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Lord 09-07-2011 07:07 PM

Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
One thing bothered me a lot in the movie, in the nordick mythology Loki and Thor were enemies right?
Loki did a lot of bad things and was destined to bring the Ragnarock, but in the movie they are brothers that still have a more or less good relationship, assuming that the nordic mythology from the cinematic universe is the same as the one in the real world where did those myths come from?
How did manking see Loki turning evil coming but Odin didn't?

Vartha 09-11-2011 02:18 PM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
Well no in Norse mythology Loki was as mischievious as in the comics and movies, they just weren't Brothers or step brothers. For that Matter Thor isn't Odin's son in the myth either.

WildcatNC 09-11-2011 02:40 PM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
In the Myths Thor seems to be more of an easily duped oaf, but strong and brash. Much of the time its Loki using his intelligence to get Thor out of a bad spot he's gotten himself into. Its not till the Baldur incident and the punishment after that Loki is portrayed as truly dark really.

The Norse Myths are very "all over the place" and not really consistent in many ways. Its more like a grouping of legends and stories jumbled together. You can say that for most Myths really though.

Nave 'Torment' 09-24-2011 08:32 AM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord (Post 21405865)
One thing bothered me a lot in the movie, in the nordick mythology Loki and Thor were enemies right?
Loki did a lot of bad things and was destined to bring the Ragnarock, but in the movie they are brothers that still have a more or less good relationship, assuming that the nordic mythology from the cinematic universe is the same as the one in the real world where did those myths come from?
How did manking see Loki turning evil coming but Odin didn't?

Well, first of all even in the myths Thor and Loki has had numerous conflicts, but before the incident involving Baldur's death the Aesirs/Asgardians were very tolerant of Loki's mischief. He is noted as the god of Luck, of Lies, of Evil, of Mischief, and sometimes even of Chaos, but he has a place on Asgard like the rest of them.

If you really want to get a breakdown on Loki in the Nordic myths, look it up in the poem 'Lokasenna' (Loki's Quarrel), I think it was the last straw between him and Thor, and it's pretty characteristic of Loki from the comics too!

The fate of Loki in the myths is one of banishment - he ends up being trapped in the bowels of the Earth, with the entrails of his son binding him to a rock above which a serpent drips its poison on the fallen god. His wife, Sigyn, is with him, taking a cup to collect the venom so that it doesn't fall on his face, but everytime Sigyn leaves to empty the cup, and the poison falls on Loki, his jerks and screams cause tremors across the earth, causing earthquakes. By far, that's my favourite Nordic myth!

Ragnarok was something that all the gods knew about in the olden days, everyone spoke of it like we do about the Day of Judgment, so even if Loki existed in Asgard before the event with Baldur, Odin the all-knowing was very much aware of what would happen in the end. I suppose he kept him there because that's what he does - lets individuals play out their own fates. I think that's where this discussion would late, to the argument of fate.

If we may draw comparisons between the film and the Norse myth, we see that a lot of this is possibly happening before Loki gets banished. Maybe only Odin knows and no one else? There was that line in the movie where Fandral says "this isn't like Earth where you summon a little thunder and lightning and they worship you as a god...", and Thor himself seemed very much unaware of how things were on Midgard/Earth. So I'll hazard a guess and say that most of the Asgardians are not aware of our mythology, or the stories we have written about them. Only Odin knows. And he, allegedly, has a purpose for everything. Hope that helps?

Like WildcatNC says - the old myths come to us in parts, and not in chornological parts. The chronology is up to interpretation.

Nave 'Torment' 09-24-2011 08:34 AM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
Nevertheless, what I loved about the film was how Branagh did stay close to the myths - in Norse tradition there's this thing called 'flyting' where one of the gods takes center stage and argues it out - not combat, but verbal argument. There was a lot of that in the film.

Also, in the old myths Loki and Heimdall are meant to kill each other come Ragnarok, I was thinking about that when the two paired off on Bifrost. I'm sure Branagh is steeped in the stuff, so yeah. Loki too seemed very fearful of Heimdall's wrath from the beginning. Maybe he too knows the myths? After all, he is a mystic.

Vartha 09-24-2011 11:30 AM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
I came up a Race name for Heimdal involving a story from the myth that makes total sense for both, "Yggdriselder".
In myth he has 9 mothers, it makes sense if he's the guardian of the Bifrost that the worlds of Yggdrasil are his mothers.

Nave 'Torment' 09-24-2011 12:00 PM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
Hey that makes sense :D You came up with that?

Vartha 09-26-2011 09:22 AM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
Yeah, Tho I'm curious if some myths actually meant that. I don't recall any real history on Heimdall in myth other than he has nine moms.

Nave 'Torment' 09-28-2011 02:18 AM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
There are quite a few actually, but the explanation (or more importantly the implication) of his Nine Mothers is still contested. I really like your theory, who knows, maybe you ought to write a paper on it (or even better, write a story about it).

One thing about Heimdall that I remember from mythology is the suggestion that he is responsible for the creation of social castes among mankind. This makes even more sense if his 9 mothers are, as you say, representative of the 9 worlds. Not only does Heimdall in this way act as a sort of 'Tower of Babel' figure, being eventually responsible for most cultures of the world, but it also gives those cultures a variation. Of course, it also unifies them to one point. They say that his moms were jotuns, and some scholars even point him as among the Vanir, opting for a more exotic (oriental?) origin, he was certainly held in high regard among the Aesirs. Take it anyway you want it.

One other implication of Heimdall is that little detail about the horn he blows in the onset of Ragnarok. He isn't the only one to do that. The archetype of a world-wide alarm at the end of all existence is visibly apparent in many other mythologies, and is especially so in our own Abrahamic scriptures. Nevertheless I do think you're onto something by connecting the Nine Realms with the Nine Maiden Mothers.

Vartha 09-28-2011 07:21 PM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
I'll have to see if I can find more on Hemidal. I know there are other books other than the Snorri translations, but find ing them here is a pain.

misjuevos 11-10-2011 07:40 AM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
that actually is a cool idea vartha. i wonder if maybe branagh was thinking this too, would make his casting of idris even more perfect.

Vartha 11-11-2011 04:37 PM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
I wish I could ask Ken about that actually.

mara 03-20-2012 04:17 PM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
I don't know if anyone will see this, threads been dead a looong while, but just in case...
I read a book recently called Hammered by Kevin Hearne. I laughed like every two pages, its a bit of a crazy combo of myths/sci-fi/fantasy. This book in particular is about an angry Thunder God. :)
Also I've read a book called The Children of Odin Nordic Gods and Heros by Padraic Colum, a lyrical introduction to the myths. Good stuff! Peace out.

tomman 05-07-2012 12:47 PM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
Part of the "fun" with Norse Mythology is its looseness in terms of interpretations and background story. But within it is a lot of depth and endless possibilities for story telling and characters. Marvel has done a great job in incorporating it in their own superhero universe, and Kenneth did a great job in making it stand on its own in the movie :D My 2 cents!

balanda 10-19-2013 07:32 AM

Re: Nordick Mythology in the movie
 
It seems clear now that in the MCU, unlike in the comics, the Asgardians are not gods, but an alien race that were worshipped as gods by the Norse, and had some of their people and stories jumbled up into myths.

Thor and Loki were great friends in the myths, well, the Eddas anyway, despite Loki's tricks, until Loki really ****ed **** up and then they weren't. Loki (a Jotun) was Odin's adopted brother of course, though also could be technically be his "heir". You could definitely see more of a brotherly than uncle-like relationship between Thor (Odin's son) and Loki in the myths, anyway.

I don't really compare the MCU Asgard to the myths too much, except as a fun point of reference. Like, MCU Loki is not really a "god of mischief" but it's amusing to call him that.

(Kevin Hearne's Iron Druid Chronicles are great! I'm onto the sixth book now.)


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