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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
I just watched the second episode and definitely think this series is a winner. The animation is so good and Drake Bell is really growing on me. Keaton is still the best Peter/Spidey, but Drake is really in step with the tone of this series. The show has a musicality all it's own and they are definitely walking a fine line with all the gags. I just hope we get more quiet/Shield-less Spidey moments.
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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
Ok im not saying im gonna forget about SSM but this looks like a winner. A combination of teen titans, anime, old school spiderman, drama and comedy. I like it. I love the silly side of spidey.
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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
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I'd love to see a Wolverine show with Sin City/Frank Miller style narration. |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
The road to the next Spider-Man animated series has been quite a long one. The previous one was produced by Sony, back when they retained the sole license to Spider-Man from Marvel and before the Disney purchase of Marvel became official. It debuted on Kid's WB in the twilight hours of that network as a Saturday Morning cartoon block for kids. It was fresh after "SPIDER-MAN 3" had faded from theaters and managed to reinvent the web-slinger for audiences young and old, age 8 to 80 across two glorious seasons. However, by the time the second season arose, Disney had purchased Marvel and essentially managed to wrest the TV rights to Spidey from Sony (in exchange for Sony keeping the more lucrative film rights). I imagine Disney COULD have found a way to continue that Greg Weisman produced masterpiece had they truly desired so - there is nothing money and lawyers cannot wrest on this planet. However, and perhaps in fairness, Disney decided they wanted their own Spidey show without the hassle of retaining stuff from a Sony jam. So "TSSM" was moved to DISNEY XD where the second season debuted, it soon faded from syndication and no second season box set was ever released on DVD. That show would forever end with episode 26, with Norman Osborn having fled to Florida, Peter finally realizing he loves Gwen only for both to have to humor the manipulative Harry Osborn, and about an ocean of untapped potential left on the table. Weisman cleared out his office at Sony around early 2009 or so and landed on his feet; we would later learn Warner Brothers grabbed him up not long after to begin work on "YOUNG JUSTICE", which debuted Nov. 2010. Disney got what they wanted - their crack at a Spider-Man cartoon show which was 100% theirs to show on their new animation network alongside "AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES". They assigned the "Man Of Action" writers behind "BEN 10" and "GENERATOR REX" along with Paul Dini ("BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES", DETECTIVE COMICS, ZATANNA), Jeph Loeb as TV czar, and Brian M. Bendis as writer/producer on the series and went with an idea Sony initially drafted but ditched back in 2002; "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN". Animation and images for the series had been teased for what seemed like two years and finally today, April Fool's day 2012, viewers were treated to not one but TWO episodes of the show.
A while ago I thought the idea of debuting ANYTHING on April Fool's Day is a rookie public relations disaster. The jokes are obvious and the impression less than professional. But maybe it's fitting that this uneven and absolute mess of a cartoon show debuted on this day. It's a sign of things to come. I am going to lump a review of both episodes here, which seems appropriate as they share continuity and are two parts of one story anyway. The best thing I can say about "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN" is that it is SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS 2.0. The major caveat being this is 2012, not 1982. However, there is certainly an audience that wouldn't mind another crack at Amazing Friends 2.0, and for them this show may be a blast. It probably plays well to very small children. It does make "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD" look incredibly mature and clever. It is difficult for me to get into the things I dislike or feel don't work in this show in any coherent manner, but I will try. The best way to put it is that this show is trying to do everything it ever thought was cool in other shows, and is doing it wrong because it is trying so hard. It wants the serialization and high school fare of "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN", the insipid "chibi anime comedy antics" of "TEEN TITANS", the hero team-up appeal of "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD", while trying to lift some designs and dynamics from the long running comic book series it is named after. It throws these things all together into a blender along with that annoying "MALCOLM IN THE MIDDLE" trend where the hero pauses to narrate to the audience, and even THAT doesn't cover it. It panders to children with annoying catch phrases, goofy sound effects ripped right from LOONEY TUNES, deformed character antics mindlessly imitated from anime without understanding when and how to use them, and above all the need to EXPLAIN everything that is happening on screen to them every five minutes. It reminds me of many modern video games where I can't just play the game and be expected to be smart enough to learn through trial and error, or clever game design. Instead the game needs a pop-up or a cinematic to explain the friggin' obvious to me over and over and over and over as if I am incapable of forming any coherent thought. It is this sort of blunt manner that the show chooses to introduce things to you. Instead of using dialogue or pacing or storyboards to inform us who Trapster is, Spider-Man has to stop the episode dead in it's tracks to explain him to us with the aid of pictures and letter grades. Instead of assuming Nick Fury and SHIELD can speak for themselves, we get another lecture. Instead of assuming kids KNOW WHO THE **** MJ AND HARRY OSBORN ARE AFTER 3 GOD DAMNED MOVIES, we get more of the same. If kids today are seriously this stupid and attention lacking that this is what it takes to appeal to them, then I hope the Mayan apocalypse comes sooner rather than later. Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
To repeat: the BEST thing you can say about this show is it is trying very hard to be a 1980's cartoon. The problem is that the 1980's ended in 1989, and when a character has had as many shows as Spidey has, a new incarnation has to offer more than hot air, cheap jokes and all the focus of a manic depressive on a sugar high. Even comparing this to a 1980's show is insulting as many shows of the era (not all, but many) attempted to make up for their cheap expectations with imagination or ambition. This show's ambition is to turn Spider-Man into a fart joke at the same time it wants us to feel sorry for him every time Uncle Ben is mentioned. The fact that this is the show that will replace "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN" on Disney XD's schedule as well as in the hearts and minds of kids with short attention spans is perhaps the greatest tragedy of all. The fact that otherwise great characters like Iron Fist, Luke Cage and even White Tiger have to make their animation debuts as regular members of a show in a show like this is additional bitter repulsion. It will be for them that I keep watching, not for the web-slinger himself. Which is akin to watching "SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS" for Iceman and/or Firestar. But, in the end I am glad I watched these episodes, because at this point I think I was in need of some perspective. For quite some time I have been endlessly nitpicking the flaws and imperfections that are within "YOUNG JUSTICE". But after watching a show like THIS, I can truly appreciate that even "YJ" at it's worst has more heart, more intelligence, more imagination and more flair than this show may have at it's best. The sad thing is that there may have been something to a MARVEL TEAM-UP style show; a shame that it has to be executed this crudely and ineffectively. |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
Drake, your reviews are always a treat to read, even if I don't always feel the same way you do.
This show feels very disjointed. To honor the structure of the show, my review will be a disjointed list of reactions. -No theme song? A show this zany and stylized doesn't get a theme song? Not to mention the graphic is transfixed on a solid black background. It kills the mood a little, and it's bland. -Tom Kenny doesn't sound bad as Doc Ock. I was concerned about that casting choice. -I prefer Norman Osborn's motivations being more opaque, like in TSSM. I didn't like that he spilled his plan out in the very first episode. -Gotta love the Wizard of Oz reference. I'm a huge fan of The Wizard of Oz. -I like that Aunt May is an actual human being. Sure, I didn't like that they had to TELL me that straight out, but I like the approach to the character. I felt like Aunt May in TSSM was sort of heading in that direction, but was still kinda stuck with the doting aunt characteristics. She seemed more in the middle of classic and modern Aunt May. I like that this show goes all the way with a more modern approach to her character. Hopefully they SHOW me more of her, and tell me less about her, which leads me to- -There's too much telling, and not enough showing. Seriously, everything is explained way more than it needs to be. The "conflict" surrounding Uncle Ben is ridiculous. The part where Peter forgets the birthday cake actually made me laugh out loud for two reasons: 1) We're not given any real reason to care about Uncle Ben. Or even to care about Peter caring about Uncle Ben. 2) Drake Bell's already silly delivery is given in the midst of all this humor and camp. The pacing is so jarring. Also, I don't want Peter to tell me how great of a friend Harry is. I have to see it, or else why am I going to care if he's in the hospital? It seems like Harry's injury was supposed to be dramatic, but it was quick and clearly inconsequential, so what was the point? I guess I'm supposed to care because Peter says Harry is a great guy, but I wasn't feeling that. -Why, oh, why am I watching Spidey teaming up with this random assortment of heroes? I don't mind that this show is trying to separate itself from previous incarnations, but teaming up with these particular heroes just feels random. Of course the creators have their justification for picking these heroes, but I'm not convinced of their decision. Why is a Spidey team-up show going to be better than a show with Spidey swinging solo? These five were never a team in the comics. It doesn't feel like there are any real grounds for this decision. I hope they convince me otherwise in later episodes. -I laughed at the bit where Spidey talks to MJ (in his imagination), and she sees right through his disguise. -I really, really miss Flash from TSSM. This Flash isn't even fun to watch. Flash in TSSM is mean to Peter (in the first season, anyway), but he's still likable. I did laugh at Spidey's antics with the locker at the end of the first episode, but that's it. -Why the heck do I have to watch Spidey speeding across Manhattan on a bike for what feels like half the episode? I can buy Spidey teaming up with other heroes, but why does he need tech? To sell toys? I'm not buying it. I'm sure the show will get better, but the "New tech!" stuff is strictly garbage, and cheap garbage at that. -Drake Bell is decent as Spidey. He's funny sometimes, and trying way too hard at others. (And no, it's not about the actual writing. I am just talking about his delivery) -Overall, it feels really cluttered. The narrative doesn't take two seconds to sit back and breathe. I find that I actually like the first episode, but the second one is a big "meh". I can't see this going anywhere but up, so I am somewhat excited for future episodes. |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
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People said they hated the 4th wall breakage (I liked it, but do feel it was unnecessary at times), but HE DID IT IN THE COMICS! I mean, for goodness sake, when he develops the webshooters, he's in the room on his own, but yet he's saying how they work - so is h talking to himself? No, it's common sense that he's talking to the reader. He's breaking the 4th wall there too, but the comics make it more subtle. EDIT http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0...ootersaf15.jpg It has always been one of Spidey's character traits. Sure, he doesn't break the 4th wall like Deadpool and She-hulk do, but it is there |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
Just watched both episodes. I was really looking forward to this show, but I found myself mentally tuning out. There's too much silly cuts ; some are funny and some are not. They need to tone down on this aspect and keep what works bests. I felt like I was watching a toned Deadpool in a Spider-Man cartoon.
The animation was very nice and the voice acting is well done. There's enough there to keep me interested as a Spider-Man fan, but it needs better pacing. One moment it can be serious and all of a sudden it's ruined by a gag that doesn't fit into the tone of the scene. If this show fails, I'll be disappointed because it's only a matter for time before ANOTHER Spider-Man show is made and once again we're introduced to MJ, Harry, Aunt May etc I'm tired of these constant re-introductions to the Spider-Man world. I want a show that can last for a number of years, a show that can deliver enough episodes where characters and story-lines an evolve. |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
I've never felt so old then I had watching this show. I felt like I hadn't eaten enough sugar. I definitely felt "wow, I guess I'm just too old for this stuff."
Then Avengers came on, and I remembered that animation doesn't have to be either grim 'n gritty or ADD-addled nonsense. It can be great storytelling for all ages. Ultimate Spider-Man: D- Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes: A |
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Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes: A+ |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
I've only watched the first part of the season premier and I have to agree with what a lot of people are saying, this is just not a good showing for Spidey. The show does not really engage the viewer, everything is spoon-fed so there is really no reason to become invested. I tried not to, but I was inadvertantly comparing USM with TSSM while watching and really that makes me even more disappointed with what they've given us. I wish that if they really wanted a Marvel team up show that they would've retro-fitted TSSM into something along those lines making a season 3. I don't know how much I am going to be able to stick with this one as the site gags are so graiting and overbearing.
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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
Tone down the humour and 4th wall stuff
Reduce the SHIELD/Avengers/other non-Spidey villains and heroes to cameos and I think this show could be great. |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
It's legally streamed on Marvel Kids if anyone cares to watch it and didn't have the chance
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I love the Avengers show, but the starting arc felt confusing at first |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
So far so good! I'm really enjoying the comedy that this show brings. Breaking the fourth wall was good, but sometime I felt it was overdone. However, I think I can get used to it.
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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
Watched the episodes 3 times now.
I really like this show, honestly I do. If people don't like it, fair enough, I respect their opinions. I'm sure it'll get better with time though. I wasn't a fan of Superman: TAS or Wolverine & The X-Men after the first few episodes, but they got better. Different strokes for different folks and all that |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
the 4th wall frozen in time monologues is very Saved by the Bell.... i'm not impressed by this show at all. the animation style is a bit of a let down
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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
Really? It's better than TSSM's.
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the cutaways get pretty annoying, it's like they tried to put as many gimmicks into the episodes as possible Then again that's just my opinion |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
Yeah, the cutaways get annoying.
But I think the primary animation style is miles better than TSSM's. |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
I'll start off by saying I LOVED sPectacular sPider-Man (*wink) and I was sPoiled by how good it was. I saw their panel at SDCC and have a poster signed by the cast in my room. So it's not really possible for me to have an unbiased opinion about this new cartoon considering how SSM was cancelled after 2 seasons and on a cliffhanger so that Marvel could replace it with Ultimate.
It should come as no surprise with that intro THAT I HATE THIS CARTOON. And it's not even a sour grapes thing, I literally groaned every 3 minutes or so watching the premiere. It's like Marvel suddenly forgot how to tell stories and just decided to put out half hour commercials marketing themselves. First off, there's the narrative. 90% of the first episode was a bunch of exposition told with Zack Morris/Malcolm in the Middle style of Peter Parker breaking the 4th wall and having cartoony cutaways in the style of Teen Titans & Family Guy. <= References to 4 different shows in that sentence. Classically, sPidey narrates via inner monologue and that feels organic to the story. I don't blame them for trying to mix things up with this new style that poorly rips off other shows but when it's not taking away from the story, it feels insultingly patronizing. Two examples are --SPOILER ALERT-- when he explains what his sPidey-sense is to the audience while he's...not having one. He sees Trapster looking behind him in fear and rather than TURNING THE F**K AROUND TO HAVE A LOOK sPidey wastes half a minute explaining something everybody already knows--and if they don't, could have been explained way better. Another groan-inducer was him cutting away from his concerned Aunt May to tell us he knows what we're thinking; how lame it is that sPider-Man lives alone with his old aunt. Yeah, because everyone in the audience was judging how lame this 15 year old is for living with a relative. He doesn't come from a 2-parent household? How uncool! Next, there's the world he lives in. Even though SSM had some futuristic tech, it was used pretty sParingly and contributed to the story. Ultimate sPider-Man lives in an Orwellian nightmare. The first thing we hear is JJJ's voice booming from a televised billboard across Manhattan because everybody is forced to listen to his opinions. There is no peace from this man's voice. Even if everybody in NY agreed with him & loved his voice (yeah right) you can see how this is unsettling. Second, there's a gigantic hovercraft floating over a post-9/11 NY. If I didn't already hate how technology from the year 2075 is just a casual part of the "real world" Marvel supposedly takes place in, the glaringly obvious safety hazard of this government run sPy-base being on and in the air 24/7 makes my brain scream NONONONONONONO--!!! until the commercial break. World Famous Super sPy Nick Fury (wait, doesn't that just make him a terrible sPy?) has a very public conversation with sPidey, out in the street and calls him Peter Parker. It's not like public bystanders would pay attention to something like this. And he got this information by being a super sPy *coughBigBrotherIsWatchingYouchough* During this conversation he gives sPidey a NEEDLESSLY HIGH TECH web shooter with holographic crosshairs and invisible chameleon mode and probably batteries made of uranium because why the hell not? Screw practicing his webshooting, now there's an app for that. Also, sPider-Man now has a motorcycle because it's faster then he is. Really SHIELD? Why not a jet pack or teleporter? Oh, because the sPidercycle will sell more toys? Okeydokey. So the world's worst sPy offers to give sPider-Man government grade training which he turns down--not because of Fury's unprofessionalism or distrust of an ever invasive military industrial complex--but because he's a snarky jackass. The next day, the Frightful 4--sorry, 3--blow up a wall at Pete's high school and threaten to harm the students if sPidey doesn't reveal himself. They know he goes to this school because the Trapster hid a tracer on a blob of goo he previously shot at him and sPidey admits he doesn't wash his costume. sPidey fights them until police sirens are heard. =__=; So...in a New York where there's a gigantic flying sPybase hovering over the city surveilling everybody and there's robots and security lasers and Cap & Thor & Iron Man...3 brightly colored supervillains can blow up part of a public high school full of children and the first law enforcers to arrive after several minutes are cops. Can I stop here? |
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
looks like we Spidey fans here on the Hype are pretty much split. seems like we have always been split about stuff in the past: the movies, the comics, the games, and now of course animated series lol
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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
It was really fun watching the episodes with my brother, and I like how we were both reminded of the Weekenders by the greay still backgrounds and Spider-Man talking to the audience
"Locker Knocker Time" for the win Quote:
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Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread
I think the show is fine but too much randomness. When Spidey explains things he goes into too much detail.
What bothers me is how "Ultimate" was slapped on to the title, the show hardly resembles the Ultimate Spider-Man comics. Also, the whole "SHIELD tech" stuff is a bit meh. Probably added to sell toys. Other than that I like it. |
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