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-   -   Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=347254)

Kevin Roegele 01-28-2011 07:19 PM

Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Shellhead fighting terrorists - fine. Fighting aeroplanes - fine. Fighting one evil Iron Monger - fine.

But Iron Man - alongside a more heavily-armed Iron Man - fighting hordes of Iron Man-based drones, and then an Iron Whiplash....Iron Man isn't unique anymore. He should be called 'an Iron Man, one of many'. What makes him special and unique isn't special or unique anymore.

When you watch Iron Man fighting the terrorists, you see how amazing and awe-inspiring he is. When he's just one of many CGI tin suits on a battlefield, he's no longer intresting any more.

Iron_Stark 01-29-2011 07:25 AM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
It comes with the territory, that's like asking for the X-Men to quit fighting mutants, Spider-Man to quit fighting animal based villains, Batman to quit taking on the mob or disfigured psychopaths, Autobots to stop fighting Decepticons, etc.

But hopefully in part 3 they do bring in Mandarin and not make him Robo Mandarin.

I SEE SPIDEY 01-29-2011 04:55 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Roegele (Post 19596226)
Shellhead fighting terrorists - fine. Fighting aeroplanes - fine. Fighting one evil Iron Monger - fine.

But Iron Man - alongside a more heavily-armed Iron Man - fighting hordes of Iron Man-based drones, and then an Iron Whiplash....Iron Man isn't unique anymore. He should be called 'an Iron Man, one of many'. What makes him special and unique isn't special or unique anymore.

When you watch Iron Man fighting the terrorists, you see how amazing and awe-inspiring he is. When he's just one of many CGI tin suits on a battlefield, he's no longer intresting any more.

You have a great point.

Iron_Stark 01-29-2011 07:00 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Who should he be fighting then? Terrorists again? The mob? Common criminals? Large bunny rabbits? Pick up an Iron Man book and get back to me on who he's mainly fighting.

But I do agree that War Machine should never have been put in this or anyother film.

Kevin Roegele 01-29-2011 08:47 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Stark (Post 19598464)
It comes with the territory, that's like asking for the X-Men to quit fighting mutants, Spider-Man to quit fighting animal based villains, Batman to quit taking on the mob or disfigured psychopaths, Autobots to stop fighting Decepticons, etc.

But hopefully in part 3 they do bring in Mandarin and not make him Robo Mandarin.

Mutants are all incredibly different, that's the point oif them. Magneto is a very different villain to Sabretooth. Sabretooth is very different to Mystique. And so on.

Sure SPidey fights some animal based villains, but they ar eall very different. The Green Goblin was nothing like Doc Ock, who was nothing like the Sandman, who was nothing like Venom. The Lizard will also be completely different.

Again, Batman, Bane is very different to the Joker who is very different to Catwoman, and so on.

Iron Man - it's just a constant supply of guys in adapted versions of the Iron Man armour.

Kevin Roegele 01-29-2011 08:52 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Stark (Post 19601194)
Who should he be fighting then? Terrorists again? The mob? Common criminals? Large bunny rabbits? Pick up an Iron Man book and get back to me on who he's mainly fighting.


Okay...

AIM
MODOK
Count Nefaria
The Ghost
The Grey Gargoyle
Madame Masque
The Spymaster

Iron_Stark 01-29-2011 08:57 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Whiplash was completly different than Iron Monger, as were the drones, completely different movesets and weapons. The only thing they had in common was that they were metal. Try again.

Kevin Roegele 01-29-2011 09:03 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Stark (Post 19601614)
Whiplash was completly different than Iron Monger, as were the drones, completely different movesets and weapons. The only thing they had in common was that they were metal. Try again.

You see, movesets and weapons don't make for great villains. Whiplash was fine in his first battle, but at the climax he was just Iron Monger again, with whips.

Iron_Stark 01-29-2011 09:07 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Roegele (Post 19601586)
Okay...

AIM
MODOK
Count Nefaria
The Ghost
The Grey Gargoyle
Madame Masque
The Spymaster

The Ten Rings were used instead of AIM
Count Nefaria is mainly an Avengers villain plus I doubt Favreau would want to use a mobster that's the combination of Ra's and Superman
Ghost couldn't carry a movie on his own
Grey Gargoyle is a Thor villain
Madame Masque would be another Justin Hammer
Spymaster see Ghost

Edit

MODOK? Lulz he would've never been used in the movie. And you think Favs had a problem with Mandarin, yikes!

Iron_Stark 01-29-2011 09:14 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Roegele (Post 19601642)
You see, movesets and weapons don't make for great villains. Whiplash was fine in his first battle, but at the climax he was just Iron Monger again, with whips.

Well that I agree with and my biggest beef with this movie. Instead of ILM and Legacy Studios spending time, money and sfx on War Machine all of that could've gone towards Whiplash and more memorable suits instead of giving him a generic half assed suit at the end.

Dark Raven 01-30-2011 06:43 AM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Stark (Post 19601660)
The Ten Rings were used instead of AIM
Count Nefaria is mainly an Avengers villain plus I doubt Favreau would want to use a mobster that's the combination of Ra's and Superman
Ghost couldn't carry a movie on his own
Grey Gargoyle is a Thor villain
Madame Masque would be another Justin Hammer
Spymaster see Ghost

Edit

MODOK? Lulz he would've never been used in the movie. And you think Favs had a problem with Mandarin, yikes!

Count Nefaria did appear in Iron Man, as he was the father of Madame Masque, and Masque was a constant storyline in the comic.

Ghost - well it's arguable that Whiplash in the comics couldn't carry a movie on his own either. The way he would be written, he would be made to be a compelling villain.

Grey Gargoyle did run in with Iron Man a few times, and was even in the 90s Iron Man toy line, so he is maybe more associated with Shellhead than Thor.

Madame Masque is nothing like Hammer - she's more like Black Widow combined with Viper (the head of Hydra). She was always seeking revenge for a) the apparent death of her father (he wasn't actually dead) b) being spurrned by Iron Man as a former lover b) because she had a personal grudge against Bethany Cabe, Tony's later girlfriend who was a physical match for her.

Spymaster - see Ghost.

Iron_Stark 01-30-2011 09:59 AM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Raven (Post 19603052)
Count Nefaria did appear in Iron Man, as he was the father of Madame Masque, and Masque was a constant storyline in the comic.

Ghost - well it's arguable that Whiplash in the comics couldn't carry a movie on his own either. The way he would be written, he would be made to be a compelling villain.

Grey Gargoyle did run in with Iron Man a few times, and was even in the 90s Iron Man toy line, so he is maybe more associated with Shellhead than Thor.

Madame Masque is nothing like Hammer - she's more like Black Widow combined with Viper (the head of Hydra). She was always seeking revenge for a) the apparent death of her father (he wasn't actually dead) b) being spurrned by Iron Man as a former lover b) because she had a personal grudge against Bethany Cabe, Tony's later girlfriend who was a physical match for her.

Spymaster - see Ghost.

And again, I highly doubt Favreau would've wanted to use a Superman in his film. As far as future films sure, but then the question is, do they make him a Superman or just a regular guy. If he is a regular guy, who's going to be the physical threat? are they going to bring in the Dreadnoughts or is IM just going to be lopsidedly beating up on mobsters? Ok lets do the Dreadnought, oh but wait, "why is Iron Man fighting 10 foot tall robots again?"

Ghost would be fine in future films as long as he's just the underling to a bigger bad like Mandarin, Crimson Dynamo or Titanium Man.

Wah??? GG only appeared twice in the Iron Man comics, waaay back in issue #235 & #236 (fyi, they're at 500). But even if he is considered an IM villain, he's at the bottom of the barrel.

I know that about MM, but what I was trying to say is she wouldn't be a physical threat to IM, that's what her Dreadnought robots are for, which goes back to the old, "why is Iron Man fighting 10 foot tall robots again?".

Spymaster, like you said, see Ghost.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Madame Masque, Ghost, Spymaster etc. make it into these films because of the psychological threat they bring in but as far as the physical threat, like I said before, it comes with the territory.

Spider-Fan 01-30-2011 01:41 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Iron Man has non-armored villains, and I agree. These villains need to be used. We've had two Iron Men. Anymore is overkill.

SuperFerret 01-30-2011 01:48 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Iron Man's non-armored villains had better be bullet/rocket/repulsor proof or at least durable enough to, I dunno, actually fight Iron Man, or else it'll be a short movie.

Look at Iron Man 2, Whiplash was "fine in his first battle, but at the climax he was just Iron Monger again, with whips", which is true, and also probably because Vanko wanted to kill Stark in person, and he got his ass completely kicked in the first "battle" (if you can call two one-sided conflicts that occur back to back a battle) as soon as Tony got his armor on. He built himself Iron Man-like armor because (1) he was already using the same or similar tech, and (2) he needed to protect himself.

Spider-Fan 01-30-2011 01:52 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Just update a villain like the Living Laser or use the Mandarin. The Living Laser I think would be cool, myself. I'd also consider Whirlwind.

SuperFerret 01-30-2011 02:11 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Whirlwind would wind up being an "evil Iron Man".

Iron_Stark 01-30-2011 02:13 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFerret (Post 19604802)
Iron Man's non-armored villains had better be bullet/rocket/repulsor proof or at least durable enough to, I dunno, actually fight Iron Man, or else it'll be a short movie.

Look at Iron Man 2, Whiplash was "fine in his first battle, but at the climax he was just Iron Monger again, with whips", which is true, and also probably because Vanko wanted to kill Stark in person, and he got his ass completely kicked in the first "battle" (if you can call two one-sided conflicts that occur back to back a battle) as soon as Tony got his armor on. He built himself Iron Man-like armor because (1) he was already using the same or similar tech, and (2) he needed to protect himself.

Exactly, if they're not durable then the whole movie will be just like Iron Man vs the terrorists in Gulmira, one big lopsided ass kicking.

It'd be boring and Iron Man would turn into the ultimate Mary Sue/Gary Stu.

Spider-Fan 01-30-2011 03:16 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFerret (Post 19604964)
Whirlwind would wind up being an "evil Iron Man".

If he is not based on Stark Tech, and something else, it would be different. The problem is all the Stark Tech people are just like Iron Man. If you theme them like a Blizzard, Whirlwind, etc. then it wouldn't be as reptitive.

Iron_Stark 01-30-2011 03:49 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Whiplash and the drones were all Hammer tech and people are still calling them IM clones.

Plus Whirlwind has as much armor as the other villains.

Spider-Fan 01-30-2011 06:04 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Stark (Post 19605878)
Whiplash and the drones were all Hammer tech and people are still calling them IM clones.

Plus Whirlwind has as much armor as the other villains.

Because they looked and worked TOO similarly to Stark tech. At least, Whiplash final fight did. They weren't distinct enough. It worked okay for IM2, but you can't keep using those designs. You need to change them up, at the very least.

Like I said, use a guy like Whirlwind. Yes, he is tech based, but he looks and fights with a vastly different style, thus it would be different. You just can't have enemies who work like Iron Man all the time. It gets boring.

Iron_Stark 01-30-2011 06:27 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan (Post 19607121)
Because they looked and worked TOO similarly to Stark tech. At least, Whiplash final fight did. They weren't distinct enough. It worked okay for IM2, but you can't keep using those designs. You need to change them up, at the very least.

Like I said, use a guy like Whirlwind. Yes, he is tech based, but he looks and fights with a vastly different style, thus it would be different. You just can't have enemies who work like Iron Man all the time. It gets boring.

No doubt, they completly screwed over Whiplash by giving him that generic looking suit at the end. They should've given him the updated comic version as his Mark II armor then a completly new memorable look and color as his Mark III armor. But I guess War Machine was more important to them.

If they ever do Crimson Dynamo he needs his a red suit and his electrical attacks. And for Titanium Man they need to make him sleek, 12 feet tall, green, with his signature helmet.

Done right none of these villains should come off looking like clones.

Spider-Fan 01-30-2011 06:46 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
I'd rather they go with someone more themed, ala Whirlwind, Living Laser, or Blizzard than Titanium Man or Crimson Dynamo. Dynamo was just kind of done last film, as Whiplash was a merger of him and Dynamo. Plus, Dynamo and Titanium Man's powers are too similar to Iron Man himself. At least a themed character, like Whirlwind, Blizzard, etc. would have more themed tech and be truly distinct.

Spidey_62 01-30-2011 06:49 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
I'm hoping we see the Mandarin as Jon Faverau was keen on doing.

Iron_Stark 01-30-2011 07:11 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Yeah Mandarin is a must for the next one. Anyone else would be a flat out disapointment.

SuperFerret 01-30-2011 07:30 PM

Re: Iron Man needs to stop fighting evil Iron Men
 
Even Fin Fang Foom?


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