Speed fastest reflexes / over ground / travel period.

[Varient]

Reading MindWorm trying to school sumbody on the diff between Silver Surfer and the Flash, I realized that the Newbies don't make the distinction.

So I'm opening the floor with my opinion, feel free to argue,..I'll win anyway,..but hey it'll be fun.

Fastest reflexes?
Different classes based on closest to human norm.
Spidermans a good example.

I currently believe that Wally West has fastest reflexes, even though zoom2 is faster by leaps and bounds,..mostly becuase Zoom2 is outside of time in aplication of his "SuperSpeed"

Fastest speed over ground?
Again different classes based on the need to have something to push against.
In Marvel Quicksilver on the ground, Angel or Storm in the Air, and in DC Flash on the Ground, HawkMan or Superboy in the air.

Some speeders are only fast under certain conditions.

Fastest overall travel period?

Now you get into folk who crowd or exceed lightspeed.
In DC, GL appears to make some sort of jump gate to travel long interstellar distances, Superman Doesn't appear to be able to break the light barrier, Flash? I honestly don't know,..A lot of his feats don't require him to break lightspeed barrier.

In Marvel too many beings including Thor can move in a straight line faster than light.

but Silver Surfer is an no brainer in this department.
he does multiples lights,..and can weave through an asteroid field doing it.


okay,..lets argue.

[Guyverjay]

argue what:confused:

[Varient]

Originally posted by guyverjay
argue what:confused:
So you agree with me?

Cool.

That was easy,....

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Varient
So you agree with me?

Cool.

That was easy,....

well yeah apart from thor going at light speed I do, he not that fast

[Varient]

Originally posted by guyverjay
well yeah apart from thor going at light speed I do, he not that fast
Hmmn,..I remember him playing catchup after the skrulls or the kree,..that he ran down one of their battlecruisers at multilight speeds,..It was an Avengers comic,.....

[Guyverjay]

Originally posted by Varient
Hmmn,..I remember him playing catchup after the skrulls or the kree,..that he ran down one of their battlecruisers at multilight speeds,..It was an Avengers comic,.....

Thor techicaly doesn't even fly. He throws his hammer and it carries him along. He travels quickly by opening portals in a space using his hammer

[Eyeballing]

Originally posted by Varient
Reading MindWorm trying to school sumbody on the diff between Silver Surfer and the Flash, I realized that the Newbies don't make the distinction.

So I'm opening the floor with my opinion, feel free to argue,..I'll win anyway,..but hey it'll be fun.

Fastest reflexes?
Different classes based on closest to human norm.
Spidermans a good example.

I currently believe that Wally West has fastest reflexes, even though zoom2 is faster by leaps and bounds,..mostly becuase Zoom2 is outside of time in aplication of his "SuperSpeed"

Fastest speed over ground?
Again different classes based on the need to have something to push against.
In Marvel Quicksilver on the ground, Angel or Storm in the Air, and in DC Flash on the Ground, HawkMan or Superboy in the air.

Some speeders are only fast under certain conditions.

Fastest overall travel period?

Now you get into folk who crowd or exceed lightspeed.
In DC, GL appears to make some sort of jump gate to travel long interstellar distances, Superman Doesn't appear to be able to break the light barrier, Flash? I honestly don't know,..A lot of his feats don't require him to break lightspeed barrier.

In Marvel too many beings including Thor can move in a straight line faster than light.

but Silver Surfer is an no brainer in this department.
he does multiples lights,..and can weave through an asteroid field doing it.


okay,..lets argue.

First of all i KNOW your NOT calling me a NEWBIE, for ONE ive been here longer than you check the dates. Two jsut because i ask SOMEONE'S OPINION doesn't mean i AM a newbie to comics, i jsut might not be as well informed as others on certain topics, aslo it seemed to me that MINDWORM schooled YOU on this topic earlier so you have no right to say anything to me when YOUR the one that got taken to class :D

Anyway dont take that to hear or to seriously but as far as your topic goes Marraki IS the fastest in THE MARVEL U not counting beings that can space or time jump then it's the runner after that i would think its Chrome Dome but im not 100% sure

Reflexes more than likely one of the flash's but again im not 100% and in Death of superman Booster Gold says that DD moves faster than the Flash i dont know how true this statement is but in terms of reflexes DD COULD be up there

[Elijya]

the people with the fastest overall travel capabilities are Lila Cheney and Pip, both can teleport on an intersteller level

[Guyverjay]

Its pretty obvious he isn't including teleporters:o

[Elijya]

hey, he said "Fastest overall travel period?" which just means how long does it take you to get from point A to point B regardless of the method, so I says teleporters are fair game

[TheCorpulent1]

well yeah apart from thor going at light speed I do, he not that fast
Thor could travel faster than light early on in his canon appearances, but it was all travel speed and they never really bumped his reflexes up to match it, so it was kind of forgotten. I'm pretty sure his reflexes are around Spider-Man's level or just below him, though.
hey, he said "Fastest overall travel period?" which just means how long does it take you to get from point A to point B regardless of the method, so I says teleporters are fair game
Didn't Wally beat the JLA teleporter once or something?

[Guyverjay]

Whie I don't doubt he has better reflexes then a normal man, I doubt they compare to Captain Americas let alone Spideys

[Elijya]

dunno, haven't read enough JLA. But Lila and Pip way outclass every other teleporter, whether it be a person or a device

[Guyverjay]

Apart of Aza chorn, I don't know a teleporter better than my guy CHUNK

[TheCorpulent1]

Shouldn't Pip technically outclass everyone else? Those Infinity Gems are worthless.

[SuGarRush]

I'm sorry, my brain must be on autopilot today, who the heck is DD in the DC universe?

[TheCorpulent1]

Doomsday.

[SuGarRush]

wow, and I feel like a moron.... Should'a known that.

Dooms I dunno if could move faster than the Flash, he may have the ABILITY to, but does he have the perceptions? We all know Flash THINKS at those speeds so everything seems slow to him, but does DD or can he just move that fast?

[TheCorpulent1]

Wasn't Wally slower back in the Death of Superman time period? I don't think Doomsday could move faster than Wally now.

[SuGarRush]

that would explain it corpulent, Wally has sped up in the last couple years, so yeah, that would make a lot of sense.

[TheCorpulent1]

The only bad thing about speedsters is that when they get up to Wally's level, virtually every enemy of theirs who's not a speedster him- or herself requires a massive amount of suspension of disbelief to swallow as a real threat.

Zoom, the Top, Gorilla Grodd, etc. would be fine, since they all have some gimmick that puts them on the same level as Flash: Zoom's faster, the Top has super-speed, Gorilla Grodd has telepathy that forces Flash to slow down and be more careful.

Others are kind of believable if you don't think about them too much, like Weather Wizard. Lightning is a damn good weapon against the Flash, since he can only travel a hair short of light speed if he doesn't want to merge with the Speed Force, but really, would Weather Wizard even be able to see Wally coming in order to fire off a bolt of lightning? Wally moves faster than the human eye can track.

Then there are guys like the Trickster, who just makes no sense to me whatsoever. He's a guy with some trick weapons, all of which are stored in his clothes or in bags or whatever. Wally'd be able to take all of his toys off of him before Trickster could blink.

[X]

Apart of Aza chorn, I don't know a teleporter better than my guy CHUNK

Yes! My boy Aza is getting some credit, finally. :D

Thanks. :) ;)

But, it's not like he doesn't deserve it. The entire universe is an open book to them and they used their powers faaar better than Pip ever did. He's got the potential to outclass the Warpsmiths, but he never tapped into it, at all.

[X]

Then there are guys like the Trickster, who just makes no sense to me whatsoever. He's a guy with some trick weapons, all of which are stored in his clothes or in bags or whatever. Wally'd be able to take all of his toys off of him before Trickster could blink.

Well, a lot of the Captain Boomerang/Trickster types are threats because The Flash allows them to be.

Remember what Walter did to Captain Boomerang?

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that's the main problem with Wally. He holds back too much out of fear. That's why Walter was so much more badass. :)

[X]

Who doesn't hold back?

Almost every human being on this planet holds back when he throws a punch. You need to actually learn to, in a combat situation, hit as hard as you can.

Imagine having that kind of power and responsibility? Holding back is incredibly responsible.

[Varient]

Whoa.
Forgot ALL ABOUT THIS THREAD.

[X]

Hasn't made much progrrss in two years, eh? :o

[Varient]

Hasn't made much progrrss in two years, eh? :o
Nah,... Kinda dead since I was right to begin with.

Fastest overall as far as physical motion over ground is the Flash

Fastest overall as far as Speed thru Space is the Silver Surfer

Fastest transporter w/o limit is Pip the Troll.
(My kinda Slob)

[X]

Nah,... Kinda dead since I was right to begin with.

Fastest overall as far as physical motion over ground is the Flash

Fastest overall as far as Speed thru Space is the Silver Surfer

Fastest transporter w/o limit is Pip the Troll.
(My kinda Slob)

See? You're still not right. :(

Some use this thread was. :(

[Varient]

See? You're still not right. :(

Some use this thread was. :(

Okay,... What's YOUR LIST?

[A_French_Gal]

Easily the fastest on the ground is Zoom. Beyond easily. He'd run circles around Flash until he cried.

[TheCorpulent1]

Except that the uber-fast Zoom got his ass handed to him by a blind Wonder Woman, so there goes that idea. If Wally could max himself out without having to worry about being absorbed into the Speed Force, I think he'd take the prize as fastest. Since he does have to worry about it, though, I imagine Marvel's Runner would be the fastest. He can run beyond light speed, if I recall correctly. If I'm wrong, X will correct me.

[X]

Except that the uber-fast Zoom got his ass handed to him by a blind Wonder Woman, so there goes that idea. If Wally could max himself out without having to worry about being absorbed into the Speed Force, I think he'd take the prize as fastest. Since he does have to worry about it, though, I imagine Marvel's Runner would be the fastest. He can run beyond light speed, if I recall correctly. If I'm wrong, X will correct me.

The Wonder Woman incident absolutely reeks of CIS. She heard a time displaced being. Ho-Kay. :rolleyes:

Regardless, she did almost the exact same thing to Wally while blind.

And you make me sound so harsh, Corp... :(

Come on, be honest... Haven't I mellowed out? :(

Runner basically is a cosmic Flash. He blitzed Thanos speed wise who's never had any problems with The Silver Surfer speed wise. Kicked the living crap out of The Titan as well, something only Odin and Tyrant level beings have been seen to do.

Outdid The Surfer in a fight as well... Speed wise, he was on Norrin before Norrin knew what was happening. Some people say The Runner was only visible to Norrin when he allowed it. Regardless, Norrin was almost dead in short order, after taking a beating just as bad as any Thanos had handed him.

And this is the same Surfer who can do this...

http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/8729/sspeed2za.png

[A_French_Gal]

Except that the uber-fast Zoom got his ass handed to him by a blind Wonder Woman, so there goes that idea. If Wally could max himself out without having to worry about being absorbed into the Speed Force, I think he'd take the prize as fastest. Since he does have to worry about it, though, I imagine Marvel's Runner would be the fastest. He can run beyond light speed, if I recall correctly. If I'm wrong, X will correct me.

That wasn't the issue, the issue was that Zoom moved faster than Flash.

[TheCorpulent1]

And Wonder Woman kicked the crap out of Zoom while blind, which could arguably imply that Wonder Woman's faster than Zoom.

You're fine, X. I didn't mean it pejoratively at all. Seriously, if I were wrong, you would have corrected me, wouldn't you? And for the record, when Diana "beat" Wally and the rest of the JLA as a test to determine whether she should still be a member, Wally was holding back. He even admits it in the issue. He doesn't feel right about going all-out against Diana in the first place, but he felt even worse knowing she was blind, so he held back.

As for the implausibility of her beating Zoom, the time displacement's not even the worst of it. Zoom is, for all intents and purposes, moving faster than light because of his time displacement. That means that even if Diana could hear his footfalls, their sound would reach her a hell of a lot later than Zoom's fist would. The whole fight was lame, in my opinion, but that seems to be the norm when speedsters are involved. Otherwise they're just too powerful.

[A_French_Gal]

And Wonder Woman kicked the crap out of Zoom while blind, which could arguably imply that Wonder Woman's faster than Zoom.

You're fine, X. I didn't mean it pejoratively at all. Seriously, if I were wrong, you would have corrected me, wouldn't you? And for the record, when Diana "beat" Wally and the rest of the JLA as a test to determine whether she should still be a member, Wally was holding back. He even admits it in the issue. He doesn't feel right about going all-out against Diana in the first place, but he felt even worse knowing she was blind, so he held back.

As for the implausibility of her beating Zoom, the time displacement's not even the worst of it. Zoom is, for all intents and purposes, moving faster than light because of his time displacement. That means that even if Diana could hear his footfalls, their sound would reach her a hell of a lot later than Zoom's fist would. The whole fight was lame, in my opinion, but that seems to be the norm when speedsters are involved. Otherwise they're just too powerful.

That in no way makes her faster than Zoom. At all. It just means she beat Zoom.

[TheCorpulent1]

How would she have beat someone who's supposed to be exponentially faster than she is if she's not faster, or at least very, very close in speed to him? If they were at the respective levels of speed implied by "Blitz," Wonder Woman would've been like a statue to Zoom, wholly incapable of reacting in time (providing, once again, that it were even possible for her to hear his footsteps, which it still isn't) to do anything to him. Either Zoom's lost speed or Wonder Woman's gained speed or the writers just didn't think things out well enough. My money's on the last, but canon is canon, unfortunately.

[A_French_Gal]

How would she have beat someone who's supposed to be exponentially faster than she is if she's not faster, or at least very, very close in speed to him? If they were at the respective levels of speed implied by "Blitz," Wonder Woman would've been like a statue to Zoom, wholly incapable of reacting in time (providing, once again, that it were even possible for her to hear his footsteps, which it still isn't) to do anything to him. Either Zoom's lost speed or Wonder Woman's gained speed or the writers just didn't think things out well enough. My money's on the last, but canon is canon, unfortunately.

I agree with those thoughts. If people wrote Zoom to his true potential, he'd be a god really. But yeah, probably poor writers, or Zoom just can't do it like he used to. And unfortunately, it is canon now.

[TheCorpulent1]

It happens to all the speedsters. The only difference is that for Wally, it's actually written into his character that he holds himself back pretty much all the time, for various reasons. Usually it's some combination of his wanting to retain his humanity because he feels his tie to the Speed Force threatens to wrench that away from him and his fear of accidentally killing one of his less-than-impressive Rogues by going too rough on him or her. Sad, but what are you gonna do?

[Lackey]

As for the implausibility of her beating Zoom, the time displacement's not even the worst of it. Zoom is, for all intents and purposes, moving faster than light because of his time displacement. That means that even if Diana could hear his footfalls, their sound would reach her a hell of a lot later than Zoom's fist would. The whole fight was lame, in my opinion, but that seems to be the norm when speedsters are involved. Otherwise they're just too powerful.


you can't really bring sound into the equation... or else how does Zoom even talk? How do Jay and Wally, running side by side at several times the speed of sound, carry on a conversation? How does Superman hear a bullet go off on the other side of the world and get there in time to catch Lois falling to the ground after being shot?
Sound is one part of physics that is almost completely thrown out the window in comic books.

As for Wonder Woman beating Zoom... I do wish that would have been written differently. But on the other hand, you are dealing with a person that the gods have gifted with practically perfect accuracy.

[TheCorpulent1]

I agree with the sound thing, actually. Sound is so totally botched in comics that there's basically no redeeming it at this point.

Regarding Wonder Woman, I don't know. Perfect accuracy is well and good, but I still think Rucka underestimated the full potential of a crazy, uninhibited villain with the ultimate source of super-speed.

[Varient]

Easily the fastest on the ground is Zoom. Beyond easily. He'd run circles around Flash until he cried.
Nope.
Zoom moves outside OF TIME.

He's not "fast" he can simply control the flow of time in ref to himself.

Otherwise,.. ANYONE who can time travel is "faster" than the Flash.

[A_French_Gal]

Nope.
Zoom moves outside OF TIME.

He's not "fast" he can simply control the flow of time in ref to himself.

Otherwise,.. ANYONE who can time travel is "faster" than the Flash.

Umm... Using a machine to travel time is different from just slowing down time till you're moving faster that someone else. And since he slows down time till he's faster than everybody else. Wouldn't that make him faster than everybody else?

[Varient]

Except that the uber-fast Zoom got his ass handed to him by a blind Wonder Woman, so there goes that idea. If Wally could max himself out without having to worry about being absorbed into the Speed Force, I think he'd take the prize as fastest. Since he does have to worry about it, though, I imagine Marvel's Runner would be the fastest. He can run beyond light speed, if I recall correctly. If I'm wrong, X will correct me.

Isn't the runners Speed Granted by a "soul Gem?"
if we're gonna start including tech,.. then Everyone with gear that isn't attached to them qualifies somewhere on the list.

[Varient]

The Wonder Woman incident absolutely reeks of CIS. She heard a time displaced being. Ho-Kay. :rolleyes:

Regardless, she did almost the exact same thing to Wally while blind.

And you make me sound so harsh, Corp... :(

Come on, be honest... Haven't I mellowed out? :(

Runner basically is a cosmic Flash. He blitzed Thanos speed wise who's never had any problems with The Silver Surfer speed wise. Kicked the living crap out of The Titan as well, something only Odin and Tyrant level beings have been seen to do.

Outdid The Surfer in a fight as well... Speed wise, he was on Norrin before Norrin knew what was happening. Some people say The Runner was only visible to Norrin when he allowed it. Regardless, Norrin was almost dead in short order, after taking a beating just as bad as any Thanos had handed him.

And this is the same Surfer who can do this...

http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/8729/sspeed2za.png

Any Pic's of the Runner?

[A_French_Gal]

Isn't the runners Speed Granted by a "soul Gem?"
if we're gonna start including tech,.. then Everyone with gear that isn't attached to them qualifies somewhere on the list.

I'm adding everybody who has superspeed, mechanical or not. And since Zoom can slow down time to where the Flash is just crawling by, Zoom is technically faster. Argue it all you want. If you move faster than the Flash, you're FASTER than the Flash. And if he uses a machine to make himself faster than the Flash, he's still FASTER than the Flash.

[White_Howling]

thanks X!!!!

love your surfer scans.. hes soo bad-ass.. well kind-ass

"please be patient" boy he sure cracks me up

[Lackey]

Zoom doesn't slow down time

...and I was going to bring up what Varient said earlier, if we're going to bring Time Travel into this, then any time traveler is faster than anyone else even teleporters

[TheCorpulent1]

Isn't the runners Speed Granted by a "soul Gem?"
if we're gonna start including tech,.. then Everyone with gear that isn't attached to them qualifies somewhere on the list.
Runner had the Space Gem for a while, but he was pretty much the fastest being alive even without it. He's an Elder of the Universe. The Elders gained immortality by devoting themselves completely to one thing; the Runner's thing was running.

[Guyverjay]

I'm adding everybody who has superspeed, mechanical or not. And since Zoom can slow down time to where the Flash is just crawling by, Zoom is technically faster. Argue it all you want. If you move faster than the Flash, you're FASTER than the Flash. And if he uses a machine to make himself faster than the Flash, he's still FASTER than the Flash.


That logic is flawed at best.

[Varient]

That logic is flawed at best.
Maybe you could explain it better,... I tried but something got lost in the translation.


Zoom is not faster than any speedster,.. he doesn't move at superspeed,.. thats why he couldn't work the cosmic treadmill,... and needed the other Zooms help.

He exists OUTSIDE OF TIME.

Such a person is like an observer more than a participant, he has the option to adjust his own position on the timeline

But it's not speed.

Peace.

[TheCorpulent1]

It has to do with kinetic energy. Zoom is not generating any significant amount of kinetic energy; he's running like you or I would. While he does that, however, he's adjusting his own timeline so that time passes much slower for him than it does for the rest of the world. That's why he can't do infinite mass punches or anything, because he's not actually moving fast enough to generate the necessary kinetic energy.

Unfortunately, it's also why Wally can't keep up with him. While Wally's actually moving faster and faster, Zoom's moving at the same speed but slowing his timeline so much that he can appear to move faster than light. If Wally, on the other hand, moves faster than light, he disappears into the Speed Force and is screwed.

[X]

:up:

I thought most people knew that, but hey.

[Odin's Lapdog]

In Marvel Quicksilver on the ground, Angel or Storm in the Air, and in DC Flash on the Ground, HawkMan or Superboy in the air.

i always felt that cannonball was faster than storm or angel in the air...

[Anubis]

Angel or Storm in the air? What about Northstar? It's because he's gay isn't it? Homophobe! :mad: :p

[TheCorpulent1]

Isn't Cannonball faster than Northstar, too? Northstar's fast, but Cannonball flies like he's got a jet strapped to his ass.

[Anubis]

Rocket Farts.

[Odin's Lapdog]

Isn't Cannonball faster than Northstar, too? Northstar's fast, but Cannonball flies like he's got a jet strapped to his ass.
i think that's the best similie in the english language

[TheCorpulent1]

i think that's the best similie in the english language
Why, thank you. I try. :)

[X]

Isn't Cannonball faster than Northstar, too? Northstar's fast, but Cannonball flies like he's got a jet strapped to his ass.

Northstar could move at the speed of light in some instances, coulden't he?

[TheCorpulent1]

I thought he was limited to just a few machs.

[Odin's Lapdog]

actually, gladiator has been shown to be quicker than cannonball in the air when they fought against one another...

so i change my choice of fastest flyer to gladiator...

but cannonball can certainly move though...

[X]

Gladiator once moved a hundred times the speed of light. :o

[TheCorpulent1]

Silver Age shenanigans. I think it's pretty commonly accepted that the speed of light is the maximum in modern comics, or if it's not, it should be.

[X]

When you can smash an Earth sized planet casually and just because it's in your way and compress stars into singularities with your bare hands, that isn't very far off. He's basically 70's Pre-Crisis Superman.

Superman's gone faster than light in space, Flash has blown past it, The Surfer, blah blah blah.

[King_Mungi]

Northstar could move at the speed of light in some instances, coulden't he?

Correct..

"It was once theoretically possible for her [Aurora] to reach 99% of the speed of light (286,272 miles per second in a vacuum), although she never traveled at anywhere near that speed since if she did, she would wreak great damage upon herself end her environment. Dr. Langkowski's actions in molecularly restructuring Aurora's body greatly reduced the potential limits of her speed. She now can move at speeds roughly up to the speed of sound (about 770 miles per hour at sea level). This reduction has made little difference in the use of her powers over short distances, since she can still move faster than the human eye can follow."

Aurora was hindered, not sure if she still is but Northstar theoretically can still do it. Unless the Hand took that away
---
Well in Qusar: Reborn to Run Barry Allen ["Buried Alien"] beat the Quicksilver, The Whizzer, Captain Marvel, Speed Demon, Black Racer, Super Sabre, and Quasar’s friend Makkari. I don't remember if The Runner was in it, but he did organize it.

[Varient]

Correct..

"It was once theoretically possible for her [Aurora] to reach 99% of the speed of light (286,272 miles per second in a vacuum), although she never traveled at anywhere near that speed since if she did, she would wreak great damage upon herself end her environment. Dr. Langkowski's actions in molecularly restructuring Aurora's body greatly reduced the potential limits of her speed. She now can move at speeds roughly up to the speed of sound (about 770 miles per hour at sea level). This reduction has made little difference in the use of her powers over short distances, since she can still move faster than the human eye can follow."

Aurora was hindered, not sure if she still is but Northstar theoretically can still do it. Unless the Hand took that away
---
Well in Qusar: Reborn to Run Barry Allen ["Buried Alien"] beat the Quicksilver, The Whizzer, Captain Marvel, Speed Demon, Black Racer, Super Sabre, and Quasar’s friend Makkari. I don't remember if The Runner was in it, but he did organize it.We kinda dropped this one didn't we?


W/O an answer I mean?

[Guyverjay]

The Runner wasn't in that race

[The Joker™]

Zoom is not faster than any speedster


Yeah he is.

In Flash #225 Wally even said he can't keep up with him.

In #223 Zoom says regardless of what people think I'm am the fastest man alive.

Super speed was the reason he could do the sonic boom with a snap of his fingers killing Linda's kids.

[TheCorpulent1]

Even though that doesn't make a lick of sense, since his power isn't actually super-speed, it's minor time manipulation. How you get a sonic boom from simply appearing to move fast to others who aren't on your timeline is beyond me.

Anyway, I agree with the other part. Given the nature of his powers and the speedsters' limitation that they'll merge with the Speed Force if they go too fast, Zoom should be able to safely move faster than any speedster.

[The Joker™]

If he can manipulate time then why does he need the treadmill?

[TheCorpulent1]

He can manipulate his own timeline, meaning he can make himself appear to be slower or faster than everyone else. Basically, the rate at which time passes is a variable to him, but only for himself.

[Silicon Surfer]

There are others capable of great speed. Nova can fly at least 3000 mph. Rogue can go supersonic as well. A sonic boom is generated when an object is traveling too fast for the air to easily get out of the way. If Zoom is traveling that fast with respect to the surrounding air he will get a sonic boom regardless of how he managed to do it. Oh, and some of the Eternals are also fast, Ikaris in particular (Makkari goes without saying).

[Eyeballing]

Well I pretty much agree with what Varient had to say in the begining. But he never brought up Makkari and he wasn't mentioned after I mentioned him two years ago until King Mungi brought him back up.

As far as running goes actually possessing the speed yourself : The Runner, Makkari, and Flash I would say are the top beings.

Flying: Well I am not sure who is faster than Chrome Dome, the guy does Multiple lights his speed has never really been measured or stated. Has it?

If we are talking machines or vehicles I am sure Galactus' is faster than SS, maybe even Thanos might have something among many other Cosmic related beings.

Teleportation: I have no arguments against anyone previously stated: Pip, Lila, Aza or the others. I would also think Death can teleport anywhere at any time she feels but I don't think people will count her since she is a cosmic. But hey peolple are also counting Eternals and Elders so why not?

Using devices I would think that Thanos has to have one of the best teleporation systems around. I mean he can not only teleport pretty much anywhere in the Universe but can also travel to other dimensions.


If we are taking into consideration Flash's 500,000 people bomb saving act, he is at least 90,000-180,000 times faster than the speed of light, even though he should have merged with the Speed Force. :D

[Eyeballing]

Isn't the runners Speed Granted by a "soul Gem?"
if we're gonna start including tech,.. then Everyone with gear that isn't attached to them qualifies somewhere on the list.


Yes but that was only for a little while, even without it he is extremley fast. But as Thanos stated he controled space, so he wasn't always "running" eveywhere, he would teleport a lot. Which is why Thanos explains he would often wind up somewhere before he started to run, because he would think of a place then teleport there.

So at those speeds he really didn't run.

[Eyeballing]

Silver Age shenanigans. I think it's pretty commonly accepted that the speed of light is the maximum in modern comics, or if it's not, it should be.

I would hate to disagree with you here Corp, but I just think that only applies to our own real world reality. It may also hold true for DC where for some reason the speed of light is the commonly accepted limit, but in Marvel you have beings like SS, Gladiator, Thor, and The Runner who on ocassion or often surpass light speed by a little or by hundreds or even thousands of times.

Hell even Flash has done it once or twice. :D

[X]

Yes but that was only for a little while, even without it he is extremley fast. But as Thanos stated he controled space, so he wasn't always "running" eveywhere, he would teleport a lot. Which is why Thanos explains he would often wind up somewhere before he started to run, because he would think of a place then teleport there.

So at those speeds he really didn't run.

He was just as fast under Engleheart and in his original New Defenders appearance. He was blitzing ****ing Norrin who has a speed feat (The Infinity Gauntlet grab) that was calculated to be even faster than Wally's city evacuation. Some people argue that Wally coulden't even see The Runner until The Runner allowed it, and it kind of looked that way.

I mean, Norrin's fought Deathurge at FTL speeds and he could barely even keep his eyes on The Runner. It's just my opinion that The Runner's the premiere speedster in comics, peroid. Like all the Elders, he should get respect. And considering he's thrashed The Collector, Thanos, The Surfer, and threatened merrily to beat the **** out of The Champion, he deserves that respect that much more.

[Eyeballing]

He was just as fast under Engleheart and in his original New Defenders appearance. He was blitzing ****ing Norrin who has a speed feat (The Infinity Gauntlet grab) that was calculated to be even faster than Wally's city evacuation. Some people argue that Wally coulden't even see The Runner until The Runner allowed it, and it kind of looked that way.

I mean, Norrin's fought Deathurge at FTL speeds and he could barely even keep his eyes on The Runner. It's just my opinion that The Runner's the premiere speedster in comics, peroid. Like all the Elders, he should get respect. And considering he's thrashed The Collector, Thanos, The Surfer, and threatened merrily to beat the **** out of The Champion, he deserves that respect that much more.

I agree X, but I was simply stating that when he tore apart Thanos he was in the posession of the Space Gem, so not that he wasn't immensely fast but he was just controlling the reality of space itself. That being said, yes he is still pretty much tops. :up:

BTW in which ish, did he take on norrin?

[X]

Oh, I understand... I was just elaborating.

And he took on Norrin in this issues...

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/74638335496.3.GIF

I can send it to you. I can send you all of vol. 1, 2, and 3 if you want. SS Graphic Novels too. Free free free! :D

[Eyeballing]

Oh, I understand... I was just elaborating.

And he took on Norrin in this issues...

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/74638335496.3.GIF

I can send it to you. I can send you all of vol. 1, 2, and 3 if you want. SS Graphic Novels too. Free free free! :D

Heh, I forgot all about that one :D

[X]

I find it awesome how The Runner proclaimed how much fun it was almost killing The Silver Surfer. :D

[Varient]

...........................

[Silicon Surfer]

He was just as fast under Engleheart and in his original New Defenders appearance. He was blitzing ****ing Norrin who has a speed feat (The Infinity Gauntlet grab) that was calculated to be even faster than Wally's city evacuation. Some people argue that Wally coulden't even see The Runner until The Runner allowed it, and it kind of looked that way.

I mean, Norrin's fought Deathurge at FTL speeds and he could barely even keep his eyes on The Runner. It's just my opinion that The Runner's the premiere speedster in comics, peroid. Like all the Elders, he should get respect. And considering he's thrashed The Collector, Thanos, The Surfer, and threatened merrily to beat the **** out of The Champion, he deserves that respect that much more. Pre-crisis Barry Allen and the Runner are probably the two fastest although The Stranger once left the Surfer behind like he was standing still making hima candidate as well.

[X]

Eh, Norrin was chasing him, and I think The Stranger slipped into hyperspace.

[Eyeballing]

Pre-crisis Barry Allen and the Runner are probably the two fastest although The Stranger once left the Surfer behind like he was standing still making hima candidate as well.

I don't think Pre-Crisis Barry is faster than Wally is now, especially if you count the evacuation feat. Wally has an easier time then Barry entering the speed force, at least that is what I have gathered.

[Silicon Surfer]

I don't think Pre-Crisis Barry is faster than Wally is now, especially if you count the evacuation feat. Wally has an easier time then Barry entering the speed force, at least that is what I have gathered. Pre-crisis there was no speedforce. All the Flashes were able to go far faster than light. Barry once did laps around the galaxy(or the universe. I don't recall).They were capable of travelling millions of times faster than they can now.Even Wally was faster than Wally.

[Eyeballing]

Pre-crisis there was no speedforce. All the Flashes were able to go far faster than light. Barry once did laps around the galaxy(or the universe. I don't recall).They were capable of travelling millions of times faster than they can now.Even Wally was faster than Wally.


Well, as I said, if you consider the evacuation event then Wally is capable of traveling 9 million-18 million times the speed of light, but if you take into account that everything slows down 100 times at light speed then you could say he was only traveling 90,000-180,000 times the speed of light. But I don't think that realy world physics apply to comic land :D

[Silicon Surfer]

Well, as I said, if you consider the evacuation event then Wally is capable of traveling 9 million-18 million times the speed of light, but if you take into account that everything slows down 100 times at light speed then you could say he was only traveling 90,000-180,000 times the speed of light. But I don't think that realy world physics apply to comic land :D I always hated physics.Couldn't get my questions answered by the professors.When I came up with a question that seemed to refute Einstein they wimped out and wouldn't try to answer it. Maybe thats why I like comic books still. No physics.

[Eyeballing]

I always hated physics.Couldn't get my questions answered by the professors.When I came up with a question that seemed to refute Einstein they wimped out and wouldn't try to answer it. Maybe thats why I like comic books still. No physics.

:up:

Well I have read a couple things as of late, one posted by someone here on the boards about a certain particle or sub atomic particle that travels faster than the speed of light and on tv a show on the Discovery channel. They were are some high tech experimental facility and researchers were launching atoms or particles of something of the sort down tubes, I can't quite remember exactly how fast, but I want to say the speed was something like 15 million times the speed of light.

[TheCorpulent1]

They're tachyons. Comic books have incorporated them, too, most notably DC in the science fiction behind their time-traveling characters. I'm pretty sure they're still theoretical, though.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Subscribe

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

And yes I've heard of those, but there is something else as well. I can't remember what they were using or what molecules but I'll get back to you on it.

[The Joker™]

I still say Zoom is the fastest of any speedster.

Wally was barley keeping up with him after Jesse gave him her speed formula to keep up, plus he was charged up with Bart and Jays speed still.

They were doing laps around the world and only a few seconds had passed, Superman looked like a statue to them and that was well he was try to help someone.

Wally was moving faster then light to during all this because he was being called by speedforce.

Thats just Zoom going at normal speed to maybe a little less the normal becasue he was still trying to get adjusted to the rate he was moving at.

So who knows what he could max at.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

I still say Zoom is the fastest of any speedster.

Wally was barley keeping up with him after Jesse gave him her speed formula to keep up, plus he was charged up with Bart and Jays speed still.

They were doing laps around the world and only a few seconds had passed, Superman looked like a statue to them and that was well he was try to help someone.

Wally was moving faster then light to during all this because he was being called by speedforce.

Thats just Zoom going at normal speed to maybe a little less the normal becasue he was still trying to get adjusted to the rate he was moving at.

So who knows what he could max at.

Again he controls his time flow, he doesn't actually move at super speeds like wally or the runner does.

[The Joker™]

Again he controls his time flow, he doesn't actually move at super speeds like wally or the runner does.


Yeah he does move at superspeeds.

He controls his time flow so that it speeds up.

The fact that he can make sonicbooms, mass punches and his perceptions at first is proof of that.

He punched wally from Keystone to what looked to be Alaska or something like that.

He couldn'tdo that if he wasn't moving fast.

His ounches would be like a normal humans.

Plus his speach patern is close together indicating he moves fast.

Otherwise there would be no need to make it look like hes running in the comics or his speech being affected by it.

I think of Zoom's powers being like a VCR.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Yeah he does move at superspeeds.

He controls his time flow so that it speeds up.

The fact that he can make sonicbooms, mass punches and his perceptions at first is proof of that.

He punched wally from Keystone to what looked to be Alaska or something like that.

He couldn'tdo that if he wasn't moving fast.

His ounches would be like a normal humans.

Plus his speach patern is close together indicating he moves fast.

Otherwise there would be no need to make it look like hes running in the comics or his speech being affected by it.

I think of Zoom's powers being like a VCR.

If he physically moves fast, then why can't he travel through time or use the cosmic treadmill?

[The Joker™]

If he physically moves fast, then why can't he travel through time or use the cosmic treadmill?


In all his Appearences they always talk about how fast hes moving.

In Flash #200 after Jesse gives him her mantra, Flash is able to see Zoom because now hes moving at the rate Zooms body is moving.

In that same issue Jay comes up with a theroy that he is not on the timeline.
He can not go backwards, but as he moves forward hes not locked to one speed.

He can control how fast or how slow he moves ahead in time.

He can even stop himself.

In Flash #219 Zoom tells Cheetah the same thing that he controls how fast or how slow he moves.

If he wasn't physically then he wouldn't be able to do anything like I said.

In #224 Wally even says Zoom is incredibly fast.

The first time he tried to use the cosmic treadmill he didn't have his powers so he attempted to hot-wire it, but that didn't work.

The second time he got it going, but Wally luckly had just enough speed to push him down and mess it up.


Zolomon then broke into the museum and attempted to use the treadmill himself. The resulting explosion destroyed the museum and shifted Hunter's connection to time. He could now alter his personal timeframe, giving the effect of super-speed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_(comics)

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

In all his Appearences they always talk about how fast hes moving.

In Flash #200 after Jesse gives him her mantra, Flash is able to see Zoom because now hes moving at the rate Zooms body is moving.

In that same issue Jay comes up with a theroy that he is not on the timeline.
He can not go backwards, but as he moves forward hes not locked to one speed.

He can control how fast or how slow he moves ahead in time.

He can even stop himself.

In Flash #219 Zoom tells Cheetah the same thing that he controls how fast or how slow he moves.

If he wasn't physically then he wouldn't be able to do anything like I said.

In #224 Wally even says Zoom is incredibly fast.

The first time he tried to use the cosmic treadmill he didn't have his powers so he attempted to hot-wire it, but that didn't work.

The second time he got it going, but Wally luckly had just enough speed to push him down and mess it up.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_(comics)

Ah but as you quoted from wikipedia it says, the effect of super-speed, not super speed itself. And that occured before he was granted his powers, he hot wired the cosmic treadmill. He still can't use it to time travel.

[The Joker™]

Okay I just read Wonder Women 214 and now I know where people are getting the miscoception that Zoom isn't a speedster.

Wonder Women says that Zoom is popping in and out of time which isn't true because hes on the time line but he just controls how fast he moves on the time line.

Then another part was when Wonder Women said hes not "truly" faster then her, but then why does Wally always talk about how much Zoom is faster then him and everyone.

Although Wonder Women even said he punched her harder then Superman because the punch was faster then light.

Theres noway Wonder Women would have been able to punch or get the lasso around him.

I don't know I guess they had to come up with some way for them to stop Zoom otherwise he would have just ran **** on Wonder Women and Flash.

That issue was a mess of mischaracterization for Zoom.

The Editor and Rucka messed up.

The artist didn't even draw him running fast in it like how he is in every Flash book.

He had him look as though he telports or something.

[The Joker™]

Ah but as you quoted from wikipedia it says, the effect of super-speed, not super speed itself. And that occured before he was granted his powers, he hot wired the cosmic treadmill. He still can't use it to time travel.


Yeah the time energy effects him giving him super speed.

Where Kinetic energy fules the Flashes.

The treadmill works off kinetic energy and Zoom is fuled by time.

Him not being able to use the treadmill doesn't dissprove him of not being able to move at Super speeds all that proves is that he doesn't give off kinetic energy to power it.


In Flash #198 Bart says sonic booms happen when somethings moving faster then the speed of sound and Zoom was making them with a snap of his fingures.

[Silicon Surfer]

They're tachyons. Comic books have incorporated them, too, most notably DC in the science fiction behind their time-traveling characters. I'm pretty sure they're still theoretical, though. They have been talkin about tachyons since the early 70's at least. I remember seeing a newspaper article about detecting them in '73. Physicists have been doing experiments recently where they have recorded speeds that appear to be faster than the recognized speed of light but I do not recall the details.

[Varient]

They have been talkin about tachyons since the early 70's at least. I remember seeing a newspaper article about detecting them in '73. Physicists have been doing experiments recently where they have recorded speeds that appear to be faster than the recognized speed of light but I do not recall the details.
yup particles who's minimum speed is light,...
Power levels I fear we'll never see in this century.

[Whirlysplat]

You guys talk like light only travels at one speed itself the speed C (299792458 m/s) is a constant in a vacuum but becomes Cn in a medium, and changes in relation to said mediums density.

Some argue Gravity travels faster an old paper but relevant:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/grav_speed.html

[Zaptoitnow]

Actually, the density has nothing to do with it, its the index of refraction that determines light's speed through a medium.

[Whirlysplat]

Actually, the density has nothing to do with it, its the index of refraction that determines light's speed through a medium.

Actually optical density does effect it, you took density to mean physical density that wasn't my meaning at all. You have heard of opyical density right? :) You're on the right lines youngster and you're following me around. :cool:

Like any wave, the speed of a light wave is dependent upon the properties of the medium. In the case of an electromagnetic wave, the speed of the wave depends upon the optical density of that material. The optical density of a medium is not the same as its physical density. The physical density of a material refers to the mass/volume ratio. The optical density of a material relates to the sluggish tendency of the atoms of a material to maintain the absorbed energy of an electromagnetic wave in the form of vibrating electrons before reemitting it as a new electromagnetic disturbance. The more optically dense which a material is, the slower that a wave will move through the material.

One indicator of the optical density of a material is the index of refraction value of the material. Index of refraction values (represented by the symbol n) are numerical index values which are expressed relative to the speed of light in a vacuum. The index of refraction value of a material is a number which indicates the number of times slower that a light wave would be in that material than it is in a vacuum. A vacuum is given an n value of 1.0000. The n values of other materials are found from the following equation:

n material = 3 x 10 to the 8 metres per second / v material

You see the link between the index and density?

glad I could sort that out for you:)

:supes: - Whirly

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

yup particles who's minimum speed is light,...
Power levels I fear we'll never see in this century.

I wouldn't put my money on it. Who knows what will occur in the next 93 years. A lot could happen. There has been more advancement in the last 100 years of human exsistence then there has been throughout the entire history of human kind put together.

And with how fast computer technology is progressing who knows? Once we create fully self sustaining AI that is capable of learning, comprehending and creative thought process watchout.

[Zaptoitnow]

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/Phys/Class/refrn/u14l1d.html
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/refrn/u14l1d.html

Cite your sources the next time you blatantly copy and paste your material. I swear you’re even more obvious than the tenth graders I teach this stuff to.

That’s right youngster, you’re trying to tell a person that holds bachelor degrees in both Physics and Education how it is this simple mechanism works. Now let me try and make you actually understand (in my own words none the less), since you obviously have to copy and paste you information.

When a photon (the electromagnetic charge carrying particle) interacts with matter, the photon is absorbed by electrons orbiting the atom. When this happens, the electron is excited, bumping it up to another orbital. Once this happens, the electron emits a photon that is identical to the one absorbed in the first place. This entire process happens not instantaneously, but rather with some delay, causing the light be forced to stop and then go again. While in empty space between atoms, the photons, and make no mistake about this, are certainly traveling at the constant speed of light c. The deviation from the constant c, or so called speed of light through a medium is rather the average delay a group of photons will experience. And you are right, it is at times called “Optical Density” rather than a more accurate name, but if that had been what you meant, you should have referred to is as such, as opposed to simply density, which is just plain inaccurate.

You are also right that I followed you into the thread. I came in here to see if our other confrontation was simply a misunderstanding as you called it, or rather if you were just a new poster that went around calling other snotty and other such names. I arrived at the conclusion that it was simply a misunderstanding and there was no issue. Eventually, I became interested in the debate, and when I read that last post, felt the need to correct it.

[Anubis]

I wouldn't put my money on it. Who knows what will occur in the next 93 years. A lot could happen. There has been more advancement in the last 100 years of human exsistence then there has been throughout the entire history of human kind put together.

And with how fast computer technology is progressing who knows? Once we create fully self sustaining AI that is capable of learning, comprehending and creative thought process watchout.


And then we'll all be wiped out and grown in fields and used as batteries for the machines.

[Varient]

LOL

Geeks!!!!

I LOVE MY KIND!!!!!

[Whirlysplat]

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/Phys/Class/refrn/u14l1d.html
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/refrn/u14l1d.html

Cite your sources the next time you blatantly copy and paste your material. I swear you’re even more obvious than the tenth graders I teach this stuff to.

That’s right youngster, you’re trying to tell a person that holds bachelor degrees in both Physics and Education how it is this simple mechanism works. Now let me try and make you actually understand (in my own words none the less), since you obviously have to copy and paste you information.

When a photon (the electromagnetic charge carrying particle) interacts with matter, the photon is absorbed by electrons orbiting the atom. When this happens, the electron is excited, bumping it up to another orbital. Once this happens, the electron emits a photon that is identical to the one absorbed in the first place. This entire process happens not instantaneously, but rather with some delay, causing the light be forced to stop and then go again. While in empty space between atoms, the photons, and make no mistake about this, are certainly traveling at the constant speed of light c. The deviation from the constant c, or so called speed of light through a medium is rather the average delay a group of photons will experience. And you are right, it is at times called “Optical Density” rather than a more accurate name, but if that had been what you meant, you should have referred to is as such, as opposed to simply density, which is just plain inaccurate.

You are also right that I followed you into the thread. I came in here to see if our other confrontation was simply a misunderstanding as you called it, or rather if you were just a new poster that went around calling other snotty and other such names. I arrived at the conclusion that it was simply a misunderstanding and there was no issue. Eventually, I became interested in the debate, and when I read that last post, felt the need to correct it.

Hey - not citing a source doesn't make the source wrong, it just makes the poster lazy and on that note "optical density" is the kind of density one would expect to be discussing when talking about luminal velocities, it's not a sloppy term at all, it's fine, you'll find it in many text books. As for teaching - I lecture. In the Degree department I have a Honours degree in Molecular Biology and I have a couple beyond graduate level, in my opinon they do not mean I am more intelligent than someone else, it just means I was adequate enough to stay in Education longer and chose to. I don't see why I justified that though :confused: same reason you brought Education up your eduction I suppose - ego?
I don't lecture Physics - I lecture Biology, a few levels above grade school but I respect High School teachers, so no problems there, you have a tough job. I agree it was a misunderstanding so don't get "snotty" again j/k I hope we're cool now! Two teachers arguing is not a good example for anyone my friend. :)
My physics is pretty good though unlike how my English is at times. Like a certain lauded Physicist I am mildly Dyslexic (All similarities end there! My ego is not that big ;)).
Fortunately I can use a spell check and I prepare my notes carefully, the electronic Whiteboard has also been a god send. Back to Physics I got a bit lost with excitation levels in effernescent (was that how it was spelt) waves for enzyme linked identification with an optical component. However normal light physics is no problem.
Interesting you bothered to google my phrases though, I wondered if you would and hoped you might :), this is a mild inference and meant in jest ;). Should you feel you still have a problem with me or anything I have said let's take it to PM as I am sure nobody else wants to read it, that's not me being snotty, I just think open arguments on forums are crass.

:supes: - Whirly

[Varient]

As long as you keep it light and use words that geeks by their nature have seen and understand without hitting us with the textbooks,...

I'd rather you kept the convo here.

I miss those late nite science talks.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

And then we'll all be wiped out and grown in fields and used as batteries for the machines.

Come on Anubis I was expecting something a little more original. :D

[Whirlysplat]

Come on Anubis I was expecting something a little more original. :D

Well Vernor Vinges ideas are interesting so I'm not suprised he took that line really.

[Anubis]

Come on Anubis I was expecting something a little more original. :D

Okay, how about this:



I wouldn't put my money on it. Who knows what will occur in the next 93 years. A lot could happen. There has been more advancement in the last 100 years of human exsistence then there has been throughout the entire history of human kind put together.

And with how fast computer technology is progressing who knows? Once we create fully self sustaining AI that is capable of learning, comprehending and creative thought process watchout.

After which they will demand the same God given rights that other sentient beings posses. Tired of being built for manual labor and Grey Slavery (That's Robots built for prostitution). They take it to the streets in protest. Lead by they're fiery political leader the great Bender Bending Rodriguez. It will later be kidnapped and stripped for parts. No one knows what happened to him, but it's rumored that he was later turned into a cappuccino machine that resided in the CIA's break room. The movement stalled however when the robots were suckered out of they're personal freedoms in exchange for brightly colored Lug Nuts and WD40.

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Okay, how about this:




After which they will demand the same God given rights that other sentient beings posses. Tired of being built for manual labor and Grey Slavery (That's Robots built for prostitution). They take it to the streets in protest. Lead by they're fiery political leader the great Bender Bending Rodriguez. It will later be kidnapped and stripped for parts. No one knows what happened to him, but it's rumored that he was later turned into a cappuccino machine that resided in the CIA's break room. The movement stalled however when the robots were suckered out of they're personal freedoms in exchange for brightly colored Lug Nuts and WD40.

:D Now that's original :up:

[Varient]

(smirk,...)
I'm glad I qwent looking for this thread,...

[Silicon Surfer]

This thread has been dormant for months and when it's brought back the post is still doesn't address the topic of the thread. :)