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-   -   Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=462079)

ElDuderino 07-23-2013 01:50 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Random490 (Post 26443231)
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Superman grew up on a farm, Batman spent years of his life training and learning not just beeing smart but specifically training to become and master
strategist. While superman may have an inherent greater capacity for intelligence gifted to him by evolution he has not shown much interest in learning military tactics. Plus smart people do not always have smart children. He's parents were genetically engineered to be genius', he was not and did not have the same benefits or a kryptonian education. Also if he was really that smart the movie would have ended much sooner.

you think Superman, with the ability to read an entire book in a matter of seconds, spent his entire life just watching the grass grow and skipping rocks?

Superman would have read and learned more in a week than Batman could in a year. There is zero reason to think Superman has less intelligence or less knowledge -- the great weight of reason leads us to the opposite conclusion.

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The major difference here is that Batman is the type of person who would prepare well ahead of time, from the moment he learns of superman's existence he will being formulating a strategy. And will come to metropolis prepared. That just the type of person he is. Superman isn't like that, he wears his heart on his sleeve, is naive, and is over confident because nothing has ever truly hurt him.
A man that can hear and see everything around him is naive? He may have a heart of gold but he is not unaware. No one is more aware of his surroundings, and people's true intentions.

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Or maybe he's only five feat away. Also I hate the people who basically say "Kryptonite is no fair" yeah well using our yellow sun is no fair. Honestly kryptonite is a brilliant idea that should be ignored for being a "cop out" Superman is a character that has never had to really face his own mortality in any real sense, he's gone through life being basically invulnerable, even in man of steel the thought of being kill doesn't enter his mind cause he could take all their punches. But introducing something so simple and so effect that could make him vulnerable and can conceivably kill him by just being around it would have such a profound effect on him.
You know what Batman's kryptonite is?

A bullet. A hammer to the temple. Falling out of a window. Being hit by a car. He could die at any second from a million different causes.

Kryptonite is a cop-out because it wouldn't really work if Superman actually existed. He would see it coming from a mile away. You wouldn't get 5 feet away from him. He'd fly away or blast you into eternity.

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Well then you just don't understand Superman's character if that's the case
That line has actually been written in the comics. But, yeah, it's me who doesn't understand him.

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And the way I picture the fight going is Batman constantly moving using all his stealth, deceit to constantly introduce new tactics that keeps Superman off guard and off balance.
What stealth? He can't hide from Superman.

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Each action hitting him in a way doesn't expect. Using multiple sonic batarangs with ear piercing sounds playing at all different pitches so Superman can't tune it out.
He can tune out sounds.

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Flash explosive with powder that temporarily blinds Superman,
Why would a flash bang blind someone who can shoot fire out of his eyes?

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then several highly powerful and targeted explosions to key points on his body.
Oh no! Not explosives! What ever will he do!?!?!?!?

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All this just to buy enough time for an airdrop of kryptonite to deliver a final blow to know him out.
Ah, yes. There's enough kryptonite just laying around on earth to air drop it from a helicopter. Good one. Does he get it from his kryptonite farms? Maybe it just grows on trees.

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Though Batman wouldn't come through this unscathed, bruised body, broken equipment, dislocated shoulder, and a few cracked ribs. Perhaps cough of some blood to sink in the fact he's lucky to be alive. When asked about he'll give the classic line "I'll live"
I'm curious if Superman has enough control over his abilities to hit him hard enough to break Batman's bones without killing him. If he did, he would have to be making the conscious decision to hurt him and not kill him.

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I had the sequence in my head for a while, based on the idea that superman's minds gets taken over like in the Hush storyline. But I would like to see something simlar happen that. A fight like this can be tricky cause you want both parties to win as to not upset the fanboys, But I think Batman should get the edge so you can show what this new Batman is capable of and firmly establish him while demostrating to Superman that he isn't utouchable, setting up Luthor as a major threat.

Just my two cents
Two cents is generous.

Bathead 07-23-2013 01:54 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Who would win in a fight between Batman and Superman? Whoever the particular writer writing the scenario decides who will win, and come up with a logical reason for it.

godisawesome 07-23-2013 03:37 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
I want to see Batman pull creative Luthoresque plots out of his belt without kryptonite and still lose to Superman, at this time. they should demonstrate that Batmna can at least for a time hang with the heavy hitters, but I only want two scenarios where Batman could actually beat Superman on the movies.

One would be in a Justice League movie where Clark is being controlled by someone and is obviously and somewhat successfully fighting off the control. Batman would strictly be the tactician and strategist, and the combined powers of Wonder Woman (point man), Flash (speed superiority), Green Lantern (projection of equal force for a short time), and Martian Manhunter (assymetrical and psychological warfare) can overcome Superman by the skin of their fingernails. Basically, Batman would be linked to them mentally through Manhunter and exploit some of Superman's more basic weaknesses (theoretically, he could be suffocated into unconsciousness, etc.) and the laws of physics (mass * acceleration = force) in rapid fire for what amounts to a Justice League combo attack.

The second would again feature Superman in a compromised state and rely on a history of trust between the two in which Superman actually endorses Batman's anti-Kryptonian contingency plans, complete with Superman giving Batman custody of kryptonite fully intent on Batman using it on him. This would be the type of scenario that requires a status quo to have already developed between the two.

Otherwise, I'd personally prefer Sperman to still clearly win, though a stalemate or a fight to free Clark from mind control could be okay. I always liked the way they dealt with Superboy getting controlled for the third time: he regained enough control over his eyes to heat-vision a message to his friends on how to beat him. I'd kind of like to see that applied to any confrontation between the two now.

Llama_Shepherd 07-23-2013 04:18 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathead (Post 26444839)
Who would win in a fight between Batman and Superman? Whoever the particular writer writing the scenario decides who will win, and come up with a logical reason for it.

This. It has been done both ways and each time it works.

Superman will fight fairly, on the whole, Batman won't, never will.

Man of Steel showed Superman doesn't have lightning reactions, therefore, a Kryptonite projectile would affect him, then Batman already has an opening.

Equally, despite any openings Batman can get, Superman is still more powerful, even looking at the oft-cited Dark Knight Returns Superman is weakened from a nuclear strike, poisoned by artificial Kryptonite, hit with real Kryptonite by Green Arrow and attacked by a tank by Robin Batman was in Iron Man armour, and even still Bruce struggled to ever get the upper hand.

Enriquespy 07-23-2013 04:34 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Why should it be a physical fight?? There are many types of confrontations.

super-t 07-23-2013 05:03 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ares834 (Post 26444369)
I was always find it amusing when people say Superman can just crush Batman like an ant, incinerate him with HV, or throw him into the sun. Yes, yes, he can do all of that, but that isn't what Superman does! He could do the same thing to Lex as well, but he never does because Superman holds back and because he doesn't kill. Even more than prep, that's the only reason Batman can hold his own against Superman.

Loeb puts it best in Hush, "If Clark wanted to, he could use his superspeed and squish me into the cement. But I know how he thinks. Even more than the Kryptonite, he's got one big weakness. Deep down, Clark's essentially a good person... and deep down, I'm not."

Now I will first say, that IMO there's NO plausible way Batman would win even with kryptonite, for all the reasons stated so far. BUT, if they go the route as you stated using Supes "new learning morality" against him, then yes it will GREATLY even the odds for Batman. It will be really exciting to see Batman touring Supes with his morality knowing Supes could take him out in a second. That's the best way to handle the confrontation if you ask me.

kalhawj 07-23-2013 05:15 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Wouldn't mind them making their first encounter fight like in "Lex Luthor: Man of Steel" comics. Even with prep time and krptonite Batman wasn't able to defeat Superman but put out a good fight...

Bruce Malone 07-23-2013 05:40 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kalhawj (Post 26446493)
Wouldn't mind them making their first encounter fight like in "Lex Luthor: Man of Steel" comics. Even with prep time and krptonite Batman wasn't able to defeat Superman but put out a good fight...

Batman didn't have prep time actually in that fight. Batman wasn't expecting to be attacked but superman knew Lex had given him kryptonite and decided to stop batman (in the story it's obvious supes and bats didn't know each other very well yet).

Llama_Shepherd 07-23-2013 05:54 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
I think that is the best way to do it. Batman is unaware of Superman's incoming attack, but Superman inadvertently depowers himself becausevhe is unaware that Batman is holding Kryptonite. This way there is a fight that is still very one sided, but is at least entertaining.

Eros 07-23-2013 07:27 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
NO batman would lose, just like any other human who physically attacks superman.

Eros 07-23-2013 07:30 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd (Post 26446149)
This. It has been done both ways and each time it works.

Superman will fight fairly, on the whole, Batman won't, never will.

Man of Steel showed Superman doesn't have lightning reactions, therefore, a Kryptonite projectile would affect him, then Batman already has an opening.

Equally, despite any openings Batman can get, Superman is still more powerful, even looking at the oft-cited Dark Knight Returns Superman is weakened from a nuclear strike, poisoned by artificial Kryptonite, hit with real Kryptonite by Green Arrow and attacked by a tank by Robin Batman was in Iron Man armour, and even still Bruce struggled to ever get the upper hand.

A fair fight? how does superman fight a human in a fair fight? Like he is gonna stand there or something?

DvilDog 07-23-2013 09:08 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eros (Post 26447353)
A fair fight? how does superman fight a human in a fair fight? Like he is gonna stand there or something?

Wouldn't even be fair then. To use MOS as an example, when ole boy poured beer on him and then tried to push clark and about knocked himself down. As much as I love Batman he can kick and punch and throw batarangs all he wants to, it would be like punching or kicking a brick wall. Hell Supes could beat him without lifting a finger. Bats would break his own hands and legs on Supe's face. Fight over.

titansupes 07-23-2013 09:08 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by super-t (Post 26446413)
Now I will first say, that IMO there's NO plausible way Batman would win even with kryptonite, for all the reasons stated so far. BUT, if they go the route as you stated using Supes "new learning morality" against him, then yes it will GREATLY even the odds for Batman. It will be really exciting to see Batman touring Supes with his morality knowing Supes could take him out in a second. That's the best way to handle the confrontation if you ask me.

Yep.

The Riddler 07-23-2013 10:37 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
judging from goyer's comments, it will be a versus movie.

they should give the people what they want: batman winning. :o

Bathead 07-23-2013 11:00 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Well, you can certainly tell this is a Superman board. I can guarantee the results would be different were this the Batman forum. Not any more correct or incorrect, just different.

jmc 07-23-2013 11:04 PM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
As long as Bruce kicks Clark's arse at least once during the film I'll be happy.

Gianakin_ 07-24-2013 01:58 AM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
See, posts in this thread worry me. No, not the posters. I'm worried that the new DC era is one of fan pandering. Batman physically going against Superman, Superman being mind-controlled in JL... and Snyder/Goyer are both yes-men when it comes to fans. I don't like where all this is heading.

Ms. Marvel 07-24-2013 02:01 AM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Ugh without Kryptonite, I don't see how the fight would be fair. Besides, Kryptonite is stupid. It's like Cap defeating Thor in an actual fight.

Harley2004 07-24-2013 02:32 AM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms. Marvel (Post 26450377)
Ugh without Kryptonite, I don't see how the fight would be fair. Besides, Kryptonite is stupid. It's like Cap defeating Thor in an actual fight.

First off it's very different between these two. Also kryptonite, is not stupid. Superman is a God, basically. His powers are insane and somewhat ridiculous. Slap some kryptonite on him though and he becomes very beatable.

Ms. Marvel 07-24-2013 04:18 AM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley2004 (Post 26450539)
First off it's very different between these two. Also kryptonite, is not stupid. Superman is a God, basically. His powers are insane and somewhat ridiculous. Slap some kryptonite on him though and he becomes very beatable.

Not that different. But there's no point in debating that.

Well then I take back what I said. :o

Spider-Aziz 07-24-2013 05:27 AM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Riddler (Post 26448935)
judging from goyer's comments, it will be a versus movie.

they should give the people what they want: batman winning. :o

I hope it's "Who can reach the villain first" kind of rivalry if it will be a versus

Gianakin_ 07-24-2013 05:30 AM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Now, THERE'S an interesting thought.

Nathan 07-24-2013 06:52 AM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley2004 (Post 26450539)
First off it's very different between these two. Also kryptonite, is not stupid. Superman is a God, basically. His powers are insane and somewhat ridiculous. Slap some kryptonite on him though and he becomes very beatable.

And Thor IS a God, yet he has no exploitable weakness, just so you favorite human hero can beat him up. He simply has villains that are on his level. So does Superman. And when the Justice League gets introduced, you have a number of heroes that have the potential to defeat him.

Llama_Shepherd 07-24-2013 06:56 AM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eros (Post 26447353)
A fair fight? how does superman fight a human in a fair fight? Like he is gonna stand there or something?

Yes, he would. He also wouldn't try to exploit anything to debilitate Bruce. Bruce doesn't have those qualms, he's demonstrated he would risk the lives of others if it meant stopping Clark, Clark would not do that.

GarudA 07-24-2013 06:57 AM

Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?
 
I have always found the the Batman Vs Superman thing funny. Honestly, come on! Superman will always hold back, he knows that he can hurt him if he wanted to. Superman does not view Batman the same way he views Metallo or Darkseid. The same way Superman knows he can easily take out Luther, but he does not.


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