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Picard Sisko 07-17-2013 04:05 PM

Ultimate Spider-Man
 
I started re-reading Ultimate Spider-Man from the very beginning, and I have to say, I am very pleased. I really forgot how good this series is. It takes some of the best concepts introduced by Stan Lee and co. decades prior and modernized them to fit today's standards. It shows you how timeless Spider-Man really is.

I don't understand why fans hate it so much. Right now I am at issue #39, and absolutely love it. 9.5/10

The Joker 07-17-2013 05:35 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Up until the Carnage arc I'd have given it a 4/5 overall.

After that the title went rapidly downhill. So I'd give it around a 2/5 in total.

Picard Sisko 07-17-2013 05:38 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
When did the Carnage arc come in?

UltimateWebhead 07-17-2013 07:35 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
When the Ultimate comics line started in the early 2000s I was out of the loop with comics and so I missed the chance to read this series at start-up. Prior to that, I had read various stories from the Amazing Spider-man line, Spectacular Spider-man, and some other stories here and there. I lost interest after awhile and didn't get back into the mix until after SM2. When I did find myself reading again I was put off by the concerns/negativity surrounding the Ultimate comics in general so I never read them. It wasn't until I received some inspiration from some members on this board actually, that I started reading this series. All I can say is I am very glad.

First off, Bendis and Bagley work really well together and I find that Bagley's art is just beautiful. He totally morphed his art style for this series from the past works he had done for Spider-man. It should also be noted that Bendis and Bagley worked together on Ultimate Spider-man for somewhere around 110 issues and I think they still hold the record for the amount of issues by a pair in a row. That kind of consistency is rare in comics and part of the reason I think this series was so successful and well-liked.

I think a lot of the criticisms come from the fact that they reimagined the world of Peter Parker and made changes to the roles of other characters, MJ and Gwen for example, and also made significant character/design changes to the villains. The basic story is there and I like how it's presented...the key elements remain, i.e. Uncle Ben's death, etc. and I like how Bendis took his time with the origin. I also found the clone saga in the Ultimate series to be better than the saga in 616. But back to the criticisms. Let's take the Green Goblin. This is a much different interpretation than what we got with 616 but I don't necessarily think it is bad. I'm not advocating that Ultimate GG is a great thing or that it's better than 616, because it isn't quite frankly, however this version suits the universe created by Bendis. The Ultimate universe imo is a much harsher, more dangerous world than that of the 616 and its villains need to fit that mold. The way I look at it is this...the 616 Spider-man will always be there no matter what, I can always go back and re-read those stories and enjoy them. Those stories hold a special place for me but imo there's nothing wrong with liking another take or interpretation of the characters. I certainly don't mind that they made changes throughout the stories and there were definitely some surprising twists that I really liked. Others not so much. I think Joker was right about the Carnage arc and was my biggest wtf moment of reading these stories...I won't say much more Picard cause I don't want to spoil you but brace yourself, lol.

All in all I thought the Ultimate Spider-man was a really good read. I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would based on the many critisicms I have heard over the years. It's a shame that I didn't read this sooner is my only regret and it kinda sucks that they killed off PP when he was in his prime. It was awesome though that Bagley returned for the final issue. I am so glad they opted to make this series something different and unique...another rehash of the material would have been a drag imo...I mean, Spider-man Chapter One...yeah, that was dreadful.

Picard Sisko 07-17-2013 07:43 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Great review, man! Its too bad about Carnage, but I'll see how I react when I get there. Still have a while to go before then. Maybe, just MAYBE they will bring back Peter Parker in the Ultimate Universe.

The issue I have now is... everything with Peter Parker kind of feels like its all for nothing. In the early USM issues, we have Nick Fury telling Peter how he is going to do big things one day, and he can work for SHIELD and so on.

The Joker 07-17-2013 08:41 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko (Post 26379169)
When did the Carnage arc come in?

Issue 60.

Picard Sisko 07-18-2013 11:14 AM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Does USM get any better afterwards, or does it all just go downhill from there?

THUNDERSTRIKE 07-18-2013 11:28 AM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
iMho, the entire run of Bendis and Bagley was classic and worked for me... after Bagley left and with Morales coming in later is up to you...

The Joker 07-18-2013 11:35 AM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko (Post 26384413)
Does USM get any better afterwards, or does it all just go downhill from there?

In my opinion it never gets back to the quality it was pre Carnage arc. But you may feel differently yourself.

Vid Electricz 07-18-2013 11:37 AM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko (Post 26384413)
Does USM get any better afterwards, or does it all just go downhill from there?


Downhill. Way downhill. I loved the series up until issues #50 or so.

It just got tiresome and redundant after that point. The "changes" and "updates" became few and far between, becoming less a "modern adaptation" and more reliant on the classic 616 designs and characters (Morbius, DeadPool, etc...). Particularly, I was put off by Bendis' stubborn refusal to allow Peter (or any of the rest of the characters) to grow or develop in any way.

Themanofbat 07-18-2013 02:00 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
There should be a 0/5 option for some of us... :cmad:

:csad:

Picard Sisko 07-18-2013 02:25 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Themanofbat (Post 26386169)
There should be a 0/5 option for some of us... :cmad:

:csad:

I mean... its your opinion, but... 0/5 rating? OUCH.

The Squirrel 07-19-2013 03:15 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
I have the entire Ultimate Peter Parker run collected in trades. I love the series. It was my entry into the comic book world. I think it will probably remain my favorite series for a long time.

Picard Sisko 07-20-2013 01:21 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Did anyone like the Ultimate Spider-Man game? I thought it was actually really well done, and still holds up today... even more than Spider-Man 2: The Game for PS2.

THUNDERSTRIKE 07-20-2013 01:53 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Themanofbat (Post 26386169)
There should be a 0/5 option for some of us... :cmad:

:csad:

wow, are you serious?!?...

Dan Ketch 07-24-2013 02:00 AM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Ultimate Spider-Man to this day is a great series. Some story arcs are better than others but overall it's still one of the best books Marvel publishes.

Will Nolte 07-24-2013 08:34 AM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by THUNDERSTRIKE (Post 26384519)
iMho, the entire run of Bendis and Bagley was classic and worked for me... after Bagley left and with Morales coming in later is up to you...

agreed, though I am biased, being the Bagley fanboy of this board...

Themanofbat 07-24-2013 09:03 AM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by THUNDERSTRIKE (Post 26406225)
wow, are you serious?!?...

Yeah... I've had some classic "anti-Ultimate" rants in the early days of the Hype...

I didn't like the concept...

:yay:

UltimateWebhead 07-24-2013 12:55 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Themanofbat (Post 26451581)
Yeah... I've had some classic "anti-Ultimate" rants in the early days of the Hype...

I didn't like the concept...

:yay:

You were against the Ultimate series prior to its release and/or at the time of the release. Out of respectful curiosity--How much have you read from this series? And after reading however much it was that you've read you'd still give it a zero score? You didn't find at least one redeemable quality?

Themanofbat 07-24-2013 02:37 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
I don't want to get into it, but I didn't like the idea of "retelling" the stories about a Peter Parker, who in my mind, was NOT the Peter Parker I knew and grew up with... so in my mind, if this was NOT Peter Parker, then it wasn't really Spider-Man... and it seemed like a waste of my time to be reading the adventures of a "photocopied" or "facsimile" of a beloved childhood character.

In any event, while I was away from comics circa 2000, I had no idea that this Universe was coming, but once I knew about it, I didn't like the idea... if you were going to put all this "top talent" on books to simply tell stories that didn't hinder on continuity, then why couldn't said "top talent" try a little harder to work with the main books and make better stories with these characters within their rich histories? It all seemed very lazy to me...

I've read the first few trades (borrowed copies)... and it never struck my fancy... and I've kept up with an issue here and there, and maintained an eye on solits to see what was coming... and I read on-line reviews, so it's not like I'm ignorant of the books... but they were never my cup of tea, and I've never seen their purpose... aside from getting in new readers... whether that actually happened or not... who knows?

Hope this helps...

UltimateWebhead 07-24-2013 06:20 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Themanofbat (Post 26453897)
I don't want to get into it, but I didn't like the idea of "retelling" the stories about a Peter Parker, who in my mind, was NOT the Peter Parker I knew and grew up with... so in my mind, if this was NOT Peter Parker, then it wasn't really Spider-Man... and it seemed like a waste of my time to be reading the adventures of a "photocopied" or "facsimile" of a beloved childhood character.

In any event, while I was away from comics circa 2000, I had no idea that this Universe was coming, but once I knew about it, I didn't like the idea... if you were going to put all this "top talent" on books to simply tell stories that didn't hinder on continuity, then why couldn't said "top talent" try a little harder to work with the main books and make better stories with these characters within their rich histories? It all seemed very lazy to me...

I've read the first few trades (borrowed copies)... and it never struck my fancy... and I've kept up with an issue here and there, and maintained an eye on solits to see what was coming... and I read on-line reviews, so it's not like I'm ignorant of the books... but they were never my cup of tea, and I've never seen their purpose... aside from getting in new readers... whether that actually happened or not... who knows?

Hope this helps...

Thanks for sharing and :up: to the bolded part.

Picard Sisko 07-25-2013 11:22 AM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Themanofbat (Post 26453897)
I don't want to get into it, but I didn't like the idea of "retelling" the stories about a Peter Parker, who in my mind, was NOT the Peter Parker I knew and grew up with... so in my mind, if this was NOT Peter Parker, then it wasn't really Spider-Man... and it seemed like a waste of my time to be reading the adventures of a "photocopied" or "facsimile" of a beloved childhood character.

Don't be so closed minded. Ultimate Spider-Man took some of the best elements of classic 616 Spider-Man stories, modernized it, and added a few twists to it. It will still Peter Parker, just in the 21st century.

Quote:

In any event, while I was away from comics circa 2000, I had no idea that this Universe was coming, but once I knew about it, I didn't like the idea... if you were going to put all this "top talent" on books to simply tell stories that didn't hinder on continuity, then why couldn't said "top talent" try a little harder to work with the main books and make better stories with these characters within their rich histories? It all seemed very lazy to me...
It wasn't lazy. They were starting a new universe from scratch so comic books would be more accessible to new readers. If you are a kid looking to get into Marvel comics, and all you had was the 616 universe, where do you begin? There is so much to read! Here they had a chance to start from the beginning and read something more modern and relatable.

Quote:

I've read the first few trades (borrowed copies)... and it never struck my fancy... and I've kept up with an issue here and there, and maintained an eye on solits to see what was coming... and I read on-line reviews, so it's not like I'm ignorant of the books... but they were never my cup of tea, and I've never seen their purpose... aside from getting in new readers... whether that actually happened or not... who knows?
It isn't for everyone, so I understand. But its something that you should really read from the beginning and without missing an issue. But I think giving it a 0/5 is extreme.

Themanofbat 07-25-2013 11:51 AM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko (Post 26461821)
Don't be so closed minded.

Soooooooo... the definition of "close mided" is having an opinion that you don't share nor like? Please.

I am FAR from close minded.
Ask anyone whose known me for the last 12 1/2 years on the Hype.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko (Post 26461821)
Ultimate Spider-Man took some of the best elements of classic 616 Spider-Man stories, modernized it, and added a few twists to it. It will still Peter Parker, just in the 21st century.

Two things...

1) I don't believe they hit all the "best" elements of 616... though that is debatable...

2) I'm sorry... but it just was NOT the Peter Parker I GREW UP WITH... I had NO bond, NO feelings and NO connection with this Peter Parker; therefore, he was NOT the Peter Parker I had grown to love and care for all the years prior... that, IN MY BOOK, does not make him Peter Parker... just a photocopy. No matter how polished the bag looks, but a bag of poop is still poop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko (Post 26461821)
It wasn't lazy. They were starting a new universe from scratch so comic books would be more accessible to new readers. If you are a kid looking to get into Marvel comics, and all you had was the 616 universe, where do you begin? There is so much to read! Here they had a chance to start from the beginning and read something more modern and relatable.

It definitely was lazy... and maybe that also speaks VOLUMES about it's readership...

I have a 14 year old son... he liked both Universes as a kid (if I was so close-minded, I would have barred the Ultimate Universe from his reading list... but oh noes... he liked it and I encouraged him to read what he liked in spite of my own personal tastes), but as time wore on, he himself got out of Ultimate because it was boring (his words) and couldn't compare to the rich tapestry that was the 616 Universe... and lucky him has access to all kinds of trades, MMW's and Essentials to read all the history... and when he doesn't know something, he also has the internet to delve into...

The "poor 21st century" kids excuse is lame... and is more showing as to how lazy modern readers are... kids who got into Marvel in the mid-70's or 80's or even 90's had 15, 25 & 35 years of stuff that they had NO ACCESS to, but comics were thriving because people picked up comics without missing a beat.... good stories about Spider-Man (the REAL one) are just what they are: good stories... if they make you wanna hunt down back issues, then all the more awesome... kids have access to digital back issues and the hard copies (in original or reprinted material).

In MY opinion, the Ultimate Universe merely just spoon fed into the elitist and lazy comic book audience who couldn't be bothered to look things up and learn like the previous generations of comic book readers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko (Post 26461821)
It isn't for everyone, so I understand. But its something that you should really read from the beginning and without missing an issue. But I think giving it a 0/5 is extreme.

I had said I had read the first few trades... 4 or 5 maybe... and I didn't like it.
At WHAT point should I keep on reading until I discover I really like it?

Current issues?

Please.

The Ultimate Universe along with Ultimate Spider-Man was pure garbage and not required reading... hence, the 0/5.

It's my opinion... one that you can clearly disagree with... but please do not disrespect me for having it.

Thanks.

:yay:

Lord 07-25-2013 05:00 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
That's the point with ultimate Spider-Man, a new universe, in fact that's why some of the stories in Ultimate Marvel work so well. They're reinterpretations of what we've already seen, some are good, while others are bad.

You're looking at them in the bad way, they're not there to replace the mainstream Marvel Universe, there's a refreshing thing in starting from the very begining again, you're free to introduce villain and plot points in a very diferent way. You can also say What if stories aren't worth reading,

Either way early Ultimate Marvel stories were mostly great tales, Ultimate Spider-Man was for the most part well written but it still had some problems. The UMU started to really go downhill once they gave Jeph Loeb free reign. After that they spent an year picking what was left and gave some good Ultimate Spider-Man stories.

The stories after death of Spider-man were mostly top-notch, withers like Hickman took previous bad ideas and turned them into great stories, i'm of course speaking of Reed Richards, Bendis turned him evil for no great reason, it was one of the worst turns for a hero considering all he had done and his inability to kill. In Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates Hickman went unrestrained and turned him into an unforgetable villain.

In a way Bendis is the builder and destroyed of the Marvel Universe, he was the main man behind it, yet is also the one holding it back by not letting many years pass, the Ultimate Universe is Basically stuck in 2002 or 2003, the events from Peter becoming Spider-Man to his death Basically took place in a year and a half.

My favorite part of the Ultimate Marvel Universe are The Ultimates, say whatever you want about the avengers there, they are not the characters you were born with, and that's what makes the comic so good, The Ultimates and The Ultimates 2 were amazing, Ultimates 3 by Jeph Loeb was terrible, Ultimate Comics: Avengers was good, and while i haven't been reading them since issue 14, Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates is also a very good comic series.

Elitist marvel fans should look at Ultimate Marvel for what it trully is, instead of thinking of it as a reteling

Themanofbat 07-25-2013 06:32 PM

Re: Ultimate Spider-Man
 
What if stories are fun because they are typically nice "done-in-one" stories... they're may have been a two-parter, but none come to mind... but USM doesn't read as a What If story to me... I get what you're trying to say, but it just didn't work for me... in fact, I preferred reading Spider-Man Adventures moreso than Ultimate Spider-Man...

Just my two cents...

:yay:


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