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-   -   How Much Was REALLY Retconned? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=479923)

Dude of Steel 05-24-2014 02:10 PM

How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
It's obvious that X-Men: The Last Stand was erased from existence and, probably, The Wolverine as well. But I get a feeling that X-Men, X2 (minus The Phoenix), and certain areas from X-Men Origins: Wolverine still exist. They might not be exactly the same but I don't believe they're completely gone either. What do you guys think?

darkangel 05-24-2014 02:19 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Yup, some things still have happen, like Rogue's white streak.

Dude of Steel 05-24-2014 02:25 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by darkangel (Post 28877887)
like Rogue's white streak.

Yeah, for now, the original X-Men doesn't seem to have been affected with the exception of Mystique. But even that could still happen. Days of Future Past ended with Mystique as a loner. She could always rejoin Magneto in Apocalypse.

GuestStar2004 05-24-2014 02:31 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
you can't judge till you see apocalypse

DocLathropBrown 05-24-2014 02:32 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Logically, the original films cannot have happened at all. The entire timeline has been messed around with. Think about it. Wolverine's interference in 1973 has affected all of these things:

*Magneto gets out of prison early
*Trask is not killed
*Sentinel program is cancelled
*Charles gets out of his personal funk much sooner
*Mystique is redeemed (maybe?)

Those are the biggest changes, but there will be smaller ripples as a result. For things to happen as they did, history needed to play out as it did before, but with the aforementioned big changes, these next events are very unlikey to happen:

*Stryker probably does not form Team X, or if he does, it does not include Wolverine, meaning no Deadpool
*Magneto would not wait until 2000 to start acting against humans, so the entirety of X-Men no longer happens.
*Wolverine will become involved with the X-Men in the '80s (as per Apocalypse)
*Because the first film doesn't happen,X2 is unlikely. Styker's actions against the mansion probably do not occur, as instead he probably acts against mutants far sooner.

In reality, the events of The Last Stand and The Wolverine are probably the only things that will still happen. Yukio will still come for Wolverine to say goodbye to Yashida, so it follows that the adventure in Japan would still happen. Worthington Labs would still invent the cure (unless a future film affects this), so the events of 3 would still have to happen, just without the Pheonix aspect.

DACrowe 05-24-2014 02:43 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
For sure (SPOILERS):

-Most of the plot of X-Men: The Last Stand. Jean Grey is alive, Cyclops is alive, and Rogue in her cameo is more likable in five seconds of cameo than how Ratner directed (and butchered) her. Jean Grey either never became the Phoenix, because Xavier saw that future, or it was curbed in a different way.

-X-Men Origins: Wolverine -- One thing that I caught to my surprise is that his "lover" at the beginning calls him Jimmy. While I thought "The Wolverine" totally ignored this crappy movie by having him called Logan when he was in 1945 Japan, but maybe I am remembering that wrong. Either way, perhaps his 1800s origin and "century of war" background really did happen in this continuity? They'll have to address it in Apocalypse if he still hasn't been "Stryker-ed" yet, which seems inevitable. But either way, the way he ended up in Stryker's clutches, as a Vietnam soldier who could not die, has been retconned, so all that crappy stuff in Canada with whatsherface is also gone.

....and what MIGHT change:

X-Men/X2: I stand by that the First Class series will see Mystique reformed as a good guy by the end of the third film. Maybe she'll be a tentative "freelancing" X-Men like Wolverine was in the first two movies, but they're making a big deal in DOFP about her needing to "come home." That will play a part in DOFP ending. And nothing we saw of altered 2023 would contradict that as Mystique is simply not present or mentioned. But if my prediction holds true, then the plot of X1 and X2 would play out very differently. In fact, it is hard to imagine how the Brotherhood would have gotten hold of Senator Kelly in X1 or how Magneto would have escaped in X2 without her.

Just some thoughts.

ares834 05-24-2014 03:02 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
It's an entirely different timeline with some major difference. I doubt anything similar to X-men or X2 played out in the new timeline.

DigificWriter 05-24-2014 03:13 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
According to what I've seen (although I haven't seen the film yet), NOTHING was 'retconned' OR erased, as we're dealing with a Legend of Zelda scenario with a bit of Back to the Future, Terminator, and Star Trek.

Slushy 05-24-2014 03:33 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Quote:

I doubt anything similar to X-men or X2 played out in the new timeline.
LOL, Singer directed those movies. Of course, he's going to keep them!

Hurm... 05-24-2014 03:39 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Does Wolvie even have adamantium claws? At the end, that was Mystique acquiring Wolvie's body, not Stryker, which means he would not experiment on him directly afterwards. Is this correct?

Dude of Steel 05-24-2014 03:43 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DocLathropBrown (Post 28878011)
*Stryker probably does not form Team X

The movie ended with a fake-out in which Mystique is disguised as Stryker. It's possible that SHE creates Team X as a counter-group to the X-Men and the Brotherhood. Now, how does this lead to Wolverine getting his metal? Only time will tell.

Quote:

*Magneto would not wait until 2000 to start acting against humans, so the entirety of X-Men no longer happens.
The actual plot of Magneto kidnapping Senator Kelley and Rogue and then using a weapon to turn humans into mutants could still happen. The story itself may now be different but I think the actual event still happened.

Quote:

*Wolverine will become involved with the X-Men in the '80s (as per Apocalypse)
I don't think it has been confirmed that Wolverine will be an actual X-Men. He's just simply in the movie.

Quote:

*Because the first film doesn't happen,X2 is unlikely. Styker's actions against the mansion probably do not occur, as instead he probably acts against mutants far sooner.
It all depends on whether or not the REAL Stryker gets in contact with Wolverine and gives him his metal.

Quote:

In reality, the events of The Last Stand and The Wolverine are probably the only things that will still happen. Yukio will still come for Wolverine to say goodbye to Yashida, so it follows that the adventure in Japan would still happen.
Probably, although a few changes would have to be made.

Quote:

Worthington Labs would still invent the cure (unless a future film affects this), so the events of 3 would still have to happen, just without the Pheonix aspect.
I believe everything from that movie was erased because Bryan Singer and Matthew Vaughn have personal reasons to hate it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DACrowe (Post 28878107)
perhaps his 1800s origin and "century of war" background really did happen

Of course it did. Everything before 1973 still happened.

Quote:

the plot of X1 and X2 would play out very differently. In fact, it is hard to imagine how the Brotherhood would have gotten hold of Senator Kelly in X1 or how Magneto would have escaped in X2 without her.
Other mutants could do the job. All she did was hijack Kelley's helicopter and then romance a fat dude at a bar.

Comicbookguy339 05-24-2014 03:48 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
i think Wolverine still getting the adamantium would be cheap. It would cheapen the ending of DOFP (Mystique saving Logan from Stryker).

Dude of Steel 05-24-2014 03:50 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Comicbookguy339 (Post 28878677)
i think Wolverine still getting the adamantium would be cheap. It would cheapen the ending of DOFP (Mystique saving Logan from Stryker).

She rescued him that one time. Stryker could still be after him.

DigificWriter 05-24-2014 03:55 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
In Zelda, time splits as a result of certain things happening, and according to everything I can find currently, the same type of scenario plays itself out in the X-©
Verse as of DoFP.

Kalonthar 05-24-2014 04:11 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Well, Apocalypse could always give Wolverine his adamantium instead.

Dude of Steel 05-24-2014 04:52 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
It's possible, I suppose. But does that mean that his memory remains intact?

CaptainCanada 05-24-2014 05:08 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude of Steel (Post 28878635)
Other mutants could do the job. All she did was hijack Kelley's helicopter and then romance a fat dude at a bar.

Other transforming mutants? In the latter instance, Mystique was Magneto's only remaining loyalist.

Blackman 05-24-2014 05:39 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Im guessing "The Wolverine" was changed a lot it the events from it even happened.

SuperT 05-24-2014 05:50 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
After seeing DOFP, The Last Stand and The Wolverine are almost assuredly gone from the new timeline. The ending with Mystique would also imply that Origins and X2 are also gone as well.

I think it's just easier and makes more sense to assume that all the events of the first trilogy + the two Wolverine movies never happened in the newly formed timeline. It just doesn't make much sense that any or all of them would still happen after the changes in the 1973 had such a drastic impact on the future.

Not to mention, I just simply think this was there chance to wipe the slate clean and move on. Now the only things they have to line up with are First Class + 70's scenes in DOFP.

DigificWriter 05-24-2014 06:17 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Nothing is 'gone', because we're dealing with a Split Timeline.

SuperT 05-24-2014 06:21 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Which is why I said in the new timeline that was created - everything did happen otherwise this movie wouldn't exist. Once Wolvie went back and changed things that caused a new timeline to be created, one where the original set of movies probably never happened.

marvelrobbins 05-24-2014 06:39 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
The original timeline

Days of future past-post credit scene

Origins-1845-WW1 part of monlogue

X-Men/First class-Boy Magneto at Concentation camp

First Class-Xavier finds mystique

Shaw tests magneto

Origins-WWII part of prologue

The Wolverine-WWII flashback

first Class-Main events of film

Days of future past-1973 parts unaffected by wlverine

Stryker before congress

Mystique rescues Havok and others from Stryker

Mystique In Trask's office

Mystique in bar and hotel with vietnamese general

Mystique kills trask and is captured from Xavier's exposition In future

Origins-Vietnam part of montage and Team X part of film

The last Stand-Xavier and magneto find jean

Origins-Main part of film

The last stand-Angel as boy

X-Men-Main part of film

X2

The last Stand-Main part of film

The Wolverine-Main part of film

Days of future past-2023 parts of film

Timeline altered-

Days of future Past-Post credit scene

Origins-1945-WW1 part of montage

X-Men/First Class-Magneto as boy arriving at CC

First Class-Xavier and Mystique as children In mansion and Young magneto with Shaw In camp

Origins-WWII part of montage

The Wolverine-WWII flashback

First Class-Main part of film

Days of future Past-1973 part of film

X-Men Apocalypse

new 2023 ending of DOFP

New wolverine film will probally be placed after Apocalypse.

I am skeptical of OT cast besides Hugh Jackman returning In future films since
nothing they were In except ending of DOFP now has happened. And since Ian Mckellen wasn't in ending of DOFP Michael fassbender Is only Magneto In
series.

ciscostudent561 05-24-2014 06:48 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
the biggest thing that jumps to me in the future that isn't fixed is the whole phoenix thing and how Xavier approaches it.
Especially with our favorite leader's wifey in all Red...
I mean does he suppress it again? Is it only a matter of time or will does she have to be put in a near death situation again?

Whiskey Tango 05-24-2014 06:53 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
Where are all those people from a year ago who were swearing up and down there wouldn't be any retcons, no alternate timelines, if you think they'd invalidate the movies like that you're stupid, etc? Funny! Maybe I'll look some of those posts up later.

JEM 05-24-2014 06:59 PM

Re: How Much Was REALLY Retconned?
 
http://i.imgur.com/4cG8QLG.gif


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