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-   -   Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=361597)

truth 08-04-2011 03:34 PM

Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Guys, this ain't the 90's or even the 80's. It's the millenium where everything needs to be dark and serious....EVEN Spiderman. It makes me wonder, if guys or even kids can appreciate Captain America which is in stark contrast to the films that get released these days.

The whole cheesy patriotic and heroic theme is very far from the new standard that Nolan is setting with his Batman films that have been amazingly successful.

So, question is, do you think there is room in today's world for a film like Cap?

CConn 08-04-2011 03:46 PM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
....obviously there is. It's made money.

Liam_H 08-04-2011 04:33 PM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Of course Cap can still work. Nolan has changed nothing with his films, they work cause its Batman.

CConn 08-04-2011 05:05 PM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam_H (Post 21100637)
Of course Cap can still work. Nolan has changed nothing with his films, they work cause its Batman.

Well, the OP does have a point; film producers have been confusing the success of Nolan's movies with some "need" for dark and gritty.

Spider-Fan 08-04-2011 05:36 PM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Obviously there is a place for Cap. It made money.

truth 08-04-2011 06:07 PM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
yeah, it made money but im talking BIG money

truth 08-04-2011 06:07 PM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
its not doing too great overseas

Spider-Fan 08-04-2011 06:08 PM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
It's not been out long overseas. It's a 1-2 week old movie, dude. Yes, it won't be Iron Man big, but that doesn't mean it won't make money or it is doing poorly.

Lord 08-04-2011 06:13 PM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
You think todays society is too cinical for captain america?
First you make a why captain america is better than The Dark Knight and now you make this as if we were picking on you for saying that they were different movies?
But the movie will make big money, enough to warrant a sequel

Silvermoth 08-05-2011 08:38 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
I don't think you could call people cynics just because they want to see something less fluffy. I mean that's ok for a pixar film or whatever but when Harry Potter has less bounce than a comic book movie it's probably time to give it some extra reality and bite.

Shadowlord X 08-05-2011 09:24 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
I think many people are pre-judging the movie.

Based upon the name CAPTAIN AMERICA they think this might be a hyper pro-american movie and/or they think that it might be very cheesy.

A female colleague at work was for some reason put-off by it and really fought against seeing it. After seeing it she completely changed her tune and really liked the movie.


Among people who are comicbook aware but not really comicbook lovers there is a perception that CAP is lame and the only thing he has is a shield which is also lame.

These are things that might be holding back its success a bit. The good thing is that the movie is very good with tremendous rewatchability and cross-demographic appeal. Thus what will happen is that alot of people that shunned it in cinema will end up watching it on dvd, netflix, etc., etc., and come to love the movie.

Thus it's audience and fanbase will explode.

CConn 08-05-2011 09:33 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by truth (Post 21102061)
its not doing too great overseas

Well, duh. The nations of the world aren't particularly enamored with the US.

You could've made Cap look like Saving Private Ryan 2 and it still wouldn't have done that well overseas purely because it's about an American propaganda figure.

CConn 08-05-2011 09:39 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by truth (Post 21102055)
yeah, it made money but im talking BIG money

Cap wasn't ever going to make "BIG" money purely due to Cap's overall notoriety.

Part of the reason why Batman always makes a ****storm of money is because he's probably the most popular superhero in the world, so as long as his movies aren't awful, they'll make money. Spider-Man has that same draw.

Guys like Cap and Thor just don't have that size of a following and thusly are at a bit of a disadvantage before their movies are even released.

But there's not really anything wrong with that. Unless you're the CEO of Marvel Studios, the difference between making money and making "BIG" money isn't that important.

Spider-Fan 08-05-2011 09:51 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by truth (Post 21102061)
its not doing too great overseas

It's made 71mil domestic in about 1 week of foreign release in only half the territories it will debut in :huh:

It's not doing poorly overseas.

Mysteryman 08-05-2011 10:36 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Yeah, I think people are so used to seeing triple digit figures for Box Office numbers that they translate that as the only time a film is doing well.

hatebox 08-05-2011 10:51 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Cap will do fine overseas, and the marketing was clever enough to realise that patriotism is a turn off so it didn't push it. It was in the background, not in the foreground, which was the right way to play it. The film won't make huge money, but that's lack of familiarity and genre fatigue.

As far as the bigger question goes, the US is a nation in terminal decline. In a couple of decades China will overtake it as the top superpower both economically and militarily. As a major empire, the US has had the fastest rise and fall in history. People simply won't buy a movie about how great America is these days if that's all its selling. It just isn't a tenable theme. It'd be like Britain making a movie about how powerful it is just after the Yalta Conference.

CConn 08-05-2011 02:09 PM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
That's...a pretty grandiose prediction.

Not to mention, it really isn't pertinent to the question. Even if America had already declined, Cap is a period piece about the heights of the US ideal. Not about it's empirical supremacy.

Marvel 08-05-2011 07:52 PM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Well, like others I really don't understand the question here since Cap is doing quite well at the box office in spite of a lackluster marketing campaign.


Cowboys and Aliens went dark and edgy and has been ignored for the most part. Super 8 was dark/edgy and had the names Spielberg and Abrams over the title and Cap has already made more domestically. Limitless was dark/edgy had big stars and didn't even hit $80 million. I know those budgets are lower but audiences don't care about that stuff. There is no pattern besides the weak economy makes it tough on non-sequels no matter what tone they take.


A good film is a good film and Cap certainly is that and delivers. It's not light but it is a throw-back adventure film and 9 out of 10 people that have seen it has liked it.

weezerspider 08-05-2011 09:02 PM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Batman is SUPPOSED to be dark and edgy...... I think most of the GA realize the difference between a dark character(Batman) and a lighter character(Cap). Plus Just because something isn't 'dark' doesn't mean it isn't serious. There were serious threats in Captain America. Heck, Red Skull and Hydra were a greater threat to mankind then The Joker in TDK. Some people think if a film isn't dark, its not serious. Thats not true. It is also not true that TDK was so successful simply because it was dark. TDK is the best comic book film because it captures the feel and themes of that character while still making a great film that can be enjoyed by fans and non-comic fans alike. Batman's feel and theme happen to dark. Cap's aren't nearly as dark. If Marvel can make a great film that captures the themes and feel of Cap/Cap Comics while still making a film that is great for non-comic fans, then its a success. I think, for the most part, Joe Johnston and Company did that with the first film. There is room for improvement, but making it 'darker' is not one of them.

hatebox 08-06-2011 05:28 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CConn (Post 21115639)
That's...a pretty grandiose prediction.

And today the US loses its triple A rating. :cwink:

R_Hythlodeus 08-06-2011 05:51 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by truth (Post 21102061)
its not doing too great overseas

It's not out yet. so how sould it make money?
Central Europe will get the movie in two weeks.

R_Hythlodeus 08-06-2011 05:53 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hatebox (Post 21112495)

As far as the bigger question goes, the US is a nation in terminal decline. In a couple of years China will overtake it as the top superpower both economically and militarily.

fixed.

Shadowlord X 08-06-2011 07:50 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
@ MARVEL

Good assessment! The state of the US economy is really significant and a lot of people don't realise that. Only sequels are doing spectacular this year.

THOR is domestically the top grossing non-sequel this year and WW it is second.

Like I said and you have reinstated, CAP is a VERY GOOD movie. It has great rewatchability and cross demographic appeal. Even after it's theatre run, which is a success, it will find even more of a fanbase on dvd, netflix, etc.

Thundercrack85 08-06-2011 08:26 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
I don't really get the question, since the movie is doing quite well.

As for overseas box office, it is a movie made by Americans, for Americans. That does somewhat limit the appeal.

tek 08-06-2011 09:09 AM

Re: Is Today's Society too Cynical for a movie like Cap?
 
tdk made big money not because of Nolan and it's dark, gritty edge. It made big money due to the hype/death/performance of one actor. Thor made more money than batman begins


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