed they both did....or something, it seemed like an odd situation.)

I dunno....kinda tough for me hate on Kane. And I'm looking at this from the POV that Finger really created alot of things....like Gotham City, for example.....Gordon....

Kool-Aid

06-04-2006, 02:57 AM

Sucks he didn't get credit for it. He'll be remembered regardless though for being co creator. Most people don't even know who Kane is I bet...as far a causual readers and people who just know of the character from movies and such. I didn't till last year.

[raises the Finger]

ChrisBaleBatman

06-04-2006, 04:55 PM

Well, real Batman fans know about Finger.....and I like to think most Bat-fans are conscious enough to know that BOTH men created the character. Funny too.....I see this situation ALMOST like the whole Stan Lee thing.

Everyone thinks that Stan Lee just created every Marvel character, and just **** the artist. Artists do have a bearing.....but most people don't seem to care. You never hear any mention anywhere of the artists like Steve Ditko or Jack Kirby.

Personally, I don't blame Kane. I blame DC Comics. There are loop holes through these things.

They could have the print say Batman created by Bob Kane.
Related characters and surroundings created by Bob Kane AND Bill Finger.

See what I mean? DC could find a loop hole in there, like that....They just don't want to.

bulok

06-07-2006, 09:47 AM

Thing is, if Bob Kane really cared as he suggested in his quotes, why wait to do it post humously? Why not do it while the man's alive??

what a chode.

Spidey-Bat

06-07-2006, 03:52 PM

Thing is, if Bob Kane really cared as he suggested in his quotes, why wait to do it post humously? Why not do it while the man's alive??

what a chode.

The problem wasn't Kane, it was DC.

ChrisBaleBatman

06-07-2006, 09:15 PM

Yeah, I blame DC.

ZERO

06-08-2006, 09:49 AM

Damn Straight! It Should Be By Bill Finger And Bob Kane. If It Wasnt For Bill Finger We Would Have Birdman Not Batman. Bob Kanes Original Concept Was An Equivlant To A Sprite Recolor. He Was Superman.

ChrisBaleBatman

06-08-2006, 07:17 PM

I still credit Kane for continually drawing and defining Batman VISUALLY. Finger defined Batman LITERICALLY.

droogiedroogie2

10-29-2006, 03:43 PM

Probably not, but it's popular to bash Kane in favor of Finger. I'm sure Finger would LOVE it that fans were calling Kane a greedy bastard because he never gave Finger any credit. That's what he wanted after all:rolleyes:Regardless of whether Finger wanted it, Finger's lack of credit is DIRECTLY due to Kane's greed. So, yes, I'll be blaming Kane for that. Kane gets eternal credit, and his estate gets eternal royalties, basically for coming up with a name. Everything else was Finger.

droogiedroogie2

10-29-2006, 03:46 PM

Thing is, if Bob Kane really cared as he suggested in his quotes, why wait to do it post humously? Why not do it while the man's alive??

what a chode.More importantly, why not change the contract so that future publications of Batman product would have the line, "Batman Created By Bob Kane and Bill Finger"?

droogiedroogie2

10-29-2006, 03:47 PM

I still credit Kane for continually drawing and defining Batman VISUALLY. Finger defined Batman LITERICALLY.That's just not true. The definitive classic Grey-on-Black Batman is a Finger invention.

droogiedroogie2

10-29-2006, 03:47 PM

The problem wasn't Kane, it was DC.Except it was Kane that got a contract giving him exclusive credit/royalties to all Batman products in perpetuity...so where is DC at fault here?

Spidey-Bat

10-29-2006, 03:58 PM

Way to post to a 4-month old thread.

Take the stick out of your ass about this issue. If you blame Kane and call him a greed bastard, you don't deserve to be a Batman fan. Yes, Finger should be credited but Kane submitted the idea prior to the changes made by Finger, so Kane got the credit.

ChrisBaleBatman

10-29-2006, 05:29 PM

My point about Kane defining Batman visually was that Kane drew him in the book. He didn't create the costume. But, he made it work visually panel after panel and got the art in there.

I'm surprised DC doesn't try and give Finger credit for anything. Jesus, Gotham City, Jim Gordon...anybody. Give him something.

But, DC is trying to sweep it all under the rug.

Btw, nice way to dig up an ancient thread.

Spidey-Bat

10-29-2006, 06:30 PM

He's dead so there's really no point. And if they did, just imagine all the money they'd owe his family from the past.

super85

10-29-2006, 07:09 PM

I think I've mentioned this here already, but hey.

A) Bob Kane's contract was and is such that it will always credit him as the sole creator of Batman. Back in the mid to late 60s he was still claiming that he wrote and drew most of the Bat-comics himself. This was of course false.

B) DC Comics have stated that there sadly isn't any family on Bill Fingers side to pay royalties to.

C)I heard a rumor that The Kane estate got p*ssed of becouse DC had credited Bill Finger as the writer of the Batman-reprint comic that was in the 2 disc Batman Begins set,and supposedly that's the reason you can't easily find it anymore. Don't know how much of this is true.

Spidey-Bat

10-29-2006, 07:18 PM

A) He did draw and write most of the comics.

B) That's not Kane's fault or it's a lie by DC.

C) I doubt it, but if it is true then DC broke the contract.

droogiedroogie2

10-30-2006, 04:45 AM

Way to post to a 4-month old thread.Thank you. It was difficult, but I managed.

Take the stick out of your ass about this issue. If you blame Kane and call him a greed bastard, you don't deserve to be a Batman fan.Oh no. Well, I guess that's that. No more liking Batman for me. Dern.

Yes, Finger should be credited but Kane submitted the idea prior to the changes made by Finger, so Kane got the credit.Thanks for the primer. I was already aware of this.

droogiedroogie2

10-30-2006, 04:46 AM

Btw, nice way to dig up an ancient thread.Well, another thread linked over to a website that linked back to this thread, and realizing that I already posted at this forum a goodly amount, I figured I'd resurrect 'er. I've been congratulated enough. Really, much as the accolades warm my heart, they're undeserved. I couldn't have done it without the little people.

droogiedroogie2

10-30-2006, 04:48 AM

I heard a rumor that The Kane estate got p*ssed of becouse DC had credited Bill Finger as the writer of the Batman-reprint comic that was in the 2 disc Batman Begins set,and supposedly that's the reason you can't easily find it anymore. Don't know how much of this is true.That'd be right childish if it was true, wouldn't it?

super85

10-30-2006, 06:17 PM

That'd be right childish if it was true, wouldn't it?

Yes it would,but cases like these stuff like this isn't unheard of. The whole "protecting the name!!!" thing.

droogiedroogie2

11-01-2006, 01:06 AM

Yes it would,but cases like these stuff like this isn't unheard of. The whole "protecting the name!!!" thing.Guess it just proves that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Cobblepot

01-09-2007, 01:07 PM

Raise your Finger one more time!!

Bat Attack

01-10-2007, 02:19 PM

*Raises Finger*! :mad::up: Stay strong people!

Two-Face

01-10-2007, 04:41 PM

*Raises Finger* :up:

DocLathropBrown

01-10-2007, 05:46 PM

*Raises the Finger and holds a Kane*

-- Well, it was lame, but can you blame a guy for trying?

Cobblepot

01-11-2007, 02:55 AM

I feel bad for Bill Finger.

dude love

01-11-2007, 09:53 PM

My Finger is still raised, and has been raised for many years.

Nepenthes

01-12-2007, 12:13 AM

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g74/ngorsh01/williams_ledgercopy.jpg

Cobblepot

01-12-2007, 02:27 AM

Ledger raises the finger. Who's the dwarf?

Super_Child

01-12-2007, 06:10 PM

*Raises the finger*

Spidey-Bat

01-12-2007, 06:17 PM

Ledger raises the finger. Who's the dwarf?

His wife :o

Bat Attack

01-12-2007, 10:38 PM

I thought it was a little girl...woops. :o

Nepenthes

01-13-2007, 05:30 AM

Ledger raises the finger. Who's the dwarf?

The other girl from Dawsons Creek

...who would also make an excellent Jokers wife as seen in The Killing Joke and Brokeback mountain. They're very similar!

snipe

01-13-2007, 06:04 PM

I still credit Kane for continually drawing and defining Batman VISUALLY.

Kane actually had a studio where he paid artists to do his work. He was often given artist credit on stories he had no part in producing.

batmaluco

02-05-2007, 07:04 AM

Raises the Finger! once again:
http://www.whatacharacter.com/a-f/b1004007.jpg

Arkady Rossovich

02-05-2007, 09:48 PM

BatScot

02-08-2007, 12:57 AM

Yeah, see that's something to really think about. Superman and Batman were the first superheroes.......nobody ever thought they could make money off these "funny books".Well that's just not the case, even at the onset, people like Jack Liebowitz thought there was plenty of money to be made... and he did.

BatScot

02-08-2007, 01:03 AM

[Kane] did draw and write most of the comics.Kane didn't even write his own signature on most of the comics let alone a script... or most of the art work.

Cobblepot

02-08-2007, 02:03 PM

His wife :o

Go figure...