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-   -   Which villain(s) should the reboot start with? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=452975)

TheFantasticJoe 02-13-2013 12:33 PM

Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
At this point, most of the Batman essential villains have been used. For a quick rundown, the movie villains we've had so far:

The Joker
The Penguin
Catwoman (technically counts as a villain)
Two-Face
The Riddler
Poison Ivy
Mr. Freeze
Bane
Zsasz
Scarecrow
Ra's al Ghul
Talia al Ghul

Are there any villains that haven't been used yet that you would like to see? If not, which villains that have been used are most deserving of a reboot? Assuming a new Batman movie series is started, which villain would you most like to see kick off the reboot, be it an unused villain or a new interpretation of one we've already seen on film? Please feel free to share your ideal scenarios. :)

SlamAdams 02-13-2013 12:38 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Riddler is the one who is most deserving of a reboot.

I would like to see them establish Penguin as a Falcone figure like in Batman Begins. Never the main baddie, but a gangster all the same

Brain Damage 02-13-2013 12:39 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
The thing I really hope this series does is start with The Joker already established. I've seen his first encounter with Batman done twice now, and to me, the most interesting aspect of their relationship has always been the longevity of it. They're like two dancers who have performed together time and time again with neither of them ever being able to end the dance. Joker should be there from the first movie in a Hannibal Lecter type supporting role and he should eventually get the spotlight in film 3 or 4. This would also be a fantastic opportunity to do a live action Harley Quinn.

ThePhantasm 02-13-2013 12:42 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Film 1: Businessmen Roman Sionis and Roland Dagget own competing companies, and are working with the mob to sabotage each others' businesses. Sionis, who disguises himself as the Black Mask, has better mob connections (including an illegal weapons dealer at Oswald Copplepot's Iceberg Lounge) but Dagget has a secret weapon: Matt Hagan, who Dagget is feeding a special Clayface substance to allow him to change his facial appearance at will. Sionis discovers this, destroys the plant making the substance, and causes Hagan to overdose on it, saturating him in it, turning him into Clayface. But in the chaos there is an accident - some of the substance strikes Sionis in the face, permanently sealing his mask to his flesh and making his mask move with his expressions. Both criminals slowly fall into insanity due to this event, igniting a volatile gang war with Gotham caught in the middle.

Film 2: Gotham is under attack. Multiple fires have been started by the pyromaniac terrorist Firefly. After several fires nearly spiral out of control, a private business takes Dr. Victor Fries off of his cyrogenic research to develop a new fire control suit with a special Freeze Gun. Victor develops it and it exceeds their expectations - they want him to develop more for military use. When he refuses, they hire the mob to trash his lab and destroy his work. A lab explosion turns him into the vengeful Mr. Freeze. Now Freeze teams up with Firefly to wreak havok on all of Gotham.

Film 3: Jervis Tetch, aka the Mad Hatter, develops a special mind control drug known as Wonderland and uses it in conjunction with subliminal messages to begin to manipulate the wealthy and powerful in Gotham to his will. Obsessed with a young girl named Alice, he kidnaps her and keeps her in a constant drugged state so that she will love him. Tetch teams up with Edward Nigma, the Riddler, who masterminds a plan through which they can slowly take control of Gotham. But Alice is from Selina Kyle's neighborhood, and is a young girl who Selina has looked after for years - so Selina becomes Catwoman and searches for the Hatter. When the Wonderland serum is spread throughout Gotham, turning it into a madhouse, Batman must decipher the Riddler's continuous riddles and survive his traps in order to secure an antidote and save the city.


Film 4: The Scarecrow attempts to cause widespread fear throughout Gotham, but is foiled repeatedly by Batman. Crane wants Batman to know fear. He allies with Hugo Strange, who has discovered Batman's true identity as Bruce Wayne. Discovering the truth to Batman's tragic past, Crane and Strange send genetically altered "Monster Men" to capture Batman and lock him in an abandoned wing of Arkham. Locked in as well are three families, each with two parents and a small child, caught in a death trap - the idea is that each child will have to witness his parent's murder, and Batman will not arrive in time to stop it. Batman must think through the fear toxin, escape Strange's monster men, and save each family in time (which, of course, he will. He's Batman :cwink:). In the end, Scarecrow is made insane by his own fear toxin, forgetting Batman's identity because he is so fearfully fixed on the Batman persona. Strange will be destroyed by his own monster men.

Themes:

1: Masks / Persona / Identity
2: Vengeance
3: Freedom / Free Will vs. Order / Peace
4: Courage in the face of Tragedy

TheFantasticJoe 02-13-2013 12:46 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
If the Riddler is used, there's a specific way I'd like to see him done. To pull the Riddler off properly, the movie needs to place Batman's detective skills in the spotlight. Rather than make Riddler a maniacal villain who wants to take over Gotham, he should be a personal foe to Batman. There should be a back-and-forth battle of wits between the two as they both try to outsmart each other. The film should be full of reversals and twists, keeping you guessing until the second the credits roll. Think the relationship between Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty in the BBC Sherlock TV series. That's how I'd like to see the Riddler done. More likely, they'd go for him being a grand scale villain, with death traps and plans of conquering Gotham, which I think would be all wrong - you might as well just go with the Joker again in that case. For once, I'd like to see a Batman movie where the stakes are much more intimate rather than based on world domination.

TheFantasticJoe 02-13-2013 12:55 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
ThePhantasm, I really like the idea of Firefly and Mr. Freeze in the same movie. The fire and ice motif works really well, and I'm surprised it hasn't been done more often.

Shpati 02-13-2013 02:11 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Johnny Depp as the Riddler, with Tim Burton as the director. :)

I'm being serious. No need to see an origin story. I'll be fine with Batman already being established.

SlamAdams 02-13-2013 02:13 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
I wouldnt mind more than one baddie. Nolan did it well. But they need to stay away from the "let's team up to take out the Bat" stories.

ThePhantasm 02-13-2013 02:25 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shpati (Post 25183413)
Johnny Depp as the Riddler, with Tim Burton as the director. :)

I'm being serious. No need to see an origin story. I'll be fine with Batman already being established.

I dislike the idea of Depp as any Batvillain, to be honest, because I can't really see it... and I feel like Depp has been devolving into self-parody lately.

But I have to admit I'd love another Burton batfilm. It won't happen, but I'd love to see it.

TheFantasticJoe 02-13-2013 02:42 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SlamAdams (Post 25183439)
I wouldnt mind more than one baddie. Nolan did it well. But they need to stay away from the "let's team up to take out the Bat" stories.

I agree, I'm kind of tired of comic book movies where the villains team up to take down the hero. For once, I'd like to see a movie with two or more villains that have completely different goals. Playing off on ThePhantasm's Mr. Freeze and Firefly idea, I think it would be natural if those two played on opposite sides rather than teaming up.

If I may use a strange example, has anyone here played the video game Jak 3? That game had two major villains, and both had the exact opposite goals - one wanted to harness light energy, the other wanted to harness dark energy. It's been years, but I remember it working very well, and I'd like to see comic book movies break out of the comfort zone and do something like that.

Shpati 02-13-2013 02:52 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SlamAdams (Post 25183439)
I wouldnt mind more than one baddie. Nolan did it well. But they need to stay away from the "let's team up to take out the Bat" stories.

I hate those ideas lol.

I was thinking having differerent gangster families with different goals having to deal with batman being in the way. Maybe penguin and black mask as different family leaders.

NosfeRomas 02-13-2013 03:42 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Tim Burton ? seriously ? after a badass trilogy of awesome batman (not perfect but sitill awesome) you want Tim Burton to direct it ? WHY ?

Tim Burton can only direct Tim Burton movies, it's the only thing he is good at. Giving him a Batman film sirca 2013 would permenantly kill the character movie wise.


If some studio dude came out like 2 months ago and said that Tim Burton is going to make the new batman film after nolan is gone you would kill that dude or ***** about it till you die.

Abudefduf 02-13-2013 03:43 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
I want to see the Joker again (not in the first movie though; save him for later). But this time he really needs to be a murderous a**hole, just like he is in the comics. I'm thinking Killing Joke/Death in the Family level of a**holery here.
I mean, I liked Nicholson's and Ledger's takes on the character as much as everyone else, but it was simply impossible to outright despise them. They were too cool and funny for that.

Also:
- Classic Harley Quinn.
- Firefly, because the guy is cool. Not as the main antagonist of course.

FeedOnATreeFrog 02-13-2013 04:59 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
I'd love a Riddler movie where you never actually get to see him. Make it all about Bats and the riddles and situations he encounters.

I think it'd be cool if the movie begins with the introduction of the Riddler conflict begins when Bruce is already low on sleep from a previous day of crime-fighting, and yet in his stubbornness he forces himself to continue. Make the movie ultimately about obsession, guilt and duty, trust in others.

By the end of the movie, nearly after 72 hours of no sleep Bats begins to start confuse reality (think Black Swan), making questionable decisions, etc. Perhaps others are skeptical whether the Riddler even exists or if the Riddler is Batman himself (as nobody has ever seen the Riddler, and the fact that Bruce is the only one who can ever solve these riddles). Maybe Bruce starts to wonder this is as well, being unable to remember where he was during certain hours, etc.

Perhaps Bruce just has to learn to let go at the end, sharing the weight on his shoulders and trusting others to be able to accomplish the task (perhaps with a partner, Robin/Nightwing) and be able to live with the fact that he's not 100% convinced that the Riddler who died at the end is actually the Riddler.

Perhaps the Riddler is revealed to be one of the minor characters (like Ramirez) who was supposedly on Bats's side throughout the movie.

TruerToTheCore 02-13-2013 07:06 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
It makes me happy that none of you will ever even remotely work or influence a Batman movie. :yay:

TheDevilIsMe 02-13-2013 07:20 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Am I the only one who can't imagine a series of Batman films without 'The Joker' in at least one film?

He's the arch-nemesis. It'd be like 'Lex Luthor' not appearing in a Superman trilogy.

The Guard 02-13-2013 07:25 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
I'd like to see Hugo Strange, The Penguin and The Riddler have a constant presence throughout any new franchise, and ditto Selina Kyle/Catwoman. I definitely want to see more of a focus on the idea of Gotham as a freak magnet, and the way the existing mob must contend with the new breed of criminal.

hellblazer103 02-13-2013 08:11 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe (Post 25185197)
Am I the only one who can't imagine a series of Batman films without 'The Joker' in at least one film?

He's the arch-nemesis. It'd be like 'Lex Luthor' not appearing in a Superman trilogy.

this.

http://l.wigflip.com/P511FHYz/roflbot.jpg

i also agree that the riddler and freeze are in need of a reboot, and i also agree with Guard on his points.

Drakepool 02-13-2013 08:15 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Not Joker.

FeedOnATreeFrog 02-13-2013 09:04 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
If they have Joker, I think they should introduce him briefly in the second last film. Have him locked up in Arkham already. They've already met, as Bats was the one who put him there.

Perhaps the premise of the movie can be about Batman trying to eradicate a complex, corrupt, mob-influenced justice system (Penguin and Black Mask as two seperate mob parties?) to ensure that the inmates of Blackgate and Arkham (such as the Joker) won't be let free.

Perhaps for the one Joker scene, Batman can actually seek advice/answers from him at Arkham (Silence of the Lambs style), even though his goal is to ensure that he never leaves. (I could see Joker finding that funny. He's willing to help Batman because he knows at the end of the day, Batman won't do what's necessary (to kill the person he needs to to bring an end to the mob influence), and that he'll still be set free)

By the end of the movie, Bats ultimately does fail, and thus Joker is free at the end. Then Joker is the villain for the last movie.

NewYorkSpider 02-13-2013 11:02 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
The Riddler or Penguin.

Rorschach2012 02-13-2013 11:55 PM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
We just had
BB
Ra's al Ghul
Scarecrow
Carmine Falcone
Mr. Zsasz
TDK
The Joker
Two-Face
Sal Maroni
TDKR
Catwoman
Bane
Talia al Ghul

In a new trilogy I want to see
First film
Mr. Freeze
Clayface
Penguin (mob boss arms dealer)
Joker in a Hannibal Lecter type role would be awesome, building him up as villain for 3rd, and you can introduce Harley Quinn that way.
Second Film
Hush
Killer Croc
Poison Ivy
Riddler
Third film
Joker & Harley
Hugo Strange
Ventriloquist and Scarface (cameo like Scarecrow in TDK)
Mad Hatter (cameo like Scarecrow)

johnrain 02-14-2013 12:12 AM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...C472Y7ElJN1qNA

BAT MITE!

BatLobsterRises 02-14-2013 12:15 AM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brain Damage (Post 25182745)
The thing I really hope this series does is start with The Joker already established. I've seen his first encounter with Batman done twice now, and to me, the most interesting aspect of their relationship has always been the longevity of it. They're like two dancers who have performed together time and time again with neither of them ever being able to end the dance. Joker should be there from the first movie in a Hannibal Lecter type supporting role and he should eventually get the spotlight in film 3 or 4. This would also be a fantastic opportunity to do a live action Harley Quinn.

Agree that Joker should be established this time around. Overall I'd like to see Arkham play more of a role. Which leads me to...

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Guard (Post 25185231)
I'd like to see Hugo Strange, The Penguin and The Riddler have a constant presence throughout any new franchise, and ditto Selina Kyle/Catwoman. I definitely want to see more of a focus on the idea of Gotham as a freak magnet, and the way the existing mob must contend with the new breed of criminal.

Beat me to it Guard. I'm particularly keen on seeing Hugo Strange have a growing, overarching role over the course of the new franchise. I would love to see him portrayed as someone who grows more and more obsessed with Batman as he treats each of the various freaks that Batman sends to Arkham. There's so many ways you could go with it...Monster Men, Prey, etc.

Overall I think Hugo is really overdue for his moment to shine. I thought Arkham City would be that, but he was a bit shortchanged there.

There's

Silvermoth 02-14-2013 03:01 AM

Re: Which villain(s) should the reboot start with?
 
Definetely the Riddler. He hasn't had a fair go yet. Plus I love the idea of testing Batman's detective abilities.


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