Suffice to say, my theory on the Bourne woods fighting scenes is that there is are two kingdoms fighting (per what the studio put out about it) and that it is probably Nornheim (part of Asgard but Karnilla's kingdom), being attacked by either Vanaheim or an army from Niflheim (army of dishonored dead sent by Hela), and then Thor and the Asgardians come in and have to break it up/stop it. Everything is going crazy after the destruction of the bifrost, and Odin is very possibly being seen as weak right now, and so everybody else is taking advantage of that.

In regards to this army in the Bourne woods fighting specifically, someone recently posted this article which has some similar elements to what I am now thinking (not all but some)

http://celluloidandcigaretteburns.bl...of-surtur.html

In particular check out the picture of Hela's army. The guys in the Bourne woods do not look dead like this but the helmets and dress look similar, also at least some warriors have black around their eyes that I've seen that make me wonder about them looking more dead with some CGI later. And many look like demons or trolls, and different people, which according to info I've read about Nornheim, there are all sorts of different beings living in Nornheim. This would explain such a vast array of characters in the pictures (none of which appear to be Dark Elves). Anyway, I dont want to reiterate every point that was in the Kurse thread, but it seems like it is very likely this scenario here that this is Nornheim vs Vanaheim or vs Niflheim and then Thor and the Asgardian soldiers step in.

The stuff the above article has speculation about Hela being Loki's mother, I find that to be very plausible. They do sometimes give the characters a different background and change a few aspects to go with the MCU, and make it more accessible and less confusing to the general audience. and it would be easier to explain Hela (if they explain her at all) as being Loki's mother than his daughter at this point, since Hela seems sort of likely to be the Alice Krige role, and Alice definitely looks older than Loki. Hela seems like the kind of girl who might hook up with Laufey. :whatever: LOL On top of that if the Frigga dying thing is true then that is the perfect time to bring in Loki's birth mother, and have her try to control him or get him on her side to take over Asgard. Another point, as some of you know I've often wondered about stuff like Loki's hair (when the Frost giants are bald), and why his bone structure doesn't look like the other frost giants. They really just turned him blue with red eyes in Thor 1, and that crown design on his forehead doesn't look like the Frost giants so much either. Even as a baby, or when he changes completely over, he just doesn't quite look full frost giant, and I think that's on purpose. Plus Odin completely left out anything about his mother (probably figured the revelation about Laufey was enough of a shock for him right then). So as some of you know I believe in this MCU incarnation Loki will only be half frost giant for a variety of reasons that I've already posted elsewhere (mostly in the Loki thread). Plus that gives Odin yet another reason to take in Loki as a baby and try to raise him to be a good man, if he is the product of not only Laufey but Hela as well. So with that in mind, it makes perfect sense to bring in Hela as Loki's mother, and have her try to get him on her side to help her take over Asgard. (of course, that doesn't mean he wont double cross her like he did Laufey, tricky sonofagun that he is. ;) ) and this would go along with an earlier idea I had about the fights filmed in Iceland where Loki and Thor were supposed to be on different sides. In this case Loki could be leading an army of "dishonored dead" for Hela. and again, that doesnt mean he's going to stay on that side, I continue to think he will be crossing and double crossing. Or the other theory I had about that fight is that people were mistakenly assuming that Thor and Loki are on different sides in this fight, when they are on the same side in fact, vs Hela's army. Also in regards to that army, I could be wrong but I dont recall anything coming out about what the opposing army looked like in Iceland, and I would think if it were the elves something would have come out describing them. So I think the armies fighting there might look all like the Bourne woods guys, and possibly meant to be a war taking place on Niflheim since the landscape described for that scene would seem to make perfect sense for that realm.

So the stuff about Hela's army there, yes. I am thinking that more and more, still not so sure about Surtur showing up yet, but a possibility. But I'm still thinking he should wait for Thor 3, there is enough going on here. With Hela's army, Malekith and Kurse, plus definitely Jane Thor and Loki stuff to deal with, and probably at least some Odin and Frigga stuff as well, I mean, this movie is jam packed already. It won't be 3 hours, that's for sure.

The Fandral rumor that he has there, that's the first I'd heard of that. certainly possible A LOT of characters will die. :csad: The films alternate name is "Thursday Mourning" after all... :csad:

Quote:
Currently running away from a large spaceship as it crash lands into a palace I'm guarding (as you do!). Can't say anymore than that. Shhhh.

The original post is at: http://forums.superherohype.com/show...e#post24352429
(about 4 posts down)

In comics (and I think in mythology too) Hela's apparently constructs a ship with plans to use it to conquer Asgard and the 9 realms.

FMI: http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/h/hela.htm

Hela has sought for ages to bring more Asgardian souls under her control, and especially longs to possess the souls of Odin and his son Thor. In recent years, when Odin's attention had strayed from the rule of Valhalla, Hela tried to annex that realm to her own, hoping to consolidate her power over all of Asgard's dead. Eventually Odin grew aware of her ambitions and opposed them. Hela finally withdrew to her own realms, and Odin reestablished his control over Valhalla. Asgard continues to rule Valhalla to this day. For untold ages Hela had directed the construction of a gigantic ship, Naflgar, said to be made of the fingernails of the dead. Hela planned that when Naflgar was finished, she would send an army of the dead to Asgard in it to destroy the gods.

Oh boy Elizah, where to start, where to start..

Alright. First of all, I am not entirely sure I agree with multiple characters dying. I don't think we will see any of the warrior's three die. I hope not. As for the matter regarding the goofy looking army, so, you think that due to the bifrost being destroyed, that there is a battle going on between realms? I assume one thing that leads you in that direction is the pictures of the troll looking creatures, dead creatures, and creatures wearing helmets? Certainly a possibility. Especially if we are going to see the 9 realms. I can honestly say, I don't really have an opinion on who the army/armies are. But you believe that these two are fighting, and thor and the asgardians intervene, correct?

While that is a possiiblity, I am not entirely sure I am onboard with that, yet. It seems like there is a lot going on. Having Karnilla in there MAY be a bit much.

So lets take a look at the 3 most logical theories right now.

1. Karnilla's kingdom is fighting Vanaheim or Niflheim. This being the difference in the two armies. One of the armies she is fighting being Hela and her undead army. Which IS plausible

2. It is Hela's army entirely, battling Thor and whoever

3. It is an army of people from the universe formed by Thanos to infiltrate the 9 realms for Loki and Asgard. A bit of contradiction here. Thanos does have other motives, so I don't think him taking the time to build an army is something he would do. If he appears in this movie, which I am not doubting, I think it will most likely be just him, and The Other.

as for the whole Loki Frost giant thing, I personally like to assume it is Odin's magic that physically made him Asgardian.

As for Surtur. I prefer Thor 3 as well. But there is no doubt, his presence WILL be felt through out this movie. and more than likely, ultimately, the major plot of this movie will be because of Surtur.

Don't forget the synopsis, "a shadowy enemy that predates the universe itself" and "an enemy that not even Odin and Asgard can withstand.....A shadowy enemy...AN enemy. In the comics, Surtur is one of the oldest beings in the universe, although he doesn't predate it, he is as old as it. That certainly can be altered. And an enemy that not even odin and asgard can withstand. When I think of a single enemy capable of taking on Odin and Asgard, story wise, it is Surtur. Given the fact that this SOUNDS like Surtur, and the fact that the exact arc this movie is based on ends with Surtur, I think it is safe to say that Surtur WILL have a presence in the movie. Now whether he appears at the end of the movie, or an after credit scene to set up a Surtur saga for Thor 3, I don't know, but I would bet my but that Surtur's presence will be felt

Hela

Hela is working for Surtur? Or they are working together? IF anyone is going to be connected to him, I can totally see it being her. Her being the character that ties it ALL together

and again if they are making some alterations to her character, perhaps partially to try to surprise the old comic book fans some too, it could be that "a shadowy enemy that predates the universe itself" and "an enemy that not even Odin and Asgard can withstand" will be Hela.

She probably sees it as a high-yield-for-investment way to get more souls.

Don't forget, as you said yourself, it seems pretty likely that they are indeed following the comic arc, leading even you to believe that if someone is gonna kill Malekith, it will be Kurse. Again, yes, an altered Hela fits the role of said character described in the synopsis. However so does the character who REALLY is *that enemy* planning to destroy the realms, and he doesn't need an altering of character to fit that description. The possibility is there, but I am inclined to lean more towards Surtur, simply because he fits the description better. At this point, I really can't see it being anyone else. Time will tell though. Though I don't see them changing it that much, I don't know if too many fans would take too kindly to that. Cause myself, and others are expecting a Surtur twilight story following Malekith's arc, and that would be freakin awesome on screen. I am sure Marvel knows that to, so I don't know if changing the story in the MCU to hela would be the *right* move. And again, they don't need to alter surturs character to fit that description. So I am still inclined to think him. Hell, I want to see Mangog. Just like in the 60s, where he just walked through Asgard and destroyed everything lol. Silver Age Mangog lol, the most uber brute ever created by Marvel, he's what Hulk fanboys wish Hulk was like, they even think that world breaker hulk could take Manngog in the silver age :woot:

Hela is working with Malekith and the Elves (and possibly Surtur too, though I think based on what I know of Hela "working with" is a more accurate description than "working for")... anyway, they are working together, and Hela possesses Jane in order to get to the Asgardians. This would go along with the Lawden stuff about this spirit being connected to the Dark Elves, and it would allow for some scenes where Jane is acting as Hela, and breaking Thor's heart, might also allow for some Loki-Hela interaction where we find out what if any relationship there is, and in this case then Krige would not have much to do since Natalie would be doing the lion's share as Hela.

Reading through Hela's profile on Marvel.wikia, it doesnt' look like possession is in her wheelhouse. It also seems like she wouldn't prefer to possess someone anyway, since her own form would be a lot more powerful than what she would borrow from a Midgardian (the page says she can go toe-to-toe with Thor!!!)

I do think you are closer to the right idea with Hela in that she is at a lower power level than, say Surtur. As I said in one of the other threads (the Jane Foster one?), whatever possesses Jane has to be powerful enough to be able to do it, but low-powered enough to need to do it. Some of these beings are so powerful that they don't need to take a Midgardian form, period.

I think it's likely that Alice Krige plays whatever malevolent spirit possesses Jane, for the reason you mention. Alice Krige's role would be small, and Natalie Portman would provide most of the portrayal.

Here's a piece that I haven't yet fit into the overall narrative. Feige clarified for us in April that they are not in love; this is a quick crush over three days in the desert. Deciding whether they know/like/love each other will be on the agenda for Thor2. (So I have always been careful to characterize Thor's feelings for Jane at present as "sincere".) People seem to think these spoilers all occur really early in the story. So Jane must get possessed before she and Thor would have gotten very far in the know/like/love conversation. So certainly Thor cares for her and would be distraught at her peril. But I'm not certain her suffering (and potential demise) would be the kind of life-altering heartbreak that we've speculated on in the past. The relationship would need to be further along than it is likely to be at the point of the possession. (As I'm sure you'd guess, I think the relationship is capable of getting there, and has in the books. But I don't think it would be there at the beginning of the movie.)

So I wonder if Jane is possessed for only part of the movie, and the second half of the movie is digesting that experience and having that experience inform the know/like/love conversation. But it's not clear to me when she would shake off the malevolent spirit.

elizah put forward the idea in one of the other threads that maybe Thor is ordered by Odin to focus on defending Asgard and let the Dark Elves run amok on Midgard, The supposition continues that maybe he defies the order and defends Midgard.

The knife-twist is this: suppose the palace in Asgard City is overrun while Thor is away, and that's when Frigga is killed? Certainly everyone will have an opinion about Thor's decision, to paraphrase something that Tom Hiddleston said.

and actually if Malekith makes a play for her early on, (if he's able to find out about her somehow, through Loki or some magical way) and then he tries to kidnap her to use as bait just as he grabs Lorelei, but Thor stops him or gets her back, then that might be a legit reason for him taking her back to Asgard with him for a while. And this could be what the current fighting scenes being filmed are about also. Maybe... although I was thinking some of the shadow boxing stuff was against a CGI Kurse, which I think will be late in the movie. Plus I think that Malekith is more likely to grab Jane in a sneaky way, as I think he does Lorelei in the comics, and not come down with a huge army destroying stuff to do it. They actually have a shapeshifting elf pose as Lorelei in the comics for a time I guess, so that certainly could be what the "possession" is in reference to, actually, now that I've found that out. But then that would mean there would be some scenes with Jane, not Jane at all, and Jane is actually with Malekith through much of this. :wow: That could certainly lead into a "moral sacrifice" situation, if there ever was one.

This is when Odin is killed. Now here is a crazy idea, but I'll be curious what jaqua99 thinks especially. What if, Surtur does appear, in addition to Hela and Malekith, and Thor is on Earth defending Earth, and it's just Odin and Loki and the Asgardians vs Surtur and Hela's armies, and Odin is killed (probably taking out Surtur in the process, so a BIG death). This would be a MAJOR twist on the comics. And since the Asgardians have not read the comics, they dont know that Surtur kills Odin anyway (neither would Thor know this for that matter), so they could easily blame and shun Thor for not being there when he was needed most on Asgard. And most interesting of all, if Odin is dead, and possibly Frigga dead, and Thor being shunned by the people of Asgard, who is the only successor to the throne left? BINGO. Particularly if he chooses to fight beside Odin and the other Asgardians.

Now I know Tyr is supposed to be in there, so there may be him as an option too, but I thought it was more interesting if it were Loki. :) also I'm sort of thinking Tyr may not be a brother to Thor in this, possibly of Odin though, and I'm also thinking he may be already dead and involved with the Valhalla forces, so not a likely successor for that reason.

at the moment the theory I have, explains why Thor is alone fighting the Dark Elves and Malekith in these new scenes filming now. If he is asked by Odin to let the Dark Elves have Midgard, because there is so much bad going on in Asgard and the other realms. With the fighting in Bourne Woods shown a while back, it seems like there may be another non elf army threatening everyone else as well, and so it's seen as "for the greater good" that Thor just stay on fighting for Asgard and to help fight off this army, and ignore for now what happens to Midgard. But this is not a "moral sacrifice" Thor can accept. He vowed to defend Midgard and wont stand by and let it be taken over or destroyed, and so he deserts Asgard willingly, and defies father again, and goes down to defend Earth against the Dark Elves anyway. This would certainly make Odin less likely to make him King if he seems he's more invested in saving and protecting another realm than staying and defending Asgard and getting the other threat back under control. but at the same time, I can't see Thor doing any less than trying to defend Earth in such a situation. So... thoughts?