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-   -   Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=398803)

hegemony 10-19-2012 05:44 PM

Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Even though X-men films feature a team with tons of characters they never really felt as epic or huge as TDK(R) or The Avengers. I just remember sitting through Avengers thinking this is what X-men should be like.

Do you think Fox can keep the somewhat darker tone but make things more outlandish? I want scenes of Colossus throwing Wolverine into a Sentinel and cutting it in half, Cyclops leveling a building with optic blasts, stuff like that.

Angamb 10-19-2012 06:28 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
I think we'll get that big scale movie this time.

All the sequels dont need to be BIG scale everytime. At the same Dark knigh and DKR felt epic but had intimate momments too, so I guess X-men movie could go that route too. Its more about tone and how serious the main issue is than about big action and sets.

First Class had an important threat, but since the mutants werent known at all, it lacked that big scale feel. And the whole country isnt aware of what's happening, so that is a key point, I think.

In any case, Im pretty sure most fans will be pretty pleased with Days of future. They have all the ingredients to make an amazing movie. Drama, sci-fi, historical/political elements, and epic action.

Lord 10-19-2012 06:38 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
To tell the truth Avengers didn't seem to have such a big scale, most of the film spent time on the same location and the city battle felt more like the heroes playground than the situation of life and death it was supposed to be.

Thundercrack85 10-19-2012 06:43 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
I still didn't really understand the villain's plan in Avengers. Was he going to take over the world with a relatively small army of aliens on flying chariots, by conquering one city at a time?

And then to top it all off, they channeled the ending of the Phantom Menace.

I'm aware I'm in the minority, believing that the Avengers wasn't a particularly well written movie (at least in terms of plot).

marvelrobbins 10-19-2012 06:53 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
They weren't concernced with getting a good villain's plan In The Avengers.

Lord 10-19-2012 06:55 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 (Post 24495387)
I still didn't really understand the villain's plan in Avengers. Was he going to take over the world with a relatively small army of aliens on flying chariots, by conquering one city at a time?

And then to top it all off, they channeled the ending of the Phantom Menace.

I'm aware I'm in the minority, believing that the Avengers wasn't a particularly well written movie (at least in terms of plot).

It was more about the characters really, i don't think the city part was as good as people give it credit for, the stakes didn't seem that high, i think the Transformers 3 city battle was better, but because it's a michael bay transformers film it doesn't get any positive mention of that.

Thundercrack85 10-19-2012 07:02 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins (Post 24495447)
They weren't concernced with getting a good villain's plan In The Avengers.

It's funny because in X-Men, Magneto actually had a pretty good plan. They actually cut a scene where someone gives a good metaphor.

Long story short, they mention how Christianity only became accepted when the Roman Emperor converted. Magneto's plan was to "convert" humanity's leaders.

Why they cut that scene is anyone's guess.

Lord 10-19-2012 07:05 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 (Post 24495493)
It's funny because in X-Men, Magneto actually had a pretty good plan. They actually cut a scene where someone gives a good metaphor.

Long story short, they mention how Christianity only became accepted when the Roman Emperor converted. Magneto's plan was to "convert" humanity's leaders.

Why they cut that scene is anyone's guess.

Really? That seems like a great metaphor, it's a shame such a scene was deleted.

Thundercrack85 10-19-2012 07:05 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord (Post 24495457)
It was more about the characters really, i don't think the city part was as good as people give it credit for, the stakes didn't seem that high, i think the Transformers 3 city battle was better, but because it's a michael bay transformers film it doesn't get any positive mention of that.

Nope. Avengers did little for me. There was some hilarious dialogue and character interaction though. But as far as story... all over the place.

Thundercrack85 10-19-2012 07:09 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord (Post 24495503)
Really? That seems like a great metaphor, it's a shame such a scene was deleted.

It used to be up on youtube.

Second movie had a decent plot too. Hell even the third one wasn't inherently bad. The cure concept that is. The Phoenix concept, not so much.

marvelrobbins 10-19-2012 07:33 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
The novelation of first film has the metaphor In it.Plus In comcis there Is percendent
for magneto causing mutations.At end of X-Men first run In 1970 there Is mutates In savage land he causes.

The cure In last stand would have worked better If government was bhind the cure.It would have made using cure on Mystique and soldiers using It work better.

Mrs Vimes 10-19-2012 07:45 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 (Post 24495493)
It's funny because in X-Men, Magneto actually had a pretty good plan. They actually cut a scene where someone gives a good metaphor.

Long story short, they mention how Christianity only became accepted when the Roman Emperor converted. Magneto's plan was to "convert" humanity's leaders.

Actually, I thought that Magneto's plan made no sense at all and the metaphor only highlights it. Most of the humanity's leaders are elected for a short term only, unlike the Roman Emperors, and are not absolute rulers. Might work for countries with more despotic regimes, but the main world powers, I doubt it. And how would the populations of their countries have liked to have mutants as a head of state and how long would they have lasted in power? And even if they kept their mutanthood a secret, why automatically assume that they'll be working for the benefit of the mutants, instead of, say, just keeping quiet about it and carrying on as normal?

Thundercrack85 10-19-2012 08:02 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
The leaders are essentially the ruling class. Making them mutants, would go a long way for mutant rights. If all popular leaders (and dictators) become mutants, things would never be the same.

Also given how obvious some mutations are (just look at Beast)... and the fact that people for miles could see Magneto's machine in action, they really couldn't hide it.

The device was going to mutate everyone in New York City as well.

What I did find odd is that Magneto went from that idea, to just wanting to kill all of humanity outright in the sequel. Maybe that stint in a human prison just made him more anti-human.

Mrs Vimes 10-19-2012 08:11 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 (Post 24495809)
The leaders are essentially the ruling class.

Not really, not in the same way as the old-time hereditary aristocrats, and they have to be elected for the office. Unless Magneto turned every single eligible person all over the world into a mutant I don't see it having much impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 (Post 24495809)
If all popular leaders (and dictators) become mutants, things would never be the same.

Yes but how long would the popular leaders remain popular once they were mutants?

Thundercrack85 10-19-2012 08:13 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
It still goes a very long way, to have every world leader suddenly become pro-mutant. As well as all of New York City (though that's just by proxy).

747 10-20-2012 07:39 AM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Part of why I love X-Men so much is the fact that it can work so fantastic both as a more low-key and personal story and as a big and epic one. So X-Men doesn't need to be big to be great. That's why X-Men story-wise a God Loves, Man Kills works just as great as a Dark Phoenix Saga.

The thing about the original DOFP story though, is that it's more personal than epic in many ways, even in the future scenes, you get to follow these mutants sneak around, not much large scale battle. Same with the current timeline, stopping the assassination isn't very big scale.

Not saying the movie can't go that way though, cause the story has potential for epicness.

merbass 10-21-2012 05:33 AM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Magneto could use Mystique. She's the weapon.

I do not want the scale of Avengers when the movie is not that good, plot wise.

I want something like X2 or XFC, where we care about the characters and the plot is good.

BMM 10-21-2012 06:49 AM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Why not both? Granted, I don't expect a 30 minute battle with sentinels in a post-apocalyptic New York, but I think they can go bigger than First Class and X2.

Project862006 10-21-2012 07:45 AM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
i know people hate the film but x3 was pretty big in scale

Duran Man 10-21-2012 11:12 AM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
It wasn't long enough though.

Angamb 10-21-2012 11:23 AM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
the BIG difference between the Batman franchise and Avengers with X-men is that both Batman and Avengers are known by the whole city/country. both the goverment, police and citizens know about them

The X-men are outsiders. And this has an impact on the scale of the movie someway. There is always a big villain in the movies, but the main threat of each sequel was only known by the x-men themself and the goverment. not by the whole country.

We can always have big sets and big action sequences, but if they dont show how the whole city or country is feeling about what's happening, the villain or his threat, the scale cant be the same as the Batman franchise, for example.

I could explain it a bit more, but Im spanish so its a bit hard for me, but I think most of you will understand my point.

def28 10-21-2012 12:09 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
I actually wished they focused on outsides opinion of the X Men more after some of the larger events happen. Every cop and news channel should know about them especially after X3. But given they have been around from the 60s the population would for sure be aware of the team. Not like they were always full covert.

The scale for this film should be quite larger. Giant robots eradicating mutant kind is just as epic as an Alien invasion.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Project862006 (Post 24501683)
i know people hate the film but x3 was pretty big in scale

Yeah the climax is up there with most other comic films. If not grander on some levels. The taking of the bridge shows alot of the a city population which you dont see too much in the X Men films. Probably never took it to the inside of the city cause of budget reasons.

Hawkingbird 10-21-2012 12:45 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Project862006 (Post 24501683)
i know people hate the film but x3 was pretty big in scale

Too messy and poorly written and directed :o ironically by Joss Whedon

def28 10-21-2012 12:53 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord (Post 24495457)
I i think the Transformers 3 city battle was better, but because it's a michael bay transformers film it doesn't get any positive mention of that.

Nah thats not true, Bay has one of the best action set pieces out there in Transformers 3. I dont think anyone can deny how awesome some of the action is in those films. But Besides the drill bot scene , the city fight is a mess. Knocking out Optimus Prime every 10 min in a ridiculous way only to bring him back last min was sloppy and poorly done. Theres zero focus on the other bots or where they are, and then all of a sudden they are captured. They copped out just for shots to focus on Shia and crew running. There are def some great visuals and explosions though.

Avengers focused on what it should have for its climax. Transformers 3 didnt, and as a huge fan of the Transformers franchise I found it very angering. Transformers 1 had it down better as a whole on how to do a city battle imo.

Lord 10-21-2012 01:51 PM

Re: Should Fox increase the scale of the franchise?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird (Post 24502545)
Too messy and poorly written and directed :o ironically by Joss Whedon

Joss Whedon only wrote some of the early drafts for X-Men 1, and most of his story was completelly changed, he had nothing to do with X-Men 3 except wrytting the "gifted" storyline that served as an inspiration for the cure in the film


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