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-   -   Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=400413)

Doc Ock 10-31-2012 12:48 AM

Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
Recently I discovered there are more Star Wars fans out there who don't seem to care for ROTJ than I though. I'm curious at how many people love the film like I do. Some of the best moments of the trilogy are in this film!

There was even a time when I considered it my favorite Star Wars film.

NewYorkSpider 10-31-2012 01:00 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
My favorite SW film is still A New Hope, but this ranks right up there. I'm not a huge fan of the prequels.

I love the scene at the end with Vader and Luke. Very emotional considering what both have been through.

Octoberist 10-31-2012 02:15 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
I think Return of the Jedi is better liked now than it was back in the day due to the prequels. That being said, it had a lot of good elements..like Luke's scenes with the Emperor and Darth.

The Jabba scenes are great, though there are two faults:

1.) The way Boba died.
2.) Maybe I missed it, but how many friggin' people/aliens had to die during the barge scenes? When the barge exploded, did it kill poor Max Rebo too?

Also, it has 'It's a trap' so it has relevancy in the series.

That being said, I think the second act had arbitrary plot beats, like Yoda dying or Obi's 'certain point of view'. They both seem like the writers wanted to move on fast from these loose ends from the previous movies. Also, Han easily forgave Lando. Infact there wasn't a single scene where Han gives Lando a hard time for betraying him. What we knew about Lando and his real allegiance, Han had no clue because he was frozen the entire time!

The screenplay seemed really sloppy despite some really effective scenes throughout.

Gianakin_ 10-31-2012 02:18 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
It's very uneven. I mean, it's SW so I love it, but once they get to Endor the movie's schizophrenic. The David/Goliath thing Lucas tried to do via Ewoks was a complete failure to me, but everything else (aka Sidious/Vader/Luke) is amazing. The 1st act is also very entertaining and the Yoda/Obi Wan scenes are magical.

Human Torch 10-31-2012 02:19 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
What we knew about Lando and his real allegiance, Han had no clue because he was frozen the entire time!

I think the implication was that Chewie filled Han in on the details whille they were in the cell together.That's why Luke says "Stay close to chewie and lando" and Han doesn't go "Wait-Lando's here?!?"

Gianakin_ 10-31-2012 02:20 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Octoberist (Post 24556285)
1.) The way Boba died.
2.) Maybe I missed it, but how many friggin' people/aliens had to die during the barge scenes? When the barge exploded, did it kill poor Max Rebo too?

Agreed on 1, not sure I know what you mean by 2.

Quote:

That being said, I think the second act had arbitrary plot beats, like Yoda dying or Obi's 'certain point of view'. They both seem like the writers wanted to move on fast from these loose ends from the previous movies. Also, Han easily forgave Lando. Infact there wasn't a single scene where Han gives Lando a hard time for betraying him. What we knew about Lando and his real allegiance, Han had no clue because he was frozen the entire time!

The screenplay seemed really sloppy despite some really effective scenes throughout.
I mostly agree. Lando was too happy-go-lucky, which kinda kills the character for me. Han was also not exactly needed other than Ford's star power and the need for someone to get it on with Leia. Ford was right, Lucas shoulda killed Solo, or shoulda given him something infinitely more interesting to do.

Human Torch 10-31-2012 02:21 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
Return of the Jedi-Not only my favorite Star Wars film,but favorite film all time!

Gianakin_ 10-31-2012 02:21 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Human Torch (Post 24556309)
What we knew about Lando and his real allegiance, Han had no clue because he was frozen the entire time!

I think the implication was that Chewie filled Han in on the details whille they were in the cell together.That's why Luke says "Stay close to chewie and lando" and Han doesn't go "Wait-Lando's here?!?"

Still, even with all the info, wouldn't hurt for Han to be more cautious. Let alone giving him the damn Falcon.

Octoberist 10-31-2012 02:25 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
So offscreen, Chewie 'probably' filled in Han with some info, including Lando's allegiance? Sure..but..

If it was not shown or even alluded to, it didn't happen. It's possible, but knowing Han, you probably would have punched Lando anyway even after what Chewie told him. There wasn't a friggin' moment where Han gives Lando crap, and it just doesn't make sense for these two characters. Han thought Lando betrayed him completely; there should have been a scene to tie up the loose end there. It's just sloppy storytelling.

Octoberist 10-31-2012 02:30 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gianakin_ (Post 24556319)
Still, even with all the info, wouldn't hurt for Han to be more cautious. Let alone giving him the damn Falcon.

Exactly. There was no consequences after what happened. It's as if everything went back to normal.

Human Torch 10-31-2012 02:35 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
Han and Lando were friends before and Lando was in a tough spot.He saves Leia & Chewie,helps to save Han himself-Luke,Leia & Chewie obviously trust him.I don't see why Han would have reason to distrust/hate Lando at that point.*shrug*

At least this is a different objection than the typical "Ewoks,man,Ewoks!":woot:

Gianakin_ 10-31-2012 02:38 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Octoberist (Post 24556337)
So offscreen, Chewie 'probably' filled in Han with some info, including Lando's allegiance? Sure..but..

If it was not shown or even alluded to, it didn't happen. It's possible, but knowing Han, you probably would have punched Lando anyway even after what Chewie told him. There wasn't a friggin' moment where Han gives Lando crap, and it just doesn't make sense for these two characters. Han thought Lando betrayed him completely; there should have been a scene to tie up the loose end there. It's just sloppy storytelling.

Yeah, too much bromance when they meet at the fleet. I don't agree with the "if it's not on-screen, it didn't happen", 'cause that part is pretty sensible and obvious (the filling in part, that is). Still, sloppy.

Octoberist 10-31-2012 02:39 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
There's no repercussions, that's what I'm saying. Not one little scene or even a friggin' line that deals with it. No matter how close friends are, when crap like that goes down, a guy like Han wants answers from Lando himself, not just "trust him" because he's there. Maybe like on the floating barge, Han can whisper to Chewie how he still doesn't trust Lando, and Chewie being defensive about it.

What I'm saying is..it would've been nice to see some sort of line of dialog to close that arc from Empire. Even if Han teased Lando right before he lends him the Falcon at that Rebel base/ship. A throwaway line. Something would suffice. We can't just assume it.

Gianakin_ 10-31-2012 02:39 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Human Torch (Post 24556385)
Han and Lando were friends before and Lando was in a tough spot.He saves Leia & Chewie,helps to save Han himself-Luke,Leia & Chewie obviously trust him.I don't see why Han would have reason to distrust/hate Lando at that point.*shrug*

They weren't exactly *friends*, though. The way Han talks about him before they meet in ESB and the EU stuff (if you accept it, of course) alludes to them being... "occasional colleagues".

Brain Damage 10-31-2012 06:47 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gianakin_ (Post 24556305)
It's very uneven. I mean, it's SW so I love it, but once they get to Endor the movie's schizophrenic. The David/Goliath thing Lucas tried to do via Ewoks was a complete failure to me, but everything else (aka Sidious/Vader/Luke) is amazing. The 1st act is also very entertaining and the Yoda/Obi Wan scenes are magical.

I agree with this description. Frankly, a lot of it is also shot quite poorly and thus a lot of the action sequences aren't as exciting (though that speeder bike chase is still fantastic), and a lot of the more talky-talky bits aren't as interesting.

The Ewoks themselves are alright, unnecessary sure, and clearly there to sell toys, but they're not as horrible as some make them out to be - they're certainly no Gungans.

I also find the first half of the film to be quite boring, personally. There are some definite stellar moments in there, but for the most part, I find the pacing to be way too slow (don't even get me started on Jabba's house band). In fact, most of the film feels like its all set up for the conclusion. But thankfully that conclusion is stunning.

The space battle is great, though honestly the least memorable of the trilogy for me (I'm also not a big fan of the concept of a new Death Star), the Endor stuff definitely picks up towards the end. But ultimately, the Vader/Luke/Emperor stuff is what seals the deal for me. It's so well done that it makes me forgive most of the film's flaws and makes me love it.

I find this to be easily the worst of the three. It's the most flawed, the worst paced and often the most boring. But some of Star Wars's greatest moments are in there, that's for sure. And it provides an extremely satisfying conclusion to the saga, so for that, it will always stay an awesome film in my book.

Gianakin_ 10-31-2012 06:57 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
Basically, I like anything with Luke in and the starfight in the end (extremely well done for the 80s, and even now).

flash13 10-31-2012 09:14 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
ROTJ is actually my favorite Star Wars movie, and even my favorite movie of all time. The Vader/Luke scenes are awesome and I always loved the Battle of Endor.

redhawk23 10-31-2012 01:18 PM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
The Luke/Vader/Palpatine scenes are pretty much the best part of the Saga for me.

Fives 10-31-2012 04:18 PM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
1997 Special Edition
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/ima...nofthejedi.jpg

It stared out as Revenge of The Jedi
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/ima...edi_poster.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/ima...Poster1983.jpg

Lead Cenobite 10-31-2012 04:52 PM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
The Ewoks never bothered me. I feel that they work in the same way as Yoda. It's kinda silly and childish, but I don't think it ever really betrays the tone of these movies.

Octoberist 10-31-2012 09:25 PM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
I liked wicket.

Jochimus 10-31-2012 10:19 PM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
I've never had Ewok Hate either TBH - sure, their purpose as merchandise generators is pretty apparent and always has been, but I was never particularly troubled by that even when they REALLY became the thrust of the franchise's marketing going into the mid-'80s trying to keep it on store shelves Post-OT (b'sides, I'd already moved on to the Transformers by that point). In fact, considering how arrogant and pompous the Empire is portrayed up to that point, when their command officers put their noses up at each other and the perfectly-modulated way the phrase "You Rebel scum!" rolls off their lips with expert precision, I think it's just glorious that they got owned by a bunch of teddy bears with sharp pointy sticks. :woot:

Oh, and Ep. VI also gets points not only for finally showing us Jabba, but for Luke having become a total bad^$$ in black. I just like the comparison as it replays in my head...

Ep. IV Luke: "But I was going into Tosche Station to pick up some power converters!"
Ep. VI Luke: "You're gravely mistaken. Soon I'll be dead. And YOU with me."

Ep. VI gets a bum rap IMO. The only really weak point in it I can find is the whole "second Death Star" thing, but even that's not enough to deter my enjoyment of it.

Gianakin_ 11-01-2012 02:32 AM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
It gets a bum rap when compared to ANH and ESB (and, when it comes to me, to the PT as well). On its own it still blows most fantasy/sci-fi flicks out of the water.

The concept behind the Ewoks was amazing. Technology-heavy Empire vs. primitive but determined creatures? Yes, please. But it's one thing for the latter to be Wookiees, as originally planned, a whole another for them to be Cajoline bears. It's just not believable. And the forest battle has aged terribly. It's poorly directed and choreographed, removing any shred of believabilty that the finest legion of the Empire will be defeated by... them.

Doc Ock 11-01-2012 03:14 PM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gianakin_ (Post 24563429)
It gets a bum rap when compared to ANH and ESB. On its own it still blows most fantasy/sci-fi flicks out of the water.

All this is very true, I do think ROTJ is the weakest of the OT but I do think it has the best moment of the saga, the whole Luke/Vader/Emperor thing.

Victarion 11-01-2012 06:28 PM

Re: Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread
 
I wish they had made the Ewoks more little badger/goblin things. Cute one minute, absolutely feral in combat. The Rancor was and still is impressive for its time. :cool:

Do you suppose Disney will reinsert Oola's nipslip if they rerelease the OT? You know Disney...


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