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Thread Manager 10-19-2012 06:48 AM

Re: Superman's power level
 
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

elgaz 10-19-2012 06:48 AM

Superman's power level
 
I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts on what Superman's power level should be in this new film.

As we all know, his power levels have differed vastly over the years, in all types of media. Silver-age Superman in some comics could move a planet, yet some other versions of Superman (Superman Returns for example) had him straining to control the weight of an aeroplane. There's a vast difference there.

But of course, that's just referencing raw strength. What about his other abilities?

  • How fast can he fly? In some versions he can surpass light speed, in others it's more like the speed of sound.
  • How powerful is his heat vision and super breath?
  • Can he survive in space? In some versions he can, in others he needed a suit for deep space travel.
  • How resistant is his body to injury? I've seen him survive a nuclear explosion unscathed in one comic, only for him to be stunned by a rocket from a helicopter in another.
Personally, I'd like to see a very powerful Superman. Whilst I'm all for 'humanising' him and not making him so powerful we can't relate ............. he is Superman after all; we expect him to be like a God, so why not take it to an extreme. He is the most iconic superhero of all, and widely revered as the most powerful. He can barely feel rounds of bullets pinging off his chest, so should a rocket be that much more damaging?

We also have a director in Zack Snyder who has a great flair for visual extravagance, and IMO that goes hand in hand with showcasing amazing powers.

Smashlilman 10-19-2012 06:48 AM

Re: Superman's power level
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Malone (Post 24491889)
When superman is that powerful as the examples above you have to play him as a god and the repercussions/guilt/emotions a man-god feels.

It was done quite well in all-star superman and red son but from what i'm hearing from MOS they want to ground superman so it seems they will take a different approach.

When Superman has that kind of power you have to match his power with power. Sometimes you need a god to fight a god and its like people seem to forget that Superman is a power power guy with Power power enemies. Watching Superman battle his enemies should be like watching an Unstoppable force conflicting with an Immovable object. You want to see with one gives first. That's where the excitement comes from.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...brandt-DCP.jpg

Smallville13 10-19-2012 12:18 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
I really don't see how Supes needs to be any more powerful than say in the Fleischer animations. The only thing I'd add to that is I like him being able to fly in space.

Supes is always as strong as the situation requires it seems but putting a number on it like they seem to be doing in the new 52 is just backing yourself into a corner later.

Morrison got away with it in All-Star cause it was a limited series and he solar overdosed allowing him to reach those silver-age strengths.

I definitely think he should be exerting himself when stopping trains and catching planes and whatnot. It adds to the excitement.

DrCosmic 10-19-2012 01:08 PM

Re: Superman's power level
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by elgaz (Post 24491981)
I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts on what Superman's power level should be in this new film.

As we all know, his power levels have differed vastly over the years, in all types of media. Silver-age Superman in some comics could move a planet, yet some other versions of Superman (Superman Returns for example) had him straining to control the weight of an aeroplane. There's a vast difference there.

But of course, that's just referencing raw strength. What about his other abilities?

  • How fast can he fly? In some versions he can surpass light speed, in others it's more like the speed of sound.
  • How powerful is his heat vision and super breath?
  • Can he survive in space? In some versions he can, in others he needed a suit for deep space travel.
  • How resistant is his body to injury? I've seen him survive a nuclear explosion unscathed in one comic, only for him to be stunned by a rocket from a helicopter in another.
Personally, I'd like to see a very powerful Superman. Whilst I'm all for 'humanising' him and not making him so powerful we can't relate ............. he is Superman after all; we expect him to be like a God, so why not take it to an extreme. He is the most iconic superhero of all, and widely revered as the most powerful. He can barely feel rounds of bullets pinging off his chest, so should a rocket be that much more damaging?

We also have a director in Zack Snyder who has a great flair for visual extravagance, and IMO that goes hand in hand with showcasing amazing powers.

The reason to not take it to extremes is to win over people to whom "He is Superman" doesn't mean anything, or doesn't mean anything good. That's a lot of people. So keeping it 'in the pocket' as far as his power levels allows you to tell a story that people who don't already like Superman can enjoy. ie Snyder's stories about invincible characters don't go over well, no matter how much visual flair he gives to Sucker Punch and Watchmen.

To answer your points:
*He should be able to fly and multi-mach, keeping pace with the fastest jets, but not so fast that his speed can't be visualized on a screen but has to be reported in dialogue or narration or whatever.

*His heat vision should be a super laser, pretty much able to cut through anything. His cold breath should be similar, having a liquid nitrogen like effect.

*He should be able to survive in space, but still need to breathe, so it's like swimming, basically. He can hold his breath for several minutes at a time.

*He should be vulnerable enough that the American Military machine could conceivably take him down, either with a Nuke, or waves of tactical strikes with high powered missiles and/or experimental tech.

The funny thing is, all the live action incarnations have gotten it right. Only the cartoons put him too low and the old comics put him too high. But if you feel like "He is Superman after all" can make a billion dollars, can get people excited, by all means, make him a god.

Venomfan 10-19-2012 03:00 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
superman returns power level was perfect. if you make him like TAS it will get criticized. have you ever watched an episode with someone who would make up the general audience? they always comment on how hes so weak. the general audience expects him to be the strongest super hero

metaphysician 10-20-2012 11:05 AM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Honestly, he wasn't *that* weak in Superman TAS.

Anyway, I'd say the key benchmarks are:

1. His durability should not be so high that you need his vulnerabilities to conceivably threaten him, but not so low that ordinary military hardware could easily take him out. The former because its a plot problem if he's only ever challengeable by deus ex machine, the latter because it just looks bad if Superman can be knocked to the ground by a shoulder launched missile.

2. His superspeed should probably be excised from the powerset, beyond the most trivial level. Oh, not his ability to fly really fast, no, but his ability to take complicated actions at high speed. It just creates too many fridge logic problems.

Zionite1 10-20-2012 03:25 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Honestly for all the *****ing I think Byrne got the power levels right.I do agree that Superman shld loose Superspeed but it cld cause so much fan*****ng.Being Faster than a speeding bullet is a classic supes power

ThePowerCosmic 10-20-2012 04:36 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zionite1 (Post 24499181)
Honestly for all the *****ing I think Byrne got the power levels right.I do agree that Superman shld loose Superspeed but it cld cause so much fan*****ng.Being Faster than a speeding bullet is a classic supes power

I think he should be faster than a speeding bullet in flight. Just not when he's running. That's the Flash's thing.

gkokujin 10-20-2012 07:41 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
that makes no sense. He can move/fly faster than a speeding bullet, but can't run as fast?

gkokujin 10-20-2012 07:47 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallville13 (Post 24493931)
I really don't see how Supes needs to be any more powerful than say in the Fleischer animations. The only thing I'd add to that is I like him being able to fly in space.

Supes is always as strong as the situation requires it seems but putting a number on it like they seem to be doing in the new 52 is just backing yourself into a corner later.

Morrison got away with it in All-Star cause it was a limited series and he solar overdosed allowing him to reach those silver-age strengths.

I definitely think he should be exerting himself when stopping trains and catching planes and whatnot. It adds to the excitement.

I can agree with this, as much as I don't want to.
If this is "realistic/grounded" take, he shouldn't be able to escape the atmosphere, but after an extended exposure (by the second or third film, or JL) he should be able to.

My only issue is in STAS he was beat up by EVERYTHING. Its why I didn't get into the show for years, because he was always getting beat up by anyone he faced.

I don't want that. I also don't want him punching lasers either.

dnno1 10-20-2012 08:50 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallville13 (Post 24493931)
I really don't see how Supes needs to be any more powerful than say in the Fleischer animations. The only thing I'd add to that is I like him being able to fly in space.

Supes is always as strong as the situation requires it seems but putting a number on it like they seem to be doing in the new 52 is just backing yourself into a corner later.

Morrison got away with it in All-Star cause it was a limited series and he solar overdosed allowing him to reach those silver-age strengths.

I definitely think he should be exerting himself when stopping trains and catching planes and whatnot. It adds to the excitement.

This coming from a guy who uses Smallvile as his member name. That series had a superman that did feats that were greater than those of the Fleisher tunes. Keep in mind that the Fleicher Superman was the character from the Golden Age who bascally started flying because leaping around was "silly looking" according to them.

dnno1 10-20-2012 08:52 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic (Post 24499419)
I think he should be faster than a speeding bullet in flight. Just not when he's running. That's the Flash's thing.

Superman is faster than a speeding bullet (running and flying). He's just not faster than the Flash.

Lead Cenobite 10-20-2012 10:20 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
The Fleischer Superman was inconsistent too. Some cartoons he looked like he was flying and in others it looked like jumping. In the first cartoon (where he stops a building from tipping over and punches a laser) it's obviously flying, but in the one with the comet he's hopping around like a cartoon flea and every time he jumps up to hit the comet, he gets knocked all the way back to the ground.

ThePowerCosmic 10-20-2012 10:22 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gkokujin (Post 24500031)
that makes no sense. He can move/fly faster than a speeding bullet, but can't run as fast?

How does it make no sense? He's not using his legs to fly. I never said I wanted him to move fast, either.

nogap87 10-21-2012 04:03 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Timm's Superman?

So for most of the trilogy Superman gets beat by everyone and their grandma but during the last fight in the third movie he makes some bull**** speech about how hard it is to contain his power and one-shots the villain.

No thanks.

Lead Cenobite 10-21-2012 07:51 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nogap87 (Post 24504017)
Timm's Superman?

So for most of the trilogy Superman gets beat by everyone and their grandma but during the last fight in the third movie he makes some bull**** speech about how hard it is to contain his power and one-shots the villain.

No thanks.

And then the villain turns around and paralyses him with an "agony matrix" and Lex comes to the rescue. No thanks to that as well. :oldrazz:

nogap87 10-21-2012 09:08 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Cenobite (Post 24504877)
And then the villain turns around and paralyses him with an "agony matrix" and Lex comes to the rescue. No thanks to that as well. :oldrazz:

Not gonna lie, my nerd rage reached its zenith when Batman gave all the villains a five minute head start.

I hate the JLU finale. :csad:

Quasimod0 10-21-2012 09:40 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Don't think superman should be able to lift the earth or anything like that. I liked his strength level in sperman returns actually

dnno1 10-21-2012 10:19 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Quasimod0 (Post 24505441)
Don't think superman should be able to lift the earth or anything like that. I liked his strength level in sperman returns actually

He raised a landmass/continent laced with kryptonite into space and tossed it out of the solar system in that film. That's pretty much in the same class as planet lifting (considering the K-factor).

The Shield 10-21-2012 10:19 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Quasimod0 (Post 24505441)
Don't think superman should be able to lift the earth or anything like that. I liked his strength level in sperman returns actually

Which one? The Superman suffering from kryptonite poisoning that can lift continents? Or the perfectly healthy one that struggles to land a jet liner? (this was actually mentioned earlier but I'm curious)

nocomics 10-21-2012 11:02 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Shield (Post 24505639)
Which one? The Superman suffering from kryptonite poisoning that can lift continents? Or the perfectly healthy one that struggles to land a jet liner? (this was actually mentioned earlier but I'm curious)

I didn't think he struggled to land that jet liner, because of the weight it was more trying not to crush the darn thing when slowing it down.
I can see the SR level of strength being fine( I enjoyed the display of power by lifting the large landmass and struggling to do so), though it doesn't mean they have to show it. Far as 'vulnerability' I don't think I'd have a problem with the military doing some damage(stun, slowing him down), but not seriously hurt.
Flying fast yes, flying so he can change the rotation of the Earth; NO!!! Heat Vision, and Cold Breath, yes please long as used in right situation and not used just to show off CGI.
It doesn't matter what they do really some ppl just won't be happy with it no matter what.

dnno1 10-21-2012 11:41 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nocomics (Post 24505879)
I didn't think he struggled to land that jet liner, because of the weight it was more trying not to crush the darn thing when slowing it down.
I can see the SR level of strength being fine( I enjoyed the display of power by lifting the large landmass and struggling to do so), though it doesn't mean they have to show it. Far as 'vulnerability' I don't think I'd have a problem with the military doing some damage(stun, slowing him down), but not seriously hurt.
Flying fast yes, flying so he can change the rotation of the Earth; NO!!! Heat Vision, and Cold Breath, yes please long as used in right situation and not used just to show off CGI.
It doesn't matter what they do really some ppl just won't be happy with it no matter what.

He only struggled with the landmass because it was laced with kryptonite. Even with that, he was able to toss it out of the solar system. Keep in mind that Bryan Singer's Superman = Richard Donner's Superman, which could turn back time and move the moon.

dnno1 10-21-2012 11:54 PM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
I just hope they make Superman stronger than this guy:

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot..._9254661_n.jpg

Venomfan 10-22-2012 06:49 AM

Re: Superman's power level - Part 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by metaphysician (Post 24498217)
Honestly, he wasn't *that* weak in Superman TAS.

i dunno i just watched one where he struggled to lift a bus


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