The SuperHeroHype Forums

The SuperHeroHype Forums (http://forums.superherohype.com/index.php)
-   X-Men 1, 2 & 3 (http://forums.superherohype.com/forumdisplay.php?f=466)
-   -   Say something positive about The Last Stand (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=360159)

Kermit_The_Frog 05-12-2015 11:03 AM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Avenging Angel (Post 31365785)
James...captured Cyc's angst perfectly. For such a small role, James was memorable in his final scene.

I thought Marsden was great casting. It's like Scott right off the page. I liked Cyclops character best in X-Men: Brief showing of leadership skills, mapping out the strategy for Liberty Island, his bedside chat with Charles, his banter with Wolverine, and taking the shot at Magneto at the end -- and the way he broke down when Jean died in X2 was sad.

Too bad we couldn't see his character arc come full circle in X3.

ironman29758 05-26-2015 11:36 AM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kermit_The_Frog (Post 31371399)
I thought Marsden was great casting. It's like Scott right off the page. I liked Cyclops character best in X-Men: Brief showing of leadership skills, mapping out the strategy for Liberty Island, his bedside chat with Charles, his banter with Wolverine, and taking the shot at Magneto at the end -- and the way he broke down when Jean died in X2 was sad.

Too bad we couldn't see his character arc come full circle in X3.

Marsden has a lot of great scenes as Cyclops(the train station scene where that little kid smiles at him and he smiles back but the mom sees him and quickly takes the little kid away speaks volumes, or when Wolverine grabs his shirt and try to tough guy him but he just calmly looks at the Professor, hated that stay away from my girl scene and wish X2, the brief time he was on was handled better), while I'm not a fan of movie Cyclops(prefer Evolution Cyclops, Mark Millar Ultimate Cyclops, Whedon, some of Bendis, Ellis among a few others), he does have moments that really speaks as a character to me , just thought of something, it probably would have been easier if after Cyclops left the mansion, he comes back at the end and has the scene with Jean instead of Wolverine with Jean leaving or sacrificing herself instead of Cyclops dying, or would that not have been possible?

ironman29758 05-26-2015 11:57 AM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
If I have anything positive to say about X3 and what I liked about the film:

-Danger Room session of a DoFP like world with a Sentinel, hinting at they might exist in the X-Men universe(Even though I wasn't crazy about it, the effects were disappointing i and it felt to short, it was nice to be included)
-seeing the Fastball special come to life
-X-Men holding the line but I rather it be Halle calling the charge
-Iceman finally Icing up and how it came about. Hated the effect and prefer DoFP Iced up look but it was a fitting moment.
-Pyro with the concealed flame throwers and how he was handled
-Magneto speeches and lines(especially the mark line, speech at the mutant meeting, and the regrets on Charles dying). Sir Ian killed it as Magneto
-the opening scene with Jean meeting Charles and Eric and Warren(both cutting his wings off to hide it from his father and flying out the window definitely to his father)
-the fact it made DoFP possible(it's surprising even though some people wonder how half of the stuff happen some of the stuff they did made sense and was possible partly because of DoFP in my mind like the introduction/hint of Sentinels and a Trask being shown despite it not being the Bolivar Trask used, Ellen and Kelsey as Beast,Professor X return at the end through his twin brother, Magneto hint at the cure not being permanent, and kind of Rachel not being used and Kitty taking her place because I think it makes no sense if Jean and Cyclops both died without any hint of having a child whatsoever)
-Beast and Kitty, Kelsey and Ellen killed it
-Bobby Drake. Shawn was perfect
-James in the one scene he had when he was in grief about Jean and Jean when she teared up hearing Scott's name. Although Hugh and Famke I had to admit, had more chemistry. The writers made sure to let us know Jean truly loved Scott and they do have decent Scott moments despite it not being a fantastic Cyclops personality.
-Halle's action sequence and the fact we finally saw her fly and nice lightning sequence

I agreed it's more watchable than most superheroes third films, but the problems weren't the ideas, it was mostly the executions that failed the movie ultimately. Even though it had the comic to life action sequence in some regard, it doesn't have the emotional pull and nuances that Bryan brought when he directed or even the same fell Matthew had when he directed in First Class. If it was a mix of X1, X2, X3, First Class and DoFP that would be the perfect X-Men film imo. Hopefully Apocalypse surpass DoFP and all rpevious X films in that regard.

Batsfan1 07-22-2015 02:29 AM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
The movie's good. Not great, but okay. I like it. I know people take issue with certain things, but I've never had a huge problem with them and don't think erasing the whole continuity was necessary. Especially to fix what people call are the problems that this movie has. It would have been very easy to rejig everything without it.

BobJM 09-21-2015 11:07 AM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
I'd argue that it had the best trailer of any of the movies:



Just goes to show you that this movie had serious potential

I'm Venom 09-21-2015 02:55 PM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
It may not be the best film in the series, but it's a lot better than Origins. I thought Xavier's death was well done for the most part. And I really enjoyed the last scene when a geriatric Magneto was playing chess by himself.

Dr doomsday 09-21-2015 06:45 PM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
I honestly think X3 is better than X2 hear me out most people say X2 had a lot of character development but did it actually most of the development in X2 was at Bobby's house and the campfire stuff other than those sections the only thing that really comes to mind is the Scott and Jean scene, the two Nightcrawler dialog scenes with Storm which show his faith though these are the only scenes that show his faith, Wolverine confronting Stryker in the climax, Logan's nightmare and Xaiver and Stryker that's about all a good dose yeah but X3 had plenty.

Scott and Logan, Xaiver and Storm, Angel cutting off his wings, the discovering of the cure, Beast reaction to his hand changing look at his face that tells you quite a bit about the character, Beasts outrage over the cure being used as a weapon which reveals some of his morals, Angel rejecting the cure, Xaivers funeral, Logan and Rogue, The infirmary scene between Logan and Jean, Jean and Scott, and of course the confrontation at the house. That's plenty of character stuff just as much as X2.

Though I know what you're thinking there all brief are they? How long was Scott and Jean's scene in X2, How long was Logan's nightmare, how long was Storm and Nightcrawlers talk about faith, how long was Logan and Jean, how long was Logan and Mystique and how long was Bobby's scene with his parents. Was the scene with Mystique's interrogation any shorter than her infiltration did we not learn a little about her life in this scene, how many character scenes follow Xaiver's death four maybe five all emotional and the section is about as long as the campfire stuff. How long is the infirmary scene like five minutes that's almost as long as all the dialog scenes at Bobby's house. The dialog scenes are for the most part about the same length and give the characters the same focus.

The story arcs were rushed not really, how much of X2 was actually the Stryker arc did Bobby's house tie into or the chase with the jets, Magneto's escape and all the scenes with Mystique were only loosely connected, only one scene in the campfire stuff was focused on it and Jean's arc wasn't really connected at all until the ending. How much of that is the Stryker arc certainly no where near the whole movie. The two arcs weren't connected Magneto wanted to use jean as a weapon against the cure there about as connected as the Jean arc was with the Stryker arc they are also connected by the same moral theme of trying to control something far beyond you Xaiver and Magneto Phoenix, Warren Sr and the Cure the entire mutant population.

More so how many character arcs are a part of the Stryker arc how many are relevant to that arc Storm not really her dialog scenes with Nightcrawler are mostly disconnected with the movie only coming into play slightly near the end of the climax. After the attack on the president and being found Nightcrawler doesn't have a very big role only having a small role in the climax. Bobby, Rogue and Pyro don't tie into that story arc at all they don't even tie into the Jean arc either meaning the whole section at Bobby's house isn't relevant to the movie at all and even worse Bobby never brings it up again his family abandoned him he should mention it again. Xaiver has a role but he's mostly just a plot device to set Stryker's plan in motion. The only character whose arc ties to Stryker is Wolverine he is the only one who actually develops from that story arc everyone else's development isn't really linked to the actual plot of the movie Rogue and Bobby get a lot of focus despite having no relevance to the story at all and they're character scenes are never brought up again.

In X3 the character arcs actually link to the plot of the movie Storm becomes Xaiver's successor and the leader of the X men this is directly because of Dark Phoenix she only has like four character scenes max but how many did she have in X2. Rogue actually serves a purpose here her screen time is decreased but she has a role she is connected to one of the plots. Bobby has just as much screen time and character as he did in X2 his relationship with Rogue his bound with Kitty his becoming an X men and even his rivalry with Pyro all of these serve the story in some way and our mentioned again. Pyro's terrorist attack furthers the story his attack on the cops does not and is never mentioned again. Magneto has his struggle to control Jean the death of Xaiver which we see his reaction to the loss of Mystique he is tied to both arcs both arcs impact his character and he goes through an arc of sorts which he really didn't in X2. Xaiver has a role beyond exposition and serving the villains plot he is responsible for Phoenix he plays a role in Storm's arc and we see different sides of his character that were only hinted at before his death has massive impact. Wolverine and Jean are self explanatory. The character arcs tie in with the story they are affected by the story while they really aren't in X2 not a lot any way.

Why was the Phoenix done terribly? Phoenix is a representation of the repressed portions of Jean's powers that have taken on their own identity personifying Jean's desire, joy and rage resulting in a struggle between them that Phoenix ultimately wins leaving it in control. That is who Phoenix is that is what you got. She struggles to control it, an outside force tries to control her which eventually blows up in their face, Scott does cause her to snap, there is a battle and psychic struggle at her home, there is a psychic link, she does eventually lose control and go on a rampage, she does regain control long enough to sacrifice her life for those she loves. The story is still about a doomed love. Everything is there the only difference being Magneto takes the hellfire clubs place and Wolverine fulfills Cyclops role does that really make much of a difference it's still the same basic story it has the same impact some times it hits you harder. The story is given just as much screen time as Stryker was maybe more it has emotional impact the characters in the story are given plenty of focus and all the important bits are hit we see her struggle in the infirmary and the house scene we see Magneto try to control her, we see Logan's struggle. Xaivers death impacts the entire movie and has numerous scenes dedicated to it we see Storm react to Xaivers death and take his place we even get a reaction from Magneto. We see her lose control and then give up her life. The story had half the movie dedicated to it just as much as Stryker and way more than Jean's Phoenix arc?

The cure was a mcguffin than what was Cerebro how did it impact the characters the cure had plenty of emotional or political scenes, Beast's hand changing, the mutant rally, Mystique being cured against her will, Beast and the president debate, Storm and Beast debate, Logan and Rogue, Angel rejecting it, the people protesting against it in mass, Rogue's choice which makes sense who would want to keep those powers the comic makes her keep them because they're ongoing but there is no reason for Rogue to actually keep them they do not benefit her and they rarely benefit others there going to eventually break her, giving them up is not only the best decision for her but others as well would you keep them. These are emotional or character scenes it wasn't done perfectly but they didn't fight for the cure until the ending there are plenty of scenes with depth and certainly more depth and emotion than the Stryker arc at least I think i did.

Finally the war, the war has never really been shown in X men at least not that I know of and this movie did show it pretty well. Mystique is captured and interrogated for Magneto's location she and a bunch of other imprisoned mutants are transported through prison trucks Magneto rescues them but Mystique is cured when the cure is turned into a weapon and left behind as a casualty of war. Magneto uses this to rally an army and has Pyro launch a terrorist attack on a public cure facility before Magneto declares a terrorist threat. In response the cure is mass produced into a weapon and equiped to the army who surround Alcatraz to protect the cure another group of soldiers through Mystique track down Magneto's camp but it's a diversion to throw them off while Magneto attacks Alcatraz. The human and mutant armies clash against each other the X men arrive and form an alliance with the humans and face the brotherhood in a final battle where many humans and mutants die before Magneto is stabbed with the cure and defeated. That actually does feel like a war much more than almost any other X men thing I can think of a war was fought and there were casualties on both sides. Was it used to it's fullest no but considering few X men stories has really done the war period I'll take what I can get also it wasn't a separate arc it was clearly connected to the cure arc the cure started it they are the same arc.

Angel, Colossus Juggernaut, Multiple man and Castillo don't have a very big role I admit but the movie isn't about them they're supporting characters or minor supporting characters Juggernaut isn't his comic counterpart but he is pretty accurate to Ultimate Juggernaut so they did follow one of the comics. Castillo actually has a pretty important role furthering Magneto's plans a few times certainly a more important role than Toad, Sabertooth or Lady deathstryke the same holds true for Juggernaut who also has more of a role than most of those examples. Angel had a small role but compare him to the new characters in the future during Days of future past or even most of the first class except Havok he certainly has more character than most of them and certainly more of an arc did any of them really have anything like when he was cutting off his wings or his rejection of the cure he was underused yes but so was most of the cast of the last two movies especially days of future past which pretty much wasted the entire original cast.

Last Cyclops yes his screen time was decreased but ask yourself this what relevance did Scott have in X2 really none he is kidnapped and mentioned only once afterwards he then has minimum role in the climax. In X3 Scott dies and is mentioned throughout. Logan finds his shades, he asks jean what happened to him which starts her meltdown, he tells Xaiver and Storm that he thinks she killed him, Xaiver tells Jean she killed him which causes her to snap, Logan mentions him in his speech before the climax, and we see his grave where Storm and Kitty are shown paying their respects. Scott serves a purpose in this movie his death is what causes Jean to snap he matters in X3 while he really doesn't in X2.

Whoa that was long but my point being the plot is more complex the cure is given focus and has plenty of emotional or political scenes, the Dark phoenix arc is also highly focused on with plenty of emotion and character scenes through out each arc is given just as much focus as the Stryker arc from X2 but both probably have more emotional depth in my opinion anyway. Also both climaxes start at around the seventy five minute point. The character arcs are good in both but in X3 they tie into the story they really don't in X2. The dialog scenes are just as long for the most part and the every scene serves the story in some way while X2 has large portions that while good don't serve the plot at all not small portions large portions. Those are the main reasons I find X3 better than X2 and I think I said more than enough positive things about it.

darkangel 09-28-2015 07:13 PM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
Famke's screen time.

x-er 10-02-2015 02:13 AM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
Ellen Page, of course.

psylockolussus 10-12-2015 06:43 AM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
It got an A- rating in CinemaScore.

Flint Marko 10-18-2015 10:12 AM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
I think Magneto taking over the bridge and putting it on Alcatraz made for a pretty cool set piece.

Mr. Youtube 11-01-2015 12:42 PM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
The "No one ever talks about it. They just do it." scene.

-JKR- 12-11-2015 07:51 AM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
The opening scene is cool and overall it's light, short, dumb fun. Which is why it's a good thing they kept it short. Completely forgettable, but mildly entertaining.

Dr doomsday 12-11-2015 09:20 AM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
Did people just ignore my comment and comparison how is it a mindless movie what makes X men 2 smarter what makes it more complex and emotional seriously can anyone counter what I said?

Tymminator 12-23-2015 06:34 PM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
Kelsey Grammer's Beast

YoungBlood 01-23-2016 12:02 PM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
After watching Fant4stic, X3 is a masterpiece along with Origins.

X3 is a decent movie that although did some stupid decisions, it did have some interesting ideas and concepts.

CyclopsWasRight 01-29-2016 01:01 PM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
Flicking between X3 and something else right now and I can't help but keep turning back to X3 as they're some damn good scenes.

I think the movie kinda falls apart on casting of the new characters like Juggernaut. Deaths of the some of the originals (handled really well but a shame to happen) and the final act being lame.

Hank looking at his human hand with so much longing in his eyes spoke volumes. As did Magneto abandoning Mystique as it was so damn cold and inhuman. Beast leaving his job made you feel for the president. He's in a sucky situation and his question "Hot does democracy survive when you have men who camps move continents with their mind?" Was so true. You felt like these two despite parting ways aren't enemies but friends torn apart.

The cure sub-plot was handled really well as a real-life counterpoint of how would people react if there was a cure to being black or a cure to being disabled would raise the position of 'proud of being who you are vs wanting to fit in with the majority'

They nailed Scotts bad boy look and affinity for cycles. And his death while bad because you didn't want him to die was emotional as he had just gotten Jean back and was able to see her fully without a red tiny t for the first time. Then Xavier sensing it and the panic of Wolverine and Storm after hearing his call was great. Xaviers death and reaction was masterful.

A big part of the issue I think is it changed the franchise up dramatically and people weren't in favour of those changes like killing Cyclops. if they moved on they'd have to add some new heroes but I think they could've done it, Added Angel to the team after his introduction and expanded on Maddox and so forth in future movies.

Because of the reception they changed direction. It turned out good in the end otherwise we wouldn't have gotten FC or DOFP but if they did a sequel that had better reception it could've continued on.

If for example Civil War to kill off Captain America, unmask Spider-man to the public and turns Iron Man into an outright villain I can see it getting a similiar reception to X3 due to the big changes to the status quo and the resulting fallout moving forward

Herofan 01-31-2016 10:26 PM

Re: Say something positive about The Last Stand
 
Big positives: Angel and Juggernaut looked pretty good, Stewart did a really good job.

Dr. Doomsday, I'm afraid I mostly disagree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr doomsday (Post 32176365)
Scott and Logan, Xaiver and Storm, Angel cutting off his wings, the discovering of the cure, Beast reaction to his hand changing look at his face that tells you quite a bit about the character, Beasts outrage over the cure being used as a weapon which reveals some of his morals, Angel rejecting the cure, Xaivers funeral, Logan and Rogue, The infirmary scene between Logan and Jean, Jean and Scott, and of course the confrontation at the house. That's plenty of character stuff just as much as X2.

There were some scenes trying to explore the characters and a few of them worked but I think a lot fewer and less well-done than in X2 and too many of them felt like going through the motions (especially in reacting to the cure in pretty flat and obvious ways). In particular Angel's and somewhat Rogue's stories were really underdeveloped and Scott's death and Xavier's death weren't given the weight they should have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr doomsday (Post 32176365)
The story arcs were rushed not really, how much of X2 was actually the Stryker arc did Bobby's house tie into or the chase with the jets, Magneto's escape and all the scenes with Mystique were only loosely connected, only one scene in the campfire stuff was focused on it and Jean's arc wasn't really connected at all until the ending. How much of that is the Stryker arc certainly no where near the whole movie. The two arcs weren't connected Magneto wanted to use jean as a weapon against the cure there about as connected as the Jean arc was with the Stryker arc they are also connected by the same moral theme of trying to control something far beyond you Xaiver and Magneto Phoenix, Warren Sr and the Cure the entire mutant population.

The Jean arc in X2 was a subplot, somewhat setting-up/leading into a later story, but I thought well-done for that (and there's a loose but big tie-in in that Stryker controlling Cyclops contributed to Jean losing her control). Jean actually abandoning her friends and mentor and turning to mutant supremacy in 3 feels like it should get attention as a major storyline and it kind of does in the first half but then feels pretty forgotten about in the second half.
The Iceman's home scenes reflect on a more intimate level intolerance like Stryker's and contribute to Pyro coming to join Magneto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr doomsday (Post 32176365)
Magneto has his struggle to control Jean the death of Xaiver which we see his reaction to the loss of Mystique he is tied to both arcs both arcs impact his character and he goes through an arc of sorts which he really didn't in X2. Xaiver has a role beyond exposition and serving the villains plot he is responsible for Phoenix he plays a role in Storm's arc and we see different sides of his character that were only hinted at before his death has massive impact.

I didn't see much of an arc for Magneto, ignoring that Phoenix was unstable and could be very dangerous (although she doesn't come off as full of rage or unstable/uncontrollable in general) until the end when it's completely clear; his abandoning Mystique and then getting depowered himself were good moments. I agree Xavier had a pretty good storyline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr doomsday (Post 32176365)
Whoa that was long but my point being the plot is more complex the cure is given focus and has plenty of emotional or political scenes, the Dark phoenix arc is also highly focused on with plenty of emotion and character scenes through out each arc is given just as much focus as the Stryker arc from X2 but both probably have more emotional depth in my opinion anyway.

It's true Stryker doesn't emotionally emotionally relate to the X-Men much (but he does to Wolverine, Xavier and Magneto and he represents intolerance that all the characters have to deal with) and Phoenix likewise does to Wolverine, Magneto and Xavier but she's a pretty small part of Magneto's agenda in TLS and you would think and expect that more of the X-Men would emotionally relate to and struggle with Phoenix.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:08 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com, A property of Mandatory, a divison of AtomicOnline, LLC © 2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.