View Full Version : Welcome Class, to Room 666...Again

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The Spawn
09-07-2004, 02:41 PM
Its possible.

The Spawn
09-10-2004, 11:16 AM
Zombies (http://jamaica.u.arizona.edu/~chalmers/zombies.html)

The Kingpin
09-11-2004, 09:29 AM
Where can I learn Jeet Kune Do?

09-11-2004, 04:59 PM
How many Galaxys are there? That we know of?

The Spawn
09-12-2004, 08:20 AM
In a school.

The Spawn
09-12-2004, 08:21 AM
Dear Earl,
How many galaxies are there?
Vanessa, Age 10

Dear Vanessa,
Before I answer this question, I want to define the difference between a galaxy and a universe. Galaxies are huge clusters of stars, gas, and dust. Our galaxy is known as the Milky Way, and contains up to 100 billion stars! The universe, however, is everything in the known world. But here's the catch--we don't know the limits of the universe. It could conceivably go on forever. In our Space category, I found a great site called NASA Kids. A high-energy astronomer at NASA estimates that there are at least 80 to 120 billion galaxies in the visible universe. They get this number by counting the galaxies in a small area of the sky, then scaling it up to see how many that would equal in the whole sky! There are probably many more out there, but we can't see them yet.


The Kingpin
09-12-2004, 11:22 AM
In a school.

09-12-2004, 03:55 PM
Could there be planets in the galaxies we can't see yet? And why can't we see them yet? Are our galaxy-finding machine things not advanced or powerful enough in this day and age?

The Kingpin
09-12-2004, 08:22 PM
No, they're invisible.

09-12-2004, 11:29 PM
Stop being silly!:mad:

The Spawn
09-13-2004, 08:33 AM
No, he's right.

09-13-2004, 09:02 AM
yep not enough light hitting them for them to be visable at this distance.

The Spawn
09-13-2004, 11:50 AM

09-14-2004, 12:53 AM
Spawn, I bought a McFarlane Tim Brown action figure at some convention. It pwns.:up:

The Spawn
09-14-2004, 07:10 AM
Anything with 'McFarlane' in front of it always does.

09-14-2004, 11:52 AM
Not always, but usually.

When will movement of the continents be noticeable on our maps?

The Spawn
09-14-2004, 11:59 AM
When we have snow fights in August.

The Kingpin
09-14-2004, 06:13 PM
Spawn, what's the martial art called that they train you without a specific stance....they train you to be able to fight while sitting down or standing straight?

09-14-2004, 10:44 PM
Why are you always searching for opposition?

The Spawn
09-15-2004, 07:14 AM
Because, I am so very bored with this playground known as earth and its lack of intelligent prowess.

An art with no stance...

The Kingpin
09-19-2004, 10:43 AM
If you're truly what you say you are, I want you to hack my cell-phone. Make it say "Spawn" when it turns on. The number is (***)***-****

The Spawn
09-21-2004, 09:54 AM
Vocalize the term 'spawn'?

09-21-2004, 11:49 AM
Do I really need Algebra?

The Spawn
09-21-2004, 02:16 PM
Any subject you're forced to take in school is necessity.

The Kingpin
09-21-2004, 06:48 PM
Make the text appear in the Welcome Screen.

09-21-2004, 11:16 PM
I'm still not sure how the rankings in a police department work. There's Commissioner, Lieutenant, Sergeant, Detective.....what else?

The Spawn
09-22-2004, 11:18 AM
WTF are you talking about Kingpin?

I gave you a site....I also stated that your question is quite broad.

I'm never leaving The Hype....just like the universe, I shall be here from the beginning, till the end.

09-22-2004, 12:15 PM
As of 2004, how far in to space has man traveled? And have we ever penetrated the surface of a planet other than Earth?

The Spawn
09-23-2004, 11:11 AM
Man has been going around in circles. He just hasn't realized it yet.

09-23-2004, 11:53 AM
So, is there a number in miles of how far we've traveled?

The Spawn
09-23-2004, 11:59 AM

The Kingpin
09-23-2004, 12:53 PM
We should start an underground SHH brotherhood.

09-23-2004, 06:43 PM
So, for all we know, there could be life a mile under the surface of Jupiter?

And, I don't need Algebra.

09-23-2004, 06:56 PM
teach me about evil.

The Spawn
09-24-2004, 07:12 AM
You need Alegebra, trust me. No such thing as useless knowledge.

The Brotherhood shall start in all good time.

Evil is all around you....just by observing it, you can learn from it.

09-24-2004, 06:34 PM
You suck.:(

The Kingpin
09-24-2004, 06:55 PM
Please Assassin, if you can't take Algebra, you're in trouble.

The Kingpin
09-24-2004, 08:01 PM
Total Posts: 2,045
User Name Posts
The Spawn 763
Assassin32 378
X-Chick03 181
The Kingpin 145
C. Lee 144
Al Frocks 54
Abaddon 49
Max Shrek 29
E. Bison 28
MidKnight 20
kritic 16
Alf 15
Kessel Day 15
JC Denton 14
ph27home 13
The Avatar 13
Spidey_Freak 13
Gobastia 12
Jaguar God 11
Bloody Vixen 11
Captain Cat 11
The Lizard 10
The Sperminator 10
Zarathi 8
Danger Mouse 6
Sgt. Homestar 5
doc ock rules! 4
Bathrat 4
hippie_hunter 3
Mr.Anderson 3
Pirateking 3
The Hero 3
Movies205 3
Démon 3
Istari Wizard 2
Spider-Fett 2
Speedin Bullet 2
Scott's Girl 2
spidey_hulk_fan 2
Nosferatu 2
Brodie Bruce 2
bojangles 2
Apocalypse 1
Predaknight 1
jollyjohnny 1
Corinthian 1
The Green Goblin 1
Threepwood 1
Count Tukula 1
Dr. Killjoy 1
Hicks 1
suicideking15 1
comicgirl 1
Computron2005 1
Miss Kitty 1
the overtaker 1
Dr Jones 1
Ryu 1
I.M. Fletcher 1
Spider-Gamer 1
i_live!!! 1
GunBlade 1
Mr. X 1
TheReaper 1
spiderrasmon 1
Cobra Kai 1

Yet look how many posts are in the thread.

09-24-2004, 09:29 PM
Algebra is ass!:mad: And, I didn't say it was useless, just not necessary. For me, at least.

"So, for all we know, there could be life a mile under the surface of Jupiter?" Right?

09-24-2004, 10:51 PM
algebra is better than trig.

The Spawn
09-25-2004, 05:37 AM
I can't name a single subject in school you don't need.

09-25-2004, 04:04 PM
I can: Algebra.:up:

Now, what about life a mile under Jupiter?

The Spawn
09-26-2004, 11:27 AM
If you don't need algebra, you don't need to live.

09-26-2004, 10:03 PM
You need to know how to add, subtract, divide, and multiply.

Now, what about life a mile under Jupiter?

09-27-2004, 04:59 AM
all you need to know is how to add everything else it a sub division of adding.
knowing the right numbers to add and in which order is the tricky part.

09-27-2004, 04:53 PM
the beat of the universe is 452

The Kingpin
09-27-2004, 07:34 PM
I can go without a number of subjects in school, but the general population needs all of them, of course.

09-28-2004, 12:02 AM
How often does it rain in Las Vegas?

The Spawn
09-28-2004, 11:41 AM
Of course you can LIVE with out them, but not a life worth living.

09-28-2004, 02:47 PM
Let's pretend I never brought goddamned Algebra up. What about Jupiter and Vegas, Spawn?

The Spawn
09-28-2004, 05:35 PM
What if everyone just dropped whatever discussion they were having previously?

The Spawn
09-28-2004, 06:23 PM

09-28-2004, 11:49 PM
They can talk about whatever the hell they want; I was talking to you. You're the teacher, but I'm not being taught.

The Spawn
09-29-2004, 11:20 AM
I'm not being listened to.

09-29-2004, 02:51 PM
Just because we're not responding, it doesn't mean we can't hear you. A life worth living depends on who's living it.

Now we talk about Jupiter and Vegas.

The Spawn
09-29-2004, 04:06 PM
When someone decides to jump from one topic to another, without any recourse as to what went on previously, they aren't listening. They are reading, but not listening.

Alissa Jones
09-29-2004, 04:31 PM
Spawn, you are a silly *****.

The Kingpin
09-29-2004, 05:28 PM
. .

The Kingpin
09-29-2004, 09:57 PM
Why are the Ninja Turtles all named after Renaissance artists?

09-29-2004, 11:55 PM
I think it's just a gimmick, Kingpin.

Toven is correct. Spawn, why does me changing the subject matter so much?

09-30-2004, 02:18 AM
oh no the spawn wont tell you about jupiter and vegas. i think this means that the end of the world is coming. i'll do some algebra to figure out when exactly.

The Spawn
09-30-2004, 07:18 AM
If someone blows your house up, are you gonna change the subject?

The Spawn
09-30-2004, 07:18 AM
Interview - Peter Laird

The world's biggest and gooiest turtles are back with a brand new series of action-packed adventures. So, get ready for plenty of green ooze and martial arts mayhem with the return of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Kidzworld got the scoop on the new tales of Donatello, Leonardo, Michaelangelo and Raphael from one of the comic's creators, Peter Laird.
KW: For those people out there who've had their head tucked inside their shell all their lives, tell us a bit about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Peter: They're four turtles, like the ones you'd buy in a pet store, who mutated into giant turtles after coming into contact with a strange substance. They were found in the sewer by a rat, who was also affected by the substance. He raised them and trained them to be ninjas. I know that sounds ludicrous but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

KW: That's really weird. How did you come up with an idea like that?
Peter: My writing partner, Kevin Eastman, and I used to watch all kinds of stupid movies, stupid television shows and read stupid comics. We were sitting around one night when Kevin drew this turtle with a mask and nunchucks strapped to its wrist. It was the silliest and goofiest thing I'd ever seen. I drew my own version of the turtle and we ended up with four sketches. We wondered what we should call them and we eventually came up with the name Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. We knew we wanted to turn it into a comic, so we came up with the story later.

KW: When did you first become interested in comics?
Peter: I've always been interested in comics. I remember, as a young kid, reading comics like Casper the Friendly Ghost and Little Dot. I later got into Superman, Batman and especially Green Lantern. There was this great used bookstore near my house where you could buy comics for five cents a piece. That's where I got introduced to Marvel Comics and stuff like The Incredible Hulk, The Fantastic Four and other stuff by Jack Kirby. Kirby became a huge influence for me. I eventually got to the point where I decided, I've got to do this. I've got to become a comic book artist.

KW: What's the deal with the Turtles being named after great artists?
Peter: It's really kind of stupid. We had this story about how the turtles were being trained by this rat who had come from Japan and was a ninja master. We thought about giving the turtles Japanese names but we couldn't think of authentic-sounding Japanese names. So, we decided why not name them after Renaissance artists? We picked the artists we were most familiar with and went with it.

The Kingpin
09-30-2004, 08:49 AM
What a strange show.

The Spawn
09-30-2004, 02:03 PM
Anything with talking turtles usually is.

09-30-2004, 02:59 PM
No, if someone blows my house up, I'm not going to change the subject.

Yes, if we talked about Algebra and I decided I wanted to ask a question about Jupiter and Vegas, I'd do that.

The Spawn
09-30-2004, 03:15 PM
Blow up someones house?

10-01-2004, 11:23 AM

The Spawn
10-01-2004, 11:44 AM
Do you live by the words in your sig?

10-01-2004, 02:57 PM
Yes. I don't swing swords all that often, though. If I swing something in war it's usually my fists.

The Spawn
10-01-2004, 03:37 PM
Why didn't you change the subject?

10-01-2004, 07:34 PM
Because you asked me a question, I assumed you wanted it answered. I didn't even want change the Algebra topic, I just wanted you to answer my questions like you do everyday.

The Spawn
10-04-2004, 10:51 AM
You shouldn't get use to a lot of things.

10-04-2004, 11:05 AM
Nice sig.

The Spawn
10-04-2004, 11:33 AM
Now that's how you change a subject.

The Kingpin
10-04-2004, 07:16 PM
I've found a Bujinkan dojo in my area. I e-mailed the Soke/Godan and he told me to contact him after Sept. 7 about going to the dojo, and seeing if I want to do it (which I obviously want to). I e-mailed him on Sept. 8, and he hasn't e-mailed me back yet. Should I try e-mailing him back again, or just go to the Dojo?

10-04-2004, 09:06 PM
How often does it rain in Las Vegas?

The Spawn
10-06-2004, 09:42 AM
Check the dojo and see if its still in business.

Not often.

10-06-2004, 11:22 AM
In which months?

The Spawn
10-06-2004, 11:41 AM

The Kingpin
10-06-2004, 07:33 PM
Check the dojo and see if its still in business.

Unless it was damaged by a hurricane, why would it go out of business in the time span of a month?

10-07-2004, 01:42 AM
Could there be life under the surface of other planets?

The Spawn
10-07-2004, 10:50 AM
Because it was a McDojo.

There's life under our Earth's surface. Worms, moles, ants, etc. why not any other planet?

10-08-2004, 01:13 AM
How do I become a fighter pilot?

The Spawn
10-08-2004, 07:18 AM

10-08-2004, 08:22 AM
hmm x-chick03 wasn't back long.

The Spawn
10-08-2004, 10:21 AM
Long enough for her to have a higher post count than me.

10-08-2004, 11:29 AM
but she always did didn't she

10-08-2004, 11:29 AM
ha ha if i had 10000 more posts i'd still have less than both of you.

The Spawn
10-08-2004, 11:42 AM
Not always. I joined, under this name, a while ago and tons of people have at least 1,000 more posts than me who joined years after me. I will get back to previous position mind you.

10-09-2004, 12:22 AM
Is McFarlane Toys going to make Sky Captain action figures?

The Spawn
10-10-2004, 12:10 PM

The Kingpin
10-10-2004, 12:13 PM
Spawn, do you play Halo?

10-10-2004, 03:30 PM

Do you have any information on what the FBI and CIA handle and how they work?

The Spawn
10-10-2004, 09:57 PM
I played Halo when the kids had video game club in my class.

The Spawn
10-10-2004, 09:58 PM
The CIA is an independent agency of the United States government responsible for collecting and coordinating intelligence and counterintelligence activities abroad in the national interest; headed by the Director of Central Intelligence under the supervision of the President and National Security Council. The FBI is an agency of the Justice Department responsible for domestic law enforcement.

The Kingpin
10-11-2004, 05:29 PM
I played Halo when the kids had video game club in my class.

So, you're an elementary/middle school teacher? Impressive.

10-11-2004, 07:35 PM
What's your opinion on the death penalty?

The Spawn
10-12-2004, 07:18 AM
High School.

Death penalty? You must be able to create, before you can destroy.

10-12-2004, 11:23 AM
Are you ever going to have kids?

Boy Wonder '04
10-12-2004, 11:26 AM
Never posted in this thread... so what do you guys chat about. I've just finished reading a book calld 'global freemasonry' by Harun Yahya... an amazing read! The masons unveiled and refuted! I hate them! Anyone read it or know about the knights templers/freemason/ancient egyptian link?

The Kingpin
10-12-2004, 05:10 PM
Who doesn't? It's an interesting conspiracy, but you forgot the Illuminati.

The Spawn
10-13-2004, 08:22 AM
No kids.

We discuss anything abnormal.

10-13-2004, 11:29 PM
Then who's going to carry on your legacy?

And, since it's a possibility that Teflon grafts will give soldiers bulletproof skin someday, how will doctors go about that procedure?

The Spawn
10-14-2004, 07:14 AM
I'll carry on my own legacy.

They will most likely use lasers.

10-14-2004, 02:07 PM
You can't live forever, so your legacy will eventually die. Knock somebody up.:up:

10-14-2004, 02:09 PM
Will the Teflon grafts make your skin look or feel weird, or will you not be able to notice the difference?

The Spawn
10-15-2004, 07:11 AM
It'll be noticable. And may lead to death.

10-16-2004, 01:13 AM
How will it be noticeable? And how will it kill you?

The Spawn
10-16-2004, 10:00 AM
How can it not? Doing things to the human body has never gone without consequence.

The Kingpin
10-17-2004, 06:55 PM
It's called an apprentice, Assassin...everybody has one.

10-18-2004, 12:29 AM
That's very true, but it still doesn't mean that it'll always be that way.

When can I expect Sky Captain figures to hit stores?

The Spawn
10-19-2004, 07:14 AM
I can't say very soon.

10-19-2004, 12:12 PM
If robots started rampaging the city, who would handle that?

C. Lee
10-19-2004, 12:18 PM
If robots started rampaging the city, who would handle that?
Magnus: Robot Hunter

10-19-2004, 09:19 PM
C. Lee, don't be ridiculous. Magnus: Robot Hunter is not real.:rolleyes: ;)

The Spawn
10-20-2004, 07:19 AM
They'd use robots.

10-20-2004, 11:46 PM
Assuming that the good guys didn't have robots to fight the bad guys' robots, then what?

The Spawn
10-21-2004, 07:11 AM
Then they'd use androids.

C. Lee
10-21-2004, 08:26 AM
Which are better than hemorhoids.

10-21-2004, 09:08 PM
What's the definition of the word "android"?

10-22-2004, 02:29 AM
human appearing robot.

The Spawn
10-22-2004, 08:35 AM

10-22-2004, 03:14 PM
So, then it's still a robot. What if the good guys don't have robots?

The Spawn
10-22-2004, 11:12 PM
Where'd the robots come from?

10-23-2004, 01:18 AM
Some crazy bastard made them, but they don't know who. So, would the local police handle them? Or the FBI, U.S. military, S.H.I.E.L.D.?

C. Lee
10-23-2004, 01:25 AM
So, then it's still a robot. What if the good guys don't have robots?
May I introduce the P.E.M.P. 3000.....what every future Police Robot Riot Squad should never leave home without.

3000 foot effective radius (for limited damage to non rioting toasters)

The Spawn
10-23-2004, 10:47 AM
They'd handle they situation like they did with Juggernaut in X Men Evolution.

10-23-2004, 09:35 PM
(sorry if this has already been explained)

Tell us about the WTC UFO video of 2000.

The Spawn
10-25-2004, 07:16 AM

10-27-2004, 12:39 AM
I only watched most of the first season in X-Men: Evolution.

The Kingpin
10-27-2004, 06:11 AM
(sorry if this has already been explained)

Tell us about the WTC UFO video of 2000.

It was a commercial.

The Spawn
10-27-2004, 07:08 AM
Its cancelled now anyway.

10-29-2004, 12:13 AM
The U.S. Government killed JFK, didn't they?

C. Lee
10-29-2004, 12:36 AM
Depends on what movie you watch.

10-29-2004, 12:46 AM
So, if Oliver Stone made it, yes?

C. Lee
10-29-2004, 12:57 AM
So, if Oliver Stone made it, yes?

If Quenton Tarintino made it........Zed's grandfather did it for revenge because of that little "I've been cooped up on a PT boat toooooo long." incident during WWII.

The Spawn
10-29-2004, 07:09 AM

10-30-2004, 03:52 PM
Comment on JFK, Spawn.:up:

The Kingpin
10-30-2004, 04:04 PM
JFK was killed by alien ninjas from Saturn.

With guns

10-30-2004, 04:07 PM
hmmm talk of the occult,conspiracies,the undead and paranormal....i think i might like it here.

even tho i have no idea where the topic has gone to nowhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/dragonlex/smilies/cockeyed.png

The Kingpin
10-30-2004, 04:25 PM
The JFK killing could be considered a conspiracy.

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 04:33 PM
JFK was a tool betrayed by his craftsmen.

Cloud Strife
10-30-2004, 04:38 PM
JFK was a tool betrayed by his craftsmen.
It's true ,mysteriously true....

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 04:40 PM
The Beast of Gévaudan


One of the most perplexing cryptozoological mysteries of all time, the Beast of Gévaudan was a cow-sized, wolf-like monster which terrorized the district of Gévaudan (Lozère), France, from 1764 until 1767.

This tiny province, in the Margeride Mountains of south-central France, first became aware of the Beast in June, 1764. That month, a young woman was attacked by a large, wolf-like monster in the Forêt de Merçoire near Langogne. She was one of the few people who survived an encounter with la Bête, a creature which was, peculiarly, referred to in the feminine.

In October of that year, two hunters came across the Beast and shot at it from close range. The Beast was hit a total of four times, but it seemed relatively untouched. A Capt. Duhamel, who commanded nearly 60 soldiers, began his own hunt for La Bête, and on several occasions wounded it--but it was still not killed.

In 1765, King Louis XV himself sent an experienced wolf-hunter named Denneval to Gévaudan to kill the Beast. Before Denneval himself managed to track down the Beast, a man named de la Chaumette saw the Beast near his home, near St.-Chely. He and his two brothers went out to a pasture in hopes of killing the Beast. They shot it twice, but it still didn't die.

In June, 1765, Denneval gave up his hunt. The previous month, King Louis sent out his chief gun-carrier, Antoine de Beauterne. On September 21, he launched a hunt in the Béal Ravine, near Pommier. He shot what he believed was the Beast. It was an extremely large wolf, 6 feet long. De Beauterne's kill was preserved up until this century in the Museum of Natural History in Paris.

But the killings still continued. In the summer of 1767, hundreds of peasants made pilgrimages to Notre-Dame de Beaulieu Cathedral near Mount Chauvet to pray for deliverance from the creature, which was widely believed to be either punishment sent by God, or possibly a loup-garou (werewolf). One of the peasants who went to the cathedral was a hermit named Jean Chastel. He had his rifle and three bullets blessed.

On June 19, 1767, an area noble organized a huge hunt, with more than 300 participants. Chastel, at the Sogne d'Aubert, waited for the Beast to appear, praying all the while. When it appeared, he shot it. Finally, it died.

What was the Beast? The French peasants of the area believed it to be some sort of demon, but an English account from about the same time said the Beast was most likely a member of "a new species", which they said was a hybrid of tiger and hyena. Learned men believed it to have been a wolverine, a bear, or even a baboon.

Appendix: The carcass of De Beauterne's kill was found in the basement of the National Museum of Natural History in Paris. It was identified as a wolf, after which time the body was supposedly discarded due to poor condition. It was recently rediscovered by zoologist Franz Jullien, who has identified it as a striped hyena (Hyaena hyaena), normally native to Africa.

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 04:41 PM
The Winged Lady In Black....a very weird episode from Vietnam

UFO paranormal investigator Don Worley of Indiana conducted this interview back in 1971 with a 21-year-old military man who described to him a very strange experience he had near Da Nang, Vietnam, in 1969. Worley had known this young man all of his life and noted “he has no unusual interest or knowledge of the paranormal and had never heard of such a thing as this before in his life.” Adding: “He is a reliable observer. He swears this event is well beyond the capacity of his imagination.” The event happened before the monsoons in either July or August of 1969, approximately 1 or 1:30 a.m. Following are excerpts from Worley’s interview of this soldier:

Witness: There were three of us. And all of a sudden, I don’t know why we all three looked out there in the sky and we saw this figure coming toward us. It had a kind of glow and we couldn’t make out for sure what it was at first. It started coming toward us real slowly. And all of a sudden we saw what looked like wings, like a bat only it was gigantic compared to what a regular bat would be. After it got close enough so we could see what it was it looked like a woman. A naked woman. The color*she was black.

Worley: Her skin was black?

Witness: Right, her body was black, her skin was black, the wings were black, everything was black. But it glowed. It glowed in the night*kind of a greenish cast to it.

Worley: You mean she glowed or there was a glow around her?

Witness: There was a glow on her and around her. Everything glowed. Looked like she glowed and threw off a radiance. And we saw her arms toward the wings. They looked like a regular molded arm with the hand and fingers and everything, but they had skin from the wings going over. And when she flapped her wings it didn’t make any noise there at first. It looked like her arms didn’t have any bones in them or anything because they were limber just like a bat. She started going over us and we still didn’t hear anything. She was right straight up and when she got over top of our heads she was maybe 6 or 7 feet up.

Worley: What did you guys do*just stand there?

Witness: We couldn’t do anything*we didn’t know what to do. We just froze. We just watched what was going over cause we couldn’t believe our eyes.

Worley: Nobody went into panic, dove for the bunker?

Witness: No, we just looked because*

Worley: Nobody fired at her?

Witness: No, it’s amazing what you would do under certain circumstances. And we just looked at it. We couldn’t believe it because we had never seen anything like this before in our lives.

So we watched her go over. We looked right straight up over the top of us and she still didn’t make any noise flapping her wings and here she was right over the top of us and we still didn’t hear nothing. She blotted out the moon once*that’s how close she was to us. And dark*looked like pitch black then but we could still define her then because she just glowed. Real bright like. And she started going past us straight toward our encampment. And we watched her and all of a sudden she got maybe about*well it would be about 10 feet or so away from us and we started hearing her wings flap. And it just sounded you know like regular wings flapping. That’s exactly what it sounded like. And she just started flying off and we watched her for quite awhile. The total time when we first saw her and could almost define her till we lost sight of her and be able to define her was in between 3 or 4 minutes.

Worley: How fast was she going when she came over you?

Witness: It seemed like she was just*I don’t know she was flapping her wings. She was almost*she was real slow. She blotted out the moon for I don’t know, maybe 10 seconds.

Worley: In other words, her speed was very slow.

Witness: Yes.

Worley: How would it compare with a walking man, a running man, or what?

Witness: It would have to be a walking man. Cause she was just almost floating over top of us.

Worley: How did she move her wings? Like an ordinary bird?

Witness: No, they rippled. You know, when they flap them how they ripple. That’s exactly how it was. That’s the reason I didn’t think she had any bones in her arms.

Worley: Let me see if I can understand her arms. She had them outstretched like this and they were like rubber?

Witness: Right.

Worley: Well where did the wings come at.

Witness: They came right to her shoulders.

Worley: Well, yeah, but you got an arm there.

Witness: Well I guess her arms were different because the way they were moving they would have to be.

Worley: Well, where was the rest of the wing.

Witness: Well it was fastened down here by her thigh or mid-thigh, or little closer to her knee. Then they come up to her arm and straight over to her shoulder. She had them straight out like this with the bottom part hanging down and she was just flapping ‘em like that.

Worley: Well what makes you think this was a woman?

Witness: Well it looked like a woman. You could see her, she was naked.

Worley: What parts did you see of her?

Witness: Her whole*well if you were standing towards a person it would be the same thing as looking at the front of her.

Worley: Well which position was she flying in?

Witness: She was flying just like she was supposed to fly*the bottom part down, which meant that we saw her face, her chest, and her legs.

Worley: You mean you seen things here.

Witness: Right! She was a very well developed woman. She was true.

Worley: See anything else anywhere else?

Witness: Well she was just like an ordinary body.

Worley: What about the legs part?

Witness: It looked just like an ordinary woman. But she had wings. She glowed. She had down all over her body.

Worley: Down?

Witness: Right, you know like fur. Or whatever it was. I guess it had to be fur cause it didn’t look like feathers.

Worley: But then still she looked dark?

Witness: Right. Looked like she was of the negroid race. Cause her skin tone was black.

Worley: Who did you tell this to the next day?

Witness: Everybody. Nobody would believe us.

Worley: Did you report this officially to any officers?

Witness: Of course we did, to our lieutenant and junior executives, and they kind of just looked at us and then walked off. Like we had been on dope or something. That night after it happened we called the next post down the perimeter and asked them if they had seen anything in the sky and when they said no, what are you guys talking about, we shut up and didn’t say anymore.

Worley: What color was her hair?

Witness: It was black, but it was straight, it was straight like the Caucasian race and not kinky like the Negroid. But it was jet black.

Worley: But I thought you said there was green here somewhere?

Witness: Well that’s the radiance she was giving off. A real light green like a green white. Whitish green.

Worley: Did she especially seem to want to come to you guys?

Witness: No, she was looking down at us when she was flying over you know, but then she put her head back like she was looking to where she was going like she had someplace she was going.

Worley: She looked down at you as she went over?

Witness: Right. She didn’t veer her course at all. She came right over the top of us.

Worley: When she came at you how was her head?

Witness: When she was coming at us she was looking straight ahead. When she went over she glanced down, then looked back up and went straight on.

Worley: You seen her move her head?

Witness: Right, she didn’t look like somebody was flying a kite over us or anything. She looked like a person with wings!

Worley: Did she move her feet?

Witness: No, everything was still except her head and of course her arms. The skin of her wings looked like it was molded onto her hands. Looked like the way she was born or something I guess.

Worley: Was she a skinny, big or little woman?

Witness: She looked medium sized to me. If standing up I’d believe she’d be about 5 foot something.

Worley: Did you see her eyes?

Witness: I don’t remember if I did or not. I saw a face. I saw a regular face but I don’t remember anything about the eyes. I know it was a woman because of these breasts.

Worley: Didn’t have any clothes on?

Witness: No, none whatsoever.

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 04:42 PM
What is Cryptozoology?
By J.P. Bates

By definition, cryptozoology is the study of hidden or unknown animals. Something that should also be noted is the fact that it is not recognized by the scientific community as a science. There are no degrees in it, and therefore, there is no such thing as a cryptozoologist.

Many of you have probably heard people call themselves cryptozoologist though. But, in the words of a close friend ; "If I study biology, it doesn't make me a biologist." Makes sense, no? You must have a degree to be any kind of "ologist".

Personally (and this is merely my opinion, so it doesn't really count for anything), I don't think that cryptozoology will ever be considered a true science. And why should it? There isn't much science involved. Really the closest thing to scientific method existant in this field is the gathering of evidence.

I think the main reason that this field isn't taken seriously is that so many people in it bring shame to the scientific community as a whole. Those who would call themselves "scientists" are merely people interested in finding what may or may not be there. This makes cryptozoology more of a hobby than it will ever be a science. The fact alone that anybody can do it makes it so controversial that the scientific community laughs upon it.

Truely, anybody can take up this interesting and sometimes fruitful field. But beware, it is home of a brooding arrogance and self-centeredness that could turn your life upside-down. It is easy, as many cryptozoologists have shown, to become completely infatuated with oneself and gain that annoying "I'm always right, you're always wrong" attitude that makes people wish they never met you. Although this arrogance isn't extremely common in the field, it is dangerous when encountered.

I ask, what is the point of being so narrow minded as to think you're always right, no matter what? Especially in a field such as this! Without an open mind, one could easily go insane in this field. You must be able to realize that not every cryptid (a term for an animal under the cryptozoological microscope) has to be real, nor does it have to be what we think it is. If we finally track down the Sasquatch and prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that it was an escaped gorilla from the local zoo, there will be those who are glad the controversy is over. However, there will undoubtedly also be those who say "nah, that's not true, its still out there."

What is cryptozoology if not the quest for truth? And if this quest is completed, what the hell was the point if all the people are only willing to believe their own truth? It would be wonderful if every cryptid turned out to be real, but.....it wouldn't. A lot of people would be famous for doing it, but.....it would be so empty...

The whole allure of cryptozoology is not only the search for the hidden, but the thrill of the hunt. People love things they can't explain. Especially in a somewhat monotonous everyday life routine, its not only good for you to have a few kinks thrown in, but its also fun. Imagine a world where everything was explained? I'd rather not.

So, is cryptozoology just a useless tool, an escape from the boring labors of everyday life? Perhaps, for some. But its also a quest for truth, an investigation in the mysteries of life, a look into the world of nature and trying to understand it.

It would be moronic to believe that we know everything that resides in this world. There are things out there that defy our conventional scientific explanation, that science would rather not mess with because they can't be proven. There are unexplainable mysteries that we haven't even encountered yet, and questions left to be answered. So if the scientific community won't investigate these things, and attempt to solve them, who will?

There will always be those who search for the truth. The few who volunteer their time and resources to try and uncover the many mysteries of this world. Now, this burden lies on you. Good luck.

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 04:44 PM
Wendigo Facts, Legend and Information

Spirit of the Lonely Places

The wendigo is one of the lesser known entries in the encyclopedia of cryptozoology. Most people today probably know the term as a result of the 2001 horror film, the Algernon Blackwood story or the comicbook character. There is some confusion over the names wendigo and windigo. Most people use the two terms interchangeably, others say they are actually different, one being a living creature the other a spirit.

The legend of the wendigo has a long history. It was part of the folklore of the various Native American tribes - especially the Algonquian people - and was to be found in what now makes up the northern US States and Canada.
Some people consider the wendigo to be simply a version of Bigfoot or Sasquatch. In fact the creature's origin is more complex - it's a little like a cross between a werewolf, Bigfoot and a troll!

The wendigo is a man-beast that lives in alone the forest. It is far from benign, feeding whenever possible on human flesh - especially that of children.

The wendigo originates as a human being. However the person is then possessed by an evil spirit and transforms into the beast. The most common reason for becoming a wendigo is if one eats human flesh. For this reason, it has been suggested that the wendigo legend came about in order to prevent tribes from descending into cannibalism during times of food shortage.

Some say that people bitten by a wendigo will begin to develop a craving for human flesh and eventually become possessed themselves. There is no cure.

The wendigo is also known as the "spirit of the lonely places". It is certainly a lone creature, again possibly a reference to the casting out of those who break tribal taboos. The wendigo hides in the forests and tracks you silently, always just out of sight. It waits, biding its time until it can pounce.

Cryptid or Phantom?
If the wendigo is a mythical spirit, what is it doing in the cryptozoology section? Cryptids are real hidden creatures, not myths.
That's true, however many myths have their basis in fact. Some people believe that the legend of the wendigo is itself based on a Bigfoot like creature. Many unexplained disappearances have been blamed on wendigo attacks.

There have been many wendigo sightings over the years, especially in Minnesota where the creature is believed to live in the woods and prairies. In particular there was a rash of well publicised sightings around the beginning of the twentieth century; it was probably these that inspired Algernon Blackwood.

It's interesting to note that the wendigo legend is restricted to the colder parts of the American continent and hasn't spread south. Could the wendigo be a relative of the yeti?

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 04:45 PM
Traveling Madly Through Time
From Stephen Wagner,Your Guide to Paranormal Phenomena.

People who say they've done it – or invented machines that make it a reality
The notion of traveling backward or forward through time has long been a favorite subject of science fiction writers, films and television shows - from H.G. Wells' The Time Machine to the Back to the Future film series to Mr. Peabody and Sherman's Way-Back Machine. The idea is tantalizing, of course, because it affords the possibility of not only viewing the truth of history first-hand, but also perhaps to interact with it and alter it. Likewise, venturing into the future lets us see the many marvels - or horrors - of future technology and civilization.
Time travel has also been the fascination of scientists, both professional and of the basement variety. Many phycisists believe that time travel is at least theoretically possible, although there seems to be no hard evidence that anyone from the future has traveled back in time to visit us today - unless, that is, you accept the conclusion of some ufologists who believe UFOs and "aliens" are actually Earth-resident time travelers.

Believe it or not, there are some people who believe that time travel is possible today. And there are some who claim that they have actually accomplished the feat. Let's take a look at some of these paranormal claims.

Stopping a Clock

In 1990, John Bajak copyrighted (not patented) his invention of a Flux Capacitance Time Travel Circuit, and he even provided the schematics for it to KeelyNet. And it works, he says. It's amazing it never made the front page of the newspaper.

Excerpt: "Point transducer output toward the person or thing you want changed. That thing, such as a clock or piece of shelving, will begin oscillating between past and future.... I noticed time stretched thinner and thinner until I noticed time seemed to stop while it was turned on. This took place in clocks I watched on my VCR and a German-made clock given to me by my father. I noticed time seemed to decelerate after a certain period of turn-on, then accelerate when the button was turned off, according to the changing pattern of the capacitor."
Bajak goes on to relate how his TV exploded, reassembled itself, talked to him and "threatened" him. Apparently, this time travel business can be dangerous. By his own admission, Bajak was taken to a psychiatric hospital where, I'm sure, he had a lot of time on his hands.

The Radio Time Machine

Then there's the guy who traveled back in time by accident. Although he does not identify himself, the author of this Reverse Time Travel Anecdote is part of the Emanon Inventor's Association. According to the story, this guy was trying to build a short-wave radio and – shazam! – was transported back in time!

Excerpt: "About five minutes to four in the morning, and still taking voltage checks, my friend received a rather pronounced static discharge from the radio. He noticed that, just above the coils, was a very peculiar glowing electrical field just above the center of the coils. This glowing field lasted about six – seven seconds and, then, abruptly disappeared. The most amazing thing, though, was the fact that after this field disappeared, ALL THE CLOCKS IN HIS APARTMENT HAD MOVED FROM 3:55 A.M. TO TEN P.M.!! (...time went backwards...)"
After this incident, the experimenter unplugged his radio, got drunk and went to bed. There's no indication of whether or not there was an effort to duplicate the experiment or document the findings. Oh well... another profound loss for science.

A Course in Miracles?

Would you like to try time travel yourself? If so, take the online Course in Time Travel. Fortunately, you won't need any special machinery or electrodes plugged into your head. All you need, say the authors, is the ability to achieve a certain state of meditation - "open eye meditation" to be precise.

Excerpt: "The ability to Time Travel is an important part of our nature. It is something we are all called upon to learn, sooner or later. In order to travel in time we need to know the rules of time. Once these rules are mastered, time can no longer imprison us! Time Travel will take you on an incredible journey where you can play Cosmic detective in your quest to unravel the mysteries of the Ages. Your journey can take you from the farthest reaches of the universe to the unfathomable depths of inner space."
Although the authors provide step-by-step instructions for their form of time travel, unfortunately they do not offer any proof, anecdotal or otherwise, that they have actually accomplished it.

Next Page > Time Slips

Traveling through time presents all kinds of interesting possibilities and problems. The problems arise when, by traveling to the past, we alter it. One classic time-travel paradox poses the dilemma: What would happen if you traveled back in time and accidentally killed your parents before you were born? And if you weren't born, how could you exist to travel back in time? Some of these problems are discussed in Plausibility of Time Travel, which also offers some ways around this paradox – including alternate universes.
But these apparent paradoxes don't seem to bother people like Steven Gibbs, who says he's already had the pleasure of traveling through time.

Riding the HDR

In an interview with Strange magazine, Steven Gibbs relates how he became interested in time travel when, back in 1981, he received a letter from his future self. Gibbs is the inventor of a device he calls the Hyper Dimensional Resonator (HDR), which he says can be used to transport anyone through time. In fact, he's received reports from several of his customers:

Excerpt: "There are so doggoned many grids up in the California area that anybody who activates one of my HDR units in California is pretty much going to travel physically through time whether they like it or not. And some of them haven't even gotten back, from what I've heard. And that's kind of the danger involved in physical time travel. And usually people who travel physically to the fifth dimension generally don't come back alive. Because there are some beings in the fifth dimension that are really headstrong about somebody setting foot in their realm up there."
The message is clear: When time traveling, stay away from the fifth dimension. Gibbs goes on to relate how he used his HDR to jump from a positive universe to a negative one. And somehow, the "grey" aliens and Men In Black are also involved in all this. And if you're interested in trying this invention yourself, a company called Future Horizons sells them! You'll find the product at the bottom of this page.

Slippages in Time

Sometimes people travel back in time without intending to - through time slips, a perceived fold or bridge in time that brings the present in contact with another time. Such time slippages can bring a person in contact with the past or the future. The incidents seem to be brief in duration and occur and dissipate without warning or explanation.

"In 1982, Lorraine Parry was walking in a suburban road in Wembley, North of London, when she felt a distinct change of surroundings. She describes seeing it as desert-like, though she perceived herself as standing in a lake. She could "feel" the wetness against her skin. While looking at the desert she saw, '...a craft going through the air. It was like an oblong shape. I think it must have been some kind of metal, it was silvery in colour and it had some windows... I had the distinct feeling it was like a bus.' She could see faces staring back at her, reminiscent of descriptions of aliens in several UFO reports. 'They were all excited, and pointing, and I thought, they are pointing at me.'"
In another anecdote, a woman sees "ancient people" erecting a stone monument, much like Stonehenge. Are these really experiences of time slips or some kind of delusion or fantasy?

Drive Through Time

Another instance of time slippage that took place in 1969 is claimed by a man only identified as L.C. Time Traveler tells how in October of that year, L.C. and an associate were driving along Highway 167 when they passed what would be considered to be an antique car in mint condition. Oddly, however, the car's license plate was dated 1940. And that was just the beginning.

Excerpt: "As they passed the car slowly to its left, L.C. noticed the driver of the car was a young woman dressed in what appeared to be 1940 vintage clothing. The windows of her car were rolled up, a fact which puzzled L.C. because, though the temperature was nippy, it was quite pleasant and a light sweater was sufficient to keep you comfortable. As they pulled up next to the car, their study turned to alarm as their attention was riveted to the animated expressions of fear and panic on the woman's face. Driving alongside of her at a near crawl, they could see her frantically looking back and forth as if lost or in need of help. She appeared on the verge of tears. L.C. called out to her and asked if she needed help. To this she nodded 'yes,' all the while with a very puzzled look at their vehicle."
After L.C. motioned to the young woman to pull off to the side of the road, L.C. and his friend drove ahead of the old car and pulled off themselves. They got out and looked back for the car... and it had simply vanished. This episode was supposedly witnessed by another driver who was behind both cars. Time slippage? A ghost car? Or just a little too much gin on the road trip? If true, the story is one more for the time-travel folder of the unexplained.

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 04:46 PM
Time Storms in The Matrix
From Stephen Wagner,Your Guide to Paranormal Phenomena.

Incredible but true accounts of rips in the matrix of time and reality
The more we learn about the nature of reality, the more mysterious it seems. Fantasies like The Matrix films propose that life as we know it on this planet is nothing more than a highly complex computer simulation generated and imposed on our minds by sophisticated machines. Yet we might not have movies like The Matrix if it weren't for the discovery of the perplexing but apparently real nature of the world on a subatomic level. On this quantum level, if I understand it correctly, matter seems to exist as both particles and waves - or the potential to be either - and how it ultimately behaves is determined by observation.

This is a highly complex subject and well beyond the scope and depth of this article (check out the Physics area of About.com), but it may be that reality at a subatomic (or quantum) level may be determined by our own consciousness. Not all scientists quite agree with that conclusion, but it is a possibility. (As far as I know, there are no firm conclusions about quantum reality, only theories.) The bottom line is, the universe may be a set of probabilities and the world we experience day-to-day is just the most probable.

This notion leads to the concept of multiple universes (or dimensions) created by other probabilities, time travel and other mind-bending ideas. So as fantastic as The Matrix may be, reality may be far stranger.

Glowing Clouds, the Oz Factor and Strange Phenomena

One aspect of that strangeness is covered with great intelligence and forthrightness in Jenny Randles' book Time Storms: Amazing Evidence for Time Warps, Space Rifts, and Time Travel. In it, she makes a convincing case that time travel is not only possible, but that it may be taking place regularly around the world.

Randles lays the groundwork for such a possibility by explaining the current scientific thinking about quantum physics and the nature of time in layman's terms. Her explanations are clear and pretty easy to understand, which is quite a feat for such a complicated subject. And the reason for laying this groundwork is to offer a possible explanation for the many highly strange (can we call them paranormal?) experiences people have had that seem to indicate tears, warps or leaps in the fabric of time.

These fascinating anecdotes, which Randles has collected from all over the world, are the meat of the book. And they all have one common element: a peculiar energy cloud that can transport people and very often their vehicles into some unknown dimension. The result for these people can be missing time (from just minutes to days), disorientation (what Randles calls the "Oz Factor"), teleporation over impossible distances, electronic failure, gravity anomalies and other phenomena. These peculiar, glowing clouds -- time storms -- just may be an explanation for a variety of paranormal phenomena, including ghosts, spirits, synchonicity, deja vu, UFOs and what is thought of as alien abductions.

Randles suggests that none of this is paranormal at all, but that these time storms are just a scientific reality that we do not understand yet.

Page Two > Amazing but true accounts

Here are just a few of the true accounts from Time Storms:

Putre, Chile, 1977 - At 3:50 a.m. on April 24, during army training exercises, a guard saw two fuzzy violet lights descending from the mountain and heading their way. At 4:15 a.m., Corporal Armando Valdez set out into the dark to investigate them. He returned 15 minutes later, but from the opposite direction in which he set out. He seemed to be in a kind of trance, muttering, "You do not know who we are or where we come from." Inexplicably, the corporal had several days growth of beard, and his watch had stopped at 4:15 - but showed a date of April 30!
Oxford, Maine, 1975 - At 3 a.m. on October 27, David Stephens, 21, and an 18-year-old friend were in a wooded area when they heard a strange sound. They got in their car to go investigate, and the vehicle was soon enveloped in a colored glow. There was a blink in reality and the two instantly found themselves about a mile away with the car pointing in the opposite direction. They subsequently suffered various physical abnormalities, including severe disorientation.
Somerset, England, 1974 - On July 28, Peter Williamson was having a barbecue in his backyard garden, which was interrupted by a heavy electrical storm. His dog, spooked by the threatening atmosphere, cowered under a tree. Peter went to rescue the animal. There was a bright flash - and Peter vanished into thin air! Police were called and a thorough investigation and search were conducted, without success. At 8 a.m., three days later, Peter was found in some nearby bushes with one foot in a pond - as if he had just appeared there out of nowhere.
Linhares, Brazil, 1981 - On April 20, Jorge Ramos, who was a representative for a chemical company, left his home at 6 p.m. to travel a few miles to a meeting. He never arrived. His Volkswagon was found on a side road a few miles from his home; the key was still in the ignition and all his business and personal effects were in the car. Police investigations could not account for what happened to Jorge or where he was. Five days later, his wife received a frantic call from Jorge. He said that while driving his car he was covered in a strange white glow after which he found himself in a dreamy, floating state. He came to standing by an unfamiliar road and sought help. To his shock, he discovered that the date was now April 25 - and he was 600 miles from home!
This is just a small sampling of the many true accounts offered in Randles' book, and she says there are many, many others she did not include. The time storm phenomenon seems to happen with some regularity, and many might never be reported.

Is there any hard evidence for these bizarre occurrences? Randles points to an incident that took place in Florida in which a time storm may have been captured on videotape! In 1996 at 11:16 p.m., surveillance cameras were routinely monitoring and taping the area around a small factory. The videotape reveals what happened: As a worker approached one of the gates, a fuzzy white glow appeared and covered the area where the man was standing. There was brief electrical interference to the cameras, but when they cleared, the man had disappeared. One hour and 50 minutes later, the cameras recorded his sudden reappearance. He was on all fours, violently ill and suffered a two-hour gap in his memory.

This will undoubtedly be one of the most fascinating books you'll ever read, presented without nonsense and in a scientific frame of mind. In my view, as entertaining and thought provoking as The Matrix films are, they are not nearly as engaging as the incidents described in Time Storms. This stuff really happens.

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 04:53 PM
Government Conspiracies - http://www.geocities.com/donajos3/

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 04:56 PM

Every weekday morning, at least 500 people arrive at the guarded terminal owned by EG&G on the northwest side of McCarran Airport in Las Vegas, Nevada. Here they board one of a small fleet of unmarked Boeing 737-200s. Using three digit numbers prefixed by the word "Janet" as their callsigns, the 737s fly off North every half hour.

Their destination is Groom Lake, also known as Area 51, an installation so secret, its existence is denied by the government agencies and contractors that have connections there. By late 1955, the facility had been completed for flight testing of Lockheed's U-2 spyplane. Since that time, Groom Lake has undergone vast expansion, catering to the needs of testing the most advanced aircraft projects in the world. Forty-four years after it was created, Groom Lake has hosted flight testing of the aforementioned Lockheed U-2, the SR-71 Blackbird, the F-117 stealth fighter, Northrop's B-2 stealth bomber, the mysterious Aurora Project, and possibly even alien spacecraft.

Tony LeVier, Lockheed's test pilot assigned to test-fly the U-2 spyplane, claims the credit for recognizing Groom Dry Lake as a suitable test site. The CIA gave U-2 designer Kelly Johnson the task of choosing and building a secure test site. In March 1955, Johnson sent LeVier and Skunk Works foreman Dorsey Kammerer to visit potential test sites in the deserts of southern California, Nevada, and Arizona. After two weeks, LeVier presented Johnson with his impressions, and Johnson chose Groom Lake.

The Groom Lake facility has been known by many names since its construction. Kelly Johnson named the place "Paradise Ranch". When his flight test team arrived in July 1955, they simply called it "The Ranch". In fact, the secret base was formally named Watertown Strip, after the town in upstate New York where CIA director Allen Dulles was born. In June 1958, it was officially designated Area 51 by the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). The adjacent AEC proving grounds became known as the Nevada Test Site and divided into such numbered areas. The base is now known worldwide as "Area 51" (thanks to numerous mentions in Hollywood shows and movies), though officially this designation was dropped in the 1970s.

By 1970, the USAF Systems Command took over the operation of Groom Lake. At this time, the U-2 and A-12/SR-71 spyplanes had both been tested and in service on reconnaissance missions. Unmanned high-speed drones were also being tested, including the Model 147 Lightning Bug, Model 154 Firefly, and D-21 Tagboard. In 1967, the United States acquired its first Soviet MiG-21 and the US efforts to acquire Soviet weapons technology expanded.

In 1975, the Red Flag series of realistic air warfare exercises started at Nellis AFB, using large portions of the ranges surrounding Groom Lake. The box of airspace surrounding Groom Lake was strictly off-limits to Red Flag aircrews. It became known as "Red Square" at this time, but later acquired the semi-official title of "Dreamland" as a series of new exotic aerospace projects evolved in the late 1970s. These included the Have Blue and Tacit Blue stealth technology demonstrators. The testing of these aircraft brought extreme security measures at Groom Lake.

The Groom Lake base was considerably expanded in the 1980s. The main runway (14/32) was extended to the south, and then a huge northernly extension built out onto Groom Dry Lake, today having a length of 27,000 feet. A smaller parallel runway was built in the early 1990s. Semi-recessed "scoot and hide" shelters were built on the main taxiway so that secret aircraft could be more easily hidden from spying satellites overhead. New radars, satellite telemetry and other communications facilities were installed, and extra warehouse and assembly areas constructed. The base housing area was completely rebuilt, accomodating up to 2,000 people, and an extensive recreational facility provided. Today, Groom Lake seems to be administered by Detachment 3 of the Air Force Flight Test Center at Edwards AFB.

Perimeter securtiy was also increased. Until 1984, it was easy to view the base from Bald Mountain and other hills in the Groom Range to the north of the lakebed. The USAF then extended the Nellis range military reservation to cut off the view...or so they thought! Two hillsides to the south of the Groom Range still offered a view of the base from 12 miles away. White Sides Peak and Freedom Ridge, these points were annexed by authorities in 1995.

Clearly marked but not actually fenced, the entire boundary of the base is patrolled by an anonymous security force equipped with high-tech surveillance gear. Remote electronic sensors detect movement along known dirt tracks and roads leading towards the installation. It has been thought for quite a while now that the surveillance equipment is so advanced that certain sensory equipment has the ability to smell a person coming near the boundary, and distinguish him/her from other animals nearby. The ground patrols, often called "Cammo Dudes", are assisted by FLIR-equipped Sikorsky MH-60G Pave Hawk helicopters.

Since the Tacit Blue flights ended in 1985, only two further black projects which were presumably test-flown from the secret base, have since been officially acknowledged. These were both stealth air-launched missiles: the Lockheed Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM), cancelled in 1992, and the Northrop Tri-Service Stand-Off Attack Missile, cancelled in 1994. So what activities are taking place at Groom Lake?

In 1989, a man named Bob Lazar appeared on a Las Vegas television station and claimed that he had been employed at Area 51 for the purpose of "reverse engineering" alien flying saucers. He alledged that nine of these disc-shaped craft were flown from a highly secure facility named "S-4" at Papoose Lake, 10 miles southwest of Groom Lake.

Lazar's story has been widely criticized and a more credible link to disc-shaped objects is that they are testbeds for anti-gravity propulsion systems, being tested at Groom Lake. Such technology would represent an unprecedented leap worthy of the most extreme secrecy. So would an operational hypersonic spyplane with another new propulsion system, such as Pulse Detonation Wave Engines or hydrogen-powered scramjets.

There is much circumstantial evidence to link Groom Lake with (at the very least) experimental high-Mach vehicles. It has even been claimed that a new mother/daughter combination like the A-12/D-21 has been flown, known as the Super Valkyrie. Evidence from base-watchers and elsewhere also suggests other top-secret, Special Accesss Programs that have been conducted at Groom Lake in recent years:

High Altitude Stealth Reconnaissance: Large subsonic long-endurance vehicle jointly developed by Lockheed and Boeing to replace the SR-71's ability to overfly denied territory at will. Based on the Skunk Works failed bid for the Advanced Tactical Bomber (ATB) - the B-2, it was cancelled in 1992 after at least $300 million had been spent, and replaced by the Tier 3 Minus UAV (Lockheed's Darkstar).
Covert Assault Transport: Probably a delta configuration with advanced V/STOL capabilities but with very low noise as well as radar signature. Probably cancelled in 1993 in favor of further Bell/Boeing V-22 Osprey development.
Stealth Helicopter: Different designs with emphasis on low blade and transmission noise, also exploring new technology to reduce blade and efflux signature. (Sikorsky's new attack helicopter, the successor to the Apache - the Comanche, incorporates stealth technology, but this is being tested elsewhere.)
Cloaking Technology: Cloaking technology in the form of electrochromatic panels mounted to aircraft has been revealed as being tested at the Area 51 installation.
Recently, a new theory which is of a very good basis has risen which gives an idea as to the glowing objects seen above the Groom Lake installation. Researcher Tom Mahood has mentioned his theory that the objects moving at incredible speeds with sudden directional changes, emitting an unusual glow, could in fact be the result of experimental proton beam systems.

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 04:58 PM

The CFR’s Annual Report for July 1, 1993-June 30, 1994, page 4, states:
"The Council on Foreign Relations is a nonprofit, and nonpartisan membership organization dedicated to improving the understanding of US foreign policy, and international affairs through the exchange of ideas.

The Council was founded in 1921 shortly after the end of World War I. Several of the American participants in the Paris Peace Conference decided that it was time for more private American citizens to become familiar with the increasing international responsibilities, and obligations of the United States. This decision led to the creation of an organization dedicated to the continuous study of US foreign policy for the benefit of both its members, and a wider audience of interested Americans."

The New World Order, by Pat Robertson, Copyright 1991, by Word, Inc., Dallas, Texas. All rights reserved, page 66-67, states:

"This august body of ‘wise men’ has effectively dominated the making of foreign policy by the United States government since before World War II. The CFR has included virtually every key national security, and foreign policy adviser of this nation for the past seventy years." Page 96: "In government policy, the most visible expression of the Establishment is the Council on Foreign Relations, and its publication, Foreign Affairs. Out of some twenty-nine hundred members, at least five hundred are very powerful, another five hundred are from centers of influence, and the rest are influential in academia, the media, business, and finance, the military, or government. A few are token conservatives."

Page 97:

"According to a man who had been a member for fifteen years, Rear Admiral Chester Ward, former judge advocate general of the navy from 1956 to 1960.

‘This purpose of promoting disarmament, and submergence of US sovereignty, and national independence into an all-powerful one-world government is the only objective revealed to about 95 percent of 1,551 members [in 1975]. There are two other ulterior purposes the CFR influence is being used to promote; but it is improbable that they are known to more than 75 members, or that these purposes ever have even been identified in writing.’

The goals of the Establishment are somewhat strange, and we will discuss them in detail. At the central core is a belief in the superiority of their own skill to form a world system in which enlightened monopolistic capitalism can bring all of the diverse currencies, banking systems, credit, manufacturing, and raw materials into one government-supervised whole, policed of course by their own world army." (Could this be the army of the United Nations?)

CFR membership is made up of present, and past Presidents, Ambassadors, Secretaries of State, Wall Street investors, international bankers, foundation executives, Think Tank executives, lobbyist lawyers, NATO, and Pentagon military leaders, wealthy industrialist, media owners, and executives, university presidents, and key professors, select Senators, and Congressmen, Supreme Court Justices, Federal Judges, and wealthy entrepreneurs.

They hold regular secret meetings including members, and very select guests. Occasionally they will hold a public meeting, and invite the open press (including C-SPAN), in order to give the impression that they are a harmless group engaged only in social activities.

A number of people, when hearing about the CFR ask, "If you say that the CFR is such a secret organization, why is it that we can get a copy of their annual report, which contains a list of their members? Why should I believe you when you say that they are a secret organization?"

Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary, states that the definition of attribute is "To ascribe by way of cause, inherent quality, interpretation, authorship, or classification..." The literal translation is "You had better not tell the outsiders what we do, or say".

The answer then comes from their own document, the Council on Foreign Relation’s 1992 Annual Report, where they emphatically state, in 20 different places, and in varying terms, that members better not tell:

Page 21:

"At all meetings, the Council’s rule of non-attribution applies. This assures participants that they may speak openly without others later attributing their statements to them in public media or forums, or knowingly transmitting them to persons who will."

Page 122:

"Like the Council, the Committees encourage candid discourse by holding their meetings on a not-for-attribution basis."

Page 169:

Article II of the by-laws states: "It is an express condition of membership in the Council, to which condition every member accedes by virtue of his or her membership, that members will observe such rules, and regulations as may be prescribed from time to time by the Board of Directors concerning the conduct of Council meetings or the attribution of statements made therein, and that any disclosure, public, or other action by a member in contravention thereof may be regarded by the Board of Directors in its sole discretion as grounds for termination or suspension of membership pursuant to Article I of the by-laws."

Page 174:

"Full freedom of expression is encouraged at Council meetings. Participants are assured that they may speak openly, as it is the tradition of the Council that others will not attribute or characterize their statements in public media or forums or knowingly transmit them to persons who will. All participants are expected to honor that commitment."

Page 175:

"It would not be in compliance with the reformulated Rule, however, for any meeting participant (i) to publish a speaker’s statement in attributed form in a newspaper; (ii) to repeat it on television or radio, or on a speaker’s platform, or in a classroom; or (iii) to go beyond a memo of limited circulation, by distributing the attributed statement in a company or government agency newspaper. The language of the Rule also goes out of its way to make it clear that a meeting participant is forbidden knowingly to transmit the attributed statement to a newspaper reporter or other such person who is likely to publish it in a public medium. The essence of the Rule as reformulated is simple enough: participants in Council meetings should not pass along an attributed statement in circumstances where there is substantial risk that it will promptly be widely circulated or published."

... "In order to encourage to the fullest a free, frank, and open exchange of ideas in Council meetings, the Board of Directors has prescribed, in addition to the Non-Attribution Rule, the following guidelines. All participants in Council meetings are expected to be familiar with, and adhere to these Guidelines. ..."

Page 176:

"Members bringing guests should complete a "guest notice card", and acquaint their guests with the Council’s Non-Attribution Rule governing what is said at meetings."

Later on page 176:

"As a condition of use, the officers of the Council shall require each user of Council records to execute a prior written commitment that he will not directly or indirectly attribute to any living person any assertion of fact or opinion based upon any Council record without first obtaining from such person his written consent thereto."

In "A letter from the Chairman" in the 1994 Annual Report for the CFR, Peter G. Peterson states on page 7, that:

"... Members had occasion to meet in intensive off-the-record sessions with Secretary of State [Warren] Christopher, National Security Advisor [Anthony] Lake, Secretary [of State emeritus, George Pratt] Shultz, Ambassador [Mickey] Kantor, Under Secretary of the Treasury [Lawrence H.] Summers, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and other ranking officials. Next on our agenda are plans for reaching out to congressional leaders as well, an opportunity we will fashion as one component of an enhanced Washington Program."

The CFR’s 1999 Annual Report, page 5, states their three goals:

1. Add value by improving understanding of world affairs and by providing new ideas for US foreign policy.

2. Transform the Council into a truly national organization to benefit from the expertise and experience of leaders nationwide.

3. Find and nurture the next generation of foreign policy leaders and thinkers.

These are "THEIR" words, not mine. I am simply reporting these facts to you. If this is not a secret organization, then why would they be so emphatic, and state in 20 different ways that non-attribution (or You better not tell) was so important, in their very own annual report? In addition, if you are proud of what you say, and do, then you don’t care whether it becomes public knowledge, or not. The other side of this coin is: if you are doing something illegal, immoral, unethical, unpopular, and/or unconstitutional, you will do whatever is necessary to see that it is kept secret. In his book, "The ANGLO-AMERICAN ESTABLISHMENT", Dr. Carroll Quigley writes,

"One wintry afternoon in February 1891, three men were engaged in earnest conversation in London. From that conversation were to flow consequences of the greatest importance to the British Empire, and to the world as a whole. For these men were organizing a secret society that was, for more than fifty years, to be one of the most important forces in the formulation, and execution of British imperial and foreign policy.

The three men who were thus engaged were already well known in England. The leader was Cecil Rhodes, fabulously wealthy empire builder, and the most important person in South Africa. The second was William T. Stead, the famous, and probably also the most sensational, journalist of the day. The third was Reginald Baliol Brett, later known as Lord Esher, friend, and confidant of Queen Victoria, and later to be the most influential advisor of King Edward VII, and King George V.

The details of this important conversation will be examined later. At present we need only point out that the three drew up a plan of organization for their secret society, and a list of original members. The plan for organization provided for an inner circle, to be known as "The Society of the Elect", and an outer circle, to be known as "The Association of Helpers". Within The Society of the Elect, the real power was to be exercised by the leader, and a "Junta of Three". The leader was to be Rhodes, and the Junta was to be Stead, Brett, and Alfred Milner. In accordance with this decision, Milner was added to the society by Stead shortly after the meeting we have described."

- Quigley, Carroll (1910-1977), The Anglo-American Establishment, From Rhodes to Cliveden, 1981, Books In Focus, NY, NY pg. 3

Of the Secret Societies goals, and methods of operation Quigley writes, "The goals which Rhodes, and Milner sought, and the methods by which they hoped to achieve them were so similar by 1902 that the two are almost indistinguishable. Both sought to unite the world, and above all the English-speaking world, in a federal structure around Britain. Both felt that this goal could best be achieved by a secret band of men united to one another by devotion to the common cause, and by personal loyalty to one another. Both felt that this band should pursue its goal by secret political, and economic influence behind the scenes, and by the control of journalistic, educational, and propaganda agencies... - " Quigley, Carroll (1910-1977), The Anglo-American Establishment, From Rhodes to Cliveden, 1981, Books In Focus, NY, NY pg. 49

Between 1910-1915 the Secret Society evolved into an international group of coconspirators called Round Table Groups that were established in seven nations: Britain, South Africa, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, India, and the United States. (The British Round Table was actually created in England in Feb. 5, 1891. In the US it is called the Council on foreign Relations, in England it is the Royal Institute for International Affairs, in Canada the Canadian Institute of International Affairs, in Chile it is the Chilean Council on Foreign Relations, and so on.)

In 1920 the Secret Society evolved into the Institutes for International Affairs, and the Council on Foreign Relations. Many of the founding fathers belonged to America's first intelligence agency the INQUIRY.

Note - The above quotes were furnished by "Round Table", who has a web site at: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2807

The CFR could not accomplish their goals without complicity of the mainstream news media, which they absolutely control with an iron fist. They do this using psychological operations (PSYOPS). The RAND Corp. is one of the chief users of this technique. This is clearly explained by the following Internet message:

"Not many people have heard of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) or know how they operate. This is not an accident, the group has purposely maintained a low profile. The CFR is a branch of an international group of coconspirators called the Round Table Group. This group has been controlling public opinion throughout the world for over 100 years.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff have defined psychological operations (PSYOPS) as those that: "include psychological warfare, and, in addition, encompass those political, military, economic, and ideological actions planned, and conducted to create in neutral or friendly foreign groups the emotions, attitudes, or behavior to support achievement of national objectives." Another proposal "develops the concept of 'strategic psychological operations' as aimed at influencing, and shaping decision-makers' power to govern, or control their followers." The American people, are among the groups being targeted, and controlled.

"Tactics of Deception" are formalized psychological warfare techniques. "Tactics of Deception" build a psychological environment that differs from the material environment. "Tactics of deception" are used to create false reality worlds. In terms of perceptual psychology, "Tactics of Deception" provoke illusory precepts. To influence behavior the deception must follow three basic rules. First, the deception must be "reasonable"; second there must be no simple way of checking the facts in the case; and third the use of deception should not discredit a source which may have valuable future potential.

One way to stop this group is to expose them, and their techniques to the people they are manipulating. One "Tactic of Deception" used to achieve Council on Foreign Relations aims, is to place Council members on both sides of an issue. Another "Tactic of Deception" is to use CFR control of the legal, legislative, and court systems to create the perception that laws are being followed when in fact, Lawyers, Legislators, and Justices are committing blatant illegalities to further CFR aims. A third "Tactic of Deception" is simply to lie."

Source: roundtable’s Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2807

Another excellent example of deception and cover up is the book, "The Kennedy Tapes". Two CFR members, Ernest R. May and Philip D. Zelikow, supposedly listened to all of President John F. Kennedy audio tapes and wrote this book quoting all of the interesting facts so as to assure the public that there were no other important statements made on these tapes that the public would care to know about. There were to motives involved here: (1) to print only what the Elite wanted printed about the JFK assassination, and (2) to throw any other potential researchers off the trail. This was a very grueling task of listening to hundreds of hours of taped conversations. Therefore, other researchers should just "take their word" that they had printed all of the interesting facts from these tapes. I suspect that two non-CFR researchers would have written an entirely different book.

As Peter Grose stated in his Council on Foreign Relations Book, Continuing the Inquiry (1996) on page 5:

"They (the British) proposed a permanent Anglo-American Institute of International Affairs, with one branch in London, the other in New York."

The headquarters for the CFR is The Harold Pratt House located at 58 East 68th Street in New York City, New York 10021. Oddly enough, this building is located just across the street from the Russian (former Soviet) Embassy.

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 04:59 PM

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) was established in 1958 as the first U.S. response to the Soviet launching of Sputnik. Since that time, DARPA's primary role has been to maintain the United States' technological superiority for military capabilities and to guard against unforeseen technological advances by potential adversaries.

The DARPA mission is to go beyond traditional thinking and develop imaginative, innovative and often high risk research ideas. These ideas will offer a significant technological impact and the pursuit of these ideas will be from the demonstration of technical feasibility through the development of prototype systems. Strong support from the senior Department of Defense management has been essential, with DARPA being a deliberate counterpoint to traditional thinking and approaches.

Four decades after it's founding, DARPA is still very similiar today. The principle exception is its reporting chain. Initially, DARPA reported to the Secretary and Deputy Secretary, it later came under the Under Secretary of Defense, and more recently under the Director for Defense Research and Engineering.

Today, DARPA is an organization of 240 personnel (approximately 140 of which are technical) directly managing a budget of $2 billion. Some projects are under $1 million and a few are in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Regardless of size, a single DARPA Program Manager is in charge and must manage and represent the project internally and externally.

DARPA's ability to adapt rapidly to changing situations and to embrace opportunities in both technology and processes, while maintaining the proven founding principles of the Agency, makes DARPA a unique research and development organization and the crown jewel in Defense research and development.

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 05:00 PM

In January of 1956, Gen. Earle E. Partridge, Commander in Chief of what was then the Continental Air Defense Command, laid the groundwork for the United States Department of Defense requirement for a new underground combat operations center.
The old above-ground center, located on Ent Air Force Base Colo., was too small to manage the growing air defense system and was highly vulnerable to sabotage or attack. This new combat operations center was to be remote from other prime targets and hardened to withstand a thermonuclear blast. Studies and analyses showed that a command center hollowed out of Cheyenne Mountain in the Colorado Springs area was the best solution and could be done at a reasonable cost. To oversee this new command center and the entire air defense network of the United States and Canada, the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) was established. On May 12, 1958, the first NORAD agreement was signed by both countries, providing a framework for cooperative defense planning and operations between both governments.

Excavation began for the new NORAD Combat Operations Center in Cheyenne Mountain in May 1961. The excavation was nearly complete one year later except for the repair of a geological fault in the ceiling which was completed in May 1964. On February 6, 1966, the NORAD Combat Operations Center attained full operational capability. Operations were transferred from Ent Air Force Base to Cheyenne Mountain on April 20, 1966. The total cost of the project was $142.4 million.

In early 1979, the Air Force established a Space Defense Operations Center to counter the emerging Soviet anti-satellite threat. Although the space defense capabilities and systems established in Cheyenne Mountain were in their infancy, this marked the beginning of an increasing role in space.

The evolution continued into the 1980s when Air Force Space Command was created and tasked with the Air Force Space mission. Air Force Space Command formed the Space Combat Operations staff which absorbed control of the space/missile warning activities in Cheyenne Mountain. In April 1981, Space Defense Operations Center crews and their worldwide sensors, under the direction of Air Defense Command, supported the first flight of the space shuttle. Cheyenne Mountain has continued to support every shuttle mission since. The evolution continues into the 1990s.

In the latter part of the 1980s, the air sovereignty mission received renewed emphasis and continues to play a role today in working with U.S. and Canadian Customs Agencies. The Air Defense Operations Center uses its air defense network to provide surveillance and control of air operations to North America and unknown traffic.

Today the NORAD Combat Operations Center has evolved into the Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center which collects data from a worldwide system of satellites, radars, and other sensors and processes that information on sophisticated computer systems to support critical NORAD and U.S. Space Command missions. The Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center provides warning of ballistic missile or air attacks against North America, assists the air sovereignty mission for the United States and Canada, and, if necessary, is the focal point for air defense operations to counter enemy bombers or cruise missiles. In support of the U.S. Space Command mission, the Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center provides a day-to-day picture of precisely what is in space and where it is located. The Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center also supports space operations, providing critical information such as collision advoidance data for space shuttle flights and troubleshooting satellite interference problems. Since the Persian Gulf War, the Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center has continuted to play a viatal and expanding role in supporting our deployed forces with warning for short-range ballistic missiles such as the Iraqi SCUDs.

Cheyenne Mountain operations are conducted by six centers manned 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. The centers are: Command Center, Air Defense Operations Center, Missile Warning Center, Space Control Center, Combined Intelligence Watch Center, and the Systems Center.

Command Center

The Command Center is the heart of operations in Cheyenne Mountain. In this center, the Command Director and his crew serve as the NORAD and U.S. Space Command Commander in Chief's direct representative for monitoring, processing, and interpreting missile, space or air events which could have operational impacts on our forces or capabilities, or could be potential threats to North America or U.S. and allied forces overseas. The Command Center is linked directly to the National Command Authorities of both the U.S. and Canada as well as to rregional command centers overseas. When required, the Command Director must consult directly with the NORAD and U.S. Space Command Commander in Chief for time-critical assessments of missile, air, and space events; he takes action to ensure the Commander in Chief's response and direction are properly conveyed and executed.

Air Defense Operations Center

The Air Defense Operations Center provides command and control for the air surveillance and air defense network for North America. In 1994, they monitored over 700 "unknown" radar tracks entering North American airspace. Many of these were subsequently identified as friendly aircraft that had erred from flight plans or used improper procedures. Yet nearly 100 were idenfified as illegal drug-carrying aircraft that were subsequently prosecuted by the U.S. and Canadian Drug Enforcement Agencies.

Missile Warning Center

The Missile Warning Center uses a worldwide sensor and communications network to provide warning of missile attacks, either long or short range, launched against North America or our forces overseas. The Missile Warning Center is divided into "strategic" and "theater" sections. The strategic section forcuses on information regarding missile launches anywhere on earth which are detected by the strategic missile warning system and which could be a potential threat to Canada or the U.S. The theater section focuses on short-range missile launches processed by a Theater Event System which monitors missile launches in areas or theater which could threaten U.S./allied forces, such as when Iraqi SCUD missiles threatened our troops in Operation Desert Storm. Cheyenne Mountain's capabilities to provide timely and accurate warning and cueing for defensive systems such as the Patriot batteries have improved considerably since Desert Storm and continue to improve as new computer and communications systems are added to Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center.

Space Control Center

The Space Control Center supports the space control missions of space surveillance and protection of our assets in space. This center was formed in March 1994 through the combination of the Space Surveillance Center and Space Defensive Operations Center. The Space Control Center's primary objective in performing the surveillance mission is to detect, track, identify, and catalog all man-made objects in space. The Center maintains a current computerized catalog of all orbiting space objects, charts objects, charts present position, plots future orbital paths, and forecasts times and general locations for significant objects reentering the Earth's atmosphere. Since 1957, over 24,000 space objects have been cataloged, many of which have since reentered the atmosphere. Currently, there are about 8,000 on-orbit objects being tracked by the Space Control Center. The Center's protection mission is accomplished by compiling information on possible hostile threats which could directly or indirectly threaten U.S./allied space assets. This information is then analyzed to determine effects/impacts of these threats to our assets in space so that timely warning and countermeasure recommendations can be made. A good example of this mission is our constant protection of the space shuttle while in orbit, by providing collision avoidance information for NASA.

Combined Intelligence Watch Center

The Combined Intelligence Watch serves aas the nation's indications and warning center for worldwide threats from space, missile, and strategic air activity, as well as geopolitical unrest that could affect North America and U.S. forces/interests abroad. The Watch gathers intelligence information to assist all the Cheyenne Mountain work centers in correlating and analyzing events to support NORAD and U.S. Space Command decision makers.

Systems Center

The Systems Center ensures continuity of operations throughout the Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center by providing communications and computer systems management for over 100 computer systems and 600 communications circuits in support of NORAD and U.S. Space Command missile warning, space control, and air defense missions. This center is also responsible for monitoring all environmental systems maintained within Cheyenne Mountain, to include electrical power generation, water purity, integration of communications and computer systems testing, operator and maintenance technician training, and maintenance of all Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center communications and computer systems.

Weather Support Unit

The Weather Support Unit, located on Peterson Air Force Base, Colo., provides weather reports to the Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center Command Director on a 24-hour-a-day basis. The Weather Support Unit performs continuous meteorological monitoring of terrestrial, geophysical, and solar (space) weather elements which could affect NORAD and U.S. Space Command units, their missions, and equipment.

Cheyenne Mountain Security and Reliability

The United States’ strategic warning system is completely secure to unauthorized interference. It is a self-contained warning system using stand-alone computers and dedicated communication circuits. In addition, cryptological (scrambling) devices are employed at both ends of every communication circuit.

There are over 1,100 military and civilian personnel working in the Mountain. Although Cheyenne Mountain would probably not survive a direct hit from today’s accurate and high-yield nuclear weapons, it could survive lower yield nuclear and conventional weapons impact. It is also well protected against other actions such as sabotage and terrorism. It is self-sustaining, capable of providing its own power, water, air, and food for up to 800 people for 30 days.

The Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center comprises the largest and most complex command and control network in the world. The system uses satellites, microwave radio routes, and fiber optic links to transmit and receive vital communications. The bulk of electronic information is transmitted by two blast-hardened microwave antennas and two underground coaxial cables. Most of this information is data sent from the worldwide space surveillance and warning network directly to computers inside the Mountain. Redundant and survivable communications hot lines connect the Command Center to the Pentagon, White House, U.S. Strategic Command, Canadian Forces Headquarters in Ottawa, other aerospace defense system command posts, and major military centers around the world.

Cheyenne Mountain Operating Costs

A Cheyenne Mountain Complex cost analysis was conducted by the Air Force Audit Agency in May 1995. The audit established the total annual operating cost for Cheyenne Mountain in 1994 at $152 million. Of this total, the mission costs accounted for about 80 percent, with only 20 percent being facility related.

In fact, there are some costs which are unique to Cheyenne Mountain operations. Two noncommissioned officers are required to tighten bolts which provide strength to the rock walls, and three noncommissioned officers maintain the blast door pneumatic valves. Heating is actually a "negative cost" since the Mountain is heated as a by-product of the heat generated by its computers. Also, since there are only two entrances to the Mountain, security requirements are minimal. The audit concluded that there are very few costs unique to the Mountain and that mission expenses drive the Mountain costs, not the location.

For the past 29 years, Cheyenne Mountain has sustained a constant vigil over the North American continent, guarding against attacks from land, sea, air, and space. The Mountain continues to evolve in an ever-changing environment effectively and efficiently, supporting not only critical national defense missions for the U.S. and Canada, but also space support and theater defense missions worldwide.

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 05:01 PM
From an article by Duncan Campbell, which appeared in the New Statesman on August 12, 1988

They've got it taped
In the booming surveillance industry they spy on whom they wish, when they wish, protected by barriers of secrecy, fortified by billions of pounds worth of high, high-tech technology. Duncan Campbell reports from the United States on the secret Anglo-American plan for a global electronic spy system for the 21st century capable of listening in to most of us most of the time.

American, British and Allied intelligence agencies are soon to embark on a massive, billion-dollar expansion of their global electronic surveillance system. According to information given recently in secret to the US Congress, the surveillance system will enable the agencies to monitor and analyse civilian communications into the 21st century. Identified for the moment as Project P415, the system will be run by the US National Security Agency (NSA). But the intelligence agencies of many other countries will be closely involved with the new network, including those from Britain, Australia, Germany and Japan - and, surprisingly, the People's Republic of China.

New satellite stations and monitoring centres are to be built around the world, and a chain of new satellites launched, so that the NSA and its British counterpart, the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) at Cheltenham, may keep abreast of the burgeoning international telecommunications traffic.

The largest overseas station in the Project P415 network is the US satellite and communications base at Menwith Hill, near Harrogate in Yorkshire. It is run undercover by the NSA and taps into all Britain's main national and international communications networks (New Statesman, 7 August 1980). Although high technology stations such as Menwith Hill are primarily intended to monitor international communications, according to US experts their capability can be, and has been, turned inwards on domestic traffic. Menwith Hill, in particular, has been accused by a former employee of gross corruption and the monitoring of domestic calls.

The vast international global eavesdropping network has existed since shortly after the Second World War, when the US, Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand signed a secret agreement on signals intelligence, or SIGNIT. It was anticipated, correctly, that electronic monitoring of communications signals would continue to be the largest and most important form of post-war secret intelligence, as it had been through the war.

Although it is impossible for analysts to listen to all but a small fraction of the billions of telephone calls, and other signals which might contain "significant" information, a network of monitoring stations in Britain and elsewhere is able to tap all international and some domestic communications circuits, and sift out messages which sound interesting. Computers automatically analyse every telex message or data signal, and can also identify calls to, say, a target telephone number in London, no matter from which country they originate.

A secret listening agreement, called UKUSA (UK-USA), assigns parts of the globe to each participating agency. GCHQ at Cheltenham is the co-ordinating centre for Europe, Africa and the Soviet Union (west of the Ural Mountains).

The NSA covers the rest of the Soviet Union and most of the Americas. Australia - where another station in the NSA listening network is located in the outback, coordinates the electronic monitoring of the South Pacific, and South East Asia.

With 15,000 staff and a budget of over £500 million a year (even without the planned new Zircon spy satellite), GCHQ is by far the largest part of British intelligence. Successive UK governments have placed high value on its eavesdropping capabilities, whether against Russian military signals or the easier commercial and private civilian targets.

Both the new and existing surveillance systems are highly computerised. They rely on near total interception of international commercial and satellite communications in order to locate the telephone or other messages of target individuals. Last month, a US newspaper, the Cleveland Plain Dealer, revealed that the system had been used to target the telephone calls of a US Senator, Strom Thurmond. The fact that Thurmond, a southern Republican and usually a staunch supporter of the Reagan administration, is said to have been a target has raised fears that the NSA has restored domestic, electronic, surveillance programmes. These were originally exposed and criticised during the Watergate investigations, and their closure ordered by President Carter.

After talking to the NSA, Thurmond later told the Plain Dealer that he did not believe the allegation. But Thurmond, a right-wing Republican, may have been unwilling to rock the boat. Staff members of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence said that staff were "digging into it" despite the "stratospheric security classification" of all the systems involved.

The Congressional officials were first told of the Thurmond interception by a former employee of the Lockheed Space and Missiles Corporation, Margaret Newsham, who now lives in Sunnyvale, California. Newsham had originally given separate testimony and filed a lawsuit concerning corruption and mis-spending on other US government "black" projects. She has worked in the US and Britain for two corporations which manufacture signal intelligence computers, satellites and interception equipment for NSA, Ford Aerospace and Lockheed. Citing a special Executive Order signed by President Reagan, she told me last month that she could not and would not discuss classified information with journalists. But according to Washington sources (and the report in the Plain Dealer) she informed a US Congressman that the Thurmond interception took place at Menwith Hill, and that she personally heard the call and was able to pass on details.

Since then, investigators have subpoenaed other witnesses and asked them to provide the complete plans and manuals of the ECHELON system and related projects. The plans and blueprints are said to show that targeting of US political figures would not occur by accident, but was designed into the system from the start.

While working at Menwith Hill, Newsham is reported to have said that she was able to listen through earphones to telephone calls being monitored at the base. Other conversations that she heard were in Russian. After leaving Menwith Hill, she continued to have access to full details of Menwith Hill operations from a position as software manager for more than a dozen VAX computers at Menwith which operate the ECHELON system.

Newsham refused last month to discuss classified details of her career, except with cleared Congressional officials. But it has been publicly acknowledged that she worked on a large range of so-called "black" US intelligence programmes, whose funds are concealed inside the costs of other defence projects. She was fired from Lockheed four years ago after complaining about the corruption, and sexual harassment.

Lockheed claimed she had been a pook [as written] timekeeper, and has denied her charges of corruption on "black" projects. But the many charges she is reported to have made - such as the use of top secret computers for football pools, or to sell a wide range of merchandise from their offices, and deliberate and massive overcharging and waste by the company - are but small beer in a continuing and wider scandal about defence procurement. Newsham's testimony about overcharging by contractors is now the subject of a major congressional inquiry.

From US sources not connected with Margaret Newsham, we have obtained for the first time a list of the major classified projects in operation at Menwith Hill. The base currently has over 1,200 staff, more than two thirds of them Americans. Other than the ECHELON computer network, the main projects at Menwith Hill are code-named SILKWORTH, MOONPENNY, SIRE, RUNWAY and STEEPLEBUSH. The station also receives information from a satellite called BIG BIRD.

Project SILKWORTH is, according to signals intelligence specialists, the code-name for long-range radio monitoring from Menwith Hill. MOONPENNY is a system for monitoring satellite communications; RUNWAY is thought to be the control network for an eavesdropping satellite called VORTEX, now in orbit over the Soviet Union. The base earlier controlled a similar series of satellites called CHALET. The new STEEPLEBUSH control centre appears connected with the latest and biggest of the overhead listening satellites. These are code-named MAGNUM, according to US intelligence sources.

BIG BIRD, which is not usually connected with Menwith Hill, is a low-orbiting photographic reconnaissance satellite. But investigators have worked out, from details of the clearances necessary to know about BIG BIRD, that this satellite - and indeed, many other satellites, variously disguised as "weather satellites" - also carry listening equipment. One such SIGNIT package is said to have been aboard the doomed space shuttle Challenger, despite its ostensibly civilian purpose.

Recently published US Department of Defense 1989 budget information has confirmed that the Menwith Hill spy base will be the subject of a major $26 million expansion programme. Information given to Congress in February listed details of plans for a four-year expansion of the main operation building and other facilities at Menwith Hill. Although the testimony referred only to a "classified location", the base can be identified because of references to STEEPLEBUSH. According to this testimony, the new STEEPLEBUSH II project will cost $15 million between now and 1993. The expansion is required to avoid overcrowding and "to support expanding classified missions".

During the Watergate affair, it was revealed that the NSA, in collaboration with GCHQ, had routinely intercepted the international communications of prominent anti-Vietnam war leaders such as Jane Fonda and Dr Benjamin Spock. Another target was former Black Panther leader Eldridge Cleaver. Then in the late 1970s, it was revealed that President Carter had ordered the NSA to stop obtaining "back door" intelligence about US political figures through swapping intelligence data with GCHQ Cheltenham.

Among important stations being developed in the new P415 network, sources indicated, are Bude in Cornwall, mainly run by GCHQ, Bad Aibling in Germany, and two sites in the People's Republic of China (which are used only for monitoring the USSR). The western intelligence agencies have not yet resolved the question of how to replace the recently upgraded British intelligence listening station at Chung Hom Kok in Hong Kong (which at the moment listens to China itself) when the colony is handed back to China next decade.

In Australia three months ago, New Zealand Defence Minister Bob Tizard revealed that two Australasian interception stations planned for the early 1990s will be targeted on new communications satellites launched by third world countries such as India and Indonesia. The new satellite spy bases are at Geraldton in northern Australia and Blenheim, New Zealand. The similar British spy base at Morwenstow, near Bude, Cornwall, has been continuously expanded throughout the 1980s, including the provision of massive US analysis computers.

If Margaret Newsham's testimony is confirmed by the ongoing Congressional investigation, then the NSA has been behaving illegally under US law - unless it can prove either that Thurmond's call was intercepted completely accidentally, or that the highly patriotic Senator is actually a foreign spy or terrorist. Moreover NSA's international phone tapping operations from Menwith Hill and at Morwenstow, Cornwall, can only be legal in Britain if special warrants have been issued by the Secretary of State to specify that American intelligence agents are persons to whom information from intercepts must or should be given. This can not be established, since the government has always refused to publish any details of the targets or recipients of specific interception warrants.

When the Menwith Hill base was first set up there was no British law controlling phone tapping, or making unauthorised interception (such as by foreign intelligence agencies) illegal. Now there is, and telecommunications interception by the Americans from British territory would clearly be illegal without the appropriate warrant.

When the new Interception of Communications Act was passed in 1985, however, it was obviously designed to make special provision for operations like ECHELON or Project P415 to trawl all international communications to and from Britain. A special section of the Act, Section 3(2), allows warrants to be issued to intercept any general type of international messages to or from Britain if this is "in the interests of national security" or "for the purpose of safeguarding the economic well-being of the United Kingdom". Such warrants also allow GCHQ to tap any or all other communications on the same cables or satellites that may have to be picked up in order to select out the messages they want. So whether or not a British government warrant can legally allow American agents to intercept private British communications, there is no doubt that British law as well as British bases have been designed to encourage rather than inhibit the booming industry in international telecommunications surveillance.

Both British and American domestic communications are also being targeted and intercepted by the ECHELON network, the US investigators have been told. The agencies are alleged to have collaborated not only on targeting and interception, but also on the monitoring of domestic UK communications.

Special teams from GCHQ Cheltenham have been flown in secretly in the last few years to a computer centre in Silicon Valley near San Francisco for training on the special computer systems that carry out both domestic and international interception.

The centre near San Francisco has also been used to train staff from the "Technical Department" of the People's Liberation Army General Staff, which is the Chinese version of GCHQ. The Department operates two ultra-secret joint US-Chinese listening stations in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, close to the Soviet Siberian border. Allegedly, such surveillance systems are only used to target Soviet or Warsaw Pact communications signals, and those suspected of involvement in espionage and terrorism. But those involved in ECHELON have stressed to Congress that there are no formal controls over who may be targeted. And I have been told that junior intelligence staff can feed target names into the system at all levels, without any check on their authority to do so. Witnesses giving evidence to the Congressional inquiry have discussed whether the Democratic presidential contender Jesse Jackson was targeted; one source implied that he had been. Even test engineers from manufacturing companies are able to listen in on private citizens' communications, the inquiry was told.

But because of the special Executive Order signed by President Reagan, US intelligence operatives who know about such politically sensitive operations face jail sentences if they speak out - despite the constitutional American protection of freedom of speech and of the press. And in Britain, as we know, the government is in the process of tightening the Official Secrets Act to make the publication of any information from intelligence officials automatically a crime, even if the information had already been published, or had appeared overseas first.

The Spawn
10-30-2004, 05:02 PM

By Richard Boylan Ph.D. page 1 of 2

The secret "shadow" government is the large organisational network which operates alongside the officially elected and appointed government of the United States of America. Just as with the official government, the secret government has functional branches.

Just as with the official government, the Shadow Government has functional branches. However, unlike the official government, the purpose of the non-executive branches of the Shadow Government is simply to distribute various functions, but not to achieve a system of checks and balances, as was supposed to happen constitutionally between the executive, legislative and judicial branches of the U.S. Government. That is because the Shadow Government is a creature of a powerful elite, who need not fear being dominated by an instrument of their own creation.

In the Shadow Government five branches may be identified. These branches are: the Executive Branch, the Intelligence Branch, the War Department, the Weapons Industry Branch, and the Financial Department.

The reporting lines of the Intelligence Branch and the War Department to the Executive Branch are straightforward and obvious. Intelligence exists to provide the Executive Branch with sufficient necessary information to make adequately informed policy decisions. The War Department exists to provide coercive force to carry out Executive policy decisions which could meet with public resistance. The Special Operations units within the Intelligence Branch and War Department exist to carry out policy directives requiring covert action and official deniability.

The Weapons Industry Branch reports to the Executive Branch most often indirectly, through the War Department and/or the Intelligence Branch (for Black Budget weapons systems).

The Financial Department theoretically reports to the Executive Branch for fiscal policy implementation, but de facto also reports directly to the international power brokers who have created the Shadow Government. The Financial Department serves at times directly as their instrument of fiscal policy implementation.

An analysis of the overall purposes of these five branches suggests that the overall purpose of the Shadow Government is to exercise covert control by:

Collecting comprehensive institutional and personal information

By establishing national and international policy independently of the established Government

By developing high-tech arms and equipment, and, with these, establishing small, specialized, highly mobile, elite military units to effect these covert policies, when need arises, without having to rely on the official (and "unreliable") Armed Services, (whose subservience to the Shadow Government is reasonably suspect)

By developing an armed capability to repel any threat to the status quo, (including the uncertain ontological, social, and economic impacts of any revelation of the reality of UFO and extraterrestrial presence) through the development of a Star Wars/BMDO ground and space-based surveillance and SDI weapons network

By denying information compromising to the Shadow Government from all those outside "need-to-know" policy-making levels

By exercising control on the money supply, availability of credit, and the worth of money, through policy decisions made outside of the official Government
Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) includes George Bush, Bill Clinton, all modern CIA Directors, most modern Joint Chiefs of Staff, most modern Cabinet and top Executive Branch appointed officeholders, etc.
Tri lateral Commission David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, John D. Rockefeller, Alan Greenspan, Zbignew Brzezinski, Anthony Lake, John Glenn, David Packard, David Gergen, Diane Feinstein, Jimmy Carter, Adm. William Crowe, etc.
The Bilderberg Group Prince Hans-Adam of Liechtenstein, Prince Bernhard of Netherlands, Bill Clinton, Lloyd Bentsen, etc.
National Security Council (NCS), the military and intelligence policy-making and control group for national and international security, which reports directly to the President, its secret 5412 Committee (which directs black [covert] operations), and its PI-40 Subcommittee (aka MJ-12: which exercises policy direction and control of the UFO Cover-Up).
Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS)'s Special Operations compartment, the operations directorate which implements the orders of the NSC's 5412 Committee, utilizing the U.S. Special Forces Command.
National Program Office (NPO), which operates the Continuity of Government Project (COG), an ongoing secret project to maintain command, control, communication and intelligence executive centers during an extreme National Emergency by operating clandestine, secure, underground cities staffed by surrogates for above ground national leaders.
Federal Emergency
Management Agency FEMA's black projects compartment, which operates federal preventive-detention camps [often located on military bases or Federal Bureau of Land Management lands], secure underground shelters for the elite during cataclysms, etc.
National Security Agency (NSA), monitors and screens all telephone, telegraph, computer modem, radio, television, cellular, microwave, and satellite communications, and electromagnetic fields "of interest" around the world, and orchestrates information-control and cover-up activities related to UFO secrecy and surveillance of extra-terrestrial operations, Fort Meade, MD.
National Reconnaissance
Office (NRO), controls and collects information from global spy satellites, monitors UFO traffic entering and leaving Earth's atmosphere, coordinates firing of energy beam weapons from orbiting Star Wars satellites at selected human ground and airborne targets and selectively at extra-terrestrial craft, Pentagon basement and Dulles Airport area, VA.
National Reconnaissance
Organization (NRO) (aka MJ-TF), the military/intelligence operations arm of the PI-40 Subcommittee, conducts surveillance, interdiction, capture and confiscation of UFOs and their extra-terrestrial occupants for intelligence and "International Security" purposes; surveilles and "interacts" with close encounter experiencers, including occasional physically and sexually assaultive mind control kidnappings disguised as "Alien abductions" for psychological warfare and dis-informational purposes, headquarters unknown, probably compartmented and dispersed among various elite Delta Force Special Operations units, such as the USAF Blue Light at Hurlburt Field, Mary Esther, FL and Beale Air Force Base, Marysville, CA.
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), commands, often controls, and sometimes coordinates, the gathering of secret overseas information gathered by spies (HUMINT), electronic surveillance (SIGINT), and other means; carries out covert unconstitutional paramilitary counterinsurgency operations and preemptive political pacification projects in violation of international law, as well as counter-intelligence sting operations against foreign agents; engages in domestic surveillance, and manipulation of the U.S. political process, "in the National interest" in direct violation of its congressional charter; operates proprietary "false front" companies for profit; conducts a major share of international trans-shipment of illegal drugs, using National Security cover and immunity; and cooperates with NSA's UFO cover-up operations, Langley, VA, and worldwide branches.
Federal Bureau of Investigation,
Counter Intelligence Division The branch which investigates, surveilles and neutralizes foreign Intelligence agents operating within the U.S., and cooperates with the National Reconnaissance Organization in the surveillance of those involved in close encounters with UFOs and extra-terrestrials.
Department of Energy Intelligence (DOE-INTEL), which conducts internal security checks and external security threat countermeasures, often through its contract civilian instrumentality, the Wackenhut Corporation.
NSA's Central Security Service
CIA's Special Security Office Which respectively spy on the spies, and conduct special operations which cannot be entrusted to line intelligence officers, Ft. Meade, MD and Langley, VA.
U.S. Army Intelligence
and Security Command (INSCOM) whose assignments include psychological and psychotronic warfare (PSYOPS), para-psychological intelligence (PSYINT), and electromagnetic intelligence (ELMINT), Ft. Meade, MD.
U.S. Navy Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), which gathers intelligence affecting naval operations, and has a compartmented unit involved in UFO and USO [Unidentified Submerged Objects] information gathering.
U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI), which gathers intelligence affecting aerospace operations, and has a compartmented unit involved in investigating UFO sightings, extra-terrestrial contact reports, as well as IAC [Identified Alien Craft] surveillance, and coordination with NRO interdiction operations, Bolling Air Force Base, MD.
Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), which coordinates the intelligence data gathered from the various Armed Services intelligence branches (Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, Coast Guard and Special Forces), and provides counter-threat measures, (which include providing security at ultra-classified installations by the deployment of U.S. "Thought Police", who conduct surveillance, by remote viewing and other para-psychological measures, against penetrations and scanning by foreign or civilian remote viewers [clairvoyants/out-of-body seers], Pentagon, VA, Fort Meade, MD, and the entire astral plane.
NASA Intelligence Which gathers intelligence data relating to space flights, sabotage threats, astronaut and reconnaissance satellite encounters with UFOs and ETs, and coordinates the transfer of alien technology to U.S. and allies' aerospace operations.
Air Force Special Security Service Which is an NSA/USAF joint intelligence operations unit dealing with possible threats to aerospace operations from foreign powers, terrestrial or otherwise.
Defense Industry Security Command (DISCO), which conducts intelligence operations within and on behalf of the civilian defense contractor corporations engaged in classified research, development, and production.
Defense Investigative Service (DIS), which conducts investigations into people and situations deemed a possible threat to any operation of the Department of Defense.
Naval Investigative Service (NIS), which conducts investigations against threats to Naval operations.
Air Force Electronic Security Command Which conducts surveillance and interdiction of threats to the security of Air Force electronic transmissions and telemetry, and to the integrity of electronic countermeasure (ECM) warfare equipment.
Drug Enforcement Agency
(DEA) Intelligence Which conducts surveillance and interdiction of drug smuggling operations, unless exempted under "National Security" waivers.
Federal Police Agency Intelligence Which coordinates intelligence relating to threats against federal property and personnel.
Defense Electronic Security Command Which coordinates intelligence surveillance and countermeasures against threats to the integrity of military electronic equipment and electronic battlefield operations), Fort Worth, TX.
Project Deep Water The ongoing effects of the compromised personnel, sources and methods resulting from the secret importation of Hitler's own Nazi Intelligence chief, Gen. Reinhard Gehlen, to redesign the US's Intelligence apparatus.
Project Paperclip The ongoing results of the secret importation of Nazi weapons and aerospace/UFO scientists into U.S. secret military research and development bases.

10-31-2004, 07:38 PM
Kennedy owned.:up:

10-31-2004, 07:40 PM
Tell me about the real Hellfire Club.

10-31-2004, 07:47 PM
It was a commercial.
Nope. Wrong again.

The Spawn
11-01-2004, 07:13 AM
The Hellfire Club


The Hellfire Club dominates the summit of Montpelier Hill ten miles south of Dublin city. This substantial ruin was originally built in 1720 as a hunting lodge by William Conolly, the speaker of the Irish parliament. After his death it passed into the hands of the eponymous "Hellfire Club." The club, based on a suppressed English antecedent, was founded in Athy, Co. Kildare, in the 1730s by Richard Parsons (a.k.a. Jack St Leger) the first Earl of Rosse and a humorous painter called Worsdale. The members of the Hellfire Club were rakes and rowdy fops. They met in the Eagle Tavern on Dames Street in the city centre. As their name suggests they were rumoured to practice black magic. Reputable historians acknowledge that these stories have a basis in fact.

The Hellfire Club did indeed carry out black masses and orgies on Montpelier Hill. However they had no mythos knowledge and merely used satanic regalia to spice up their bawdy drinking sessions.

On one famous visit to Montpelier Hill the clubsmen set fire to the lodge whilst carousing within! Tradition claims that this was a wager to see who could survive the flames of Hell longest. This is incorrect. When Conolly built the lodge a 'fairy cairn' was broken. It was actually a huge Elder Sign placed there thousands of years before to trap a swarm of Fire Vampires. When the Hellfire Club (which was at that time a bunch of drunken fakers) encountered these horrific beings they were seduced to the worship of Cthuga. The fire occured when the cult summoned their master inside the stone-vaulted lodge. Though the club disappeared in the 1740s the Fire Vamp[ires are still alive, and hungry.

A wandering priest stumbled upon the Club during a macabre bacchanalia and was forced to look on. The centre of attention was a huge black cat. Breaking free from his captors the cleric grabbed the cat and uttered an exorcism which tore the beast apart. A demon shot up from its corpse, hurtling through the roof it brought down the ceiling and scattered the assembly. On another occasion Tom Conolly of Castletown is said to have met the devil in the form of a 'black man' in the lodges dinning room. The club was a branch of a suppressed English Nyarlathotep cult. After the death of its founder in 1741 the club became inactive but the cult continued, with the 2nd Earl of Rosse as its leader. It was with Nyarlathoteps help that help that William Parsons, 3rd Earl of Rosse built 'the Parsonstown Leviathan' in 1845. This huge telescope (which was dismantelled in 1908) was the largest of its kind until 1917. Though the Irish climate is completely unsuitable for serious astronomy Rosse discovered the spiral nature of other galaxies, the Crab Nebula and the greater nebula in Orion with this miraculous instrument. It's unknown whether his sons: Laurence, the 4th Earl (an astronomer) and Charles (a British inventor who died in 1931) were involved in the cult, which has today spread through the English speaking world.

11-01-2004, 10:05 PM
Have you talked to Kerry Conran about the figures?

The Spawn
11-02-2004, 06:52 AM
No....he's been sick for a while.

11-02-2004, 06:40 PM
Make those damn figures.

The Spawn
11-03-2004, 07:09 AM
I haven't played with dolls for a while.

C. Lee
11-03-2004, 08:12 AM
Make those damn figures.

11-03-2004, 03:05 PM
I don't get it.

C. Lee
11-04-2004, 02:55 AM
Hoover Dam.

The Spawn
11-04-2004, 12:15 PM
Now do you get it?

The Kingpin
11-04-2004, 05:41 PM
Spawn doesn't get it.

11-05-2004, 12:36 AM
Yeah, I get it. That's pretty cheesy C. Lee.

C. Lee
11-05-2004, 12:53 AM

The Spawn
11-05-2004, 10:25 AM
I got that one.

11-06-2004, 01:00 AM
Even cheesier.

Spawn, what schooling do roboticists have?

The Spawn
11-08-2004, 10:27 AM

11-08-2004, 11:43 PM
That doesn't tell me how to be come a roboticist. As a matter of fact, it only mentions the word "roboticist" once. Do you just type a key word I give you into Google and post the first result?

The Spawn
11-09-2004, 12:02 AM
No, that was the first time. I wanted to see if you'd notice the fact that I didn't answer your question.

11-09-2004, 12:36 AM
It wasn't the first time. Can you answer my question now?

The Spawn
11-09-2004, 07:06 AM

11-09-2004, 10:48 PM
Could you tell about the Nobel Prize and all it's categories?

The Spawn
11-10-2004, 12:01 PM
Its an annual award for outstanding contributions to:


11-11-2004, 12:53 AM
Which category can a roboticist win in?

11-11-2004, 01:02 AM

11-11-2004, 01:19 AM
Hypothetically, can you win every year?

The Spawn
11-11-2004, 07:06 AM
if you're me, wangari maathai, shirin ebadi, jimmy carter jr. or martin luther king jr.

The Lizard
11-11-2004, 07:30 AM
Wow you are really intent on....never mind.

The Spawn
11-11-2004, 08:55 AM
Taglines for Spaceballs (1987)

May the schwartz be with you.

11-11-2004, 07:27 PM
Where'd that come from?

11-11-2004, 08:42 PM
Yes...why the turn from Paranormal investigation to:
May the schwartz be with you.

11-11-2004, 08:44 PM
But I have a paranormal question, my friend.
Is the video of the chair moving on the TV/reality series Ghost Hunters fake or real?

The Spawn
11-12-2004, 07:06 AM
Never seen it. But most likely is.

The Spawn
11-21-2004, 01:41 AM
Another scientist casts doubt on Atlantis theory
By Jean Christou

ANOTHER scientist has come forward to challenge American researcher Robert Sarmast’s theory that a rise on the seabed off Cyprus is part of the lost continent of Atlantis.

Earlier this week, a French geologist living in Cyprus called Sarmast to a public debate on the issue. A day later, a German physicist said what had been found by Sarmast’s expedition was a merely a 100,000 year-old underwater mud volcano. He and two other scientists said they had surveyed the same area last year.

In an email to the Cyprus Mail yesterday, physical geographer and marine geologist Dr Ulf Erlingsson from Florida joined the fray.

Erlingsson is the author of Atlantis from a Geographer's Perspective: Mapping the Fairy Land, which pinpoints Ireland as the likely location, based, like Sarmast, on Plato’s writings.

However, Erlingsson argues that with over 20 years of experience of mapping the sea floor with sonar, and having studied the Atlantis dialogues in detail, Sarmast’s Cyprus hypothesis “does not hold up to scrutiny”.

Erlingsson says the Cyprus hypothesis appears implausible to begin with, for several reasons. “Because the island of Atlantis does not fit in the Eastern Mediterranean with the measures that Plato gave (3000x2000 stadia), and also because it is assumes an extremely low sea level very recently.

Furthermore it is not positioned outside the pillars of Hercules, nor in an ocean,” he said.

“However, the real killer of the hypothesis is that 100,000-year-old mud volcanoes exist on the spot. How could it then have been dry land only 12,000 years ago?”

Sarmast dates the deluge that was said to have submerged Atlantis at between 10,000 and 30,000 BC.
Erlingsson said that if that area had been above the sea surface until recently, “as the Cyprus hypothesis stipulates”, then the mud volcanoes would have been eroded sub-aerially. “The whole landscape would show signs of recently having been drowned,” he said.

“We can see examples of this in the southern Baltic Sea, drowned about 10,000 years ago. The fluvial morphology is easily identifiable under the mud. Thus, if German experts were there last year and failed to identify signs of sub-aerial erosion, the hypothesis that it recently was dry land must be dismissed.”

Responding to the German argument on Thursday, Sarmast said that what he had found during his expedition last week was a “table top mountain” and not a mud volcano. He said that it was not a big surprise that there were mud volcanoes, but that did not mean his find could be classified in the same category. He challenged his detractors to prove their claims.

Sarmast, the author of Discovery of Atlantis: The Startling Case for the Island of Cyprus, announced last Sunday that he and his team had located man-made structures in the area they had earmarked as the site of the underwater lost city.

He said two walls three kilometres long had been located and that the Acropolis Hill was 2.5 miles long and half a kilometer wide. His team is putting together the sonar side-scans taken during the expedition, which should be ready within 10 days. Sarmast hopes to launch a second expedition which will utilise submarine technology capable of shifting 30-50 metres of sediment a day.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2004

11-21-2004, 03:08 AM
Who created Clown?

The Spawn
11-22-2004, 07:04 AM

The Spawn
12-11-2004, 09:50 PM

Scarlet spidey
12-11-2004, 10:10 PM
Who created Clown?
You did.

12-12-2004, 01:14 AM
You did.

What the hell are you talking about?

Spawn, you know what I'm talking about.

The Kingpin
12-12-2004, 09:31 AM
You did.


The Spawn
12-14-2004, 11:14 AM
No, I do not.

The Spawn
12-14-2004, 11:19 AM
Metal storm (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread242/pg2)

12-14-2004, 08:10 PM
Yes, you do. Who created Clown/Violator from the Spawn comic books.

The Spawn
12-15-2004, 08:19 AM
Todd McFarlane

12-15-2004, 05:25 PM
No Frames
Navigation Info

Also Apollyon, Appolyon and Appolion (Greek). Abaddon — literally meaning destruction, ruin or perdition — is the Hebrew name of the demon identified as the 'angel' of the bottomless pit, or the abyss, in Revelation, 9, 11. Also known as 'The Destroyer', from his role as one of the destroying angels of the Apocalypse. In Job 26:6, and Proverbs 15:11, the word Abaddon arises in conjunction with Sheol.

Abaddon/Apollyon is the chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy, the king of the grasshoppers, or demon locusts (described as having the bodies of winged war-horses, the faces of humans, and the poisonous curved tails of scorpions).

Cornelius Agrippa was the one that equated Abaddon with Apollyon, and positioned him as the monarch in the lower shadow of the sphere of the planet Venus, which is the Sephirah of Netzach on the Kabbalistic Tree:

"The seventh mansion the Furies possess, which are powers of evil, discords, war and devastations, whose prince in the Revelations is called in Greek Apollyon, in Hebrew Abaddon, that is destroying and wasting"
(Occult Philosophy, Book 3, Chapter 18).

The biblical verse cited by Agrippa is Revelation 9:11, which reads:

"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

As described in Revelation, Apollyon opens the gates of the abyss and unleashes upon the earth his swarms of demons locusts, who then proceed to torture those of mankind who do not bear the seal of God upon their forehead. After that, he is supposed to seize Satan himself, bind him and toss him into the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

The role of Apollyon in biblical references is ambiguous, sometimes being described as a good angel who serves God, and sometimes also being described as a fallen angel who succumbed to evil.

The word Apollyon and its variations are sometimes used to mean Hell itself (in the Old Testament the name Abaddon is used for the place of the dead). The word Abbadon is also used for Hell in rabbinical literature. Milton, in Paradise Lost, also used the name for the pit itself:

"In all her gates Abbadon rues
Thy bold attempt."
(Paradise Regained, iv 1671)

I miss this Spawn.:(

12-15-2004, 09:12 PM
You'll get over it. :up:

The Spawn
12-16-2004, 07:08 AM

12-17-2004, 04:50 PM
You'll get over it. :up:

Come,on.You know you miss butting heads with him.;)

12-17-2004, 04:52 PM
cool name for a thread

12-17-2004, 04:54 PM
Come,on.You know you miss butting heads with him.;)

I miss him..........I really do..he was abrasive, and knowledgeble, and a total jerk, but I miss him.:(

12-17-2004, 05:37 PM

Is that when the old Spawn is coming back?

12-18-2004, 04:36 AM
Come,on.You know you miss butting heads with him.;)

Meh, he's about the only person here that can give me a decent arguement. :up:

The Spawn
12-18-2004, 07:44 AM

The possibility of human cloning, raised when Scottish scientists at Roslin Institute created the much-celebrated sheep "Dolly" (Nature 385, 810-13, 1997), aroused worldwide interest and concern because of its scientific and ethical implications. The feat, cited by Science magazine as the breakthrough of 1997, also generated uncertainty over the meaning of "cloning" --an umbrella term traditionally used by scientists to describe different processes for duplicating biological material.

What is cloning? Are there different types of cloning?
When the media report on cloning in the news, they are usually talking about only one type called reproductive cloning. There are different types of cloning however, and cloning technologies can be used for other purposes besides producing the genetic twin of another organism. A basic understanding of the different types of cloning is key to taking an informed stance on current public policy issues and making the best possible personal decisions. The following three types of cloning technologies will be discussed: (1) recombinant DNA technology or DNA cloning, (2) reproductive cloning, and (3) therapeutic cloning.

Recombinant DNA Technology or DNA Cloning

The terms "recombinant DNA technology," "DNA cloning," "molecular cloning,"or "gene cloning" all refer to the same process: the transfer of a DNA fragment of interest from one organism to a self-replicating genetic element such as a bacterial plasmid. The DNA of interest can then be propagated in a foreign host cell. This technology has been around since the 1970s, and it has become a common practice in molecular biology labs today.

Scientists studying a particular gene often use bacterial plasmids to generate multiple copies of the same gene. Plasmids are self-replicating extra-chromosomal circular DNA molecules, distinct from the normal bacterial genome (see image to the right). Plasmids and other types of cloning vectors are used by Human Genome Project researchers to copy genes and other pieces of chromosomes to generate enough identical material for further study.

To "clone a gene," a DNA fragment containing the gene of interest is isolated from chromosomal DNA using restriction enzymes and then united with a plasmid that has been cut with the same restriction enzymes. When the fragment of chromosomal DNA is joined with its cloning vector in the lab, it is called a "recombinant DNA molecule." Following introduction into suitable host cells, the recombinant DNA can then be reproduced along with the host cell DNA. See a diagram depicting this process.

Plasmids can carry up to 20,000 bp of foreign DNA. Besides bacterial plasmids, some other cloning vectors include viruses, bacteria artificial chromosomes (BACs), and yeast artificial chromosomes (YACs). Cosmids are artificially constructed cloning vectors that carry up to 45 kb of foreign DNA and can be packaged in lambda phage particles for infection into E. coli cells. BACs utilize the naturally occurring F-factor plasmid found in E. coli to carry 100 to 300 kb DNA inserts. A YAC is a functional chromosome derived from yeast that can carry up to 1 MB of foreign DNA. Bacteria are most often used as the host cells for recombinant DNA molecules, but yeast and mammalian cells also are used.

Reproductive Cloning

Celebrity Sheep Has Died at Age 6

Dolly, the first mammal to be cloned from adult DNA, was put down by lethal injection Feb. 14, 2003. Prior to her death, Dolly had been suffering from lung cancer and crippling arthritis. Although most Finn Dorset sheep live to be 11 to 12 years of age, postmortem examination of Dolly seemed to indicate that, other than her cancer and arthritis, she appeared to be quite normal. The unnamed sheep from which Dolly was cloned had died several years prior to her creation. Dolly was a mother to six lambs, bred the old-fashioned way.

Image credit: Roslin Institute Image Library, http://www.roslin.ac.uk/imagelibrary/

Reproductive cloning is a technology used to generate an animal that has the same nuclear DNA as another currently or previously existing animal. Dolly was created by reproductive cloning technology. In a process called "somatic cell nuclear transfer" (SCNT), scientists transfer genetic material from the nucleus of a donor adult cell to an egg whose nucleus, and thus its genetic material, has been removed. The reconstructed egg containing the DNA from a donor cell must be treated with chemicals or electric current in order to stimulate cell division. Once the cloned embryo reaches a suitable stage, it is transferred to the uterus of a female host where it continues to develop until birth.

Dolly or any other animal created using nuclear transfer technology is not truly an identical clone of the donor animal. Only the clone's chromosomal or nuclear DNA is the same as the donor. Some of the clone's genetic materials come from the mitochondria in the cytoplasm of the enucleated egg. Mitochondria, which are organelles that serve as power sources to the cell, contain their own short segments of DNA. Acquired mutations in mitochondrial DNA are believed to play an important role in the aging process.

Dolly's success is truly remarkable because it proved that the genetic material from a specialized adult cell, such as an udder cell programmed to express only those genes needed by udder cells, could be reprogrammed to generate an entire new organism. Before this demonstration, scientists believed that once a cell became specialized as a liver, heart, udder, bone, or any other type of cell, the change was permanent and other unneeded genes in the cell would become inactive. Some scientists believe that errors or incompleteness in the reprogramming process cause the high rates of death, deformity, and disability observed among animal clones.

Therapeutic Cloning

Therapeutic cloning, also called "embryo cloning," is the production of human embryos for use in research. The goal of this process is not to create cloned human beings, but rather to harvest stem cells that can be used to study human development and to treat disease. Stem cells are important to biomedical researchers because they can be used to generate virtually any type of specialized cell in the human body. Stem cells are extracted from the egg after it has divided for 5 days. The egg at this stage of development is called a blastocyst. The extraction process destroys the embryo, which raises a variety of ethical concerns. Many researchers hope that one day stem cells can be used to serve as replacement cells to treat heart disease, Alzheimer's, cancer, and other diseases. See more on the potential use of cloning in organ transplants.

In November 2001, scientists from Advanced Cell Technologies (ACT), a biotechnology company in Massachusetts, announced that they had cloned the first human embryos for the purpose of advancing therapeutic research. To do this, they collected eggs from women's ovaries and then removed the genetic material from these eggs with a needle less than 2/10,000th of an inch wide. A skin cell was inserted inside the enucleated egg to serve as a new nucleus. The egg began to divide after it was stimulated with a chemical called ionomycin. The results were limited in success. Although this process was carried out with eight eggs, only three began dividing, and only one was able to divide into six cells before stopping.

How can cloning technologies be used?
Recombinant DNA technology is important for learning about other related technologies, such as gene therapy, genetic engineering of organisms, and sequencing genomes. Gene therapy can be used to treat certain genetic conditions by introducing virus vectors that carry corrected copies of faulty genes into the cells of a host organism. Genes from different organisms that improve taste and nutritional value or provide resistance to particular types of disease can be used to genetically engineer food crops. See Genetically Modified Foods and Organisms for more information. With genome sequencing, fragments of chromosomal DNA must be inserted into different cloning vectors to generate fragments of an appropriate size for sequencing. See a diagram on constructing clones for sequencing.

If the low success rates can be improved (Dolly was only one success out of 276 tries), reproductive cloning can be used to develop efficient ways to reliably reproduce animals with special qualities. For example, drug-producing animals or animals that have been genetically altered to serve as models for studying human disease could be mass-produced.

Reproductive cloning also could be used to repopulate endangered animals or animals that are difficult to breed. In 2001, the first clone of an endangered wild animal was born, a wild ox called a gaur. The young gaur died from an infection about 48 hours after its birth. In 2001, scientists in Italy reported the successful cloning of a healthy baby mouflon, an endangered wild sheep. The cloned mouflon is living at a wildlife center in Sardinia. Other endangered species that are potential candidates for cloning include the African bongo antelope, the Sumatran tiger, and the giant panda. Cloning extinct animals presents a much greater challenge to scientists because the egg and the surrogate needed to create the cloned embryo would be of a species different from the clone.

Therapeutic cloning technology may some day be used in humans to produce whole organs from single cells or to produce healthy cells that can replace damaged cells in degenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's or Parkinson's. Much work still needs to be done before therapeutic cloning can become a realistic option for the treatment of disorders.

What animals have been cloned?
Scientists have been cloning animals for many years. In 1952, the first animal, a tadpole, was cloned. Before the creation of Dolly, the first mammal cloned from the cell of an adult animal, clones were created from embryonic cells. Since Dolly, researchers have cloned a number of large and small animals including sheep, goats, cows, mice, pigs, cats, rabbits, and a gaur. See Cloned Animals below. All these clones were created using nuclear transfer technology.

Hundreds of cloned animals exist today, but the number of different species is limited. Attempts at cloning certain species such as monkeys, chickens, horses, and dogs, have been unsuccessful. Some species may be more resistant to somatic cell nuclear transfer than others. The process of stripping the nucleus from an egg cell and replacing it with the nucleus of a donor cell is a traumatic one, and improvements in cloning technologies may be needed before many species can be cloned successfully.

Can organs be cloned for use in transplants?
Scientists hope that one day therapeutic cloning can be used to generate tissues and organs for transplants. To do this, DNA would be extracted from the person in need of a transplant and inserted into an enucleated egg. After the egg containing the patient's DNA starts to divide, embryonic stem cells that can be transformed into any type of tissue would be harvested. The stem cells would be used to generate an organ or tissue that is a genetic match to the recipient. In theory, the cloned organ could then be transplanted into the patient without the risk of tissue rejection. If organs could be generated from cloned human embryos, the need for organ donation could be significantly reduced.

Many challenges must be overcome before "cloned organ" transplants become reality. More effective technologies for creating human embryos, harvesting stem cells, and producing organs from stem cells would have to be developed. In 2001, scientists with the biotechnology company Advanced Cell Technology (ACT) reported that they had cloned the first human embryos; however, the only embryo to survive the cloning process stopped developing after dividing into six cells. In February 2002, scientists with the same biotech company reported that they had successfully transplanted kidney-like organs into cows. The team of researchers created a cloned cow embryo by removing the DNA from an egg cell and then injecting the DNA from the skin cell of the donor cow's ear. Since little is known about manipulating embryonic stem cells from cows, the scientists let the cloned embryos develop into fetuses. The scientists then harvested fetal tissue from the clones and transplanted it into the donor cow. In the three months of observation following the transplant, no sign of immune rejection was observed in the transplant recipient.

Another potential application of cloning to organ transplants is the creation of genetically modified pigs from which organs suitable for human transplants could be harvested . The transplant of organs and tissues from animals to humans is called xenotransplantation.

Why pigs? Primates would be a closer match genetically to humans, but they are more difficult to clone and have a much lower rate of reproduction. Of the animal species that have been cloned successfully, pig tissues and organs are more similar to those of humans. To create a "knock-out" pig, scientists must inactivate the genes that cause the human immune system to reject an implanted pig organ. The genes are knocked out in individual cells, which are then used to create clones from which organs can be harvested. In 2002, a British biotechnology company reported that it was the first to produce "double knock-out" pigs that have been genetically engineered to lack both copies of a gene involved in transplant rejection. More research is needed to study the transplantation of organs from "knock-out" pigs to other animals.

What are the risks of cloning?
Reproductive cloning is expensive and highly inefficient. More than 90% of cloning attempts fail to produce viable offspring. More than 100 nuclear transfer procedures could be required to produce one viable clone. In addition to low success rates, cloned animals tend to have more compromised immune function and higher rates of infection, tumor growth, and other disorders. Japanese studies have shown that cloned mice live in poor health and die early. About a third of the cloned calves born alive have died young, and many of them were abnormally large. Many cloned animals have not lived long enough to generate good data about how clones age. Appearing healthy at a young age unfortunately is not a good indicator of long term survival. Clones have been known to die mysteriously. For example, Australia's first cloned sheep appeared healthy and energetic on the day she died, and the results from her autopsy failed to determine a cause of death.

In 2002, researchers at the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research in Cambridge, Massachusetts, reported that the genomes of cloned mice are compromised. In analyzing more than 10,000 liver and placenta cells of cloned mice, they discovered that about 4% of genes function abnormally. The abnormalities do not arise from mutations in the genes but from changes in the normal activation or expression of certain genes.

Problems also may result from programming errors in the genetic material from a donor cell. When an embryo is created from the union of a sperm and an egg, the embryo receives copies of most genes from both parents. A process called "imprinting" chemically marks the DNA from the mother and father so that only one copy of a gene (either the maternal or paternal gene) is turned on. Defects in the genetic imprint of DNA from a single donor cell may lead to some of the developmental abnormalities of cloned embryos.

For more details on the risks associated with cloning, see the Cloning Problems links below.

Should humans be cloned?
Physicians from the American Medical Association and scientists with the American Association for the Advancement of Science have issued formal public statements advising against human reproductive cloning. Currently, the U.S. Congress is considering the passage of legislation that could ban human cloning. See the Policy and Legislation links below.

Due to the inefficiency of animal cloning (only about 1 or 2 viable offspring for every 100 experiments) and the lack of understanding about reproductive cloning, many scientists and physicians strongly believe that it would be unethical to attempt to clone humans. Not only do most attempts to clone mammals fail, about 30% of clones born alive are affected with "large offspring syndrome" and other debilitating conditions. Several cloned animals have died prematurely from infections and other complications. The same problems would be expected in human cloning. In addition, scientists do not know how cloning could impact mental development. While factors such as intellect and mood may not be as important for a cow or a mouse, they are crucial for the development of healthy humans. With so many unknowns concerning reproductive cloning, the attempt to clone humans at this time is considered potentially dangerous and ethically irresponsible.

12-22-2004, 12:38 AM
Do they still make Tommy guns?

The Spawn
12-23-2004, 04:28 PM
Yes, just like they still make type writers.

12-23-2004, 04:35 PM
So, I can buy a brand new Tommy gun off the internet or at a gun store?

The Spawn
12-23-2004, 04:36 PM

12-23-2004, 05:19 PM
Spawn, what's that song Mariah Carrey sampled for "Fantasy"?

The Spawn
12-23-2004, 05:24 PM

12-23-2004, 05:34 PM
"Genius Of Love" by The Tom Tom Club.:up:

The Spawn
12-23-2004, 05:41 PM
What a funny name for a band.

12-23-2004, 08:48 PM
Yes, just like they still make type writers.

Why the **** would they do that? They don't make vinyl or 8 tracks anymore. :o

12-23-2004, 09:08 PM
I miss this Spawn.:(
they're all the same...:confused::o

The Spawn
12-24-2004, 09:11 AM
They still make 8 tracks....'they' is an underground group though.

The Spawn
12-24-2004, 09:12 AM
Techincally, we are the same...we've both been The Spawn.

The Spawn
12-28-2004, 12:25 PM
http://web.ask.com/redir?bpg=http%3a%2f%2fweb.ask.com%2fweb%3fq%3ddo% 2byou%2bhave%2bany%2bghost%2bpictures%26o%3d0%26pa ge%3d1&q=do+you+have+any+ghost+pictures&u=http%3a%2f%2ftm.wc.ask.com%2fr%3ft%3dan%26s%3da% 26uid%3d08CF8760B80B91D14%26sid%3d18AAF760B80B91D1 4%26qid%3dC58EFC45AA7755468EF717353F0B93FB%26io%3d 3%26sv%3dza5cb0db2%26o%3d0%26ask%3ddo%2byou%2bhave %2bany%2bghost%2bpictures%26uip%3d98a3644a%26en%3d te%26eo%3d-100%26pt%3dGhoststudy%2bPhoto%2bGallery!%26ac%3d17 %26qs%3d0%26pg%3d1%26ep%3d1%26te_par%3d102%26te_id %3d%26u%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.ghoststudy.com%2fgaller y.html&s=a&bu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ghoststudy.com%2fgallery.html&qte=0&o=0&abs=...ghosts%2c+paranormal%2c+ghost%2c+spirit%2c+ haunted%2c+supernatural%2c+stories%2c+orbs%2c+psyc hic%2c+Ouija%2c+pictures%2c+pics%2c+photos+&tit=Ghoststudy+Photo+Gallery!&bin=a820b59ef3b608f231ff3038cbedf069%26s%3d3421571 218&cat=wp&purl=http%3a%2f%2ftm.wc.ask.com%2fi%2fb.html%3ft%3 dan%26s%3da%26uid%3d08CF8760B80B91D14%26sid%3d18AA F760B80B91D14%26qid%3dC58EFC45AA7755468EF717353F0B 93FB%26io%3d%26sv%3dza5cb0db2%26o%3d0%26ask%3ddo%2 byou%2bhave%2bany%2bghost%2bpictures%26uip%3d98a36 44a%26en%3dbm%26eo%3d-100%26pt%3d%26ac%3d24%26qs%3d0%26pg%3d1%26u%3dhttp %3a%2f%2fmyjeeves.ask.com%2faction%2fsnip&Complete=1

The Spawn
01-12-2005, 04:47 PM
Faustian Society

When we examine the characteristics of contemporary societies that have been described in previous pages, we find that much of it comes down to a few essential ideas. These societies are part of a new civilization and a new period in history, which can be referred to as Faustian (with apologies to Spengler) because of its quest for power.

At its core, this new Faustian age and civilization believes in the self and the self's right and ability to control the conditions of its own existence. It exalts reason, but it is practical or "instrumental" reason, which is seen as a tool that humanity can use to manipulate the world.

Faustian society includes at least four elements that define the individual's changing relationship to the world of limitation:

* It uses science and technology to overcome the limits of the physical world.

* It brings together high technology and art to create simulations that can be used as substitutes for what can't be extracted from the physical world. The most important of these simulations are imitation realities, which provide people with experiences not available in the rest of life.

* It adheres to an aesthetic philosophy, which sees the acting out of fantasies that express our fears and desires, as a form of art, entertainment and liberation.

* It views matter, life, culture and mind as deceptive appearances, which makes them simulations or something similar to simulations.

In addition, Faustian societies are characterized by the pervasive use of deceptive simulations to manipulate large numbers of people.

Put in terms that were first referred to on an earlier page, Faustian society is using the powers of rationality and the ego - of logic, science and technology -- to build a perfect world that answers to our desires. The goal is to create a new kind of person: a sovereign self, in control of its environment, including its own biology and mind.

In order to achieve this goal, it is trying to make the world as transparent as possible, so everything can be seen and understood. It wants to hold all existence up to an x-ray, because what is known can be controlled. This effort to bring about transparency and control, or knowledge and power, in the service of real human needs and boundless human desires, summarizes much of what Faustian society is about.

We can see intimations of the world as Faustian society would re-create it in today's simulated and automated environments and in some of the images of life conveyed by television and movies. These are early efforts to build and portray perfect worlds and perfect selves in which nothing is left to chance.

But we can also see in some of these same simulations, portrayals of the dangers that Faustian society poses to our relation to the world of limitation, including the danger that we might lose interest in "reality"; devalue it; undermine it, or lose the ability to distinguish reality from illusion.

Faustian society is already the dominant force in the contemporary world. Its power centers are the high-technology urban areas of America, particularly in the Northeast and West Coast, and the urban centers of Western Europe and Japan. The world's business, scientific and cultural "elites," many of whom live in these regions, are its creators, administrators and exemplars. They have enormous power to shape its culture, in the near-term. When seen from a broader perspective, they begin to look like the vehicles of humanity's desire to bring about a perfect world, as they produce forms of technology and representation that answer to their audience's needs and desires.

But many groups and regions haven't made the transition to this new kind of society; others are in opposition to it. In particular, what remains of the world's religious traditionalists, have been engaged in a reaction against many (although not all) of these changes. Despite their considerable differences with each other, all view the world as the work of a creator, who imposed not only material conditions on existence, but a moral code that limits thought and action, and subordinates creature to creator. All see themselves as defending religion, traditional culture and morality against the secularism, the moral and cultural relativism, and the philosophy of the self, fantasy, pleasure, transgression and cultural experimentation of Faustian society.

The creations of popular entertainment have foreseen the emergence of Faustian societies. They routinely portray humanity gaining power over both the material world and worlds of illusion. And they frequently examine the potential for good and evil in these new powers.

The movie Matinee, for example, which is about Key West during the Cuban missile crisis, portrays all the elements described above: the effort to use technology in the quest for power; the bringing together of art and technology to create advanced simulations that allow audiences to act out fantasies in which they overcome dangers; the use of simulations to deceive; and the social constructionist effort to expose culture and ideology as illusions that are used to manipulate and mystify people. The movie's creators put all this in because they are tapping in to the issues and anxieties of the age.

Some of these works of popular culture, especially science fiction, also provide information about the kind of ethic that can help us live in this new kind of society. Much of their message comes down to this: the new Faustian societies provide a great many opportunities. But they also create dead ends and traps that are disguised as forms of progress. If we want to use technology correctly, and not be destroyed by it, our wisdom will have to keep up with our power. This theme is particularly evident in the original Star Trek, which repeatedly warns that there is a danger in trying to find shortcuts to power or trying to achieve false paradise.

A similar philosophy can be teased out of Freudian theory. Using psychoanalytic ideas, we can see that, in addition to the limits of the physical world, there is another set of limits we have to confront, namely the limits of our own personalities: our narcissism, primitive emotions and lack of ethical development. These are the most important obstacles we have to overcome, if we want to appropriately use these new technologies.

There are two philosophies, in particular, that emerged out of psychoanalytic theory, that we can use to construct a coherent philosophy for a new age. One comes out of the work of the utopian philosopher Herbert Marcuse, who asked how the new power and affluence made possible by technology would be used. As Marcuse saw it, it could be used to satisfy true or false needs, making possible exploitation and escape, or a breakthrough into a new kind of society, based on the right to live fully.

But Marcuse's ideas of what it means to live fully are somewhat limited. They can be enlarged by the ideas of the humanistic psychologist Abraham Maslow, who believed that we can develop into our true selves, which are inherently ethical, psychologically healthy and constructive. Like Marcuse, Maslow believed we can judge society by the degree to which it helps us grow in this direction.

If you put the ideas of Freud, Maslow and Marcuse together, they lead to the conclusion that the true self has existed throughout history, and it has been "waiting" to be released from the prison created by our primitive psychodynamics, distorted cultures and oppressive social conditions. This true self isn't an entity inside the mind, that is hidden by the mask of a false self. It is the full person we become when these numerous interferences are eliminated. It is willing to speak, hear and seek the truth about itself and society, without fleeing into the regressive symptoms offered by personal neurosis and popular culture. It is assertive, not aggressive; focused on living fully rather than on shoring up constantly-collapsing psychological defenses; it is able to love and work, and take pleasure and responsibility. It affirms life and compassion over hate and revenge.

When people experience this state of higher functioning, to one degree or another, in their better moments or, in some instances, throughout much of their lives, we see in them an essential characteristic: they don't only feel good, about themselves and life, they also spontaneously do good. They have an inherent, aesthetic revulsion to anything that would do physical or symbolic violence to themselves or others.

To the extent we are our true selves, we have a deep revulsion to the culture of manipulation, and everything in us tells us not to become one of its practitioners. And we see the regressive radicalism offered by much of popular culture as a lure. All those forbidden fantasies are forms of regression that lead us away from our true selves.

Like language, the potential to become our selves is inherent in us, but it has to be evoked by culture, to come to even partial realization. It is always there, as a part of our makeup, mixed in with, and limited by, other elements of personality and culture.

Contrary to what some postmodernists claim, this self isn't a collection of roles or a story under constant revision, although, as we have seen, personality and culture do contain a significant degree of disguise. Instead, it is a single entity, with capacities when it comes to language, thinking, emotion, psychodynamics, morality and personal fulfillment that are individual instances of a universal human nature. Since we all partake of this human nature, we all share the same capacities for good and ill, health and neurosis, no matter what "roles" we play or how technology expands our powers.

With this in mind, we can now ask a set of questions that represent one of the essential issues of our age: which aspect of the self will be evoked by the cultures and societies of the 21st century, with their artificial environments, pervasive computers, technologies of power and virtual realities? Which desires will be served by our new abilities: our primitive urges or our aspirations for true fulfillment? Will these powers serve the goal of freedom or will our ability to overcome many of the limits of the world allow us to turn the world itself into a vast arena for acting out the limitations of personality?

Seen in this light, the issue of the age (and every age) is whether we will we use our powers to encourage the development of true or false selves, and seek after a true or false idea of a better world. These are the issues that are being acted out in all the spectacles of art and technology described in the book. In Disney; in advertisements; in the mind-numbing simulation-work of politicians, and in innumerable other creations of culture, we see a quest after misleading images of the perfect self, and of false paradise. Other works, such as apparently modest comedies like Groundhog Day and Uncle Buck, about people who overcome fear and anger and some of their false desires, to become something they already were, are efforts to get at the truth of the self.

We can build strong and healthy people without deep and profound knowledge of the truths of personality, society and culture, of course. But the insight of modernism and Western civilization, that truth liberates, is still essential. It tells us that we have the ability to see through the psychodynamics that partly govern everyone, and discover that many (not all) of the limits of life are, in fact, our own invention; they are defenses we create in response to deeply buried fears of real and imagined dangers from childhood, which are not-so-seamlessly woven into personality. And we have the capacity to discover in the environment of technology, art and simulation that makes up contemporary culture, the story of our selves and society, which we are constantly writing in disguised form. A great many of these creations -- individual movies, for example, or theme parks -- are like monads: if we could make them entirely transparent, we would discover that each one contains a large part of the entire story.

If the reader will forgive a final hyperbole, mostly stolen from Northrop Frye's discussion of James Joyce (with Hegel looming somewhere ominously in the background): only after humanity has seen through the illusions of the self and society can it wake up from the dream of history and recognize its own role as the dreamer. Then society and culture appear as objectified and alienated parts of ourselves. The new self that has the potential to be born from this exercise in clarity can consciously create a society and culture that expresses the fullness of life, rather than the yearning for, and flight from, itself.

We can begin this effort at self-knowledge by recognizing that we are ascending a ladder of invention and discovery that has always been there, waiting to be climbed. This ladder of progress is built in to the universe. It is an element of the world, of which we are only a part.

The ladder has two arms. One is made up of our growing power to use science and technology to control the physical world. The other is made up our ability to grow as people. We will need both if we want to make our great ascent.

01-12-2005, 09:37 PM
What will deflect bullets?

The Spawn
01-13-2005, 11:01 AM

The Kingpin
01-13-2005, 02:38 PM
Spawn, the thread's dead. Quit reviving it.

The Spawn
01-13-2005, 04:17 PM
Nothing dies...not even death.

The Kingpin
01-13-2005, 07:08 PM
Are you talking about death itself or the human soul?

01-14-2005, 06:20 PM
Spawn, have you read any Stephen Hunter novels?

The Spawn
01-15-2005, 08:43 AM
Death itself.

Never read any of them...I'm at the library as we speak and shall see if I can find anything.

The Kingpin
01-15-2005, 07:07 PM
With techology growing as it is, that may not be true anymore.

01-15-2005, 11:56 PM
Will titanium deflect bullets?

The Spawn
01-18-2005, 04:58 PM
There's deflecting...and then theres stopping...

The Kingpin
01-18-2005, 06:49 PM
He means the latter...

The Spawn
01-18-2005, 06:56 PM
The answer is yes then...I'm gonna do an overhaul on this thread in a few days just to let you guys know.

01-18-2005, 07:35 PM
Did you check out any Stephen Hunter novels?

The Spawn
01-20-2005, 10:52 AM
Didn't have any

01-20-2005, 11:07 PM
I heard one of his novels has a super long-ass sniper duel, which was Kojima's inspiration for Snake vs. The End. That's the one I want to read.

01-20-2005, 11:15 PM
What would someone have around their home that could possibly deflect bullets?

The Spawn
01-21-2005, 07:13 AM
A frying pan.

The Kingpin
01-21-2005, 04:01 PM
Spawn, read any manga?

The Spawn
01-21-2005, 04:26 PM
I haven't been able to read much...been moving around the globe constantly. I have a friend who reads Preist and loves that...you can ask me about any anime. Mangas I can't sit through and read them the way they were meant to...right to left, you know what I mean.

The Kingpin
01-21-2005, 04:45 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean, I'm the same way. I read manga occasionally, like Yu Yu Hakusho. I like subbed animes the most. Not censored or anything of that American crap.

The Spawn
01-21-2005, 04:47 PM
I've recorded tons of anime, by Animerica, etc. Only DVD I have is GunGrave and a few promotional things Geneon has given me. I'll see if I can go to Japan tomorrow before the snow sets in the east coast over Jersey and pick up some more animes. Adult Swim is srewing me over with their times...

The Kingpin
01-21-2005, 05:32 PM
I hate AS with their times, but I also love them. I hope they get their own channel. If you really do go to Japan, pick me up a PSP? I'll pay you the money. Seriously.

The Spawn
01-21-2005, 05:49 PM
If I can get out of the country I will...but I'm 100% sure something will get in the way of that.

01-22-2005, 12:17 AM
Spawn, have you seen Ninja Scroll? I'm not big on Anime, but I saw a special edition DVD and wanted to buy it. It looked badass.

The Spawn
01-22-2005, 08:52 AM
About two years ago we were in the mall...three of us, and it was, what was his name...Steven...it was Stevens birthday and he wanted an anime dvd for his birthday, but nothing with nudity in it or sex, since his little sister would be watching it. So Frank bought him Ninja Scroll...3 minutes into the movie, there was a tentacle rape scence, and a lot of nudity. That is Ninja Scroll.