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-   -   I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=477735)

Metal Spidey 04-22-2014 10:32 AM

I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Disclaimer: This is not a troll thread. I'm very serious.

I finally got around to watching Man of Steel and as far as I can see it was Zod and the other kyptonians who caused the most destruction. But people talk as if it was Superman who was carelessly wrecking the city in his battle against them. The only time I'd say that was true was in his one-on-one with Zod. But even then it was mainly Zod tossing Superman around. It's not like two people with their power can have a battle in a city and not get thrown into a building or two. Anyway, that's all I have to say. Maybe I missed a part during a quick bathroom break but from what I saw I didn't see Superman be as reckless as people said.

The Endless 04-22-2014 10:37 AM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Who lured Zod and co to Earth? ;)

InJustice 04-22-2014 02:47 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Endless (Post 28552483)
Who lured Zod and co to Earth? ;)

If you're going to use that logic, you can apply it to almost all superheroes.

MrsKent26 04-22-2014 06:48 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
He wasn't that reckless and didn't "smash half of Metropolis." Some people didn't pay attention to the movie and choose to criticize what they didn't give their full attention to.

Batmannerism 04-22-2014 09:11 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Spidey (Post 28552453)
Disclaimer: This is not a troll thread. I'm very serious.

I finally got around to watching Man of Steel and as far as I can see it was Zod and the other kyptonians who caused the most destruction. But people talk as if it was Superman who was carelessly wrecking the city in his battle against them. The only time I'd say that was true was in his one-on-one with Zod. But even then it was mainly Zod tossing Superman around. It's not like two people with their power can have a battle in a city and not get thrown into a building or two. Anyway, that's all I have to say. Maybe I missed a part during a quick bathroom break but from what I saw I didn't see Superman be as reckless as people said.


You're completely right, and you didn't miss anything. It was pretty much all Zod and his krypto buddies. Yes, Supes was a bit reckless in Smallville, as in when he first tackles Zod and they fly through the grain silos and the petrol station (and when he tackles Faora into the Ihop) but hey, it was his first day as Superman, so really, that's to be expected.

If you watch the Metropolis fight, its Zod who takes it down to street level.
Supes punches him over top of the buildings, presumably to avoid property damage. All those people

I mean, he'd never been in a fight before and never been able to cut loose with his powers, so really he probably didn't realise how much damage he could do.

However, the people who did the most damage in Smallville were the air force jets who fired missiles and strafed down the main street ! (and when their jets crashed that did a ton of property damage too, same thing in metropolis ). The train that Nam Ek threw actually did less damage than the jets.

Personally, I think people were so surprised by the scale of the carnage, compared to previous Superman films (particularly the human casualties) that they responded on more of an emotional level to it.

Something else, and I think this was intentional, lots of people ***** that Superman didn't try and save anyone during the fights. Actually, he did, he saved the following helicopter gunner.....and what happens when he does that POW ! He gets nailed, and Faora is left free to slaughter those soldiers. I think Snyder was making a point there that during a full on fight to the death, you can't turn your back on an opponent (especially those as dangerous as Superman was facing).

So, big ups to you for actually watching the movie and not just buying into all the negative hype.

cheers,

:super:

Batmannerism 04-22-2014 09:23 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Endless (Post 28552483)
Who lured Zod and co to Earth? ;)

Wrong word bro.

"Lured" implies he did it on purpose (like a Fisherman lures fish), he had no idea that Zod and co were even out there (because Jor El's AI didn't know they survived Krypton's destruction.

You have a point though, there is a causal connection between Clark finding the ship and Zod finding Earth. But, unless there was some intent on Clark's part to draw Zod, or any Kryptonians, here (which we've already established there wasn't) you can't really blame him for it.

Interestingly, your argument is most often applied to Batman, and Spider Man that some of their most evil and violent enemies only exist because of them - probably the Joker being the best example, and from time to time it does come up in the comics, about whether Batman is partially to blame for the Joker's appalling crimes -and the corollary argument which is that
Batman should kill the Joker, to prevent his future offending.

In an interesting inversion of that, often Luthor is portrayed as a greedy, scumbag, but some writers portray him as obsessed with Superman, and that if he could let go of that obsession, could pretty much save mankind
single-handed, cure cancer etc. It's Superman that stops him from being
a benefactor to humanity.

So, in summary, I see your point, but I think it's misapplied here.

cheers

Harley2004 04-22-2014 09:24 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Looks like Godzilla hit it.





Quote:

Originally Posted by The Endless (Post 28552483)
Who lured Zod and co to Earth? ;)

Wouldn't that be the issue for Lex, or even Batman?

sf2 04-22-2014 11:21 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
because it's superman. there shouldn't be any destruction at all! he should have saved all.
whereas it's ok for other superheroes, because they ain't super. ;)

Wildcard 04-22-2014 11:59 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
As I've said before, it's really no different than in the comics. Not like Superman was gonna be able to appeal to Zod & co.'s humanity.

STARMAN 04-23-2014 07:50 AM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Superman should have taken Zod out for a beer and calmly worked out their troubles. :yay:

Metal Spidey 04-23-2014 11:52 AM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Batmannerism (Post 28557655)
However, the people who did the most damage in Smallville were the air force jets who fired missiles and strafed down the main street ! (and when their jets crashed that did a ton of property damage too, same thing in metropolis ). The train that Nam Ek threw actually did less damage than the jets.

I forgot to mention the military. They did a considerable amount of damage as well.

Quote:

Personally, I think people were so surprised by the scale of the carnage, compared to previous Superman films (particularly the human casualties) that they responded on more of an emotional level to it.
True. However they should've criticized the director and the film itself rather than making it seem like Superman was a rampaging beast.

Quote:

So, big ups to you for actually watching the movie and not just buying into all the negative hype.
I use reviews as a guideline but I always make up my own mind in the end. The same goes for video games. If I always went by the reviews I'd have never gotten into some of my most favorite games. Some people need to take a chill pill and enjoy things without looking towards the negative.

Guts 04-23-2014 07:43 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
[QUOTE=Harley2004;28557735]Looks like Godzilla hit it.





that was caused by the world engine. superman wasn't even near metroplis when that happened.

doobie 05-09-2014 03:01 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
I don't like how the film shows such damage without showing much of the human element (people complaining their shop is destroyed, people scared), etc.

But I don't think you can blame the character because he was too busy in the fights and we know from his actions in the rest of the film he cares about human life. It is a fault of the film/editing, not the character.

sportjames23 05-20-2014 12:39 AM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Batmannerism (Post 28557655)
You're completely right, and you didn't miss anything. It was pretty much all Zod and his krypto buddies. Yes, Supes was a bit reckless in Smallville, as in when he first tackles Zod and they fly through the grain silos and the petrol station (and when he tackles Faora into the Ihop) but hey, it was his first day as Superman, so really, that's to be expected.

If you watch the Metropolis fight, its Zod who takes it down to street level.
Supes punches him over top of the buildings, presumably to avoid property damage. All those people

I mean, he'd never been in a fight before and never been able to cut loose with his powers, so really he probably didn't realise how much damage he could do.

However, the people who did the most damage in Smallville were the air force jets who fired missiles and strafed down the main street ! (and when their jets crashed that did a ton of property damage too, same thing in metropolis ). The train that Nam Ek threw actually did less damage than the jets.

Personally, I think people were so surprised by the scale of the carnage, compared to previous Superman films (particularly the human casualties) that they responded on more of an emotional level to it.

Something else, and I think this was intentional, lots of people ***** that Superman didn't try and save anyone during the fights. Actually, he did, he saved the following helicopter gunner.....and what happens when he does that POW ! He gets nailed, and Faora is left free to slaughter those soldiers. I think Snyder was making a point there that during a full on fight to the death, you can't turn your back on an opponent (especially those as dangerous as Superman was facing).

So, big ups to you for actually watching the movie and not just buying into all the negative hype.

cheers,

:super:


This. 100% this.

Persistence 05-23-2014 08:38 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Come on guys. Watch :56 and on in silence.



If Webster had a video under the word reckless, it would be this.

Batmannerism 05-23-2014 09:33 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Persistence (Post 28871597)
Come on guys. Watch :56 and on in silence.



If Webster had a video under the word reckless, it would be this.

Sorry, but with the greatest respect, I have to disagree with you there.

The word Reckless (particularly in law) implies you know the risks and consciously disregard them. Here Clark probably wasn't aware of the risks at all.

This is Superman on his first day on the job.
He's never been in a fight before, and has no idea just how powerful he is. True he takes out the grain silos and the gas station, but that's understandable, he probably didn't expect to go that far.

If he'd been Superman with vast experience at battling evil, particularly super-powered evil of comparable strength and durability to himself, yup
then it would be reckless.

Under these circumstances, Reckless isn't the right word.

KRYPTON INC. 05-23-2014 10:26 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Remember.... Batman running over cop cars with cops inside them, or Hulk and Thor crashing a Leviathan into Grand Central is not reckless and must not be judged. Superman losing his cool because Martha Kent, HIS MOTHER, is being threatened must be excoriated for all time.

smallville fan 05-23-2014 10:43 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
It's just the angry Donner/Reeve fanboys who are looking to start a fight talking. They can't handle change very well.

KRYPTON INC. 05-23-2014 10:54 PM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
I'm a Donner/Reeve fanboy. I LOVE both films. And that's not just because I am a Superman fan. I have not really enjoyed most of the post Superman II material we've been given. Hell, I have little love for most of Timm's work with the character. Though I do think that post the TWILIGHT episodes of JL that the DCAU's handling became much better, especially in JLU.

HaplessHenchman 05-29-2014 09:44 AM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smallville fan (Post 28872749)
It's just the angry Donner/Reeve fanboys who are looking to start a fight talking. They can't handle change very well.

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

Lord 05-29-2014 09:48 AM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smallville fan (Post 28872749)
It's just the angry Donner/Reeve fanboys who are looking to start a fight talking. They can't handle change very well.

That statement is just as offensive to non-Donner fans who like classic Superman

sf2 05-30-2014 02:36 AM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. (Post 28872577)
Remember.... Batman running over cop cars with cops inside them, or Hulk and Thor crashing a Leviathan into Grand Central is not reckless and must not be judged. Superman losing his cool because Martha Kent, HIS MOTHER, is being threatened must be excoriated for all time.

people holds a higher moral code for superman. but then again, they are the same type of people complaining him being boring and dull as a scout boy.

batman is needed to slap their face repeatedly. and it's ok. because he is batman. :D

sportjames23 05-30-2014 02:59 AM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. (Post 28872577)
Remember.... Batman running over cop cars with cops inside them, or Hulk and Thor crashing a Leviathan into Grand Central is not reckless and must not be judged. Superman losing his cool because Martha Kent, HIS MOTHER, is being threatened must be excoriated for all time.

Right?

That's the thing I take issue the most with criticism of Man of Steel--the double standard.

Batman could have easily killed those cops when he ran over their car in Batman Begins. The cops who chased him could have died in wrecks. There could have been people in cars that he blew up while being chased. Hell, even Alfred told him it was a miracle no one was killed.

Any complaints about that? None that I heard.

Thor, Hulk and Iron Man caused a hella lot of destruction in NYC. Iron Man brought down one of the Leviathans RIGHT above some civilians. Thor and Hulk crashed one right in a crowded Grand Central Station.

Anyone ***** about those instances? Nope, people cheered them on because The Avengers was so fun and they cracked jokes while killing aliens.

Speaking of killing aliens...nary a peep about the Avengers killing. And yes, they did kill the Chitauri. I guess it's ok because the Chitauri didn't look human, and again, the Avengers were cracking jokes while killing them.

I guess if Superman gave us a wink and a smile while taking on Zod and crew, he'd have been forgiven.

sportjames23 05-30-2014 03:01 AM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smallville fan (Post 28872749)
It's just the angry Donner/Reeve fanboys who are looking to start a fight talking. They can't handle change very well.

I'm a huge fan of the Donner/Reeve Superman films. My parents took me to see Superman: The Movie when I was five in 1978. I grew up on those films.

And I loved Man of Steel.

Don't lump all Donner/Reeve fans in one group.

smallville fan 05-30-2014 03:59 AM

Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sportjames23 (Post 28928503)
I'm a huge fan of the Donner/Reeve Superman films. My parents took me to see Superman: The Movie when I was five in 1978. I grew up on those films.

And I loved Man of Steel.

Don't lump all Donner/Reeve fans in one group.

Sorry, I think the right word I'm looking for is "purist" rather than "fan". Those folk who think there's only one way to do Supes on the big screen and those who think Bryan Singer leaving the X-Men franchise was a good thing.


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