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zmystico 02-02-2013 01:26 AM

Someone please explain why....
 
most posters on the board have the idea that Gotham STILL needs Batman?

In Begins, Bruce made it clear that Gotham needed a dramatic example to shake them out of apathy...ergo Batman.

In TDK, The Joker tries to prove that the citizens of Gotham would turn on themselves.

At the end of TDKR, Batman's return inspires the citizens to fight, those that once were afraid, laid down their lives to fight Bane/Talia/LOS.

So...why does Gotham still need Batman?

Anno_Domini 02-02-2013 01:42 AM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Not all citizens fought alongside Batman. It was only the GCPD.

And while I still understand your point, there will still need to be someone that would have to fight outside the lines of the law since there is a likely chance for there to be crime again with the Dent Act demolished...mobs could start to show up once more. Blake being that person is still very, very likely to resume duties that Bruce Wayne had.

Dark Guardian 02-02-2013 10:50 AM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
I totally understand your point and I feel that for the most part, you're right. Gotham has become a city where the people are just again, the people are active again and they will remember Batman's legacy and not allow crime to take control of the city once more.
However, Bruce, being the tactician that he is, plays all the angles. And while I'm sure he is proud and satisfied that he's done the job he set out to do, when he goes off to divest himself of Gotham (which in a way has been holding him back for so very long) he's still going to make sure that, should there be something that the citizens of Gotham cannot handle by themselves, Batman will still be there to protect the city. So while Gotham may not need Batman, certainly not in the way it did in Begins, Bruce see's a kindred spirit in Blake, someone who can take up the mantle and be there for the city if something comes up that is beyond the capabilities of the police and citizenry.

shauner111 02-02-2013 11:58 AM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
I think the idea is that Gotham may not need Batman again but just incase, Bruce set up a successor who would be motivated to take over. Because the Dent Act means zilch now, and the city may or may not be vulnerable due to Batmans death. So organized crime may start to rise up slowly or if Joker returns in some shape or form, or if a serial killer decides to make his/her mark...Gotham would need Batman 100 %. But it may not even lead to any of this. And that's the point of the end. Or if it does need Bats, it could be just for a one-off appearance to scare the **** out of some new criminal (and thus scaring the city more than ever) since they would look at him as a dark spirit watching over them.

But i get what ur saying, because it could be a good setup, for "Gotham is strong enough to move forward on its own".

Anno_Domini 02-02-2013 12:11 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Plus, let's not forget about this: there is no batsuit, and Blake does not know that Lucius helped out Wayne. There is only that super computer in the batcave that Blake COULD just use to help out the GCPD and could just be a male version of Oracle from now on. The ending leaves so many options for the viewer to think of.

I would like to think Blake could be a successor, but another option is that they could just leave the Batman legacy "dead" as it is and Blake helps in other ways.

shauner111 02-02-2013 12:22 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Absolutely. Well, i think Blake could put it together in his head that Fox might have helped him in building these things secretely.

FeedOnATreeFrog 02-02-2013 03:08 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Gotham doesn't need Batman.

When and if it does need Batman again, if crime seeps it's way back into the system in a way that the police can't handle,Blake will be there, as Bruce's body has reached its limit.

zmystico 02-02-2013 03:16 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini (Post 25112233)
Plus, let's not forget about this: there is no batsuit, and Blake does not know that Lucius helped out Wayne. There is only that super computer in the batcave that Blake COULD just use to help out the GCPD and could just be a male version of Oracle from now on. The ending leaves so many options for the viewer to think of.

I would like to think Blake could be a successor, but another option is that they could just leave the Batman legacy "dead" as it is and Blake helps in other ways.

I love that, cause it goes back to what Alfred was telling Bruce when he suited up again, "they don't need you that way anymore, they need your mind and your resources," I love the idea of Blake using the mind/resources as opposed to him suiting up as Batman II or whoever.

He has the computer and the detective skills to be able to work with the GCPD or even just in "secret" with Gordon...but to me, Gotham no longer needs or will need a "masked vigilante" sacrificing his body.

Piper Maru 02-02-2013 05:39 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Because, like many of the fans on this forum, they're never pleased.

Anno_Domini 02-02-2013 06:25 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shauner111 (Post 25112265)
Absolutely. Well, i think Blake could put it together in his head that Fox might have helped him in building these things secretely.

Maybe. If he knew Bruce was Batman so quickly, maybe he deduced that all of Batman's vehicles were from Wayne Enterprises. Or maybe he runs into Coleman Reese one day :funny:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zmystico (Post 25113123)
I love that, cause it goes back to what Alfred was telling Bruce when he suited up again, "they don't need you that way anymore, they need your mind and your resources," I love the idea of Blake using the mind/resources as opposed to him suiting up as Batman II or whoever.

He has the computer and the detective skills to be able to work with the GCPD or even just in "secret" with Gordon...but to me, Gotham no longer needs or will need a "masked vigilante" sacrificing his body.

After a few viewings, I actually thought of that...with there being no batsuits and really no more vehicles to use, there is just that computer in the Batcave and I think it's definitely a cool idea for Blake to just stay as a "detective" and just his knowledge and resources while the Batman legacy is just prospered through the Batman statue and the rebuilt bat signal.

the last son 02-02-2013 06:29 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Gotham will always need Batman. Gotham produces Villains like nobody's business. I actually think Gotham was going to go to being just as bad after the bombings.

Anno_Domini 02-02-2013 06:35 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Gotham really produced a whole lot of villains, huh? Lol.

Piper Maru 02-02-2013 07:14 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Gotham is a villain factory?

Anno_Domini 02-02-2013 07:40 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Yah, Gotham City has a sweatshop near the Narrows that produces quality villains.

Satisfaction guaranteed!

FeedOnATreeFrog 02-02-2013 08:58 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zmystico (Post 25113123)
I love that, cause it goes back to what Alfred was telling Bruce when he suited up again, "they don't need you that way anymore, they need your mind and your resources," I love the idea of Blake using the mind/resources as opposed to him suiting up as Batman II or whoever.

He has the computer and the detective skills to be able to work with the GCPD or even just in "secret" with Gordon...but to me, Gotham no longer needs or will need a "masked vigilante" sacrificing his body.

Well that's cause Bruce has reached his physical limit (no cartilage in knees, etc). Any strenuous activity will lead to severe and permanent damage of his body.

Which is why he hands over the cowl to someone younger, like Blake.

Also, Blake has no knowledge and resources, haha.

TheDreamMaster 02-02-2013 09:24 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Why is there no Batsuit? What about the Begins suit? Plus maybe Bruce came back and left the last suit for Blake. He had to set up those instructions at some point too.

shauner111 02-02-2013 10:10 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
I'd say there's no suit. But that's what Fox is there for. If Blake figures out that Lucius provided Bruce with those "wonderful toys" (which wouldn't be difficult) then they can create a new one tailor made for John. He can probably see at the funeral that his butler was more than that and he knows about Gordons relationship to him, and Mr. Fox is at the funeral too? He's obviously more than just an employee then. Obviously he meant something to Bruce/Batman. So it should be a piece of cake for Blake to get that suit.

Vehicles? Perhaps Catwoman left behind the bat-pod. Other than that, there's nothing.

It's all in the imagination though. Maybe this character improvises and doesn't need Fox. Nobody knows.

Fox can do some digging and figure out that Blake looks over the equipment in the cave and left his career behind. I can see Fox creating some toys for Blake just incase he needs it (hey he did it when Bruce was supposedly retired for 8 years, what's stopping him now!).

Blake as an oracle type character is also a cool idea. Very simplistic but impactful.

The last thing i can think of is that some of Bane's mercenaries could be out there. The ones that got away from the police. I can see them becoming henchmen for some new crimelords that want to take advantage of the situation. Therefore Blake may need to suit up.

AnneFan 02-02-2013 10:27 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini (Post 25113969)
After a few viewings, I actually thought of that...with there being no batsuits and really no more vehicles to use, there is just that computer in the Batcave and I think it's definitely a cool idea for Blake to just stay as a "detective" and just his knowledge and resources while the Batman legacy is just prospered through the Batman statue and the rebuilt bat signal.

That's what I thought, too. Using the batcomputer databases. Not working as a cop, but assisting them by relaying information, etc.

ThePhantasm 02-02-2013 10:53 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Blake wasn't intended to just stay in there as a detective. Bruce repeatedly advises him to "wear a mask" in the movie. Its clear he intends Blake to actually be Batman.

zmystico 02-02-2013 11:10 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm (Post 25115129)
Blake wasn't intended to just stay in there as a detective. Bruce repeatedly advises him to "wear a mask" in the movie. Its clear he intends Blake to actually be Batman.

To me, creating another Batman means Batman failed, but it does raise a point raised in TDK, "In Roman times, they would appoint a protector of the city, it wasn't considered a duty, but an honor (or something like that)"

Anno_Domini 02-02-2013 11:24 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDreamMaster (Post 25114765)
Why is there no Batsuit? What about the Begins suit? Plus maybe Bruce came back and left the last suit for Blake. He had to set up those instructions at some point too.

Why would Bruce want to leave Blake a beaten down suit that was too heavy for even Bruce himself?

Happy Jack 02-03-2013 12:15 AM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zmystico (Post 25110979)
most posters on the board have the idea that Gotham STILL needs Batman?

In Begins, Bruce made it clear that Gotham needed a dramatic example to shake them out of apathy...ergo Batman.

In TDK, The Joker tries to prove that the citizens of Gotham would turn on themselves.

At the end of TDKR, Batman's return inspires the citizens to fight, those that once were afraid, laid down their lives to fight Bane/Talia/LOS.

So...why does Gotham still need Batman?

For me it goes back to the Joker's line in Knight: "You've changed things forever. There's no going back."

The implication is that although at the end of Rises Gotham has pulled itself out of the proverbial ditch through Batman's example, there will still be forces that only Batman, the anonymous "watchful guardian" who is the eternal symbol that exists outside the normal parameters of society and the law, can deal with. We know that eventually Joker and his supervillain ilk will resurface from wherever he his and that Batman will have to be there to stop them.

Bruce_Begins 02-03-2013 09:55 AM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Quote:

Blake wasn't intended to just stay in there as a detective. Bruce repeatedly advises him to "wear a mask" in the movie. Its clear he intends Blake to actually be Batman.
Blake knows that the whole Gotham City believes that Batman has sacrificed himself to save the City, Yes ?

Blake Knows that a statue of Batman has been placed in the Gotham City's Town Hall by the mayor.

So, why many people believe that Blake was going to be the new Batman, I believe that if Nolan wanted to show that Blake is indeed Gotham's new Batman, he would have shown a Batsuit coming out of the Batcave platform.

Batman telling Blake to wear a mask and handing him all the resources to Batcave means that he wants Blake to become a new vigilante (Nightwing ?)

I think that Nolan wanted the Bat legend to end with TDKR.

JDonaldD 02-04-2013 01:41 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins (Post 25116573)
Blake knows that the whole Gotham City believes that Batman has sacrificed himself to save the City, Yes ?

Blake Knows that a statue of Batman has been placed in the Gotham City's Town Hall by the mayor.

So, why many people believe that Blake was going to be the new Batman, I believe that if Nolan wanted to show that Blake is indeed Gotham's new Batman, he would have shown a Batsuit coming out of the Batcave platform.

Batman telling Blake to wear a mask and handing him all the resources to Batcave means that he wants Blake to become a new vigilante (Nightwing ?)

I think that Nolan wanted the Bat legend to end with TDKR.


Showing the Batsuit coming up would have been a little too obvious for Nolan's taste, I think. It's up for interpretation of course, but the rebuilt Bat signal and Blake being swarmed by Bats, seeming to embrace them, are some of the suggestions he will be a new Batman. I think the point is that the Bat Legend is everlasting, Bruce changed things forever. Blake deals with the film's generational theme. Ra's notes there are many forms of immortality. Blake taking the mantle makes Batman more than a man and immortal.

And in response to the original posters remark: there were no ordinary citizens that fought back, only the cops after Batman broke them out. Nolan's Batman world is not very populist. Which might be why we don't see the ordinary citizens being inspired to take back their city. The movie kind of suggests they failed and need Batman to save them. It's kinda problematic for me.

shauner111 02-04-2013 04:19 PM

Re: Someone please explain why....
 
It's also suggesting that no matter what, it's impossible to expect all citizens to come together to protect their city as a union of "good" to fight off evil. It's just impossible. There's always going to be people who are too lazy to do anything, cowardly waiting for the place to be fixed through the actions of others. There's always going to be people who ENJOY the bad that is happening. And there will always only be a portion of good people who will actually stand up.

So there's a ****load of work to do in Gotham. I think the idea is that perhaps once they're saved from an atom bomb and they honor Batman, a ton of them may stand up now. But that's only a portion. That's why Batman is still needed.

It's Nolans way of creating a young successor to the cowl, like Terry, but in a seperate universe. While giving a nice wink to the fans with the "Robin" reference.

It's a way of saying..

"yes this is an original character created for this trilogy but he is the epitome of almost every successor that's ever been under Bruce Wayne. We wont show you Batgirl or a kid Grayson/Todd/Drake/Kelly running around in a red suit, or a sci-fi Bats who comes back to the cave to see 80 year old Bruce with his dog Ace. But they all have something in common: the theme of passing the mantle. For the legacy to live forever through multiple generations".


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