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-   -   Why the 1970's? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=456271)

Super Jim 04-17-2013 12:54 PM

Why the 1970's?
 
With BooBoo now in the cast I got thinking about his characters possible connection to the timeframe of the movie...

There are only a small handful of logical possibilities for BooBoo.

One of the Proudstars (and I can see them wanting to kill off a character - Thunderbird?), Sunspot (I hope not) and Forge...

Of these characters, Forge makes the most sense when you think about the 70's.

To me, the 1970's mean Vietnam and there are two characters that were there...

Wolverine and... Forge.

Since Forge lost his arm and leg in the war, what a great way to introduce his character.

Also, with Omar Sy being cast and the logical conclusion that he is Bishop, Forge makes even more sense since it is Forge who (in the cartoon) sends Bishop back.

There are 2 ways to do Forge...

1. Just have him in the future, though wouldn't you go with an older Forge?

2. Have him in both the past and the future. BooBoo would work very well for a young Forge, and with make-up could pull off an older version.

Again, why pick the 70's? Well, for the war. And if you have the war you have Forge...

What do you think?

Mulholland-Jr 04-17-2013 02:32 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Apparently Singer wants Nixon to play a role in the film.

psylockolussus 04-17-2013 08:36 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
I want Booboo to be Forge!

Super Jim 04-18-2013 09:15 AM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
I agree, he wants Nixon. But why?...

If you look at Nixon there are a couple of things that stand out.

One, of course, is how he opened China to the U.S. Could this be the plot point? Would they make Sunspot Chineese? I don't think so...

And then Vietnam, which banches into so much.

There is a new piece of information that has come out in the past few months which I think may just be the tie in, and yes, it's Vietnam related...

See, when Nixon was running against LBJ much of the debate was over Vietnam. It looked like LBJ was going to get the South Vietnamese to come to the table and allegedly Nixon personally tried to prevent it. There were these national wiretaps with this information.

LBJ ordered his security aid to remove the file with this information from the White House to prevent Nixon from getting to them (after Nixon won). Nixon knew about this file, which this Security Aid had named...

Wait for it...

THE "X" ENVELOPE!!!!!!!

Hmmmmmmmmm.......................................

Now everyone has heard of Watergate, right? Well, interestingly enough Watergate was (allegedly) not about getting photos of Democratic documents, but about trying to get this X Envelope!

SO, to me, the 70's is to tie in the Vietnam War to this X Envelope to Watergate...

Also, there are two main X characters who were in Vietnam.

One is Wolverine and the other... Forge.

Angamb 04-18-2013 09:24 AM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
since FC days, Bryan himself said they could do a trilogy with the sequels set in the 70's and 80's.

So this time jump seems to confirm that plan.

psylockolussus 04-18-2013 10:25 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
^I hope not and they will have to hire a bunch of actors again that the general audience aren't familiar with. So it is much better if they just move on with the original cast after DOFP.

marvelrobbins 04-18-2013 11:00 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
The fact they are bothering to correct things as Bryan Singer has said hints at them being done with past after DOFP.

psylockolussus 04-18-2013 11:04 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Yeah and if they really wanted to make more films set in the past, why bring back the original cast? They could easily make another film with just the cast of First Class and introduce the younger version of Storm, Cyclops and Jean Grey. But they didn't go with that and completely blindsided us with the return of the original cast. They know they aren't gonna earn more money with another First Class movie so they brought back the cast that really appealed to the general audience. I think after DOFP, they will be done with the past period and just move on to the future.

marvelrobbins 04-18-2013 11:24 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Plus Banshee,Havok,Moira,and all helfire characters are gone.If they were planning for a trilogy In first Class era you would think some of them would be In this film.There are more OT returnees than First CLass returnees.

X-Maniac 04-19-2013 07:22 AM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Yes, it would seem unlikely that we will get a movie in the 80s with Jean, Scott and Storm being recruited. It's a nice idea creatively but probably too much of a risk financially.

psylockolussus 04-19-2013 10:27 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
And it also doesn't flow very well if once again they go back to the previous period and show things that already happened in the past.

X1 to X3 = present
XOW to XFC = past
TW to XDFP = present
XFC2 = past again:wow:

I don't think the general audience will be excited if they go back to the past just to showcase the origins of the some of the X-Men.

Mrs Vimes 04-20-2013 06:40 AM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by psylockolussus (Post 25637975)
Yeah and if they really wanted to make more films set in the past, why bring back the original cast? They could easily make another film with just the cast of First Class and introduce the younger version of Storm, Cyclops and Jean Grey. But they didn't go with that and completely blindsided us with the return of the original cast.

Well, they also could have left First Class as a standalone film and just gone back to making films in the present with the original cast. But they didn't do that either.

Combining both casts in an epic cross-generation storyline makes it a much bigger film than either straight FC sequel or a sequel in the present with the original cast. Now it's unlikely that they can do this crossover twice so what they do next is a tad more murky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by psylockolussus (Post 25648007)
And it also doesn't flow very well if once again they go back to the previous period and show things that already happened in the past.

X1 to X3 = present
XOW to XFC = past
TW to XDFP = present
XFC2 = past again:wow:

DoFP is past as well as present (something that the above ignores completely), with the majority of the film taking place in the 70s if that interview with Singer is anything to go by.

Quote:

Singer: The majority of it...or that part of it, takes place in the early 70’s, 1973.
It will actually flow much worse IMO if then jumps to after X3 again.

psylockolussus 04-20-2013 08:42 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Vimes (Post 25649463)
Well, they also could have left First Class as a standalone film and just gone back to making films in the present with the original cast. But they didn't do that either.

Combining both casts in an epic cross-generation storyline makes it a much bigger film than either straight FC sequel or a sequel in the present with the original cast. Now it's unlikely that they can do this crossover twice so what they do next is a tad more murky.

DoFP is past as well as present (something that the above ignores completely), with the majority of the film taking place in the 70s if that interview with Singer is anything to go by.

It will actually flow much worse IMO if then jumps to after X3 again.

DOFP is also featuring the past but its because the present cast is going there. Its not like Origins and First Class that were merely showing events that already happened in this past. DOFP is rewriting the history of both timelines.

Its a different case compare to First Class and Origins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Vimes (Post 25649463)
It will actually flow much worse IMO if then jumps to after X3 again.

I don't think so. In my opinion, the altered future will be post X3 and post The Wolverine.

Super Jim 04-22-2013 04:27 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
But the real questions are...

#1. Will they use Vietnam?

The write-up for the movie talks about the X-team going back to stop a change to a major event from history.

If this is 1973 then we are talking either Vietnam or Watergate...

#2. Would they show Wolverine in the past?

Just as we saw with FC, Wolverine is a possible character. From Origins we know that he served in Vietnam, as did Forge. Wouldn't it be great to see Wolverine and Forge meet during the war?

#3. What about this X-Envelope idea of mine?

This is a real thing. I'm not making it up, and it's very recent news that could have very much affected Bryan's concept. My point is that if you are going to use Vietnam and/or Watergate (which is where this seems to be going) then why not use a real thing called the "X Envelope" in an X-men movie?

Super Jim 04-22-2013 04:32 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Just did a quick search on the X Envelope. Seems to fit more and more. Here is what one article had:

"On May 14, 1973, Walt W. Rostow, who had been national security adviser during some of the darkest days of the Vietnam War, typed a three-page “memorandum for the record” summarizing a secret file that his former boss, President Lyndon Johnson, had amassed on what may have been Richard Nixon’s dirtiest trick, the sabotaging of Vietnam peace talks to win the 1968 election."

Here is the website:

http://consortiumnews.com/2012/03/03...ixons-treason/

The main thing here is the year! 1973! Didn't someone else indicate that the year in the past for X-men DOFP will be 1973?

Super Jim 04-22-2013 04:35 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
I also just checked what was going on in 1973 as far as Vietnam. Here is what I found:

"The Paris Peace Accords of 1973, intended to establish peace in Vietnam and an end to the Vietnam War, ended direct U.S. military involvement and temporarily stopped the fighting between north and south. The governments of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam), the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam), and the United States, as well as the Provisional Revolutionary Government (PRG) that represented indigenous South Vietnamese revolutionaries signed the Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in Vietnam on January 27, 1973."

This seems like a perfect polt point for the movie!

psylockolussus 04-22-2013 08:53 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
I don't see them going to Vietnam and I heard the climax scene is going to take place in Washington D.C.

icekid 04-22-2013 09:44 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
I doubt they're going to use Vietnam as a centerpiece in this one. It'll just be a rehash of the Cold War plot in FC, they don't have to tie every major political conflict to the X-Men in order to make it grounded.

psylockolussus 04-22-2013 10:34 PM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by icekid (Post 25669863)
They don't have to tie every major political conflict to the X-Men in order to make it grounded.

Exactly. I'm happy that they aren't gonna use Kennedy's assassination in this movie.

Super Jim 04-23-2013 10:06 AM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
The more I think about it the more the Paris Peace Accord fits as the big historical event that will be a focal point of the 1973 portion of the movie...

The X Envelope is still interesting, since it's a real thing, and may be the plot device, but Paris seems like a better backdrop...

Same with all of the Watergate stuff, that actually happened in 1972, but a lot of the turmoil wrapped up in 73. But again, the Peace Accord seems better...

Still, since this is all about Vietnam, I could easily see the war being at least an early scene in the movie.

Now Wolverine, in the comic, did not serve in Vietnam since he was in Canada, but in Origins he did. I could easily see Bryan working this angle. You have the most popular X-character alive (and looking pretty much the same) in the 70's, and you have a new character (if BooBoo is indeed Forge) serving in Vietnam where he loses his arm and leg.

What an amazing scene that could be...

Just picture BooBoo as Forge in Vietnam in a battle where Wolverine is running around taking out the baddies. Would they have Forge use his Medicineman powers, as he did in the comics, raising the spirits of his fallen comrades to defeat the enemy? Would he have to call in an airstrike that causes him to lose an arm and a leg? Would Wolverine get caught in this airstrike, but lives because of his healing factor, which allows him to save Forge?

Then cut to a year or two later and Forge joining the 1973 X-men...

It just seems to coincidental that BooBoo fits the look of Forge, Forge is (in the cartoon) involved in DOFP, the events of 1973 were all about Vietnam (the Peace Accord, X Envelope, Watergate) and Forge was in the war...

psyonic 04-23-2013 11:03 AM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Oh yeah! Singer was scouting in Washington DC for DoFP .. I hope the climax takes place there

Super Jim 04-23-2013 11:33 AM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Alright, let's take a look at that angle...

So Singer was scouting DC...

If it was just going to be in the oval office he wouldn't need to scout the area. So what else is in D.C. and applies to 1973?

By the way, does anyone remember where specifically the year 1973 came from? I've been reading (and using) 1973, but not sure where this came from...

Anyway, Watergate seems very relevant here...

"The Watergate scandal was a political scandal that occurred in the United States in the 1970s as a result of the June 17, 1972 break-in at the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate office complex in Washington, D.C., and the Nixon administration's attempted cover-up of its involvement."

As perfect as the Watergate incident could be for the movie, it happened in 1972, making the question of where 1973 came from all the more important.

The "burglars" from Watergate were tried in January 1973, so this could be it...

In March of 73 the scandal really blew wide open when one of the burglars alleged perjury and pressure to remain silent. This led to Nixon having his aide tell the Attorney General that nobody in the White House had any knowledge of the break-in.

In April 13 Nixon was informed that a number of his people had been implicated, and some were cooperating with the investigation.

This all led to numerous White House "resignations" and a new Attorney General.

The new Attorney General appointed a special council to investigate Watergate, which ultimately led to Nixon's 1973 "I am not a crook" speach.

And couldn't you just see Nixon giving that speech in this movie, after the whole mutant caused Watergate scandal gets blown open?

In Singer wanted Nixon then Vietnam and Watergate just seem too perfect for the reason. I'm still holding out on my X Envelope comcept, but really, that was just the cause and affect for Watergate...

Does anyone know where specifically Singer was scouting in D.C.? Was it around the Democratic National Headquarters and/or Watergate?

Ledlunar 04-24-2013 12:40 AM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Jim (Post 25673847)
The more I think about it the more the Paris Peace Accord fits as the big historical event that will be a focal point of the 1973 portion of the movie...

The X Envelope is still interesting, since it's a real thing, and may be the plot device, but Paris seems like a better backdrop...

Same with all of the Watergate stuff, that actually happened in 1972, but a lot of the turmoil wrapped up in 73. But again, the Peace Accord seems better...

Still, since this is all about Vietnam, I could easily see the war being at least an early scene in the movie.

Now Wolverine, in the comic, did not serve in Vietnam since he was in Canada, but in Origins he did. I could easily see Bryan working this angle. You have the most popular X-character alive (and looking pretty much the same) in the 70's, and you have a new character (if BooBoo is indeed Forge) serving in Vietnam where he loses his arm and leg.

What an amazing scene that could be...

Just picture BooBoo as Forge in Vietnam in a battle where Wolverine is running around taking out the baddies. Would they have Forge use his Medicineman powers, as he did in the comics, raising the spirits of his fallen comrades to defeat the enemy? Would he have to call in an airstrike that causes him to lose an arm and a leg? Would Wolverine get caught in this airstrike, but lives because of his healing factor, which allows him to save Forge?

Then cut to a year or two later and Forge joining the 1973 X-men...

It just seems to coincidental that BooBoo fits the look of Forge, Forge is (in the cartoon) involved in DOFP, the events of 1973 were all about Vietnam (the Peace Accord, X Envelope, Watergate) and Forge was in the war...


Super Jim I think that sounds really cool, I hope they do have this actor as Forge that would be a great scene and this X envelope you speak of I have never heard of but that sounds too good a opportunity to pass up. Id like to see this movie if your hunch turns into something real, I also hope they somehow bring Cyclops back. he was under mind control for X2 & killed off screen in X3.... Id love it if they managed to bring Nightcrawler back but thats already been ruled out unfortunately

josh8 05-02-2013 05:18 AM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Seriously, Super Jim brought up some really fascinating ideas and all everyone could muster up was "I don't think the movie is going to be in Vietnam..."

Did you guys even read all his other points?

I don't think they're going to have any scenes actually in Vietnam (and that might actually be too much of a side story), but the idea of Nixon and the conspiracy theories sound like a perfect storyline. Mystique, the ultimate spy, is perfect for meddling with this kind of subterfuge.

Super Jim 05-06-2013 11:51 AM

Re: Why the 1970's?
 
Thanks josh8!

Not sure why no one else seems to be getting that Watergate is pretty much synonymous with Nixon...

Maybe Singer won't stretch the movie into including Vietnam footage (though I would still love to see Wolvie and Forge together like that), but we know the following:

1. Singer wanted Nixon in this movie.
2. The movie will take place in 1973.
3. He was scouting Washington D.C.
4. The main things happening in 1973 were the Paris Peace Accord and the investigation into the Watergate scandal.
5. Watergate was not about getting pictures of democratic committee documents and installing spy cameras, it was about getting a document titled "The X Envelope".
6. 1973 was when Nixon made his "I'm not a crook" speech.

This all seems relevant!


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