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-   -   The mob - make it more intimidating (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=455309)

BatmanGoesToRio 03-30-2013 06:11 PM

The mob - make it more intimidating
 
In "Begins" we were told how dangerous and powerful Carmine Falcone is. But it was never shown. Batman caught him at their first confrontation - that was all. Not intimidating at all like the powerful "Roman" in the comics.

The same with Sal Maroni in TDK. We never got the feeling that he runs Gotham's underworld.

So if they bring back the mob in the reboot - make it more powerful. Much more powerful. It's the mob and not a random street gang. It has run Gotham's underworld for decades. Maybe force the writers to watch movies like "The Godfather" trilogy or "The Untouchables".

The mob in the Nolanverse was a joke. No surprise that it was brought down by a single "Dent Act".

The Joker 03-30-2013 06:29 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
Well if you discount that Falcone was in Arkham, Joker killed Gambol and the Chechen, and Dent killed Maroni, yeah the remainders were taken out by the Dent Act.

BatmanGoesToRio 03-30-2013 06:41 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
In reality's mob there are always powerful remainders. In Italy they don't call it la familia for no reason. The mob is extremely powerful - world wide- and if they want to include it in the Batman reboot again they have to show its power. Or just leave it away. Nolan's mob was weak.

And I am just talking about the Italian mob. The Asian mob may be even stronger and more dangerous. So show that in the Batman movies or just focus on the "freaks".

godisawesome 03-30-2013 11:17 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
I think the best way to show Gotham's mob post Batman and Joker's first war would be to make it clear they have to make some exceptions in their rules about "freaks," but still have major rivalries and bias against the more colorful rogues. So a guy like Penguin can probably be portrayed as a trusted ally, Killer Croc and guys like KGBeast can be seen as dependable muscle, but otherwise the gangs hate masks.

Of course if they want to tie the Falcones to Catwoman, they could at least show Carmine Falcone with the scars and give him one of the disturbing "if I'm going down, I'm taking this city down with me" last stands.

Otherwise, their power and intimidation should always be a quieter and more sinister background presence. Batman should be shown helping the cops build a case and foiling their schemes when he finds them, but their organization should give them cover for the top dogs, the ones canny enough to survive in Gotham. But for sheer intimidation, I'd say the freaks should maintain the edge.

hellblazer103 03-30-2013 11:21 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
you know why batman took down the mob so easily ?


huh.... that's a good question. maybe it's because


OH YEA HE'S THE GODDAMN BATMAN

his real challenges are much bigger than mobsters. this man has tackled everything from lunatics to legitimate monsters (physically speaking as well as mentally ) to ****ing gods. your average tony Montana or vito corleone ain't got **** on that.


..... that being said...... yea, the mob was pretty weak in Nolan's films. :dry: lol

the only scene where they really seemed to matter was carmine falcone's first scene. and obviously that was because bruce wasn't even batman yet.

The Overlord 03-31-2013 12:32 AM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
The problem with the mob is, the freak villains are more fun and interesting, so they get more focus. What is more fun to what on screen, the Joker or Sal Maroni?

The only how to change that, is to have a freak villain as a crime boss, like Black Mask or Penguin, rather then some generic gangster.

Just_Human 03-31-2013 01:16 AM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
I think that after the big mob bosses of Gotham were taken out by Batsy/Joker/Dent, the potentiel replacements were afraid to take over because of Batman

Thought Crime 03-31-2013 01:19 AM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
The criminal element, specifically the mob, was portrayed poorly.

Anno_Domini 03-31-2013 01:13 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
I think the mob needs to be further explained more, but it fit with the idea of each film's theme. Falcone's mob tried to play on scare tactics and fear as was BB's theme and Maroni's turn as the head guy had his mob mostly portrayed as a money laundering mob, due to TDK being a more crime thriller before it became a hardcore superhero flick with Joker and Two-Face. But sadly, both ideas pushed the mobs in the back burner and were just there to move along the film, being easy targets for the actual villains of the films.

Uroboric Forms 04-01-2013 06:01 AM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
These are often tertiary antagonists in a superhero film we're talking about. As for Nolan's films, they were tightly packed enough as it, do you really want the films to spend more time establishing these characters?

Tacit Ronin 04-01-2013 08:41 AM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
I say they avoid conventional gangsters if they can help it. Especially if they are moving to a more fantastical tone.

Marvin 04-01-2013 09:32 AM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
Just another thing in this series that "wasn't as strong as in the books" but as far as the film audience goes, it was what it was.

Tacit Ronin 04-01-2013 11:10 AM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin (Post 25495813)
Just another thing in this series that "wasn't as strong as in the books" but as far as the film audience goes, it was what it was.

I was at least glad they weren't a total aesthetic ripoff of the Godfather mobsters as in the Long Halloween. I couldn't have taken the films seriously if that occurred. It's beyond me why Jeph Loeb took a perfectly non-ripoff Carmine Falcone from Year One and made him Vito Corleone.

Llama_Shepherd 04-01-2013 11:41 AM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
Merge it with the freaks. Use Penguin and Black Mask.

BatmanGoesToRio 04-02-2013 04:51 AM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
Maybe intimidating was the wrong term. What I wanted to say is: IF you show the mob make it more powerful. Because the mob IS powerful. And if you don't want to show a powerful mob just leave it away and focus on the "freaks".
But I agree that Black Mask and/or Penguin would be a good link between the traditional mob and the "freaks".

Frodo 04-02-2013 12:20 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
I thought the mob was done fine in the Nolan series. I frankly wouldn't want to see it done again. Focus on the freaks.

jonathancrane 04-02-2013 12:28 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
I hate to say it, I do not want the Mob to be the focus of the next installment(s). They were the focus of two films and that is more than enough for this period of time. Now, supervillain gangs (a la No Man's Land or Arkham City,) would be more interesting, as it would be intersection between the two types of villains that have been onscreen (Mobsters and supervillains.) Part of me wants to see a war between the Penguin and Black Mask.

Anno_Domini 04-02-2013 05:26 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Excelsior. (Post 25496295)
I was at least glad they weren't a total aesthetic ripoff of the Godfather mobsters as in the Long Halloween. I couldn't have taken the films seriously if that occurred. It's beyond me why Jeph Loeb took a perfectly non-ripoff Carmine Falcone from Year One and made him Vito Corleone.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ne_Falcone.jpg

:facepalm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd (Post 25496483)
Merge it with the freaks. Use Penguin and Black Mask.

Yes, yes, yes. I always wanted to see a gang war, but lead by those two. Penguin against Black Mask. It's a shame that Black Mask wasn't used the way he should be in Arkham City and instead we got Penguin's crew vs Two-Face's crew vs Joker's crew. Black Mask should have been involved.

Victarion 04-02-2013 06:09 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
If WB plots out a longer Batman series, say 7 films like Harry Potter, the Mob should get a stronger representation. They can use the Mob to transition the audience into more science fantasy villains like Freeze, Ivy, and Clayface while blending the Mob with more classic villains like Penguin, Black Mask, Riddler etc.

Also, consider that Bruce had been training with an elite group of ninjas for however long. Its not as if he was going against the mob with the sort of inexperience he had in Year One (comic).

Frodo 04-02-2013 10:01 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
I personally wouldn't want to see another Year One Frank Miller , Batman vs Mob style story again. We've had it done in B89, BB, TDK, BMOTP, and BY1. I could see a Black Mask or Penguin story as has been suggusted but using the Mob or a crime family as a main thread or focus again, really isn't all that appealing to me.

I think that a new francise should try strive for something new or tell the story from a different perspective instead of going back to the Frank Miller well again, or trying to rehash story points that have been covered before.

Victarion 04-04-2013 07:19 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
We didn't get Thomas Wayne's past affiliation with Falcone; I'd like to see that recycled for the mob element in the new series.

starwolf_oakley 04-04-2013 09:41 PM

Re: The mob - make it more intimidating
 
If the next Batman movie will establish that Batman has been around for a while, say the mobs in Gotham changed with the times. They started wearing themed, ultra-stylized clothed to be taken seriously. I'm not saying the Italian mobs start dressing in togas or gladiator costumes... or am I?


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