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-   -   TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=357615)

El Payaso 07-07-2011 02:39 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg Bop (Post 20804763)
I never got why people are always wanting voice over actors to do the live action versions. Just let it be what it is and enjoy it.
They probably think that a good voice means good acting and that they are magically going to act exactly like the animation.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rise (Post 20804885)
Whatever does happen on that matter, I feel Mark's Joker was more playfully psychotic than Heaths. When I watched TDK, it didnt seem like a Joker having fun or just forming it in a humorus way. I would've loved a laugh when he sat up from the table to attack Gambol. He keeps saying "Why so serious?" when he's actually a serious character...
Joker was having great fun. But things is, Ledger's and Nolan Joker is an approach to the character. I personally think that Hammil's and Nicholson's are closer to the classic old Joker, but's saying nothing bad about Ledger's. He was as Joker as the rest.

Knight Rise 07-07-2011 02:40 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
The real Joker has a plan whether it seems like it or not. He can fool people into believing they got him, but he's always one step ahead. If the final step in his plan is ruined, he's not going to expect it to not happen. He would've laughed his ass off until he realized what happen. That's when joker gets angry. Heaths joker didn't bring enough fun to the character, whether you'd like to believe it or not. So does Mark and Jack and Cesar etc. He had the killer part down, but not enough Joker

The Joker 07-07-2011 02:49 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rise (Post 20805471)
The real Joker has a plan whether it seems like it or not. He can fool people into believing they got him, but he's always one step ahead.
You mean like corrupting Harvey Dent? "You didn't think I'd risk losing the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist fight with you? Noooo you need an ace in the hole. Mine's Harvey"

You're right, the REAL Joker does be one step ahead :cwink:

Quote:
If the final step in his plan is ruined, he's not going to expect it to not happen. He would've laughed his ass off until he realized what happen. That's when joker gets angry.
Really? So why was Joker laughing at the end of Mask of the Phantasm when he saw everything blowing up and thought he was going to die? He didn't want to die. He was trying to escape. He even said to Batman "Let me go or we'll both die".

So that kind of shoots down your angry when everything fails theory :cwink:

Quote:
Heaths joker didn't bring enough fun to the character, whether you'd like to believe it or not.
That's your opinion, whether you'd like to believe that or not.

Btw, good to see you promoting the new Joker blogs on YouTube in your sig. Inspired by Heath's Joker isn't it. Good to see you're an obvious fan :cwink:

Knight Rise 07-07-2011 03:00 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
It's a reboot hurr hurr hurr. Maybe if you actually looked at it, I clearly said it's a mix of all jokers

The Joker 07-07-2011 03:02 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rise (Post 20805637)
It's a reboot hurr hurr hurr. Maybe if you actually looked at it, I clearly said it's a mix of all jokers
Uh huh, is that why the design of the channel is all TDK-esque Joker?

Knight Rise 07-07-2011 03:04 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker (Post 20805659)
Uh huh, is that why the design of the channel is all TDK-esque Joker?
The newspapers represent Jack. The changings of the paper represent Heath. The performance represents Mark

The Joker 07-07-2011 03:08 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rise (Post 20805673)
The newspapers represent Jack.
How? There's a photo of Eckhart's Harvey Dent with a TDK Jokerized face in the papers.

Quote:
The changings of the paper represent Heath.
That's blatantly obvious since it's all TDK related.

Quote:
The performance represents Mark
How do you know that? Have you seen the performance yet?

Knight Rise 07-07-2011 03:12 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
IM THE GUY WHO FREAKIN REBOOTED IT!

In regards to Jack, you are looking way too much into it because Jack had a, to some, iconic moment with a newspaper. "Wait till they get a load of me..."

Unmasked 07-07-2011 03:12 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker (Post 20805411)
He was a fun Joker when he needed to be. Whether he was sipping the guests champagne, stealing the hor dourves, dressing up as a nurse, going into a laughing fit when his own henchman gets electrocuted etc.

"All the old familiar places" he quips as he attacks Batman with the steel bar at the Prewitt building. He was very clearly enjoying it. We even catch him smiling when comes at Batman:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6526/tdk2760.jpg


The Joker wouldn't have laughed UNTIL he saw the fireworks go off. He laughed when Batman threw him off the building because he thought he'd succeeded in corrupting Batman. Joker laughs when there's something to laugh at.
I'm sure you already know this, but the scene where he is beating Batman with the steel bar is a reference to the beating he gave to Jason Todd in " A death in the family"

Same camera angle too

The Joker 07-07-2011 03:15 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rise (Post 20805737)
IM THE GUY WHO FREAKIN REBOOTED IT!
LOLOLOL!!!! Why didn't you just say so? Now I really am looking forward to seeing this :cwink:

Quote:
In regards to Jack, you are looking way too much into it because Jack had a, to some, iconic moment with a newspaper.
How on earth is that represented in your channel design? Where would anyone look at that TDK Jokerized newspaper with Eckhart's Dent on it, with a paraphrased Ledger quote scribbled on it and all, and think of Nicholson's Joker?

Explain that to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unmasked (Post 20805743)
I'm sure you already know this, but the scene where he is beating Batman with the steel bar is a reference to the beating he gave to Jason Todd in " A death in the family"

Same camera angle too
Good catch :up:

There's a ton of Joker comic references in this. Check out my blog: http://jokerfans.blogspot.com/2011/0...-to-movie.html

I'll have to add that one to it.

Unmasked 07-07-2011 03:18 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker (Post 20805765)
Good catch :up:

There's a ton of Joker comic references in this. Check out my blog: http://jokerfans.blogspot.com/2011/0...-to-movie.html

I'll have to add that one to it.
Nice blog! :hrt:

Knight Rise 07-07-2011 03:18 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Because no one goes to a YouTube channel and STARES or glances at the background, it's YouTube not myspace.

and are you insulting my acting before it's even shown?

The Joker 07-07-2011 03:21 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unmasked (Post 20805785)
Nice blog! :hrt:
Thank you :yay:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rise (Post 20805787)
Because no one goes to a YouTube channel and STARES or glances at the background, it's YouTube not myspace.
Oh yes they do if it's a channel dedicated to a specific theme. In this case The Joker. Otherwise what's the point in having one if nobody notices it?

Quote:
and are you insulting my acting before it's even shown?
Not at all. I'm anticipating it because you've spent the last two pages crowing about who the real Joker is and anyone who thinks different to you is wrong.

So I can't wait to see just how good you do it and the kind of responses you get.

Knight Rise 07-07-2011 03:25 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
I WASN'T SAYING I KNEW WHO THE REAL JOKER WAS

I never said any of them were, I'm just pointing out Heath is right there with them. All of them have flaws.

And I'm not trying to perfect Joker through the blogs. No one can do that.

But Heath is a great actor, just not perfect

The Joker 07-07-2011 03:29 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Look Knight Rise, here is what you said:

Quote:
Heaths joker didn't bring enough fun to the character, whether you'd like to believe it or not.
It's right there several posts above. Dictating what's what and saying anyone who doesn't think that way they just don't want to believe it.

Your OPINION is subjective. Not fact. So kindly refrain from telling me or anyone else what we want to believe.

Unmasked 07-07-2011 03:36 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
IMHO, Heath's joker had just the right level of goofiness

The funny side of the Joker had to be in the movie, because he is the Joker after all, but since Nolan wanted to go back to the character's roots - psycho mass murderer - they couldn't overdo the hahaha part

Ultimately, I thought it was the perfect blend of dark sense of humor and goofiness

Knight Rise 07-07-2011 03:48 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker (Post 20805881)
Look Knight Rise, here is what you said:



It's right there several posts above. Dictating what's what and saying anyone who doesn't think that way they just don't want to believe it.

Your OPINION is subjective. Not fact. So kindly refrain from telling me or anyone else what we want to believe.
I wasn't referring to an actual actor, I'm trying to show that Heath is a good Joker, but he's not perfect. And if you say he is, that's not only false, but it's an insult to the future generations of people who play the Joker

The Joker 07-07-2011 05:47 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Nobody called him perfect. Even if they did it's not wrong, everyone's idea of a perfect Joker is subjective. God knows the character has gone through a lot of evolution in the comics. He's never retained one style. Look at Joker today and Joker in the 70's. He's a lot darker today than he is now. Joker of the 40's-60's was total camp ala Cesar Romero.

How is it an insult to future generations? A lot of people think Sean Connery was the perfect James Bond. That's no insult to any of the actors who followed him because they have their fans, too.

Knight Rise 07-07-2011 06:06 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Some people think the same about Bond, I don't but some people do. But I won't go into that

In the end, I have nothing against Heath as the Joker. But I also don't have anything against Mark, Jack, Kevin, Cesar, or Diedrich. They just stay on the same level for me so I don't have a "best Joker". I love Mark only because he sticks to the classic Joker and does it really well, but Im not saying he's the best. It's impossible to compare all of their interpretations really. I may not like how far off they went in terms of realism with a character like the Joker, but Heath still made something out of it

thedevilhunter 07-07-2011 08:30 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
I think Hannibal Lecter will remain my favourite. When he is intelligent, it feels less forced than Ledger. I think Lecter is more charming and sympathetic.

HisMagicTrick 07-07-2011 11:34 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker (Post 20766767)
^^^ I really like your username lol.
Thanks :awesome:

BatFan88 07-08-2011 05:24 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Ledger's performance was great.if i compare it with Nicholson's performance i dont really see that much diffrence...Ledger's performance is just a little bit better.

Ledger's performance is too much appreciated.

And surely not the best villian performance ever.... That's total nonsense.

Unmasked 07-08-2011 09:10 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatFan88 (Post 20810617)
Ledger's performance was great.if i compare it with Nicholson's performance i dont really see that much diffrence...Ledger's performance is just a little bit better.

Ledger's performance is too much appreciated.

And surely not the best villian performance ever.... That's total nonsense.
I think each one of them is good in its own right

Jack's Joker was a great fit for the Burtonverse, same as Heath's for Nolanverse

And since I prefer Nolan's iteration, then I'm totally biased

Heath > Jack :yay:

BatFan88 07-08-2011 10:06 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Agreed.

The jokers where great in both films/worlds.

Mister Meddle 07-08-2011 12:10 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
He's up there as one of the best comic book villains. It's easy to say he's the best villain in the history of film if you're a hardcore TDK fan but lettuce be cereal here, the list is endless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg Bop (Post 20804763)
I never got why people are always wanting voice over actors to do the live action versions. Just let it be what it is and enjoy it.
I'm not a fan of having Mark Hamill play a live action Joker however I always enjoyed him on TAS and I understand why people would prefer him. It's easy to do the body movements but getting the right expressions and voice usually makes the character. Darth Vader is a perfect example of this. Imagine how the character would've turned out if he had a standard Australian accent. James Earl Jones receives more credit than David Prowse for a reason. Imagine if Vader turned out like this:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Blue Sugar 07-08-2011 02:34 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
He is up there for me no doubt.

My top ten film villains without order and from the top of my mind:

The Joker (Heath Ledger) from The Dark Knight
The Terminator (Arnold Schwarchenegger) from The Terminator
T1000 (Robert Patrick) from Terminator 2: Judgement Day
Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid) from The Star Wars Saga
Darth Vader (Prowse/Christiansen/Earl Jones) from The Star Wars Saga
Jack Torrance (Jack Nicholson) from The Shining
Death (Bengt Ekerot) from The Seventh Seal
Norman Stansfield (Gary Oldman) from Léon
John Doe (Kevin Spacey) from Seven
Le Chiffre (Mads Mikkelsen) from Casino Royale

And the line between a classic main villain and just another bad guy/antagonist/henchman is thin. And also I didn't count more animal like characters like Alien and Jaws.

LegendaryCaleb 07-08-2011 08:19 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
I certainly think he is...but that's just my opinion!

Knight Rise 07-08-2011 08:28 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
I think MOTP Joker is a little higher, but he's not the best either IMO

moviedoors 07-11-2011 06:11 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rise (Post 20804885)
Whatever does happen on that matter, I feel Mark's Joker was more playfully psychotic than Heaths. When I watched TDK, it didnt seem like a Joker having fun or just forming it in a humorus way. I would've loved a laugh when he sat up from the table to attack Gambol. He keeps saying "Why so serious?" when he's actually a serious character...
I couldn't possibly disagree more. I'm so glad they didn't make him laugh every two seconds. His laugh was like his screen time: exactly enough.

DC Batman 07-15-2011 07:58 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
A little off topic, but I recently made a music video of TDK

Here is the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBwTmt0mlOE

Frontier 07-16-2011 02:24 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
He is certainly up there. I wish you had a "top 3" or even "top 10" option.

I'd rate him top 3. Hannibal Lector and Darth Vader with him. Though in what order... I don't know.

He's without a doubt the best comic villain, the best villain of the past 15 years. Every 20 years or so has an iconic villain. Those 3 are it.

I think anyone who tries to play the Joker in a future Bat film ((which I hope doesn't happen for a good solid 20 years; much as I love the Joker/Batman relationship, Ledger simply knocked it so far out of the park that any attempt sooner than a decade plus would seem like it was either being done for hollow reasons)) is going to have to really out-do himself.

roach 07-16-2011 02:40 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Best film villain...no...Lector, Vader, Spacey from Seven, Kaiser Soze....IMO were better

Best comic book film villain...probably

Nevincer 07-16-2011 09:20 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
One of the best. But I have to say some of the villains being listed in this thread are overrated as hell, and got cult status due to other factors, not the raw performance like with Heath's Joker.

roach 07-16-2011 09:31 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhunt (Post 20899343)
One of the best. But I have to say some of the villains being listed in this thread are overrated as hell, and got cult status due to other factors, not the raw performance like with Heath's Joker.
um Anthony Hopkins' Lector won the best actor Oscar for Silence of the Lambs...he only appeared in the film for a little over 16 minutes

also lets not forget that Joker was a popular character before Heath was cast

Nevincer 07-16-2011 09:33 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roach (Post 20899391)
um Anthony Hopkins' Lector won the best actor Oscar for Silence of the Lambs...he only appeared in the film for a little over 16 minutes

also lets not forget that Joker was a popular character before Heath was cast
Um... I said some, I wasn't referring to Lector. I don't think he was overrated at all, and never did. Like Heath he won cult status through a great performance, as short as it was.

roach 07-16-2011 09:37 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
well who would you consider over rated and got cult status due to other factors

The Joker 07-16-2011 06:46 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Well I don't think the likes of Le Chirffe from Casino Royale or Gozer from Ghostbusters warrant a cult status. If any Bond villains have cult status it's the likes of Blofeld, Goldfinger, Oddjob and Jaws.

roach 07-16-2011 06:51 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker (Post 20902985)
Well I don't think the likes of Le Chirffe from Casino Royale or Gozer from Ghostbusters warrant a cult status. If any Bond villains have cult status it's the likes of Blofeld, Goldfinger, Oddjob and Jaws.
I agree with this...I didnt see anything iconic about Le Chirffe

The Caped Knight 07-16-2011 07:04 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
He's defiantly up their with Darth Vader.

Doomed_hero 07-16-2011 07:23 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
no not best. While I found dark knight to be a really good movie, I feel there are better like Darth vader and Palatine from star wars. Plalpatine simply for being true evil, taking over the empire and killing millions, even billions, before he was taken down( no one can top that). And Vader for the character himself, there is alot more layers to him then health's joker.

Also i would put Bill the Buthcher from "gangs of New york' in front of him as well as hannibal. I think I would tie him with the 89 joker cause i think him and jack both had parts of the character of joker right.

The Joker 08-02-2011 10:46 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roach (Post 20903037)
I agree with this...I didnt see anything iconic about Le Chirffe
As far as Bond villains go, he was decent enough, but not as great as the classic Bond villains I mentioned. He certainly is not even close to iconic villain status.

redfirebird2008 08-03-2011 12:22 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatFan88 (Post 20810617)
if i compare it with Nicholson's performance i dont really see that much diffrence.

I disagree, there is a legitimate difference between them. One of them completely disappeared into the role while the other didn't.

webhead9707 08-03-2011 09:05 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Does anyone else think Hugo Weaving's Red Skull and Tom Hiddleston's Loki may become iconic film villains?

p4poetic 08-03-2011 01:00 PM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
I have to let movies age a bit before I can make 'best of all time' decisions personally.

CelticPredator 08-04-2011 06:16 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
I could name a good 10 villains better then him. So no.

Lord 08-04-2011 06:19 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by webhead9707 (Post 21084517)
Does anyone else think Hugo Weaving's Red Skull and Tom Hiddleston's Loki may become iconic film villains?
Loki was a whining brat whilenred skull wasn't well enough used

CelticPredator 08-04-2011 06:32 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Loki was amazing. Well done fleshed out character. More interesting then The Joker.

Lord 08-04-2011 06:41 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticPredator (Post 21094171)
Loki was amazing. Well done fleshed out character. More interesting then The Joker.
I liked Loki but he was kind of a girl sometimes

Godzilla2014 08-04-2011 07:44 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
I'd say that Heath Ledger's Joker is the best comic book film villain and, at the very least, one of the best in film overall.

El Payaso 08-04-2011 10:49 AM
Re: TDK's Joker: The best film villain of all time?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticPredator (Post 21094171)
Loki was amazing. Well done fleshed out character. More interesting then The Joker.
He was the best in that movie, but Joker was big amongst bigs.


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