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blalex620 03-15-2013 07:31 PM

Fox's Shared Universe
 
If Fox is really trying to create a shared universe between X-Men and FF then the perfect storyline to bridge them together would be the sequel to Days of Future Past, Days of Future Present which deals with the FF and the X-Men. If they introduce Rachel Summers in Days of Future Past (which they really really should) it would set it up perfectly for this storyline down the road

Mr. Dent 03-15-2013 08:19 PM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
I think an Age of Apocalypse film could work as well. With the news of Blinky being in DOFP Apocalypse being a villain eventually seems very likely now.

blalex620 03-15-2013 08:46 PM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent (Post 25397445)
I think an Age of Apocalypse film could work as well. With the news of Blinky being in DOFP Apocalypse being a villain eventually seems very likely now.

I'm not well versed on Apocalypse how does he connect to FF?

Anno_Domini 03-15-2013 09:53 PM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
FOX should've gotten their act together with the very first X-Men film to create a shared universe.

DACrowe 03-15-2013 10:05 PM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Shared universe is overrated in regards to X-Men. Their universe is just as convoluted and dense as the rest of the MCU combined and the tethers between the two (besides shoehorning Wolverine into everything) are thin at best.

I am fine with the X-Verse being its own thing. But FF? They really belong in the MCU, as does Spidey for that matter. The Richards family and Xavier School can be connected, but I cannot think of many great reasons for them to team up. I think Fox would be wiser at better expanding the X-Men mythos into something as comparable to the MCU as opposed to just making main titles and Wolverine.

Just my thoughts.

cherokeesam 03-15-2013 10:06 PM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blalex620 (Post 25397607)
I'm not well versed on Apocalypse how does he connect to FF?

Via Kang the Conqueror; which might make the link a little tricky. ;)

Apocalypse is an ancient being, and was originally born in ancient Egypt as En Sabah Nur. Kang the Conqueror went back to that time period and became the Pharaoh Rama-Tut, and in that guise, he tutored En Sabah Nur and empowered him to become Apocalypse. Rama-Tut originally appeared as a very early FF villain; the link to Kang was added for the Avengers' franchise sake a few years later.

Mr. Dent 03-15-2013 11:24 PM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blalex620 (Post 25397607)
I'm not well versed on Apocalypse how does he connect to FF?

He doesn't connect directly but he's the type of big villain that can bring the X-Men and FF together. Sam summed up his background pretty well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DACrowe (Post 25398065)
Shared universe is overrated in regards to X-Men. Their universe is just as convoluted and dense as the rest of the MCU combined and the tethers between the two (besides shoehorning Wolverine into everything) are thin at best.

I am fine with the X-Verse being its own thing. But FF? They really belong in the MCU, as does Spidey for that matter. The Richards family and Xavier School can be connected, but I cannot think of many great reasons for them to team up. I think Fox would be wiser at better expanding the X-Men mythos into something as comparable to the MCU as opposed to just making main titles and Wolverine.

Just my thoughts.

I don't think this is the point of the thread.

Bruce Malone 03-16-2013 12:20 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
It seems the FF property would have more to gain from an X-Men connection than the X-men property would have.

It seems Fox is finally getting the X-Men franchise back on track why would they want to tag on what's perceived as a failed or underachieving franchise to it?

Is anyone out there i.e. General Audience, going man we really need to see the FF team up with the X-Men on screen?

blalex620 03-16-2013 01:06 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DACrowe (Post 25398065)
Shared universe is overrated in regards to X-Men. Their universe is just as convoluted and dense as the rest of the MCU combined and the tethers between the two (besides shoehorning Wolverine into everything) are thin at best.

I am fine with the X-Verse being its own thing. But FF? They really belong in the MCU, as does Spidey for that matter. The Richards family and Xavier School can be connected, but I cannot think of many great reasons for them to team up. I think Fox would be wiser at better expanding the X-Men mythos into something as comparable to the MCU as opposed to just making main titles and Wolverine.

Just my thoughts.

I wouldn't say it's overrated more like it's a business strategy that they see working for Marvel and they see WB toying with the idea so they want a piece of the action.

And you're right about them needing to expand the X-Verse. That could be part of their FMCU (Fox Marvel Cinematic Universe as I will call it now). Introducing more X-Verse characters outside the main ones is a good idea. New Mutants, X-Factor, Xcalibur etc. It could make for great storylines (Second Coming which I really want to see). They could definitely make their FMCU just as big as the original MCU. And as for Spidey he could go with Marvel or Fox. Seeing as he became apart of Future Foundation he now has a stake in both that's important.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherokeesam (Post 25398071)
Via Kang the Conqueror; which might make the link a little tricky. ;)

Apocalypse is an ancient being, and was originally born in ancient Egypt as En Sabah Nur. Kang the Conqueror went back to that time period and became the Pharaoh Rama-Tut, and in that guise, he tutored En Sabah Nur and empowered him to become Apocalypse. Rama-Tut originally appeared as a very early FF villain; the link to Kang was added for the Avengers' franchise sake a few years later.

Thanks for the history, they could certainly make this one of their shared movies.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent (Post 25398491)
I don't think this is the point of the thread.

Lol it really wasn't. I want to see this thread become the official Fox MCU thread if that's possible lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Malone (Post 25398787)
It seems the FF property would have more to gain from an X-Men connection than the X-men property would have.

It seems Fox is finally getting the X-Men franchise back on track why would they want to tag on what's perceived as a failed or underachieving franchise to it?

Is anyone out there i.e. General Audience, going man we really need to see the FF team up with the X-Men on screen?

FF definitely has more to gain by being connected to X-Men than the other way around. But as I stated before it is a business strategy simple as that.

No use continuing saying it's a pointless idea when Fox have already said they're going ahead with it. It's clear Matthew Vaughn is going to have a hand in it seeing as he has already or will be producing everything in the FMCU except The Wolverine but that's a special movie.

DACrowe 03-16-2013 01:17 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent (Post 25398491)
He doesn't connect directly but he's the type of big villain that can bring the X-Men and FF together. Sam summed up his background pretty well.


I don't think this is the point of the thread.

The thread is about finding an obtuse way to connect X-Men and FF in a shared adventure. Thus far, people are mentioning famous X-stories with small nods to the FF to set up Rachel Summers? My point is they do not really narratively have much of a reason to mix. It is, as others have said, Fox wants to cash in on the Avengers $$. If they want to do that, the best way is to expand the X-verse into its own thing that is as big as the MCU. Because in all honesty, nobody is clamoring for an X-Men/Fantastic Four team-up and the idea just seems forced. It may be a business strategy, but that does not make it a smart or automatically successful one. I think it is fair to point out the obvious.

blalex620 03-16-2013 01:24 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DACrowe (Post 25398987)
The thread is about finding an obtuse way to connect X-Men and FF in a shared adventure. Thus far, people are mentioning famous X-stories with small nods to the FF to set up Rachel Summers? My point is they do not really narratively have much of a reason to mix. It is, as others have said, Fox wants to cash in on the Avengers $$. If they want to do that, the best way is to expand the X-verse into its own thing that is as big as the MCU. Because in all honesty, nobody is clamoring for an X-Men/Fantastic Four team-up and the idea just seems forced. It may be a business strategy, but that does not make it a smart or automatically successful one. I think it is fair to point out the obvious.

Obtuse as it may be it still can be done. No one said every film that comes out of the FMCU has to connect FF and X-Men. I just brought up one story that just so happens to focus in equal parts on the X-Men and FF only and that story just so happens to be a direct sequel to a story they are about to do. As much as you may hate the idea it's been done in the comics and can be done in the films too. It's just a sidenote that this could introduce one of my favorite female X characters.

Thundercrack85 03-16-2013 01:30 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
I don't see it amount to much more than possibly a cameo. The Fantastic Four are dead as a film franchise.

def28 03-16-2013 01:39 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Until they successfully create enough crossovers films for The X-Men alone (teams,solos,events) that actually work and arent a jumbled mess they shouldnt even bother mixing them with FF.

They should do a Silver Surfer film and tie that in to FF before The Xmen and them meet. Granted they make them decent this time.

blalex620 03-16-2013 02:03 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 (Post 25399035)
I don't see it amount to much more than possibly a cameo. The Fantastic Four are dead as a film franchise.

The FF are being rebooted as a franchise in 2015..... how does that equate to dead in any sense?

Quote:

Originally Posted by def28 (Post 25399055)
Until they successfully create enough crossovers films for The X-Men alone (teams,solos,events) that actually work and arent a jumbled mess they shouldnt even bother mixing them with FF.

They should do a Silver Surfer film and tie that in to FF before The Xmen and them meet. Granted they make them decent this time.

This is just my idea of how they could connect them:
In the end credit/post credits scene of FF they could have Sue tell Reed she's pregnant. Then in FF2 she could have had Franklin finally introducing the character. Then in the end of FF2 they could have Xavier come to Reed and Sue and tell them that he's sensed that Franklin is perhaps an higher than Omega-level mutant thereby establishing those two film series being in the same universe without it being weird because Franklin is a mutant so it'll make sense to the audience that he's popped up on Xavier's radar given his power level (reminiscent of the scene from X3). Then if X-Men DoFP fixes the timeline and we get more present time movies they could introduce some more X-Verse characters. It could be around 2020 when they do a crossover X-Men/FF Days of Future Present movie. This gives them enough time to set up movies and characters for both series.

Thundercrack85 03-16-2013 02:10 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blalex620 (Post 25399097)
The FF are being rebooted as a franchise in 2015..... how does that equate to dead in any sense?

Dead in the sense that a corpse needs to be reanimated before it can be called anything other than a corpse. In other words, it's dead right now, and will stay that way until at least 2015, assuming a movie materializes.

Mr. Dent 03-16-2013 02:14 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 (Post 25399115)
Dead in the sense that a corpse needs to be reanimated before it can be called anything other than a corpse. In other words, it's dead right now, and will stay that way until at least 2015, assuming a movie materializes.

...the thread is going off the assumption this happens. We're talking about a future team up between the two film franchises, this obviously implies the movie comes out after the FF reboot.

blalex620 03-16-2013 02:34 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 (Post 25399115)
Dead in the sense that a corpse needs to be reanimated before it can be called anything other than a corpse. In other words, it's dead right now, and will stay that way until at least 2015, assuming a movie materializes.

Where do people continue to get baseless assumptions that this movie won't be made?? It has a director, script, producer, official release date. Where does any of that make it seem like this may not happen? Let's not add FF has to go into production soon or the rights will revert back to Marvel. So yeah I'm positive this movie will be made.

And like Dent keeps saying this thread is a speculation thread like all the other ones. It doesn't have to focus solely on a FF/X-Men team up film. It's open to anything dealing with Fox's MCU in general. Though speculating FF may not get a new movie is kind of dumb at this point.

cherokeesam 03-16-2013 07:38 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DACrowe (Post 25398987)
The thread is about finding an obtuse way to connect X-Men and FF in a shared adventure. Thus far, people are mentioning famous X-stories with small nods to the FF to set up Rachel Summers? My point is they do not really narratively have much of a reason to mix. It is, as others have said, Fox wants to cash in on the Avengers $$. If they want to do that, the best way is to expand the X-verse into its own thing that is as big as the MCU. Because in all honesty, nobody is clamoring for an X-Men/Fantastic Four team-up and the idea just seems forced. It may be a business strategy, but that does not make it a smart or automatically successful one. I think it is fair to point out the obvious.

I'm inclined to agree.
The X-Universe has always been its own thing, even in the comics. Especially since the 1990s, X-Men has spawned a ****-ton of titles that exist in their own mutant universe. Shlock like the recent AVX notwithstanding, the X-Universe rarely intrudes on the rest of the Marvel Universe, and vice versa. That's why having a separate studio manage the X-Men titles doesn't feel forced at all, and is actually canonical when you think about it.

But yeah, trying to carve out a niche in the X-Universe for the FF *does* feel forced. It's understandable why Fox wants to do it, but it's really apples and oranges. Tonally and thematically, the FF share a lot more with the MCU than with the FCU. Fox, and fandom, would be better served by expanding the X-Men universe by spinning off films like Cable and/or Deadpool, Excalibur, New Mutants, Generation X, X-Factor, X-Statix, The Brotherhood, Storm, Psylocke, Dazzler, Cloak and Dagger....pretty much an infinite bunch of stories to draw from.

chamber-music 03-16-2013 08:41 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cherokeesam (Post 25399553)
I'm inclined to agree.
The X-Universe has always been its own thing, even in the comics. Especially since the 1990s, X-Men has spawned a ****-ton of titles that exist in their own mutant universe. Shlock like the recent AVX notwithstanding, the X-Universe rarely intrudes on the rest of the Marvel Universe, and vice versa. That's why having a separate studio manage the X-Men titles doesn't feel forced at all, and is actually canonical when you think about it.

But yeah, trying to carve out a niche in the X-Universe for the FF *does* feel forced. It's understandable why Fox wants to do it, but it's really apples and oranges. Tonally and thematically, the FF share a lot more with the MCU than with the FCU. Fox, and fandom, would be better served by expanding the X-Men universe by spinning off films like Cable and/or Deadpool, Excalibur, New Mutants, Generation X, X-Factor, X-Statix, The Brotherhood, Storm, Psylocke, Dazzler, Cloak and Dagger....pretty much an infinite bunch of stories to draw from.

I agree.

You could link the X-Men and FF together but they don't have a huge amount of common ground with each other. If I was going to link them then I guess the cosmic X-Men stuff and the cosmic FF stuff would be the way to do it (Shi'ar, Kree, The Brood , The Phalanx). I don't think alot of people want to see wanting the space based X-men stuff though. The X-Men films have generally been slightly more grounded so far.

The X-Universe is like a universe in its self. There are so many characters, teams, storylines, multiple realites, ect in the X-Universe that you don't really need to link them together as there is so much depth.

metaphysician 03-16-2013 09:41 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blalex620 (Post 25399145)
Where do people continue to get baseless assumptions that this movie won't be made?? It has a director, script, producer, official release date.

Because its had most of those things at one time or the other in the past before, too. It still fizzled. Hell, Justice League: Mortal had all of that, a full cast, and filming to start, too; it was cancelled mere weeks before filming.

Zarex 03-16-2013 09:44 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blalex620 (Post 25399145)
Where do people continue to get baseless assumptions that this movie won't be made?? It has a director, script, producer, official release date. Where does any of that make it seem like this may not happen? Let's not add FF has to go into production soon or the rights will revert back to Marvel. So yeah I'm positive this movie will be made.

And like Dent keeps saying this thread is a speculation thread like all the other ones. It doesn't have to focus solely on a FF/X-Men team up film. It's open to anything dealing with Fox's MCU in general. Though speculating FF may not get a new movie is kind of dumb at this point.

There are some very solid reasons why reasonable people believe this FF reboot will either not get made or will fail miserably at the box office if FOX continues on this path. I posted a few of them on another thread.

I simply don't see how this film becomes a box office success. For the first FF films, Fox experienced a significant drop off (12.5% per Box Office Mojo) in worldwide box office with the sequel, despite a 30% budget increase. Add in the inevitable reboot decrease of 15% or so, the lack of merchandising revenue, and the outlook is looking grimmer. Then you add in the increased production costs of a CGI Thing, a Negative Zone, and simply to keep the reboot from being as cheap looking as the initial duology.

Then you add to this a release date just 56 days before the Avengers and the film is going to be buried in A2 hype. Only the most ardent fans are going to see two Marvel superhero team up films within two months, and a large number of those fans are upset the FF doesn't get to play with their pals in the MCU. You add to that toxic mix a very green, although talented director, and this has the makings of a disaster. Hopefully FOX realizes this soon and Disney/Marvel and FOX can reach a deal to reboot the FF in their rightful film universe.

Aztec 03-16-2013 10:41 AM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
So how is Fox supposed to have a shared universe when the guy in charge of said shared universe hasn't even spoken to anyone else involved? And one of the films is already in post production, with another in production. It's a joke!

Marvel 03-16-2013 12:11 PM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Days of Future Past is Singer pivoting and doing one grand finale for the original cast and handing off the franchise to the next generation in style. The Wolverine is basically going to be stand alone. So, why should they consult or connect anything at this point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherokeesam (Post 25399553)
I'm inclined to agree.
The X-Universe has always been its own thing, even in the comics. Especially since the 1990s, X-Men has spawned a ****-ton of titles that exist in their own mutant universe. Shlock like the recent AVX notwithstanding, the X-Universe rarely intrudes on the rest of the Marvel Universe, and vice versa. That's why having a separate studio manage the X-Men titles doesn't feel forced at all, and is actually canonical when you think about it.

But yeah, trying to carve out a niche in the X-Universe for the FF *does* feel forced. It's understandable why Fox wants to do it, but it's really apples and oranges. Tonally and thematically, the FF share a lot more with the MCU than with the FCU. Fox, and fandom, would be better served by expanding the X-Men universe by spinning off films like Cable and/or Deadpool, Excalibur, New Mutants, Generation X, X-Factor, X-Statix, The Brotherhood, Storm, Psylocke, Dazzler, Cloak and Dagger....pretty much an infinite bunch of stories to draw from.

Agree. A Fox Shared Universe has EVERYTHING in place to rival Marvel's success. Solo films with rich characters are everywhere in the X-Men Universe. As mentioned in the 90's in the books, it was X-Men on top with Spider-Man. The Avengers were relegated to b-list verge of cancellation books.


They need to flush perception of those other FF movies the way the WB flushed Batman & Robin. FF done right will turn on enough of the box office juice.


I can see Fox using their ace very fast and that's Galactus. He can be the global threat that brings the X-Men and FF together. It can also introduce the Shi'ar and Skrulls. If Guardians of the Galaxy hits, Fox will have the option of spinning X-Men off in to space.

blalex620 03-16-2013 04:56 PM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by metaphysician (Post 25399799)
Because its had most of those things at one time or the other in the past before, too. It still fizzled. Hell, Justice League: Mortal had all of that, a full cast, and filming to start, too; it was cancelled mere weeks before filming.

First, mentioning a planned JL movie doesn't help your point much seeing as WB has never been able to get that movie off the ground. Fox has made 2 FF films; WB and Fox two totally different studios. But off of that people keep forgetting that Fox HAS TO make this film now or the rights will soon revert back to Marvel. And as much as everyone wants, hopes, dreams that won't happen. Fox has already proven they want the FF franchise by not giving it back to Marvel when they asked for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarex (Post 25399813)
There are some very solid reasons why reasonable people believe this FF reboot will either not get made or will fail miserably at the box office if FOX continues on this path. I posted a few of them on another thread.

I simply don't see how this film becomes a box office success. For the first FF films, Fox experienced a significant drop off (12.5% per Box Office Mojo) in worldwide box office with the sequel, despite a 30% budget increase. Add in the inevitable reboot decrease of 15% or so, the lack of merchandising revenue, and the outlook is looking grimmer. Then you add in the increased production costs of a CGI Thing, a Negative Zone, and simply to keep the reboot from being as cheap looking as the initial duology.

Then you add to this a release date just 56 days before the Avengers and the film is going to be buried in A2 hype. Only the most ardent fans are going to see two Marvel superhero team up films within two months, and a large number of those fans are upset the FF doesn't get to play with their pals in the MCU. You add to that toxic mix a very green, although talented director, and this has the makings of a disaster. Hopefully FOX realizes this soon and Disney/Marvel and FOX can reach a deal to reboot the FF in their rightful film universe.

These people didn't say it would fail they said it probably won't happen at all which in my response see above ^^^.
And if this movie is good people will go see it not just fanboys. I guess I'm not as pessimistic as the rest about this film. With the right script and Matthew Vaughn helping out Josh Trank can turn this into an epic franchise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvel (Post 25400287)
Agree. A Fox Shared Universe has EVERYTHING in place to rival Marvel's success. Solo films with rich characters are everywhere in the X-Men Universe. As mentioned in the 90's in the books, it was X-Men on top with Spider-Man. The Avengers were relegated to b-list verge of cancellation books.


They need to flush perception of those other FF movies the way the WB flushed Batman & Robin. FF done right will turn on enough of the box office juice.


I can see Fox using their ace very fast and that's Galactus. He can be the global threat that brings the X-Men and FF together. It can also introduce the Shi'ar and Skrulls. If Guardians of the Galaxy hits, Fox will have the option of spinning X-Men off in to space.

I agree, Fox should definitely focus a lot of their attention on expanding the X-Verse first. Like I said before they should wait years before doing a FF/X-Men team-up film which I'll reiterate once again for the masses, it can be done as it's been done in the comics before. I never said it should be done every few years like Marvel is doing it just once could be enough. If they just want people to know the films are in the same universe a short cameo Fury in IM1 style scene is enough.

Aztec 03-18-2013 03:48 PM

Re: Fox's Shared Universe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvel (Post 25400287)
Days of Future Past is Singer pivoting and doing one grand finale for the original cast and handing off the franchise to the next generation in style. The Wolverine is basically going to be stand alone. So, why should they consult or connect anything at this point?

Ummm...because Millar stated many times that "The Wolverine" was "our Iron Man, our kicking off point" and now we know that he had nothing to do with that film, and it's set off in be distant future as a stand alone. On top of that Millar was promoting his role in DOFP as an important step in building a cohesive universe and now we know from Singer that Millar has never spoken to him; and that Singer wants nothing to do with him. That's a pretty significant reason to doubt the viability of Millar's role as Fox's MCU "godfather". Especially since neither Mangold, Singer, nor Trank seem willing or able to perform the role.

I just don't see why anyone would be so optimistic about this working at this point? Seems like a clusterf**** to me!


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