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-   -   Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=388933)

Isildurīs Heir 07-17-2012 02:41 PM

Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Winter Soldier?
The Falcon?
Oh boy....

This screams Iron Man 2 all over again, which was, imo, the worst Marvel movie post-well....Iron Man.
There was too much going on...Whiplash, Nick Fury, Black Widow, Justin Hammer, War Machine...even the action was not all that.

Now, this is the first solo Cap movie after being defrosted, which means this should be about him being accustomed to the 21st century.
To have Sam Wilson (not The Falcon) in the movie i can get, but to have the return of Bucky is waaaayyyy too much.

BoredGuy 07-17-2012 02:44 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Nah, Bucky sends that "man out of time" theme home.
How better to illustrate how things have changed than to confront him with a distorted product of the modern world in the form of his best friend?
A whole lotta drama to be mined there...

Not to say I wouldn't like to see Baron Zemo first, but I loved Winter Soldier, so..

Isildurīs Heir 07-17-2012 02:49 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BoredGuy (Post 23885047)
Nah, Bucky sends that "man out of time" theme home.
How better to illustrate how things have changed than to confront him with a distorted product of the modern world in the form of his best friend?
A whole lotta drama to be mined there...

Not to say I wouldn't like to see Baron Zemo first, but I loved Winter Soldier, so..

IMO, once again, too early.
It is better than to have him alone getting accustomed and when he does (say 3rd or 4th movie), throw Winter Soldier/Bucky

Chewy 07-17-2012 02:52 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Iron Man 2 isn't weak because there are a lot of characters in it. Iron Man 2 is weak because there are a lot of characters who are given nothing interesting to do in it.

Isildurīs Heir 07-17-2012 02:53 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewy (Post 23885135)
Iron Man 2 isn't weak because there are a lot of characters in it. Iron Man 2 is weak because there are a lot of characters who are given nothing interesting to do in it.

No argument here, but the point still stands, there were too many characters...

BoredGuy 07-17-2012 02:53 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Well if anything, I think they don't wanna trudge through 2 or 3 movies of him being alone and alienated.
Nobody wants a mopey Cap for that long, perhaps best to wrap up those loose threads right away

Chewy 07-17-2012 03:06 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Isildurīs Heir (Post 23885155)
No argument here, but the point still stands, there were too many characters...

Not really. If they had written stronger arcs for War Machine and Whiplash and given Black Widow just one interesting thing to do no one would be complaining about the amount of characters.

scifiwolf 07-17-2012 03:18 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
I still don't for the life of me understand the idea that it can be "too soon" for WS. I for one don't want to see Red Skull come back for at least one movie. Besides, the drama factor is there. This has a lot of potential for boatloads of good storytelling. When is it ever too soon to tell a good story with good characters?

LauraT 07-17-2012 03:28 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Quote:

This screams Iron Man 2 all over again, which was, imo, the worst Marvel movie post-well....Iron Man.
There was too much going on...Whiplash, Nick Fury, Black Widow, Justin Hammer, War Machine...even the action was not all that.
This movies does have the potential to be a mess, in a new era with a new tone (probably) and more differences than usual for a sequel. That goes especially if it also uses flashbacks heavily and doesn't use the characters wisely, but that's the same as many movie really.

That was the problem with IM2, I agree with posters upthread who said it was full of characters doing not much for most of the movie, including two of the most interesting storylines, Vanko and War Machine. Hopefully if BW is in this it will be in her Avengers persona + WS and not her pseudo "love interest"/hanger on mode.

The Avengers had a dozen or so plot threads that felt satisfying because Whedon was able to use the characters wisely and make every moment count. That's where the Russo brothers might prove their worth as well. As television producers/directors they juggle a lot of characters and longterm story threads and Community in particular can be very non linear, jumping all over the place.

Avenger 07-17-2012 03:29 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
There needs to be more to the story than "wow, the 2010s are so much weirder than the 1940s!" There isn't enough of an emotional hook to that without giving Steve some kind of connection to the world he used to know. What better connection than his best friend?

KangConquers 07-17-2012 06:06 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
So this film has 3 characters, and you're saying it's overstuffed already? GTFO.

Remember that in the modern age, EVERYONE Captain America knows is a superhero or a secret agent. They didn't even try to give him a civilian life until the early 1980s, and dropped the idea by the end of the decade. So you're probably going to see a cast full of SHIELD agents, terrorists, and superheroes.

TheVileOne 07-17-2012 09:16 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
It really just depends in execution. Bucky's fate was sort of built-in from the first movie that he could be plugged back in as Winter Soldier. Bucky for the most part will be an antagonist or adversary to Cap throughout the movie most likely. Having Falcon not much different than having Bucky and the Howling Commandoes in the first movie.

Suzanne78 07-17-2012 09:23 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
I really don't see the issue here. Cap has to have a supporting cast. Falcon, and I assume Sharon, were obvious once The Winter Soldier was announced. We don't know who's the big puppetmaster pulling WS' strings yet. My only qualms have been with the directors, but I'm getting more excited because Marvel's clearly taking care with the casting for this movie. I agree with others - it'll all depend on execution.

I really do hope they go for someone else than Amanda Rhigetti (I thinkt that's her name) from TFA. She didn't really spark for me as a strong enough presence for Sharon Carter. Definitely not someone on Haley Atwell's level.

Majik1387 07-17-2012 09:42 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
I don't see how it's adding a lot of characters at all. Most of who Steve interacted with in the past would be too old or dead by now.

Peggy Carter - Too old or dead
Colonel Phillips - Too old or dead
Howard Stark - Most likely dead(based on Iron Man movies' time-frame)
Dr. Erskine - Dead
Heinz Kruger - Dead
The 5 Howling Commando members:
Tim "Dum Dum" Dugan - Too old, or a Shield agent as in the comics
Gabe Jones - Too old or dead
Jim Morita - Too old or dead
Jacques Denier - Too old or dead
James Falsworth - Too old, dead, or saved to later be used as Union Jack

That's 8-10 characters out. Plenty of room for more.

So far the only new characters are Falcon and Winter Soldier, though the latter was technically in the last movie. Maybe Sharon Carter if the end female Shield Agent(Amanda Righetti) isn't her.

Returning characters?
Captain America
Nick Fury(most likely)

Those added up are 5 characters total.

Possible returning characters if story/script permits:
Red Skull(depending on if he really dissolved by the Cosmic Cube or was transported to another dimension; etc)
Arnim Zola(depending on how much inspiration they take from the comic for the character)

So.....7 characters?

Yeah, you are the only one who doesn't like how this is going.

Jexx 07-17-2012 11:35 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
I'm excited for Falcon, and the Winter Soldier.

So, I dunno.. maybe you are.

Hawkingbird 07-18-2012 01:56 AM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
This is more the "I've died and gone to heaven" type movie. It sounds amazing!

Silvermoth 07-18-2012 05:11 AM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
I'm willing to give it a go until I see a trailer. I wasn't too pleased with how the last one turned out but I'm hoping Marvel learned their lesson and won't go for cheap toy marketing as much with this one.

If the Avengers have done anything, it has reignited my love of a good comic book movie by Marvel!

Jake Cassidy 07-18-2012 06:02 AM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Cap
Fury
Bucky
Falcon
Sharon

Yep. Too many characters.

Chewy 07-18-2012 07:50 AM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
They should combine Falcon and Sharon into one character. Falconess.

There you go, crisis averted.

Jexx 07-18-2012 11:40 AM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvermoth (Post 23893517)
I'm willing to give it a go until I see a trailer. I wasn't too pleased with how the last one turned out but I'm hoping Marvel learned their lesson and won't go for cheap toy marketing as much with this one.

If the Avengers have done anything, it has reignited my love of a good comic book movie by Marvel!

Why are you always talking about toys?

O.o

And the first movie was fine.

Lord 07-18-2012 11:42 AM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
From what we heard of the film it seems like a complete mess, nobody seems to know what they want.

Chewy 07-18-2012 11:57 AM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord (Post 23895947)
From what we heard of the film it seems like a complete mess, nobody seems to know what they want.

Um, what?

Doesn't it seem like everyone involved wants it to be an adaptation of the Winter Soldier storyline?

What seems messy to you? Hiring an actor to play Falcon, a pivotal role from that storyline? Bringing back the actors who played Cap and Bucky, the leads from that storyline?

What are you talking about?

Lord 07-18-2012 12:13 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
The fact that during the course of its production they already planed to use MODOK, plan to make it about a man out of time, are already going to use the Winter Soldier, are going to have the Falcon, there are rumors of SHIELD being important, of Hawkeye and maybe Black Widow making an appearance, confronting an old Peggy, more flashbacks of world war II are being mentioned since they mentioned a sequel, and Armin Zola as villain was foreshadowed in the first film.

In my humble opinion they haven't seemed to be shure about what to do until now, but that's just my opinion.

TheVileOne 07-18-2012 01:08 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Well we know Nick Fury will be in the movie as well and it will be partly about Steve finding his place in the modern world.

Hawkman won't be in the movie. Also we've received no confirmation Hawkeye and Black Widow will be in it either.

Lord how do you know what they are sure of about? All your examples are being based off of unconfirmed rumors and nothing concrete. All we really know right now is the title, release date, Falcon will be in it, Winter Soldier is in it, Fury is in it, and its about Cap trying to find his place in the world again.

Suzanne78 07-18-2012 01:40 PM

Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheVileOne (Post 23897077)

Lord how do you know what they are sure of about? All your examples are being based off of unconfirmed rumors and nothing concrete. All we really know right now is the title, release date, Falcon will be in it, Winter Soldier is in it, Fury is in it, and its about Cap trying to find his place in the world again.

Bolded b/c it bears repeating. For all we know, MODOCK was in a first draft of the sequel and whatnot, as well as rumors of HE/BW and so forth. The only things we know for sure are: 1) Steve's still a Man Out of Time, 2) Winter Soldier is coming, and 3) Falcon will be a part of this story. That's all that's been confirmed by the studio at this point.


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