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-   -   Webbing formula - Part 1 (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=388121)

Thread Manager 07-09-2012 01:21 PM

Re: Webbing formula
 
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

White_widow 07-09-2012 01:21 PM

Webbing formula
 
Whether you love the franchise or just like chemistry, you've probably thought about spidey's webs. As a continuation of How to make the spiderman webshooters (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=343420), This place is only for the discussion of the webs themselves. Properties, unique traits, and possible mollecular formulas will all be studied here. For those who want the shooters feel free to visit the web shooter shop class.(http://forums.superherohype.com/show...3#post20110783)

White_widow 07-09-2012 01:21 PM

Re: Webbing formula
 
yup. Here's the thing though, If we can only get a fraction of the PVA fiber strength due to our lack of resources, it'll still be stronger than acetate. If we can make full strength, water soluble vinylon at home, then we have created official webbing, like, as strong as steel. Now I say that of course with all the skepticism of a scientist, but due to our new processes, it's at least possible. I just ordered some PVA (a whole pound of it for 12$) and when it comes, I'm going to try that whole nylon out of the glass trick with acetone and nylon. If the fibers come out sufficiently strong, this project might just be over. If not, we have to work on our heating system. There will be no way around it if we go this route. If we want to stick to cellulose acetate, that works too, but all around, PVA would be cheaper and stronger, and for that I say, why not give it a shot?

nolder 07-09-2012 01:23 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MSaleem (Post 23783373)
I was asleep.OK here WW the website you asked me for. I typed in "How many pounds can 1000MPa hold just to see what results would come up, and wow there:

http://www.answer5.com/education_ref...cs/?id=1062695

ok so contact cement. So far we have: Cellulose Acetate, Polyvinyl Alcohol, We cant use Polyisoprene unless you wanna use condoms, Contact Cement but how would we use acetone? Isnt It CONTACT Cement??? So putting it in the cartridgde. It will stick.

To Nolder: I think that is a good idea. But we have something that we are very close to, so that could be a separate test.

I was (and still am) kinda hoping for a response from a veteran like WW, Iron, or wadalt.

As for not releasing the formula, that seems kind of selfish. when you think about it, peter parker was selfish for not telling the world about his super strong adhesive. he didn't have to make millions on it, but he could've told the world so everyone could use it for a variety of less exciting things like construction. What I think really doesn't matter though. The decision of whether to release the formula should be up to those who have been working on it the longest and have contributed the most. I don't mean to discredit your knowledge, but you and I are relatively new to the project. The post count doesn't lie.

jamisicus6 07-09-2012 01:26 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nolder (Post 23785771)
As for not releasing the formula, that seems kind of selfish. when you think about it, peter parker was selfish for not telling the world about his super strong adhesive. he didn't have to make millions on it, but he could've told the world so everyone could use it for a variety of less exciting things like construction. What I think really doesn't matter though. The decision of whether to release the formula should be up to those who have been working on it the longest and have contributed the most. I don't mean to discredit your knowledge, but you and I are relatively new to the project. The post count doesn't lie.

I am intrigued as to how you expect this information to stay secret in any case. The internet is a very public domain, so anyone who wants this information can easily find it here or on the main project website. The limit as to the control we now have over the information is to not advertise it, which may be a decent option. If someone wants to find it, they can.

MSaleem 07-09-2012 01:30 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Im sorry if it looked like I wanted to tell no one. I just thought that we shouldn't be running around telling everyone we see that we have the formula.

nolder 07-09-2012 01:35 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamisicus6 (Post 23785807)
I am intrigued as to how you expect this information to stay secret in any case. The internet is a very public domain, so anyone who wants this information can easily find it here or on the main project website. The limit as to the control we now have over the information is to not advertise it, which may be a decent option. If someone wants to find it, they can.

That's what I'm saying! :woot: I agree

Sal: Hey it's all good. I don't plan on going around showing it off. But If someone sees it and asks how it works, I'm not going to lie. In fact I'll probably direct them to these forums and the website.

EDIT: all of this, of course, is assuming we find success and are able to create something significant :D

White_widow 07-09-2012 01:36 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Who is doing that Sal?

To Nolder, what's the question you need answered?

MSaleem 07-09-2012 01:36 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
There is a certain uniqueness to Peter Parker, and that is his webs and his climbing and all that superhero stuff. If everyone starts using it, then everyone will have the webs, and it wont be as unique as it was when everyone didn't know what the formula. I am not saying that we shouldn't be telling anyone. I am saying that dont go telling everyone you see. I am sorry for the confusion.

Iron_spider 07-09-2012 01:38 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamisicus6 (Post 23785807)
I am intrigued as to how you expect this information to stay secret in any case. The internet is a very public domain, so anyone who wants this information can easily find it here or on the main project website. The limit as to the control we now have over the information is to not advertise it, which may be a decent option. If someone wants to find it, they can.

I agree. I mean, isn't that how we all got here? At some point we all googled "how to make webshooters", with maybe the exception of widow.

I can understand where you're coming from, but we can only control who knows to a certain extent, by not going around and telling people like you said. Eventually though, it's possible that this could become popular. It could happen.

MSaleem 07-09-2012 01:40 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Oh fine nvm i said that

nolder 07-09-2012 01:47 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by White_widow (Post 23785903)
Who is doing that Sal?

To Nolder, what's the question you need answered?

I think it was on the second to last page of the last thread. it was reguarding extracting polystyrene or other organic plastics from household plastic containers using the "plastic container code system"

White_widow 07-09-2012 01:53 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
ah yes. Well, if you want to use a heating system, then I say, go for it. If not, that is going to be very difficult. All of those plastics are pretty solvent resistant.

MSaleem 07-09-2012 01:53 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Say WW, where did you get the pound of PVA for 12$? Cause compared to amazon, thats pretty good! Amazon sells them for grams, and Liters.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_sc...4893a4f60e2eb6

MSaleem 07-09-2012 01:54 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Oh and btw are heating coil for evaporation and spinning to different options that have the same result?

spidey44 07-09-2012 01:57 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
MSaleem do you mean dry spinning if so then the heating coil is needed to dry the polymer, so if this is what you're talking about then they're the same thing.

MSaleem 07-09-2012 01:59 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
What is electrospinning then?

spidey44 07-09-2012 02:00 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrospinning

White_widow 07-09-2012 02:00 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
yeah, Sal, I didn't know that dry spinning was a thing when I posted that acetone evaporation video.

MSaleem 07-09-2012 02:03 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
WW are you being sarcastic? I dont know much about spinning

What video? Oh and where did you order the PVA for 12$

jamisicus6 07-09-2012 02:08 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Can I get an assurance that PVA is soluble in Acetone? I've done a bit of background research and its apparently soluble in water and sort of in ethanol, but apart from that its pretty damned solid.

The Cellulose Acetate is the elastomer in this case yes? It will be needed because otherwise the Vinylon fibres will be very brittle.

MSaleem 07-09-2012 02:13 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Jamiscus6 - I thought the elastomer should be Polychloroprene. It is similar to Polyisoprene.

WW - NVM I found the website that sells the PVA

http://store.blueconcrete.com/fiberz-pva-4000/

jamisicus6 07-09-2012 02:17 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Ah, that makes more sense. Which would make the Cellulose Acetate, what? I have to admit, I've not done much research into the fluid yet. I've mainly been looking at the shooter.

MSaleem 07-09-2012 02:22 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
Jamiscus6 - That would make the Cellulose Acetate the co - polymer mixed with something that I forgot uh oh. Are we mixing the Acetate with Nylon? Someone remind me what it was.

White_widow 07-09-2012 02:25 PM

Re: Webbing formula - Part 1
 
No sarcasm. I was being honest.

I didn't know these extrusion methods had an easily replicated process. PVA solidifies in acetone. PVA in fibrous form is flexible, but can be made elastic through the addition of water. Cellulose acetate is the strength polymer, however, if we can spin PVA fibers to even a quarter of their tensile strength in industry, we have something stronger. Now that we have ways to spin the fluid, I think it would be worth while investigating ways to have strong fluid as this would satisfy all four of the major properties in one material.


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