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-   -   So what DIDN'T we like? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=360625)

gridlockd 07-25-2011 11:21 PM

So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Overall, I liked it and recommend it. But yeah, I got a few nitpicks.

Too derivitive?
I know it's the nature of the comic book origin movie, but for the first time I felt like maybe I'd see enough superhero movies. I'd seen a lot of these beats before.

-Weak guy gets strong (Spider-Man, Hulk)
-Gains power in experiment gone wrong (Spider-Man, Hulk)
- Kindly mentor dies (Iron Man, Spider-Man)
-Action set peice avenging mentors' death (Spider-Man, Iron Man)
-Intial crappy costume (Spider-Man, Iron Man)
-Originally using powers for wrong reason (Spider-Man)
-Hero wakes up in a different world and starts kicking ass (Thor)
-Hero doesn't get girl at the end (Hulk, Spider-Man, Thor)


I also thought it was a bit contrived how he became the Army recruitment mascot. Here the goverment just spent untold millions on this super soilder serum, it actually works, people are willing to kill and die for it and then they just dismiss the guy? Why wouldn't they at least send him into battle? You paid for him, you might as well use him. And it would make a lot more sense for the army to hire an actor for these recruitment drives rather than cast this secret government test project, no?

And at times, I thought the backgrounds were a little too fakey. I never thought I was looking at the 1940's but a greenscreen of the 1940's. I think more practical sets, with a real weight and feel to them would have given the Times Square ending even more impact. I'm sure they used plently of real sets but there were times I couldn't help but picture the actors in front of a green screen on a sound stage.

Overall though, great job. Make Mine Marvel. What say you?

gmanca 07-25-2011 11:25 PM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
I felt that the recruitment portion worked very well; they made him do the USO show because they still needed him alive to develop a duplicate serum. And if they couldn't have him in battle, the next best thing was to have him be a mascot.

Didn't like how a lot of the action was pretty brief, the relatively short amount of time with Bucky, and the way the ending was tempoed, not just the wrong score over the final line but the lack of old Peggy.

RedSkull 07-25-2011 11:26 PM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
the montage felt strange to me. The howling commandos scene I mean

gmanca 07-25-2011 11:35 PM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Yeah, that's what I was feeling was too brief along with the motorcycle chase. On the other hand, the factory rescue and the entire ending portion of action was great.

Liam, that would have been perfect; one 10 minute sequence before they did a montage which would have allowed for an additional emotional moment between that and the train raid.

I think that's really the problem with all of these Marvel movies, they have great elements but they're missing portions in the hope to make short films. You could add 15 minutes to all of their films and they wouldn't feel longer and yet they'd be better films.

Liam_H 07-25-2011 11:35 PM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
A problem I had was the howling commandos montage. I think it would've worked far better if we saw them do one whole complete mission...Great Escape style...with everyone showing off their individual skills. One mission with a clear objective and success to prove themselves. After we see how well all of them work together with Cap then we go into a montage. That way when see the montage of them taking out all these bases we know they have the skills.

gridlockd 07-25-2011 11:36 PM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gmanca (Post 21007517)
I felt that the recruitment portion worked very well; they made him do the USO show because they still needed him alive to develop a duplicate serum. And if they couldn't have him in battle, the next best thing was to have him be a mascot.

Didn't like how a lot of the action was pretty brief, the relatively short amount of time with Bucky, and the way the ending was tempoed, not just the wrong score over the final line but the lack of old Peggy.

Duplicate serum, eh? I like it. Thanks.

gridlockd 07-25-2011 11:39 PM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
And not to belabor my point but the Howling Commandos kinda reminded me of the Warrior's Three in Thor. His rowdy, hard-drinking brothers-in-arms. Except in this case, I think they wanted to show how Cap gets along with his friends from other countries to help win over the tricky international markets.

Rowsdower! 07-25-2011 11:45 PM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Yeah, I think the Howling Commandoes montage felt a little rushed. It felt like a scene was cut out or something.

Liam_H 07-25-2011 11:52 PM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowsdower! (Post 21007691)
Yeah, I think the Howling Commandoes montage felt a little rushed. It felt like a scene was cut out or something.

There's a chance they might've filmed like five different short mission sequences and spliced them all together. Either that or they just filmed a bunch of random scenes and put them together.

I would've like their first mission to have a clear objective by stealing information, blowing up a base, or capturing someone important...or steal a dodgeball...all would have been good.

Ultimatehero 07-25-2011 11:52 PM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
1) Too short of time with Bucky.
2) The ending seemed too abrupt and Cap didn't ask about the war?

I hope the Avengers picks up immediately after Captain America so the abruptness fits in and makes sense. Just how it didn't even pause at the end was odd.

gmanca 07-25-2011 11:57 PM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
I mentioned this before but had they done something where Jackson tells Rogers the war's over etc. that they fade to old Peggy on a porch looking at the photo of pre-serum Rogers with Evans saying in a voiceover: "I had a date," while ending with some scored strings.

Hurm... 07-26-2011 12:21 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
A longer montage. I wanted to see more of that.

Bucky could have been set up to die during the climax of the film. I think it would have worked a bit better, but what they did was still decent. Not as bad as some have said.

The Lizard 07-26-2011 12:22 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Loved the movie overall -- BUT...

1. Bucky's apparent death lacked the proper impact and emotion.

2. Cap with Howling Commandos montage needed to be longer and with more variety of battles.

3. Yes, I'm going there again -- We needed to see Cap bashing at least a couple realistic, historical-looking Nazi soldiers. It's part of the character's heritage and it could have easily been part of a quick montage.

Hurm... 07-26-2011 12:24 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam_H (Post 21007741)
I would've like their first mission to have a clear objective by stealing information, blowing up a base, or capturing someone important...or steal a dodgeball...all would have been good.

I agree. If they actually did all of that, but spliced the scenes together, I would have liked it more as well.

Liam_H 07-26-2011 12:25 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurm... (Post 21008001)
A longer montage. I wanted to see more of that.

Bucky could have been set up to die during the climax of the film. I think it would have worked a bit better, but what they did was still decent. Not as bad as some have said.

Having Bucky die before the climax set up the conversation of Cap and Peggy where he's trying to drink himself into a stupor. Because without another scene between them, they would've just had them kiss right after she was pissed off at him. Scene was needed to show Peggy comforting Steve and set up their relationship further.

Hurm... 07-26-2011 12:30 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
I see your point, Liam.

That makes the need for the montage to be longer even more necessary IMO, so we could see Bucky and Cap's friendship during the fight scenes. We would have been much more attached to his character after seeing him in action.

Liam_H 07-26-2011 12:33 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurm... (Post 21008051)
I see your point, Liam.

That makes the need for the montage to be longer even more necessary IMO, so we could see Bucky and Cap's friendship during the fight scenes. We would have been much more attached to his character after seeing him in action.

Totally agree with you, we needed more Bucky and Steve interaction so the death could hit home better. That's why I brought up the montage being handled in a better, instead of just quick cuts.

Robin91939 07-26-2011 12:34 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
I am completely and utterly surprised that the scene in Times Square with Fury didn't go like this:


FURY
You can stop running soldier...We're on the same team.

Rogers staggers to a stop and looks around at the 21st century world for the first time, amazing...confused.

ROGERS
Where am I?

FURY
More apt is "when" are you? You've been asleep a long time, Cap.

Rogers looks around, his eyes begin to well up as the reality of the situation sets in.

ROGERS
Did we-- Did we win?

Fury smiles.

FURY
Yeah, kid. You did good. You did real good.

Rogers appears overwhelmingly relieved.

ROGERS
How long has it been?

FURY
About seventy years.

Rogers turns away, breaking eye contact with Fury.

FURY (Cont'd)
Something wrong?

ROGERS
I just-- I had a date...

Fade to black.
End.
Credits.


I understand that they set up the romance with Peggy and the "dance partner" "we had a date" pay off the whole film....but his FIRST and FOREMOST concern upon waking up should have been the war. That's WHO Steve Rogers is. They could have done it and STILL had the pay off of the relationship with Peggy.



-R

Rowsdower! 07-26-2011 12:36 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
One thing that didn't bother me but I never particularly liked was the Hydra solders' costumes. They looked like that nerdy, screaming kid standing in line for Santa Claus in A Christmas Story.

Did their masks look like that in the comics? I don't remember.

Superhero 101 07-26-2011 12:39 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
The only thing i really didn't like was the short montage and Red Skull. I felt we could have gotten a few more scenes with him to show how evil he really is. There should have been more action too. And i thought the fight scene at the end should have been better. Like most of the Marvel films(except TIH) the grande finale fights have always been a bit of a disappointment.

Thundercrack85 07-26-2011 12:50 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
I felt they overemphasized Hydra. It turned more into Captain America vs Hydra, than Captain America fighting Nazi Germany in World War II. World War II was a footnote in the movie.

Liam_H 07-26-2011 12:54 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
^They probably wanted to avoid going into him actually fighting Nazi's even though that's part of the mythos. Probably the same reason the Hydra weapons literally vaporize you into nothing, wanted to avoid being too violent and keep it more fun adventurous.

Thundercrack85 07-26-2011 01:00 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam_H (Post 21008251)
^They probably wanted to avoid going into him actually fighting Nazi's even though that's part of the mythos. Probably the same reason the Hydra weapons literally vaporize you into nothing, wanted to avoid being too violent and keep it more fun adventurous.

What's wrong with fighting Nazis? Are they scared they'll offend someone?

As for killing, Iron Man got away with it. Though I'll admit, that actually surprised me when I first saw it.

Liam_H 07-26-2011 01:03 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 (Post 21008275)
What's wrong with fighting Nazis? Are they scared they'll offend someone?

As for killing, Iron Man got away with it. Though I'll admit, that actually surprised me when I first saw it.

No idea why, it could have easily been done without offending anyone like in many other movies. I mean all the Hydra uniforms and weapons kind of made it look like Cobra from GI JOE.

spiderguy252000 07-26-2011 01:06 AM

Re: So what DIDN'T we like?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowsdower! (Post 21008105)
One thing that didn't bother me but I never particularly liked was the Hydra solders' costumes. They looked like that nerdy, screaming kid standing in line for Santa Claus in A Christmas Story.

Did their masks look like that in the comics? I don't remember.

have to agree with you there. I just thought they looked out of place. I think the tech. would of looked even more advanced, if it were being held by normal German soldiers. Visually it would of really emphasized that they were using technology way ahead of their time while still dressed period.


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