Welcome Class, to Room 666...Again

[The Spawn]

When I feel like toying with a Hypester.

[X-Chick]

And when will that be?

[The Spawn]

I don't like MacDonalds.

[The Spawn]

6/6/06

[Al Frocks]

Originally posted by The Spawn
Alf...I already told you who won. If you aren't listening now, what makes you think you can listen in a debate? Jesus christ...I need an EML or something. I am seriously getting bored. l won...l'm "listening" but all l'm "hearing" are you claiming you won...when you lost...

and l'm not sure what you mean by debate...but l know l'd win there too:)

[The Spawn]

Who has been ranting over and over again about them winning?

[X-Chick]

I thought you always felt like toying with people....especially Hypesters.

[Assassin32]

You're so funny.....

[Assassin32]

Originally posted by The Spawn
6/6/06

Is that when X3 comes out?:wolverine :cyclops:

[Al Frocks]

Originally posted by The Spawn
Who has been ranting over and over again about them winning? you just as much as me...except you're calling it being "right"...l call it winning...

l'm right, l win, whatever you wanna say...:):o

[The Spawn]

You so wanna be like me...I understand Al...I*ll let this one go...you won.

[X-Chick]

LOL. Nice sig, Spawn.

[The Spawn]

It speaks the truth.

[Assassin32]

Do capes do anything besides making the hero look cool?

[Al Frocks]

Originally posted by The Spawn
You so wanna be like me...I understand Al...I*ll let this one go...you won. you're sig doesnt make sense...

and l know l win...you can say what you want, but l still won...:)

[The Spawn]

Capes slow down descent during a freefall.

[X-Chick]

LOL. Nice sig, Alf. :up:

[The Spawn]

We can both say what we want. I'm glad I got you to realize that. Took my sig to do it, but at least I taught you something.

[The Spawn]

I told you, people want to be like me.

[X-Chick]

Damn you for ignoring me again. I'm bored. :(

[Al Frocks]

Originally posted by The Spawn
We can both say what we want. I'm glad I got you to realize that. Took my sig to do it, but at least I taught you something. l;ve always known that...but (like then) l still know l'm right...soooo...:)

[The Spawn]

And I'm sick and tired of people thinking they can IM me after wasting so much of my time. The two of you are better off taking my off your lists before I do it myself. Blasted children.

[X-Chick]

So, you didn't like talking to me at all? :(

[Al Frocks]

Originally posted by The Spawn
And I'm sick and tired of people thinking they can IM me after wasting so much of my time. The two of you are better off taking my off your lists before I do it myself. Blasted children. l've never wasted your time on aim...

[The Spawn]

Al, your insecurity has no bounds, does it? You had to edit the sig...since you know I'd never call you a winner...at least, not with the end result of me being the loser. I can prove I won in more than 1 line.

[Al Frocks]

Originally posted by The Spawn
Al, your insecurity has no bounds, does it? You had to edit the sig...since you know I'd never call you a winner...at least, not with the end result of me being the loser. I can prove I won in more than 1 line. l edited it cuz l forgot to put who said it:confused: so l fixed it...

[The Spawn]

I dislike the both of you greatly at this point. I've got one boy here who think she can outwit and adult, trick a trickster, and a girl who thinks she can get me to say what she likes. hansel and Grettel will be your names from this point on until you can show me what you can bring to the table. Full circle. i told you once, I'll tell you again.


I control it all. We will always repeat. you waste my time. I waste yours.

[The Spawn]

You made a mistake in quoting someone, and you think you an win an 'argument'. Ha....also, there was more to my post.

[Al Frocks]

and again

[Al Frocks]

whatever spawn...l win...:cool:

[Al Frocks]

stupid hype...

[X-Chick]

Spawn, I like talking to you and everything, but I do not want you to say whatever I want. I only want the truth and so far, you give me different answers all the time. And I am not out to impress anyone, so as far as that "bringing something to table" I don't know what you want, but I am not going to try and figure it out either.

[Danalys]

how ironic that this thread has gone to hell.

Al frocks if you actually did win learn to be a good winner. If you didn't then learn not to be a idiot.

[Assassin32]

Spawn, look how awesome:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/mag/060621_Issue/040612_batman_wide.hmedium.jpg

:batman:

[The Kingpin]

Alf and X-Chick turned this great thread, into a chat room. :mad:

[Dr. Killjoy]

Ban them.

[The Kingpin]

Originally posted by The Spawn
I dislike the both of you greatly at this point. I've got one boy here who think she can outwit and adult, trick a trickster, and a girl who thinks she can get me to say what she likes. hansel and Grettel will be your names from this point on until you can show me what you can bring to the table. Full circle. i told you once, I'll tell you again.


I control it all. We will always repeat. you waste my time. I waste yours. :D

[Al Frocks]

Originally posted by ph27home
how ironic that this thread has gone to hell.

Al frocks if you actually did win learn to be a good winner. If you didn't then learn not to be a idiot. lt didnt go to hell...no one was asking any questions...so skip the two pages of off topic stuff and ask a question...

l'm a fine winner...and about as far from an idiot as anyone here...Originally posted by The Kingpin
Alf and X-Chick turned this great thread, into a chat room. :mad: l can assure you that had spawn not chatted back, it would not have turned into a chat thread...

[The Kingpin]

Shutup Hansel.

[The Spawn]

No, that ones Grettel.

[The Kingpin]

Ah, giving them opposite sexes to insult them further. I see.

[The Spawn]

I allow people to insult themselves for me.

[Assassin32]

Did you see how awesome?

[The Spawn]

No?

[The Spawn]

Oh...yeah...The Batman and I are debating.

[Assassin32]

Over?

[The Spawn]

How he looks cool in that pic, but none of the others.

[X-Chick]

Originally posted by Al Frocks
lt didnt go to hell...no one was asking any questions...so skip the two pages of off topic stuff and ask a question...

l'm a fine winner...and about as far from an idiot as anyone here... l can assure you that had spawn not chatted back, it would not have turned into a chat thread...

I agree. Alf is nowhere near being an idiot. And yeah, we weren't talking to ourselves.

[Captain Cat]

Originally posted by Assassin32
Spawn, look how awesome:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/mag/060621_Issue/040612_batman_wide.hmedium.jpg

:batman:

And it's about time too......finally, we have an acceptable movie coming our way. I bet the fanboy's on the batman boards are pissing themselves. Ha! :mad:

But then again, he does look stupid relativley stupid in the picture of him and Crane. Bleh....

[The Spawn]

Yes, yes he does. It took that pic to tell everyone that...I noticed it in the first pic they put out.

[Assassin32]

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/mag/060621_Issue/040612_BatmanSUB_horiz.jpg

He doesn't look stupid, just.....different. I think it's because Christian Bale is super-duper buff.

[C. Lee]

He looks fine to me.

[Assassin32]

I'm disappointed by the rubber suit, though.:(

[C. Lee]

Have to see what it looks like in movement before I get dissappointed.

[Captain Cat]

Originally posted by Assassin32
I'm disappointed by the rubber suit, though.:(

I don't think it's the same bondage rubber Michael Shoefu*ker or Tim Burton used :confused: But yes, it still looks like it will be hard to move in....but i can't really tell yet.

And if you look at the 'Ladies observe...' thread someone posted a picture of Bale as Bruce on the second last page, if you wanna check it out.

[The Spawn]

He looks like he has loose fat under his neck like fat bastard.

[The Spawn]

SPRINGHEEL JACK

Jumping Jack's Background

Victorian England houses many different strange events, but perhaps the most puzzling are those involving Springheel Jack. Jack's strange appearance and superhuman abilities lead investigator's to believe he is more then a mere man. Jack first appeared in September 1837 in London, England when he attacked three women in the dark of the night. One of the victims, Polly Adams, reportably had her clothes torn off which allowed Jack to scratch at her stomach with his iron clad fingers. The victims later described Jack as a tall, thin and powerful man who wore a dark cloak, glowing eyes and the ability to spit blue flames.

Attacks continued and London's Lord Mayor, Sir John Cowan, declared Springheel Jack a menace in January 1838. A vigilante group soon formed to capture Jack, but he was able to escape all attempts.

Perhaps the most infamous attack occurred on February 20, 1838 in London. Late that night, a strange figure stood at the gate of a home and yelled out, "For God's sake, bring me a light, for we have caught Springheel Jack in the lane!" Within moments, eighteen year old Jane Alsop ran outside with a candle and confronted the figure. Alsop claimed the figure was enveloped in a large cloak and spit blue and white flames. The figure grabbed the young girl and clawed at her dress with his sharp fingers. Aslop's sister ran to her aid and dragged her inside the house. Strangely, the attacker knocked on the door several times and waited for a response before he finally left after the sisters called for help. During his escape, Jack dropped his cloak which was quickly picked up by an apparent accomplice of his.

Yet another attack took place on February 28 when Miss Lucy Scales was attacked at about 8:30 PM while traveling through an alley. She was attacked in much the same way as the previous victims, but her attack left her with seizure-like fits. Surgeon Charles Pritchel later told authorities that she "was suffering from hysterics and great agitation, in all probability the result of fright."

Other Jack Sightings

In most respects, the attacks ended with these reports. Various theories have been concocted about the origins of Jack; from an alien stranded on Earth who gained powers due to the difference in gravity and climate; much like Superman to a ghost.

Jack Sightings in Chile??


Although not exactly the same as "Spring Heel Jack", strange unexplained sightings have been occurring in and around Calama, Chile.

On April 5th, 2001, at approximately 12:20AM, Mr. A.J.A. stepped out of his home to smoke a cigarette in his front yard when he suddenly noticed a figure approaching from his right. At first he thought it was a large owl but as it flew directly in front of him he saw that it was a bizarre creature. As the creature flew close to a nearby light pole the witness noticed that it was a humanoid figure with a very large head, which was wingless and flew at in an even level flight, totally noiselessly. The body was about 1 meter 4cm in length. It appeared to be covered in dark green "matted down" hair. It had a pear shaped head but the witness could not see any eyes. It had long thin arms. As the creature flew in front of the witness about 10 meters away, he felt a cold chill and illogic panic. The creature flew by the light pole and executed a 90-degree turn quickly disappearing from sight. The lights streetlights went out as the creature flew by, they came back on later (Source: Calama UFO Center).

On April 8th, 2001, two boys, 13 and 14 years old were walking back to the village of San Rafael reported seeing in a wooded area two large bright green slanted staring eyes. Suddenly a large dark form jumped up, about 6 meters, and flew over their heads pushing them back with a powerful cold wind. One of the boys was carrying a cellular phone and noticed how it appeared to turn itself on and dial the number 1 several times, they also noticed that the nearby street lamp seem to dim. Minutes later a larger dark form, about 15 meters from them also flew up, landing on top of a nearby truck, while the other dark form landed on the roof of a nearby house then both quickly disappeared from sight (Source: Calama UFO Center).

[Assassin32]

It's because he's leaning his head foward, Spawn.

Talk about nanotechnology.

[The Spawn]

They need that in batman Begins.

[X-Chick]

Teach me something.

[Abaddon]

This class is boring.


*shoots spitballs at Spawn*


:p

[X-Chick]

It's only boring if you don't learn from it.

[Assassin32]

Tell me about angels.

[Abaddon]

Originally posted by X-Chick03
It's only boring if you don't learn from it.
:rolleyes:

teachers pet.:p :o

[The Kingpin]

How could the technological advances of the Wild West be compared to us today?

[Mr. Edward Hyde]

Originally posted by C. Lee
Have to see what it looks like in movement before I get dissappointed.

Yeah me too, I always hated how the actor would have to turn his own torso, becausehe couldnt turn his head because the neck was stiff.:batman:

[The Spawn]

In the west, technology was basically based on faster travel, and weapons. Today, we wish to travel faster, in the sky, with weapons.

[X-Chick]

Originally posted by Abaddon
:rolleyes:

teachers pet.:p :o

Please. That would imply that the teacher likes me and that I like him. :rolleyes:

[The Spawn]

Definitions of Angels on the Web:

Individual investors who provide capital at the seed stage of your company's venture capital cycle. Angels can include friends, family and acquaintances but are typically individuals with large net worth and committed interests in investing seed money in start-up companies and such investments are usually under $1 million dollars.
hightechbiz.com/dictionary.htm


Also known as Watchers or bene elim are large winged creatures, human-like in form but whose bodies are made of light not flesh. Angels are ancient beings whose true form is composed of intelligence and feeling. They are able to see and pass through the invisible windows between the worlds.
www.randomhouse.com/features/pullman/subtleknife/glossary.html


Private individuals with capital to invest in business enterprises.
www.yourmoney.cba.ca/eng/glossary.cfm


(Gr. Angelos, "messenger"). Bodiless beings, purely spirits, created by God before man. They are superior in nature and intelligence to man; and, like man, they have understanding and free will. Some of them are appointed to guard the faithful (guardian angels). Angels are grouped in nine orders (tagmata) as follows: Angels; Archangels; Principalities; Powers; Virtues; Dominations; Thrones; Cherubim; Seraphim. In the Orthodox worship, every Monday is dedicated to the angels.
essenes.crosswinds.net/odict.htm


Entrepreneurs who offer capital to new business start ups.
www.ukfavourites.com/glossary.htm


The angels are created heavenly beings who serve as God's messangers and helpers. They are made out of spirit and not physical matter and so live forever. But they are part of God's creation, and so are not part of, or equivalent to, God's divine being.
uwacadweb.uwyo.edu/religionet/er/christ/Cglossry.htm


Angel investors are successful entrepreneurs who are willing to invest some of their gains in new ventures. They typically also act as mentors to the founding entrepreneurs. What differentiates angels from other investors is that a)they invest their own money (not other peoples' money which they manage) and b)they have been an entrepreneur themselves.
www.sfu.ca/~mvolker/biz/glossary.htm


Usually professional, retired and individual investors, with business experience and money, interested in investing between $25 000 and $300 000 in a business venture. They usually bring experience and know-how into the business and will want to take an active role in providing some strategic orientation to the company's management team.
strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mangb/stepstogrowth/engdoc/glossary.php


Spiritual beings who are God's agents and messengers for the conducting of His affairs. They are ministering spirits sent to serve those who are to inherit salvation (Hebrews 1:14). On certain specific occasions they are visible and recognisable, at other times they are not (e.g. Luke 2:8-15).
www.airborne.org/definitions.htm


(energetic spiritual beings who assist humans with the living process because they have special powers or help us to see our own special powers.While generally thought not to be in physical form, many incarnate into physical form and also come and go as needed from spirit to physical form as needed.
www.rememberingsoul.com/potglossary.html


(Gr. Angelos, "messenger"). Bodiless beings, purely spirits, created by God before man. They are superior in nature and intelligence to man; and, like man, they have understanding and free will. Some of them are appointed to guard the faithful (guardian angels). Angels are grouped in nine orders (tagmata) as follows: Angels; Archangels; Principalities; Powers; Virtues; Dominations; Thrones; Cherubim; Seraphim. In the Orthodox worship, every Monday is dedicated to the angels.
www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/misc/litsas_dictionary_orthodox_terminology.htm


Special creatures that assist in guidance. They execute your free choice as long as it does not interfere with the free choice of others. The word Angel comes form the word angelos which means messenger. They have no sex, we all have at least one and Raphael is the angel of healing.
www.night-thunder.com/metaglossary.html


The word 'angel' comes from the Latin angelus, meaning a supernatural entity of usually benign intent. But it's Biblical meaning usually means 'messenger'.
www.psytechacademy.com/Glossary.html


Individuals who invest their money in start-up companies.
www.seglobalalliance.com/references/trading_glossary.html


Children who respond to the Happy Face Token System Cheerfully and Happily.
home.att.net/~floridabestmom/glossary.htm


Individuals providing venture capital.
www.scottrade.com/Demo/Glossary/a.htm


1,000 feet. To say "I am at Angels 15" means you are at 15,000 feet.
www.alliedgovernment.org/wwii_dictionary.htm


Investors with capital to invest in new or growing business ventures.
wwmr.org/AUSB-globalecon/glossary.htm


Angels are collective entities who promote the well-being of their constituents.
members.tripod.com/~Paschen/glossary.html

[The Spawn]

And we both know that that is not the case.

[X-Chick]

Yes, since you've already said that you dislike me.

[The Spawn]

If that is what you feel my implication was, so be it.

[X-Chick]

Your exact words were "I dislike the both of you greatly..."

[The Spawn]

If that is what you feel my implication was, so be it.

[X-Chick]

Could there be any other implication in that except that you don't like Alf and me?

And if you're talking about the last part of my response to Aba, we've already been through that.

[The Spawn]

You and him right?

[X-Chick]

Him who? Alf?

[The Spawn]

'Aba'

[X-Chick]

No, I was referring to "...and that I like him." You and I have already been through that.

[The Spawn]

Pronouns please.

[X-Chick]

Okay, the "him" in my previous statement, is you. Aba already knows I like him. You...I don't know. You didn't believe me.

[The Spawn]

*don't.

[X-Chick]

Right, you don't. You never told me why you don't.

[Assassin32]

When we die, if we go to Heaven, do we become angels?

[X-Chick]

No, angels were created to be angels. They were never humans, and humans will never be angels.

[Abaddon]

What is love?

[The Spawn]

A deep feeling of sexual desire and attraction.

[X-Chick]

Not necessarily. Sexual attraction doesn't always come with love. There's family love and friendly love.

Love
1. A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness.
2. A feeling of intense desire and attraction toward a person with whom one is disposed to make a pair; the emotion of sex and romance.

[The Spawn]

Sexual desire, or attraction.

[X-Chick]

Sexual desire=lust not love

You can screw someone you don't love and you can love someone you don't screw.

[The Spawn]

But you're still making love.

[X-Chick]

There's a difference between making love and screwing. Technically they're different terms for the same thing, but really they aren't the same aren't all. Making love has love in it, and screwing may not.

[The Spawn]

You contradict yourself. If you decide not to agree that you did contradict yourself, we can both agree that you are using opinion. both ways, your statements would be deemed invalid.

[X-Chick]

Okay, it is my opinion that making love and screwing are not the same things, but it is a fact that sexual desire does not always equal love.

[The Spawn]

No one is disagreeing with you there. Whether or not I was for or against that opinion though, I'd win either way. But just agreeing with your opinion saves me time.

[X-Chick]

Are you agreeing because you really agree or just to save time?

[The Spawn]

I already told you that I chose the latter.

[X-Chick]

You shouldn't agree if you really don't. Anyway, why don't you teach me something.

[The Spawn]

I just did.

[X-Chick]

I know. Teach me something else. Find something about the paranormal that I don't already know.

[The Spawn]

Why I don't (and, indeed, can't) accept the story of Noah's Ark as any sort of fact; and why I'm astonished that many educated adults consider it to be history and not mythology.
For me, it is one of the least believable parts of the entire Bible, and any theist who attempts to use it convert someone will have a hard job on their hands.

Let's look at it: Noah (at the ripe old age of 600!) and his sons built, using their bare hands, a seagoing vessel large enough to comfortably house a breeding pair of every land animal on the planet (although the bible isn't clear on this; in one place it says a pair of each creature, a few verses away it says seven of each clean, and two of each unclean creature (how did Noah know if tigers, kangaroos and penguins are clean or unclean?)), for at least forty days.

Okay, so what are the problems with this :-


The Ark itself
The Flood
The Animals
The Survivors
The Rainbow
The Fossil Record
The Geologic Column
Conclusion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Ark
This boat would have had to have been bigger than a super-tanker!
There are MILLIONS of species on the land. There are over three hundred and fifty thousand species of beetle alone. The sheer number of insects would fill several arks, before you even consider the larger creatures. The ark would have to be the single largest ship ever in the history of the world. Modern technology could not possibly create a ship large and stable enough to act as Noah's Ark (someone on alt.atheism suggested that Noah would have needed a space-suit to walk on the deck!).
Many species of land animal require highly specialised habitat and food to survive. Koala bears, for instance, eat one kilogram of fresh Eucalyptus- tree leaves per day, which provide all their water and nutrition (some people have suggested Noah had a year's supply of dried Euc. leaves. But Koalas need the leaves for their water. What did Noah do? Rehydrate them? With what, a desalination plant? Hold them out in the rain every morning?) Also, no matter what time of year it was, many creatures would be hibernating (it's always winter somewhere on the globe). Many creatures are only found on one continent, indeed some are limited to a small island/forest/mountain. It's a neat trick to be able to walk thousands of miles to the Middle East if you're hibernating on a remote island near Alaska.

How could the ark cope with all the specialised requirements of food/environment for millions of creatures? The 320 different species of humming-bird, for example, have very high metabolic rates and have to consume large amounts of nectar throughout the day. The Ark would have had to cater for 640 humming-birds, requiring an almost constant supply of fresh nectar. From flowers. Which wouldn't grow in great abundance in a dark, damp boat.

How could the ark cope with disposing of the waste products of those creatures? It must have had an incredibly advanced plumbing and ventilation system, superior to anything to be found on modern ocean liners or large military vessels (eg. aircraft carriers). One problem that dairy farmers have is that vast quantities of fresh dung produce highly toxic gases (falling into the slurry pit can be fatal because of this), and it would have been many times worse on an Ark. Next time you are at a zoo, ask one of the keepers how easy it is to deal with the needs of the few hundred animals they have for a month, and then imagine scaling that up to a gigantic floating zoo with millions of creatures being looked after by one old man and his family.

Where did Noah find the pitch to waterproof the Ark with? Flood theorists say that all the world's oil / petroleum deposits were formed during the Flood. How could Noah find and use pitch to waterproof the Ark before the Flood, when the pitch was formed during the Flood? Did he have SCUBA gear as well, and kept diving down to gather fresh pitch from the ocean floor and apply it to the Ark while it was floating around? Pitch is a petroleum deposit, which takes more than a couple of thousand years to form. (Some people argue that "wood-pitch" was used instead, although the commonly held belief is that it was petroleum-pitch).

Using modern equipment, it can take a good shipyard years to build a large ship, using hundreds of men. Noah (five hundred years old at the time) apparently had himself, a few helpers and a lot of gopher-wood trees. We are expected to believe that he built the Ark, using crude hand-tools, over a period of many years in a world filled with evil, scheming criminals. ("The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.")

Here are a few of the things he would have had to deal with (some of these have been suggested by readers of this page):

Wood rotting. Left out in the open, the partly-built Ark would be exposed to the elements, such as rain, wind, lightning (a large structure is likely to get struck quite often, and wood burns), fungus, termites and ravenous beavers (well, maybe not beavers). Maybe he first built a huge hangar in which he could construct it safely? That would have almost as great an enterprise as the Ark itself! Unfortunately, the Bible does not enlighten us as to the whereabouts of Noah's Shed. I guess it was washed away in the Flood...
Theft and vandalism. The hordes of fiendish deviants living around Noah at the time would no doubt have had enjoyed enormous sinful fun by sabotaging the Ark, stealing the wood for themselves (why cut and prepare your own wood when Noah's done the job for you?) and harassing the few workers.
Sag. Modern shipyards build large ships from metal, as wooden ships beyond a certain size simply cannot support their own weight out of water. Either Noah had access to some amazing technology unknown to us, or the size of the Ark is somewhat exaggerated.
The Flood

Then we come to the flood itself. The bible states that all mountains were covered, until they were about twenty feet below water. This also rules out the idea that it was somehow a local flood, confined to the Middle East (the most bizarre explanation I have heard along these lines is that Mars came close to the Earth, and it's gravitational pull raised up a dome of water in the region. The problems with this are too many to even think about.)

Some people might find it a little odd that God, omnipotent being who can create entire galaxies in an instant, takes weeks and weeks to flood the planet. Perhaps water is a bit fiddly to create?

How much water was there?

And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Over the top of Mt. Everest then? The volume of water would have been astronomical. Millions of cubic miles. Where did it come from? Where did it go? The polar ice-caps are not big enough. The atmosphere does not contain millions of cubic miles of water.

Using a bit of armchair maths, we can roughly calculate how much water would have been needed to cover the planet to the top of Mt. Everest:
The radius of the Earth is approx. 6370km
The height of Everest above sea-level is approx. 8.8 km
Therefore, the volume of the Earth is approx. 1,082,696,932,000km³, or 1,080 billion cubic kilometers.
The volume of the earth to the height of Everest is 1,087,190,293,000km³
Subtracting the first volume from the second gives approx. 4,493,361,000, or four thousand, five hundred million cubic kilometers of water!
Also, this rain is supposed to have fallen within about 40 days. That means that there would have been about 220 metres of rainfall every day over the entire planet (8800/40 = 220)! A few centimetres in a day is considered to be extremely heavy rain.
( Note: volume of sphere = 4/3 pi r³, and I use the American billion of 1,000,000,000 here )


Many Ark-theorists claim that scale models of the Ark have been built according to the Biblical specifications, and found to be extremely sea-worthy in test-tanks. I hope that these tests also attempted to simulate the correct amount of rainfall by aiming several high-pressure fire-hoses directly at the model.

Assuming it was fresh water (as it rained) this would have severely diluted the oceans, causing devastation among the marine creatures. Ask anyone with a marine fish-tank just how sensitive reef-fish and corals are to changes in water conditions. Virtually all sea-life that could not stand brackish water would have been destroyed.

How did so many plants survive being submerged in brackish water for so long? Again, many plants are quite sensitive to conditions. Take some of your household plants and leave them submerged in the bath or a pond for a year and see how they do.

Then, after the waters subside (where to?) there are still more problems with the story. What happened to all the corpses of the countless numbers of animals and humans that died? Surely there would have been terrible plague and disease caused by all that rotting meat.
Many sea-creatures would have been deposited in places they could not normally reach - inland lakes etc. Is there any evidence of marine fish skeletons being found in high, freshwater lake beds?

One imaginative way of explaining away the water is that the Earth was a lot flatter back then - the mountains were very low and the seas very shallow. After the Flood, God raised the mountains and sank the ocean floors, reducing the land area and creating space for the water to drain away to. As usual, there is no evidence to support this notion, and it also raises more questions.
For example, how did the deep-ocean sea creatures come about? There are plenty of fish than can only survive at the great pressures on the ocean bottoms, the abyssal plains. These could not have existed before the Flood, as the oceans were apparently too shallow. Maybe they evolved after the Flood (in an incredibly short time)? Maybe Satan created them (after all, they are all really ugly with lots of teeth)? Funny how creationists use evolution (and other branches of science) when it suits them, but denounce it as Satanic Lies the rest of the time...

Many claims are made for sighting of the remains of the Ark in the mountains of Turkey. These Ark-pieces are supposed to be about nine thousand feet up the side of one precipitous mountain or another (usually Ararat). Now, these mountains are not gently rolling hills. They're huge great things covered with snow and full of jagged crevices. The mountain-goats, birds and flying squirrels could have probably got down safely (as long as they didn't freeze or starve on the way), but elephants, penguins, camels and crocodiles are not noted for their natural mountaineering ability.

The Animals
Next, I have to ask how all the creatures managed to get back to their original habitats, or at least ones that would support them.
How did the koalas and kangaroos get back to Australia?
How did the polar bears and penguins get back the north/south poles?
How did the giant tortoises get back to the Galapagos islands?
How did the flightless dodos get back to Mauritius?
How did the army ants get back to the Amazon rain-forests?
As there were only two (or seven, depending) of each species, how did they manage to travel thousands of miles back to their place of origin without being eaten, dying in accidents or of starving to death due to lack of their normal (specialised) food supply?
Of course, not all the animals were able to get away. According to Genesis 8:20 Noah immediately sacrificed at least one of each pair of clean animal! That could have potentially been a lot of animals. Seems a bit pointless, really. After all, God told him to build the Ark - it would appear to be rather unnecessary to thank God afterwards for looking after the Ark, and thanking God by slaughtering His creations and producing a huge pile of bloody corpses seems a little odd... So, that's the "clean" breeding pairs ruined (or reduced considerably if there were seven). Unless of course they were breeding/pregnant during the voyage. But then, how did the Ark cope with all the extra mouths to feed?

Some creationists have come up with quite remarkably imaginative explanations as to how Noah managed to gather and store all the animals in a restricted space. A couple of the more interesting ones I've come across are:

He did not take adult animals, but eggs, babies and infants.
Presumably then, the creatures arrived at the Ark of their own accord, laid eggs or gave birth, and left poor old Noah to cope with the mess and figure out the best way to tend to the needs of the newborn tiger, chicken or tarantula. Exactly who got the job of producing all the gallons of milk for the young mammals is not explained.
He did not even gather babies and eggs, but sperm and ova (egg eggs, if you will).
The difficulties that this situation raises are best left to the imagination, and should probably not be brought up as a topic of conversation at the dinner table, or in front of sensitive Aunts.
Many of the animals hibernated, or went into some sort of suspended animation.
As mentioned above, how the already-hibernating beasties get there in the first place? Was this a natural form of hibernation (which requires the build-up of large fat reserves first), or some sort of miraculous state? How did the animals build up enough fat whilst walking thousands of miles to the Ark (which would be quite good exercise)? If it was all done with miracles, then why do creationists insist on explaining everything in naturalistic terms? Which is it? Magic or mundane?
Disease
Some of the "animals" that are usually left out of the story are microorganisms (germs, bacteria, disease-bugs and so on). Many bacteria, viruses and parasites spend their entire life-cycles within a specific host species. This means that all the humans, plants and animals on the Ark would have had to be carriers for all the species-specific diseases that we have today (presumably, someone on the Ark carried HIV/AIDS, someone else had hepatitis, and another had several strains of influenza). The Ark would have been a gigantic, disease-ridden plague-ship. Of course, maybe all modern diseases turbo-evolved after the Flood subsided (like the beetles : see below) - which makes you wonder how the surviving creatures managed to survive long enough to populate the world at all...
So, next time someone who doesn't accept evolution asks you where AIDS came from, pick up your Bible and turn to Genesis... Noah had it in his pocket!

The People
Once Noah had seen all the animals off, he then had to set about repopulating the world. Again, incest in the bible rears it's ugly head. Noah's family had to inbreed to have children. Sons and daughters, mothers and fathers, first cousins and first cousins (as Noah's sons had their wives with them - eight people altogether) all nicely mixed together (just as an aside, as all people before Noah were now dead, how does anyone know if the other events in the O.T. are true? We only have Noah's word for it, surely?). The human race effectively began again with Noah & co.
Makes you wonder why the omniscient God even bothered with Adam & Eve. Why not start straight away with Noah?
It's also interesting to note that after the Flood, one of the first things the pure and virtuous Noah did was to make some wine, get drunk and roll around naked (Gen 9:21). Well, I suppose sailors always like to unwind a little after a long sea voyage...

[The Spawn]

The Rainbow
Whilst discussing the Ark story with a Jehovah's Witness, the subject of the rainbow cropped up. According to the Bible, God placed a rainbow in the sky after the flood, presumably to brighten the place up a bit, what with all the mud and dead animals etc.
I asked if that was the first rainbow ever to be seen, and she said yes, it was. This raises some fairly major questions:

Were the laws of physical optics changed that day? They must have been, as rainbows are extremely simple phenomena.
How did light refract through water before that?
Did the eyes of all creatures have to change also?
How did we see colour before that?
Rainbows only form during rain. In the Bible, the rainbow appears several months after the rains have stopped and the waters have drained away. So was this a real rainbow, or a magical rainbow that needs neither sun nor rain? (thanks to Jim Howell for pointing this out)
She couldn't really answer this, but (after talking to other JWs) came up with this : "There was no rain before the flood, just very heavy dew each day."
[ Exercise for the reader : roll on the floor with your legs in the air, laughing like a hyena on giggle-drugs. ]


The Dinosaurs and Fossil Record
This is an area that causes problems for Flood-theorists. They usually state that the dinosaur bones we find today are the remains of the dinosaurs that died during the Flood.
But why didn't Noah take any of these dinosaurs on the Ark? The Bible says he took two of EVERY LAND ANIMAL (and if dinosaurs were "clean", seven of each). Dinosaurs surely fit into this category, do they not?

Also, if the fossil record was indeed created during the flood, then why do we consistently find that the lower down you go, the smaller the fossils become?
If you take a large tank of water, and empty a big bucket of assorted stones (ranging in size from silt and sand up to large rocks) into it, you will notice that the BIG ONES SINK FIRST, with the fine silt and sand settling on top. If the fossil record was created during the flood, surely we should see large bones in the lower strata, and the smallest ones higher up.

What we actually find is the exact opposite, which directly contradicts this part of the Flood hypothesis and supports the evolutionary view.

If all the land animals died during the flood, we would expect the fossil record to be a hopelessly jumbled mess, with human bones being mixed up with dinosaur bones and Trilobites. What we actually find is a neatly layered set of strata that appear to be in chronological order, showing the evolutionary development from early, simple creatures up to modern, complex creatures. Also, creatures of approximately similar size, shape and weight should (according to the Creation theory) sink at about the same rate. Why aren't dog skeletons mixed in with Compsognathus? Why aren't elephants mixed in with Stegosaurus? Why isn't pollen mixed all the way through, instead of starting at the strata containing flowers? Could it be that they were not all alive at the same time?

If anyone can explain how this could have happened, I'd be intrigued to find out.
Maybe the small animals all drowned and sank first, while the larger creatures were able to float about a bit before sinking? Can you imagine that?!? Noah looks over the side of the Ark to see ants, dogs, cows, T. Rex, Moas etc. all treading water, and disappearing in order of size...

The Geological Column
There are many interesting features than can be found all over the planet, throughout the depth of the Earth's crust. Apparently, all the sedimentary rocks were deposited during the Deluge.
Unfortunately, there are many features that are simply impossible to create during a global, catastrophic Flood.

This image is not intended to be an accurate representation of any particular location, I just knocked it together to show the type of layers and boundaries that can be observed all over the planet. Supposedly deposited during a single year of rain and flood.



The anomalies, as far as a Flood is concerned, include:

coal seams, interleaved between marine sediment layers.
salt seams, which are produced when shallow seas dry up (not easy during a flood).
coal seams, exhibiting signs of forest fire (not easy during a flood)
rain-marks.
dessication-cracks, when mud is baked dry in the sun
wind-blown sand-dunes
roots and burrows. Okay at the surface, but interleaved between layers of sediment?
meteor impact craters
dinosaur footprints. Some dino prints have been found on coal seams, which were supposedly created during the flood.
unconformities - very common. Sediments are often tilted, raised, eroded by wind and rain, and then more sediment is deposited on top.
Individually, any one of these might be explained away by the Creationists. But these can be found all over the planet, in many different configurations. The one I've drawn here is entirely feasible, but not in the context of a Flood. I haven't even included igneous intrusions, which only it make it more difficult for Flood Theorists to explain.
The Geologic Column, which was originally described by Creationists, is the single strongest piece of evidence against the Noachian Deluge. It simply could not have been created during a year-long Flood.

The flood year would have had to go like this:


sediment
waters recede, dinosaurs walk on sediment
forest grows, dies, turns to coal
sediment
water recedes, meteor strike
sediment
water recedes, plants grow, still-living rodents burrow
sediment
water recedes, rain marks ground, rain "craters" dry and harden
floods, shallow sea evaporates in a few days, leaving salt
more flood, sedimentation (without washing salt away)
flood recedes, mud bakes dry in sun
forest grows, dies, turns to coal. Maybe forest fires.
more sediment
All in space of a few months. If you accept a literal reading of Genesis, that is the sort of scenario you have to attempt to deal with.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion
This seems an incredibly complex way to go about ridding the world of sinners, doesn't it? Not only that, it doesn't seem to have actually worked. If God intended to re-breed the human race from the pure and virtuous Noah, why do we see so much "sin" in the world today? Surely God would have foreseen the outcome? I suppose it could be argued that the troubles in the world today are as nothing compared with that in Noah's time, but I don't think the people around Noah had problems with drugs, schoolchildren with assault rifles, and weapons of mass destruction (apart from God, of course). If the world today is at least as bad as Noah's world, why did God bother? Maybe he cannot see the future?
God, who can create or destroy entire galaxies with no effort at all, has to get some poor slob to build an enormous ship, transport millions of animals from all over the planet to this ship, flood the entire planet, drain the water and then redistribute the animals again. What is the point? Why not just click his fingers and cause everything to be as he wishes it to be? Why go to the trouble of causing the terrible deaths by drowning of billions of animals, birds, insects and humans? This includes, of course, all those innocent babies and children who haven't had time to even start sinning yet.

Drowning babies... Quite odd behaviour for an all-powerful, infinitely compassionate God, is it not? Heck, I suppose God knew they were going to grow up into sinners and decided to get rid of them early. Of course, as they hadn't actually sinned yet, they couldn't go to Hell, so I suppose they must have gone to Heaven. But in that case, why did they deserve to have the life choked out of them by violent, muddy flood-waters? God does work in a mysterious way! (See my Flood Story for one possible scenario)

I cannot imagine how anyone could give any credibility whatsoever to the story of Noah's Ark, it really does defy belief.

But then,of course, God can do anything, we should not attempt to understand him, and what he does do, he does in ways beyond our comprehension.

I don't think he could have come up with anything more mysteriously incomprehensible than the bizarre Ark story.

That is the problem, really. In order to accept Noah's Ark as fact, you must believe in God first. Without belief in God, it is just laughable. You're not going to convince many people to follow your religion by sitting them down and saying "Well, let me tell you this fascinating and factual story about a man, some animals and a big boat a few thousand years ago.". With total, unquestioning belief in God, it works, no matter how strange it seems, as you can just tell yourself "God sorted it out". To me, though, that just seems to be a huge cop-out.

If anyone can address the questions and issues I have laid out here, without using a blatant cop-out (e.g.. "God did it all, do not question His ways.") I would be happy to hear from you.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© Adrian Barnett 1997,1998,1999, 2000
Last updated 27th June 2000 A
r
k









Insects fact sheet
As an idea of how many insects Noah would have had to take on the ark, here is a list of insect orders with the number of species in each (source - Natural History Museum):


COLLEMBOLA: 6000 eg. springtails
THYSANURA: 370 e.g.. silverfish
EPHEMEROPTERA: 2100 eg. mayflies
ODONATA: 5500 eg. dragonflies
PLECOPTERA: 2000 eg. stoneflies
BLATTODEA: 3700 eg. cockroaches
ISOPTERA: 2300 eg. termites
MANTODEA: 1800 eg. mantids
DERMAPTERA: 1800 eg. earwigs
ORTHOPTERA: 20500 eg. grasshoppers
PHASMATODEA: 2500 eg. stick insects
PSCOPTERA: 3200 eg. bark lice
PHTHIRAPTERA: 3000 eg. biting lice
HEMIPTERA: 82000 eg. aphids
THYSANOPTERA: 5000 eg. thrips
MEGALOPTERA: 250 eg. alderflies
RAPHIDIOPTERA: 175 eg. snakeflies
NEUROPTERA: 5000 eg. ant-lions
COLEOPTERA: 400000 eg. beetles
MECOPTERA: 400 eg. scorpion flies
SIPHONAPTERA: 2400 eg. fleas
DIPTERA: 120000 eg. fruit-flies
TRICHOPTERA: 10000 eg. caddisflies
LEPIDOPTERA: 150000 eg. butterflies
HYMENOPTERA: 130000 eg. ants, bees

giving a grand total of approx. 965420 different species of insect, about a million (and these are just the species known to western science. There could be another several million unknown species). Given a male and female, make that at least two million insects aboard the ark, ranging in size from a millimetre, up to six inches in size, many having extremely specialised requirements for life, (not to mention quite an appetite for eating other insects...).
Creationists object to the idea of "species" aboard the Ark, preferring to use "kind" instead. Thus, instead of having nearly a million beetles running around it (beetles not being known for sitting patiently in their pens), Noah simply had a male and female of one "kind" of beetle from which all the others known today have "diversified" (or "evolved", but let's not mention that word). Now, let's say the Flood happened 4,000 years ago, and there are 400,000 known species of beetle. A quick sum tells us that, on average, 100 new species of beetle have evolved (or been Created) every year from those two original parents. That's two new species of beetle a week! In order to explain the current diversity of life, creationists need to conjure up a form of evolution that proceeds at a rate which would make any biologist fall off her stool in astonishment!

[The Kingpin]

About Noah being 600 years old, that could be true. There were not many diseases, and no pollution back in those days. No foreign toxins would enter and harm his body, thus letting him live to the full extent of the human life.

[Danalys]

there were still free radicals (particles) they would damage people enough so they couldn't live that long. that is even if your claims about those times were true, which i can't be bother to look up if they were or not. but from my knowlage of the growth of civilisations i'm thinking not.

[The Kingpin]

You listen to rap, Spawn?

[Abaddon]

Teach me about the Roanokes Island mystery

[Assassin32]

Who defeated you?

[The Spawn]

I listen to rap

The Lost Colony of Roanoke Island

On May 8, 1587 a group of 117 men, women, and children left England to sail across the Atlantic Ocean. Excited by stories from other travelers to the New World, the colonists under the command of John White were headed for a destination on the Chesapeake Bay.

Because of concerns for the upcoming summer hurricane season, the colonists were forced to stop their journey earlier than planned and they settled on an island off the northeast coast of what is now North Carolina, at the southern edge of the Chesapeake Bay watershed.

Picture: Map of Roanoke Island and Jamestown. Roanoke Island is situated off the coast of North Carolina. Jamestown, VA is located at the James River, a tributary to the Chesapeake Bay.

This colony on Roanoke Island was the first English settlement in the New World. In 1587, shortly after the arrival of the colonists, John White's daughter gave birth to the first child of European parents to be born on American soil; the name of the baby was Virginia Dare.

Life, however, wasn't easy for the early colonists, and on August 27, 1587 John White, now the new governor of the colony, left the settlement and returned to England to get more supplies.

Because of England's war with Spain, there were no ships to spare, and it took John White three years before he could return to Roanoke Island with the supplies. When he finally returned to the colony in 1590 he found the island deserted. The only trace left by the colonists was a mysterious 'cro' carved in a tree, and 'croatan' carved in a fence post.

back to top

Trees provide an explanation

Where did the colony go, and why did they leave the island? Where they went or what happened to them is still a mystery (see the 'further reading' section for more information), but a study by researchers Dennis Blanton from the College of William and Mary and climatologist David Stahle of the tree ring laboratory of the University of Arkansas sheds some light on the mysterious circumstances under which the colonists disappeared.

The researchers looked at the tree rings of centuries-old bald cypress trees in swamps along the Blackwater and Nottoway rivers on the Virginia-North Carolina border. Every year in the growth season, trees grow by adding a layer of wood cells, usually consisting of thin-walled cells formed early in the growing season (called earlywood) and thicker-walled cells produced later in the growing season (called latewood). Trees usually stop growing at the end of fall and the difference between the earlywood and latewood is visible as the tree ring, usually extending around the entire circumference of the tree.

The width of the tree ring indicates how much the tree has grown in a particular growth season. The wider the ring, the better the conditions for growth. By measuring the width of the rings from the trunks of the trees, the research team learned that the rings were smaller than average during the years 1587–1589 and during the years 1606–1612.

Back to top

What a time to create a settlement!

As it turns out, the tree rings indicate that the settlement of Roanoke Island coincided with the worst three-year drought of the past 800 years. What a time to create a settlement! And even worse, when the Jamestown colonists arrived years later to set up their colony in Virginia, another major drought occurred, this time the driest seven-year episode in the entire period between 1215 and 1984.

Picture: Tree rings indicating drought. The width of a tree ring indicates how much a tree has grown in a particular growth season. These tree rings indicate that the settlements of Roanoke Island and Jamestown coincided with respectively the worst three-year and seven-year period of the past 800 years.

Jamestown was founded in 1607 but nearly failed in 1609 and 1610 when the colony suffered an appallingly high death rate. The droughts would have affected the colony's supply of food and clean water. The colonists were expected to live off the land and of trade and tribute from the Indian. But because of the drought neither the colonists nor the Indians had much food to share.

What exactly happened to the colonists at Roanoke Island is still a mystery, but the research indicates that the colonists at both Roanoke and Jamestown established a settlement in the worst possible times.



Long story 32.

[Abaddon]

Interesting......

[The Spawn]

http://www.dormanart.com/images/venom.jpg

Subject: Venom
Real Name: Eddie Brock
Height: 6' 3"
Weight: 260 lbs
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Reddish Blond
Citizenship: United States of America
Legal Status: Criminal record in U.S.
Place of Birth: San-Francisco, California
Marital Status: Divorced
Known Relatives: Carol Brock (father), Anne Weying (ex-wife, deceased), Mary Brock (younger sister)
Known Confidants: "Beck"
Known Allies: Spider-Man, Morbius, Vengeance
Major Enemies: Spider-Man, Carnage, Life Foundation, Juggernaut, Scarlet-Spider, Jury
Usual Bases: New York City (Current)
Former Bases: New York City, San-Francisco, California
Current Groups: None
Former Groups: None
Education: BA in Journalism
Powers: Brock's powers stem from his symbiotic relationship with the alien that serves as his costume. The symbiote can mimic any type of clothing whatsoever, as well as blending Venom in his surroundings, rendering him invisible. The symbiote has augmented all of Brock's physical abilities to superhuman levels equal to, and in some cases greater than, Spider-Man's. His strength is increased geometrically by the symbiote that he merged with, in other words, the stronger Eddie Brock's body; the more it is enhanced by the symbiote.
Abilities: Venom also possesses the ability to adhere to most surfaces. Venom can animate any part of his costume and can fire a web-like substance from his hands. Because the symbiote was previously attached to Peter, it knows how to shield itself from Spider-Man's spider-sense. He can also fire web from his wrist without the aid of web shooters.
Vulnerabilities: The symbiote's main weakness is sound. Sonic blasts and very loud noises send it into a state of severe shock. The symbiote is completely merged with Eddie Brock and it is unknown whether it can be completely removed via sonics. Venom is also vulnerable to fire, and to his own twisted code of honor which prevents from harming those he deems to be innocents.
Sanction: The symbiote is extremely sensitive to sonic and thermal attacks, that being said, any gadget which emits sonar reverberations or fire will get the job done. Either those, or a real big bell and a match.

[Abaddon]

Venom defeated you?

[The Spawn]

http://www.super3.net/revista/rev55/fotos/spiderman.jpg

Subject: Spider-Man
Real Name: Peter Parker
Height: 5' 10"
Weight: 165 lbs
Eyes: Hazel
Hair: Brown
Citizenship: United States of America
Legal Status: Citizen
Place of Birth: New York City, NY
Marital Status: Married
Known Relatives: Richard Parker (father, deceased), Mary Parker (mother, deceased), Aunt May (aunt), Ben Parker (uncle, deceased), Mary Jane (wife)
Known Confidants: Harry Osbourne (deceased)
Known Allies: Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Black Cat
Major Enemies: Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, Carnage, Vulture, The Kingpin, Hobgoblin, Kraven (deceased), Sandman, Venom, Mysterio
Usual Bases: New York City (Current)
Former Bases: New York City
Current Groups: None
Former Groups: The Avengers
Education: BA in Journalism and Science
Powers: Has the proportionate strength of a common house spider. His spider-strength allows him to lift or press 10 tons or more (if he's under stress). He uses strength with his spider-sense and speed in combat, making him extremely hard to surprise, harder to hit, and even harder to withstand. As well as gaining the strength of a spider, Peter also inherited the arachnid's swift speed. He can move and react several times faster than an ordinary human. His reflexes allow him to dodge a bullet (if far enough away), and coupled with his uncanny spider-sense, gives him a definite advantage in dangerous situations. His Spidey-Sense has saved him umpteen million times in the heat of battle. It is an extended danger sense, and it gives Peter an itching feeling at the base of his skull whenever danger is near. The scope of this power is enormous, and aids him in both everyday and combat situations. The sensation this power gives him helps him to 'focus-in' on the source of the danger. It acts like radar, guiding him if he's stricken blind, or plunged into darkness. Spider-Man's sense also warns him of potential danger, such as a hidden weapon or a disguised enemy. It alerts him of other types of danger as well, including times where his secret identity is at risk, or crumbling ceilings, creaky floors when he is trying to be silent. His spider-tracers run on the same frequency as his spider-sense, freeing him from having to use a tracking device. Peter's Spider-Sense will warn him of all threats, even those that are not particularly deadly (snowballs, swatting brooms, etc.).
Abilities: His spider-grip lets him get into all kinds of places, like air vents and elevator shafts. He often uses his "grip" to hide in corners and on ceilings, dropping in at the most opportune time. His ability to adhere to surfaces helps him avoid deadly falls as well. He can also use this power to hold objects and things.
Vulnerabilities: One down-side of the aforementioned tracers is that, once discovered, they become a simple way to lure Spidey into a trap. Also, those who understand the technology can modify them to overload Peter's Spider-Sense.
Sanction: Parker is a pretty touchy character, that being said, his family and friends can be easily used for exploitation. During battles, he’s far too droll and never completely pays attention to the task at hand unless he’s been hurt or has broken a nail. Gadgets which give the impression of being one thing, but end up being another will get the job done. In other words, a toaster which actually emits purple knockout gas.

[Abaddon]

what is the point in this batman protocol?

[The Spawn]

To rid people of narrow mindness. Plus, I'm just adding more intel. Which is what the thread is about...think of this as a lesson in not underestimating someone.

[Abaddon]

Who said I was underestimating anybody?:confused:

You have confidence issues.:o

[The Spawn]

I never said you did. You have confidence issues.

[Abaddon]

you implied it.

[X-Chick]

It's nice watching someone else go through this for a change. :up:

[The Spawn]

You already know what 1+1 equals, does that me I think you don't know it?

[Abaddon]

:confused:




How would I even know what your thinking?

[The Spawn]

I don't know, you said you knew what I was implying...

[Abaddon]

Because you made it clear that is what you meant.Dont go back and try and change your initial implication now.:mad:

[The Spawn]

I don't edit my posts. And don't worry...due to the fact that I plan things like this a week in advance, I can't actually be proven wrong.






































Even when I am.

[Abaddon]

I never said anything about editing.

[The Spawn]

I know, I just wanted to erase that from your head for future confrontations.

[Abaddon]

What made you think it was in my head?

[The Spawn]

Do onto others, as they do onto you.

[Abaddon]

I don't see how thats relevant.:confused:

[Kessel Day]

just a few thoughts on your ark/flood/rainbow thesis, my dear Spawn:

1. the ark was as long as a football field and was three stories high. lotsa room there.

2. the Bible says Noah brought "kinds" of animals, not a sample of each of the various types of dog, etc. perhaps at the time, the genes allowing for those variations were locked in those samples Noah took with him. (Gen 7:14 "every wild beast according to its kind")

as far as food supplies, (and this is just speculation on my part) - if God could put Adam to sleep, couldn't He do the same for the animals? or at least make their metabolisms slow for a time?

3. i don't know where you got the idea that tar was only created during the time of the flood. the Bible said Noah used tar so that's what he used. (animals have been on the earth a lot longer than humans afterall. even the Bible says that.)

and haven't dinosaurs been found trapped in tar pits?

as for the ark rotting - it was made from a "resinous tree" (Gen 6:14). i believe people use those kind of trees even today because they are not likely to mold.

4. the people of Noah's time lived for hundreds of years. it was only after the flood that man's lifespan diminished.

5. why did the lifespans diminish? the book of Genesis (1:6-8) explains that there was an "expanse" of water in the heavens (the upper atmosphere). that expanse could have blocked the harmful radiation that is part of our daily lives today.

prior to the flood, it is very possible that a cloud barrier, diffuse enough to see the moon and the sun but too thick to see stars, may have kept this earth at tropical temperatures while protecting its inhabitants from harmful rays.

6. that "expanse" also explains a) where did the water come from for the flood and b) why a rainbow was possible after the flood and not before. . i have read that a great deal of water could have been stored in a very hot upper layer of our atmosphere. if it was thick enough, rainbows would have been unlikely to occur.

more later.

Kess

[Assassin32]

Spawn, it's been well over a week.


And, Venom was in the Sinister Six for awhile.

[Kessel Day]

this is an interesting little thread you have here, my dear spawn. everything from Biblical criticism to early american history to the abilities of superheroes. :)


back to da ark:

1. the argument about incest is specious really. the account never says that Noah had any more children, but if he did, wouldn't they be with his own wife? he was a righteous man. Noah's children's children would have married their cousins most likely. and being so close to human perfection, they would have not had the defective genes that modern humans carry.

as for Noah getting inebriated, wouldn't the end of the world make you a little nervous too? :)

2. why did God flood the earth? one reason was of course to rid it of the wicked people who lived there. another was to cause the end of the violent hybrid children of fallen angels (Gen 6:1-4) and to make those demonic angels go back to a spirit form indefinitely. it was then that they were condemned to dense darkness. (2Pet 2:4)

3. where are the dead that God destroyed? since they were condemned by God Himself, they will not be resurrected. they are not in a burning Hell, nor are any of them in heaven.

we are warned that our own actions affect our families. God's character is such that He would never put to death the innocent with the guilty. (He can see into the future if He wishes.) perhaps one of the reasons it took many years to complete the ark was that He wanted any deserving ones to die a natural death before the flood occurred.

all those God destroys deserve it. (Jer 17:10)

God, who can create or destroy entire galaxies with no effort at all, has to get some poor slob to build an enormous ship, transport millions of animals from all over the planet to this ship, flood the entire planet, drain the water and then redistribute the animals again. What is the point? Why not just click his fingers and cause everything to be as he wishes it to be?

this is a particularly interesting question because it in embodies the entire theme of the Bible. to answer it, one must go back farther than the episode with Noah, back to the creation of man.

God created perfect humans who had not only perfect bodies, but perfect minds. the earth and all that was in it, He gave to them with His blessing. the only thing He held back was His sovereignty over them - His right to decide for them what is right conduct and what is wrong conduct. that was what the test of the tree of "good and evil" was about.

Adam and Eve had free will and knew perfectly well what the consequences of disobedience were. (God wanted their love and willing obedience and as their Creator He deserved it. He does not want robots.)

so what does this have to do with why God didn't just destroy A&E when they sinned and just start again?


killing A&E would not prove that God is the correct one to decide what is good or bad for the human race. it would only prove that He has the power to destroy it.

who would know it, you say? if He destroyed everyone, no one would know any different, right?

wrong. the angels would know. they have free will too. (some have been persuaded by satan to leave heaven anyway.) how could they love someone who, if you disobeyed, POW!, you're gone, even if you had an honest question.


satan's questions to eve (Gen 3:1-5) brought into question the right of God to rule humans.

the questions also implied that God was holding something beneficial back from us. what was that "beneficial" thing? - "being like God, knowing good and bad".

but how could God prove it was beneficial for humans to follow His commands?

He had to let a lot of time pass where humans could try many types of governments to see if they could bring happiness to all of mankind. this humans have failed to do.

from time to time, God has involved Himself in the world of mankind to bring about the reconciliation of people to Himself or to further His purposes.

perhaps the world of Noah's day was so violent (Gen 6:11) that God was protecting those who were righteous from destruction. Noah preached about the coming of the flood for many years (2Pet2:5) before it came and still only 8 persons survived.

at some point, however, God will step into the world's affairs again to finish His purpose for the earth - to fill it with perfect, peaceful, loving humans. those who will not love their neighbors as themselves will be once again destroyed. (Ps 37:10,11)

it is then that the meek will truly inherit the earth that our first parents lost.

[I.M. Fletcher]

Tell me about Atlantis. Has anyone discovered it yet?

MacGyver discovered it back in the early 90s on TV, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

[Abaddon]

Kessel Day is intelligent for a religious person.:)




I personally feel the Bible is often misinterpreted by people.I dont think its meant to be taken in literal terms like so many people do.God KNEW Adam and Eve would eat the apple.He wanted them too.You dont just put people in a beautiful land,(with a mischievous serpent),give them evreything they need,but tell them not to touch one thing,and expect them to listen.Its ludicrous.God was probably waiting in the bushes all along,ready to spring out and say "AHA!SINNERS!:mad:".
I keep hearing chritians say,"Oh if they hadnt sinned we'd still be in Eden".:rolleyes:
They really dont get it.God was like a dad trying to get rid of his kids after they got older,and force them into independence.He was just sneaky about it.

But it is very telling that mans fall from grace came when they ate of the Tree of Knowlegde of Good and Evil.Humans are the only beings with any moral percepion.That stuff doesnt exist in any nature but our own.The world is what is,and there is really no such thing as good or bad.People might be motivated and judge by it,but it really doesnt matter to anyone but us.Its like a genetic flaw or something.

[Miss Kitty]

I don't have much to add because I am not a very religious gal.

Kitty

[Abaddon]

Then there was no point in you posting in this thread.



Abaddon

[Spider-Gamer]

LOL! :D


Spider-Gamer

[The Kingpin]

Who are/were the Fantastic Four's Rouges?

The Kingpin

[Assassin32]

:doom:

[Assassin32]

Dead.

[The Spawn]

The Ark thing isn't my take on the...event.

[The Spawn]

Atlantis: http://www.hardcoreware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16499&goto=nextoldest

[The Spawn]

I know its been more than a week...what are you referring to?

[Kessel Day]

Originally posted by Abaddon
Kessel Day is intelligent for a religious person.:)

thank you, abaddon . . . i think. :)




Originally posted by Abaddon
I personally feel the Bible is often misinterpreted by people.I dont think its meant to be taken in literal terms like so many people do.God KNEW Adam and Eve would eat the apple.He wanted them too.You dont just put people in a beautiful land,(with a mischievous serpent),give them evreything they need,but tell them not to touch one thing,and expect them to listen.Its ludicrous.God was probably waiting in the bushes all along,ready to spring out and say "AHA!SINNERS!:mad:".

why do you think God knew A&E would sin? if God can do anything, couldn't He, for justice's sake, not foreknow what they would do?

also, you are assuming that the tree that God forbid them to eat was more disirable looking than other trees; or that the kind of fruit on the true was different than any other tree in the garden. all the trees in Eden had luscious fruit.

lastly, abaddon, picture this: what would you do if someone took you to a beautiful island and gave you the most beautiful woman on earth as your wife. the job you were given to do there was something you always dreamed of doing; the food was delicious and you and the family you would have would be forever young and healthy . . . but

the owner of the island has told you in advance that all this will be yours forever as long as you did not push a certain red button. He tells you that not only will you lose your home, but that you and your wife will die. would you be tempted to push that button?


Originally posted by Abaddon
I keep hearing chritians say,"Oh if they hadnt sinned we'd still be in Eden".:rolleyes:
They really dont get it.God was like a dad trying to get rid of his kids after they got older,and force them into independence.He was just sneaky about it.

i guess it depends on your idea of what God is like. my God never lies and never "tricks" people into doing what is right. He gives them a choice and tells them the consequences.

and what a creepy thing that would be for God to do . . . to forbid A&E from eating from the tree, all the while wanting them to do it and then when they do it, He curses them both, throws them out of the garden and condemns their children to sickness and death. that is not a thing a God of love would do.

Adam and Eve both knew it was wrong to eat from that tree. they were both warned that they would die. the test was whether they felt God had the right to tell them not to do it.

more later, i'm late for work. :)

[Assassin32]

Exactly two weeks ago you said that you would have all of the Olympic trials information by the end of the week.

[Kessel Day]

Originally posted by The Spawn
The Ark thing isn't my take on the...event.

what is it that you believe? :)

[Kessel Day]

Originally posted by Abaddon

But it is very telling that mans fall from grace came when they ate of the Tree of Knowlegde of Good and Evil.Humans are the only beings with any moral percepion.That stuff doesnt exist in any nature but our own.The world is what is,and there is really no such thing as good or bad.People might be motivated and judge by it,but it really doesnt matter to anyone but us.Its like a genetic flaw or something.

i'm not really understanding what you are saying here, abaddon.

when adam disobeyed God, he sinned. that is what "fall from grace" means. adam was perfect until he made himself imperfect. the word sin means "to fall short of God's requirements". it doesn't mean adam didn't have any moral perception before he sinned.

how can i say that? first, adam was an adult not a child. he was taught by God for the long period of time he was in the garden without eve. adam had adult responsibilities - to cultivate the garden and to name all the animals. he would not have given the animals just any name. he would have had to study them first. by study of those animals, he learned about their biology - how they lived, how they procreated and how they died.

adam knew the law about the tree as did his wife, eve. adam and eve both knew the punishment; they knew what death was. eve was fooled into thinking that she could disobey with impunity because she would be "like God". adam probably followed her decision, not because he was fooled too (1Tim2:14), but because he loved her more than God.

lastly, abaddon: your argument that God wanted a&e to sin, makes God responsible for all the diseases and death that has taken place on the earth.

this is in direct contradiction to the Bible which says that death was brought about by adam's disobedience.

Rom 5:12 says "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned --"

adam could not have perfect children when he himself was flawed. we all die because of adam's choice; otherwise we would be living forever youthful on a beautiful earth even today.

[The Kingpin]

Spawn, your sig should be http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96587&perpage=25&pagenumber=68

[Abaddon]

Originally posted by Kessel Day
i'm not really understanding what you are saying here, abaddon.

when adam disobeyed God, he sinned. that is what "fall from grace" means. adam was perfect until he made himself imperfect. the word sin means "to fall short of God's requirements". it doesn't mean adam didn't have any moral perception before he sinned.

how can i say that? first, adam was an adult not a child. he was taught by God for the long period of time he was in the garden without eve. adam had adult responsibilities - to cultivate the garden and to name all the animals. he would not have given the animals just any name. he would have had to study them first. by study of those animals, he learned about their biology - how they lived, how they procreated and how they died.

adam knew the law about the tree as did his wife, eve. adam and eve both knew the punishment; they knew what death was. eve was fooled into thinking that she could disobey with impunity because she would be "like God". adam probably followed her decision, not because he was fooled too (1Tim2:14), but because he loved her more than God.

lastly, abaddon: your argument that God wanted a&e to sin, makes God responsible for all the diseases and death that has taken place on the earth.

this is in direct contradiction to the Bible which says that death was brought about by adam's disobedience.

Rom 5:12 says "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned --"

adam could not have perfect children when he himself was flawed. we all die because of adam's choice; otherwise we would be living forever youthful on a beautiful earth even today.

I stand by my argument.It was when A%E were booted out,that they truly learned to be independent.It was clear that God knew they would sin too.

Furthermore,according to the Bible God is responsible for those things.I'll explain in more detail when I'm not busy.:p

[Kessel Day]

Originally posted by Abaddon
I stand by my argument.It was when A%E were booted out,that they truly learned to be independent.It was clear that God knew they would sin too.

Furthermore,according to the Bible God is responsible for those things.I'll explain in more detail when I'm not busy.:p

it is true that after a&e left the garden, they were on their own. however, they were now subject to old age and death. cruel masters both.

would you mind (when you're not too busy :) ), showing me a scripture that shows that God knew they would sin?

as for as God being responsible for those things, the Bible says that He is a God of justice. (Deut 32:4) and that "He is a God of faithfulness with whom there is no injustice, righteous and upright is He".

wouldn't it be unjust and even cruel of a human parent to ask his child to do something (or refrain from doing something) all the while knowing that the child was unable to obey? and even worse, that the parent secretly wanted the child to disobey? and worse of all, that the parent administered a severe punishment for the disobedience?

God created us to be dependent on Him. it was satan that urged a&e to independent.

a question: if Jesus died to atone for our sins and pay the ransom in our behalf (a perfect man for a perfect man), how would it be just for God to ask Jesus to undergo torture and death, if as you state, God wanted our first parents to sin? wouldn't that be a little hypocritical of God?

[Abaddon]

You keep seeing it as a punishment,when really thats n

[Movies205]

Hello everyone what are we talking about so I may inject my fruitful yet controversial, at times witty, a opinion!:)

[Movies205]

I see we are doing a little comparing of OT to NT... Something to note the god in both bibles are radically different. OT God is vengeful and wrathful. NT god is kind and forgiving:o

[Abaddon]

Originally posted by Movies205
Hello everyone what are we talking about so I may inject my fruitful yet controversial, at times witty, a opinion!:)

You need to get over yourself.:rolleyes:

[Kessel Day]

Originally posted by Movies205
I see we are doing a little comparing of OT to NT... Something to note the god in both bibles are radically different. OT God is vengeful and wrathful. NT god is kind and forgiving:o

says you! :D

which God said the following?

"Do I take any delight at all in the death of someone wicked, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, and not in that he should turn back from his ways and actually keep living?" OT

"Let the wicked man leave his way and the harmful man his thoughts and let him return to Jehovah, who will have mercy upon him . . . and will forgive him in a large way." OT

"When you enemy falls, do not rejoice . . . that Jehovah may not see it and it be bad in His eyes and he certainly turn back His anger from against Him." OT

"it is righteousness on God's part to repay tribulation for those who make tribulation for you . . . at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire as he brings vengence upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news . . ." NT

"these very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction . . ." NT

"it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" NT

"for our God is a consuming fire." NT

"But on the day that Lot came out of Sodom it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all. The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed." NT

"You people must not affict any widow or fatherless boy. If you should affict him at all, then if he cries out to me at all, I shall unfailingly hear his outcry and my anger will indeed blaze (against you)." OT

"You must not yoke together an ass and a bull." (it would be a cruel to the donkey.) OT

"You must not reap the harvest of your land and you must not reap the edge of your field completely . . . for the afflicted one and the alien resident you should leave them." OT

"You must not hate your brother in your heart." OT

"You must not treat the lowly with partiality and you must not prefer the person of the great one. With justice you should judge your associate." OT


-----

God has not changed, movies. it is just when Jesus came to the earth, people could finally see what His Father was really like because Jesus reflected His Father's personality perfectly.

God is a God of Love, but it is in perfect balance with His other main attributes, justice, wisdom and power. He will not put up with hatred we have for one another on the earth forever.

[Kessel Day]

Originally posted by Abaddon
You keep seeing it as a punishment,when really thats n

disease, poverty, cruelty, slaughter of innocents, pollution of land and soul, and death of loved one?

but you are right i think in this. they are not punishments by God. they are the result of our parents' decision to be independent of God.

God knew these things would happen if a&e disobeyed Him. that is why He warned them first of what would result.

[Kessel Day]

Originally posted by Abaddon
You need to get over yourself.:rolleyes:

movies is just being his cheerful self, abaddon. personally, i like cheerful. :)

[Movies205]

Originally posted by Kessel Day
says you! :D

which God said the following?

"Do I take any delight at all in the death of someone wicked, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, and not in that he should turn back from his ways and actually keep living?" OT

"Let the wicked man leave his way and the harmful man his thoughts and let him return to Jehovah, who will have mercy upon him . . . and will forgive him in a large way." OT

"When you enemy falls, do not rejoice . . . that Jehovah may not see it and it be bad in His eyes and he certainly turn back His anger from against Him." OT

"it is righteousness on God's part to repay tribulation for those who make tribulation for you . . . at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire as he brings vengence upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news . . ." NT

"these very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction . . ." NT

"it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" NT

"for our God is a consuming fire." NT

"But on the day that Lot came out of Sodom it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all. The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed." NT

"You people must not affict any widow or fatherless boy. If you should affict him at all, then if he cries out to me at all, I shall unfailingly hear his outcry and my anger will indeed blaze (against you)." OT

"You must not yoke together an ass and a bull." (it would be a cruel to the donkey.) OT

"You must not reap the harvest of your land and you must not reap the edge of your field completely . . . for the afflicted one and the alien resident you should leave them." OT

"You must not hate your brother in your heart." OT

"You must not treat the lowly with partiality and you must not prefer the person of the great one. With justice you should judge your associate." OT


-----

God has not changed, movies. it is just when Jesus came to the earth, people could finally see what His Father was really like because Jesus reflected His Father's personality perfectly.

God is a God of Love, but it is in perfect balance with His other main attributes, justice, wisdom and power. He will not put up with hatred we have for one another on the earth forever.


The same god who made his people wander 40 years in the desert for not listening to him:o

[The Spawn]

You don't want to know what I believe.

[The Spawn]

I gave them to you within 1 hour.

[The Spawn]

http://www.usatt.org/news/2004_olympic_trials_procedures.shtml

http://www.usaweightlifting.org/04olympictrialsentryform.html

http://www.usatf.org/events/2004/OlympicTrials-RW/entry/qualifyingStandards.asp

http://www.runningusa.org/ldr/int_comp.html

[Kessel Day]

Originally posted by Movies205
The same god who made his people wander 40 years in the desert for not listening to him:o

it was not that they didn't listen to Him, movies.

this is the setting: the israelites have traveled across the desert after seeing the egyptian army (and their pharoah - the movies is wrong!!!) be drowned in the Red Sea. they have already seen many other miracles. they are poised to go into canaan to possess it but first they send in spies to scout it out.

10 of the spies give the report that the land is full of very large, warlike men so the israelites began to rebell and plan a return to egypt. they even planned to kill Moses & Aaron. (Num14:11)

so God said that since they did not trust Him, even after seeing all the wonderful things He had done on their behalf, they were not worthy of inheriting the land He promised to Abraham's children. those people who were 20 years and older, wandered 40 years through the wilderness until they all had died (except the two faithful spies, Joshua & Caleb, and of course, the Levites).

[Kessel Day]

Originally posted by The Spawn
You don't want to know what I believe.

i know we disagree on some things but i do value your thoughts.

[C. Lee]

Originally posted by Movies205
The same god who made his people wander 40 years in the desert for not listening to him:o
As Bugs Bunny said...."I knew I shoulda made that left turn at Albequrque".

[The Hero]

Originally posted by Bloody Mary
this will last a day HA-HA!:p

[The Kingpin]

Spawn, I bet you don't know who's breaking that sucka's ankles

http://i.myspace.com/87/47/487478/5825573_l.gif

[Abaddon]

Originally posted by The Spawn
You don't want to know what I believe.

I would love to know.:)

[The Kingpin]

I would also, but answer my question first :D

[Assassin32]

Are you saying that the Spawn movie is better than the new Batman and Spider-Man films?

[Captain Cat]

Spawn, i'd like to know about Samurai please. The basics. For instance the origin of, the history, stories about legendary Samurai, what it takes to be one, the Samurai code. **** like that, thanks.

[Kessel Day]

Originally posted by C. Lee
As Bugs Bunny said...."I knew I shoulda made that left turn at Albequrque".

:p

[The Spawn]

A long, long, long time ago...I realized that peoples beliefs were also their opinions...aka, not true. i said to myself one day, that opinions are waste of time and therefore should not exist. My beliefs are no longer opinions....they are fact.

[The Spawn]

Origins Of The Samurai


By 200 AD, rice cultivation had been known on the islands east of the Asian continent for 500 years. With agriculture had come ownership of land where previously, boundaries between small nomadic hunting groups had been indistinct. People came to live together in communities, sharing in the work of planting and harvesting, and in defense against others who would take their winter stores. With the possession of land had come war.

The growth of farming drew people away from hunting and away from hunting skills. Some were naturally better suited to fighting then others and so honed those skills, becoming specialists at fighting. Those who fought became warriors, and by virtue of their strength, became the leaders of their clans. The wars they fought resulted in larger clans overcoming and absorbing smaller ones. Japanese society of the third century was composed of many clans, capable and willing to wage war for advantage. It would not be very long before they became one society.

By 200 AD, the Chinese Han court had received envoys from as many as 30 clans from northern Kyushu through their offices on the Korean peninsula. The ancestors of the Japanese had much more reason to look west than to the northern wilderness since the west held much to attract them in both materials and technology. Korean iron and weapons were particularly desirable. Shortly after the fall of the Han in 220 AD, Kyushu clans, capable and willing to wage war for advantage, attacked.

Warriors of this era fought on foot with bows, stabbing swords, and spears. Armor was worn, but most warriors probably had only shields. Steel and bronze had come to the Japanese islands with rice and so they knew of and used these materials. The more advanced technology and the better materials, however, were still from the continent.

By 300 AD the religious, political, and military consolidation of independent clans culminated with the Yamato clan becoming dominant. Included in the consolidation were clans on northern Kyushu and southern Honshu. The Yamato were in power because of the support of many clans rather than the surrender of those clans. The Yamato culturally consolidated early Japanese society; administratively, many local clans remained relatively independent. Archeological excavations show that mound tombs constructed in this time were all very similar and yet widely distributed. They demonstrate the cultural unity of the people, the independence of distributed clans, and the measure of their power over the lower classes. Yamato invasions of the Korean peninsula were frequent, leading even to the establishment a land-hold. The tip of the peninsula, called Mimana, long under the influence of the islanders, was established as their own domain and base for raids in the fourth century. From this presence, the flow of culture and technology was assured.

War with the continentals was not always a matched fight, however. Shortly after 400 AD, the enemy demonstrated that they had learned to fight from horseback. Up until that time, horses, though available, had not been ridden in war by the Yamato. Shooting an arrow from horseback required two hands. Until the invention of stirrups in China in the first century, falling off one's horse was a much more likely event than successfully launching a home hitting arrow. With stirrups providing two-sided support and a saddle to brace one's knees, a warrior could stand, use his feet to guide the horse, shoot arrows, and swing a sword. With the additional speed offered by a mount, foot soldiers could be easily surprised and devastated by many fewer men. The Yamato participated in politics and culture on the Korean peninsula directly. Alliances were made and war waged. Even marriages were arranged between courts. The Yamato and Paikche found a common enemy in the Silla and so allied against them. Paikche and Yamato, as allies, exchanged knowledge and material. Scribes arrived in Yamato almost immediately after contact. Buddhism arrived in 538. Swordsmiths, armorers, and horses all made their way to Yamato. By 600, one third of the Yamato court was composed of foreign immigrants brought to Yamato for their advanced knowledge and skills. In time, the developed skills of the Yamato made their products so desirable that the exchange reversed, and weapons and horses were exported back to the Paekche to aid in the fighting.

Foreign wars were not all that concerned the Yamato, however. Unity in the Yamato court was not the rule. Prior to the 6th century, the Great Lord was the religious and political leader of the nation. (The Yamato ruler had not yet been attributed with divine authority.) The position was hereditary, but without rules for ascension. Each Great Lord kept consorts in great numbers and so it was not always apparent who would reign next. Since power was involved, outside clans often tried to gain influence by marrying daughters to princes in the hope that a son-in-law prince would become Great Lord. To that end, clans would support their sons-in-law by murdering rivals or by waging war on other clans. One clan warrior was so thorough in killing off competitors, that when his chosen prince died shortly after taking office, a wide search found that the only hereditary choice remaining was a prince who had been in hiding and who was patronized by a rival clan.

War on the Korean peninsula eventually led to the expulsion of the Yamato from Mimana in 562. During the continental wars before and after their expulsion, the Yamato, having become skilled as mounted archers, were often called upon to help their allies. The warriors sent to the continent rode horses which were small, perhaps 40" at the shoulders. Armor for the horses was excluded so that they would be quick. Arrows were the weapon of choice. Swords were used from horseback, but most likely only after arrows had been depleted. Armor was therefor designed primarily to repel arrows.

In 663, with support from the Tang dynasty in China, Silla overwhelmed Yamato and Paekche forces in a deafening defeat. The Chinese had brought new tactics to the battlefield for directing mass peasant armies armed with crossbows. With this defeat, Silla went on to unify the peninsula. Yamato, now reeling with the likelihood of invasion from abroad, withdrew to defend itself.

Just as the Yamato began organizing for defense, difficulties at court took precedence over defense. The Great Lord died and in a subsequent civil war, the next leader, Temmu, took power by the military defeat of his brother.

Temmu became the first "Heavenly Warrior Emperor" of Japan. From the experience of losing to the Chinese and from fears of invasion, Temmu established laws to control the military strength of the nation. Having taken the throne by force, he knew especially well that military power meant ruling power. A peasant conscript army was established, with weapons being the possessions of the government. Conscripted service for border guards was required of all clan warriors for periods of three years. Horsemen were to train continuously, peasants 10 out of 100 days. Skills to be practiced included swinging swords, stabbing with spears, firing crossbows, and catapulting stones. "In a government, military matters are the essential thing." stated Temmu.

Temmu also knew the value of diplomacy. Several missions were sent to China, carefully avoiding the Korean peninsula. It was during their first direct contacts with the Tang dynasty that the Yamato first began referring to their islands as the "sun source" or "Nippon". The Chinese pronounced the same characters as "Jihpen". It is this sound which Marco Polo brought back to Europe in the thirteenth century.

The Kanto plain in central Honshu was ideal for raising horses, and perhaps from hunting and military engagements with northern barbarians or "Emishi", the Kanto warriors had long been known as the fiercest of Japan. Eventually, because of their greater skill, border guards came to be Kanto plain warriors almost exclusively. Some of the first written documents available from Japanese history are poems written by warriors about service as border guards:

From today
Without regard for myself
I set out
A shield strong but humble
For our Sovereign Lord.

In time, however, the threat from the continent diminished and raids from the Emishi became a more pressing concern. In the eighth century, conscripts and Kanto mounted warriors were sent to the north to bring the tribes under court control.

The Emishi were fast horsemen, however, and fought a guerrilla style war. Conscript armies were not effective and were often overwhelmed. The wars eventually stretched the financial limits of the government, and with a population decline due to smallpox and crop failures, armies came to consist only of mounted archers. Crossbows for the peasant armies proved too expensive. Also due to expense and to the rusting failure of iron armor, the government turned to leather armor. The benefit of light weight was an added attraction.

By the end of the eighth century, the Japanese warrior fighting in the northern extents of Honshu essentially fit the historical model of the classical Japanese warrior. By this time, the government had come to depend on the men of the Kanto to such an extent that courtiers no longer personally took up arms. The term "samurai", meaning "those who serve" came into use (although with derogatory meaning when used by pretentious courtiers). Warriors continued to fight on horseback, with bow and arrows as their primary weapon, but also with a newly designed sword. The Emishi had been found to be fighting with curved swords. These seemed much better suited to slicing cuts inflicted from horseback, and so the Japanese tachi, which had previously been modeled on the continental sword, was revised for the same effect.

[The Spawn]

Brief History of the Samurai
courtesy of Mark McGee
Japan has a history that dates back thousands of years. Scientists believe the Japanese people descended from many groups that migrated to the islands from other parts of Asia, including China and Korea. As early as 4500 B.C., the Japanese islands were inhabited by fishermen, hunters and farmers. The early culture was known as "Jomon," which meant "cord pattern." That's because the people made pottery decorated with rope-like designs. Scientists believe a caucasian race called the "Ainu" were the first inhabitants of what is now Japan. The Ainu still exist today, mostly in the northernmost islands of Japan called "Hokkaido." The next major Japanese cultural changed occured about 200 B.C. The people were known as "Yayoi." The Yayoi were mostly farmers. Scientists believe the present-day Japanese closely resemble the Yayoi in appearance and language.

War played a central part in the history of Japan. Warring clans controlled much of the country. A chief headed each clan; made up of related families. The chiefs were the ancestors of Japan's imperial family. The wars were usually about "land." Only 20% of the land was fit for farming. The struggle for control of that land eventually gave rise to the Samurai.

One of the important dates in the history of the Japanese warring class is 660 B.C. That's when, according to legend, Jimmu Tenno became head of a confederation of warlike clans. Tenno was known as "The Divine Warrior." He led his people from Kyushu to the Kinki region and conquered the people there. Tenno settled in the area of Yamato. This eventually gave rise to the Yamato dynasty and state. The leaders of Yamato believed themselves to be of divine origin.

The Yamato clans conducted many military campaigns on the Asian mainland. The targets included Korea and China. These campaigns led to the importation of Korean and Chinese culture, technology and martial arts.

Legend says that Emperor Keiko was the first person with the title of "Shogun." The word meant "Barbarian-subduing General." Legend continues that Keiko had a son named "Prince Yamato." He was cunning, fearless, strong and a great martial artist. Many believe that Yamato was a role model for future Samurai.

Ancient Yayoi warriors developed weapons, armour and a code during the ensuing centuries that became the centerpiece for the Japanese Samurai. Early weapons included bows, arrows and swords. Armour included a helmet that protected head and neck, a breasplate that protected the chest, arm and shoulder protectors, and a belly wrap. Later armour included protection for the legs and thighs. Armour changed as the type of battles changed. A big change occured in the 5th century when horses were introduced to Japan. Another change occured in the 15th century because of the constancy of war and the introduction of guns into battle. The code developed from the Chinese concept of the virtues of warriors doing battle to the Samurai code of chivalry known as Kyuba no michi ("The Way of Horse and Bow") to the Bushido ("Way of the Warrior") code.

"Bushido" means "Way of the Warrior." It was at the heart of the beliefs and conduct of the Samurai. The philosophy of Bushido is "freedom from fear." It meant that the Samurai transcended his fear of death. That gave him the peace and power to serve his master faithfully and loyally and die well if necessary. "Duty" is a primary philosophy of the Samurai.

The Samurai rose out of the continuing battles for land among three main clans: the Minamoto, the Fujiwara and the Taira. The Samurai eventually became a class unto themselves between the 9th and 12th centuries A.D. They were called by two names: Samurai (knights-retainers) and Bushi (warriors). Some of them were related to the ruling class. Others were hired men. They gave complete loyalty to their Daimyo (feudal landowners) and received land and position in return. Each Daimyo used his Samurai to protect his land and to expand his power and rights to more land.

The Samurai became expert in fighting from horseback and on the ground. They practiced armed and un-armed combat. The early Samurai emphasized fighting with the bow and arrow. They used swords for close-in fighting and beheading their enemies. Battles with the Mongols in the late 13th century led to a change in the Samurai's fighting style. They began to use their sword more and also made more use of spears and naginata. The Samurai slowly changed from fighting on horseback to fighting on foot.

The Samurai wore two swords (daisho). One was long; the other short. The long sword (daito - katana) was more than 24 inches. The short sword (shoto - wakizashi) was between 12 and 24 inches. The Samurai often gave names to their swords and believed it was the "soul" of their warriorship. The oldest swords were straight and had their early design in Korea and China. The Samurai's desire for tougher, sharper swords for battle gave rise to the curved blade we still have today. The sword had its beginning as iron combined with carbon. The swordsmith used fire, water, anvil and hammer to shape the world's best swords. After forging the blade, the sword polisher did his work to prepare the blade for the "furniture" that surrounded it. Next, the sword tester took the new blade and cut through the bodies of corpses or condemned criminals. They started by cutting through the small bones of the body and moved up to the large bones. Test results were often recorded on the nakago (the metal piece attaching the sword blade to the handle).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Samurai Dates of Importance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

660 B.C. --- Legend says Jimmu Tenno became Japan's first emperor and set up the ruling Yamato State. Weapons and armour develop.

400's A.D. --- Horses introduced into Japanese fighting.

500's A.D. --- Buddhism arrived in Japan; becomes a powerful philosophy for rulers and warriors.

500's A.D. --- Soga clan dominated the Yamato court.

645 A.D. --- Taika Reforms began.

702 A.D. --- Taiho law codes established the Great Council of State.

710 A.D. --- Nara rule began with first permanent capital.

781 A.D. --- Emperor Kammu came to power and moved capital to Kyoto a few years later.

794 A.D. --- Heian period began.

858 A.D. --- Fujiwara family gained control of imperial court.

935 A.D. --- Taira Masakado revolted and proclaimed himself "The New Emperor." Other Samurai leaders exerted their influence across the land and changed the history of Japan.

1180-85 A.D. --- Minamoto Yoritomo takes up arms against the Taira clan in The Gempei War.

1192 A.D. --- Yoritomo became first permanent shogun of Japan and set up his Samurai government in Kamakura.

Late 1200's A.D. --- Mongols invade Japan. The Samurai defeat the Mongols after many years of fierce fighting. The Samurai developed a style of formation combat and depended more on the sword as a primary weapon in battle.

1318 A.D. --- Go-Daigo became the 96th Emperor of Japan. He attempted to overthrow the Hojo regents, but gave rise instead to a new dynasty of Shoguns, the Ashikaga family, who set up their government in the capital city of Kyoto.

1400'a A.D. --- Master swordsmen established schools to teach their style of ken-jutsu.

1467-77 A.D. --- The Onin War saw the decline of the Shogun's power and began the Sengoku Jidai ("The Age of the Country at War") which lasted 150 years.

1542 A.D. --- Portuguese guns were introduced into Japan.

1560 A.D. --- Oda Nobunaga began the process of unifying Japan. Toyotomi Hideyoshi continued the quest after Nobunaga's death.

1592 A.D. --- Hideyoshi invaded Korea on his way to invading China, but died in 1598 before succeeding.

1603 A.D. --- The Tokugawa family began ruling Japan. The regime lasted more than 200 years.

1605 A.D. --- Miyamoto Musashi, Japan's most famous Samurai, began his musha-shugyo (warrior pilgrimage). Musashi fought and won more than 60 sword fights before the age of 30. He founded the Individual School of Two Skies and taught for many years. At the age of 60, Musashi wrote Gorin No Sho ("The Book of Five Spheres"), the most famous writing about the Japanese Sword Arts. He also wrote "The 35 Articles on the Art of Swordsmanship."

1615 A.D. --- Tokugawa Ieyasu drew up the "Buke Sho Hatto" (Rules for Martial Families) before his death. It gave Samurai 13 guides to living as a warrior during peace time.

1630 A.D. --- Japan cut its ties with the outside world.

1854 A.D. --- Commodore Matthew Perry opened trade between the United States and Japan.

1867 A.D. --- Emperor Mutsuhito regained his traditional powers and took the name Meiji. It was the beginning of the Meiji Restoration. Meiji (Mutsuhito) set up his new capital city in Edo (Tokyo).

1868 A.D. --- Emperor Meiji introduced the "Five Articles Oath" which began the dismantling of the Samurai class.

1873 A.D. --- Emperor Meiji established an army based on conscription; an army open to anyone.

1876 A.D. --- Emperor Meiji declared a new law that ended the wearing of swords. The Samurai had lost their profession and their right to wear swords. Their position as a special class ended after almost 1,000 years.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Samurai Terms

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Batto-jutsu

A sword-drawing art that includes cutting rolled straw targets

Bo-jutsu

Staff fighting

Budo

Martial or Fighting Arts

Bushido

The Way of the Warrior

Chokuto

Straight sword used in Japan's early history

Daimyo

Feudal landowner

Daisho

Samurai's two swords (one long - katana, one short - wakizashi)

Edo Period

1600 - 1867 when Tokugawa government ruled Japan
Giri

Samurai's duty

Gunpai

War fan

Hakama

Divided skirt-pants Samurai wore

Heian Period

782 - 1184 when Japan's capital was located in Kyoto

Iai-jutsu

Art of Drawing the Sword

Kamakura Period

1185 - 1332 when the capital of Japan was in Kamakura. Known as the "golden age" of the Japanese sword.

Kampaku

Regent

Katana

Long sword

Ken

Sword - refers specifically to an ancient, two-edge sword made before the ninth century

Ken-jutsu

Art of the Sword

Koto

Swords made before the Edo Period

Kyo-jutsu

Bow and arror fighting

Kyuba no michi

The Way of the Horse and Bow

Kyu-jutsu

Japanese archery

Mei

Name of a sword

Momoyana Period

1573 - 1599 when Samurai began wearing daisho. Also beginning of the Shinto (new sword) period.

Mon

Family crest worn on montsuki

Montsuki

Kimono top Japanese wore at formal occasions

Muramasa

Sword maker

Muromachi Period

1392 - 1572 when constant civil wars greatly increased the production of swords.

Musha-shugyo

Warrior pilgrimage

Naginata

Long pole with curved blade on one end

Naginata-jutsu

Way of the Naginata

Nambokucho Period

1333 - 1391 when two emperors were vying for power in Japan

No-dachi

Long sword

Ronin

Master-less Samurai

Ryu

Particular school or style of martial arts

Samurai

Member of the warrior class

Sensei

Teacher

Seppuku

Ritual suicide

Shin Shinto

"New New Sword" - any sword made after Meiji Restoration (1870)

Shinto

"New Sword" - any sword made between 1596 and 1870

Shogun

Barbarian subduing General (war lord)

So-jutsu

Spear fighting

Sohei

Warrior monks

Tachi

Long, deeply curved sword that mounted Samurai used in ancient Japan

Uchigatana

"Inside sword" - a term for the longer of two swords Samurai wore

Wakizashi

Short sword

Zanshin

Samurai's sensing danger

[The Spawn]

http://japanese.about.com/bl50kanji_bushidou.htm

[The Spawn]

You honestly think I'd get shaken and stirred like that Kingpin? You must still think white man can't jump.

[The Spawn]

Yes 32, thats what my sig is saying.

[The Kingpin]

Originally posted by The Spawn
You honestly think I'd get shaken and stirred like that Kingpin? You must still think white man can't jump. I'm askin you who shook the guy, not who got shook. Besides, the guy is black :o

P.S. I know who it is, I'm just seeing if yo street skills are up to snuff

[Abaddon]

Teach me about exorcisms.

[Assassin32]

I'll be able to tell if half your sig is right on Wednesday. The other half next year.

And, tell me all about Azrael.

[The Spawn]

I know my sig is right. I already saw Spiderman 2, Batman Begins I've yet to see before the masses.

[The Spawn]

http://www.songofazrael.org/
http://www.westgatenecromantic.com/

[The Spawn]

http://womanthouartgod.com/howto_exorcisms.htm

[The Spawn]

That gif is no clear enoguh, even when I blow it up. I'll have to repixelize it. Should take me an hour.

[The Kingpin]

Only one man can pull of moves like that :D

[Abaddon]

Teach me about...myself.

[The Spawn]

I could pull off moves like that.

[The Spawn]

Username: Abaddon
Real Name: Access Non Redux Profile
Gender: Male
Ht: Access Non Redux Profile
Wt: Access Non Redux Profile
DOB: Access Non Redux Profile
DOD: Access Non Redux Profile
Location: Access Non Redux Profile
Bio: Access Non Redux Profile
Weaknesses: Goes in head first and fails to look before he leaps. Impatient and far too sarcastic. When he does try, he tries a bit too hard.
Strengths: When he is serious, he can be one of the few intellectual types here at my domain.
Sanction: Access Non Redux Profile

[Abaddon]

LOL!:D



I disagree about my weaknesses though.

[Assassin32]

Spider-man 2 owns Spawn. Change your sig.

[The Spawn]

You can't disagree. Unless you want me to add denial to you list of weaknesses.

I've already done that to Assassin with his above comment.

[The Kingpin]

Originally posted by The Spawn
I could pull off moves like that.

Not off me :D

(By the way, it's Hot Sauce)

[The Spawn]

I'd own you in basketball.

[The Kingpin]

Did you play in high school?

[The Spawn]

Nope. I can beat anyone at anything. That is what I was bred to do.

[The Kingpin]

Oh yeah? What about one of those AIM games, like Polar Bowler?

[The Spawn]

I've never played it. But I know the answer to your question.

[The Kingpin]

I could get more money than you in a night of Texas Holdem in Vegas

[The Spawn]

And I could get more money than you assassinating infamous individuals. At current, I get $400 for each kill. Double if its with an MP5.

[The Kingpin]

and I could beat you in a drag race

[The Spawn]

With real cars? No way. I've got 13 cars in my garage. And thats just my house in Florida. I would let you pick the car to lose to.

[The Kingpin]

On foot

[The Spawn]

I can run 15 mph.

[The Spawn]

By the end of the summer, it will be 20.

[The Kingpin]

I've never measured myself in MPH. How fast do you run 40 yards in?

[The Spawn]

A little under 4 minutes.

[The Kingpin]

That's 10 minutes a yard...

[Bloody Vixen]

So, what'll happen if we eat too much lemons? Aside from stomachaches?

[The Spawn]

http://www.laughinghara.com/nutrition.htm

[The Spawn]

1 minute per yard.

[The Kingpin]

Oh, whoops, heh. But that's still slow. I run it in 4.6 seconds.

[The Spawn]

I know you do. Its In your profile. I took your time and multiplied by 52.173913 to get mines. That isn't my real time.

[The Kingpin]

Why would you do that? :confused:

[The Spawn]

To give you hope.

[The Kingpin]

Ah, but I already have enough hope. Now, what's your real time?

[The Spawn]

40 yds = 54 seconds

[The Kingpin]

I mean running, not walking.

[The Spawn]

Funny, funny man.

[The Kingpin]

A lineman on my team runs it in 6 seconds. That's a big, out of shape, shorts go to his crotch when he runs, fat man.

[Assassin32]

I'm adding blind to your list of weaknesses.

[Abaddon]

Originally posted by The Spawn
You can't disagree. Unless you want me to add denial to you list of weaknesses.

I've already done that to Assassin with his above comment.


:rolleyes:


Right,because you know all.

[Abaddon]

Originally posted by The Spawn
A long, long, long time ago...I realized that peoples beliefs were also their opinions...aka, not true. i said to myself one day, that opinions are waste of time and therefore should not exist. My beliefs are no longer opinions....they are fact.


Interesting.......yet foolish.

[Assassin32]

It sounded cool, though.:up:

[X]

Yeah. It's kinda sad, he has to be "in character" on a message board. Even in the comics forums. He never did reply to what I said to him. Ah well. :o

[Jaguar God]

Hey Spawny, how's the crime-fighting gig going? Are you capturing bad guys or just killing 'em punisher-style?

[Cobra Kai]

Spawn = my bytch in waiting.

I'd like to take this moment to thank my mom.

[Assassin32]

Originally posted by Jaguar God
Hey Spawny, how's the crime-fighting gig going? Are you capturing bad guys or just killing 'em punisher-style?

Who are all the characters in your avatar?

[C. Lee]

The Phantom, the Question, the Spirit, Sable, and GrimJack are some of his characters.

[Assassin32]

Thank you. I knew the Phantom, and should have been able to recognize the Question and the Spirit.....but I didn't. Kick-ass avatar Jaguar God.

[Abaddon]

[
Username: The Spawn
Real Name: Access Non Redux Profile
Gender: Male
Ht: Access Non Redux Profile
Wt: Access Non Redux Profile
DOB: Access Non Redux Profile
DOD: Access Non Redux Profile
Location: Access Non Redux Profile
Bio: Access Non Redux Profile
Weaknesses: Thinks "Spawn" was a great movie(:rolleyes: );tries too hard to confuse people and ends up confusing himself;doesn't like to break out of this character he's assumed;thinks too highly of himself;tries to reveal as little as possible about anything concerning himself which makes me think he has something to hide.
Strengths: When he is serious, he can be one of the few intellectual types.He also pays attention to detail.
Sanction: Access Non Redux Profile

[The Kingpin]

Username: C.Lee
Real Name: Calvin Lee
Gender: Male
Ht: Access Non Redux Profile
Wt: Access Non Redux Profile
DOB: Access June 25, 1957
DOD: Access Non Redux Profile
Location: Georgetown, Kentucky
Bio: Access Non Redux Profile
Weaknesses: Likes to look at other women, his wife might get angry *if he touched one.
Strengths: Intellecutal;Master Poet;Knows how to get somebody on his side.
Sanction: Access Non Redux Profile

[Assassin32]

Originally posted by The Kingpin
Weaknesses: Likes to look at other women, his wife might get angry.

:D :up:

[Assassin32]

Spawn, what's machina?

[C. Lee]

Originally posted by The Kingpin
Username: C.Lee
Real Name: Calvin Lee
Gender: Male
Ht: Access Non Redux Profile
Wt: Access Non Redux Profile
DOB: Access June 25, 1957
DOD: Access Non Redux Profile
Location: Georgetown, Kentucky
Bio: Access Non Redux Profile
Weaknesses: Likes to look at other women, his wife might get angry.
Strengths: Intellecutal;Master Poet;Knows how to get somebody on his side.
Sanction: Access Non Redux Profile
What's that all about King?:confused:

[Assassin32]

I don't remember what Spawn calls it, but he's got one for everybody.

[C. Lee]

Originally posted by Assassin32
I don't remember what Spawn calls it, but he's got one for everybody. Yeah, I know Spawn was doing it....but what's Kingpin doing....is he writing his own, or is he saying he has Spawn's?

[Abaddon]

kingpin is spawn

[C. Lee]

Originally posted by Abaddon
kingpin is spawn
You sh tting me?

[Assassin32]

Kingpin just made one up for you.

[C. Lee]

Originally posted by Assassin32
Kingpin just made one up for you.
Oh....OK.

Thanks.

[The Kingpin]

What the hell? I'm not Spawn...

I was just bored, and made one up. I wanted to try it. Spawn probably has a better one for you.

[C. Lee]

Originally posted by The Kingpin
What the hell? I'm not Spawn...

I was just bored, and made one up. I wanted to try it. Spawn probably has a better one for you.
You might want to change one thing then....my wife doesn't get mad if I look at other women....but if I touched one she would kill me.:D

[Assassin32]

You've got a good wife, Lee.:up:

[Jaguar God]

Originally posted by Assassin32
Who are all the characters in your avatar? E-Man, Nexus, Mr. Monster and Black Terror are there too. I forget who the other dude is.

[The Kingpin]

Spawn, what age did you start training?

[The Spawn]

We all play characters on a message board...mines is just so beyond reason, simple people doubt it. And what did I not reply to in the other forum?

[The Spawn]

Cobra Kai:


You can feel as though I'm your ***** in waiting, but 80% of the Community is my ***** now. Never did like lay away.

The Kingpin:

Against my will: 5

When I agreed: 16

Jaguar God:

Since my arrival to this small town, crimes dropped 60%. I put up the cape and cowl back in May when I decided I had amde a significant difference.

Abaddon:

Your protocol of me was almost dead on. You confuse weakness with strength and vice versa.

[The Kingpin]

What forms of martial arts did you train with?

[Abaddon]

Spawn: Its all a matter of perspective.



Originally posted by C. Lee
You sh tting me?

I thought you didn't approve of foul language.:mad: ;) :o

[C. Lee]

Originally posted by Abaddon
Spawn: Its all a matter of perspective.





I thought you didn't approve of foul language.:mad: ;) :o
I don't....but hit me with a hammer (or say that Kingpin is Spawn) and I yell......I am human, I just don't use it for every other word like some on here.

[Abaddon]

whatever.