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-   -   The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=312401)

Angamb 09-28-2008 03:54 PM

The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
After Ironman success, then The Incredible Hulk and Marvel plan to create a big franchise with the Avengers....

do you think it could be the end of the x-men saga?

Ironman was a bigger success than X-men: The Last Stand, that's really relevant.

The next Marvel movies will be Ironman 2, Thor, Captain America and the so much awaited Avengers movie.

We can say that will be a really big event, Ironman, Hulk, Thor, Captain America and more all together, this movie willl be big, and will have a great impact in the boxoffice, maybe in the line of Spiderman films, we don't know yet...

but the issue is the x-men franchise.... do you think the audience will loose interest in them with the Avengers movies in the next years?

BMM 09-28-2008 05:47 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
In my opinion, it's too soon to say how The Avengers will affect the X-Men franchise. Not enough is known about Thor or Captain America. If Thor and Captain America resonate as well with audiences as Iron Man did, then The Avengers could steal some of the X-Men's thunder. Of course, that's assuming that everything falls into place and The Avengers is a hit. Right now, I think the biggest detriment to the X-Men franchise, if any, will be the X-Men films themselves. Audiences will lose interest in the X-Men franchise, if the films continue to decline in quality and fail to meet audience expectations. Other than that, it's too soon to say, as their are too many unknown variables that have yet to come into play.

SNIKT1950 09-28-2008 10:03 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
The Avengers franchise has NOTHING to do with The X-MEN franchise.

Its just testament of another studio rallying the troops for the Summer blockbuster war.

FOX was on top for a few years until SONY's Spider Man movies took over.

Now we got Warner Bros. with their Billion Dollar Batman franchise that hasn't even entered its third installment.

FOX will continue to make X-MEN movies.

SONY will continue to make Spider Man movies.

Warner Bros. will continue to make Batman movies.

*MARVEL will continue making Avengers movies.

Snikt 09-29-2008 12:02 AM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Pluse, fromt the looks of things, I'd say "Wolverine" will be a good movie next summer. Plus it has the "Iron Man" advantage. Being the first big movie of the summer.

And if we know FOX, they will market the hell out of this film and make sure the public knows it's coming. You guys gotta give FOX credit, they do know how to market their big movies. Couple years ago I couldn't watch any show on TV without seeing a preview for X3

Angamb 09-29-2008 06:33 AM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIKT1950 (Post 15737608)
The Avengers franchise has NOTHING to do with The X-MEN franchise.

Its just testament of another studio rallying the troops for the Summer blockbuster war.

FOX was on top for a few years until SONY's Spider Man movies took over.

Now we got Warner Bros. with their Billion Dollar Batman franchise that hasn't even entered its third installment.

FOX will continue to make X-MEN movies.

SONY will continue to make Spider Man movies.

Warner Bros. will continue to make Batman movies.

*MARVEL will continue making Avengers movies.

I think you didn't understand the point, snikt.

We're talking about the audience... and the interest in the x-men.

Ironman and Dark night have surpasss X-men numbers, Dark night was a bomb, bigger than Spiderman, and Ironman being the first movie and surpassing X-men 3, that's really relevant.

Ironman 2 probably will have a better boxoffice than the first, and with The Avengers, people could end loving that franchise, and start forgeting the x-men.... that's the point.

Avengers movie is 3 years since now, but I'm sure it will have a big impact in the boxoffice, bigger than Ironman, and obviously, bigger than X-men.

will Fox make X-men 4?..... we don't know yet....

will Marvel do Avengers 2?.... that's for sure.

the a1ant 09-29-2008 08:59 AM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
^I think it's way too early to say that there would be an Avengers 2. We first have to see if Captain America and Thor are box office gold (like Iron Man). We also have to see if bringing these heroes together will actually work on the big screen before even thinking about a sequel.

The audience will not lose interest, if quality X-Men films are made. With so many characters at their disposal, the franchise can go in so many directions and last for decades, imo.

The franchise never really reached its full potential, so it can be so much bigger.

Angamb 09-29-2008 09:29 AM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
I'm agreed, the a1ant.

but do you think Fox will make a really great X-men 4?

with the quality of Ironman and Dark knight?.....

There's nothing more I wish..... but it seems Fox is unable of doing it.

Cyma 09-29-2008 01:04 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
I donít think it will be the end of X-men. It has three TV series, three movies and another one on the way. And like a1ant mentioned, with so many characters, the franchise can go on for decades.

Only saw the two Avengers animated movies so have very little knowledge about them. But they sort of remind me of the Justice League, fighting threats to Earth and getting hero-worshiped. And their powers are wellÖ..man-made or mystical. That makes them really different from the X-men.

I donít think there will be an X-men 4 :csad: But a reboot like Hulk. And X-men being good quality-wise like Iron man or Dark Knight? If Marvel makes the movie, then itís possible.

Snikt 09-29-2008 01:06 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Angamb (Post 15739016)
I'm agreed, the a1ant.

but do you think Fox will make a really great X-men 4?

with the quality of Ironman and Dark knight?.....

There's nothing more I wish..... but it seems Fox is unable of doing it.

Well, let's look at this way. FOX wants to make money, like all studios do and they want to make quality movies, like most studios do. In they're eyes, I'm sure they believed they did an awesome job with the X-Men Trilogy. Which for all intents and purposes, they did a good job.

None of the X-Men movies were crucified for being the worst comic book movie ever made. Each of their movies made more than the last one, as in X1<X2<X3.

Now hopefully, after seeing the Dark Knight and Iron Man, they can see and understand, you can have a 2 + Hr. comic movie and not worry about sacrificing character or plot.

I love all 3 of the X-Men movies and I look forward to a 4th one, whenever that may take place. And I hope X-Men Origins: Wolverine, kicks major booty

X-Maniac 09-29-2008 07:00 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snikt (Post 15739892)
Well, let's look at this way. FOX wants to make money, like all studios do and they want to make quality movies, like most studios do. In they're eyes, I'm sure they believed they did an awesome job with the X-Men Trilogy. Which for all intents and purposes, they did a good job.

I think Fox must also be aware of their failings with the series. The movies turned out reasonably well but often fall short of their potential, either through underfunding or through poor judgment in technical areas such as directing/writing/acting/casting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snikt (Post 15739892)
None of the X-Men movies were crucified for being the worst comic book movie ever made. Each of their movies made more than the last one, as in X1<X2<X3.

It's worth noting that X2 made the most profit, according to BoxOfficeMojo. For a budget of $110m it made $408million, a profit of $298million! While X3 was made for $210m and produced $459m at the box office, a profit of $249million. However, According to TheNumbers website, X2 had a $125million budget and a $406million box office, a profit of $281million while X3 had a $150m budget and a $459m box office, a profit of $309m. Either way, the box office of X3 didn't soar as high as many expected. It should have hit the $500million mark really.

While I don't rave on about X2 like many people do, it is a more consistent film than X3. Having seen all three films back to back in IMAX, the differences and deficiencies in each film were very apparent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snikt (Post 15739892)
Now hopefully, after seeing the Dark Knight and Iron Man, they can see and understand, you can have a 2 + Hr. comic movie and not worry about sacrificing character or plot.

Well, they did already allow X2 to exceed two hours. In fact it could have been longer if several key sequences weren't cut from the script. What's most amazing is the running time of X3 - most people believe it to have been too short for the momentous storylines it was trying to support. When are we getting an Extended Edition???

JustABill 09-29-2008 07:24 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
The Avengers would never equal the end of the X-Men.

Two entirely different teams, doing entirely different things. And The Avengers is a very limited franchise. There's only so much you can do with the Avengers compared to the X-Men.

FaT_tONle 09-29-2008 09:50 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Angamb (Post 15735817)
After Ironman success, then The Incredible Hulk and Marvel plan to create a big franchise with the Avengers....

do you think it could be the end of the x-men saga?

Ironman was a bigger success than X-men: The Last Stand, that's really relevant.

The next Marvel movies will be Ironman 2, Thor, Captain America and the so much awaited Avengers movie.

We can say that will be a really big event, Ironman, Hulk, Thor, Captain America and more all together, this movie willl be big, and will have a great impact in the boxoffice, maybe in the line of Spiderman films, we don't know yet...

but the issue is the x-men franchise.... do you think the audience will loose interest in them with the Avengers movies in the next years?

Finally... you are becoming a Jedi Knight my Young Padawan...

Snikt 09-29-2008 10:03 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by X-Maniac (Post 15741816)
I think Fox must also be aware of their failings with the series. The movies turned out reasonably well but often fall short of their potential, either through underfunding or through poor judgment in technical areas such as directing/writing/acting/casting.



It's worth noting that X2 made the most profit, according to BoxOfficeMojo. For a budget of $110m it made $408million, a profit of $298million! While X3 was made for $210m and produced $459m at the box office, a profit of $249million. However, According to TheNumbers website, X2 had a $125million budget and a $406million box office, a profit of $281million while X3 had a $150m budget and a $459m box office, a profit of $309m. Either way, the box office of X3 didn't soar as high as many expected. It should have hit the $500million mark really.

While I don't rave on about X2 like many people do, it is a more consistent film than X3. Having seen all three films back to back in IMAX, the differences and deficiencies in each film were very apparent.



Well, they did already allow X2 to exceed two hours. In fact it could have been longer if several key sequences weren't cut from the script. What's most amazing is the running time of X3 - most people believe it to have been too short for the momentous storylines it was trying to support. When are we getting an Extended Edition???

I agree with a lot of what you said. But after seeing the deleted scenes from X3, all of them, not just the 11 or so the USA received, there really wasn't much cut that would've added any real substance to the movie.

I also don't like to rave about X2, because there are faults within that movie as well, as there are faults with all movies. No movie is perfect, even The Dark Knight.

I loved TDK, but I don't believe it is the "end all" of comic movies.

Angamb 10-12-2008 03:19 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FaT_tONle (Post 15742769)
Finally... you are becoming a Jedi Knight my Young Padawan...

sorry, but don't understand what you say, hehe.

Jedi is something from Star Wars, true?

FaT_tONle 10-12-2008 07:53 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
I agree that Avengers = the end of X-Men for some time... not including spinoffs... X-Men 4 is a ways away IMO. I am thinking 2014-2018ish. We'll see another trilogy eventually though. Whether Fox or Marvel ends up doing it I don't know.

The Batman 01-06-2009 10:50 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
I'm really glad somewhat brought this up...

the X-Franchise is second to spider-man's..and yet, no x film has yet to break 300 mill...while iron man has done it....a film based on an, at best, upper second tier marvel hero played by an actor who hadnt done a mainstream role in years....

people can complain about how silly the costumes look and how things needed to be realistic....but ultimately, im starting to think this ultimately held the franchise back

BMM 01-07-2009 01:06 AM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
I think that's debatable, but you may have a point. That said, X-Men 3 should have easily broken $300 million. Its opening weekend numbers are evidence of that, but it failed to meet audience expectations. After 2003, and even now, I think the X-Men franchise has been in a place in which the next installment can break $300 million, and I think Wolverine may do it (as long as it's not a let down).

X-Maniac 01-07-2009 04:13 AM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BMM (Post 16228869)
I think that's debatable, but you may have a point. That said, X-Men 3 should have easily broken $300 million. Its opening weekend numbers are evidence of that, but it failed to meet audience expectations. After 2003, and even now, I think the X-Men franchise has been in a place in which the next installment can break $300 million, and I think Wolverine may do it (as long as it's not a let down).

I think it largely met audience expectations, I saw it on opening weekend and it was clearly enjoyed by the audiences. It just didn't meet the expectations of many fans and fanboys, who were upset over Cyclops/Rogue/Ratner and whipped up bad word of mouth.

MessiahDecoy123 01-07-2009 04:43 AM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
After an epic Avengers movie the X-men film makers will have to step up their game to gather much interest. That means sentinels-done-right and full screen team battle sequences.

BMM 01-07-2009 05:30 AM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by X-Maniac (Post 16229115)
I think it largely met audience expectations, I saw it on opening weekend and it was clearly enjoyed by the audiences. It just didn't meet the expectations of many fans and fanboys, who were upset over Cyclops/Rogue/Ratner and whipped up bad word of mouth.

I'm more inclined to agree with this earlier post of yours...

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-Maniac (Post 14935920)
X3 clearly didn't meet expectations (especially fan expectations), and was harmed by bad word of mouth and mixed reviews.

In its remaining theatrical run, The Last Stand was unable to match what it made in its first four days. To my knowledge, that doesn't happen very often, even amongst bombs like Speed Racer. There's a reason for that. In my opinion, the movie didn't meet audience expectations, and it hurt the movie's performance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 (Post 16229163)
After an epic Avengers movie the X-men film makers will have to step up their game to gather much interest. That means sentinels-done-right and full screen team battle sequences.

After this summer alone, I would hope the X-Men film makers step-up their game.

EnDz0n3 01-07-2009 09:40 AM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Angamb (Post 15738710)
Ironman 2 probably will have a better boxoffice than the first,

Not necessarily. The X-men movies were an anomaly in the box office world in that each successive sequel accumulated more money than the previous film (regardless of profits, etc.) Most blockbusters, especially those with initial movies that receive extraordinary reception from audiences, struggle to reach box office numbers comparable to those of the first movie with each sequel.

X-Maniac 01-07-2009 10:40 AM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BMM (Post 16229225)
I'm more inclined to agree with this earlier post of yours...

Those two posts were essentially saying very similar things though. I certainly don't recall 'normal' people on the streets recoiling with horror at the thought of X3, either before it or after it, nor did i hear bad word. Even though it could have been better/deeper/longer etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMM (Post 16229225)
In its remaining theatrical run, The Last Stand was unable to match what it made in its first four days. To my knowledge, that doesn't happen very often, even amongst bombs like Speed Racer. There's a reason for that. In my opinion, the movie didn't meet audience expectations, and it hurt the movie's performance.

I'd love to know the exact reasons. But remember the film's domestic total beat (in the same year) Casino Royale, Superman Returns, Da Vinci Code, Happy Feet and Ice Age: The Meltdown among others. And yet oddly failed to match or beat Night at the Museum. Casino Royale had a very modest USA box office, quite oddly. All that shows it's quite a complicated thing to analyse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMM (Post 16229225)
After this summer alone, I would hope the X-Men film makers step-up their game.

I'm always hopeful of that.

BMM 01-07-2009 02:37 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by X-Maniac (Post 16229892)
I certainly don't recall 'normal' people on the streets recoiling with horror at the thought of X3, either before it or after it, nor did i hear bad word. Even though it could have been better/deeper/longer etc.

I didn't imply that though. I simply said the movie didn't meet audience expectations, a point you acknowledge as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-Maniac (Post 16229892)
I'd love to know the exact reasons. But remember the film's domestic total beat (in the same year) Casino Royale, Superman Returns, Da Vinci Code, Happy Feet and Ice Age: The Meltdown among others. And yet oddly failed to match or beat Night at the Museum. Casino Royale had a very modest USA box office, quite oddly. All that shows it's quite a complicated thing to analyse.

Right. Based on its opening weekend performance, it should have beaten those movies. Its Memorial Day weekend numbers alone are enough to place it amongst the top 20 highest grossing movies of 2006. Hence my pointóthe movie opened incredibly strong but began to falter (more than usual?) for one reason reason or another. Perhaps due to bad word of mouth and mixed reviews, as you said?

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-Maniac (Post 16229892)
I'm always hopeful of that.

Me too.

X-Maniac 01-07-2009 03:16 PM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BMM (Post 16231422)
I didn't imply that though. I simply said the movie didn't meet audience expectations, a point you acknowledge as well.

Yep. though I did say 'especially fan expectations' (as I think hardcore fans have more grievances with the film than the mainstream viewer).


Quote:

Right. Based on its opening weekend performance, it should have beaten those movies. Its Memorial Day weekend numbers alone are enough to place it amongst the top 20 highest grossing movies of 2006. Hence my pointóthe movie opened incredibly strong but began to falter (more than usual?) for one reason reason or another. Perhaps due to bad word of mouth and mixed reviews, as you said?
Perhaps so. I just think these things are complex and often hard to rationalise. For instance, Ang's Hulk plunged 70 per cent on its second weekend yet I liked it, my newspaper reviewer loved it and I didn't hear bad things about it. Hard to say how much is public apathy, a failure to meet expectations, how much is bad reviews in the press. I wish we did know though, definitive reasons would be so much better.

It reminds me of when a bar or club is especially quiet or busy - my friends and I used to spend ages trying to work out patterns of human behaviour, to analyse why it was quiet or busy. Often there was no obvious reason! We would try to come up with an explanation but we never really knew and, in the end, we have given up such analyses!

The idea of audience expectations is itself interesting - the fans surely knew what to expect (given the script leaks etc)... and what were mainstream viewers expecting?

psylockolussus 04-16-2013 12:14 AM

Re: The Avengers (2011) = the end of the X-men?
 
LOL @ this thread existing.

The Avengers woke up the execs of FOX to bring back the original cast and now FOX is willing to take this franchise to the next level.


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