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-   -   am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker?? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=247914)

spider-neil 08-25-2006 02:33 AM

am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
I'm read joker for long long time and when I picture joker the voice I hear in my head is hamill when I see joker I see 'the killing joke' and 'the return of the joker' (B:tas feature film)

THAT to me is joker. so who tells esoteric jokes (only he unders the punchline) he is dark witty charming and deadly.

Nicholson gave a good performance but I don't think his character had depth I was think good 'Nicholson performance' rather than 'THAT's joker' you know the scene where batman/bale interrogates the dirty cop THAT was batman to a tee, bale NAILED it right there and then.

so basically Nicholson gets a 'A' for effort but doesn't quite 'get' the joker. here's hoping nolan reads the killing joke and watches the return of the joker the quintessential joke stories and ledger gives the performance of his career.

anyone else agree?

Excel 08-25-2006 02:37 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
h nailed the over the top, larger then life type.

but he was aweful when it came to being menacing and sadistic.

E-Mack 08-25-2006 02:42 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Nicholson nailed part of the Joker that we know. But not competely. And no, I don't think he simply just played himself. That's quite an insult to someone of his immense talent.

ChrisBaleBatman 08-25-2006 02:43 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
He got a part of it. Not all of it, but a good chunk of it he did get.

vibeke_T 08-25-2006 02:54 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spider-neil
I'm read joker for long long time and when I picture joker the voice I hear in my head is hamill when I see joker I see 'the killing joke' and 'the return of the joker' (B:tas feature film)

THAT to me is joker. so who tells esoteric jokes (only he unders the punchline) he is dark witty charming and deadly.

Nicholson gave a good performance but I don't think his character had depth I was think good 'Nicholson performance' rather than 'THAT's joker' you know the scene where batman/bale interrogates the dirty cop THAT was batman to a tee, bale NAILED it right there and then.

so basically Nicholson gets a 'A' for effort but doesn't quite 'get' the joker. here's hoping nolan reads the killing joke and watches the return of the joker the quintessential joke stories and ledger gives the performance of his career.

anyone else agree?

I totally agree...in the Burton films it was more like Joker's impression of Jack Nicholson rather than Nicholson really getting into the character of Joker. Thats why the animated series could intricately show Joker's character...all the animated expressions and wonderful voice acting -- for years I didnt even know it was Hamill. Anyhoo

heypapajinx 08-25-2006 03:27 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
i think he did a fantastic job...
"never rub another mans rhubarb"

spider-neil 08-25-2006 04:46 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
don't get when wrong I thought it was a good performance but he didn't NAIL the character.

spider-man -
simmonds NAILS JJJ

superman -
reeve NAILS superman

batman -
bale NAILS batman

nicholson gives a good performance but he wasn't joker.
there is a really chilling moment when joker is speaking to batman after he finds out who he is 'hello...BRUCE...' and his voice is frecking PERFECT.

so basically I though nicholson played a homicidal maniac very well but he didn't play 'THE' homicidal maniac, he wasn't joker. I have high hopes for ledger.

Shedhut 08-25-2006 04:59 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spider-neil
I'm read joker for long long time and when I picture joker the voice I hear in my head is hamill when I see joker I see 'the killing joke' and 'the return of the joker' (B:tas feature film)

THAT to me is joker. so who tells esoteric jokes (only he unders the punchline) he is dark witty charming and deadly.

Nicholson gave a good performance but I don't think his character had depth I was think good 'Nicholson performance' rather than 'THAT's joker' you know the scene where batman/bale interrogates the dirty cop THAT was batman to a tee, bale NAILED it right there and then.

so basically Nicholson gets a 'A' for effort but doesn't quite 'get' the joker. here's hoping nolan reads the killing joke and watches the return of the joker the quintessential joke stories and ledger gives the performance of his career.

anyone else agree?

Nicholsons Joker was the first Jokerinterpretation I ever saw. So imo he nailed it. That took place in a time where Hamill was the looser who didnt succeed anymore after Star Wars.
My point is, any Joker ive seen since then was just an interpretation of Nicholsons Joker to me. No worse or better but I really think it depends on which Joker character you got to know most early rather than this or that is the absolute Joker.

spider-neil 08-25-2006 05:04 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shedhut
Nicholsons Joker was the first Jokerinterpretation I ever saw. So imo he nailed it. That took place in a time where Hamill was the looser who didnt succeed anymore after Star Wars.
My point is, any Joker ive seen since then was just an interpretation of Nicholsons Joker to me. No worse or better but I really think it depends on which Joker character you got to know most early rather than this or that is the absolute Joker.

entitled to your opinion of course but isn't it a little simplistic to say he was first therefore best?

I mean adam west was batman before keaton and bale...

Shedhut 08-25-2006 06:16 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spider-neil
entitled to your opinion of course but isn't it a little simplistic to say he was first therefore best?

I mean adam west was batman before keaton and bale...

Thats acctually not what I was trying to say

"No worse or better but I really think it depends on which Joker character you got to know most early "

...because the first you see kinda sets the benchmark for your opinion. if it is good or bad is another thing. Of course I see flaws in Nicholsons performance when I watch Batman now but the feeling i got watching it when I was in my teens will always be superior.
Lets just say that my emotions and my reason tend to different directions.


if anything is unclear look at my sig:woot: (oh my, it should acctually say "dont try to understand me" :whatever: )

Eros 08-25-2006 06:30 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Nicholosn did a very good job, but ofcourse some versions of he Joker might be different. Whatever works for the world the character is living in, Joker 89 lived in a noirish slightly fantastical Gothic Gotham. Him and Batman were the two weirdest beings in the city, and were so vastly different. Joker was this over the top Physcopath, who got his kicks killing people in grand fashion. Batman was this dark troubled man, who kept his feelings down deep, and didn't crack jokes and wore all black. They were so different they were destined to be mortal enemies. Jack nicholson performance did help make the Joker a very well known villain to the general public, and took away the stigma that JOker was just goof off clown who did robberies, that the 60s batman show presented Joker as.

Im sure nolan and Goyers version of the joker will work[and might be great] for their type of batman film.

spider-neil 08-25-2006 06:48 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eros
Nicholosn did a very good job, but ofcourse some versions of he Joker might be different. Whatever works for the world the character is living in, Joker 89 lived in a noirish slightly fantastical Gothic Gotham. Him and Batman were the two weirdest beings in the city, and were so vastly different. Joker was this over the top Physcopath, who got his kicks killing people in grand fashion. Batman was this dark troubled man, who kept his feelings down deep, and didn't crack jokes and wore all black. They were so different they were destined to be mortal enemies. Jack nicholson performance did help make the Joker a very well known villain to the general public, and took away the stigma that JOker was just goof off clown who did robberies, that the 60s batman show presented Joker as.

Im sure nolan and Goyers version of the joker will work[and might be great] for their type of batman film.

fair comment and I get what you're trying to say I think my original post was basically saying I don't think JN's joker is the quintessential joker as there have been other versions either in print or the small/big screen that have been better.

Fenrir 08-25-2006 07:08 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Joker, like Batman, has had many different interpretations over the years. Nicholson nailed one of them. :up:

ultimatefan 08-25-2006 07:33 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Nicholson nailed the Joker he was asked to play, which is basically a mix of the psychotic killer with the campy clown.

The Sage 08-25-2006 07:58 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Nicholson nailed the Joker of his time. I thought he was perfect. The crew said they wanted to take Joker back to his original appearance when he was menacing, as well as revitalized Joker in the 70s.

Since B89, the Joker evolved and became more psychotic, so the new Joker will probably reflect that. Though I can't see how Nicholson's Joker wasn't sadistic. The guy got a thrill out of frying a guy. If that isn't sadistic...

raybia 08-25-2006 08:26 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spider-neil
I'm read joker for long long time and when I picture joker the voice I hear in my head is hamill when I see joker I see 'the killing joke' and 'the return of the joker' (B:tas feature film)

THAT to me is joker. so who tells esoteric jokes (only he unders the punchline) he is dark witty charming and deadly.

Nicholson gave a good performance but I don't think his character had depth I was think good 'Nicholson performance' rather than 'THAT's joker' you know the scene where batman/bale interrogates the dirty cop THAT was batman to a tee, bale NAILED it right there and then.

so basically Nicholson gets a 'A' for effort but doesn't quite 'get' the joker. here's hoping nolan reads the killing joke and watches the return of the joker the quintessential joke stories and ledger gives the performance of his career.

anyone else agree?

Nicholson performance wasn't Jokerish, it was Nicholsonish. Thats right, Jack just essentially played Jack.

And he's so cool that it worked. Plus, the only other performance of the Joker that people at the time knew of was Cesar Romaro, and outside of Hackman's performance as Luthor, Nicholson's performance of a villian in a Superhero movie was it.

In other words, that performance was great for its time, but wouldn't hold much weight today.

More importantly though it that the Joker we all know an love has yet to grace the silver screen and the best intepretation so far is from TAS.

THAT IS THE STANDARD. Maybe unfairly but thats it.

fabman 08-25-2006 08:35 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Oh my... (fanboy talk...) Jack Nicholson has NAILED what the Joker is... there are many versions of The Joker, that's Tim Burton's / Sam Hamm's. And Jack Nicholson's performance is just extraordinary.

It's just that comic book fans today just want that "hard boiled" thing on screen... y'know and I think even Nolan's Joker will be diff'rent than what you expect...

The Sage 08-25-2006 08:43 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by raybia
Nicholson performance wasn't Jokerish, it was Nicholsonish. Thats right, Jack just essentially played Jack.

And he's so cool that it worked. Plus, the only other performance of the Joker that people at the time knew of was Cesar Romaro, and outside of Hackman's performance as Luthor, Nicholson's performance of a villian in a Superhero movie was it.

In other words, that performance was great for its time, but wouldn't hold much weight today.

More importantly though it that the Joker we all know an love has yet to grace the silver screen and the best intepretation so far is from TAS.

THAT IS THE STANDARD. Maybe unfairly but thats it.

Can't agree on this. I think Nicholson's Joker would hold up well today. What is it about his Joker that doesn't hold up? I know the Joker is more psychotic, but other than that, what's wrong with Nicholson's Joker? How was he not the Joker we know and love?

raybia 08-25-2006 08:48 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fabman
Oh my... (fanboy talk...) Jack Nicholson has NAILED what the Joker is... there are many versions of The Joker, that's Tim Burton's / Sam Hamm's. And Jack Nicholson's performance is just extraordinary.

It's just that comic book fans today just want that "hard boiled" thing on screen... y'know and I think even Nolan's Joker will be diff'rent than what you expect...

Well, the Joker will vary from writer to writer in the comics but essentially want you want is a "All-Star Joker" type of portrayal where you nail the essence of character.

So with that in mind, the stories that Nolan is using as a basis for his Joker should be the core of the character and while close to the TAS version, it will be a borderline PG-13/R version.

Man, I can't wait!

fabman 08-25-2006 08:53 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Well, you all think you'll actually get a "hardboiled", Patient J / Dead End Joker, don't ya? (Pretty awful versions of The Clown Prince of Crime anyway)... Anyway I think we'll get a 1940 Joker mixed with O'Neil/Adam, Loeb/Sale, Morrison, Moore/Bolland, Miller version of The Joker.

raybia 08-25-2006 09:12 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fabman
Well, you all think you'll actually get a "hardboiled", Patient J / Dead End Joker, don't ya? (Pretty awful versions of The Clown Prince of Crime anyway)... Anyway I think we'll get a 1940 Joker mixed with O'Neil/Adam, Loeb/Sale, Morrison, Moore/Bolland, Miller version of The Joker.

To get to get an idea of Nolan's Joker just refer to The Killing Joke, Batman #1 (1940), and "The Joker's Five-way Revenge."

spider-neil 08-25-2006 09:13 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
the return of the joker for me is the quintessential joker. his voice is muted and down played but there is a menace about it

there is a classic scene where he tells the gang to do a job and the fat guy (whose name escapes me) challenges him, joker doesn't get angry or loses his temper but you can 'FEEL' the menace brewing, THAT for me is joker the theatrics are in the scams he pulls (i.e. smiles on fishes faces) not in the character of joker himself.

alan moore's killing joke is perfect
the dark night return's future joker is perfect
mark hamill's joker is perfect
JN joker is nicholson given a very good peformance of nicholson being crazy but it wasn't joker or at least he wasn't the joker 'I' wanted to see.

Super_Ludacris 08-25-2006 09:15 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
He didnt nail at all but it was one of the best performances of his career. If that makes any sense.

The Sage 08-25-2006 09:19 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spider-neil
the return of the joker for me is the quintessential joker. his voice is muted and down played but there is a menace about it

there is a classic scene where he tells the gang to do a job and the fat guy (whose name escapes me) challenges him, joker doesn't get angry or loses his temper but you can 'FEEL' the menace brewing, THAT for me is joker the theatrics are in the scams he pulls (i.e. smiles on fishes faces) not in the character of joker himself.

alan moore's killing joke is perfect
the dark night return's future joker is perfect
mark hamill's joker is perfect
JN joker is nicholson given a very good peformance of nicholson being crazy but it wasn't joker or at least he wasn't the joker 'I' wanted to see.

What do you mean "the theatrics are in the scams he pulls not in the character of joker himself"?

Mee 08-25-2006 09:21 AM

Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??
 
It was a great performance for what it was, but it wasn't really Joker. At least, not as we know him today. But, Burton changed all the villains to fit his vision, Joker was a sign of things to come.


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