The SuperHeroHype Forums

The SuperHeroHype Forums (http://forums.superherohype.com/index.php)
-   Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (http://forums.superherohype.com/forumdisplay.php?f=619)
-   -   The Reboot Joker (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=450765)

The Hyena 12-29-2012 01:59 AM

The Reboot Joker
 
It's quite obvious that what happened with Heath is a tragedy and many believe that the Joker should be "retired" in honor of the stellar performances he has already received. I disagree completely. The Joker is the anthesis of Bats, a trilogy (or saga, or however films the reboot will be) would simply ring hollow without the Clown Prince making an appearance. So I have some questions for you:

What Film Should He Be Introduced In: If we are talking a trilogy, having him introduced in the second film in Arkham and then escaping to wreak havoc in the third would be rather interesting.
Origin: I honestly believe no origin is necessary for this character. The Red Hood story could be done in flashbacks at most, but really if his origin is just left a mystery it makes the character all the more terrifying.
Harley Quinn: Absolutely! It's about time Harley hit the big screen!
Funny or Dark: Both! Nicholson did a great job representing the comedic side of Mr. J, while Heath brought forth a terrifying mass murderer; blend the two together and you have the perfect arch-villain!
The Look: This is probably the question I am most interested in you guys answering. After seeing the comic book look of Nicholson and the deranged make-up wearing psychopath of Heath, I can only wonder what the next Joker will look like. I think ditch the makeup idea, have his skin actually be white (or maybe even REALLY pale), have his hair be a dark, almost black, green, and I think his eyebrows and eyes should be black and brown. He should apply eyeliner and lipstick to pronounce his theatrics.
Relationship with Bats: This is also a huge point. I think the idea of Joker totally depending on Batman should be really brought to the table in the reboot. Have the character portray that he genuinely believes him and the Bats are the best of friends. Possibly to an almost homosexual extent, before you raise red flags, consider Raoul Silva and Bond, just toned down a bit.

Also, time for Todd to die. Let's have Joker kill Robin this time around!

Baramos 12-29-2012 11:27 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
He shouldn't be in the first reboot they do. Assuming these movies have at least three year turnaround, if they do the reboot in 2016, that means over ten years will have passed since Ledger's turn when they release a sequel. I think that will be quite long enough for the public's consciousness to be "ready" for a different version of the Joker.

I'm in favor of no "origin" per se, though I think some adaptation of Batman's first encounter with the Joker should be done--perhaps something similar to The Man Who Laughs (which I guess is now not the FIRST encounter, according to the New 52, which I guess keeps Batman #1 in continuity as well, but anyway, you know what I mean, one of the first encounters).

Not sure about Harley Quinn. Depends on how "wacky" this version of the Joker is--if it's a "lighter" Joker more in line with most of the comics or The Animated Series then fine.

As for how dark...I dunno, I reread the Laughing Fish recently. I liked that version. That's not very "dark" but definitely insane and deadly.

I actually have no problem with "make-up" Joker versus bleached Joker. I think it changes the exact nature of his madness if it's make-up, though. I assume they will be more comic-book-like with this new one though so they will probably go with bleached.

Relationship with Batman, I think at the end of the day there needs to be a deep-seated hatred of Batman that is simmering WAY below the surface. The Joker pretends he wants to play with Batman but in the end really would like to kill him--and is continually prevented from achieving this goal.

The only way I'd like Death in the Family is if it led to Under the Red Hood. Otherwise leave Todd out of it entirely. If you want to do Robin do an adaptation of The Long Halloween and then Dark Victory...

Rodrigo90 12-29-2012 11:37 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
His role should be a mix of Death In The Family and Death Of The Family...Say these movies have Batman establish new relationships with Robin and Batgirl...and Joker wants to take them away from him, along with his new relationship, Harley.

S. Grundy 12-29-2012 11:57 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Considering the rumor that Levitt may be Batman, a reboot anytime soon is probably doubtful.

FeedOnATreeFrog 12-30-2012 12:38 AM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
perhaps the recent faceless/mask joker would enough of a differentiation from Ledgers, look-wise.

The Joker 12-30-2012 07:22 AM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog (Post 24918273)
perhaps the recent faceless/mask joker would enough of a differentiation from Ledgers, look-wise.

Oh no! He looks like a bizarre version of Leatherface.

Rodrigo90 01-01-2013 03:50 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S. Grundy (Post 24918143)
Considering the rumor that Levitt may be Batman, a reboot anytime soon is probably doubtful.

Well if that's the case, I imagine another trilogy featuring Blake as Batman, confronting the Joker in the third film, and losing the battle with Joker...prompting a return of Bale as Bruce, and HIS final confrontation with the Joker. Perfect ending!

This leaves a potential opening of a third trilogy, featuring an aged Batman in a future Gotham with Blake as Nightwing.

The Crimson Man 01-01-2013 11:13 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
In the first film have Batman chase someone down into a chemical plant, have him accidentally fall into a vat of chemical waste. (Don't have him full on red hood, but maybe have him wear a literal red hood as a nod for the fans) at the end of the first film, though it DOES sound like a repeat of the Batman Begins ending, have maybe Gordon say to Batman that the freaks are on the rise, mentioning that the police recently arrested someone dressed as a clown for an example. In the second film have a scene inside Arkham where it is mentioned the a Dr. Harleen Quinnzel has been having sessions with "Mr. J", maybe hinting that she is starting to fall for him. A post credits scene would be Harleen sitting down to begin a session with Mr. J, who has his back to the Camera. After exchanging a few words, the final shot of the film would be Mr. J from the front, smiling. Third film would be full on Harley and Joker.

Obviously his skin would be dyed white. His hair would be green, not a bright green, but something more noticeable than Heath Ledger. He would wear eyeliner and would have lipstick going to his cheeks in the shape of a smile. Costume would be the same as Arkham Asylum/City, except with a green skinny tie instead of the bow tie. Personality would be similar to heath ledger, except with a bigger sense of humor.

Doc Ock 01-02-2013 09:14 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog (Post 24918273)
perhaps the recent faceless/mask joker would enough of a differentiation from Ledgers, look-wise.

I hope thats not the case...having that look.

craigdbfan 01-03-2013 03:34 AM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 (Post 24928751)
Well if that's the case, I imagine another trilogy featuring Blake as Batman, confronting the Joker in the third film, and losing the battle with Joker...prompting a return of Bale as Bruce, and HIS final confrontation with the Joker. Perfect ending!

This leaves a potential opening of a third trilogy, featuring an aged Batman in a future Gotham with Blake as Nightwing.

I'm sorry but just a gigantic "No" to all of that.

Edguy 01-07-2013 05:12 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Doing a origin for Joker would be idiotic. A big part of what I love about him, is that nobody knows who he is, or why he is like he is.

IE "Do you wanna know how I got these scars?"

shauner111 01-07-2013 05:30 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 (Post 24928751)
Well if that's the case, I imagine another trilogy featuring Blake as Batman, confronting the Joker in the third film, and losing the battle with Joker...prompting a return of Bale as Bruce, and HIS final confrontation with the Joker. Perfect ending!

This leaves a potential opening of a third trilogy, featuring an aged Batman in a future Gotham with Blake as Nightwing.

I don't think a whole new trilogy is necessary but 1 or 2 movies...id be fine with that.

If Heath was alive (or re-cast in the coming years) and Bale returned, i wouldnt mind that kind of confrontation in film #2.

Blake begins mentoring teenage Dick Grayson inside the Manor/Orphanage and Blake gets killed at the end of that first movie by the Joker, who just escaped. Bruce finds him like 'A Death In The Family'. Bruce comes back to replace Lucius Fox (who retires from Wayne Enterprises) and he continues mentoring and training young Grayson. All of that would be shown in the second movie. Bruce calls Dick "Robin" in honor of John Blake's real name.

Optimus_Prime_ 01-08-2013 10:41 AM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
I'm a big fan of the older, already established Batman reboot idea. Perhaps with Robin or other sidekicks. So I'd rather like it if they made the point the Joker already existed at the start of the film.

Rodrigo90 01-08-2013 03:48 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Whatever the case, I don't want another plot like he's going to poison people...I consider that one of his off days

What I've learned from TDK, The Killing Joke, Arkham Aylum:ASHOASE, Lovers and Madmen, Brian Azzarello's Joker is that his existence is tied to causing chaos and madness.

Joker was turned mad by his philosophy on life...that EVERYTHING is a joke. Life is a joke, death is a joke, law and order is a joke, the Bible is a joke, existence itself is a joke. Just imagine we're all in a soap opera and we're unaware of it...Joker has stepped outside that show and realised how absurd we are inside it. To him, he is the sane one...and that only comes from the release due to madness. Once we go insane, only then do we have our eyes opened to the 'truth' like his are.
And from madness, evil can occur...and Joker has embraced that...he's the true form of human existence, at least in his twisted mind. Everything that is good is a lie, and everything that is evil is funny, and the truth. Because insanity and evil is just under the lie of the human soul that embraces order and good - a false and absurd notion...if Joker can eradicate that from people, then he can open their eyes to the abusrdity of law and order and the existence of life...and then we can all act like the clowns we truly are and laugh together with him.

Why does he go after Batman? Because Batman is a representation of the unshakable force of law and order and a belief system of harmony. But what infuriates Joker more is that, Batman borders on the line of madness, but will never cross it. Joker doesn't want to think Batman is the representation of all humanity, because if that's the limit, then no one will be like him...
Joker thinks if he can turn Batman insane, then he can do it to anybody.

shauner111 01-08-2013 04:33 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 (Post 24966181)
Whatever the case, I don't want another plot like he's going to poison people...I consider that one of his off days

What I've learned from TDK, The Killing Joke, Arkham Aylum:ASHOASE, Lovers and Madmen, Brian Azzarello's Joker is that his existence is tied to causing chaos and madness.

Joker was turned mad by his philosophy on life...that EVERYTHING is a joke. Life is a joke, death is a joke, law and order is a joke, the Bible is a joke, existence itself is a joke. Just imagine we're all in a soap opera and we're unaware of it...Joker has stepped outside that show and realised how absurd we are inside it. To him, he is the sane one...and that only comes from the release due to madness. Once we go insane, only then do we have our eyes opened to the 'truth' like his are.
And from madness, evil can occur...and Joker has embraced that...he's the true form of human existence, at least in his twisted mind. Everything that is good is a lie, and everything that is evil is funny, and the truth. Because insanity and evil is just under the lie of the human soul that embraces order and good - a false and absurd notion...if Joker can eradicate that from people, then he can open their eyes to the abusrdity of law and order and the existence of life...and then we can all act like the clowns we truly are and laugh together with him.

Why does he go after Batman? Because Batman is a representation of the unshakable force of law and order and a belief system of harmony. But what infuriates Joker more is that, Batman borders on the line of madness, but will never cross it. Joker doesn't want to think Batman is the representation of all humanity, because if that's the limit, then no one will be like him...
Joker thinks if he can turn Batman insane, then he can do it to anybody.

:applaud

"Madness...as you know...is like...gravity. All it takes is, a little push!"

Rodrigo90 01-08-2013 04:36 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Sends chills down my spine to this day :hehe:

hellblazer103 01-10-2013 03:47 AM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
i think it's about time to introduce morrison's "super sanity " concept . i've always liked it. plus that way there's alot more freedom, so not just one , but several different interpretations of the character could be done all in the same movie. one scene he's the prankster, the other the killer, and it could branch out to all sorts of other ideas or interpretations we've seen(or new ones), like the suave, sharp dressed criminal mastermind, or just a disgruntled, homicidal, insane stand up comedian. hell, even the drag queen we see in ASHOSE or dark knight returns could fit in somewhere.

i just find the idea fascinating : underneath the clown persona, all the theatrics , pranks, humour, creativeness, etc. joker is just a blank, empty ,inhuman,emotionless, michael myers esque psychopath/sociopath with no real personality and, as ledger once described it brilliantly, "zero empathy", who just makes it up as he experiences the world around him.it's actually extremely creepy to me.

dude love 01-10-2013 04:06 AM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
No origins for Joker.

But they need to show the character's inherent sadness;

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


I think this was a facet of Heath Ledger's performance that went over a lot of peoples heads.

As for his physical appearance, i'd like to see how deranged the character can look with his bleached skin.

Edguy 01-10-2013 04:15 AM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
I kind of liked the dirty face paint better than the bleached skin way..

Rodrigo90 01-10-2013 02:30 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dude love (Post 24975149)
No origins for Joker.

But they need to show the character's inherent sadness;

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


I think this was a facet of Heath Ledger's performance that went over a lot of peoples heads.

As for his physical appearance, i'd like to see how deranged the character can look with his bleached skin.

Deep down, Joker is a lonely man...scarred by his own mind and the world around him. He's wants people to join him...which is creepy, but sad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellblazer103 (Post 24975119)
i think it's about time to introduce morrison's "super sanity " concept . i've always liked it. plus that way there's alot more freedom, so not just one , but several different interpretations of the character could be done all in the same movie. one scene he's the prankster, the other the killer, and it could branch out to all sorts of other ideas or interpretations we've seen(or new ones), like the suave, sharp dressed criminal mastermind, or just a disgruntled, homicidal, insane stand up comedian. hell, even the drag queen we see in ASHOSE or dark knight returns could fit in somewhere.

i just find the idea fascinating : underneath the clown persona, all the theatrics , pranks, humour, creativeness, etc. joker is just a blank, empty ,inhuman,emotionless, michael myers esque psychopath/sociopath with no real personality and, as ledger once described it brilliantly, "zero empathy", who just makes it up as he experiences the world around him.it's actually extremely creepy to me.

That's why I liked the concept of Heath's Joker painting his face, he was creating a new persona for himself under his own free will. Comics Joker was born that way accidentally.

If Joker was to be bleached bone white once more, I want it to be from his own choice. Just imagine what that does to your mind?

I want him take regular baths in the stuff, so he doesn't see one trace of humanity left on him. He has had surgery to alter his mouth into a smile. He applys makeup, and even paints his nails a different color. Dyes his hair. Changes his voice. Taking Heath's concept and mixing it more in with Morrison's idea, which is comic Joker. Joker is creating his concept on humanity. It give him more variety to do. It all reflects on different aspects on his crackpot view on society...that we do different things, that we dress like this, we talk like that...but whatever and whoever we are...we are all clowns, like him.

That's how he copes...he becomes something different, something amusing to him.

If Joker had a motto, I think it would be the old classic
"If I didn't laugh, I'd cry". That ranges from seeing evil to comitting it himself.

Society has done that to him....so he copes by creating a new one. It's easier for him to think we're all crazy evil clowns than anything else.

hellblazer103 01-10-2013 02:49 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 (Post 24977945)
Deep down, Joker is a lonely man...scarred by his own mind and the world around him. He's wants people to join him...which is creepy, but sad.

That's why I liked the concept of Heath's Joker painting his face, he was creating a new persona for himself under his own free will. Comics Joker was born that way accidentally.

If Joker was to be bleached bone white once more, I want it to be from his own choice. Just imagine what that does to your mind?

I want him take regular baths in the stuff, so he doesn't see one trace of humanity left on him. He has had surgery to alter his mouth into a smile. He applys makeup, and even paints his nails a different color. Dyes his hair. Changes his voice. Taking Heath's concept and mixing it more in with Morrison's idea, which is comic Joker. Joker is creating his concept on humanity. It give him more variety to do. It all reflects on different aspects on his crackpot view on society...that we do different things, that we dress like this, we talk like that...but whatever and whoever we are...we are all clowns, like him.

That's how he copes...he becomes something different, something amusing to him.

If Joker had a motto, I think it would be the old classic
"If I didn't laugh, I'd cry". That ranges from seeing evil to comitting it himself.

Society has done that to him....so he copes by creating a new one. It's easier for him to think we're all crazy evil clowns than anything else.

i like the way you think. lol

Rodrigo90 01-10-2013 03:09 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Cheers :up::)

It's disturbing to believe that he views exsistence, the world, people, culture, even himself as nothing but jokes.

It's why he's called the Joker, and why he does what he does. He's creating himself in view of his philosophy, that we're all jokes.

It's why in the comics he has variety to his crimes...some days he's a harmless prankster, the other days he's a homicidal lunatic. It's why he can commit so many different crimes...because it all borders on the theme that EVERYTHING is a joke.
Killing people and putting smiles on their faces, or letting them live to go insane like him.

Optimus_Prime_ 01-10-2013 03:19 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dude love (Post 24975149)
No origins for Joker.

But they need to show the character's inherent sadness;

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


I think this was a facet of Heath Ledger's performance that went over a lot of peoples heads.

As for his physical appearance, i'd like to see how deranged the character can look with his bleached skin.

I wish Ledger had incorporated some of Jack's freak outs or stuff like "Bob...gun" *shoots Bob*.

Other than that Ledger pretty much nailed it completely.

However I think the character is great. Other actors can come along and do that role justice.

I think he should just show up Perma-white next time. No origin. No reference to whether it's paint or his skin. He's just the Joker now and that's the way it is.

I'd like it if he and Batman are already at odds with each other.

hellblazer103 01-10-2013 03:29 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
on a slightly related note, this is amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIQKiKoFuHs

Baramos 01-10-2013 09:12 PM

Re: The Reboot Joker
 
That was a great graphic novel...


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com, A property of CraveOnline, a divison of AtomicOnline, LLC © 2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.