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-   -   What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=449111)

MAKAVELI25 11-24-2012 04:13 PM

What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
I've gotta say, as much as I criticized Nolan for the quick cut style he used in Batman Begins, in retrospect that might've been the most credible way to use Batman fighting multiple people

- Don't get me wrong, there are a couple of great fights in the trilogy such as Bane vs. Batman 1 and My favorite, the INCREDIBLE Batman vs. Swat in TDK. But as a whole a lot of the fights don't look that believable.

- Whenever Batman is facing more than one person, ESPECIALLY WITH GUNS, they just seem to stand around and wait for him to hit them. This was especially evident in the Hong Kong and Penthouse fight scenes in TDK, but you can still catch these same mistakes in TDKR, albeit to a less egregious degree. For instance, in both the rooftop scene and the scene where Batman is rescuing Blake, I feel like Bruce should've been shot multiple times. Maybe I've been spoiled by the Bourne movies, but apart from a few choice instances I haven't LOVED the choreography.

Note: I would've put this in the Fighting thread but I couldn't find it :huh:

Ant-LOX 11-24-2012 04:21 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
The case of a man in a Bat suit in a real world setting would have me a bit cautious as to what he would do.

Lunging at said man in his bat-suit when he's been heavily rumored to disappear and throw things, and channel an army of bats at whim, would keep me a little guarded.


that's the only real way I can think of the approach to some of the thugs in the movies. I like the techniques he uses, but they are a bit cheap, especially in the scene where he saves blake.

But, that's the reason he got his ass kicked by Bane. Bane knew how to take him out before he threw him off the ramp they were fighting on.

Bruce didn't learn much from that ass kicking either, but he was able to Best Bane, by attacking his Achilles face mask.

The fight sequences could have been better, but the guy on the poster is wearing a suit of armor, and as fluid as they made it, it's still limited.


Next movie, Spandex!

Brain Damage 11-24-2012 04:35 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
The fights in Begins were the only ones that ever all felt real. From the very first fight with Bruce fighting six to seven men in the prison to the last with him taking on Ra's on the train.

Every fight had a sense of realism and danger that the ones in TDK and TDKR simply did not have (sans Bane vs Batman).

Anno_Domini 11-24-2012 04:53 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
I definitely have a few problems with how the fights are held in that people seem to go at Bats one at a time and don't bother shooting him(although, it seemed like there were some guys shooting at Batman during that Hong Kong scene), but I feel that the choreography also became better in TDKR as well. While Batman vs Bane Round One was amazing, Round Two was still pretty good, although not as great as Round One.

TheBat812 11-24-2012 07:21 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
I thought the way they did it in BB was perfect and got around this issue, but so many complaints from fanboys and the GA alike made Nolan have to change his style, which did allow you to see more, but had that classic issue of people standing around waiting to fight or straight up being terrible shots. Whatever, the scenes are still very involving for me. In TDK in particular though, the fighting is pretty slow and too blatantly choreographed.

Fudgie 11-24-2012 07:22 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Best thing Nolan did was listen to the complaints about that damn shaky cam in Begins.

Anno_Domini 11-24-2012 07:28 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudgie (Post 24735095)
Best thing Nolan did was listen to the complaints about that damn shaky cam in Begins.

And instead we got fight scenes that felt way too choreographed and made the fighting seem like a play where one guy attacks the protagonist, and then another when the first is knocked down.

Oh yes, best thing indeed.

Fudgie 11-24-2012 07:30 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini (Post 24735123)
And instead we got fight scenes that felt way too choreographed and made the fighting seem like a play where one guy attacks the protagonist, and then another when the first is knocked down.

Oh yes, best thing indeed.

Damn right best thing indeed cos only nit picking fan boys saw what you say. Did ya hear some big outcry for the shaky cam to come back after TDK? Nope. Did ya hear some big outcry about the fights in TDK? Nope.

I am tickled pink.

Anno_Domini 11-24-2012 07:31 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudgie (Post 24735129)
Damn right best thing indeed cos only nit picking fan boys saw what you say. Did ya hear some big outcry for the shaky cam to come back after TDK? Nope. Did ya hear some big outcry about the fights in TDK? Nope.

I am tickled pink.

Didn't hear some big outcry about the shaky cam either except for the nitpicking fanboys as well :cwink:

Fudgie 11-24-2012 07:33 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini (Post 24735141)
Didn't hear some big outcry about the shaky cam either except for the nitpicking fanboys as well :cwink:

Nope the G.A. *****ed about it as well. That's why Nolan changed it.

Anno_Domini 11-24-2012 07:35 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudgie (Post 24735147)
Nope the G.A. *****ed about it as well. That's why Nolan changed it.

Didn't hear anything about the general audience *****ing about it at all.

Fudgie 11-24-2012 07:38 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini (Post 24735153)
Didn't hear anything about the general audience *****ing about it at all.

Then ya were living under a rock;

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBat812 (Post 24735091)
I thought the way they did it in BB was perfect and got around this issue, but so many complaints from fanboys and the GA alike made Nolan have to change his style

About the only thing the movie got real flak about.

Brain Damage 11-24-2012 07:38 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini (Post 24735123)
And instead we got fight scenes that felt way too choreographed and made the fighting seem like a play where one guy attacks the protagonist, and then another when the first is knocked down.

Oh yes, best thing indeed.

I'm very glad we agree on this.

Anno_Domini 11-24-2012 07:40 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudgie (Post 24735165)
Then ya were living under a rock;

2005...2005....I was living with my parents and they do not happen to live under a rock, so, nope, I don't believe I was and I also believe I still didn't hear any of the general audience *****ing about the shaky cam.

Fudgie 11-24-2012 07:44 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini (Post 24735187)
2005...2005....I was living with my parents and they do not happen to live under a rock, so, nope, I don't believe I was and I also believe I still didn't hear any of the general audience *****ing about the shaky cam.

Whether ya heard it or not doesn't change that it happened. That's why Nolan dropped it. Not fanboys. Fanboys whining changes nothing for Nolan. It it did they woulda made Nolan change the Bat voice.

But did that change after TDK? Nope.

Anno_Domini 11-24-2012 07:50 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudgie (Post 24735199)
Whether ya heard it or not doesn't change that it happened. That's why Nolan dropped it. Not fanboys. Fanboys whining changes nothing for Nolan. It it did they woulda made Nolan change the Bat voice.

But did that change after TDK? Nope.

Lol, you say these complaints were said...but...nothing to show me that they were indeed said....interesting....

The Joker 11-24-2012 07:56 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Anno, there was a fair amount complaining about the fight style in numerous reviews about how the fight scenes were filmed.

Quote:

Thatís where Nolanís movie really hits a roadblock, because the action never goes much further. Subsequent fights are shot with extreme close-ups and in overbearing shadow. We donít get many good looks at Batman in motion, and anything approaching a wide shot is obscured in heavy clouds of steam. The filmís climax features a powerful hand to hand battle between Batman and Raís Al Ghul, but with Nolanís camera three inches away from the Dark Knightís cowl Iíd be hard pressed to tell you who is punching who
http://www.cinemablend.com/reviews/B...egins-993.html


Quote:

The fight scenes in Batman Begins are numerous and freneticóexciting stuff but shot too close, edited to the point of abstraction, conveying danger and confusion, but denying the audience the chance to revel in Batman's skill. One doesn't know who's kicking, who's winning. All that's clear is that a fight is on and it must be intense because it's cut every eight frames.
http://www.illuminedillusions.com/Batman%20Begins.htm

I don't know if Nolan did a complete 180 in the sequels because of this or not, but the fact is he did drop that style.

Anno_Domini 11-24-2012 08:29 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Ahh, well I appreciate for you actually showing me than just talking, haha.

Needless to say though, I kinda wish Nolan didn't listen to these few complaints(if that is indeed the reason) and instead gave us over-choreographed fight scenes.

BatLobsterRises 11-24-2012 08:55 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudgie (Post 24735165)
About the only thing the movie got real flak about.

I'd say the fighting scenes and a lot of on-the-nose dialogue were the top two complaints.

the5timechamp 11-24-2012 09:10 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
The fighting in Begins was good for what it was and in the context of the feeling was trying to convey..

the guys waiting to be hit bothered me in TDK, but everything else in those fights (the music the circumstance) made up for the sloppy execution.

TDKR improved a little but still wasn't perfect.

I think what annoys the most about the fighting was that everything in the films is so meticulously staged that you would expect the fights to measure up to that standard..

circa1981 11-24-2012 09:50 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
I've always thought the way the fights in BB were filmed was the better choice because it gave the illusion that Batman was lighting fast, which he most certainly is not in the sequels. But there definitely was in improvement in between TDK and TDKR.

CapedCrusader14 11-24-2012 09:58 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
I've always been fine with the first shaky cam in the dockyard scene. I get what Nolan was trying to do with his whole "Batman is like the Alien in Alien" approach so we never really see him until he grabs Falcone.

The parking lot scene in TDK had great combat as did the final Prewitt Building sequence. The rest? Not so much, but they're still watchable.

The 1st Batman and Bane fight was fantastic, besides the obvious parts where you can tell that some hits weren't even connecting. I didn't really have any problems with the combat in Rises overall.

I'll say this, Nolan did a better job of convincing me that Batman can fight on-screen than any of the past films.

Steyin 11-24-2012 11:50 PM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
I also enjoyed the choppiness of the BB fights. Aside from Batman vs. Bane, everything in TDK and TDKR looked too staged and choreographed.

Anno_Domini 11-25-2012 10:38 AM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Ehh, I wouldn't say TDKR looked too choreographed. That mostly happened in TDK. The only things that looked off were when Batman entered the City Hall and the guy ran up to him, metaphorically asking to be punched while trying to only hit Batman with his gun and then the overly-choreographed cops vs LoS/criminals.

MAKAVELI25 11-25-2012 11:13 AM

Re: What is your opinion on the overall quality of the fight scenes in TDK and TDKR?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini (Post 24736811)
Ehh, I wouldn't say TDKR looked too choreographed. That mostly happened in TDK. The only things that looked off were when Batman entered the City Hall and the guy ran up to him, metaphorically asking to be punched while trying to only hit Batman with his gun and then the overly-choreographed cops vs LoS/criminals.

This happens a couple of times in TDKR. Even in that rooftop fight sequence with Catwoman everyone tries to hit him conveniently ignoring the fact that they are holding guns


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