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Timstuff 07-19-2009 01:12 PM

Shakespearean English
 
Am I the only one who hopes that they take a cue from Ultimate Thor and drop the corny Shakespearean dialect that Thor uses? I mean I know a lot of people think it's "iconic" and makes him sound "god-like," but I've always wondered-- what on earth does Shakespearean English have to do with ancient Norse mythology? They're two completely different cultures from two completely different time periods, and the accent has always been one of those silly things that people just sort of seem to accept about a character.

Above all else though, I don't think the audience would be able to take the character seriously if he's talking with "thee's" and "thou's." When I saw the Hulk vs. Thor DTV, every time Thor opened his mouth I couldn't help but snicker a little just because his dialogue sounds so corny when someone is actually reading it. If the audience is going to take Thor seriously, I think that their best option would be to make him speak in plain English.

TheCorpulent1 07-19-2009 03:32 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
The Ultimate comics are not the first to drop the Shakespeare-speak; Thor actually started out without it in his earliest appearances under Stan Lee. It was added in some time later to make Thor sound more regal or something, but various writers have chosen not to use it throughout Thor's history--most recently, JMS in the current Thor comics.

I don't personally mind the Shakespeare-speak; it's given us such memorable lines as "Ultron, we would have words with thee" in Busiek's Avengers run. But it can make for overly cumbersome dialogue, a shockingly large number of writers have no f***ing clue how to use it properly, and people like Timstuff think it's corny, so I voted no, it should not be in the movie. Thor is relatively obscure to the general public and his world is vastly different from most other major comic book characters'; it's not what you expect to see when someone mentions "this movie's based on a comic book." So the odds are stacked against his movie being a huge success as it is. Anything that can make it more digestible to the general audience, short of betraying the spirit of the classic Thor, is welcome. The fewer obstacles to people enjoying Thor, the better.

Canis Sapiens 07-19-2009 07:08 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
I totally agree with Corp. :up:

green 07-19-2009 07:33 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
If they are going to use it atleast they have a director who is capable of handling it.
Personally I think it's kind of silly but again I trust Branagh with it.

Panthro 07-20-2009 05:42 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
What Corp said.

Shivsguy616 07-20-2009 05:57 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
I just hate that everyone refers to it as "Shakespearean English". Rather ignorant...

Triad 07-20-2009 07:57 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
I totally agree with Corp.
But it wouldn't hurt to throw a few lines in now and again when the moment warrants it, though. 2 or 3 tops.
My favorite Thor is The Ancient Asgard Trilogy & I'd love to hear some lines from that. "Loki, clean Thy mess!"

SuperFerret 07-20-2009 08:00 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
I think a manner of speaking similar to that used in the Lord of the Rings movies would generate the same feel without having the thees and thous.

Aztec 07-20-2009 08:53 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
He's supposed to be Norse. Why in the world would he speak "Shakespearean English"? So silly. The Ultimates got it right (once again).

bossman550 07-21-2009 03:37 AM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
there wont be shakperian dialouge
http://www.firstshowing.net/2009/06/...m-kevin-feige/

Timstuff 07-21-2009 10:47 AM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aztec (Post 17212545)
He's supposed to be Norse. Why in the world would he speak "Shakespearean English"? So silly.

Exactly. Vikings didn't even speak English (because they were from Scandinavia, not Great Britain) and went into decline centuries before Shakesperean dialect even became prominent in England. The Shakespearean dialogue in the comics was only there because the writers knew that it sounded "olde tymey," and assumed that the kids reading the books were too ignorant about ancient history to think beyond "that's how people used to talk."

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman550 (Post 17213738)

Good. :up:

Thunder_god 07-23-2009 01:21 AM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
Umm, Thor is neither a Viking nor is he Norse. He is an Asgardian, and who the hell knows how they speak, really?

I say let the gravitas of the dialogue be injected by the speaker (ala Patrick Stewart, who ALWAYS sounds noble) and not the words themselves.

T

He-Man 07-23-2009 01:22 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
I think they should keep it. I have a feeling Thor is going to be a mix between Classic/Ultimate. Part of the film is going to be set in modern times. A guy going around speaking like that in modern times. People will think he's crazy or a little off based on that alone.

He-Man 07-23-2009 01:39 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman550 (Post 17213738)

Ok. Guess that ends this debate.

Timstuff 07-24-2009 11:24 AM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder_god (Post 17223641)
Umm, Thor is neither a Viking nor is he Norse. He is an Asgardian, and who the hell knows how they speak, really?

They're from Norse mythology, and it doesn't change the fact that the period of Shakespearean English in England had nothing to do with Norse Mythology whatsoever. They might just as well have Thor speaking in Japanese as they would have him speaking Shakespeare-style.

TheCorpulent1 07-24-2009 11:37 AM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
Or, you know, Modern English. Really, is anything other than Old Norse "more accurate" than anything else?

Ace of Knaves 07-24-2009 11:38 AM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
@Timstuff

Well why does he even speak English at all then if you go by that logic?

I think if done well it could be great. Not too bombastic though.

TheCorpulent1 07-24-2009 11:41 AM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
Oddly enough, I'm watching an episode of Transformers where some of the Transformers go back to Camelot (around AD 540, according to the episode) and encounter people speaking--you guessed it--Modern English with "thees" and "thous." Apparently it was a pretty widespread phenomenon back in the day. ;)

Ace of Knaves 07-24-2009 11:43 AM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
Yea it could work like that. Just have him speak regal English and use thee's and thou's or whatever.

I don't see how that could be cheesy if delivered well. As long as the actors ain't completely hamming it up I really don't see the problem.

Mister J 07-24-2009 11:45 AM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
It certainly doesn't need to be overdone, to the point of becoming a point of discussion in itself. However, if I don't get at least one "I say thee, nay!" and a couple of "Aye"s, I'm going to be a little miffed. :o

TheCorpulent1 07-24-2009 11:45 AM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
Eh, whether it makes sense or not, the perception is still that it's goofy to a lot of people. And, when you're trying to sell a movie, perception is everything.

Timstuff 07-24-2009 12:10 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
It doesn't really matter anyway, since it's been confirmed that he's speaking modern english without the goofy "thees" and thous," and rightly so. If he's going to be speaking English, he might as well be speaking it in a way that doesn't make him sound like an ass.

TheCorpulent1 07-24-2009 12:30 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
It never ceases to amaze me that people hate that mode of speech so much. I've encountered people who literally wouldn't read Thor because of it. That absolutely astounds me.

Ace of Knaves 07-24-2009 12:44 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
Yea I don't get that either.

Seriously, how does "thee" or "thou" or "aye" sound goofy?

They are God's, who have been around for centuries. Why would they speak standard English? I think the way they speak makes them more unique and Godly.

TheCorpulent1 07-24-2009 12:45 PM

Re: Shakespearean English
 
I don't think it's necessary, but I also don't think it's some kind of cardinal sin against the written word like some of the people who hate it do.


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