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Godzilla2000 08-05-2012 09:39 AM

Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
I am shocked SHOCKED that there is not a thread in here dedicated to Loki specific banter!!! Well, I guess I have to take it upon myself to start one.

Anyways, my gut instinct is thinking that this is going to be the movie where Loki irrevocably crosses the line into the dark side and falls from grace for all eternity.

Silvermoth 08-06-2012 05:18 AM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
I actually think they might go for the opposite. Loki's been the bad guy for two films now. I think they might try and make him likeable, even if it is in a *****y way.

I think that'll be one of the themes, Thor trying to save his brother.

jaqua99 08-06-2012 10:50 AM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
I don't. This reminds me of one of the more recent Thor runs. When Loki is supposedly in support of his brother, and you think there is some good happening, when he then manipulated Bor to attack Thor, resulting in Thor killing him, and Thor being exiled, then loki allies himself with Doom. To eventually become ruler of asgard.

I don't want Thor to try to save his brother in this movie, just to please his fangirls (who apparently know nothing about the character of Loki).

Thor has done enough trying to save Loki, in Thor, and Avengers. The line has been crossed. Thor should know his brother his beyond help. Keep it that way. Keep Loki a minor minor character in this movie.

This should be about Thor. Loki should answer for his crimes. And maybe do some few dark things. But that should be it.

Loki and Thor as a dynamic should not be a main point of this movie guys.

Godzilla2000 08-06-2012 11:10 AM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Maybe at the start of the film Loki will be against the forces of Asgard, but he may just have a change of heart. I seem to recall that in the myths Loki's allegiances are pretty bipolar. I was also thinking that while Malekith's goal is ruling the nine realms I'd think Loki would be more satisfied with not subjugating Asgard but making Thor his slave and taking out all his anger on his adoptive brother.

Caboose 08-06-2012 01:02 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Well, since Thor and company will supposedly visit multiple realms, perhaps Loki will be forced to act as a sort of guide to them, since he said in Avengers he's seen a lot since the end of Thor.

jaqua99 08-08-2012 10:03 AM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Loki is such an evil character, it would be weird to see him do something good, other than say, helping in the defeat of Surtur to save Asgard

BigThor 08-08-2012 02:06 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaqua99 (Post 24075867)
I don't. This reminds me of one of the more recent Thor runs. When Loki is supposedly in support of his brother, and you think there is some good happening, when he then manipulated Bor to attack Thor, resulting in Thor killing him, and Thor being exiled, then loki allies himself with Doom. To eventually become ruler of asgard.

I don't want Thor to try to save his brother in this movie, just to please his fangirls (who apparently know nothing about the character of Loki).

Thor has done enough trying to save Loki, in Thor, and Avengers. The line has been crossed. Thor should know his brother his beyond help. Keep it that way. Keep Loki a minor minor character in this movie.

This should be about Thor. Loki should answer for his crimes. And maybe do some few dark things. But that should be it.

Loki and Thor as a dynamic should not be a main point of this movie guys.

Agreed :up:

JustSomeGuy 08-08-2012 04:49 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
All I want is one scene with Loki and Odin. After that awesome scene with the two in Thor and everything that has happened since, I want to see Loki and Odin together in a room, and see what they have to say to one another. As much as it pains me to say it, I think this movie should have a small amount of Loki considering he was the main villain 2 movies in a row.

ddddeeee 08-08-2012 04:59 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Loki is just as, if not more popular than Thor at this point. He'll have a fairly big role I think.

Keyser Soze 08-08-2012 07:43 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
It's not just the fangirls who think Loki should have a redemptive arc. I think it's a natural, sensible place for the character to go, given his portrayal in the last two movies, and especially with a new villain taking centre stage in this film.

Taking this approach is not just fan-service, and it's not untrue to the character. Some of the best Loki stories in the comics have dealt with his moral ambiguity and tackled the question of whether or not he's beyond redemption. Just making him an evil badass would be a step backwards at this stage, and would be doing a disservice to the complex, conflicted character Tom Hiddleston has so skillfully brought to life.

snowball's mom 08-08-2012 08:38 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze (Post 24098021)
It's not just the fangirls who think Loki should have a redemptive arc. I think it's a natural, sensible place for the character to go, given his portrayal in the last two movies, and especially with a new villain taking centre stage in this film.

Taking this approach is not just fan-service, and it's not untrue to the character. Some of the best Loki stories in the comics have dealt with his moral ambiguity and tackled the question of whether or not he's beyond redemption. Just making him an evil badass would be a step backwards at this stage, and would be doing a disservice to the complex, conflicted character Tom Hiddleston has so skillfully brought to life.

I agree.

JustSomeGuy 08-08-2012 09:06 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze (Post 24098021)
It's not just the fangirls who think Loki should have a redemptive arc. I think it's a natural, sensible place for the character to go, given his portrayal in the last two movies, and especially with a new villain taking centre stage in this film.

Taking this approach is not just fan-service, and it's not untrue to the character. Some of the best Loki stories in the comics have dealt with his moral ambiguity and tackled the question of whether or not he's beyond redemption. Just making him an evil badass would be a step backwards at this stage, and would be doing a disservice to the complex, conflicted character Tom Hiddleston has so skillfully brought to life.


Now obviously I don't know what it would be like, but if this did end up happening, I would be totally disappointed. I like fully evil Loki. He is a screwed up, unstable being with an enormous ego and no empathy. He has already tried to destroy one planet and force another into subjugation, after getting in deep with some space gangs. I wouldn't want to see that guy all of a sudden turn good after everything he has done, it would seem (to me) out of character, based solely on what has happened in Thor and The Avengers. If anything I think he would be bitter than he lost and only drive him to do something on a larger scale.

I especially loved Whedon's take on Loki, who he wrote as a purposefully over-the-top evil, theatrical villain. I felt like it was kind of an homage to old school villains who were very theatrical in how evil they were. This is the guy who snickered at the sight of sentiment...how much more exaggerated evil can you get, lol? I thought it was awesome. This character doesn't have any moral ambiguity. He is evil, and I like it that way.

If he does do something indicating he has had a change of heart, I only hope it is part of a larger villainous plan in which he is just doing it to trick Thor, or Odin or whomever.

steintym 08-08-2012 09:09 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
I wouldn't mind seeing Loki as more of the puppet master pulling the strings. He appears to be trying to redeem himself in Thor 2, but he's really pulling the strings behind some evil plan. I don't think we've really seen that Loki yet.

Anubis 08-08-2012 09:10 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaqua99 (Post 24093191)
Loki is such an evil character, it would be weird to see him do something good, other than say, helping in the defeat of Surtur to save Asgard


Clearly you've not read much with Loki in it. He's not evil, he's.....complicated. :o

BigThor 08-09-2012 12:56 AM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steintym (Post 24098845)
I wouldn't mind seeing Loki as more of the puppet master pulling the strings. He appears to be trying to redeem himself in Thor 2, but he's really pulling the strings behind some evil plan. I don't think we've really seen that Loki yet.

Now THIS is the Loki I want to see, it would show more of his mischevious scheming side which is very essential to his character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddddeeee (Post 24096691)
Loki is just as, if not more popular than Thor at this point. He'll have a fairly big role I think.

He's not more popular than Thor, especially after Hulk made him a walking punchline.

Regardless the movie is still called "Thor" and not "Loki", so he's still a secondary whether or not he's more popular. ;)

R_Hythlodeus 08-09-2012 03:21 AM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigThor (Post 24100705)

He's not more popular than Thor, especially after Hulk made him a walking punchline.
)

You're obviously not female...

Keyser Soze 08-09-2012 04:28 AM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy (Post 24098811)
Now obviously I don't know what it would be like, but if this did end up happening, I would be totally disappointed. I like fully evil Loki. He is a screwed up, unstable being with an enormous ego and no empathy. He has already tried to destroy one planet and force another into subjugation, after getting in deep with some space gangs. I wouldn't want to see that guy all of a sudden turn good after everything he has done, it would seem (to me) out of character, based solely on what has happened in Thor and The Avengers. If anything I think he would be bitter than he lost and only drive him to do something on a larger scale.

What do you mean you don't know what it would be like? We haven't had a "fully evil Loki" in the films yet. He's a conflicted, nuanced character, which is a big part of his appeal. In Thor, his plan is basically to save Asgard, be regarded as a hero, and earn his father's love. But because Loki is Loki, his plan for doing that revolves around mischief, deceit and trickery. You should always be questioning what Loki's motives and intentions are. The second he's just plainly bad with no innkling of doubt, THAT would be when he veers out of character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy (Post 24098811)
I especially loved Whedon's take on Loki, who he wrote as a purposefully over-the-top evil, theatrical villain. I felt like it was kind of an homage to old school villains who were very theatrical in how evil they were. This is the guy who snickered at the sight of sentiment...how much more exaggerated evil can you get, lol? I thought it was awesome. This character doesn't have any moral ambiguity. He is evil, and I like it that way.

I think you need to watch that scene again. When Loki says "Sentiment", a single tear rolls down his cheek. Huddleston played that as Loki genuinely torn over whether or not to accept Thor's offer of reconciliation, before deciding there's no way back for him. Yes, Loki's actions are more overtly evil in The Avengers than in Thor, but his best scenes remain his interactions with Thor, where we get just a hint that he might not be beyond saving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy (Post 24098811)
If he does do something indicating he has had a change of heart, I only hope it is part of a larger villainous plan in which he is just doing it to trick Thor, or Odin or whomever.

I'd be inclined to respect the reverse, where for much of the film it seems like he might be in league with Maleketh, only for a third-act betrayal revealing he has sided with Thor and Odin.

Silvermoth 08-09-2012 05:13 AM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze (Post 24098021)
It's not just the fangirls who think Loki should have a redemptive arc. I think it's a natural, sensible place for the character to go, given his portrayal in the last two movies, and especially with a new villain taking centre stage in this film.

I agree with this. Loki's not all about being bad. He's ambigious. You could almost call him a hero in his own right (or at least an anti-hero)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis (Post 24098847)
Clearly you've not read much with Loki in it. He's not evil, he's.....complicated. :o

Did you ever hear that hilarious story about the kid who went up to Alan Rickman and said 'why do you always play bad guys'?

And Alan looked daggers at the kid and said...

Quote:

"I don't play bad guys. I play very...interesting...people"
(Make sure you say that doing an Alan Rickman voice.

Well, Loki is a very...interesting...person.

JustSomeGuy 08-09-2012 06:16 AM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Quote:

What do you mean you don't know what it would be like?
What I mean when I say "I don't know what it would be like," I mean maybe once I see how they go about portraying Loki as turning good, I might like it, if done right. But right now I am against it because it seems out of character.

Quote:

We haven't had a "fully evil Loki" in the films yet. He's a conflicted, nuanced character, which is a big part of his appeal. In Thor, his plan is basically to save Asgard, be regarded as a hero, and earn his father's love. But because Loki is Loki, his plan for doing that revolves around mischief, deceit and trickery. You should always be questioning what Loki's motives and intentions are. The second he's just plainly bad with no innkling of doubt, THAT would be when he veers out of character.
How can you say we haven't scene fully evil Loki? I don't care if he thought his motives were noble, doesn't every villain think his actions are noble? He tried to destroy an entire planet and then subjugate Earth. He also killed Coulson, tried to kill Thor on multiple occasions and tried to kill Tony Stark. How is this not fully evil? If that isn't fully evil, what in the world is fully evil? Give me an example, please.


Quote:

I think you need to watch that scene again. When Loki says "Sentiment", a single tear rolls down his cheek. Huddleston played that as Loki genuinely torn over whether or not to accept Thor's offer of reconciliation, before deciding there's no way back for him. Yes, Loki's actions are more overtly evil in The Avengers than in Thor, but his best scenes remain his interactions with Thor, where we get just a hint that he might not be beyond saving.
I am sorry but...no. That is wrong. You need to watch that scene again. He wasn't "torn" over whether or not to accept Thor's offer. Maybe in that brief moment where it glances at him and he is staring right back at Thor. But then he immediately stabs him in the ribs, and laughs at the sight of Thor expressing sentimentality.

Now maybe you are right about Loki having a redemptive nature in the comics. I am just saying that with this version of Loki, it would seem out of character at this point for Loki to have a change of heart and decide to help Thor, who he has an intense hatred for and has tried to kill multiple times.

Keyser Soze 08-09-2012 07:22 AM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
As I said, Loki did horrible, evil things I'm The Avengers, no doubt, and had a good time doing many of them. But Thor said it best when he said that Loki is lost in a cloud of madness, but deep down, he's still his brother, and he wasn't always evil.

And no, I'm not wrong. I'm not talking about a personal interpretation of the scene, I'm talking about objective fact. After stabbing Thor, tears are rolling down his cheeks as he says, "Sentiment.". I saw the film in cinemas 3 times, and noticed it each time. The people I went to see the film with on each occasion all remarked on it. People on these forums have commented on it as a standout Loki moment. It shows there is some level of sadness and regret about his actions, unless you want to argue that he's so happy about being bad that he's crying tears of joy.

Loki is a villain, no doubt. But to suggest he is just pure evil with no hints whatsoever of moral conflict in these films is laughable.

Chewy 08-09-2012 07:37 AM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
A Loki redemption arc seems almost inevitable to me, but it seems like it would be a better fit in Thor 3, finally doing something for the greater good:

http://i.imgur.com/2Q51a.jpg

And probably ending with his death.

His Thor 2 arc will probably revolve around his being willing to do anything to weasel his way out of his punishment

jaqua99 08-09-2012 12:09 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis (Post 24098847)
Clearly you've not read much with Loki in it. He's not evil, he's.....complicated. :o

...I don't care what any of you say, it has gone beyond his complications.

Loki is one evil SOB. Period. I will argue this to the death. Loki is evil, the movie verse seemed to focus on the complications of him, but as far as I have read in the comics, Loki is evil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigThor (Post 24100705)
Now THIS is the Loki I want to see, it would show more of his mischevious scheming side which is very essential to his character.



He's not more popular than Thor, especially after Hulk made him a walking punchline.

Regardless the movie is still called "Thor" and not "Loki", so he's still a secondary whether or not he's more popular. ;)

Yup

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewy (Post 24101855)
A Loki redemption arc seems almost inevitable to me, but it seems like it would be a better fit in Thor 3, finally doing something for the greater good:

http://i.imgur.com/2Q51a.jpg

And probably ending with his death.

His Thor 2 arc will probably revolve around his being willing to do anything to weasel his way out of his punishment

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY this is what I want. Keep Loki's redemption to Thor 3. Involving Surtur.

Anubis 08-09-2012 12:42 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Ah, the stick your fingers in your ears and go "na na na boo boo, stick your head in doo doo" method. Kudos. :up:

Chewy 08-09-2012 12:49 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Haha. So wait, he's unwaveringly evil but you want him redeemed in Thor 3? Gotta pick one :oldrazz:

jaqua99 08-09-2012 02:27 PM

Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis (Post 24104405)
Ah, the stick your fingers in your ears and go "na na na boo boo, stick your head in doo doo" method. Kudos. :up:

wait...what lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewy (Post 24104507)
Haha. So wait, he's unwaveringly evil but you want him redeemed in Thor 3? Gotta pick one :oldrazz:

Yes. Why can't he be evil and still fight for asgard's survival?

Look at seige, it went WAY to far, and he was sincerely sorry.

Does that make him suddenly not evil? No.

Thor 3, some Surtur Saga, resulting in Asgard itself's possible destruction. Surtur kills Odin, Thor inherits the Odin power, he can't defeat Surtur alone. Loki, not wanting Asgard to be destroyed, OBVIOUSLY ( he isn't Thanos for christ's sake), helps Thor in defeating Surtur, thus keeping Asgard safe.

There is nothing about evil fighting evil to save yourself/home that suddenly ends the image of something being evil guys.


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