TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

If not, who is?

I voted that he's tied along side Darth Vader.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villian of all time?
 

He is my favorite film villain!

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villian of all time?
 

I don't know about the best film villain, but definitely the best comic book film villain.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villian of all time?
 

One of the best, yes. But there are so many others that are up there.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villian of all time?
 

THE best? oh god no, he was just perfect for THIS type of Batman

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villian of all time?
 

He may not even be the best Joker.


:joker: :joker: :joker:

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villian of all time?
 

I wouldn't say best, no way. He was great but cinema is full of amazing villians.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villian of all time?
 

there isnt a best Joker when its only been done twice lol

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villian of all time?
 

You do realize that between two nouns, there can indeed be a "best"? Right?



:joker: :joker: :joker:

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villian of all time?
 

He's one of the best. Cinema is full of amazing and memorable villains and I think Heath's Joker is definitely up there with them.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

I'd like to hear some examples of film villains people think are better. Just curious.

Someone said Darth Vader, who is a pretty tough icon to beat. I'm hoping to hear a few names in particular.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Here's AFI's Top 20


Dr. Hannibal Lecter (Anthony Hopkins) in The Silence of the Lambs (1991)
Norman Bates (Anthony Perkins) in Psycho (1960)
Darth Vader (David Prowse/James Earl Jones) in The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
The Wicked Witch of the West (Margaret Hamilton) in The Wizard of Oz (1939)
Nurse Ratched (Louise Fletcher) in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975)
Mr. Potter (Lionel Barrymore) in It's A Wonderful Life (1946)
Alex Forrest (Glenn Close) in Fatal Attraction (1987)
Phyllis Dietrichson (Barbara Stanwyck) in Double Indemnity (1944)
Regan MacNeil (Satan) (Linda Blair) in The Exorcist (1973)
The Queen (voice of Lucille LaVerne) in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Michael Corleone (Al Pacino) in The Godfather, Part II (1974)
Alex DeLarge (Malcolm McDowell) in A Clockwork Orange (1971)
HAL 9000 (voice of Douglas Rain) in 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
The Alien (Bolaji Badejo) in Alien (1979)
Amon Goeth (Ralph Fiennes) in Schindler's List (1993)
Noah Cross (John Huston) in Chinatown (1974)
Annie Wilkes (Kathy Bates) in Misery (1990)
The Shark in Jaws (1975)
Captain Bligh (Charles Laughton) in Mutiny on the Bounty (1935)
Man in Bambi (1942)


:boba::boba::boba:

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

I would say he is up there, but I don't know if you can say he was the best ever. When I think of iconic film villains I think of Joker(from both films), Vader, and Hannibal.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Definitely not the best of them all, that's just ridiculous and a little insulting. I'd say a few of the best are

Darth Vader
Freddy Kruger
Michael Myers
Hannibal Lecter
The Terminator
Gozer the Gozerian
Biff Tannen
Le Chiffre
Pennywise the Clown
Norman Bates
Chucky

and many more. Heath may be one of them, but he's definitely not the best or most iconic unless you only watch Nolan films

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

The Joker is far and away better than all of those listed. On a mental and visual level. He's a truly dynamic character. Darth Vader and Hannibal Lecter are the only others that come close. To put Chucky and Le Chiffre and Gozer on the same list is insane.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Dude he isn't the best villain of all cinematic time. You probably didn't pay attention to Heaths work until TDK, which is ****ing pathetic when it comes down to how the villain affects the story. Ghostbusters was a huge success if you actually knew about it, Stay Puft Gozer was incredibly funny and creative so don't bash something you couldn't explain because you've had your eyes glued to ONE RECENT performance.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Gozer is like...a throwaway character with little screen time...they needed to give a face to a main villain. No one in the general public thinks about or remembers the villains of Ghostbusters except Slimer and the iconic Stay Puft. Don't be blinded as a Ghostbusters fan. I love Ghostbusters. One of my favorite franchises. I'd venture to say that Peter Venkman is one of my favorite protagonists in a film ever. But I don't think Gozer is even elligble for the hierarcy of film villains. And trust me I know Ghostbusters. Real Ghostbusters. Extreme Ghostbusters. Ghostbusters 2. etc. So I'm with you as a fan, but I refuse to acknowledge Gozer as even action figure worthy let alone list worthy. There have been some good villains in the animated canon of GB though, such as Sam Hain and The Boogeyman.

And no no I did pay attention to Heath's work. Brokeback. Dogtown. The Patriot. He's been great in all of his films, shame he never made it to Tree of Life. Would have been interesting to see him in place of the Brad Pitt character. So not only a good Joker, but also a good actor in general. I realize when something is overwhelmingly popular (as the Joker was) there will always be some naysayers and people that find the success transparent, etc etc. but I personally think (and again this thread and others are just matters of opinion not worth getting angry over) that Heath's Joker is a great character.

And I love Jack's Joker too so it's not like I'm just going to gush over Ledger. It's a hard call over which of them is "better." Like comparing apples and oranges. But the character of Ledger's Joker resonated with me more than any other villain on screen that I've seen so yes is what I voted for. And you should also know that I'm a HUGE skeptic of the Nolan franchise. I liked nothing about it UNTIL Heath's Joker and he remains the only thing I like about it.

Now some other villains that I think are definitly up there with Joker, Vader, Hannibal are:

The T-1000 (terminator 2)
Amon Goeth-Schindler's List
Hans Gruber (Die Hard)
Anton Chighur (No Country for Old men)
Scar (The Lion King)
Hans Landa (inglorious Basterds)

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

....Stay Puft was Gozer....

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

joker is no where near the level of darth vader and hannible lecter.
I actually prefer hans gruber to joker as well.
I will say though that ledger's joker is top 5.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

I'll get you my pretty, and your little dog too!


:doom: :doom: :doom:

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Agreed.

Alfred Molina's Doc Ock is more iconic than the likes of Gozer and LeChiffre. If you're going to list Bond villains then list the likes of Blofeld, Goldfinger, Oddjob and Jaws.

What kind of silly logic is this? You wouldn't know about half of the villains on your list, especially the likes of Gozer or LeChirffe, unless you've seen the movies they're in. Heath's Joker is already being parodied in other stuff.

The Office, for example:

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

He's tied with Norman Bates and Anton Chigurh.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...rs/Photo57.jpg

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

You would rank Le Chiffre over The Joker? All he did was whip Bond's balls back and forth.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Well done. Now throw them into a cage and throw away the key. And never ever untie them again!





:awesome:

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

So hard to pick best villain. Is it someone you hate on screen? Most fearsome? John Doe in Se7en was great, but had little screen time (although his presence was felt throughout). I'd have to say Norman Bates was probably the most well done villain on screen with hannibal being a close second. Vader has to be the most well known fantasy villains. Really hard to beat those three. I actually felt that heath's joker was lifted a bit from characters I'd seen before....so...no I wouldnt' rate him as the best villain of all time, but probably one of the best done Batman villains i've seen...Catwoman was done exceedingly well though too.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Awesome tattoo :up:

:funny:

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

He's certainly up there. I don't know whether I'd say yes, but I'll say that I'd find it very hard to find as much enjoyment in another villian. If I keep it to genre, as in comic book films, then I'd go as far as to say that it's THE best performance of a comic character brought to screen, villain or not. I don't think, within the genre, that I've ever seen a performance with as much heart and soul that has effected me and stayed with me as Heath's Joker has. He put sweat and tears into that part, and it shows with every line of dialogue and every gesture.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

I think I'd rate him second behind Hannibal Lecter.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Thank you. It looks even better now. That pic was taken when it was still bloody and scabby.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

I'd definitely rate him somewhere in the top 5.

I watched a little of TDK yesterday again for the first time in about 6 months, and I could just watch Ledger's scenes over and over. He has so many layers going on when he plays Joker; the constantly moving eyes; the fidgeting, the maniacal laugh, the way he's licking his gums and playing with his mouth; the random actions; it's not even acting, he literally became the Joker. He totally comes across 110% convincingly as someone who is completely unhinged ...... chaos on legs.

The way he can change from psychotic to downright scary in an instant is great too - particularly notable when the TV station is airing the 'home video' made by Joker when he captures the Batman wannabe. He's laughing and doing the creepy thing, and suddenly his voice drops to this creature-like tone and he roars at his victim "LOOK AT ME!". I got a new surround system and my gf watched the film for the first time through it shortly after I got it, she jumped at that part lol.

Truly a fantastic performance.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

If TDK and Heath's performance holds up well, we may have different opinions in 20 years or so. TDK's Joker could become a classic cinematic villian.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

The Joker himself - one of the best. Any specific live-action rendition of him - I don't think so, personally. I thought that Heath's Joker was magical, that is, capable of impossible/mysterious feats and getaways with nary an explanation, whereas Bale's Batman had his every gadget and maneouver explained - it really took the edge off both characters for me. They really were opposite extremes of one another: one ridiculously capable and frustratingly unexplained [in terms of his 'abilities', not origins] and the other explained to the point of boredom [I don't really want to know how exaclty Batman knocks out electricty and plans an alibi to abduct someone - I'd rather see Batman as the villian does, as a seemingly mysterious force]. Those are the reasons I have, personally. I wasn't so enamoured by the character or his exploits.

I think A Clockwork Orange's Alex is a great 'villian', because you're made to emphasise with him - and it works!

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

He's definitely the best in my opinion :woot:

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

^^^ I really like your username lol.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Kinda silly to ask this on a Batman forum. Of course the answer is going to be a resounding YES.

Still, I have to say, YES. He was a despicable monster that you loathe, but can't help but be intruiged by at the same time. An expertly crafted villain who truly gives the viewer a feeling of dread and anxiety whenever he is onscreen.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

I will have to strongly disagree. If I was to pick one greatest villain of all time, I would pick Darth Vader

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

If Mark Hamill did live action, we'd be eating our words about Ledger. But he's not, unless MOTP counts because it was in theaters

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

The Joker in Mask of the Phantasm is just as valid as Heath Ledger's in this topic.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

I disagree. Heath Ledger's Joker is far more terrifying than Mark Hamill's Joker was.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

I think TDK will stand the test of time. It's not just a superhero movie, it felt more like a crime thriller to me. It was incredible when I first saw it at midnight IMAX, and is still incredible today. (I know only 3 years later, but still)

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Okay so I'll stick with Hamill. There's a definite creepiness to the character, he learned the style so well. Much more of a twisted sense of humor than Ledger's did IMO. Yeah, Heath can kill a guy with a pencil and send a dead fake batman flying into the side of a building, but in terms of the actual Joker from the comics, Hamill reaches it just a bit further than him

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

We'd agree if it weren't for "Return of the Joker". There were some legitimately disturbing Joker moments in that film, especially centering around the flash-back of when he captured Robin.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Oh man, i forgot about the Batman Beyond movie! That was definitely a insane Joker, watching him attack Bruce

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Well, Hamill has never been a good actor to begin with. Doesn't mean he didn't do a good voice for animated Joker, but I seriously doubt he can do anything that can actually compete with Ledger. Or Nicholson for that matter. Anyone remember his Trickster character from The Flash TV series?

Absolutely.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

I never got why people are always wanting voice over actors to do the live action versions. Just let it be what it is and enjoy it.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

Whatever does happen on that matter, I feel Mark's Joker was more playfully psychotic than Heaths. When I watched TDK, it didnt seem like a Joker having fun or just forming it in a humorus way. I would've loved a laugh when he sat up from the table to attack Gambol. He keeps saying "Why so serious?" when he's actually a serious character...

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

This is true. Voice acting and live action acting are two entirely different things.



He laughed plenty. He said Why so serious because he was recounting a story of what his father said to him. He wasn't actually asking Gambol why he was being serious lol.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

That's not what I'm saying. He wasn't a fun Joker when he needed to be. At Prewitt, as soon as Batman popped up, I could imagine Joker building a growing laugh as he turns slowly, his eyes wild. All he did was sick the hounds on him and attack him with a steel pole. And he wasnt enjoying it. When the fireworks were supposed to go off, Joker could've sent a HUGE laugh and then slowly come to realization. He just watched it.

Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 

He was a fun Joker when he needed to be. Whether he was sipping the guests champagne, stealing the hor dourves, dressing up as a nurse, going into a laughing fit when his own henchman gets electrocuted etc.

"All the old familiar places" he quips as he attacks Batman with the steel bar at the Prewitt building. He was very clearly enjoying it. We even catch him smiling when comes at Batman:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6526/tdk2760.jpg


The Joker wouldn't have laughed UNTIL he saw the fireworks go off. He laughed when Batman threw him off the building because he thought he'd succeeded in corrupting Batman. Joker laughs when there's something to laugh at.