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Gianakin_ 02-14-2013 02:38 AM

The Force
 
Credit to Bim for the suggestion.

Discuss your views on what the Force is, how one may become a Jedi, how and if the lightsabers (and their crystals) are connected to it, etc etc.

James 02-14-2013 03:19 AM

Re: The Force
 
Good topic!

The first thing I'll address is midi-chlorians, mostly just to get it out the way. According to Wikipedia midi-chlorians are "...intelligent microscopic life forms..." that "...could allow their symbiont to detect the pervasive energy field known as The Force." If I'm understanding this explanation and the one given in The Phantom Menace correctly it basically means that if someone has a lot of these little bacteria (or whatever) then they can use the force. The more you have, the more powerful your potential. There's also a fan-theory kicking around that rather than midi-chlorians giving someone a connection to The Force, it is the midi-chlorians that are attracted to people who are already Force-sensitive. Personally, if we absolutely must have midi-chlorians in our Star Wars, I prefer the fan theory.

Without midi-chlorians I like The Force to be mostly a vague mystery. Something along the lines of 'The power of the universe' is good enough for me. Not unlike achieving a state of zen or nirvana in our world, becoming in-tune with The Force comes down to a person's state of mind, their own discipline and, hokey as it may sound, being 'one' with the universe. I'm not sure it ever needs to be anymore complicated than that.

In regards to the 'light' and 'dark' 'sides' of The Force I've always figured these were just labels given by the Jedi and Sith. In the Extended Universe, if I recall correctly, there are many other 'religions' that follow The Force, their perspectives of it different, but no less right or wrong than the Jedi. In short, it's not as black and white or definitive as the Jedi believe, that's simply their belief doctrine. Other Force-users that aren't Jedi or Sith follow different sets of rules where there is no 'light' or 'dark', some viewing the The Force much more simply and others perhaps far more complex.

So that's my basic take on it. I'm keen to see everyone else's!

Bim 02-14-2013 09:43 AM

Re: The Force
 
Well, my thoughts on the midichlorians has been that they're a tool or channel (my limited english wont allow me to find a better word right now lol) that the Force uses in order to comunicate with the individual, since according to Qui-Gon it does reside in all living cells:

Quote:

QUI-GON : Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all living cells and communicates with the Force.
ANAKIN : They live inside of me?
QUI-GON : In your cells. We are symbionts with the midi-chlorians.
ANAKIN : Symbionts?
QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the
midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the
Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force.
ANAKIN : They do??
QUI-GON : When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to
you.

Since everyone has cells, my take is that the higher your midichlorian count, the "easier" it is for you to connect and listen to the Force. Those with a lower midichlorian count still have access to the Force but it might take a bit more work for them to "listen" to what the Force says.

The Force to me is such an interesting topic. Light and dark are both parts of it. If the Force is in everything and everyone, it wouldnt be complete if it didnt have both light and dark (hope i'm writing clearly here, it's tough today for some reason haha). Tapping into it to use it for the greater good or for selfish reasons is the difference between the jedi and sith. But neither would exist without the Force.

Gianakin_ 02-15-2013 02:28 AM

Re: The Force
 
Exactly. I wouldn't mind seeing Jedi using Force Lightning, it shouldn't only be exclusive to Sith.

Bim 02-15-2013 09:47 AM

Re: The Force
 
Maybe using sith lightning requires tapping into darkness, or it could be a tricky emotion (or an aspect of the Force) to connect with and that's why they dont do it? It's probably due to what we've seen in the movies until now, but i just have difficulty in picturing a jedi using sith lightning. Seems like a very brutal way to control an opponent.

Gianakin_ 02-15-2013 09:54 AM

Re: The Force
 
You could use it to cook or jump-start a ship. I know Han would've benefit from it in ESB.:hehe:

Bim 02-15-2013 10:03 AM

Re: The Force
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gianakin_ (Post 25195355)
You could use it to cook or jump-start a ship. I know Han would've benefit from it in ESB.:hehe:

It would have fried the Falcon! It was already breaking down :oldrazz:

Gianakin_ 02-15-2013 10:07 AM

Re: The Force
 
Hey, she can fly and you know it!

But seriously, I like the NJO interpretation of the use of the Force, where it more or less depends on how you use it.

James 02-15-2013 12:21 PM

Re: The Force
 
I think Jedi can probably learn Force lightning, it's just kind of a cruel power. Most of the Jedi's standard Force techniques are fairly tame, push, lift, whatever. You take the enemy down hard and fast. Lightning is rather sadistic, it never kills instantly. Maybe someone like Kit Fisto could benefit from it though, using in the water if surrounded by enemies might be pretty handy.

DarthSkywalker 02-19-2013 08:46 AM

Re: The Force
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gianakin_ (Post 25195413)
Hey, she can fly and you know it!

But seriously, I like the NJO interpretation of the use of the Force, where it more or less depends on how you use it.

You mean the Jacen Solo interpretation? Not a big fan.

The reason Jedi don't go around using Force Lighting isn't necessarily because they can't. Sure, there are some who couldn't generate, like there are Jedi who aren't nearly as talented in telekinesis as Anakin is.

It is about what it takes to use it. It is opening yourself up to your anger and that is a slippery slope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by James (Post 25196357)
I think Jedi can probably learn Force lightning, it's just kind of a cruel power. Most of the Jedi's standard Force techniques are fairly tame, push, lift, whatever. You take the enemy down hard and fast. Lightning is rather sadistic, it never kills instantly. Maybe someone like Kit Fisto could benefit from it though, using in the water if surrounded by enemies might be pretty handy.

Palpatine can kill with it instantly. He just chooses not to. He likes to torture.

James 02-19-2013 12:13 PM

Re: The Force
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker (Post 25219205)
Y

Palpatine can kill with it instantly. He just chooses not to. He likes to torture.

Maybe so, but it's a more painful death than say, being sliced with a light sabre.

Jedi-Spirit 02-21-2013 08:53 AM

Re: The Force
 
If life creates the force...then the force hasn't always been...Meaning at some point when life began, the force would have been new, small...then as life grew, it grew...when the force was every where, it became easier for the living to tap into it...It's reasonable to consider the Jedi/force users, not existing until the force had spread wide enough through the galaxy for certain percentage of those to feel it & use...

So following that logic, the force continues to grow over time, eventually maybe all will be able to feel the force on some level, but that could take millions of years...

BenKenobi 03-23-2013 08:43 PM

Re: The Force
 
The force shouldn't have all of these rules, Star Wars is written as a fantasy in a sci-fi genre to contrast. The whole point of the original film was that the power of universe and raw human will was more powerful than the evil and basic necessities of machinery, like how Luke had to turn off his targeting computer to destroy the death star. The more they keep with the fantasy elements (kotor) and less with the sci-fi elements (a lot of EU crap), the better it seems to be received.

The force was conceived as a sort of hybrid of the core values shared universal between all major religions. It was cool because there was a whole universe at war, but everyone who got anywhere understood that the all important element was the force and how it was used. Han, Leia, Chewy, Boba Fett, Jabba, Tarkin, and most of the Empire all had their squabbles, but the Emperor and Vader put the force and those who followed it in the forefront of importance.

The thing that was cool about the force was that it was like the will of the universe it made sense, you could watch the movie and take it's teachings and apply it to your real everyday life to become a more productive person. It was about getting in-touch with nature, controlling your feelings, and trusting the strength within. Adding Midi-chlorians completely destroys this whole concept and it makes the Jedi and the Sith kind of like the X-Men. Even saying they make it easier to communicate with the force and show the potential one has, ruins the metaphor, just robs the saga of so much of it's magic.

On the note of magic and the nature of the force, the whole argument about Jedi being allowed to use force lightning is a good example of why I think people that are okay with the midichlorian system just never understood the force in the first place. It's not like a video game where you can use such and such power if you reach such and such level of Jedi or Sith, it's about being touch with your feelings and your very nature. See force lightning and that whole scenario goes back again to "the heroes journey" with the fire breathing dragon, the old hero in retirement, and the young nephew (or young ward) that calls him back to action. Palpatine served as the unbeatable dragon that only the hero (Anakin) had the power to beat and the ward in danger (Luke) called implored that his hero save the day one last time- usually resulting in the heroes death and reward in the afterlife (which it did). Palpatine was kind of like the Antichrist, pure evil incarnate, he could do insanely powerful things like force lightning (which remember was NOTHING like we saw Obi-Wan/Yoda/Luke/Vader do) because he was just so in touch with his inner wickedness, and took such pleasure in being pure evil. He was a feeble old man who appears helpless but because of his great dark nature he extremely dangerous, a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Yoda was used too to hammer in the point of the spiritual aspect of the force similarly to Palpatine, by making him too not what we would imagine. We are told of a great warrior, a Jedi master named Yoda, and he's revealed to us as probably the most pathetic thing ever. However he is so in-control of his emotions and has such a deep spiritual understanding of the world he is extremely powerful. The whole statement "size matters not" sums it up. The force isn't about physical power, it's about the mind, the soul, and the universe, one of the many reasons having Yoda and the Emperor wielding a lightsaber contradicted these principals.

Giving Yoda and Palpatine lightsabers or even putting so much importance on them (and their crystals and their connection to the force) takes away so much from the force itself. The way Palpatine casually held Lukes lightsaber in Jedi like it was a TV remote an referred to them as "Jedi Weapons" showed how lowly he regarded them. It seemed he was just above that sort of stuff like if he really needed to he could just use his evil nature and the force to kill or harm people. Yoda on the other hand was used to drill in the message it's not about physical power, which have a bludgeoning weapon is entirely about! The guy was always preaching about how wars don't make someone great, how Luke wouldn't need his weapons in the cave, and displayed he could life an entire ship at least 100 times his size of a the swamp with minimal effort showed he really shouldn't have needed one. He didn't believe in violence and if it came down to it he could defend himself because those were his principals.

As for the lightsabers and the force, it's pretty simple. The Jedi are space knights and they have space swords, other people don't use them for the same reasons our militaries today carry guns instead of long blades. One would need to be in touch with the force to effectively use it. Vader had a lightsaber because he was a falled Jedi, a black knight.

Anyway thats pretty much all I have to say on the issue.

Bim 04-03-2013 11:19 PM

Re: The Force
 
BTW guys, i've been re-reading the Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force book, and in the part where it lists the force-sensitives abilities, it says this about sith lightning:
Quote:

Force lightning causes excruciating pain as it weakens and individual's life, and is nearly impossible to deflect. Because of the power's obviously negative aspects, it's no wonder various Jedi Orders forbade its use. However, some jedi peacekeepers have refused to dismiss or suppress what they considered to be a natural asset to their arsenal of powers.
Then it goes to say how Plo Koon used it on some mission to Metellos, before he was appointed to the Council, in order to save a child who was taken hostage by the subject he was tracking. But he says he didnt embrace the darkside when he used it. Interesting that later in the book in the sith chapter, sith lightning is taught as a weapon to knowingly and deliberately cause great pain and eventually kill its victim.

Anyways, the book is a nice read if you can get your hands on it.

Arawn Fenn 08-08-2013 07:12 PM

Re: The Force
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James
In the Extended Universe, if I recall correctly, there are many other 'religions' that follow The Force, their perspectives of it different, but no less right or wrong than the Jedi.

Somewhere it is said that the Jedi view of the Force is the "correct" one. I think something to this effect is in the Power of the Jedi sourcebook, where it is said that the Potentium view is incorrect. In-universe, Rogue Planet appears to take the same position.


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