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jaqua99 10-14-2012 11:46 AM

Surtur's Role
 
Based on the synopsis, it seems very likely that Surtur will be a force in this movie. So, what do you guys think his role will be? Let's discuss!

I think there will be references throughout the movie to him, and the after credit scene could be him finishing twilight.

I think it would be cool if through out the movie we heard *banging*, which is the realms shaking from his welding :P

American Maid 10-14-2012 12:01 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaqua99 (Post 24462499)
Based on the synopsis, it seems very likely that Surtur will be a force in this movie. So, what do you guys think his role will be? Let's discuss!

I think there will be references throughout the movie to him, and the after credit scene could be him finishing twilight.

I think it would be cool if through out the movie we heard *banging*, which is the realms shaking from his welding :P

That all sounds good to me!

R_Hythlodeus 10-14-2012 12:07 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
I doubt Surtur is part of T:TDW. The description seems to contradict that in almost every way possible.
Besides, why should they include a villain as one-dimensional as Surtur whe the awesomeness that is Malekith is already involved? That would be a very bad idea.

Neo_3 10-14-2012 12:31 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Hythlodeus (Post 24462603)
I doubt Surtur is part of T:TDW. The description seems to contradict that in almost every way possible.
Besides, why should they include a villain as one-dimensional as Surtur whe the awesomeness that is Malekith is already involved? That would be a very bad idea.

What is this in reference to:Faced with an enemy that even Odin and Asgard cannot withstand. Who are the enemies that fit this bill? Only a handful and one them is Surtur. Notice how it says Odin and Asgard not just Odin. I think any (or close to) any enemy of of Asgard or other Odin can face alone, so why the Asgard? Surtur would be one that would take Odin and a good portion of Asgard to take especially if he has the Twilight Sword.

R_Hythlodeus 10-14-2012 12:36 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo_3 (Post 24462699)
What is this in reference to:Faced with an enemy that even Odin and Asgard cannot withstand. Who are the enemies that fit this bill? Only a handful and one them is Surtur. Notice how it says Odin and Asgard not just Odin. I think any (or close to) any enemy of of Asgard or other Odin can face alone, so why the Asgard? Surtur would be one that would take Odin and a good portion of Asgard to take especially if he has the Twilight Sword.

Surtur is certainly not older than the universe itself. He's no creature from the shadowd. Whatever this description describes. It is not Surtur.

Neo_3 10-14-2012 12:58 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Are you sure they are the same. First it says the enemy that predates the Universe, then it talks about Malekith's army and then it says an enemy that Odin/Asgard cannot withstand. If they were the same why separate them wit Malekith and his army. Maybe the shadowy enemy means and enemy in the background pulling the strings such as a cosmic being and still have room for Surtur as the enemy.

cherokeesam 10-14-2012 10:55 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
The "shadowy enemy that predates the universe itself" is definitely not Surtur. There's really only one or two options from the comic book that would fit that description, and they're pretty left field: The Dweller in Darkness, and The Beyonder. Either is a possibility, due to crossing paths with Thor in the comics, but it seems unnecessary to start adding extraneous characters to the plot.

Instead, I'd be willing to bet that the "shadowy figure" is, of course, Thanos; since the next line reads: "In the aftermath of Marvel’s “Thor” and “Marvel’s The Avengers,” Thor fights to restore order across the cosmos." The seeds to Thanos' involvement with Thor and Asgard were already planted in those two movies. Apparently, they'll retcon Thanos' age to make him more ancient than he is in the books, but that may not be such a bad thing.

As for Surtur: the inclusion of Malekith and Kurse clearly point towards Simonson's Twilight Sword saga, in which the Dark Elves' fate is intimately tied with the Fire Giant. I'm sure Surtur will have at least a cameo at the end as a setup to Thor 3, and possibly even be the Big Boss Battle for the end of Thor 2.

I think TDW will show Thanos as the force behind the Marauders invading Asgard at the beginning of the movie; that his attack is just a ruse to distract the Asgardians from Thanos' true intent of stealing the Infinity Gauntlet (back) from Odin's Treasury; that the movie proceeds from there to deal with Malekith and Kurse as the bulk of the movie; and that the end will feature Surtur rising to become the teaser Big Bad for Thor 3.

Neo_3 10-15-2012 06:36 AM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Cherokeesam I didn't say that. I said that the enemy that Odin and Asgard cannot withstand is Surtur. We don't know if the 2 are the same or different enemies.

cherokeesam 10-15-2012 06:46 AM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo_3 (Post 24466693)
Cherokeesam I didn't say that. I said that the enemy that Odin and Asgard cannot withstand is Surtur. We don't know if the 2 are the same or different enemies.

Pretty sure the synopsis indicates different enemies. In stages.

Marvel’s “Thor: The Dark World” continues the big-screen adventures of Thor, the Mighty Avenger, as he battles to save Earth and all the Nine Realms from a shadowy enemy that predates the universe itself. In the aftermath of Marvel’s “Thor” and “Marvel’s The Avengers,” Thor fights to restore order across the cosmos:(Thanos, as set up in The Avengers and Thor movies)

but an ancient race led by the vengeful Malekith returns to plunge the universe back into darkness: (Malekith, obviously, with Kurse and the Dark Elves)

Faced with an enemy that even Odin and Asgard cannot withstand, Thor must embark on his most perilous and personal journey yet, one that will reunite him with Jane Foster and force him to sacrifice everything to save us all: (Surtur, since Simonson's storyline pointed to him. Odin and Asgard can *certainly* withstand Malekith and Kurse, so it's not just them.)

jaqua99 10-15-2012 12:24 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
^ Okay, so let me get this strait, for some clarity, you think the "shadowy figure" is thanos and the "enemy even odin and asgard cannot withstand" is surtur? So you think they are talking about two villains here? that is correct? Interesting, while I do not agree with you, I think they are talking about one villain, I can totally see what you said, being what the meant though.

Here is a few things to ponder though, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you Sam, because I can totally see them going with what you think it reads, but here ARE two things I think we should keep our minds open about.

"Predating the universe itself", okay, well one, is that to be taken on literally? It sure is, I would say so. Now, since you said the beyonder and galactus and TOAA are the only ones who predate the universe, wouldn't it be possible for them to change Surtur's history a bit as well, if they would change Thanos'? See what I am saying? Since you said they may make Thanos older than what he is in the comics, they could do the same for surtur as well. And Surtur has been around since the dawn of the universe, so if the whole "predating universe" enemy has a changed history, it could be Thanos, OR Surtur.

The only thing that is making me hesitant about that, is remember Starlin signed off for Thanos in Guardians, and avengers 2, if Thanos is going to be in this movie, why wouldn't he have signed off on him for this as well? Ya know? I think this synopsis can be read as a few different things, tthe whole "shadowy enemy" thing could be taken literally, or metaphorically, I mean, in a synopsis, I wouldn't be surprised if it was supposed to be metaphorically. But it could really be either.

I just feel Kurse, Malekith, Backround Surtur, and Backround Thanos would be a bit too much, and as for that, I think they are talking about one enemy here, given how I view the synopsis almost as like, well a small paragraph, if you will, the last sentence to me seems to be summing up the few details of the rest of the synopsis, a conclusion if you will. Which which I am leaning towards surtur personally. Though I could see it being both, plot wise. I just don't know how it can be thanos if starlin signed off on him for gotg and avengers 2, why wouldnt he sign off on this?

And I really hope this movie stays exclusively to Thor's world.

cherokeesam 10-15-2012 12:37 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Yes, they could retcon Surtur's age to predate the universe as well. The Eternal Flame he uses to light the Twilight Sword is supposed to be at least as old as "the dawn of time," and Surtur was around for that (Odin stole the Flame from him way back then). And wasn't the Eternal Flame supposedly one of the treasures shown in Odin's Treasury in the Thor deleted scene....?

So yeah, it could work. But if so, you're *definitely* looking at a MUCH larger role for Surtur in this film than just a cameo or setup for Thor 3....he's likely *The* Big Bad of the movie.

jaqua99 10-15-2012 12:42 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cherokeesam (Post 24467683)
Yes, they could retcon Surtur's age to predate the universe as well. The Eternal Flame he uses to light the Twilight Sword is supposed to be at least as old as "the dawn of time," and Surtur was around for that (Odin stole the Flame from him way back then). And wasn't the Eternal Flame supposedly one of the treasures shown in Odin's Treasury in the Thor deleted scene....?

So yeah, it could work. But if so, you're *definitely* looking at a MUCH larger role for Surtur in this film than just a cameo or setup for Thor 3....he's likely *The* Big Bad of the movie.

I know, that's how the synopsis describes it. But then again, it would defeat the purpous of having Kurse. Do you think its possible that this whole synopsis was talking about Surtur, his presence through out the movie is completely clear, and then he gets set up for 3?

I know it sorta goes against what the synopsis says...cause the synopsis makes it sound like said villain will have a big role..but...well it's tough

Neo_3 10-16-2012 09:54 AM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
I don't get, wouldn't the synopsis reveal the villains for the movie not for setup in future movies.

American Maid 10-16-2012 10:27 AM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
It might be useful to review the official synopsis for Thor1, which was released about 1 year prior to the movie's opening (a similar interval to that for the synopsis for T:TDW that we are currently discussing relative to that movie's scheduled release):

"Paramount Pictures and Marvel Entertainment present the epic adventure, 'Thor,' which spans the Marvel Universe from present day Earth to the realm of Asgard. At the center of the story is the mighty Thor (Chris Hemsworth), a powerful but arrogant warrior whose reckless actions reignite an ancient war. Thor is cast down to Earth by his father Odin (Anthony Hopkins) and is forced to live among humans. A beautiful, young scientist, Jane Foster (Natalie Portman), has a profound effect on Thor, as she ultimately becomes his first love. It’s while here on Earth that Thor learns what it takes to be a true hero when the most dangerous villain of his world sends the darkest forces of Asgard to invade Earth."

(Reference: http://screenrant.com/official-thor-...ory-rob-47726/)

Loki is villainous, evil even, and the Destroyer was a threat to Earth. But we probably could make credible cases that Loki is not the *most dangerous* villain of either Asgard or the Nine Realms (depending on how you define "his [Thor's] world") and the Destroyer probably is not the *darkest* force of Asgard.

So we probably shouldn't put too much weight on any of the particular descriptors; at least some of them probably are there to make the movie sound more exciting.

BigThor 10-16-2012 04:02 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by American Maid (Post 24473533)
Loki is villainous, evil even, and the Destroyer was a threat to Earth. But we probably could make credible cases that Loki is not the *most dangerous* villain of either Asgard or the Nine Realms (depending on how you define "his [Thor's] world") and the Destroyer probably is not the *darkest* force of Asgard.

So we probably shouldn't put too much weight on any of the particular descriptors; at least some of them probably are there to make the movie sound more exciting.

Agreed on all counts, some people take these descriptions far too literally.

cherokeesam 10-16-2012 04:29 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo_3 (Post 24473347)
I don't get, wouldn't the synopsis reveal the villains for the movie not for setup in future movies.


You've got a point there.

jaqua99 10-16-2012 10:06 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cherokeesam (Post 24476065)
You've got a point there.

that's the only thing that is bugging me.

But if that is the case. If SAID villain is a big part of the movie, then why have Kurse? Y'know?

We are starting to learn a lot about this movie, but really know nothing. I personally think it is safe to say that Surtur will have some sort of role, but its hard to say what

jaqua99 10-16-2012 10:10 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigThor (Post 24475847)
Agreed on all counts, some people take these descriptions far too literally.

Exactly. I think it tells what's going on, while letting us know Surtur will have an influence over the plot of this film.

A villain is talked about, and given what we know of this movie, what it is based off of, what we know of the simonson run, I think this synopsis can be easily read as Malekith leads an army against the 9 realms, thor goes on an adventure to stop malekith, while Surtur pulls the strings, setting up an attack on Odin. That's what I made out of it. Read it simply. A synopsis is not going to have deep parts and subtly. It's going to be short, to the point, and going to get the reader interested in the film.

American Maid 10-16-2012 10:18 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaqua99 (Post 24479195)
A villain is talked about, and given what we know of this movie, what it is based off of, what we know of the simonson run, I think this synopsis can be easily read as Malekith leads an army against the 9 realms, thor goes on an adventure to stop malekith, while Surtur pulls the strings, setting up an attack on Odin. That's what I made out of it.

Yeah, I think that's basically what will happen in this film. With lots of big fights that (hopefully) everyone will be pleased with.

Neo_3 10-17-2012 07:54 AM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaqua99 (Post 24479147)
that's the only thing that is bugging me.

But if that is the case. If SAID villain is a big part of the movie, then why have Kurse? Y'know?

We are starting to learn a lot about this movie, but really know nothing. I personally think it is safe to say that Surtur will have some sort of role, but its hard to say what

Like in the Thor synopsis there was no mention of the Destroyer, but it played a role in the movie. Maybe Kurse could have a Destroyer type role. I really hope not I want a Hulk vs Abomination^10 battle.

jaqua99 10-17-2012 11:14 AM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo_3 (Post 24480979)
Like in the Thor synopsis there was no mention of the Destroyer, but it played a role in the movie. Maybe Kurse could have a Destroyer type role. I really hope not I want a Hulk vs Abomination^10 battle.

Me too. I hope Thor and Kurse have an epic throwdown

BigThor 10-17-2012 05:21 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Same here :up:

I want there to be lots of destruction like ground breaking slams and blows that send each other flying.

jaqua99 10-17-2012 08:48 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
omg yes.

BigThor 10-17-2012 11:40 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaqua99 (Post 24484373)
omg yes.

Slams like the one at 2:22 secs, maybe even bigger. :wow:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

jaqua99 10-18-2012 08:58 PM

Re: Surtur's Role
 
this is kurse and thor...so it has to be!! Maybe not bigger, but hopefully more brutal.

I really am anxious to see Kurse. How powerful he is. Surtur has to be set up for a sequel. he HAS to be. Having Surtur be the guy at the end, just defeats the purpous of having kurse.


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